S1: The following is a C and a podcast. Welcome to
S1: the climate conversations, I'm Jamie who I'm talking about COP26,
S1: the annual meeting of the Conference of Parties to the
S1: UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. Negotiators have started converging
S1: in Glasgow and in coming days, leaders will follow as
S1: they seek to agree on all the key issues that
S1: have remained unresolved since the landmark climate conference six years
S1: ago in Paris, just as France hosted and led negotiations
S1: in 2015 is the United Kingdom's time. It's time to
S1: make this final push in the coming days. The context
S1: could not be clearer. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change,
S1: or IPCC, has in recent months laid out an even
S1: more stark terms the code Red for Humanity through its
S1: latest report, laying out the extent of the Earth's warming
S1: and the role that we have all no doubt played
S1: at the launch of the report. UN Secretary General Antonio
S1: Guterres said there was no more time for delay and
S1: no room for excuses not to take action. I count
S1: on government leaders and all stakeholders to ensure COP26 is
S1: a success, he said. So just what would success look like,
S1: what's been done or not done in the last years
S1: and what needs to be done in the coming days?
S1: With me to discuss this is about the lobbying force
S1: who works for the British government as head of Southeast
S1: Asia COP26 strategy based here in Singapore. Isobel, welcome. Thank you.
S2: Thank you for having me.
S1: I'm going to jump straight into it and refer to
S1: something that Mr Alok Sharma recently said. He's your boss,
S1: I presume, as president of COP26. And he has said
S1: over the last couple of days in my mind, he's
S1: appeared to either manage expectations by seeing that achieving a
S1: global climate deal in Glasgow might be harder than back
S1: in Paris. Or, you know, maybe he was just setting
S1: out the immensity of the task ahead in the coming weeks.
S1: But before we get into that lay out for us
S1: in broad strokes what the key deliverables for COP26 are
S1: going to be that will make up this global deal.
S2: The key thing we have to remember about Glasgow COP26
S2: is that we are not seeking to have a new deal.
S2: We actually are seeking to deliver on the Paris Agreement.
S2: Paris Agreement was a milestone, a landmark agreement. The position
S2: we are in now is to make sure that Glasgow
S2: delivers on what Paris promised. It's a difficult task because
S2: since the parties got together in Paris in 2015, can
S2: has gas emissions have continued to increase and the impacts
S2: of climate change have kept telling themselves already works. We
S2: have massive impacts of climate change at the party. Glasgow
S2: is a big cop running circles of five year cop.
S2: Every five year you have a big cop where the
S2: big agreement is made and then the years in between
S2: the more boats monitoring progress. This one comes five years
S2: after Paris, actually six years because we had one year
S2: of delay because of going to this one actually is
S2: looking at showing how the world's reinforces its commitment to
S2: the Paris Agreement and actually demonstrates that it can deliver
S2: on what Paris signed up. It's also the unresolved issues
S2: in the Paris Agreement to make it actually work effectively.
S2: There are things that the negotiators who have agreed to
S2: Paris agreements to nail down. So that's the first thing.
S2: It's basically Paris promised a lot and we are still
S2: committed to these promises and we want all the parties
S2: to still confirm their commitments to Paris. But Glasgow must
S2: deliver on what Paris promises. The second key objective for
S2: COP26 is about keeping this 1.5 degrees alive because since
S2: the Paris Agreement was signed, the world has not done enough.
S2: Emissions have continued to increase, and the IPCC has issued
S2: a report of its summer in August showing that the
S2: world is not on track to keep 1.5 degrees alive. Therefore,
S2: we must step up the actions before the window for
S2: action is closing because we actually must reduce the greenhouse
S2: gas emissions by half by 2030 and move globally to
S2: a net carbon emissions by 2050. And the trajectory now
S2: is still in a remote region, especially in Asia and
S2: Southeast Asia. We need to keep this 1.5 goal that
S2: was set at Paris the lies and show that countries
S2: come to the table with commitments to keep this alive,
S2: and we will do that through actions across different sectors
S2: that contribute the most for the reasons gas emissions, the
S2: power sector, deep forests and land use sectors. These are
S2: key target sectors where we must show that we are
S2: committed to reduce emissions. The last, so let's would say,
S2: is that because of COVID, it will not really feel
S2: like your normal cop health safety rules will be straight
S2: and stringent, and we have to do that to ensure
S2: that we can have a physical cop and safeguarded irrigation.
