Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast.
Speaker 1: Hi there. It's the Work It podcast with Tiffany and Gerald. Now, recently,
Speaker 1: I was trolling through Reddit and I was having a
Speaker 1: good laugh, reading about some insane job postings. OK, so
Speaker 1: for example, there was one looking for a virtual assistant
Speaker 1: but only pays $1000 a month and the caveat is
Speaker 1: that you're not allowed to have a side job, which
Speaker 1: distracts you from giving this role your 100%. And then
Speaker 1: there's the issue of fake job list.
Speaker 1: Have you heard about that, Gerald? Fake job listings. I'm
Speaker 1: not talking about a scam kind, right? Yeah, yeah. So
Speaker 1: what I was them as maybe insincere job postings. They're posted,
Speaker 1: they're listed on job portals by the employers are not
Speaker 1: really genuine about hiring. So sometimes they could be like
Speaker 1: ictitious jobs posted by recruiters just to build a candidate pool,
Speaker 1: or sometimes they're doing market research on salaries. They could be,
Speaker 1: you know, companies checking out the market for talent before
Speaker 1: they decide to relocate here.
Speaker 1: Of, of course, we also know that some companies, they
Speaker 1: just post the job ads for the sake of posting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they already pre-identified somebody already and they're letting the
Speaker 1: posting go up there. So in fact, I think a
Speaker 1: survey by resume builder, there's a career site, they said
Speaker 1: as many as 4 in 10 companies said that.
Speaker 1: a fake job listing. This is something that I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners out there would be very
Speaker 1: keen to know how do we differentiate between a job
Speaker 1: posting that is sincere and one that is just there
Speaker 1: to collect resumes or collect information. So what are some
Speaker 1: red flags that we can look up for when we
Speaker 1: read job descriptions.
Speaker 1: So we are very happy to have in the studio
Speaker 1: with us Han Lee, he is director of executive search
Speaker 1: from Lio Resources, and he's here to give us some tips. Welcome. Hi,
Speaker 2: good morning, everyone.
Speaker 1: So Han, I want to ask you, have you encountered
Speaker 1: any of these kind of absurd job listings before in
Speaker 1: your line of work?
Speaker 2: Of course, I've seen it many times actually. I mean,
Speaker 2: our job of online is really read the job description
Speaker 2: from a clients or so and sometimes you have to
Speaker 2: Really stop yourself from having a laugh, you know, like
Speaker 2: I wrote about the poster a few weeks ago, talk about.
Speaker 2: When I see the job description, I was asking myself, right,
Speaker 2: is this for real? How am I going to find
Speaker 2: someone for these clients when you look at the job
Speaker 2: description like that. So it's not so much of a scammer.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of time it's a wish list
Speaker 2: they want to have for this perfect candidate and I
Speaker 2: think underneath they also know that it's probably not going
Speaker 2: to happen, but it's more like trying to cast a
Speaker 2: wider net, attracting more people to apply for the job,
Speaker 2: but I think most of the time it's probably counter
Speaker 2: effective because
Speaker 2: The great candidates might be looking at a job description
Speaker 2: thinking that hey, I only take like 70% of the boxes,
Speaker 2: but I don't want to fail myself for a job, right?
Speaker 2: So I don't apply because I don't have the rest
Speaker 2: of the 30%. But the reality is that 30% can
Speaker 2: be just a good to have. But in job description,
Speaker 2: you don't really list it in the way that this
Speaker 2: is the one I must have, this is the one
Speaker 2: I'm really just OK.
Speaker 2: To not have, right? So that's becoming a problem for
Speaker 2: the job description. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, nobody puts up a section that says this
Speaker 1: is a must have and then the nice to have.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think to myself, there's no way I'm going
Speaker 1: to be able to hit maybe even 50% of what
Speaker 1: they are asking for because they always like I want
Speaker 1: an individual who is a creative, who takes initiative, but
Speaker 1: at the end of the day it's like
Speaker 1: How do I measure that you are a person who
Speaker 1: is there, and if I'm the person who is applying
Speaker 1: for the job, I'll be like, yeah, I can do this,
Speaker 1: or some people might say, oh no, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if I am creative enough for you, or I'm not
Speaker 1: sure what you mean by take initiative. So I think
Speaker 1: some of these lingo or the jargon that they put
Speaker 1: on the job postings may not be very realistic or
Speaker 1: may actually be a barrier to entry.
