WEBVTT - Can we co-exist with monkeys that come into our homes? | EP 14

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<v Speaker 1>if you've ever been in close proximity to a monkey,

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<v Speaker 1>you know that they are not to be taken lightly

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<v Speaker 1>over the years. There have been many cases of the

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<v Speaker 1>common primates being running riot near us? You may have

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<v Speaker 1>seen viral videos of monkeys slipping into HDB homes and

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<v Speaker 1>making out like bandits for others of a secondary school

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<v Speaker 1>boy negotiating with monkeys to return his school bag.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm a golfer and close encounters with monkeys have

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<v Speaker 1>become part and parcel of the game personally have had

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<v Speaker 1>monkeys steal my food right out of my buggy while

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<v Speaker 1>I'm taking a shot and they'll grab anything they can find.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just glad they haven't taken my car keys or

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<v Speaker 1>my hand phone.

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<v Speaker 1>These are just some examples of increasing human wildlife encounters

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<v Speaker 1>in Singapore, while other parts of the world may struggle

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<v Speaker 1>with conflicts involving leopards, elephants and even lions. City dwellers

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<v Speaker 1>aren't used to living with wild animals, much less those

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<v Speaker 1>who willfully intrude into private spaces.

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<v Speaker 1>But the solution can be down to just get rid

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<v Speaker 1>of them. How can we learn to coexist with wildlife?

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<v Speaker 1>This is where Dr. Andy Yang, president of the Jane

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<v Speaker 1>Goodall Institute in Singapore comes in. She's a primatologist and

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<v Speaker 1>has been involved in the work for more than 10 years.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome Andy, thanks for joining us in the climate conversations.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to start with your childhood. Most kids want

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<v Speaker 1>a cat, a dog, a hamster as a pet. But

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<v Speaker 1>you had a pet monkey when you were 10 years old.

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<v Speaker 1>How did you end up with one and what was

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<v Speaker 1>it like

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<v Speaker 2>When I was 10 years old? Family relatives who were

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<v Speaker 2>sailors to Africa, they brought back this juvenile small monkey

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<v Speaker 2>brown colour, which is actually quite common in Africa. So

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<v Speaker 2>to us we just felt like it's a

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<v Speaker 2>more animal that needs to be taken care of. So

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<v Speaker 2>for a few years I would say I didn't see

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<v Speaker 2>anything wrong with that. Nobody told me it was wrong to.

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<v Speaker 2>I even brought my monkey down on my bicycle and

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<v Speaker 2>my neighbors would just be curious to say, oh, you

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<v Speaker 2>have a cute monkey. I guess when I was in

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<v Speaker 2>secondary school, just a couple of years later, a few

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<v Speaker 2>hours that I have at home before going home will

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<v Speaker 2>be playing with it. But then most of time it

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<v Speaker 2>would be alone. So you could see that it's walking

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<v Speaker 2>up and down within a small space that was confined

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<v Speaker 2>to

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<v Speaker 2>like how stress animals would be behaving. So that was

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<v Speaker 2>the first sign to me that it's not very happy.

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<v Speaker 2>And so it was after contacting a few organizations and

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<v Speaker 2>individuals that we managed to send it back to Africa

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<v Speaker 1>and had a name

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<v Speaker 2>A boy, not very creative, but for 10 years I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's the best I could do. I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>endearing. What would you say was the fondest memory with

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<v Speaker 1>a boy?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe the most memorable one would be that it would

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<v Speaker 2>like to sit next to me to groom my hair.

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<v Speaker 2>You know how monkeys, if you observe them in a

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<v Speaker 2>while they would pick apart the hair to take out

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<v Speaker 2>parasites or any particles. Right? So he was doing it

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<v Speaker 2>to me on my hair. I didn't know what it was.

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<v Speaker 2>So I just mimic their behavior their back to him.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I think from him, I learned a lot

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<v Speaker 2>about animal behavior too.

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<v Speaker 1>And our boy was the reason why you got into primatologist.

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<v Speaker 1>E I suppose your earliest in kind of with a

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<v Speaker 1>monkey must have taught you that there's something special, something

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<v Speaker 1>different about primates

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<v Speaker 2>because of the few years ahead with my pet monkey.

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<v Speaker 2>I also got to realize the threats that they're facing.

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<v Speaker 2>Why did I get this monkey all the way from africa.

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<v Speaker 2>It's kind of like an illegal wildlife trade.

