WEBVTT - Spot the red flags in job listings 0:00:03.150 --> 0:00:05.340 You're listening to a CNA podcast. 0:00:11.478 --> 0:00:15.710 Hi there. It's the Work It podcast with Tiffany and Gerald. Now, recently, 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:18.279 I was trolling through Reddit and I was having a 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:22.840 good laugh, reading about some insane job postings. OK, so 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.870 for example, there was one looking for a virtual assistant 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.799 but only pays $1000 a month and the caveat is 0:00:29.799 --> 0:00:32.599 that you're not allowed to have a side job, which 0:00:32.598 --> 0:00:36.080 distracts you from giving this role your 100%. And then 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:38.080 there's the issue of fake job list. 0:00:38.959 --> 0:00:41.880 Have you heard about that, Gerald? Fake job listings. I'm 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.790 not talking about a scam kind, right? Yeah, yeah. So 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.990 what I was them as maybe insincere job postings. They're posted, 0:00:49.119 --> 0:00:51.360 they're listed on job portals by the employers are not 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.439 really genuine about hiring. So sometimes they could be like 0:00:54.439 --> 0:00:57.909 ictitious jobs posted by recruiters just to build a candidate pool, 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.880 or sometimes they're doing market research on salaries. They could be, 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.680 you know, companies checking out the market for talent before 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:05.080 they decide to relocate here. 0:01:05.569 --> 0:01:07.889 Of, of course, we also know that some companies, they 0:01:07.889 --> 0:01:11.139 just post the job ads for the sake of posting. Yeah, 0:01:11.370 --> 0:01:14.239 because they already pre-identified somebody already and they're letting the 0:01:14.410 --> 0:01:16.290 posting go up there. So in fact, I think a 0:01:16.290 --> 0:01:19.160 survey by resume builder, there's a career site, they said 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.769 as many as 4 in 10 companies said that. 0:01:22.029 --> 0:01:24.480 a fake job listing. This is something that I'm sure 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.209 a lot of our listeners out there would be very 0:01:26.209 --> 0:01:29.149 keen to know how do we differentiate between a job 0:01:29.150 --> 0:01:32.190 posting that is sincere and one that is just there 0:01:32.190 --> 0:01:35.349 to collect resumes or collect information. So what are some 0:01:35.349 --> 0:01:37.069 red flags that we can look up for when we 0:01:37.069 --> 0:01:38.129 read job descriptions. 0:01:38.699 --> 0:01:40.488 So we are very happy to have in the studio 0:01:40.489 --> 0:01:43.809 with us Han Lee, he is director of executive search 0:01:43.809 --> 0:01:47.569 from Lio Resources, and he's here to give us some tips. Welcome. Hi, 0:01:47.690 --> 0:01:48.519 good morning, everyone. 0:01:48.730 --> 0:01:51.519 So Han, I want to ask you, have you encountered 0:01:51.519 --> 0:01:54.489 any of these kind of absurd job listings before in 0:01:54.489 --> 0:01:55.360 your line of work? 0:01:55.610 --> 0:01:57.839 Of course, I've seen it many times actually. I mean, 0:01:58.010 --> 0:02:00.529 our job of online is really read the job description 0:02:00.529 --> 0:02:02.769 from a clients or so and sometimes you have to 0:02:04.089 --> 0:02:06.339 Really stop yourself from having a laugh, you know, like 0:02:06.339 --> 0:02:08.779 I wrote about the poster a few weeks ago, talk about. 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.000 When I see the job description, I was asking myself, right, 0:02:12.059 --> 0:02:14.119 is this for real? How am I going to find 0:02:14.119 --> 0:02:16.199 someone for these clients when you look at the job 0:02:16.199 --> 0:02:18.720 description like that. So it's not so much of a scammer. