1 00:00:03,150 --> 00:00:05,340 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:11,478 --> 00:00:15,710 Speaker 1: Hi there. It's the Work It podcast with Tiffany and Gerald. Now, recently, 3 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: I was trolling through Reddit and I was having a 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: good laugh, reading about some insane job postings. OK, so 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,870 Speaker 1: for example, there was one looking for a virtual assistant 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,799 Speaker 1: but only pays $1000 a month and the caveat is 7 00:00:29,799 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 1: that you're not allowed to have a side job, which 8 00:00:32,598 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: distracts you from giving this role your 100%. And then 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: there's the issue of fake job list. 10 00:00:38,959 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: Have you heard about that, Gerald? Fake job listings. I'm 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,790 Speaker 1: not talking about a scam kind, right? Yeah, yeah. So 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,990 Speaker 1: what I was them as maybe insincere job postings. They're posted, 13 00:00:49,119 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: they're listed on job portals by the employers are not 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,439 Speaker 1: really genuine about hiring. So sometimes they could be like 15 00:00:54,439 --> 00:00:57,909 Speaker 1: ictitious jobs posted by recruiters just to build a candidate pool, 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: or sometimes they're doing market research on salaries. They could be, 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: you know, companies checking out the market for talent before 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: they decide to relocate here. 19 00:01:05,569 --> 00:01:07,889 Speaker 1: Of, of course, we also know that some companies, they 20 00:01:07,889 --> 00:01:11,139 Speaker 1: just post the job ads for the sake of posting. Yeah, 21 00:01:11,370 --> 00:01:14,239 Speaker 1: because they already pre-identified somebody already and they're letting the 22 00:01:14,410 --> 00:01:16,290 Speaker 1: posting go up there. So in fact, I think a 23 00:01:16,290 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: survey by resume builder, there's a career site, they said 24 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,769 Speaker 1: as many as 4 in 10 companies said that. 25 00:01:22,029 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: a fake job listing. This is something that I'm sure 26 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,209 Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners out there would be very 27 00:01:26,209 --> 00:01:29,149 Speaker 1: keen to know how do we differentiate between a job 28 00:01:29,150 --> 00:01:32,190 Speaker 1: posting that is sincere and one that is just there 29 00:01:32,190 --> 00:01:35,349 Speaker 1: to collect resumes or collect information. So what are some 30 00:01:35,349 --> 00:01:37,069 Speaker 1: red flags that we can look up for when we 31 00:01:37,069 --> 00:01:38,129 Speaker 1: read job descriptions. 32 00:01:38,699 --> 00:01:40,488 Speaker 1: So we are very happy to have in the studio 33 00:01:40,489 --> 00:01:43,809 Speaker 1: with us Han Lee, he is director of executive search 34 00:01:43,809 --> 00:01:47,569 Speaker 1: from Lio Resources, and he's here to give us some tips. Welcome. Hi, 35 00:01:47,690 --> 00:01:48,519 Speaker 2: good morning, everyone. 36 00:01:48,730 --> 00:01:51,519 Speaker 1: So Han, I want to ask you, have you encountered 37 00:01:51,519 --> 00:01:54,489 Speaker 1: any of these kind of absurd job listings before in 38 00:01:54,489 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: your line of work? 39 00:01:55,610 --> 00:01:57,839 Speaker 2: Of course, I've seen it many times actually. I mean, 40 00:01:58,010 --> 00:02:00,529 Speaker 2: our job of online is really read the job description 41 00:02:00,529 --> 00:02:02,769 Speaker 2: from a clients or so and sometimes you have to 42 00:02:04,089 --> 00:02:06,339 Speaker 2: Really stop yourself from having a laugh, you know, like 43 00:02:06,339 --> 00:02:08,779 Speaker 2: I wrote about the poster a few weeks ago, talk about. 44 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: When I see the job description, I was asking myself, right, 45 00:02:12,059 --> 00:02:14,119 Speaker 2: is this for real? How am I going to find 46 00:02:14,119 --> 00:02:16,199 Speaker 2: someone for these clients when you look at the job 47 00:02:16,199 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: description like that. So it's not so much of a scammer. 48 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,050 Speaker 2: I think a lot of time it's a wish list 49 00:02:21,050 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: they want to have for this perfect candidate and I 50 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,199 Speaker 2: think underneath they also know that it's probably not going 51 00:02:27,199 --> 00:02:30,559 Speaker 2: to happen, but it's more like trying to cast a 52 00:02:30,559 --> 00:02:33,729 Speaker 2: wider net, attracting more people to apply for the job, 53 00:02:33,758 --> 00:02:37,119 Speaker 2: but I think most of the time it's probably counter 54 00:02:37,119 --> 00:02:37,940 Speaker 2: effective because 55 00:02:38,419 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: The great candidates might be looking at a job description 56 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,029 Speaker 2: thinking that hey, I only take like 70% of the boxes, 57 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,758 Speaker 2: but I don't want to fail myself for a job, right? 58 00:02:46,809 --> 00:02:48,478 Speaker 2: So I don't apply because I don't have the rest 59 00:02:48,479 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 2: of the 30%. But the reality is that 30% can 60 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,839 Speaker 2: be just a good to have. But in job description, 61 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:56,839 Speaker 2: you don't really list it in the way that this 62 00:02:56,839 --> 00:02:58,559 Speaker 2: is the one I must have, this is the one 63 00:02:58,559 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: I'm really just OK. 64 00:03:00,574 --> 00:03:03,005 Speaker 2: To not have, right? So that's becoming a problem for 65 00:03:03,005 --> 00:03:04,244 Speaker 2: the job description. Yeah, 66 00:03:04,365 --> 00:03:04,445 Speaker 1: yeah, 67 00:03:04,565 --> 00:03:06,524 Speaker 1: I agree, nobody puts up a section that says this 68 00:03:06,524 --> 00:03:09,464 Speaker 1: is a must have and then the nice to have. 69 00:03:10,163 --> 00:03:12,524 Speaker 1: Sometimes I think to myself, there's no way I'm going 70 00:03:12,524 --> 00:03:15,804 Speaker 1: to be able to hit maybe even 50% of what 71 00:03:15,804 --> 00:03:17,625 Speaker 1: they are asking for because they always like I want 72 00:03:17,625 --> 00:03:21,684 Speaker 1: an individual who is a creative, who takes initiative, but 73 00:03:21,684 --> 00:03:22,704 Speaker 1: at the end of the day it's like 74 00:03:23,050 --> 00:03:25,490 Speaker 1: How do I measure that you are a person who 75 00:03:25,490 --> 00:03:27,529 Speaker 1: is there, and if I'm the person who is applying 76 00:03:27,529 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: for the job, I'll be like, yeah, I can do this, 77 00:03:29,869 --> 00:03:32,130 Speaker 1: or some people might say, oh no, I'm not sure 78 00:03:32,130 --> 00:03:34,770 Speaker 1: if I am creative enough for you, or I'm not 79 00:03:34,770 --> 00:03:36,729 Speaker 1: sure what you mean by take initiative. So I think 80 00:03:36,729 --> 00:03:39,649 Speaker 1: some of these lingo or the jargon that they put 81 00:03:39,649 --> 00:03:42,009 Speaker 1: on the job postings may not be very realistic or 82 00:03:42,009 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: may actually be a barrier to entry. 