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<v Speaker 2>So I got really interested to learn more about the

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<v Speaker 2>different varieties and species of monkeys and how I could

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<v Speaker 2>help them, which is by in university I enrolled into Biology.

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<v Speaker 1>So you became an expert who does research and monkeys

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<v Speaker 1>and your work

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<v Speaker 1>work on primates have taken you all across asia. How

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<v Speaker 1>many kinds have you come up close and personal with.

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<v Speaker 2>There are about 600 species of primates in the world,

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<v Speaker 2>but I've only seen about 45, not even 10%, but

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying my best.

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<v Speaker 2>So a few examples of this within ASia outside Singapore,

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<v Speaker 2>in japan, the japanese macaques in san the background the

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<v Speaker 2>snow was amazing and then also in Indonesia, the Gibbons,

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<v Speaker 2>they're calling early in the morning and imagine you're sitting

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<v Speaker 2>in this house watching the forest, sipping coffee, listening to

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<v Speaker 2>the given cause it's really quite amazing the rainforest experience.

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<v Speaker 1>So you work revolves around raffles, banded langurs which are

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<v Speaker 1>critically endangered primates. How many of them are here in Singapore?

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<v Speaker 2>In Singapore, we have 70, so 70 and in Malaysia

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<v Speaker 2>we have about 200-300,

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<v Speaker 2>Nowhere else in the world, just in Singapore and Malaysia.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're talking about a global population size of maybe

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<v Speaker 2>just under 400 to 400.

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<v Speaker 1>I hear they're extremely shy. They're very fast here that

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<v Speaker 1>you had a bit of a shoulder injury trying to

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<v Speaker 1>track them down. Can you tell me what happened? I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not meant to be a monkey, but I tried very

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<v Speaker 2>hard to be. So

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<v Speaker 2>besides the fewer where you go to the jungle, you

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<v Speaker 2>track to look for the animals. We want to come

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<v Speaker 2>up with methods in order to collect information more efficiently.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we started to climb trees to put motion

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<v Speaker 2>sensor cameras on the trees in order to detect animal presence.

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<v Speaker 2>But that would involve of course being professionally trained certified,

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<v Speaker 2>getting permission from National Park support

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<v Speaker 2>and then during the actual climbing, it requires a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of strength and I'm scared of heights, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>problems and

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<v Speaker 1>your work depends heavily on collecting fecal samples that sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like

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<v Speaker 2>fun. If I were to tell my parents that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>actually collecting poop for my work. I'm not sure what

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<v Speaker 2>they would think.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So another way to collect more information is through

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<v Speaker 2>their fecal samples because in feces it actually contains a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of information. It has the D. N. A. Of

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<v Speaker 2>the animal which can tell us a lot more about

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<v Speaker 2>the genetics, whether it's healthy or not. What's the relationship

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<v Speaker 2>with the other individual monkeys in the population? Are they

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<v Speaker 2>experiencing any inbreeding problems in the feces? It also contains

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<v Speaker 2>the D. N. A. Of

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<v Speaker 2>the plants that they have consumed. So by examining the

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<v Speaker 2>plant DNA, we can also obtain information on the species

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<v Speaker 2>of plants they have eaten for the past two days

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<v Speaker 2>compared to checking the forest, observing them through binoculars and

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<v Speaker 2>camera maybe there's one species of plants that they were eating.

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<v Speaker 2>We have to collect the specimens get identified takes a

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<v Speaker 2>long time. That's

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating. And the primate environments that are affected by climate change,

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<v Speaker 1>as you said, are

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<v Speaker 1>hundreds of primate species around the world. But then three

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<v Speaker 1>quarters of them are actually facing population declines. Which is

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<v Speaker 1>really sad. How concerned are you that the effects of

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<v Speaker 1>climate change are pushing many of them towards extinction

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<v Speaker 2>on top of climate change. There's also of course the

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<v Speaker 2>associated activities like the divorce station that's really clearing the forest,

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<v Speaker 2>forcing them to lose their homes and poached from the

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<v Speaker 2>wild for the trade. For example, of course, then you

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<v Speaker 2>have the climate change that would come in because with

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<v Speaker 2>the changing temperatures and conditions, different plant species will be

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<v Speaker 2>affected as well. So they're losing their food source, losing

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<v Speaker 2>their home severely affecting their population size with changing temperatures.

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<v Speaker 2>The animals in areas where they have extreme drought condition

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<v Speaker 2>or hot temperatures, the streams might be drying up, they

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<v Speaker 2>might not be rain. And so in that case finding

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<v Speaker 2>water is of essence for those animals.

