S1: The following is a C and a podcast. Welcome to
S1: the climate conversations, I'm Jamie Hoh. Now when we talk
S1: about climate action, we often think of big changes like
S1: weaning of fossil fuels, adopting renewable energy and going big
S1: on electric vehicles. But what if we looked a bit
S1: more carefully into the carbon emissions in our homes, all
S1: related to electricity usage for what we do at home?
S1: They are already energy efficient air conditioners and fridges, smart
S1: home systems that can monitor and regulate our electricity usage
S1: and perhaps sometime in the future. Solar panels that can
S1: directly power our homes. These sounds great, but while developers
S1: can also make new buildings greener, what about older homes?
S1: What does moving beyond buying LED lights or using less
S1: power entail? An energy efficient at home devices make a
S1: difference in our overall emissions, and if more of us
S1: did our our pothole, will these efforts add to the
S1: overall climate goals that Singapore has with me to talk through?
S1: This is my initial point zone president in East Asia
S1: and Japan for Schneider Electric Manish overseas operations and his
S1: company's drive for smart energy management solutions to help homes
S1: and businesses operate more sustainably and contribute to the country's
S1: climate goals. Manish, welcome.
S2: Thank you, Jimi.
S1: Manish, let's start with the last year and a half.
S1: You know, we've largely lived with COVID 19 at home
S1: looking at how we've adapted for good and bad. What's
S1: your take on our overall energy usage at home? Has
S1: it been a net negative or net positive? Have some
S1: of the bad habits we used to have at the
S1: office translated back home?
S2: It's a great question. Clearly, COVID has been one of
S2: the single most events of this century that has. This
S2: has changed a lot of things. One of them is
S2: what we have been spending more time at home. It's
S2: a place where you live, play, work and doing all
S2: of that even more than what you were doing before.
S2: And it's changing the habits of all of us in
S2: some respects from a perspective of energy. Since we are
S2: spending more time at home, it's very normal to expect
S2: that their energy consumption are going to go up at home.
S2: And let's keep also in mind that there are a
S2: lot of other dimensions that are changing and that you change.
S2: One of the things that COVID has done is we
S2: all start to realise that it's an interconnected world today.
S2: You have a desert, which is everywhere. COVID started at
S2: one place and it's all over the world, so we
S2: are very well connected and it's something that closing of
S2: boundaries is not going to be an answer coming to
S2: climate change. And it's pretty much the same that you
S2: can say that if you produce more in one part
S2: of the world, it's going to be not affecting the
S2: other part of the world. And therefore, everything about climate
S2: change because of COVID is gaining that much more attention
S2: and is really at the top of the agenda for everybody,
S2: not just for the government. We start to realize it
S2: as well.
S1: Let me talk a little bit about technology in homes
S1: as far as energy efficiency goes. Have we reached the
S1: peak of technology there or do you still see some
S1: potential in real savings in technology foil for energy efficiency
S1: in homes?
S2: As a believer in technology, there are always gains to
S2: be made. There's always an improvement that is possible. The
S2: continuous improvement is always there. First things first, as consumers,
S2: we have to be responsible, which means that we have
S2: to make sure that since we are spending so much
S2: time at home, let's make sure we do the basics
S2: that's fundamental and even goes beyond technology. Of course, technology
S2: is there to help us and this is the power
S2: of digital, which is helping us complement or augment our
S2: behaviour and making it much more easier, for example, to
S2: switch off the air conditioner or switch on the light,
S2: including the light for the whole home, then we are
S2: taking a step outside. So yes, technologies today exist, which
S2: are able to, thanks to the power of digital that
S2: is able to bring automation at home since we are
S2: spending more time at home. We have seen that there
S2: is an uptick in adoption of these technologies by consumers,
S2: and this is a global phenomenon that is happening. We
S2: have seen the amount of money that is spent on
S2: home improvement is going up. Home automation is something that
S2: is also on the uptick because people start to realise that, yes,
S2: a today you have technologies that work and be. It
S2: is something that is increasing the level of comfort personalisation.
S2: Not to say that it is also helping save energy
S2: at the same time. Yes, it is smart, but it's
S2: also making home sustainable, and I think both of them
S2: are quite key.
S1: But the fact is, this might tell us, especially for
S1: individual homes, if they start looking at smart home or
S1: new technologies at an individual level, how much savings are
S1: we actually thinking about in terms of energy usage?
S2: What we have seen is that adoption of smart home
S2: technologies can save depending on your baseline or what you
S2: are using before. It could save anything between 30 and
S2: even up to 50 percent of energy. I'm talking about global,
S2: so this is more relevant where you use heating in
S2: cold weather, which uses a substantial energy guzzler over a
S2: period of time. So that's where you use automated thermostats,
S2: where you are able to set temperatures, and today you
S2: have technologies which is able to even go deeper and
S2: you can set a different temperature in every room. And Schneider,
S2: as a company, brings those technologies that help you do that.