Speaker 2: I think Tiffany are being very kind. I mean the
Speaker 2: real example, I was writing that article, the job description
Speaker 2: sitting in front of me saying that
Speaker 2: We're looking for someone with strategic view and detail oriented.
Speaker 2: But how is it going to happen? I'm very strategic,
Speaker 2: giving an overview direction or so, but at the same time,
Speaker 2: a very detail-oriented person. You're looking for two personalities in
Speaker 2: one person. So how? I've never met somebody and yet
Speaker 2: these are the things that you often see in the
Speaker 2: job description. So you will be asking yourself, should I
Speaker 2: or should I not? I may be detail oriented, but
Speaker 2: I certainly not a strategic view.
Speaker 2: At the same time. So when a company put the
Speaker 2: words like this, whether it's by default, they write something
Speaker 2: or because of AI generated, they are ineffectively driving certain
Speaker 2: candidates away and the reality is good candidates always have
Speaker 2: great expectation for themselves. You will come across a candidate
Speaker 2: who is really good at what they do and they
Speaker 2: want to set themselves for success. They will not apply
Speaker 2: for any job, they will not walk into any job
Speaker 2: when they think that I'm not going to make it.
Speaker 2: So then those applying to you are
Speaker 2: Maybe just mediocre, maybe in the situation of wanting just
Speaker 2: a job. So a good job description will make wonders
Speaker 2: for you if you are an employer looking to hire
Speaker 2: people right now. So don't just outsource this to AI.
Speaker 2: They can help you to maybe do a certain draft
Speaker 2: or so, but you need to really verify it.
Speaker 2: And most of the time in enterprise situation, the hiring
Speaker 2: manager who is hiring for that position may be the
Speaker 2: one who's driving it or writing the job description, but
Speaker 2: sometimes it is actually the HR who is doing the
Speaker 2: work for them because the hiring manager may be too
Speaker 2: busy or whatever. So our suggestion is always you want
Speaker 2: to make sure that's right, the combination because HR has
Speaker 2: the expertise in our case it's like massaging the job description,
Speaker 2: the first draft may be from the hiring manager and
Speaker 2: HR can massage it more palatable.
Speaker 2: To the readers or so, but don't just let either
Speaker 2: one of those just do the work, it will never
Speaker 2: really work, in my opinion.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about the unofficial
Speaker 1: translation guide that you actually wrote in terms of the
Speaker 1: job description. I'm asking because when I look at the
Speaker 1: job description, sometimes even when I'm told, please write a
Speaker 1: job description for this role that we would like to
Speaker 1: hire for your team, and I'm just like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: So for example, when somebody says fast-paced environment, what does
Speaker 1: that mean?
Speaker 2: Well, OK, I, I can be wrong, but I've been
Speaker 2: doing this a lot, right? And I will tell the
Speaker 2: client the same thing. When you write fast pace, you're
Speaker 2: literally telling people that you're shorthanded, you don't have enough people,
Speaker 2: so you get people to do faster.
Speaker 1: That's true, that's probably what I'll write in there as well.
Speaker 1: I guess I just want to cover a bit of
Speaker 1: my basis, you know, making sure that people are clear.
Speaker 1: But I also don't see, I mean, what would they
Speaker 1: say if they don't say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, normal pace. We are normal pace. Every company these days,
Speaker 1: you see, you expect to see fast pace in the
Speaker 1: first or the last line.
Speaker 2: So that's the first thing I tell my client. You
Speaker 2: put fast-paced candidates, look at this. Then what do you expect?
Speaker 2: You want to lose some candidates. You write a job
Speaker 2: description trying to attract more candidates, right? So it's counterintuitive,
Speaker 2: so why do you put
Speaker 1: it in.