83 00:03:44,050 --> 00:03:45,770 Speaker 2: I think Tiffany are being very kind. I mean the 84 00:03:45,770 --> 00:03:49,009 Speaker 2: real example, I was writing that article, the job description 85 00:03:49,009 --> 00:03:50,270 Speaker 2: sitting in front of me saying that 86 00:03:50,490 --> 00:03:56,309 Speaker 2: We're looking for someone with strategic view and detail oriented. 87 00:03:56,839 --> 00:03:59,479 Speaker 2: But how is it going to happen? I'm very strategic, 88 00:03:59,630 --> 00:04:02,070 Speaker 2: giving an overview direction or so, but at the same time, 89 00:04:02,110 --> 00:04:06,190 Speaker 2: a very detail-oriented person. You're looking for two personalities in 90 00:04:06,190 --> 00:04:11,199 Speaker 2: one person. So how? I've never met somebody and yet 91 00:04:11,199 --> 00:04:13,550 Speaker 2: these are the things that you often see in the 92 00:04:13,550 --> 00:04:15,990 Speaker 2: job description. So you will be asking yourself, should I 93 00:04:15,990 --> 00:04:18,829 Speaker 2: or should I not? I may be detail oriented, but 94 00:04:18,829 --> 00:04:20,109 Speaker 2: I certainly not a strategic view. 95 00:04:20,248 --> 00:04:23,398 Speaker 2: At the same time. So when a company put the 96 00:04:23,398 --> 00:04:26,519 Speaker 2: words like this, whether it's by default, they write something 97 00:04:26,519 --> 00:04:30,699 Speaker 2: or because of AI generated, they are ineffectively driving certain 98 00:04:30,699 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 2: candidates away and the reality is good candidates always have 99 00:04:35,039 --> 00:04:38,419 Speaker 2: great expectation for themselves. You will come across a candidate 100 00:04:38,419 --> 00:04:39,998 Speaker 2: who is really good at what they do and they 101 00:04:39,998 --> 00:04:42,998 Speaker 2: want to set themselves for success. They will not apply 102 00:04:42,998 --> 00:04:45,118 Speaker 2: for any job, they will not walk into any job 103 00:04:45,118 --> 00:04:46,859 Speaker 2: when they think that I'm not going to make it. 104 00:04:47,398 --> 00:04:49,979 Speaker 2: So then those applying to you are 105 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 2: Maybe just mediocre, maybe in the situation of wanting just 106 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,988 Speaker 2: a job. So a good job description will make wonders 107 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,558 Speaker 2: for you if you are an employer looking to hire 108 00:05:00,559 --> 00:05:03,390 Speaker 2: people right now. So don't just outsource this to AI. 109 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: They can help you to maybe do a certain draft 110 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 2: or so, but you need to really verify it. 111 00:05:08,238 --> 00:05:11,500 Speaker 2: And most of the time in enterprise situation, the hiring 112 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:14,489 Speaker 2: manager who is hiring for that position may be the 113 00:05:14,488 --> 00:05:17,649 Speaker 2: one who's driving it or writing the job description, but 114 00:05:17,649 --> 00:05:20,290 Speaker 2: sometimes it is actually the HR who is doing the 115 00:05:20,290 --> 00:05:22,690 Speaker 2: work for them because the hiring manager may be too 116 00:05:22,690 --> 00:05:25,690 Speaker 2: busy or whatever. So our suggestion is always you want 117 00:05:25,690 --> 00:05:28,089 Speaker 2: to make sure that's right, the combination because HR has 118 00:05:28,089 --> 00:05:31,769 Speaker 2: the expertise in our case it's like massaging the job description, 119 00:05:31,809 --> 00:05:33,809 Speaker 2: the first draft may be from the hiring manager and 120 00:05:33,809 --> 00:05:35,940 Speaker 2: HR can massage it more palatable. 121 00:05:36,355 --> 00:05:38,515 Speaker 2: To the readers or so, but don't just let either 122 00:05:38,515 --> 00:05:40,303 Speaker 2: one of those just do the work, it will never 123 00:05:40,303 --> 00:05:41,904 Speaker 2: really work, in my opinion. 124 00:05:42,274 --> 00:05:44,875 Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about the unofficial 125 00:05:44,875 --> 00:05:47,915 Speaker 1: translation guide that you actually wrote in terms of the 126 00:05:47,915 --> 00:05:50,195 Speaker 1: job description. I'm asking because when I look at the 127 00:05:50,195 --> 00:05:52,915 Speaker 1: job description, sometimes even when I'm told, please write a 128 00:05:52,915 --> 00:05:55,674 Speaker 1: job description for this role that we would like to 129 00:05:55,674 --> 00:05:58,345 Speaker 1: hire for your team, and I'm just like, I don't know. 130 00:05:58,553 --> 00:06:03,154 Speaker 1: So for example, when somebody says fast-paced environment, what does 131 00:06:03,154 --> 00:06:03,704 Speaker 1: that mean? 132 00:06:05,019 --> 00:06:08,140 Speaker 2: Well, OK, I, I can be wrong, but I've been 133 00:06:08,140 --> 00:06:10,058 Speaker 2: doing this a lot, right? And I will tell the 134 00:06:10,059 --> 00:06:12,179 Speaker 2: client the same thing. When you write fast pace, you're 135 00:06:12,178 --> 00:06:15,450 Speaker 2: literally telling people that you're shorthanded, you don't have enough people, 136 00:06:15,779 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 2: so you get people to do faster. 137 00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:20,540 Speaker 1: That's true, that's probably what I'll write in there as well. 138 00:06:20,700 --> 00:06:23,260 Speaker 1: I guess I just want to cover a bit of 139 00:06:23,260 --> 00:06:26,130 Speaker 1: my basis, you know, making sure that people are clear. 140 00:06:26,230 --> 00:06:28,859 Speaker 1: But I also don't see, I mean, what would they 141 00:06:28,859 --> 00:06:29,790 Speaker 1: say if they don't say. 142 00:06:31,510 --> 00:06:36,130 Speaker 1: Yeah, normal pace. We are normal pace. Every company these days, 143 00:06:36,209 --> 00:06:39,450 Speaker 1: you see, you expect to see fast pace in the 144 00:06:39,450 --> 00:06:40,450 Speaker 1: first or the last line. 145 00:06:40,570 --> 00:06:41,970 Speaker 2: So that's the first thing I tell my client. You 146 00:06:41,970 --> 00:06:44,970 Speaker 2: put fast-paced candidates, look at this. Then what do you expect? 