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<v Speaker 1>So your main research is geared towards the protection of primates,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're also invested in the question, how can we

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<v Speaker 1>humans coexist peacefully with nature and wildlife? And the friction

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<v Speaker 1>between man and nature has been inevitable like otters eating

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<v Speaker 1>up very expensive fish or wild boar attacking a passer

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<v Speaker 1>by or monkey stealing food and

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<v Speaker 1>try to enter our homes. Why are we seeing some

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<v Speaker 1>of these incidences? Should we be concerned?

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<v Speaker 2>I think there could be various factors during covid when

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<v Speaker 2>people are not allowed to maybe go outdoors to certain areas,

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<v Speaker 2>they can't go overseas as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And then there is the easing of the restrictions, you

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<v Speaker 2>could go out to nature areas. And so that's when

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<v Speaker 2>people started to maybe see more of this wildlife that

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<v Speaker 2>they previously might not have encountered. Then they realized that hey,

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<v Speaker 2>we have this wildlife and then also with social media, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Taking photos and putting online the drones, flying to take

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<v Speaker 2>images and to record the biodiverse in Singapore. And then

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<v Speaker 2>also with Singapore's aim to transform from a garden city

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<v Speaker 2>to a city in nature. That also means that we

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<v Speaker 2>want to integrate more of nature into our lives into

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<v Speaker 2>our surroundings. And so with that, it also means that

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<v Speaker 2>there will be more chances to encounter animals. But if

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<v Speaker 2>we are not equipped with the knowledge to know how

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<v Speaker 2>to interact or not interact with wildlife, that's when we

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<v Speaker 2>might inevitably or accidentally attract them into urban areas or

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<v Speaker 2>our homes. That's when news articles might say monkey attack,

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<v Speaker 2>pick attack after attack,

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<v Speaker 2>But news articles usually would be reporting incidents or accidents, right?

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<v Speaker 2>If it's a monkey that is doing its own monkey business,

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<v Speaker 2>playing with their own family members or authors eating fish

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<v Speaker 2>in the river, it might not come up as the news.

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<v Speaker 2>So 99% of the time when you read about the

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<v Speaker 2>news behaviors that are quite negative only happen.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe less than 5% actually underground

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<v Speaker 1>Because of those 5% not so pleasant encounters and traumatic

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<v Speaker 1>experiences that some people have had when they come into

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<v Speaker 1>contact with animals, that's why people maybe tend to stay

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<v Speaker 1>away to avoid them or because out of fear or

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<v Speaker 1>maybe because they just want to give them space. What's

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<v Speaker 1>the most common misconceptions people have,

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<v Speaker 2>if it's got to do with the monkeys in Singapore,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the misconceptions would be that the monkeys don't

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<v Speaker 2>have enough food in the forest, which is why they're

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<v Speaker 2>coming to my home to get food. The monkeys have

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<v Speaker 2>sufficient food in the forest and the food that they

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<v Speaker 2>eat would be plants. They could also take in small

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<v Speaker 2>animals like desserts, bird eggs for example, but because the

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<v Speaker 2>food that humans eat full of high calories and

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<v Speaker 2>energy content, that if they were to take those food items,

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<v Speaker 2>they would get their calorie intake for the day with

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<v Speaker 2>just a short amount of time. So if we were

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<v Speaker 2>to leave food out there unattended or trash bins that

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<v Speaker 2>are not closed properly, then the animals would stay and

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<v Speaker 2>get those

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<v Speaker 1>food other than those misconceptions, then what do you see

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<v Speaker 1>as the biggest barrier to encourage more people to coexist

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<v Speaker 1>with nature and animals?

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<v Speaker 2>We want to be close to nature, whether it's the

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<v Speaker 2>clean air or just the calming effect of nature, but

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<v Speaker 2>people might not understand that nature contains different aspects, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not just the beautiful butterflies or the chopping birds,

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<v Speaker 2>that sounds really pleasant into your years, but there could

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<v Speaker 2>be wild chickens, there, there could be crows, wild pigs

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<v Speaker 2>and snakes as well. So some people might be selective

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<v Speaker 2>about the kind of nature that they want, but if

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<v Speaker 2>we are selective then ecosystem will not be intact and thrive,

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<v Speaker 1>let's say

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<v Speaker 1>we have an encounter with a monkey either in the