Speaker 1: About the people who are slower paced, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like they're naturally used to the chill vibes.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Tiffany I'm not a very fast person,
Speaker 2: when I see the fast pace, would I still click yes,
Speaker 2: depending on my situation,
Speaker 1: buyers beware, right? Then I'm telling you that I already
Speaker 1: told you this is a very fast-paced environment, so when
Speaker 1: you come and join me, don't be a snail about this.
Speaker 1: Um, see, I would write that in the job description
Speaker 1: so I can see about people.
Speaker 2: There's a valid point there, but I think the reality
Speaker 2: is out of 100 applicants, if you can get 5
Speaker 2: people out of the 100, you consider yourself lucky. But
Speaker 2: you're right, like the fast pace then some
Speaker 1: competitive salary. Tell me what does that
Speaker 1: mean?
Speaker 2: In my version, that means I can't pay you good enough,
Speaker 2: so I'm just only competitive in a sense.
Speaker 1: I mean I might pay you like lower
Speaker 1: than average.
Speaker 2: I might pay you lower than average.
Speaker 2: Or at the best, I pay you just market average.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm the best paymaster in the market,
Speaker 2: why would I put it there? You know, it's just
Speaker 2: unnecessary and it's not a selling point. People think that
Speaker 2: competitive salary is a selling point. I can't
Speaker 1: see it. OK, we get this a lot as well, self-starter,
Speaker 1: like the sourdough. What does self-starter even mean? right? at
Speaker 1: the right if you feed me
Speaker 1: well, meaning
Speaker 2: that's right, you come on board the first day, go
Speaker 2: bring me the revenue or whatever things I get you
Speaker 2: to do. So effectively telling the candidate.
Speaker 2: need to grab it all by yourself. I don't have
Speaker 2: enough time to train you and then you have to
Speaker 2: rely on yourself to do that. That's a self-starter in
Speaker 2: my opinion, like what you say is Shad, right? You
Speaker 2: leave it there for you to do whatever works. I'm
Speaker 2: not there to teach you. If not, then my selling
Speaker 2: point will be we have the effective training system set up.
Speaker 2: We have the guidance systems, that is a selling point.
Speaker 2: Self-starter is not a selling point. It's quite the other
Speaker 2: way around.
Speaker 1: Last one, things like 5+ years of experience or 7+
Speaker 1: years of experience.
Speaker 1: Is it true? Do I really need exactly what they say?
Speaker 2: The short answer is no. You don't really have to
Speaker 2: be 100%. And you talk to any headhunters out there,
Speaker 2: the first thing that we do when we talk to
Speaker 2: the clients is to take the job description and then
Speaker 2: strike it back. My question to my clients would be,
Speaker 2: so what is absolutely necessary here? What is good to have?
Speaker 2: That is a rookie 101 for all the recruiters really,
Speaker 2: because everybody knows that the job description is a wish
Speaker 2: list because you know there is no 100% perfect candidate.
Speaker 2: So if you look at the job description, you see
Speaker 2: that you have about 60 or 70% that can fit
Speaker 2: into this job doing what they do so just apply,
Speaker 2: go ahead, because like chances are the rest of the 30%, 40%
Speaker 2: that you don't have is just good to have. And
Speaker 2: I can say for most of the companies, they will
Speaker 2: be willing to train and guide certain people. I don't
Speaker 2: think they are in a fairy tale land and thinking
Speaker 2: about always get the 100% candidates, they don't.
Speaker 2: But I also think most of the clients they are
Speaker 2: not ready to just take on anyone without the essential
Speaker 2: skill set that they need for that particular job. So
Speaker 2: the short answer is yes, just go and apply if
Speaker 2: you think that you've 70%, 60% matching of the job description,
Speaker 2: you're fine to go.
Speaker 1: So far we've been talking about the job description, the
Speaker 1: way it's worded, it alienates some deserving candidates from applying, right?
Speaker 1: But at least the employee is still sincere about hiring,
Speaker 1: so they write a really unrealistic job description. How about
Speaker 1: job descriptions that are not sincere about hiring, you know,
Speaker 1: they are just there to collect information because I've heard
Speaker 1: for many individuals, many clients when they apply for a job,
Speaker 1: they don't even know whether it's real. They said, you know,
Speaker 1: I applied, there's no reply, and I keep seeing this
Speaker 1: job being posted over and over again, right?