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.050 I think a lot of time it's a wish list 0:02:21.050 --> 0:02:24.440 they want to have for this perfect candidate and I 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.199 think underneath they also know that it's probably not going 0:02:27.199 --> 0:02:30.559 to happen, but it's more like trying to cast a 0:02:30.559 --> 0:02:33.729 wider net, attracting more people to apply for the job, 0:02:33.758 --> 0:02:37.119 but I think most of the time it's probably counter 0:02:37.119 --> 0:02:37.940 effective because 0:02:38.419 --> 0:02:40.799 The great candidates might be looking at a job description 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.029 thinking that hey, I only take like 70% of the boxes, 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.758 but I don't want to fail myself for a job, right? 0:02:46.809 --> 0:02:48.478 So I don't apply because I don't have the rest 0:02:48.479 --> 0:02:51.919 of the 30%. But the reality is that 30% can 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.839 be just a good to have. But in job description, 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:56.839 you don't really list it in the way that this 0:02:56.839 --> 0:02:58.559 is the one I must have, this is the one 0:02:58.559 --> 0:03:00.440 I'm really just OK. 0:03:00.574 --> 0:03:03.005 To not have, right? So that's becoming a problem for 0:03:03.005 --> 0:03:04.244 the job description. Yeah, 0:03:04.365 --> 0:03:04.445 yeah, 0:03:04.565 --> 0:03:06.524 I agree, nobody puts up a section that says this 0:03:06.524 --> 0:03:09.464 is a must have and then the nice to have. 0:03:10.163 --> 0:03:12.524 Sometimes I think to myself, there's no way I'm going 0:03:12.524 --> 0:03:15.804 to be able to hit maybe even 50% of what 0:03:15.804 --> 0:03:17.625 they are asking for because they always like I want 0:03:17.625 --> 0:03:21.684 an individual who is a creative, who takes initiative, but 0:03:21.684 --> 0:03:22.704 at the end of the day it's like 0:03:23.050 --> 0:03:25.490 How do I measure that you are a person who 0:03:25.490 --> 0:03:27.529 is there, and if I'm the person who is applying 0:03:27.529 --> 0:03:29.799 for the job, I'll be like, yeah, I can do this, 0:03:29.869 --> 0:03:32.130 or some people might say, oh no, I'm not sure 0:03:32.130 --> 0:03:34.770 if I am creative enough for you, or I'm not 0:03:34.770 --> 0:03:36.729 sure what you mean by take initiative. So I think 0:03:36.729 --> 0:03:39.649 some of these lingo or the jargon that they put 0:03:39.649 --> 0:03:42.009 on the job postings may not be very realistic or 0:03:42.009 --> 0:03:43.720 may actually be a barrier to entry. 0:03:44.050 --> 0:03:45.770 I think Tiffany are being very kind. I mean the 0:03:45.770 --> 0:03:49.009 real example, I was writing that article, the job description 0:03:49.009 --> 0:03:50.270 sitting in front of me saying that 0:03:50.490 --> 0:03:56.309 We're looking for someone with strategic view and detail oriented. 0:03:56.839 --> 0:03:59.479 But how is it going to happen? I'm very strategic, 0:03:59.630 --> 0:04:02.070 giving an overview direction or so, but at the same time, 0:04:02.110 --> 0:04:06.190 a very detail-oriented person. You're looking for two personalities in 0:04:06.190 --> 0:04:11.199 one person. So how? I've never met somebody and yet 0:04:11.199 --> 0:04:13.550 these are the things that you often see in the 0:04:13.550 --> 0:04:15.990 job description. So you will be asking yourself, should I 0:04:15.990 --> 0:04:18.829 or should I not? I may be detail oriented, but 0:04:18.829 --> 0:04:20.109 I certainly not a strategic view. 0:04:20.248 --> 0:04:23.398 At the same time. So when a company put the 0:04:23.398 --> 0:04:26.519 words like this, whether it's by default, they write something 0:04:26.519 --> 0:04:30.699 or because of AI generated, they are ineffectively