S2: So we really have to develop code that is transparent,
S2: inclusive and driven by the parties who need to be
S2: there to negotiate. So it's not an easy task, but
S2: I think we've set ourselves in a good position to
S2: get there.
S1: You've raised many, many issues and I hope to get
S1: into all of them, including the last thing that you
S1: mentioned about how the negotiations actually take place. But let
S1: me jump on a first question before that, and that
S1: relates to obviously the ambition and the targets that I
S1: have already been put up, which, as you allude to
S1: need to be improved on NDCs, is what they're called
S1: nationally determined contributions. They've all been submitted, but there have
S1: been continual calls for people to bring improved contributions to
S1: the table. Are you expecting anything between now and two
S1: to three weeks time in terms of more ambitious targets?
S1: We saw recently that Australia has now spoken about net
S1: zero emissions by 2050, but what else might you realistically
S1: expect
S2: under the Paris Agreement? All the parties have a legal
S2: obligation to submit their indices. This is basically each country
S2: setting for themselves their targets in terms of reducing their
S2: greenhouse gas emissions. Most of the countries have set these.
S2: In South East Asia, for instance, 10 countries have submitted
S2: their budgets in. Seemed to the unit to proceed and
S2: monitor them where we are at this stage is that
S2: if you look at some of the indices, he still
S2: doesn't keep us on a trajectory to 1.5 degrees, not
S2: even a two degree trajectory. So there's still more that
S2: needs to be done. And these only see look at 2030.
S2: By 2030, this is really the Typekit where we have
S2: to bend the curve, bend the curve of emissions. So
S2: shifting from globally increasing emissions to actually globally decreasing emissions
S2: and then the steep dawn curve to keep 1.5 degrees alive,
S2: we're expecting a number of key countries to come to
S2: Glasgow with increased ambition. So I won't be able to
S2: tell you which countries they funding because that will be
S2: for the announcement. Yes, but we can't really expecting some
S2: countries to step up. We've already seen countries that we
S2: were not expecting to step up when we took the
S2: presidency about a year and a half ago, and we've
S2: seen them come to the table, increase the ambition. So
S2: I think we see that there is a clear process
S2: of ambition raising that is happening. When you talk about conditions,
S2: we have to consider as the nation is set for
S2: 2030 and these are the indices and then the big
S2: announcement that we looking at as well are these net
S2: zero announcements. And as you know, this net zero is
S2: about 2050, so we're looking at a bit longer term.
S2: But the IPCC told us is that we have to
S2: reach net zero globally by 2050. Some countries may do
S2: it later, but globally the bulk of the emissions have
S2: to reach net zero by 2050. And that's where we
S2: were expecting a number of countries who have not yet
S2: spoken on net zero to come to cope with announcements
S2: on when it would reach net zero. The countries that
S2: have committed to net zero account for about 75 percent
S2: of the global greenhouse gas emissions and around 80 percent
S2: of the global GDP. And when we took our presidency
S2: in December 2019, the coverage was less than 30 percent
S2: of the GDP. So we've already achieved massively over the
S2: last year and a half, and it is definitely a
S2: trajectory of increasing ambition.
S1: As you say, the job of a president is to
S1: help push things along as it relates to ambition and
S1: targets to push all the parties along as quickly as
S1: we can and as strong as you can. A lot
S1: of work has already been done in the last couple
S1: of years. But how much of it actually culminates now
S1: and is it realistic always to expect the president to
S1: be able to put the cats in this last couple
S1: of weeks towards at least a good outcome in terms
S1: of ambition and enhanced NDCs, whether we are looking at
S1: targets for 2030 or even further to 2050.
S2: That's the challenge of the presidency and to, as you said,
S2: herding cats. We have 196 countries here. This is basically
S2: all the countries in the world and there are some
S2: difficult cuts in that match. So the role is really
S2: to lead by example. So I think what the UK
S2: presidency has been very firm on is really leading by
S2: example announcing our net zero commitments, or NDC. Last week
S2: we published on a dual strategy so leading by example.
S2: I think it's really important to be a credible presidency.