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<v Speaker 1>park or comes through the window or something like that,

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<v Speaker 1>what should or shouldn't we do

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<v Speaker 2>firstly if say we are out in the nature areas

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<v Speaker 2>and you see monkeys most of the time they won't

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<v Speaker 2>be bothering you if you don't bother them. So if

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<v Speaker 2>you keep a safe distance you walk away, continue on

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<v Speaker 2>your path will be fine. But if the monkeys are

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<v Speaker 2>in your path you have to see whether there's another

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<v Speaker 2>route that you can take all the money to wait

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<v Speaker 2>for them to disperse. But

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<v Speaker 2>if you're in a rush, what you can do is

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<v Speaker 2>to make some sounds to show them that you are

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<v Speaker 2>there to alert them so that you're not actually surprising them.

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<v Speaker 2>When you're walking close, you can clap your hands just

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<v Speaker 2>in the motion that it's more consistent just to announce

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<v Speaker 2>your presence. I'm here, you clap and also you need

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<v Speaker 2>to watch where the babies are because when they're infants

0:13:11.190 --> 0:13:13.740
<v Speaker 2>of course the adults will be more protective. So you

0:13:13.740 --> 0:13:16.420
<v Speaker 2>can always try to think in terms of the monkey's

0:13:16.420 --> 0:13:16.550
<v Speaker 2>paw

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.960
<v Speaker 2>point of view, just like humans, you have your babys

0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.610
<v Speaker 2>or your little ones, you want to be protective of them.

0:13:21.620 --> 0:13:24.450
<v Speaker 2>So be aware of where the little ones are and

0:13:24.450 --> 0:13:28.189
<v Speaker 2>don't walk too close to them when you clap usually

0:13:28.190 --> 0:13:30.890
<v Speaker 2>dispersed from you and just to make sure you don't

0:13:30.890 --> 0:13:33.900
<v Speaker 2>bring any plastic bags or 100 plus coke, you know,

0:13:33.910 --> 0:13:36.340
<v Speaker 2>walking in the jungle keep in your bag and once

0:13:36.340 --> 0:13:38.790
<v Speaker 2>you're away from the animals, then you can maybe take,

0:13:39.030 --> 0:13:42.760
<v Speaker 1>take your item that's very meaningful to you car keys

0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:44.070
<v Speaker 1>or handphone.

0:13:44.330 --> 0:13:47.310
<v Speaker 1>Do you chase after them? Do you wait for them

0:13:47.309 --> 0:13:49.240
<v Speaker 1>to return it to you? Is there a way

0:13:49.970 --> 0:13:53.089
<v Speaker 2>in general? If you take your food items, you can

0:13:53.090 --> 0:13:55.589
<v Speaker 2>forget about it just by another. I don't need to

0:13:55.590 --> 0:13:56.650
<v Speaker 2>take it back. Even if you take it back, I

0:13:56.650 --> 0:13:59.429
<v Speaker 2>don't want to consume anyway. If it's non food related,

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.340
<v Speaker 2>like your car keys, phone or your wallet, they might

0:14:02.340 --> 0:14:03.910
<v Speaker 2>take it and bring it up to a tree,

0:14:04.540 --> 0:14:06.440
<v Speaker 2>wait for them to drop

0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:07.560
<v Speaker 1>the items. They

0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.630
<v Speaker 2>might be doing a bit of your wallet but they

0:14:09.630 --> 0:14:11.770
<v Speaker 2>won't be eating it. So once you know that it's

0:14:11.770 --> 0:14:14.620
<v Speaker 2>not for items they would drop. So just wait patiently.

0:14:14.630 --> 0:14:16.520
<v Speaker 2>They would know that it's not food, but you might

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.230
<v Speaker 2>have to just buy a new Orleans eventually wants to

0:14:19.230 --> 0:14:20.580
<v Speaker 2>get back to your own.

0:14:20.850 --> 0:14:24.570
<v Speaker 1>Those are great tips. What other efforts can we make

0:14:24.570 --> 0:14:29.600
<v Speaker 1>in preserving wildlife, protecting endangered animals because personally I thought

0:14:29.610 --> 0:14:33.390
<v Speaker 1>the ecological bridge that helps animals safely get from one

0:14:33.390 --> 0:14:36.060
<v Speaker 1>place to another. I thought that was a brilliant idea.