driving certain 0:04:30.699 --> 0:04:35.039 candidates away and the reality is good candidates always have 0:04:35.039 --> 0:04:38.419 great expectation for themselves. You will come across a candidate 0:04:38.419 --> 0:04:39.998 who is really good at what they do and they 0:04:39.998 --> 0:04:42.998 want to set themselves for success. They will not apply 0:04:42.998 --> 0:04:45.118 for any job, they will not walk into any job 0:04:45.118 --> 0:04:46.859 when they think that I'm not going to make it. 0:04:47.398 --> 0:04:49.979 So then those applying to you are 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.839 Maybe just mediocre, maybe in the situation of wanting just 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.988 a job. So a good job description will make wonders 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.558 for you if you are an employer looking to hire 0:05:00.559 --> 0:05:03.390 people right now. So don't just outsource this to AI. 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.760 They can help you to maybe do a certain draft 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:07.919 or so, but you need to really verify it. 0:05:08.238 --> 0:05:11.500 And most of the time in enterprise situation, the hiring 0:05:11.500 --> 0:05:14.489 manager who is hiring for that position may be the 0:05:14.488 --> 0:05:17.649 one who's driving it or writing the job description, but 0:05:17.649 --> 0:05:20.290 sometimes it is actually the HR who is doing the 0:05:20.290 --> 0:05:22.690 work for them because the hiring manager may be too 0:05:22.690 --> 0:05:25.690 busy or whatever. So our suggestion is always you want 0:05:25.690 --> 0:05:28.089 to make sure that's right, the combination because HR has 0:05:28.089 --> 0:05:31.769 the expertise in our case it's like massaging the job description, 0:05:31.809 --> 0:05:33.809 the first draft may be from the hiring manager and 0:05:33.809 --> 0:05:35.940 HR can massage it more palatable. 0:05:36.355 --> 0:05:38.515 To the readers or so, but don't just let either 0:05:38.515 --> 0:05:40.303 one of those just do the work, it will never 0:05:40.303 --> 0:05:41.904 really work, in my opinion. 0:05:42.274 --> 0:05:44.875 I want to talk a little bit about the unofficial 0:05:44.875 --> 0:05:47.915 translation guide that you actually wrote in terms of the 0:05:47.915 --> 0:05:50.195 job description. I'm asking because when I look at the 0:05:50.195 --> 0:05:52.915 job description, sometimes even when I'm told, please write a 0:05:52.915 --> 0:05:55.674 job description for this role that we would like to 0:05:55.674 --> 0:05:58.345 hire for your team, and I'm just like, I don't know. 0:05:58.553 --> 0:06:03.154 So for example, when somebody says fast-paced environment, what does 0:06:03.154 --> 0:06:03.704 that mean? 0:06:05.019 --> 0:06:08.140 Well, OK, I, I can be wrong, but I've been 0:06:08.140 --> 0:06:10.058 doing this a lot, right? And I will tell the 0:06:10.059 --> 0:06:12.179 client the same thing. When you write fast pace, you're 0:06:12.178 --> 0:06:15.450 literally telling people that you're shorthanded, you don't have enough people, 0:06:15.779 --> 0:06:17.359 so you get people to do faster. 0:06:17.500 --> 0:06:20.540 That's true, that's probably what I'll write in there as well. 0:06:20.700 --> 0:06:23.260 I guess I just want to cover a bit of 0:06:23.260 --> 0:06:26.130 my basis, you know, making sure that people are clear. 0:06:26.230 --> 0:06:28.859 But I also don't see, I mean, what would they 0:06:28.859 --> 0:06:29.790 say if they don't say. 0:06:31.510 --> 0:06:36.130 Yeah, normal pace. We are normal pace. Every company these days, 0:06:36.209 --> 0:06:39.450 you see, you expect to see fast pace in the 0:06:39.450 --> 0:06:40.450 first or the last line. 0:06:40.570 --> 0:06:41.970 So that's the first thing I tell my client. You 0:06:41.970 --> 0:06:44.970 put fast-paced candidates, look at this. Then what do you expect? 