147 00:06:45,089 --> 00:06:46,890 Speaker 2: You want to lose some candidates. You write a job 148 00:06:46,890 --> 00:06:50,850 Speaker 2: description trying to attract more candidates, right? So it's counterintuitive, 149 00:06:50,928 --> 00:06:51,410 Speaker 2: so why do you put 150 00:06:51,410 --> 00:06:51,609 Speaker 1: it in. 151 00:06:52,755 --> 00:06:55,024 Speaker 1: About the people who are slower paced, you know what 152 00:06:55,024 --> 00:06:58,325 Speaker 1: I mean? Like they're naturally used to the chill vibes. 153 00:06:58,945 --> 00:07:02,933 Speaker 2: I don't know, Tiffany I'm not a very fast person, 154 00:07:03,105 --> 00:07:05,375 Speaker 2: when I see the fast pace, would I still click yes, 155 00:07:05,744 --> 00:07:06,665 Speaker 2: depending on my situation, 156 00:07:07,165 --> 00:07:09,674 Speaker 1: buyers beware, right? Then I'm telling you that I already 157 00:07:09,674 --> 00:07:11,704 Speaker 1: told you this is a very fast-paced environment, so when 158 00:07:11,704 --> 00:07:13,984 Speaker 1: you come and join me, don't be a snail about this. 159 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,029 Speaker 1: Um, see, I would write that in the job description 160 00:07:18,029 --> 00:07:19,290 Speaker 1: so I can see about people. 161 00:07:19,369 --> 00:07:22,089 Speaker 2: There's a valid point there, but I think the reality 162 00:07:22,089 --> 00:07:24,929 Speaker 2: is out of 100 applicants, if you can get 5 163 00:07:24,929 --> 00:07:27,410 Speaker 2: people out of the 100, you consider yourself lucky. But 164 00:07:27,410 --> 00:07:30,290 Speaker 2: you're right, like the fast pace then some 165 00:07:30,290 --> 00:07:32,250 Speaker 1: competitive salary. Tell me what does that 166 00:07:32,250 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: mean? 167 00:07:33,089 --> 00:07:35,750 Speaker 2: In my version, that means I can't pay you good enough, 168 00:07:35,809 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: so I'm just only competitive in a sense. 169 00:07:40,290 --> 00:07:41,250 Speaker 1: I mean I might pay you like lower 170 00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:41,809 Speaker 1: than average. 171 00:07:41,890 --> 00:07:43,730 Speaker 2: I might pay you lower than average. 172 00:07:43,812 --> 00:07:46,191 Speaker 2: Or at the best, I pay you just market average. 173 00:07:46,282 --> 00:07:48,312 Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm the best paymaster in the market, 174 00:07:48,481 --> 00:07:50,601 Speaker 2: why would I put it there? You know, it's just 175 00:07:50,601 --> 00:07:53,842 Speaker 2: unnecessary and it's not a selling point. People think that 176 00:07:53,842 --> 00:07:55,881 Speaker 2: competitive salary is a selling point. I can't 177 00:07:55,881 --> 00:07:58,291 Speaker 1: see it. OK, we get this a lot as well, self-starter, 178 00:07:59,361 --> 00:08:04,231 Speaker 1: like the sourdough. What does self-starter even mean? right? at 179 00:08:04,231 --> 00:08:04,902 Speaker 1: the right if you feed me 180 00:08:04,902 --> 00:08:05,851 Speaker 1: well, meaning 181 00:08:05,851 --> 00:08:08,002 Speaker 2: that's right, you come on board the first day, go 182 00:08:08,002 --> 00:08:10,041 Speaker 2: bring me the revenue or whatever things I get you 183 00:08:10,041 --> 00:08:11,962 Speaker 2: to do. So effectively telling the candidate. 184 00:08:12,204 --> 00:08:14,194 Speaker 2: need to grab it all by yourself. I don't have 185 00:08:14,194 --> 00:08:16,683 Speaker 2: enough time to train you and then you have to 186 00:08:16,683 --> 00:08:19,114 Speaker 2: rely on yourself to do that. That's a self-starter in 187 00:08:19,114 --> 00:08:21,084 Speaker 2: my opinion, like what you say is Shad, right? You 188 00:08:21,084 --> 00:08:23,194 Speaker 2: leave it there for you to do whatever works. I'm 189 00:08:23,194 --> 00:08:25,234 Speaker 2: not there to teach you. If not, then my selling 190 00:08:25,234 --> 00:08:28,664 Speaker 2: point will be we have the effective training system set up. 191 00:08:28,993 --> 00:08:31,243 Speaker 2: We have the guidance systems, that is a selling point. 192 00:08:31,394 --> 00:08:34,554 Speaker 2: Self-starter is not a selling point. It's quite the other 193 00:08:34,554 --> 00:08:35,012 Speaker 2: way around. 194 00:08:35,234 --> 00:08:39,153 Speaker 1: Last one, things like 5+ years of experience or 7+ 195 00:08:39,153 --> 00:08:40,304 Speaker 1: years of experience. 196 00:08:40,596 --> 00:08:43,736 Speaker 1: Is it true? Do I really need exactly what they say? 197 00:08:44,026 --> 00:08:46,786 Speaker 2: The short answer is no. You don't really have to 198 00:08:46,785 --> 00:08:49,425 Speaker 2: be 100%. And you talk to any headhunters out there, 199 00:08:49,546 --> 00:08:51,585 Speaker 2: the first thing that we do when we talk to 200 00:08:51,585 --> 00:08:54,026 Speaker 2: the clients is to take the job description and then 201 00:08:54,026 --> 00:08:56,435 Speaker 2: strike it back. My question to my clients would be, 202 00:08:56,505 --> 00:08:59,954 Speaker 2: so what is absolutely necessary here? What is good to have? 203 00:09:00,065 --> 00:09:02,935 Speaker 2: That is a rookie 101 for all the recruiters really, 204 00:09:03,026 --> 00:09:05,705 Speaker 2: because everybody knows that the job description is a wish 205 00:09:05,705 --> 00:09:08,906 Speaker 2: list because you know there is no 100% perfect candidate. 206 00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:11,289 Speaker 2: So if you look at the job description, you see 207 00:09:11,289 --> 00:09:14,609 Speaker 2: that you have about 60 or 70% that can fit 208 00:09:14,609 --> 00:09:17,369 Speaker 2: into this job doing what they do so just apply, 209 00:09:17,460 --> 00:09:21,449 Speaker 2: go ahead, because like chances are the rest of the 30%, 40% 210 00:09:21,450 --> 00:09:23,690 Speaker 2: that you don't have is just good to have. And 211 00:09:23,690 --> 00:09:25,770 Speaker 2: I can say for most of the companies, they will 212 00:09:25,770 --> 00:09:28,650 Speaker 2: be willing to train and guide certain people. I don't 213 00:09:28,650 --> 00:09:30,530 Speaker 2: think they are in a fairy tale land and thinking 214 00:09:30,530 --> 00:09:32,729 Speaker 2: about always get the 100% candidates, they don't. 215 00:09:33,049 --> 00:09:34,780 Speaker 2: But I also think most of the clients they are 216 00:09:34,780 --> 00:09:38,219 Speaker 2: not ready to just take on anyone without the essential 217 00:09:38,219 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: skill set that they need for that particular job. So 218 00:09:41,460 --> 00:09:43,780 Speaker 2: the short answer is yes, just go and apply if 219 00:09:43,780 --> 00:09:47,500 Speaker 2: you think that you've 70%, 60% matching of the job description, 220 00:09:47,539 --> 00:09:48,329 Speaker 2: you're fine to go. 221 00:09:49,380 --> 00:09:51,619 Speaker 1: So far we've been talking about the job description, the 222 00:09:51,619 --> 00:09:55,218 Speaker 1: way it's worded, it alienates some deserving candidates from applying, right? 223 00:09:55,299 --> 00:09:57,968 Speaker 1: But at least the employee is still sincere about hiring, 224 00:09:58,020 --> 00:10:01,130 Speaker 1: so they write a really unrealistic job description. How about 225 00:10:01,130 --> 00:10:03,689 Speaker 1: job descriptions that are not sincere about hiring, you know, 226 00:10:03,770 --> 00:10:07,530 Speaker 1: they are just there to collect information because I've heard 227 00:10:07,530 --> 00:10:10,250 Speaker 1: for many individuals, many clients when they apply for a job, 228 00:10:10,289 --> 00:10:11,929 Speaker 1: they don't even know whether it's real. They said, you know, 229 00:10:11,969 --> 00:10:14,729 Speaker 1: I applied, there's no reply, and I keep seeing this 230 00:10:14,729 --> 00:10:17,489 Speaker 1: job being posted over and over again, right? 