Speaker 1: So there's a possibility that they haven't found a perfect candidate, right?
Speaker 1: There's also a possibility that they are just there collecting information.
Speaker 1: I don't understand this collecting resumes. What does that mean?
Speaker 1: Why do companies do that? Well,
Speaker 2: I think there are many reasons why the company will
Speaker 2: want to collect the resume. One, it's probably because the
Speaker 2: headcount is not there yet, but they want to start
Speaker 2: collecting now and when the headcount is ready,
Speaker 2: They can start interviewing. A lot of time they interview
Speaker 2: even before the headcount is granted because they think that
Speaker 2: they will get the headcount. So then I start interviewing,
Speaker 2: I will start running all the necessities and I've even
Speaker 2: come across a situation that, OK, this is the candidate
Speaker 2: we want to hire, but we can't.
Speaker 2: Do it now because the headcount is only ready in July.
Speaker 1: Were they
Speaker 1: very upfront with the
Speaker 1: candidate?
Speaker 2: Um sometimes yes. Unfortunately, sometimes no, but you see, in
Speaker 2: a legitimate situation where a company genuinely wanted to do
Speaker 2: it right, there are ways to overcome this, for example,
Speaker 2: If now is May, my headcount is only ready in July.
Speaker 2: I will give you an offer letter right now, but
Speaker 2: it only starts from July onwards, because some organizations, they
Speaker 2: are very strict in their headcount planning, which is nothing
Speaker 2: wrong with it. Yeah, because it could be a new
Speaker 2: financial year, absolutely new financial year, and I will not
Speaker 2: warrant anything before that or so, but I'm legitimate in
Speaker 2: having this headcount right now. So that's OK. But there
Speaker 2: are times like what you mentioned, people just wanting to
Speaker 2: get their resume to understand what's going on in the market. Worst,
Speaker 2: you are actually
Speaker 2: Interviewing candidates trying to get a market info for your
Speaker 2: business purposes, but you have no intention to hire people.
Speaker 2: That is real. The listeners can't see your face, Tiffany,
Speaker 2: but I know my
Speaker 1: eyes are wide open and Gerald is like, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: heard of these unscrupulous means, but that's terrible.
Speaker 2: Yes, unfortunately. I even come across the clients asking for
Speaker 2: the client list from the candidate and then just never
Speaker 2: hear from them again. I mean, there are people like that,
Speaker 2: so it is true that as a job seeker,
Speaker 2: You probably want to be a little bit more careful
Speaker 2: about what you encounter, but to answer to Gerald's question,
Speaker 2: how do I see from a job description alone is
Speaker 2: it possible? It's difficult, but there are common things that
Speaker 2: maybe you can look at for examples. If a job
Speaker 2: descriptions are all about telling you all the benefits about
Speaker 2: an organization, or culture are great, we have a morning
Speaker 2: yoga classes with the free, I don't know, smoothies or whatever,
Speaker 2: but it's very little about the actual job and
Speaker 2: I will ask myself, right, and is this for real?
Speaker 2: company hire you, pay you the money for the content
Speaker 2: they're going to produce for them, not to get you
Speaker 2: to enjoy the yoga in the morning. I find it
Speaker 2: quite funny. But then that's one. So there are certain
Speaker 2: cases where the company says in the job description that
Speaker 2: the role may evolve when the company grow. What does
Speaker 2: that mean? Yeah, I mean when you're a startup situation,
Speaker 2: you're really in
Speaker 2: The growing mode, maybe you just get a funding from
Speaker 2: a VC or so you just hire the right talent,
Speaker 2: then there are many positions that you can actually allocate
Speaker 2: them to. So that's real. But in other circumstances, if
Speaker 2: you come across a phrase like this in the company
Speaker 2: that doesn't associate to this situation, you ask yourself, what
Speaker 2: does it mean really? So you're hiring people with any
Speaker 2: potential walk into any role itself, right? That is a
Speaker 2: big question mark to me.
Speaker 2: Another example can be the company say we're hiring across
Speaker 2: multiple levels and we will match based on your experience.