0:06:45.089 --> 0:06:46.890 You want to lose some candidates. You write a job 0:06:46.890 --> 0:06:50.850 description trying to attract more candidates, right? So it's counterintuitive, 0:06:50.928 --> 0:06:51.410 so why do you put 0:06:51.410 --> 0:06:51.609 it in. 0:06:52.755 --> 0:06:55.024 About the people who are slower paced, you know what 0:06:55.024 --> 0:06:58.325 I mean? Like they're naturally used to the chill vibes. 0:06:58.945 --> 0:07:02.933 I don't know, Tiffany I'm not a very fast person, 0:07:03.105 --> 0:07:05.375 when I see the fast pace, would I still click yes, 0:07:05.744 --> 0:07:06.665 depending on my situation, 0:07:07.165 --> 0:07:09.674 buyers beware, right? Then I'm telling you that I already 0:07:09.674 --> 0:07:11.704 told you this is a very fast-paced environment, so when 0:07:11.704 --> 0:07:13.984 you come and join me, don't be a snail about this. 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.029 Um, see, I would write that in the job description 0:07:18.029 --> 0:07:19.290 so I can see about people. 0:07:19.369 --> 0:07:22.089 There's a valid point there, but I think the reality 0:07:22.089 --> 0:07:24.929 is out of 100 applicants, if you can get 5 0:07:24.929 --> 0:07:27.410 people out of the 100, you consider yourself lucky. But 0:07:27.410 --> 0:07:30.290 you're right, like the fast pace then some 0:07:30.290 --> 0:07:32.250 competitive salary. Tell me what does that 0:07:32.250 --> 0:07:32.720 mean? 0:07:33.089 --> 0:07:35.750 In my version, that means I can't pay you good enough, 0:07:35.809 --> 0:07:38.040 so I'm just only competitive in a sense. 0:07:40.290 --> 0:07:41.250 I mean I might pay you like lower 0:07:41.250 --> 0:07:41.809 than average. 0:07:41.890 --> 0:07:43.730 I might pay you lower than average. 0:07:43.812 --> 0:07:46.191 Or at the best, I pay you just market average. 0:07:46.282 --> 0:07:48.312 I mean, if I'm the best paymaster in the market, 0:07:48.481 --> 0:07:50.601 why would I put it there? You know, it's just 0:07:50.601 --> 0:07:53.842 unnecessary and it's not a selling point. People think that 0:07:53.842 --> 0:07:55.881 competitive salary is a selling point. I can't 0:07:55.881 --> 0:07:58.291 see it. OK, we get this a lot as well, self-starter, 0:07:59.361 --> 0:08:04.231 like the sourdough. What does self-starter even mean? right? at 0:08:04.231 --> 0:08:04.902 the right if you feed me 0:08:04.902 --> 0:08:05.851 well, meaning 0:08:05.851 --> 0:08:08.002 that's right, you come on board the first day, go 0:08:08.002 --> 0:08:10.041 bring me the revenue or whatever things I get you 0:08:10.041 --> 0:08:11.962 to do. So effectively telling the candidate. 0:08:12.204 --> 0:08:14.194 need to grab it all by yourself. I don't have 0:08:14.194 --> 0:08:16.683 enough time to train you and then you have to 0:08:16.683 --> 0:08:19.114 rely on yourself to do that. That's a self-starter in 0:08:19.114 --> 0:08:21.084 my opinion, like what you say is Shad, right? You 0:08:21.084 --> 0:08:23.194 leave it there for you to do whatever works. I'm 0:08:23.194 --> 0:08:25.234 not there to teach you. If not, then my selling 0:08:25.234 --> 0:08:28.664 point will be we have the effective training system set up. 0:08:28.993 --> 0:08:31.243 We have the guidance systems, that is a selling point. 0:08:31.394 --> 0:08:34.554 Self-starter is not a selling point. It's quite the other 0:08:34.554 --> 0:08:35.012 way around. 0:08:35.234 --> 0:08:39.153 Last one, things like 5+ years of experience or 7+ 0:08:39.153 --> 0:08:40.304 years of experience. 0:08:40.596 --> 0:08:43.736 Is it true? Do I really need exactly what they say? 0:08:44.026 --> 0:08:46.786 The short answer is no. You don't really have to 0:08:46.785 --> 0:08:49.425 be 100%. And you talk to any headhunters out there, 0:08:49.546 --> 0:08:51.585 the first thing that we do when we talk to 0:08:51.585 --> 0:08:54.026 the clients is to take the job description and then 0:08:54.026 --> 0:08:56.435 strike it back. My question to my clients would be, 0:08:56.505 --> 0:08:59.954 so what is absolutely necessary here? What is good to have? 0:09:00.065 --> 0:09:02.935 That is a rookie 101 for all the recruiters really, 0:09:03.026 --> 0:09:05.705 because everybody knows that the job description is a wish 0:09:05.705 --> 0:09:08.906 list because you know there is no 100% perfect candidate. 