S2: The other element that's very important is building trust with
S2: the other parties, especially parties that are more reluctant to
S2: order tends to be more difficult to get around the
S2: table and get to consensus. And that's what I look.
S2: And what are you communities have done over the last
S2: year and a half, you know, travelling around the world
S2: where we could and virtually travelling when we couldn't really
S2: speak with their opposite numbers and try to give the
S2: defense some momentum. This sense of urgency that COP26 will be.
S2: So it is a challenging role to sort of rule
S2: where when we take the presidency, we have to be
S2: neutral and be facilitating discussions. So it's not about taking sides,
S2: it's really about facilitating discussions, facilitating consensus and being as
S2: helpful to reach an agreement as possible. Luckily, the UK
S2: has a long history of leading international negotiations. I think
S2: we're quite well positioned, hopefully to achieve that.
S1: I must imagine that it would have been extremely difficult
S1: for the COP presidency to do its work in the
S1: last 20 months. And because, as you say, so much
S1: of the work in terms of negotiations happen face to
S1: face happen at meetings, happen with travel happened with meetings
S1: outside of the usual you F2Pool C circuit. Would you say,
S1: therefore that COVID has sort of set back negotiations quite significantly?
S1: And has that meant that the ball has been pushed
S1: a bit further into the end of this year than
S1: you might have liked?
S2: COVID has definitely had an impact, and there's no denying
S2: it has an impact not only on cop negotiations but on,
S2: you know, when everyone in the. In fact, it has
S2: is that crop has been delayed by one year, crop
S2: was meant to be in November 2020 and though we're
S2: having it in November 2021, so that's delayed by one year.
S2: What did it allow? It actually allows couple of in-person
S2: crop has to be in-person classes. A very difficult negotiations
S2: are very sensitive one. Yeah, lots of interests and parties involved.
S2: And there was a clear recognition last year in 2020,
S2: not only by the UK, but by the Chilean existing
S2: presidency and by the bureau that a cop has to
S2: be physically. You can't have a virtual negotiations with so
S2: many parties. You need to build trust. You need to
S2: look at your negotiators in the eyes and that could
S2: only be done in person. So the key impacts of
S2: COVID is that we have to delay when the global
S2: health system was more ready and not perfect, but more
S2: ready to accommodate the physical copy, flu vaccine and so on.
S2: That's why we we're having cop physically in Glasgow this week,
S2: but with a reduced number cop, not like a usual cop,
S2: it will feel different because of this your framework for
S2: preparation over the last year. I wouldn't say that it's
S2: been a setback. It's been like a change of ways
S2: of working. Obviously, a lot of negotiations and diplomatic engagement
S2: has to be done virtually, which is not the natural habitats. Diplomats.
S2: The core of diplomacy is to meet people. Face to
S2: face is to build that relationship, build that trust. We
S2: have to do that virtually, which definitely wasn't easy, but
S2: because only countries were in the same situation, we all
S2: had to adapt. So having this extra year to prepare
S2: was really useful to basically took more time to build
S2: that trust and prepare for these negotiations. There has been
S2: some physical meetings during the year, but limited to key
S2: parties and key players that had to meet physically. We've
S2: had a ministerial summit in December, so in July in London,
S2: with key ministers and negotiators on some of the areas
S2: of the Paris Agreement that still need to be resolved
S2: and you have to proceed has organized some targeted physical
S2: meetings with the parties and negotiators that's actually had to
S2: meet that particular set up. So it hasn't all been,
S2: which really has mostly been virtual, but there has been
S2: some physical engagements over the last year.
S1: Let me get into the actual nub of the negotiations
S1: and the issues that everyone hopes will be resolved in Glasgow.
S1: One of the things that people talk about is Article six,
S1: and obviously in these climate negotiations, that's only code words.
S1: It's almost like a secret language. Article six is said
S1: to be an important part of it highly technical aspect
S1: of the Paris Agreement, which you know helps government implement
S1: carbon markets. Explain to us as simply as you can
S1: perhaps what it means and where we're at in terms
S1: of realistically delivering on an outcome. Why Article six in
S1: the next couple of weeks,
S2: there are lots of jargon abbreviation the article language. When
S2: you talk about the Energy Policy Conference of the parties
S2: so articulate as you say, it is the carbon market particles.