231 00:10:17,659 --> 00:10:20,799 Speaker 1: So there's a possibility that they haven't found a perfect candidate, right? 232 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,789 Speaker 1: There's also a possibility that they are just there collecting information. 233 00:10:24,119 --> 00:10:26,478 Speaker 1: I don't understand this collecting resumes. What does that mean? 234 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: Why do companies do that? Well, 235 00:10:28,719 --> 00:10:30,848 Speaker 2: I think there are many reasons why the company will 236 00:10:30,849 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: want to collect the resume. One, it's probably because the 237 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,598 Speaker 2: headcount is not there yet, but they want to start 238 00:10:37,599 --> 00:10:39,630 Speaker 2: collecting now and when the headcount is ready, 239 00:10:39,979 --> 00:10:42,799 Speaker 2: They can start interviewing. A lot of time they interview 240 00:10:42,799 --> 00:10:46,010 Speaker 2: even before the headcount is granted because they think that 241 00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:48,729 Speaker 2: they will get the headcount. So then I start interviewing, 242 00:10:48,770 --> 00:10:51,809 Speaker 2: I will start running all the necessities and I've even 243 00:10:51,809 --> 00:10:54,049 Speaker 2: come across a situation that, OK, this is the candidate 244 00:10:54,049 --> 00:10:55,169 Speaker 2: we want to hire, but we can't. 245 00:10:55,270 --> 00:10:58,488 Speaker 2: Do it now because the headcount is only ready in July. 246 00:10:58,700 --> 00:10:59,039 Speaker 1: Were they 247 00:10:59,039 --> 00:11:00,179 Speaker 1: very upfront with the 248 00:11:00,179 --> 00:11:00,630 Speaker 1: candidate? 249 00:11:00,909 --> 00:11:04,820 Speaker 2: Um sometimes yes. Unfortunately, sometimes no, but you see, in 250 00:11:04,820 --> 00:11:07,940 Speaker 2: a legitimate situation where a company genuinely wanted to do 251 00:11:07,940 --> 00:11:10,409 Speaker 2: it right, there are ways to overcome this, for example, 252 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: If now is May, my headcount is only ready in July. 253 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,799 Speaker 2: I will give you an offer letter right now, but 254 00:11:15,799 --> 00:11:18,598 Speaker 2: it only starts from July onwards, because some organizations, they 255 00:11:18,599 --> 00:11:20,919 Speaker 2: are very strict in their headcount planning, which is nothing 256 00:11:20,919 --> 00:11:22,429 Speaker 2: wrong with it. Yeah, because it could be a new 257 00:11:22,429 --> 00:11:25,119 Speaker 2: financial year, absolutely new financial year, and I will not 258 00:11:25,119 --> 00:11:27,718 Speaker 2: warrant anything before that or so, but I'm legitimate in 259 00:11:27,719 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 2: having this headcount right now. So that's OK. But there 260 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: are times like what you mentioned, people just wanting to 261 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,150 Speaker 2: get their resume to understand what's going on in the market. Worst, 262 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:39,530 Speaker 2: you are actually 263 00:11:39,585 --> 00:11:42,603 Speaker 2: Interviewing candidates trying to get a market info for your 264 00:11:42,604 --> 00:11:45,715 Speaker 2: business purposes, but you have no intention to hire people. 265 00:11:46,125 --> 00:11:48,765 Speaker 2: That is real. The listeners can't see your face, Tiffany, 266 00:11:48,844 --> 00:11:49,604 Speaker 2: but I know my 267 00:11:49,604 --> 00:11:52,843 Speaker 1: eyes are wide open and Gerald is like, yeah, I've 268 00:11:52,844 --> 00:11:55,603 Speaker 1: heard of these unscrupulous means, but that's terrible. 269 00:11:55,854 --> 00:12:00,364 Speaker 2: Yes, unfortunately. I even come across the clients asking for 270 00:12:00,364 --> 00:12:03,853 Speaker 2: the client list from the candidate and then just never 271 00:12:03,854 --> 00:12:06,044 Speaker 2: hear from them again. I mean, there are people like that, 272 00:12:06,125 --> 00:12:08,325 Speaker 2: so it is true that as a job seeker, 273 00:12:08,809 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: You probably want to be a little bit more careful 274 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,090 Speaker 2: about what you encounter, but to answer to Gerald's question, 275 00:12:15,210 --> 00:12:18,260 Speaker 2: how do I see from a job description alone is 276 00:12:18,260 --> 00:12:22,169 Speaker 2: it possible? It's difficult, but there are common things that 277 00:12:22,169 --> 00:12:24,809 Speaker 2: maybe you can look at for examples. If a job 278 00:12:24,809 --> 00:12:28,169 Speaker 2: descriptions are all about telling you all the benefits about 279 00:12:28,169 --> 00:12:31,609 Speaker 2: an organization, or culture are great, we have a morning 280 00:12:31,609 --> 00:12:35,349 Speaker 2: yoga classes with the free, I don't know, smoothies or whatever, 281 00:12:35,450 --> 00:12:38,260 Speaker 2: but it's very little about the actual job and 282 00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:41,049 Speaker 2: I will ask myself, right, and is this for real? 283 00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: company hire you, pay you the money for the content 284 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,650 Speaker 2: they're going to produce for them, not to get you 285 00:12:46,650 --> 00:12:49,729 Speaker 2: to enjoy the yoga in the morning. I find it 286 00:12:49,729 --> 00:12:52,530 Speaker 2: quite funny. But then that's one. So there are certain 287 00:12:52,530 --> 00:12:55,689 Speaker 2: cases where the company says in the job description that 288 00:12:55,690 --> 00:12:59,409 Speaker 2: the role may evolve when the company grow. What does 289 00:12:59,409 --> 00:13:02,250 Speaker 2: that mean? Yeah, I mean when you're a startup situation, 290 00:13:02,359 --> 00:13:03,140 Speaker 2: you're really in 291 00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:05,939 Speaker 2: The growing mode, maybe you just get a funding from 292 00:13:05,940 --> 00:13:08,409 Speaker 2: a VC or so you just hire the right talent, 293 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:11,358 Speaker 2: then there are many positions that you can actually allocate 294 00:13:11,359 --> 00:13:15,219 Speaker 2: them to. So that's real. But in other circumstances, if 295 00:13:15,219 --> 00:13:17,659 Speaker 2: you come across a phrase like this in the company 296 00:13:17,659 --> 00:13:20,380 Speaker 2: that doesn't associate to this situation, you ask yourself, what 297 00:13:20,380 --> 00:13:23,940 Speaker 2: does it mean really? So you're hiring people with any 298 00:13:23,940 --> 00:13:26,380 Speaker 2: potential walk into any role itself, right? That is a 299 00:13:26,380 --> 00:13:27,500 Speaker 2: big question mark to me. 300 00:13:28,020 --> 00:13:31,650 Speaker 2: Another example can be the company say we're hiring across 301 00:13:31,650 --> 00:13:35,919 Speaker 2: multiple levels and we will match based on your experience. 