Speaker 2: What does it mean really? So a real example, a
Speaker 2: candidates walk into the interview for a sales director position
Speaker 2: and then the company asking all those questions about sales strategy,
Speaker 2: your go to market, a typical question for a sales
Speaker 2: director and at the end of it, they are thinking about,
Speaker 2: oh we might just need a sales manager. Are you open?
Speaker 2: To consider if it is a sales manager position, then
Speaker 2: you will be asking yourself, is it even possible for
Speaker 2: a company to eye for a sales director, but they
Speaker 2: are actually thinking that I might just need a sales manager.
Speaker 1: But could it be that through the interview, they feel
Speaker 1: that your skills and competencies are not there yet for
Speaker 1: a sales director, but they still like you because you
Speaker 1: have good attitude. So they would like to create a
Speaker 1: position or there could be an open position just that
Speaker 1: you applied for the sales director role. Sure,
Speaker 2: absolutely, that happens. So in the
Speaker 2: situation where I still like you, but I don't think
Speaker 2: you're a sales director level
Speaker 2: yet,
Speaker 1: but we can try and push you
Speaker 2: in the sales manager, then you can show to us
Speaker 2: that you are actually able to become a sales director.
Speaker 2: It's a different story compared to with a multiple position,
Speaker 2: we might consider based on your experience. In my opinion,
Speaker 2: typically organizations don't do that. You don't think about, I'm
Speaker 2: actually having these two positions, I'm toying about what could
Speaker 2: be the possibilities. It's very unlikely. Most of the time
Speaker 2: you get your headcount ready, you have a go.
Speaker 2: to market strategy already have the account set up. For
Speaker 2: anyone to come across such a situation, you need to
Speaker 2: be careful because it can be a situation that we
Speaker 2: want to bait you into a certain position, but we
Speaker 2: are trying our luck. Remember, when you are selling yourself
Speaker 2: to a potential job opportunity, most of the time the
Speaker 2: organization is also trying to sell to you the opportunity.
Speaker 2: They may be thinking, hey, if I just say I'm
Speaker 2: hiring a sales manager, I might not have a chance
Speaker 2: to meet this candidate because they won't apply.
Speaker 2: So why don't I try my luck? I invite this
Speaker 2: person to come in and then see whether I can
Speaker 2: charm them in the way or so. It's not like
Speaker 2: you can't do that, but if we can be a
Speaker 2: little bit more transparent, this is one of them that
Speaker 2: usually done by the organization.
Speaker 1: I think the baiting part of it. I think it
Speaker 1: does happen quite often. I think we talked about this before,
Speaker 1: getting lowballed into a job, right? You apply for something
Speaker 1: but you're told like actually, you know, it's not really
Speaker 1: that thing. You are more suitable for another role, lower pay,
Speaker 1: lower responsibilities, and then
Speaker 1: Because you feel like you're already there and the company
Speaker 1: feels they already pitched to you, they're more likely to
Speaker 1: accept it from the company's perspective. Why they want to
Speaker 1: do that is they want to attract high caliber candidates,
Speaker 1: but in reality, they want them to do slightly lower
Speaker 1: on a role with less responsibilities at a lower pay.
Speaker 1: I brought at this point because I know somebody, he
Speaker 1: saw a job listing for like a department head. They
Speaker 1: were going to create a new department in this company.
Speaker 1: He saw the job listing, he applied for it knowing.
Speaker 1: That he didn't have the skills to do it, but
Speaker 1: he really wanted to join the company and during the interview,
Speaker 1: after maybe about a good half an hour, they did
Speaker 1: tell him, look, you and I both know that you're
Speaker 1: not at that skill competency yet. They were very upfront
Speaker 1: with him and said, actually we would really like to
Speaker 1: hire you but not at this job position.
Speaker 1: So in that case, would you mind waiting until we
Speaker 1: basically hire your boss? And this person was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't mind waiting because I really like your company
Speaker 1: and I would like to work for you. So he
Speaker 1: signed an offer letter and waited for about 4 months.
Speaker 1: Eventually did it work out? It did work out, but
Speaker 1: it all sounded pretty scammy to me at that point
Speaker 1: of time with me just thinking now having this conversation,
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking.