S2: You have different sort of articles under Article six without
S2: getting too technical. The purpose of Article six is to
S2: set up a new framework for international carbon markets to operate.
S2: So that means the principle is that if you reduce
S2: emission in one part of the world, then another part
S2: of the world can claim that emission towards their targets
S2: for their commitment to reduce emissions. That's a principle. It's
S2: about international cooperation to facilitate reducing emissions and actually tapping
S2: into areas or parts of the world where reducing emissions
S2: and cheaper than other areas. So there are parts of
S2: the world where you have natural ecosystems that could be
S2: used to capture much more emissions, while some developed countries
S2: or industrial countries may have less potential to capture emissions.
S2: So it's about international cooperation on how to reduce emissions
S2: and then creating a market for this carbon to be treated.
S2: So that involves carbon rules about how you will recognize
S2: the emissions from one country to the other. Rules about
S2: how you will measure the emission reductions rule about how
S2: you will report these emissions rules, about how to make
S2: sure that these emissions are additional to what would have
S2: happened anyway, because you only want to capture the value
S2: of additional reduction that you beings. There are points about
S2: how to make sure that these emission reductions are permanent.
S2: For instance, you invest in the new forest that you want. Basically,
S2: plenty of forests, let it go for 10 years and
S2: then cut it down because the think of your emission
S2: would not be permanent. So there are lots of technical
S2: issues to resolve about how this market monopoly. But what's
S2: interesting in the Article six negotiations also is that it's
S2: not only technical. Becomes very political, very quickly. And that
S2: is why it is an area that has always been
S2: trickier in the negotiation because political interests come into play,
S2: especially about recognition of existing carbon credits, for instance, because
S2: there was another carbon trading system that has been operating
S2: up until 2026 under the Kyoto Protocol, which was the
S2: agreement before the Paris Agreement. But there was a lot
S2: of recognition about this failure and the limitations of that system,
S2: so the new system is supposed to be better. But
S2: some countries who have benefited a lot from the previous
S2: system want to keep the benefits of their system as
S2: much as possible. Poorer countries now want to make sure
S2: that a new system becomes a perversion of empirically is
S2: not the way polluted by the adverse elements in the
S2: previous system, and that can become very political. The political
S2: issues about transparency as well and how much information you
S2: want to share with the other countries. So, you know,
S2: it is very technical, but it becomes quickly, very political.
S2: And that is why in the negotiation tracks, there is
S2: a technical track and there is a ministerial track that
S2: you will have. The first week is mostly negotiators and
S2: technical negotiations at the end of the first week. Of course,
S2: they come together, come to a conclusion of where the
S2: discussions lead. And then the second week is more when
S2: ministers weaving into the conversations on the negotiations and you
S2: need both tracks to progress.
S1: So many of these things are technical, but in the
S1: end all comes down to a political decision because they
S1: are politically sensitive as well. Correct? So I would imagine
S1: that as it stands, there probably has been a lot
S1: of work done over the last few years since Paris
S1: on Article six. Would you say that the political decisions
S1: that are left over that need to be decided on
S1: in the next couple of weeks, the gaps are closer
S1: will have to negotiate this sort of teed up situation
S1: sufficiently enough so that by the time the ministers come
S1: or even the leaders come, there are enough areas for
S1: landing or trade offs in other places.
S2: We are within reach of agreements on the different areas,
S2: so the gaps are definitely plausible. The technical negotiations have progressed.
S2: We've seen, you know, movements towards consensus areas, but I see,
S2: you know, all these negotiations. You never know until the
S2: last minute because you need in the way the pressure
S2: of the negotiation. Well, having come to a deadline to
S2: see things falling into place, but we are in a
S2: better situation because we we could be and the way
S2: we have structured the programme of COP26 with the leaders
S2: coming first. So the first two days of COP will
S2: be the World Leaders Summit that will be on the
S2: first and the second plus November. And that is when
S2: the leaders from over 120 countries are going to be
S2: physically in Glasgow to really send a clear signal to
S2: the negotiators to work together and agree on the best
S2: ways and rules to accelerate the actions and resolve the issues.