302 00:13:36,090 --> 00:13:38,890 Speaker 2: What does it mean really? So a real example, a 303 00:13:38,890 --> 00:13:43,049 Speaker 2: candidates walk into the interview for a sales director position 304 00:13:43,049 --> 00:13:46,869 Speaker 2: and then the company asking all those questions about sales strategy, 305 00:13:46,989 --> 00:13:50,010 Speaker 2: your go to market, a typical question for a sales 306 00:13:50,010 --> 00:13:52,968 Speaker 2: director and at the end of it, they are thinking about, 307 00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: oh we might just need a sales manager. Are you open? 308 00:13:56,666 --> 00:13:59,697 Speaker 2: To consider if it is a sales manager position, then 309 00:13:59,697 --> 00:14:02,256 Speaker 2: you will be asking yourself, is it even possible for 310 00:14:02,256 --> 00:14:05,817 Speaker 2: a company to eye for a sales director, but they 311 00:14:05,817 --> 00:14:08,617 Speaker 2: are actually thinking that I might just need a sales manager. 312 00:14:08,856 --> 00:14:10,976 Speaker 1: But could it be that through the interview, they feel 313 00:14:10,976 --> 00:14:14,137 Speaker 1: that your skills and competencies are not there yet for 314 00:14:14,136 --> 00:14:16,937 Speaker 1: a sales director, but they still like you because you 315 00:14:16,937 --> 00:14:19,377 Speaker 1: have good attitude. So they would like to create a 316 00:14:19,377 --> 00:14:21,536 Speaker 1: position or there could be an open position just that 317 00:14:21,536 --> 00:14:23,617 Speaker 1: you applied for the sales director role. Sure, 318 00:14:23,656 --> 00:14:25,267 Speaker 2: absolutely, that happens. So in the 319 00:14:25,504 --> 00:14:27,864 Speaker 2: situation where I still like you, but I don't think 320 00:14:27,864 --> 00:14:29,343 Speaker 2: you're a sales director level 321 00:14:29,343 --> 00:14:29,664 Speaker 2: yet, 322 00:14:29,783 --> 00:14:31,544 Speaker 1: but we can try and push you 323 00:14:31,544 --> 00:14:33,424 Speaker 2: in the sales manager, then you can show to us 324 00:14:33,424 --> 00:14:35,703 Speaker 2: that you are actually able to become a sales director. 325 00:14:35,934 --> 00:14:39,294 Speaker 2: It's a different story compared to with a multiple position, 326 00:14:39,504 --> 00:14:42,093 Speaker 2: we might consider based on your experience. In my opinion, 327 00:14:42,304 --> 00:14:46,104 Speaker 2: typically organizations don't do that. You don't think about, I'm 328 00:14:46,104 --> 00:14:49,223 Speaker 2: actually having these two positions, I'm toying about what could 329 00:14:49,223 --> 00:14:52,143 Speaker 2: be the possibilities. It's very unlikely. Most of the time 330 00:14:52,143 --> 00:14:53,823 Speaker 2: you get your headcount ready, you have a go. 331 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,500 Speaker 2: to market strategy already have the account set up. For 332 00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:59,991 Speaker 2: anyone to come across such a situation, you need to 333 00:14:59,991 --> 00:15:01,890 Speaker 2: be careful because it can be a situation that we 334 00:15:01,890 --> 00:15:04,750 Speaker 2: want to bait you into a certain position, but we 335 00:15:04,750 --> 00:15:08,281 Speaker 2: are trying our luck. Remember, when you are selling yourself 336 00:15:08,281 --> 00:15:11,270 Speaker 2: to a potential job opportunity, most of the time the 337 00:15:11,270 --> 00:15:15,231 Speaker 2: organization is also trying to sell to you the opportunity. 338 00:15:15,370 --> 00:15:17,911 Speaker 2: They may be thinking, hey, if I just say I'm 339 00:15:17,911 --> 00:15:20,181 Speaker 2: hiring a sales manager, I might not have a chance 340 00:15:20,181 --> 00:15:22,471 Speaker 2: to meet this candidate because they won't apply. 341 00:15:22,809 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 2: So why don't I try my luck? I invite this 342 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,130 Speaker 2: person to come in and then see whether I can 343 00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:29,919 Speaker 2: charm them in the way or so. It's not like 344 00:15:29,919 --> 00:15:31,630 Speaker 2: you can't do that, but if we can be a 345 00:15:31,630 --> 00:15:33,599 Speaker 2: little bit more transparent, this is one of them that 346 00:15:33,599 --> 00:15:36,030 Speaker 2: usually done by the organization. 347 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:37,919 Speaker 1: I think the baiting part of it. I think it 348 00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:40,250 Speaker 1: does happen quite often. I think we talked about this before, 349 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,830 Speaker 1: getting lowballed into a job, right? You apply for something 350 00:15:42,830 --> 00:15:44,809 Speaker 1: but you're told like actually, you know, it's not really 351 00:15:44,809 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: that thing. You are more suitable for another role, lower pay, 352 00:15:47,479 --> 00:15:48,929 Speaker 1: lower responsibilities, and then 353 00:15:49,299 --> 00:15:52,820 Speaker 1: Because you feel like you're already there and the company 354 00:15:52,820 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: feels they already pitched to you, they're more likely to 355 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,580 Speaker 1: accept it from the company's perspective. Why they want to 356 00:15:57,580 --> 00:16:00,500 Speaker 1: do that is they want to attract high caliber candidates, 357 00:16:00,710 --> 00:16:03,820 Speaker 1: but in reality, they want them to do slightly lower 358 00:16:03,820 --> 00:16:05,900 Speaker 1: on a role with less responsibilities at a lower pay. 359 00:16:06,580 --> 00:16:10,219 Speaker 1: I brought at this point because I know somebody, he 360 00:16:10,219 --> 00:16:13,460 Speaker 1: saw a job listing for like a department head. They 361 00:16:13,460 --> 00:16:15,729 Speaker 1: were going to create a new department in this company. 362 00:16:15,940 --> 00:16:18,500 Speaker 1: He saw the job listing, he applied for it knowing. 363 00:16:18,750 --> 00:16:21,299 Speaker 1: That he didn't have the skills to do it, but 364 00:16:21,299 --> 00:16:24,159 Speaker 1: he really wanted to join the company and during the interview, 365 00:16:24,460 --> 00:16:26,700 Speaker 1: after maybe about a good half an hour, they did 366 00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:29,500 Speaker 1: tell him, look, you and I both know that you're 367 00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:32,059 Speaker 1: not at that skill competency yet. They were very upfront 368 00:16:32,059 --> 00:16:35,020 Speaker 1: with him and said, actually we would really like to 369 00:16:35,020 --> 00:16:37,940 Speaker 1: hire you but not at this job position. 370 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: So in that case, would you mind waiting until we 371 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: basically hire your boss? And this person was like, yeah, 372 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:46,909 Speaker 1: I don't mind waiting because I really like your company 373 00:16:46,909 --> 00:16:49,799 Speaker 1: and I would like to work for you. So he 374 00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:52,450 Speaker 1: signed an offer letter and waited for about 4 months. 