Speaker 1: To myself, I'll be like, please do not sign that
Speaker 1: contract because we don't know. 4 months later what's going
Speaker 1: to happen, right? But I think in this particular case,
Speaker 1: it kind of worked out and I'm sure like when
Speaker 1: there are new departments, new teams formed, there's going to
Speaker 1: be multiple positions. If the employers up front and sincere
Speaker 1: about it, it's still not so bad, right? But they
Speaker 1: can go the other way where the company didn't have
Speaker 1: any intention of hiring so many and they're just trying
Speaker 1: to bid you.
Speaker 1: So that's a totally different intentions altogether. So I think
Speaker 1: going in also knowing that you're not desperate for this
Speaker 1: allows you to go, you know, can I wait 4 months.
Speaker 1: If I cannot wait 4 months, then I'm going to
Speaker 1: go and find something else. But didn't know that it's
Speaker 1: going to be 4 months as well,
Speaker 2: right? But in the case of your friend Tiffany, if
Speaker 2: I'm the one talking to your friend, I'll be telling
Speaker 2: your friend that you still need to be a little
Speaker 2: bit careful one.
Speaker 2: You really don't know what's going to happen. You don't
Speaker 2: know who is going to be your future boss, someone
Speaker 2: you might or might not like, that is the period
Speaker 2: of gap here, then you just wait. That means that
Speaker 2: 4 month period of time, you can't do anything. So
Speaker 2: it's a commitment from the candidate that you surrender.
Speaker 2: control in the process. There's nothing much you can do.
Speaker 2: Whereas from the employer's perspective, there are a lot of
Speaker 2: things that they can do. I'm actually secure commitment from
Speaker 2: a candidate, so it's only one side winning, not the
Speaker 2: win-win situation that most of the time we're trying to achieve.
Speaker 2: In this case, I mean, it's the legitimate case, but
Speaker 2: it's just very dangerous case for the candidates.
Speaker 1: If let's say I know that this job listing is
Speaker 1: not real, the kind that I've gone for the interview
Speaker 1: and I know they're not very sincere in listing and
Speaker 1: then I go back to let's say LinkedIn or all
Speaker 1: the job portals and I keep seeing the same listing
Speaker 1: over and over again. Is there something that I can do?
Speaker 1: To maybe warn other potential job seekers.
Speaker 2: So you see the My Career Futures portal initiated by
Speaker 2: the government. If you post a job, you cannot repost
Speaker 2: it more than 2 times. So they're trying to restraint
Speaker 2: in that way. They're coming up with a very good
Speaker 2: initiative now trying to encourage whoever advertising it to give
Speaker 2: the response to the candidate because ghosting is a huge problem, right?
Speaker 2: So the time you hear, I apply, I don't hear anything.
Speaker 2: So they're trying to give you a very good view
Speaker 2: about is this the employer that usually gives response to
Speaker 2: the candidates, how often they come back with the response
Speaker 2: and then from the employer's perspective, all you do is
Speaker 2: really just a few click on the system itself. So
Speaker 2: I think it's a very good initiative. I don't think
Speaker 2: there are any specific body or
Speaker 2: Law or rules or so, but then I think the
Speaker 2: government is trying to do in the the other way, encouraging, yes,
Speaker 2: at least for their own porter. But ultimately, when it
Speaker 2: comes to the job seekers, I think the better way
Speaker 2: to do in my opinion is to equip yourself with
Speaker 2: the knowledge and better still, knowing what to ask is fundamental.
Speaker 2: For example, when you see the job description is too
Speaker 2: good to be true, ask the question, what is the
Speaker 2: job responsibility?
Speaker 2: Possibility for this one. What is the expectation? You are
Speaker 2: asking for a project directed. How big is the project?
Speaker 2: How big is the scale, how many people asking the
Speaker 2: right question throughout the process. It's fundamental. And if I
Speaker 2: use the case of your friend just now, Tiffany, not
Speaker 2: being seen that you are desperate, because when you're in
Speaker 2: desperate situation, you're probably not going to get a very
Speaker 2: good baroning power in that sense.