0:09:09.159 --> 0:09:11.289 So if you look at the job description, you see 0:09:11.289 --> 0:09:14.609 that you have about 60 or 70% that can fit 0:09:14.609 --> 0:09:17.369 into this job doing what they do so just apply, 0:09:17.460 --> 0:09:21.449 go ahead, because like chances are the rest of the 30%, 40% 0:09:21.450 --> 0:09:23.690 that you don't have is just good to have. And 0:09:23.690 --> 0:09:25.770 I can say for most of the companies, they will 0:09:25.770 --> 0:09:28.650 be willing to train and guide certain people. I don't 0:09:28.650 --> 0:09:30.530 think they are in a fairy tale land and thinking 0:09:30.530 --> 0:09:32.729 about always get the 100% candidates, they don't. 0:09:33.049 --> 0:09:34.780 But I also think most of the clients they are 0:09:34.780 --> 0:09:38.219 not ready to just take on anyone without the essential 0:09:38.219 --> 0:09:41.280 skill set that they need for that particular job. So 0:09:41.460 --> 0:09:43.780 the short answer is yes, just go and apply if 0:09:43.780 --> 0:09:47.500 you think that you've 70%, 60% matching of the job description, 0:09:47.539 --> 0:09:48.329 you're fine to go. 0:09:49.380 --> 0:09:51.619 So far we've been talking about the job description, the 0:09:51.619 --> 0:09:55.218 way it's worded, it alienates some deserving candidates from applying, right? 0:09:55.299 --> 0:09:57.968 But at least the employee is still sincere about hiring, 0:09:58.020 --> 0:10:01.130 so they write a really unrealistic job description. How about 0:10:01.130 --> 0:10:03.689 job descriptions that are not sincere about hiring, you know, 0:10:03.770 --> 0:10:07.530 they are just there to collect information because I've heard 0:10:07.530 --> 0:10:10.250 for many individuals, many clients when they apply for a job, 0:10:10.289 --> 0:10:11.929 they don't even know whether it's real. They said, you know, 0:10:11.969 --> 0:10:14.729 I applied, there's no reply, and I keep seeing this 0:10:14.729 --> 0:10:17.489 job being posted over and over again, right? 0:10:17.659 --> 0:10:20.799 So there's a possibility that they haven't found a perfect candidate, right? 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.789 There's also a possibility that they are just there collecting information. 0:10:24.119 --> 0:10:26.478 I don't understand this collecting resumes. What does that mean? 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.520 Why do companies do that? Well, 0:10:28.719 --> 0:10:30.848 I think there are many reasons why the company will 0:10:30.849 --> 0:10:34.520 want to collect the resume. One, it's probably because the 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.598 headcount is not there yet, but they want to start 0:10:37.599 --> 0:10:39.630 collecting now and when the headcount is ready, 0:10:39.979 --> 0:10:42.799 They can start interviewing. A lot of time they interview 0:10:42.799 --> 0:10:46.010 even before the headcount is granted because they think that 0:10:46.010 --> 0:10:48.729 they will get the headcount. So then I start interviewing, 0:10:48.770 --> 0:10:51.809 I will start running all the necessities and I've even 0:10:51.809 --> 0:10:54.049 come across a situation that, OK, this is the candidate 0:10:54.049 --> 0:10:55.169 we want to hire, but we can't. 0:10:55.270 --> 0:10:58.488 Do it now because the headcount is only ready in July. 0:10:58.700 --> 0:10:59.039 Were they 0:10:59.039 --> 0:11:00.179 very upfront with the 0:11:00.179 --> 0:11:00.630 candidate? 0:11:00.909 --> 0:11:04.820 Um sometimes yes. Unfortunately, sometimes no, but you see, in 0:11:04.820 --> 0:11:07.940 a legitimate situation where a company genuinely wanted to do 0:11:07.940 --> 0:11:10.409 it right, there are ways to overcome this, for example, 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.520 If now is May, my headcount is only ready in July. 