375 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,359 Speaker 1: Eventually did it work out? It did work out, but 376 00:16:55,359 --> 00:16:57,820 Speaker 1: it all sounded pretty scammy to me at that point 377 00:16:57,820 --> 00:17:00,599 Speaker 1: of time with me just thinking now having this conversation, 378 00:17:00,679 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking. 379 00:17:01,393 --> 00:17:04,782 Speaker 1: To myself, I'll be like, please do not sign that 380 00:17:04,782 --> 00:17:06,942 Speaker 1: contract because we don't know. 4 months later what's going 381 00:17:06,942 --> 00:17:09,262 Speaker 1: to happen, right? But I think in this particular case, 382 00:17:09,463 --> 00:17:11,052 Speaker 1: it kind of worked out and I'm sure like when 383 00:17:11,052 --> 00:17:13,061 Speaker 1: there are new departments, new teams formed, there's going to 384 00:17:13,061 --> 00:17:16,262 Speaker 1: be multiple positions. If the employers up front and sincere 385 00:17:16,262 --> 00:17:18,623 Speaker 1: about it, it's still not so bad, right? But they 386 00:17:18,623 --> 00:17:21,463 Speaker 1: can go the other way where the company didn't have 387 00:17:21,463 --> 00:17:23,941 Speaker 1: any intention of hiring so many and they're just trying 388 00:17:23,942 --> 00:17:24,422 Speaker 1: to bid you. 389 00:17:24,536 --> 00:17:27,406 Speaker 1: So that's a totally different intentions altogether. So I think 390 00:17:27,406 --> 00:17:30,645 Speaker 1: going in also knowing that you're not desperate for this 391 00:17:30,645 --> 00:17:32,485 Speaker 1: allows you to go, you know, can I wait 4 months. 392 00:17:32,526 --> 00:17:33,845 Speaker 1: If I cannot wait 4 months, then I'm going to 393 00:17:33,845 --> 00:17:36,645 Speaker 1: go and find something else. But didn't know that it's 394 00:17:36,645 --> 00:17:37,465 Speaker 1: going to be 4 months as well, 395 00:17:40,186 --> 00:17:42,125 Speaker 2: right? But in the case of your friend Tiffany, if 396 00:17:42,125 --> 00:17:44,365 Speaker 2: I'm the one talking to your friend, I'll be telling 397 00:17:44,365 --> 00:17:46,406 Speaker 2: your friend that you still need to be a little 398 00:17:46,406 --> 00:17:47,526 Speaker 2: bit careful one. 399 00:17:48,050 --> 00:17:50,469 Speaker 2: You really don't know what's going to happen. You don't 400 00:17:50,469 --> 00:17:53,149 Speaker 2: know who is going to be your future boss, someone 401 00:17:53,150 --> 00:17:55,260 Speaker 2: you might or might not like, that is the period 402 00:17:55,260 --> 00:17:57,750 Speaker 2: of gap here, then you just wait. That means that 403 00:17:57,750 --> 00:18:00,229 Speaker 2: 4 month period of time, you can't do anything. So 404 00:18:00,229 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 2: it's a commitment from the candidate that you surrender. 405 00:18:03,354 --> 00:18:06,625 Speaker 2: control in the process. There's nothing much you can do. 406 00:18:06,885 --> 00:18:09,765 Speaker 2: Whereas from the employer's perspective, there are a lot of 407 00:18:09,765 --> 00:18:12,004 Speaker 2: things that they can do. I'm actually secure commitment from 408 00:18:12,005 --> 00:18:14,964 Speaker 2: a candidate, so it's only one side winning, not the 409 00:18:14,964 --> 00:18:18,204 Speaker 2: win-win situation that most of the time we're trying to achieve. 410 00:18:18,579 --> 00:18:21,129 Speaker 2: In this case, I mean, it's the legitimate case, but 411 00:18:21,130 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 2: it's just very dangerous case for the candidates. 412 00:18:24,050 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: If let's say I know that this job listing is 413 00:18:27,770 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: not real, the kind that I've gone for the interview 414 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,250 Speaker 1: and I know they're not very sincere in listing and 415 00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:35,109 Speaker 1: then I go back to let's say LinkedIn or all 416 00:18:35,109 --> 00:18:37,810 Speaker 1: the job portals and I keep seeing the same listing 417 00:18:37,810 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: over and over again. Is there something that I can do? 418 00:18:40,744 --> 00:18:44,725 Speaker 1: To maybe warn other potential job seekers. 419 00:18:45,255 --> 00:18:48,535 Speaker 2: So you see the My Career Futures portal initiated by 420 00:18:48,536 --> 00:18:51,336 Speaker 2: the government. If you post a job, you cannot repost 421 00:18:51,336 --> 00:18:53,734 Speaker 2: it more than 2 times. So they're trying to restraint 422 00:18:53,734 --> 00:18:55,495 Speaker 2: in that way. They're coming up with a very good 423 00:18:55,494 --> 00:18:59,125 Speaker 2: initiative now trying to encourage whoever advertising it to give 424 00:18:59,125 --> 00:19:02,234 Speaker 2: the response to the candidate because ghosting is a huge problem, right? 425 00:19:02,911 --> 00:19:05,170 Speaker 2: So the time you hear, I apply, I don't hear anything. 426 00:19:05,342 --> 00:19:08,222 Speaker 2: So they're trying to give you a very good view 427 00:19:08,222 --> 00:19:11,541 Speaker 2: about is this the employer that usually gives response to 428 00:19:11,541 --> 00:19:14,851 Speaker 2: the candidates, how often they come back with the response 429 00:19:14,852 --> 00:19:17,182 Speaker 2: and then from the employer's perspective, all you do is 430 00:19:17,182 --> 00:19:19,741 Speaker 2: really just a few click on the system itself. So 431 00:19:19,741 --> 00:19:22,341 Speaker 2: I think it's a very good initiative. I don't think 432 00:19:22,342 --> 00:19:25,041 Speaker 2: there are any specific body or 433 00:19:25,729 --> 00:19:27,810 Speaker 2: Law or rules or so, but then I think the 434 00:19:27,810 --> 00:19:32,130 Speaker 2: government is trying to do in the the other way, encouraging, yes, 435 00:19:32,170 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 2: at least for their own porter. But ultimately, when it 436 00:19:35,959 --> 00:19:39,010 Speaker 2: comes to the job seekers, I think the better way 437 00:19:39,010 --> 00:19:41,689 Speaker 2: to do in my opinion is to equip yourself with 438 00:19:41,689 --> 00:19:46,810 Speaker 2: the knowledge and better still, knowing what to ask is fundamental. 439 00:19:46,930 --> 00:19:50,170 Speaker 2: For example, when you see the job description is too 440 00:19:50,170 --> 00:19:52,729 Speaker 2: good to be true, ask the question, what is the 441 00:19:52,729 --> 00:19:53,290 Speaker 2: job responsibility? 442 00:19:53,410 --> 00:19:56,339 Speaker 2: Possibility for this one. What is the expectation? You are 443 00:19:56,339 --> 00:19:59,810 Speaker 2: asking for a project directed. How big is the project? 444 00:19:59,979 --> 00:20:02,979 Speaker 2: How big is the scale, how many people asking the 445 00:20:02,979 --> 00:20:06,859 Speaker 2: right question throughout the process. It's fundamental. And if I 446 00:20:06,859 --> 00:20:09,219 Speaker 2: use the case of your friend just now, Tiffany, not 447 00:20:09,219 --> 00:20:12,458 Speaker 2: being seen that you are desperate, because when you're in 448 00:20:12,459 --> 00:20:15,130 Speaker 2: desperate situation, you're probably not going to get a very 449 00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:17,459 Speaker 2: good baroning power in that sense. 