S2: I think that will really set the tone, and we're
S2: counting on these 120 leaders who have accepted the invitation
S2: to send that message. Then we have the first week
S2: of negotiations and then we have ministers coming also on
S2: the second week finalising some of the deals. And that's
S2: something that most of the parties, a lot of them
S2: are seasoned negotiators to the know how it works. And although,
S2: as I said, it will feel a bit different this year,
S2: inevitably because of COVID, which is still very much the
S2: same essence of negotiation that will happen.
S1: In negotiations, I suppose it is often said that nothing's
S1: agreed until everything's agreed, right? So I'm going to get
S1: into the key things as to what the rest of
S1: the everything looks like. Another sort of catch phrase and
S1: key word that we always hear is finance. It's always finance, finance, finance.
S1: It seems to be the same every year. Every time
S1: there is a conference of parties, people talk about finance.
S1: It was before Paris was an issue. After Paris is
S1: still an issue. Very quickly sum up where we are
S1: at now in terms of parties ability to meet expectations
S1: of the $100 billion a year that has been committed to.
S1: And do you expect Glasgow to lead to some clarity there?
S2: Yes, definitely. As you said, nothing you didn't until everything's
S2: agreed in. There can be trade offs between different strands
S2: of the negotiations because they were so lots of links
S2: between them. So obviously there are links between multiplicity of
S2: common markets and finance and also how you monitor the indices.
S2: So that's why it is very important to see how
S2: the whole package. But as I said, if we don't
S2: start from the thing, we start with the Paris Agreement,
S2: that is already the starting point and it's about delivering
S2: on that Paris agreement and making it work effectively. Finance
S2: is always the tricky issue. It is a tricky issue.
S2: You know, in international negotiations in I think in general
S2: when we think of a COVID recovery source of our time.
S2: And so you can't have a discussion on financing and
S2: you shouldn't because finance are very important. So currency is
S2: one of the three pillars of the Paris Agreement on mitigation.
S2: So reducing emissions. Second pillar, another patient. And then the
S2: third pillar was on finance, and you need finance to
S2: be able to deliver the other two pillars. So where
S2: do we stand on finance? The Paris Agreement sets this
S2: 100 billion figure, which is basically commitments from all the
S2: developed countries to commit to deliver 100 billion of finance
S2: per year between 2020 and 2025. And then this figure
S2: should increase to 2025. And that is one of the
S2: reasons that negotiators will discuss in Paris. So where are
S2: we now on this 100 billion? We're not quite there yet,
S2: but we are building touching distance of it. So we've
S2: seen over the last few months and weeks a number
S2: of countries who have come up with increased level of
S2: commitments the UK, ourselves, we have to commit all commitments
S2: to the international finance. We have to choose eleven point
S2: six billion pounds for the five year period. We see
S2: that the G7 nations have committed to do more towards
S2: this when it begins, and we've seen the US increasing
S2: the commitments. Canada with Germany, lots of countries have already
S2: showed that they will increase their commitments. We have a
S2: working group led by Canada and Germany that will be
S2: reporting at COP on the progress on the 100 billion.
S2: There will be a report on the progress towards this
S2: $100 billion and the one thing that I want to
S2: mention on this one independent. It's not only public and
S2: money from governments, it's also about mobilising private finance and
S2: development finance from international development banks. We've just seen last
S2: week that ADB has announced 100 billion contribution to commit
S2: finance continues for between 2019 and 2030. So that is
S2: 20 billion more than what they had previously announced, with
S2: the International Development Bank's increasing their commitment to international Islamic finance.
S2: We also see that the private sector. So as I said,
S2: leveraging private finance is very important to deliver the needs
S2: of the finance for mitigation and adaptation. And we have
S2: launched through the Makhani, who was a former central bank
S2: governor in the UK Islam, the Glasgow Financial Alliance for
S2: Net Zero. And that alliance mobilised the financial sector to
S2: flow to net zero, and it now represents over 90
S2: trillion in assets just in over a few months this year.
S2: So we see that in the private sector is also
S2: mobilising more and more, you know, to fit the bill.
S2: These low carbon transition?
S1: Yeah, I mean, the issue of finance comes up at
S1: almost every cop, and it's something which developing and least
S1: developed countries obviously look to in terms of commitments from
S1: the developed countries to step up and as a signal
S1: of their commitments. And one other thing which I should raise,
S1: which is of interest to small and island nations, is
S1: obviously the issue of again climate negotiator catch phrase loss
S1: and damage. Explain briefly what loss and damage means, and again,
S1: what progress has been made in the last couple of years,
S1: which lead us now up to here and what you
S1: think Glasgow can deliver on loss and damage.