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.799 I will give you an offer letter right now, but 0:11:15.799 --> 0:11:18.598 it only starts from July onwards, because some organizations, they 0:11:18.599 --> 0:11:20.919 are very strict in their headcount planning, which is nothing 0:11:20.919 --> 0:11:22.429 wrong with it. Yeah, because it could be a new 0:11:22.429 --> 0:11:25.119 financial year, absolutely new financial year, and I will not 0:11:25.119 --> 0:11:27.718 warrant anything before that or so, but I'm legitimate in 0:11:27.719 --> 0:11:31.440 having this headcount right now. So that's OK. But there 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.400 are times like what you mentioned, people just wanting to 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:38.150 get their resume to understand what's going on in the market. Worst, 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:39.530 you are actually 0:11:39.585 --> 0:11:42.603 Interviewing candidates trying to get a market info for your 0:11:42.604 --> 0:11:45.715 business purposes, but you have no intention to hire people. 0:11:46.125 --> 0:11:48.765 That is real. The listeners can't see your face, Tiffany, 0:11:48.844 --> 0:11:49.604 but I know my 0:11:49.604 --> 0:11:52.843 eyes are wide open and Gerald is like, yeah, I've 0:11:52.844 --> 0:11:55.603 heard of these unscrupulous means, but that's terrible. 0:11:55.854 --> 0:12:00.364 Yes, unfortunately. I even come across the clients asking for 0:12:00.364 --> 0:12:03.853 the client list from the candidate and then just never 0:12:03.854 --> 0:12:06.044 hear from them again. I mean, there are people like that, 0:12:06.125 --> 0:12:08.325 so it is true that as a job seeker, 0:12:08.809 --> 0:12:11.280 You probably want to be a little bit more careful 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:15.090 about what you encounter, but to answer to Gerald's question, 0:12:15.210 --> 0:12:18.260 how do I see from a job description alone is 0:12:18.260 --> 0:12:22.169 it possible? It's difficult, but there are common things that 0:12:22.169 --> 0:12:24.809 maybe you can look at for examples. If a job 0:12:24.809 --> 0:12:28.169 descriptions are all about telling you all the benefits about 0:12:28.169 --> 0:12:31.609 an organization, or culture are great, we have a morning 0:12:31.609 --> 0:12:35.349 yoga classes with the free, I don't know, smoothies or whatever, 0:12:35.450 --> 0:12:38.260 but it's very little about the actual job and 0:12:38.700 --> 0:12:41.049 I will ask myself, right, and is this for real? 0:12:41.210 --> 0:12:43.880 company hire you, pay you the money for the content 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.650 they're going to produce for them, not to get you 0:12:46.650 --> 0:12:49.729 to enjoy the yoga in the morning. I find it 0:12:49.729 --> 0:12:52.530 quite funny. But then that's one. So there are certain 0:12:52.530 --> 0:12:55.689 cases where the company says in the job description that 0:12:55.690 --> 0:12:59.409 the role may evolve when the company grow. What does 0:12:59.409 --> 0:13:02.250 that mean? Yeah, I mean when you're a startup situation, 0:13:02.359 --> 0:13:03.140 you're really in 0:13:03.190 --> 0:13:05.939 The growing mode, maybe you just get a funding from 0:13:05.940 --> 0:13:08.409 a VC or so you just hire the right talent, 0:13:08.700 --> 0:13:11.358 then there are many positions that you can actually allocate 0:13:11.359 --> 0:13:15.219 them to. So that's real. But in other circumstances, if 0:13:15.219 --> 0:13:17.659 you come across a phrase like this in the company 0:13:17.659 --> 0:13:20.380 that doesn't associate to this situation, you ask yourself, what 0:13:20.380 --> 0:13:23.940 does it mean really? So you're hiring people with any 0:13:23.940 --> 0:13:26.380 potential walk into any role itself, right? That is a 0:13:26.380 --> 0:13:27.500 big question mark to me. 0:13:28.020 --> 0:13:31.650 Another example can be the company say we're hiring across 0:13:31.650 --> 0:13:35.919 multiple levels and we will match based on your experience. 