450 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,810 Speaker 2: So in that situation, I'll be asking, what's the pipeline 451 00:20:20,810 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 2: of your head of department searching right now? What sort 452 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,209 Speaker 2: of the commitment I'm going to get from you if 453 00:20:26,209 --> 00:20:29,770 Speaker 2: I give you my commitment right now? What is eventually 454 00:20:29,770 --> 00:20:32,930 Speaker 2: the plan for this team? Those questions will help you 455 00:20:32,930 --> 00:20:35,810 Speaker 2: to make a better decision. I think that is the 456 00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 2: fundamental skills that all the job seekers should possess with them. 457 00:20:39,969 --> 00:20:41,969 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if I to summarize, one of the 458 00:20:41,969 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: things is if the job. 459 00:20:43,770 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: Thing looks too good to be true, a yoga and milkshakes, right, 460 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,339 Speaker 1: then be careful about that. And the other thing we 461 00:20:49,339 --> 00:20:52,349 Speaker 1: talked about was also if the job gets reposted several times, 462 00:20:52,599 --> 00:20:54,569 Speaker 1: then you also kind of know something is not quite right. 463 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: The third thing I would say is to maybe counter 464 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,149 Speaker 1: check whether this job exists on other portals because typically 465 00:21:01,150 --> 00:21:03,719 Speaker 1: if the recruiter is sincere in hiring, they will post 466 00:21:03,719 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: on several pages, including their own corporate website. So then 467 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: you go there and you reference and you see, OK. 468 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,469 Speaker 1: So this is a legit job, just posted on different places. 469 00:21:12,550 --> 00:21:12,669 Speaker 1: Just 470 00:21:12,670 --> 00:21:12,829 Speaker 2: just 471 00:21:12,829 --> 00:21:15,189 Speaker 2: a caveat a bit. Most of the time right now 472 00:21:15,189 --> 00:21:18,380 Speaker 2: it's very unlikely an organization doesn't have the online footprint, 473 00:21:18,829 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 2: very unlikely. So I think those are legitimate things you 474 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:22,709 Speaker 2: can look at. 475 00:21:22,829 --> 00:21:25,629 Speaker 1: Well, this podcast definitely has been very helpful for me. 476 00:21:25,670 --> 00:21:28,420 Speaker 1: I think even for myself, the next job listing that 477 00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:31,949 Speaker 1: I put out, I better be very clear, like you say, 478 00:21:32,109 --> 00:21:33,079 Speaker 1: put the 479 00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:34,750 Speaker 2: just won an award, right? People come 480 00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:35,579 Speaker 1: and look for you. 481 00:21:36,699 --> 00:21:38,579 Speaker 1: No, I still have to, but I definitely will still 482 00:21:38,579 --> 00:21:41,420 Speaker 1: put fast-paced environment because I don't want to sieve out 483 00:21:41,420 --> 00:21:44,219 Speaker 1: the snails, but yeah, I shouldn't shoot myself in the 484 00:21:44,219 --> 00:21:47,420 Speaker 1: foot with competitive salary and self-starter because even I don't 485 00:21:47,420 --> 00:21:49,670 Speaker 1: really quite understand that. But thank you so much, Han, 486 00:21:49,780 --> 00:21:50,900 Speaker 1: for coming on our podcast. 487 00:21:51,739 --> 00:21:52,500 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 488 00:21:57,510 --> 00:22:00,780 Speaker 1: Hi, it's our Ask Me Anything segment where we answer 489 00:22:00,780 --> 00:22:03,660 Speaker 1: a work-related question that you have sent it to us. 490 00:22:03,989 --> 00:22:06,319 Speaker 1: Please continue to send. I like them. They give me 491 00:22:06,319 --> 00:22:08,670 Speaker 1: very good food for thought and we hope that we 492 00:22:08,670 --> 00:22:12,140 Speaker 1: have helped you a wee bit in your work week. 493 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,900 Speaker 1: Today's question is sent in by Shaan. Now Sean's question 494 00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:19,270 Speaker 1: is about how to ask or get time off to 495 00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:23,829 Speaker 1: go and do interviews when you are juggling an existing job. Yeah. 496 00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:26,781 Speaker 1: I'm sure many people are interested right now. Well, this 497 00:22:26,781 --> 00:22:29,020 Speaker 1: is especially for interviews where you don't know if you're 498 00:22:29,020 --> 00:22:31,461 Speaker 1: going to be successful and there are multiple rounds. Yeah, 499 00:22:31,619 --> 00:22:35,990 Speaker 1: so Sean says taking leave for every interview is not feasible, 500 00:22:36,301 --> 00:22:39,330 Speaker 1: especially when you have to save some for other users. 501 00:22:39,701 --> 00:22:44,100 Speaker 1: Is resorting to taking medical leave more recommended or more 502 00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:47,090 Speaker 1: common in the workplace where leave approvals are not required 503 00:22:47,090 --> 00:22:50,291 Speaker 1: or can be requested at the last minute. OK. 504 00:22:50,702 --> 00:22:53,732 Speaker 1: This is a tricky situation, Sean, but how do you 505 00:22:53,732 --> 00:22:57,092 Speaker 1: go for these multiple interviews without raising the question with 506 00:22:57,092 --> 00:22:59,371 Speaker 1: your boss that, hey, you know, this guy is taking 507 00:22:59,371 --> 00:23:01,531 Speaker 1: a lot of leave huh? And also I just want 508 00:23:01,531 --> 00:23:03,900 Speaker 1: to caveat. I'm asking for a friend. OK, OK. Should 509 00:23:03,901 --> 00:23:08,411 Speaker 1: you use medical leave for this? Please don't. Please, please, 510 00:23:08,531 --> 00:23:11,171 Speaker 1: please don't lie. Don't abuse and mistrust because people are 511 00:23:11,171 --> 00:23:13,121 Speaker 1: going to figure out how come you always fall sick 512 00:23:13,121 --> 00:23:15,612 Speaker 1: and you don't really look sick and if it gets 513 00:23:15,612 --> 00:23:17,331 Speaker 1: found out, it's really, really going to look very bad. 514 00:23:17,912 --> 00:23:20,363 Speaker 1: So trust is going to be an issue. Yes, yes. 515 00:23:20,402 --> 00:23:23,363 Speaker 1: So don't don't abuse the benefit of medical leave for 516 00:23:23,363 --> 00:23:25,602 Speaker 1: job interviews. So with that out of the way, then 517 00:23:25,603 --> 00:23:28,243 Speaker 1: how do we get through the multiple rounds of interviews 518 00:23:28,243 --> 00:23:30,512 Speaker 1: if you're not going to use leave? Actually, I feel 519 00:23:30,512 --> 00:23:32,562 Speaker 1: like most of us, we somehow have our own way 520 00:23:32,561 --> 00:23:36,882 Speaker 1: of figuring