Speaker 2: So in that situation, I'll be asking, what's the pipeline
Speaker 2: of your head of department searching right now? What sort
Speaker 2: of the commitment I'm going to get from you if
Speaker 2: I give you my commitment right now? What is eventually
Speaker 2: the plan for this team? Those questions will help you
Speaker 2: to make a better decision. I think that is the
Speaker 2: fundamental skills that all the job seekers should possess with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if I to summarize, one of the
Speaker 1: things is if the job.
Speaker 1: Thing looks too good to be true, a yoga and milkshakes, right,
Speaker 1: then be careful about that. And the other thing we
Speaker 1: talked about was also if the job gets reposted several times,
Speaker 1: then you also kind of know something is not quite right.
Speaker 1: The third thing I would say is to maybe counter
Speaker 1: check whether this job exists on other portals because typically
Speaker 1: if the recruiter is sincere in hiring, they will post
Speaker 1: on several pages, including their own corporate website. So then
Speaker 1: you go there and you reference and you see, OK.
Speaker 1: So this is a legit job, just posted on different places.
Speaker 1: Just
Speaker 2: just
Speaker 2: a caveat a bit. Most of the time right now
Speaker 2: it's very unlikely an organization doesn't have the online footprint,
Speaker 2: very unlikely. So I think those are legitimate things you
Speaker 2: can look at.
Speaker 1: Well, this podcast definitely has been very helpful for me.
Speaker 1: I think even for myself, the next job listing that
Speaker 1: I put out, I better be very clear, like you say,
Speaker 1: put the
Speaker 2: just won an award, right? People come
Speaker 1: and look for you.
Speaker 1: No, I still have to, but I definitely will still
Speaker 1: put fast-paced environment because I don't want to sieve out
Speaker 1: the snails, but yeah, I shouldn't shoot myself in the
Speaker 1: foot with competitive salary and self-starter because even I don't
Speaker 1: really quite understand that. But thank you so much, Han,
Speaker 1: for coming on our podcast.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Hi, it's our Ask Me Anything segment where we answer
Speaker 1: a work-related question that you have sent it to us.
Speaker 1: Please continue to send. I like them. They give me
Speaker 1: very good food for thought and we hope that we
Speaker 1: have helped you a wee bit in your work week.
Speaker 1: Today's question is sent in by Shaan. Now Sean's question
Speaker 1: is about how to ask or get time off to
Speaker 1: go and do interviews when you are juggling an existing job. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm sure many people are interested right now. Well, this
Speaker 1: is especially for interviews where you don't know if you're
Speaker 1: going to be successful and there are multiple rounds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Sean says taking leave for every interview is not feasible,
Speaker 1: especially when you have to save some for other users.
Speaker 1: Is resorting to taking medical leave more recommended or more
Speaker 1: common in the workplace where leave approvals are not required
Speaker 1: or can be requested at the last minute. OK.
Speaker 1: This is a tricky situation, Sean, but how do you
Speaker 1: go for these multiple interviews without raising the question with
Speaker 1: your boss that, hey, you know, this guy is taking
Speaker 1: a lot of leave huh? And also I just want
Speaker 1: to caveat. I'm asking for a friend. OK, OK. Should
Speaker 1: you use medical leave for this? Please don't. Please, please,
Speaker 1: please don't lie. Don't abuse and mistrust because people are
Speaker 1: going to figure out how come you always fall sick
Speaker 1: and you don't really look sick and if it gets
Speaker 1: found out, it's really, really going to look very bad.
Speaker 1: So trust is going to be an issue. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1: So don't don't abuse the benefit of medical leave for
Speaker 1: job interviews. So with that out of the way, then
Speaker 1: how do we get through the multiple rounds of interviews
Speaker 1: if you're not going to use leave? Actually, I feel
Speaker 1: like most of us, we somehow have our own way
Speaker 1: of figuring it out, navigating it so there isn't that
Speaker 1: one fixed answer. Maybe those who are listening, maybe you
Speaker 1: can also drop in your comments on what you have
Speaker 1: done the legit good ones, OK.