S2: There are two or three things which are happening. One
S2: is people start to see that these devices are available
S2: and you are seeing the benefit of adopting this because
S2: you are more conscious now that you are spending time
S2: at home of the impact it has on your nose,
S2: you build. So that's visible. The other is there is
S2: a stronger focus from the government in terms of bringing
S2: a lot of sometimes subsidies in different parts of the world.
S2: We've seen that in the UK, you see that in
S2: us to help in the adoption of these energy efficient
S2: devices for home. And third is the cost in general
S2: of these smart home devices thanks to larger adoption or
S2: technology advancements. The price points that the customer see is
S2: actually going down, whereas I can give you an example
S2: before we used to have wired systems which are like Kinnick.
S2: Systems are Siebel Systems, which are available in different parts
S2: of the world that were quite sophisticated and were at
S2: price points which were substantially higher today with the adoption
S2: of wireless systems. One of them is wiser. We've seen
S2: that the cost it can go into a middle class home,
S2: whereas before it was more for the higher end and
S2: the premium segment Hobbs. That's what technology is bringing in,
S2: and therefore it is becoming easier for customers for consumers
S2: to access this technology. First, I would say, from a personalization,
S2: comfort and lifestyle. And then at the same time, also
S2: from an efficiency perspective,
S1: let me just shift attention a little bit specifically to
S1: Singapore now. And obviously, most of us here live in
S1: either HDB flat or private condo in such a setting.
S1: What really is the potential for spot technology and energy
S1: efficient systems playing out? And is it really practical for
S1: individual households to start looking into this?
S2: Here I will bring in some data from Singapore, where
S2: we see that Singapore is contributing 0.1 percent to the
S2: global emissions. And we it. If you look at four households,
S2: there is about seven percent of emissions which are coming
S2: from households both direct as well as secondary emissions, which
S2: is much more than that of transportation. So clearly one
S2: of the areas that when we focus on, we are
S2: able to bring down the level of energy consumption. Now
S2: one of the things is it is about electricity. It
S2: is the cleanest form of energy, is the best vector
S2: for decarbonisation. So today we still in Singapore use gas
S2: if you are able to move from gas to electricity.
S2: There will be a substantial savings that we will get
S2: in terms of the greenhouse gas emissions. What we see
S2: is that today in Singapore, there's a network of gas,
S2: which is there any fear able to switch that to electricity?
S2: It is clearly something that is going to save a
S2: lot of carbon emissions, which is what is. We have seen,
S2: for example, in the UK, there's a move to move
S2: from gas heating. And of course, it's in a different
S2: environment because it's more used for heating the homes and
S2: not just for cooking. Now the second thing is about digitisation,
S2: which is about automation that we talked about both electricity
S2: being green and then digital, bringing the power of making
S2: electricity visible. Even staying in HDB home, you're able to
S2: see how much energy you're consuming on a real time basis,
S2: which is possible. There is a technologies which exist today
S2: that is able to help you control your home together
S2: with a layer of artificial intelligence which is coming into
S2: those devices. The thing is what we are also saying
S2: it's possible to add on top of the connected devices
S2: and appliances that are getting more and more common in homes.
S2: You can add smart capability to make it much more efficient.
S2: You have the adoption of home energy management systems to
S2: which you can control appliances, for example, directly from your
S2: electric socket instead of going to the device so you
S2: have smart devices. Or you can even make your non-smart
S2: devices smart by controlling them directly from the electrical panel,
S2: which is able to control and see how much energy
S2: you are consuming. So we see that one is able
S2: to save, as I said before, up to 30 percent
S2: of electricity bills and in there are certain countries where
S2: there is a time of use tariff as well, and
S2: this is smart home gives you the ability to make
S2: sure that various tariff is low. That is the time
S2: that you're consuming a large part of your electricity. With this,
S2: the paybacks become much more faster off the devices and
S2: of the home energy management system that you use at home.
S2: One more point that I want to say, which is
S2: impacting the use of energy at homes, is the adoption
S2: of electric vehicles. That's something which is new in Singapore,
S2: and it's starting with what we have seen in other
S2: parts of the world that every electric vehicle that comes
S2: in a home increases the consumption by 30 to 40 percent.
S2: That would be applicable here. So even if you're living
S2: in an HDB home and you have an electric vehicle
S2: charging it at home, it is going to add that
S2: much to your electricity bill. Now, the way to manage
S2: that in, it's different for from when you're living in
S2: a single family home versus when you are living in
S2: a high rise apartment. The advent of electric vehicles is
S2: going to bring the adoption of smart home devices and
S2: technologies like wiser, even more prevalent going forward where we
S2: have solar adoption in parts of the world. There is
S2: a classic saying that we have that we need to
S2: be because the payback gets so much faster because you're
S2: charging at home because your electricity bill is actually going
S2: up by 30 percent. So those of us who in
S2: Singapore were living in individual homes and need to look
S2: at getting solar together with the electric. And maybe that's
S2: a phenomenon that we would see a period of time.