it out, navigating it so there isn't that 521 00:23:36,883 --> 00:23:39,641 Speaker 1: one fixed answer. Maybe those who are listening, maybe you 522 00:23:39,642 --> 00:23:41,522 Speaker 1: can also drop in your comments on what you have 523 00:23:41,522 --> 00:23:43,753 Speaker 1: done the legit good ones, OK. 524 00:23:44,234 --> 00:23:47,384 Speaker 1: Illegal ones, but one thing is during the interview process, 525 00:23:47,494 --> 00:23:50,053 Speaker 1: it's important for you to ask the recruiter how many 526 00:23:50,053 --> 00:23:53,644 Speaker 1: rounds uh can you expect? sometimes they say 2 to 527 00:23:53,644 --> 00:23:55,792 Speaker 1: 3 rounds and you can have a sense over the 528 00:23:55,792 --> 00:23:58,703 Speaker 1: next couple of weeks, uh, if things go according to 529 00:23:58,703 --> 00:24:00,793 Speaker 1: plan and you get caught up for subsequent rounds, and 530 00:24:00,792 --> 00:24:02,792 Speaker 1: how many days of leave you need to take. You 531 00:24:02,792 --> 00:24:05,244 Speaker 1: might not want to take full day leaves you have 532 00:24:05,244 --> 00:24:07,394 Speaker 1: the option of taking half day, right? You can take 533 00:24:07,394 --> 00:24:09,754 Speaker 1: half days. You could also ask some of these interviews, 534 00:24:09,833 --> 00:24:10,543 Speaker 1: are they online? 535 00:24:11,145 --> 00:24:13,224 Speaker 1: Offline, right, I know some of the people are going 536 00:24:13,224 --> 00:24:16,864 Speaker 1: to wonder, hey, but if you are online and then 537 00:24:16,864 --> 00:24:20,104 Speaker 1: your boss calls you or rather your working hours, isn't 538 00:24:20,104 --> 00:24:22,343 Speaker 1: this like eating into the company policy, you're not being 539 00:24:22,344 --> 00:24:24,304 Speaker 1: a good employee, you taking your time off. I mean, 540 00:24:24,344 --> 00:24:27,265 Speaker 1: this is where the gray area happens. Ideally, the new 541 00:24:27,265 --> 00:24:29,435 Speaker 1: company will be nice enough to ask you to maybe 542 00:24:29,435 --> 00:24:32,104 Speaker 1: come down during lunch hours or after office hours for 543 00:24:32,104 --> 00:24:34,385 Speaker 1: an interview, and that's a possibility as well. If that's 544 00:24:34,385 --> 00:24:37,415 Speaker 1: an option, you can consider it, but as a job seeker, right. 545 00:24:37,546 --> 00:24:39,734 Speaker 1: You're wondering whether the person has eaten lunch. Why should 546 00:24:39,734 --> 00:24:45,336 Speaker 1: you career hungry person interviewing you is not good, it's 547 00:24:45,336 --> 00:24:47,656 Speaker 1: not it's gonna make proper assessment because not enough blood 548 00:24:47,656 --> 00:24:49,936 Speaker 1: sugar to the brain. Yeah, so usually if it was 549 00:24:49,936 --> 00:24:51,696 Speaker 1: up to me, right, I would probably say maybe just 550 00:24:51,696 --> 00:24:55,416 Speaker 1: after lunch hour, then it's for you to impress the 551 00:24:55,416 --> 00:24:58,995 Speaker 1: person to keep the person awake during that time or 552 00:24:58,994 --> 00:25:02,094 Speaker 1: maybe just before lunch, just before that, I think it'll 553 00:25:02,095 --> 00:25:04,166 Speaker 1: be OK, but if it's right smack in lunch hour people. 554 00:25:04,589 --> 00:25:06,909 Speaker 1: Might not like it very much, but I do know 555 00:25:06,910 --> 00:25:09,390 Speaker 1: companies HR and the supervisors are willing to meet people 556 00:25:09,390 --> 00:25:12,179 Speaker 1: during lunchtime. It's possible as well. So if it's outside 557 00:25:12,180 --> 00:25:13,869 Speaker 1: of the lunch hours, you still have to take like 558 00:25:13,869 --> 00:25:15,989 Speaker 1: a half day leave and everything. So you still have 559 00:25:15,989 --> 00:25:18,550 Speaker 1: to pace out, I guess Sean probably has to pace 560 00:25:18,550 --> 00:25:20,630 Speaker 1: out the leave quota that he has because he might 561 00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:22,310 Speaker 1: want to use all the other days to go and 562 00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:25,109 Speaker 1: travel with his family, do his own travels, and things 563 00:25:25,109 --> 00:25:27,469 Speaker 1: like that, right? Yes. Honestly, I don't think it will 564 00:25:27,469 --> 00:25:30,709 Speaker 1: take a lot of leave days, right, unless you're aggressively 565 00:25:30,709 --> 00:25:33,389 Speaker 1: being sought after la. But generally, you know, if you 566 00:25:33,390 --> 00:25:33,790 Speaker 1: are a job search. 567 00:25:34,104 --> 00:25:35,784 Speaker 1: While you're still being employed. The leave days is not 568 00:25:35,785 --> 00:25:38,944 Speaker 1: going to be significantly a lot, honestly speaking. But you 569 00:25:38,944 --> 00:25:40,823 Speaker 1: do need to manage if today you are really saving 570 00:25:40,824 --> 00:25:43,055 Speaker 1: up that leave for other things, then you do need 571 00:25:43,055 --> 00:25:45,083 Speaker 1: to plan a little bit. And what we said earlier, 572 00:25:45,185 --> 00:25:47,754 Speaker 1: asking for the number of days, number of rounds that 573 00:25:47,755 --> 00:25:50,094 Speaker 1: you need to have, that you can do it online, 574 00:25:50,344 --> 00:25:53,544 Speaker 1: can do it after office hours, during lunch breaks. I 575 00:25:53,545 --> 00:25:55,165 Speaker 1: think these are some of the advice that I will 576 00:25:55,165 --> 00:25:56,344 Speaker 1: give that you can try. 577 00:25:56,650 --> 00:25:58,599 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe we'll hear a lot more from 578 00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: our listeners in terms of what they have done, what 579 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,430 Speaker 1: are some of the good tips that they can give 580 00:26:04,430 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: to somebody like Shawn. So yeah, Sean, wish you all 581 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: the best in your job interviews. I hope that you 582 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,149 Speaker 1: don't have to go through that many, many rounds, but 583 00:26:13,310 --> 00:26:17,479 Speaker 1: in a nutshell, don't lie, get creative and you know 584 00:26:17,479 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: I'm hearing this for the first time, try not to 585 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: do a lunchtime interview, so yeah, let's try and avoid that. 586 00:26:22,699 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: If like Sean, you have a work-related question, do send 587 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,900 Speaker 1: it to us. We are at CNA podcasts at Mediacorp.com.sg. 588 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,819 Speaker 1: We're also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Me Listen, and YouTube 589 00:26:34,819 --> 00:26:37,319 Speaker 1: where a video version of this is at. 590 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,708 Speaker 1: The team behind the Work It podcast is Junaini Johari, 591 00:26:40,829 --> 00:26:46,739 Speaker 1: Joanne Chan, Saye Win, Allison Jenner, Shahzad Delia, and Christina Robert. 592 00:26:46,969 --> 00:26:50,750 Speaker 1: Video by Hania Ahmed. I'm Gerald and I'm Tiffany. Have 593 00:26:50,750 --> 00:26:52,989 Speaker 1: a good work week ahead and I hope you have 594 00:26:52,989 --> 00:26:54,310 Speaker 1: an understanding boss.