0:13:36.090 --> 0:13:38.890 What does it mean really? So a real example, a 0:13:38.890 --> 0:13:43.049 candidates walk into the interview for a sales director position 0:13:43.049 --> 0:13:46.869 and then the company asking all those questions about sales strategy, 0:13:46.989 --> 0:13:50.010 your go to market, a typical question for a sales 0:13:50.010 --> 0:13:52.968 director and at the end of it, they are thinking about, 0:13:53.090 --> 0:13:56.520 oh we might just need a sales manager. Are you open? 0:13:56.666 --> 0:13:59.697 To consider if it is a sales manager position, then 0:13:59.697 --> 0:14:02.256 you will be asking yourself, is it even possible for 0:14:02.256 --> 0:14:05.817 a company to eye for a sales director, but they 0:14:05.817 --> 0:14:08.617 are actually thinking that I might just need a sales manager. 0:14:08.856 --> 0:14:10.976 But could it be that through the interview, they feel 0:14:10.976 --> 0:14:14.137 that your skills and competencies are not there yet for 0:14:14.136 --> 0:14:16.937 a sales director, but they still like you because you 0:14:16.937 --> 0:14:19.377 have good attitude. So they would like to create a 0:14:19.377 --> 0:14:21.536 position or there could be an open position just that 0:14:21.536 --> 0:14:23.617 you applied for the sales director role. Sure, 0:14:23.656 --> 0:14:25.267 absolutely, that happens. So in the 0:14:25.504 --> 0:14:27.864 situation where I still like you, but I don't think 0:14:27.864 --> 0:14:29.343 you're a sales director level 0:14:29.343 --> 0:14:29.664 yet, 0:14:29.783 --> 0:14:31.544 but we can try and push you 0:14:31.544 --> 0:14:33.424 in the sales manager, then you can show to us 0:14:33.424 --> 0:14:35.703 that you are actually able to become a sales director. 0:14:35.934 --> 0:14:39.294 It's a different story compared to with a multiple position, 0:14:39.504 --> 0:14:42.093 we might consider based on your experience. In my opinion, 0:14:42.304 --> 0:14:46.104 typically organizations don't do that. You don't think about, I'm 0:14:46.104 --> 0:14:49.223 actually having these two positions, I'm toying about what could 0:14:49.223 --> 0:14:52.143 be the possibilities. It's very unlikely. Most of the time 0:14:52.143 --> 0:14:53.823 you get your headcount ready, you have a go. 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.500 to market strategy already have the account set up. For 0:14:57.500 --> 0:14:59.991 anyone to come across such a situation, you need to 0:14:59.991 --> 0:15:01.890 be careful because it can be a situation that we 0:15:01.890 --> 0:15:04.750 want to bait you into a certain position, but we 0:15:04.750 --> 0:15:08.281 are trying our luck. Remember, when you are selling yourself 0:15:08.281 --> 0:15:11.270 to a potential job opportunity, most of the time the 0:15:11.270 --> 0:15:15.231 organization is also trying to sell to you the opportunity. 0:15:15.370 --> 0:15:17.911 They may be thinking, hey, if I just say I'm 0:15:17.911 --> 0:15:20.181 hiring a sales manager, I might not have a chance 0:15:20.181 --> 0:15:22.471 to meet this candidate because they won't apply. 0:15:22.809 --> 0:15:25.200 So why don't I try my luck? I invite this 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.130 person to come in and then see whether I can 0:15:27.130 --> 0:15:29.919 charm them in the way or so. It's not like 0:15:29.919 --> 0:15:31.630 you can't do that, but if we can be a 0:15:31.630 --> 0:15:33.599 little bit more transparent, this is one of them that 0:15:33.599 --> 0:15:36.030 usually done by the organization. 