S2: It's really about recognising that even if we stopped all
S2: emissions now. So even if we reach net zero tomorrow,
S2: the impacts of climate change will still be felt because
S2: two greenhouse gases are still trapped in the atmosphere. So
S2: it's really. Countries will still inevitably suffer from the impacts
S2: of climate change and the loss and damage that India
S2: is about cognizant the loss and the damages that some
S2: of the most vulnerable country face. Making sure that there
S2: is enough finance for these countries to be able to
S2: adapt each resilience in the face of the impacts of
S2: climate change again is not only about finance, obviously, you
S2: know you need finance to do that, but you also
S2: need a plan. If you are of another country, you
S2: need to come up with a plan to say, OK,
S2: this is how we fight the impacts of climate change.
S2: This is how I will adapt my community, how will
S2: adapt my economy. This is how I will make my
S2: country more resilient. So I think the flip side of
S2: the finance from developed countries, it's about definable countries recognizing
S2: what they need that money for and being ready to
S2: use that money in an effective way so that money
S2: can really go directly to where it is needed for
S2: the local communities and for employment and livelihoods of people
S2: who are the most impacted. It hasn't always been easy
S2: to secure these national adaptation plans for adaptation communications from
S2: some countries, some good neighbor countries who clearly recognize that
S2: they needs help. But it's sometimes difficult to identify what's
S2: to help build towards. There's been a lot of work
S2: happening in Spanish on adaptation and resilience and loss and
S2: damage to really recognize what sort of project we need.
S1: Yeah, I would imagine that this is probably one of
S1: those issues which can be highly politically sensitive as well,
S1: because some people use the word reparations. Some people use
S1: the word responsibility, so it's going to be tough. Has
S1: there been enough sort of closing of gaps between those
S1: who would need the funds and need the help and
S1: those who are in the position to provide it and
S1: recognizing that there is a need to close this gap?
S2: I don't really like them to produce the words reparation responsibility.
S2: There is a responsibility, but it's a responsibly today that
S2: everyone has to accelerate their actions to reduce climate change,
S2: but also adapt to climate change. So talking about reparation,
S2: blaming and others, that doesn't really help move the needle
S2: and resolve the issues. So that's very much a spirit
S2: of the Paris Agreement to the Paris Agreement was where
S2: all the parties recognized that there is a common responsibility,
S2: common but differentiated responsibility to actually act, he said about
S2: some parties waiting to see what others will do so
S2: for parties acting together. Obviously, some parties are better placed
S2: to finance than other parties and about sharing and collaborating
S2: and recognizing where responsibility lies and when we're shown where
S2: our strengths and weaknesses lie to be able to collaborate effectively.
S2: But that's much more the spirit of the international organization
S2: since the Paris Agreement. It was not like that before.
S2: Under the Kyoto Protocol, it was very much A and
S2: B countries and very much an acquisition. I think that
S2: was really changed in Paris. This was his recognition that
S2: it is a common issue and that we can only
S2: solve it if we work together. Finance has to flow
S2: from some countries to the. It's support flowing to the
S2: right place for the right purpose. And it's about taking responsibility.
S2: Then there is this report that's a feature of the
S2: Paris Agreement, which is the adaptation communications. So countries are
S2: meant to submit adaptation communications to Germany, where they recognize
S2: the need for adaptation resilience based on the damage that
S2: they are already facing or that they think they will
S2: face in the future based on projections. So things are
S2: really critical reports. And finally, when you look at the
S2: research on many and a lot of countries have to
S2: find it hard to submit these national communications or a
S2: more detailed national adaptation plans. So that's why a lot
S2: of the international work now is about helping vulnerable countries
S2: not only access finance but also understand how they can
S2: protect themselves. A lot of support, not only on financial
S2: terms with our strengthened of capacity building technical assistance. To
S2: understand how you can protect yourself from these disasters and
S2: how you can adapt and build your resilience to finance
S2: is one thing. But I think building capacity, resilience and
S2: technical assistance is a big part of the offer as
S2: well to whenever countries
S1: going to start closing off our conversation. It's been fascinating
S1: and I'll talk a little bit maybe about process now
S1: as we conclude. Firstly, explain to the layman what's going
S1: to happen in the next couple of days. You've already
S1: made a brief reference to this in terms of how
S1: the process is going to go and what the public
S1: can expect in terms of the news that's going to
S1: start emerging from Glasgow. That's one. And secondly, as will
S1: talk about what you make about leaders. Who will or
S1: will not be present in Glasgow for good and for bad?