Speaker 1: Illegal ones, but one thing is during the interview process,
Speaker 1: it's important for you to ask the recruiter how many
Speaker 1: rounds uh can you expect? sometimes they say 2 to
Speaker 1: 3 rounds and you can have a sense over the
Speaker 1: next couple of weeks, uh, if things go according to
Speaker 1: plan and you get caught up for subsequent rounds, and
Speaker 1: how many days of leave you need to take. You
Speaker 1: might not want to take full day leaves you have
Speaker 1: the option of taking half day, right? You can take
Speaker 1: half days. You could also ask some of these interviews,
Speaker 1: are they online?
Speaker 1: Offline, right, I know some of the people are going
Speaker 1: to wonder, hey, but if you are online and then
Speaker 1: your boss calls you or rather your working hours, isn't
Speaker 1: this like eating into the company policy, you're not being
Speaker 1: a good employee, you taking your time off. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is where the gray area happens. Ideally, the new
Speaker 1: company will be nice enough to ask you to maybe
Speaker 1: come down during lunch hours or after office hours for
Speaker 1: an interview, and that's a possibility as well. If that's
Speaker 1: an option, you can consider it, but as a job seeker, right.
Speaker 1: You're wondering whether the person has eaten lunch. Why should
Speaker 1: you career hungry person interviewing you is not good, it's
Speaker 1: not it's gonna make proper assessment because not enough blood
Speaker 1: sugar to the brain. Yeah, so usually if it was
Speaker 1: up to me, right, I would probably say maybe just
Speaker 1: after lunch hour, then it's for you to impress the
Speaker 1: person to keep the person awake during that time or
Speaker 1: maybe just before lunch, just before that, I think it'll
Speaker 1: be OK, but if it's right smack in lunch hour people.
Speaker 1: Might not like it very much, but I do know
Speaker 1: companies HR and the supervisors are willing to meet people
Speaker 1: during lunchtime. It's possible as well. So if it's outside
Speaker 1: of the lunch hours, you still have to take like
Speaker 1: a half day leave and everything. So you still have
Speaker 1: to pace out, I guess Sean probably has to pace
Speaker 1: out the leave quota that he has because he might
Speaker 1: want to use all the other days to go and
Speaker 1: travel with his family, do his own travels, and things
Speaker 1: like that, right? Yes. Honestly, I don't think it will
Speaker 1: take a lot of leave days, right, unless you're aggressively
Speaker 1: being sought after la. But generally, you know, if you
Speaker 1: are a job search.
Speaker 1: While you're still being employed. The leave days is not
Speaker 1: going to be significantly a lot, honestly speaking. But you
Speaker 1: do need to manage if today you are really saving
Speaker 1: up that leave for other things, then you do need
Speaker 1: to plan a little bit. And what we said earlier,
Speaker 1: asking for the number of days, number of rounds that
Speaker 1: you need to have, that you can do it online,
Speaker 1: can do it after office hours, during lunch breaks. I
Speaker 1: think these are some of the advice that I will
Speaker 1: give that you can try.
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe we'll hear a lot more from
Speaker 1: our listeners in terms of what they have done, what
Speaker 1: are some of the good tips that they can give
Speaker 1: to somebody like Shawn. So yeah, Sean, wish you all
Speaker 1: the best in your job interviews. I hope that you
Speaker 1: don't have to go through that many, many rounds, but
Speaker 1: in a nutshell, don't lie, get creative and you know
Speaker 1: I'm hearing this for the first time, try not to
Speaker 1: do a lunchtime interview, so yeah, let's try and avoid that.
Speaker 1: If like Sean, you have a work-related question, do send
Speaker 1: it to us. We are at CNA podcasts at Mediacorp.com.sg.
Speaker 1: We're also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Me Listen, and YouTube
Speaker 1: where a video version of this is at.
Speaker 1: The team behind the Work It podcast is Junaini Johari,
Speaker 1: Joanne Chan, Saye Win, Allison Jenner, Shahzad Delia, and Christina Robert.
Speaker 1: Video by Hania Ahmed. I'm Gerald and I'm Tiffany. Have
Speaker 1: a good work week ahead and I hope you have
Speaker 1: an understanding boss.