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:37.919 I think the baiting part of it. I think it 0:15:37.919 --> 0:15:40.250 does happen quite often. I think we talked about this before, 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.830 getting lowballed into a job, right? You apply for something 0:15:42.830 --> 0:15:44.809 but you're told like actually, you know, it's not really 0:15:44.809 --> 0:15:47.320 that thing. You are more suitable for another role, lower pay, 0:15:47.479 --> 0:15:48.929 lower responsibilities, and then 0:15:49.299 --> 0:15:52.820 Because you feel like you're already there and the company 0:15:52.820 --> 0:15:55.760 feels they already pitched to you, they're more likely to 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.580 accept it from the company's perspective. Why they want to 0:15:57.580 --> 0:16:00.500 do that is they want to attract high caliber candidates, 0:16:00.710 --> 0:16:03.820 but in reality, they want them to do slightly lower 0:16:03.820 --> 0:16:05.900 on a role with less responsibilities at a lower pay. 0:16:06.580 --> 0:16:10.219 I brought at this point because I know somebody, he 0:16:10.219 --> 0:16:13.460 saw a job listing for like a department head. They 0:16:13.460 --> 0:16:15.729 were going to create a new department in this company. 0:16:15.940 --> 0:16:18.500 He saw the job listing, he applied for it knowing. 0:16:18.750 --> 0:16:21.299 That he didn't have the skills to do it, but 0:16:21.299 --> 0:16:24.159 he really wanted to join the company and during the interview, 0:16:24.460 --> 0:16:26.700 after maybe about a good half an hour, they did 0:16:26.700 --> 0:16:29.500 tell him, look, you and I both know that you're 0:16:29.500 --> 0:16:32.059 not at that skill competency yet. They were very upfront 0:16:32.059 --> 0:16:35.020 with him and said, actually we would really like to 0:16:35.020 --> 0:16:37.940 hire you but not at this job position. 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.400 So in that case, would you mind waiting until we 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.880 basically hire your boss? And this person was like, yeah, 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:46.909 I don't mind waiting because I really like your company 0:16:46.909 --> 0:16:49.799 and I would like to work for you. So he 0:16:49.799 --> 0:16:52.450 signed an offer letter and waited for about 4 months. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.359 Eventually did it work out? It did work out, but 0:16:55.359 --> 0:16:57.820 it all sounded pretty scammy to me at that point 0:16:57.820 --> 0:17:00.599 of time with me just thinking now having this conversation, 0:17:00.679 --> 0:17:01.280 I'm just thinking. 0:17:01.393 --> 0:17:04.782 To myself, I'll be like, please do not sign that 0:17:04.782 --> 0:17:06.942 contract because we don't know. 4 months later what's going 0:17:06.942 --> 0:17:09.262 to happen, right? But I think in this particular case, 0:17:09.463 --> 0:17:11.052 it kind of worked out and I'm sure like when 0:17:11.052 --> 0:17:13.061 there are new departments, new teams formed, there's going to 0:17:13.061 --> 0:17:16.262 be multiple positions. If the employers up front and sincere 0:17:16.262 --> 0:17:18.623 about it, it's still not so bad, right? But they 0:17:18.623 --> 0:17:21.463 can go the other way where the company didn't have 0:17:21.463 --> 0:17:23.941 any intention of hiring so many and they're just trying 0:17:23.942 --> 0:17:24.422 to bid you. 0:17:24.536 --> 0:17:27.406 So that's a totally different intentions altogether. So I think 0:17:27.406 --> 0:17:30.645 going in also knowing that you're not desperate for this 0:17:30.645 --> 0:17:32.485 allows you to go, you know, can I wait 4 months. 0:17:32.526 --> 0:17:33.845 If I cannot wait 4 months, then I'm going to 0:17:33.845 --> 0:17:36.645 go and find something else. But didn't know that it's 0:17:36.645 --> 0:17:37.465 going to be 4 months as well, 0:17:40.186 --> 0:17:42.125 right? But in the case of your friend Tiffany, if 0:17:42.125 --> 0:17:44.365 I'm the one talking to your friend, I'll be telling 0:17:44.365 --> 0:17:46.406 your friend that you still need to be a little 0:17:46.406 --> 0:17:47.526 bit careful one. 0:17:48.050 --> 0:17:50.469 You really don't know what's going to happen. You don't 0:17:50.469 --> 0:17:53.149 know who is going to be your future boss, someone 0:17:53.150 --> 0:17:55.260