S1: Much of what happens at these meetings usually boils down
S1: to news about leaders actions on the ground, right? And
S1: when you look at Copenhagen in 2009, there was talk
S1: about Obama and his secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and
S1: then in Paris, it was Obama again and John Kerry.
S1: This is now President Joe Biden's time. It's unclear whether
S1: President Xi Jinping is going to be there. Probably not.
S1: But explain, as well as we conclude, the importance of
S1: having leaders stay and what their role will be in
S1: the final reckoning.
S2: COP26 will formally open on Sunday, so the first that
S2: will be when the negotiation will open. And then the
S2: world leaders are coming on the Monday and the Tuesday.
S2: So the World Leaders Summit is on the Monday and Tuesday,
S2: and that is where we can expect over 120 leaders
S2: coming physically in Glasgow and deprogram Ford Explorer Leader Summit
S2: last for two. This will really allow these leaders to
S2: send a clear signal to the negotiators about actually meeting
S2: what commitments they are making political, basically sending clear political messages.
S2: The beginning, of course, in terms of net zero commitments,
S2: in terms of adaptation, in terms of finance, in terms
S2: of some tricky and important policy areas like energy transition,
S2: like zero emission vehicles like forest conservation that will be
S2: the core of the World Leaders Summit. So you have
S2: a plenary opening on the first day. So on Monday morning,
S2: then in the afternoon, there is an event where leaders
S2: are being invited to reflect on what Conference six will
S2: achieve and also provide examples of success and solutions that
S2: they experience in their countries. So starting with saying this
S2: is how it works in my country, this is these
S2: are the lessons learned from my country on the second day,
S2: they will be two kind of theme events one on
S2: forest and land use. And that's a very important moment
S2: for countries to show the importance of linking climate and nature.
S2: And that will be about leaders endorsing the declaration on
S2: protecting forests and sustainable land use. And in the afternoon
S2: there is a leader level session on innovation. So looking
S2: at innovations in sectors like energy transport, the Agenda for
S2: the World Leaders Summit is kind of a plenary, the
S2: statesmen from some leaders. And then it will go into
S2: details on some policy areas where we expect leaders to
S2: really show that they are taking commitments themselves. It's important
S2: to have the leaders there. Obviously, we never have all
S2: the leaders. I think we're ready, very happy with 120 leaders.
S2: When we started thinking about hosting a physical leader level
S2: event in November 2021, we thought it's infuriating and the
S2: way 120. So I think that's a pretty big success
S2: in itself. If some leaders are not able to come
S2: and there are different reasons for COVID reasons, gender politics
S2: reasons than their ministers will be there to being cop
S2: and they will be giving their national statements during cop
S2: and the negotiators will be there. We expect in negotiations
S2: delegations from all the countries will be represented. So I
S2: think this leader setting the signal at the beginning, of course,
S2: is really important that that's not the end, it's the
S2: beginning of the cop. And then we'll have the negotiators
S2: and the ministers who will carry on on their mandate
S2: from their leader during the two weeks.
S1: Well, you know, as all these negotiations go, they usually
S1: go right up to the last minute and they'll be
S1: long nights, early mornings, whatever it is, we all hope
S1: that your presidency will be able to deliver a good
S1: outcome in the meantime. Thank you so much, Isabelle De
S1: lobbying for us.
S2: Thank you, Jamie. Pleasure.
S1: And thanks for listening to the climate conversations. Stay up
S1: to date on CNN's coverage of climate change on CNN Asia.
S1: You can also find this and other senior podcasts on
S1: our website and on iTunes and Spotify. The team behind
S1: this podcast are Christina, Robert, Lisa Ling and Erin Low.
S1: And I'm Jamie Hall till next week.