0:14:36.070 --> 0:14:36.220
<v Speaker 1>I

0:14:36.220 --> 0:14:38.790
<v Speaker 2>think the example you gave like the equal link is

0:14:38.790 --> 0:14:40.800
<v Speaker 2>a good way to connect

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:45.000
<v Speaker 2>forests that have been separated or fragmented. But before we

0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.560
<v Speaker 2>get there to build a bridge to reconnect, it would

0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:51.230
<v Speaker 2>be good if we can retain existing forests already to

0:14:51.230 --> 0:14:54.750
<v Speaker 2>prevent cutting through forests and then you have to come

0:14:54.750 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 2>in to build something to reconnect of course in Singapore

0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:00.700
<v Speaker 2>in such a small area where we have to continue

0:15:00.700 --> 0:15:01.479
<v Speaker 2>to develop,

0:15:01.620 --> 0:15:05.040
<v Speaker 2>we can't stop clearing forests but we can do it

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 2>in a more, I would say structured way that has

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.990
<v Speaker 2>more plans mitigations in it such that we can minimize

0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.830
<v Speaker 2>impacts to wildlife and environment as much as possible. So

0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.500
<v Speaker 2>having a good understanding of what's out there doing research

0:15:19.500 --> 0:15:22.600
<v Speaker 2>before the development. There are also other things that individuals

0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:24.140
<v Speaker 2>can do. For example when you're

0:15:24.150 --> 0:15:27.650
<v Speaker 2>driving near nature areas, if you can just drive slowly,

0:15:27.660 --> 0:15:32.620
<v Speaker 2>be more aware because those animals would be running onto

0:15:32.620 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 2>the road sometimes in order to get to another forest

0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.560
<v Speaker 2>patch or you can also spend time to volunteer with

0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.220
<v Speaker 2>organizations to go out there to collect information to provide

0:15:41.220 --> 0:15:44.430
<v Speaker 2>to national agencies in order to use those information to

0:15:44.430 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 2>protect species.

0:15:46.650 --> 0:15:50.690
<v Speaker 1>And then how do you then envision the future of

0:15:50.700 --> 0:15:52.790
<v Speaker 1>monkeys in Singapore?

0:15:53.270 --> 0:15:57.270
<v Speaker 2>I'm hoping that when I talk to people, when people

0:15:57.270 --> 0:16:01.080
<v Speaker 2>talk to me about monkeys, the adjectives that they use

0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:06.680
<v Speaker 2>will not always be naughty, mischievous, cheeky and aggressive, but

0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.660
<v Speaker 2>coming more from the point of view of appreciating our

0:16:09.660 --> 0:16:13.710
<v Speaker 2>native biodiversity, it could be that they're cute. I'm biased,

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.950
<v Speaker 2>they could be interesting, they can be really playful, they

0:16:16.950 --> 0:16:19.340
<v Speaker 2>can be peaceful. So rather than

0:16:19.365 --> 0:16:21.615
<v Speaker 2>all the negative terms, it would be good if you

0:16:21.615 --> 0:16:24.395
<v Speaker 2>could see the other side of the animals as well.

0:16:24.395 --> 0:16:27.385
<v Speaker 2>So I'm just hoping that not just for monkeys but

0:16:27.385 --> 0:16:32.215
<v Speaker 2>for native wildlife in Singapore, that might not be typically charismatic.

0:16:32.225 --> 0:16:35.195
<v Speaker 2>They could get a fair share of love from singaporeans

0:16:35.195 --> 0:16:35.725
<v Speaker 2>as well.

0:16:35.735 --> 0:16:37.875
<v Speaker 1>Andy thank you so much. It's been a pleasure talking

0:16:37.875 --> 0:16:39.165
<v Speaker 1>to you. Thank you.

0:16:40.690 --> 0:16:43.350
<v Speaker 1>Well thanks to my guest Andy Yang and thanks to

0:16:43.350 --> 0:16:45.700
<v Speaker 1>all of you for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed

0:16:45.700 --> 0:16:49.630
<v Speaker 1>this episode, but do remember to subscribe and like this podcast.

0:16:49.650 --> 0:16:52.430
<v Speaker 1>So you know when a new episode drops, you can

0:16:52.430 --> 0:16:57.760
<v Speaker 1>find Ciena's climate and sustainability coverage online at sienna dot asia.

0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.550
<v Speaker 1>The team behind this podcast is Joanne, chan, Jacqueline chan

0:17:01.690 --> 0:17:06.100
<v Speaker 1>Danieli and Christina robert and I'm julie you signing off.