S1: Yeah. Manage that point on electric vehicles. That's very interesting.
S1: Did you actually see that spike in usage translate into
S1: energy usage at home? And actually Home's electrical systems are
S1: built for that kind of purpose? I mean, we saw
S1: a lot of incidents, but was it really such a
S1: significant uptick that that you yourselves see as a concerning
S1: pattern in usage
S2: like consumption in homes? Yes. I mean, you were charging
S2: and there's the increase that you're having now in order
S2: to make sure that it is done from an electrical
S2: safety perspective, which is also very key. You have your
S2: maximum demand that the electricity utility company imposes on you
S2: that you cannot exceed, and therefore you need to have
S2: again technologies that are balancing the total amount of energy
S2: that you're consuming at a particular point of time, including
S2: the one that is used for charging your electric vehicle.
S2: We have seen that, therefore the electrical charging in homes,
S2: while it looks very simple when it is done at
S2: lower loads, but it is something which is going to
S2: add to the complexity. And that's why I said the
S2: adoption of smart home and especially the home energy management systems,
S2: which is going to help you control your energy bill
S2: directly from the electrical panel and regulate it is something
S2: that is going to get more and more prevalent.
S1: You mentioned your company, and I want to talk a
S1: little bit bigger picture now about the work that companies
S1: like yours does. How is your work with architects and
S1: engineers sort of evolving both in terms of working on
S1: older buildings as well as, I would imagine, newer buildings
S1: and newer technology, right? Where is the biggest potential, do
S1: you think, for technology to play in energy efficiency and
S1: emissions reductions? Is it in retrofitting the older buildings and
S1: older systems, or is it in even finding new technologies
S1: for new buildings?
S2: It's a great question, Jamie. Our mission is to be
S2: the digital partner for sustainability and efficiency. Our purpose is
S2: to empower all to make the most of the energy
S2: and resources, bridging progress and sustainability. For all that Schneider
S2: we call this life is on for everybody, whether it's consumers,
S2: whether it's enterprise businesses, infrastructure and governments, etc. So that's
S2: what we bring when we think of the challenge of
S2: decarbonisation for new buildings. It is relatively easier because when
S2: you're constructing your building, you're already able to bring in
S2: the new technologies right from the word go across what
S2: you are building. Having said that, what you're building new
S2: is a fraction of the total consumption that you're doing.
S2: So the challenge is on the retrofit, which you rightly pointed.
S2: And this is where is the big challenge where you
S2: have to work to see you are able to ensure
S2: that the occupants of whether it's an industry running process
S2: that is there, which is able to ensure that you
S2: keep the things going while you transition into a greener
S2: environment and decarbonize at the same place. That's a big challenge.
S2: So at Schneider Electric, we bring those technologies which are
S2: able to go and to help retrofit systems in such
S2: a manner that you have business continuity as well as
S2: your decarbonisation targets that are built. This is an area
S2: where we have seen, for example, in Europe, that there's
S2: a strong focus from the government in terms of the
S2: subsidy and the support that would be given to retrofit buildings,
S2: for example, and make them decarbonised. And that's what we
S2: have to do. It's not just an issue of Europe.
S2: We will have to do it in Singapore. And I
S2: think the green plan that the Singapore government has, it's
S2: going to address that as well
S1: is fascinating because if we look at it from the
S1: level of what's happening in Asia as well, I would
S1: imagine that in Asia you have a very interesting mix
S1: of both older buildings which need retrofitting, which are built
S1: on perhaps quite inefficient older systems and many of them
S1: in places like India, for example. But you also have
S1: places where there for new buildings are being built, and
S1: the potential for technology is great there too. I imagine
S1: that it must be exciting being able to work in
S1: Asia for a company like Schneider in trying to balance
S1: the two, which one is more difficult or you imagine
S1: there is a bit like trying to fix the bicycle or, yes,
S1: cycling at the same time, especially for the older buildings.
S1: But what's the challenge for places like those cities in India,
S1: Asia here?
S2: First, it's a global issue. You write that it's an
S2: issue in Asia, but it's also a global issue of
S2: how we are able to do that together. The challenge
S2: is clearly being in terms of first, the technology that
S2: is required, which needs to be adapted for each of
S2: those different installations as compared to new build. Because every
S2: building has been built or every process or every industry
S2: has been built at different points of time, and you
S2: need to be able to tailor those solutions for sustainability
S2: for each one of them. One of the other challenges
S2: that we see is in terms of gathering of data. Actually,
S2: I would I should have said that is number one
S2: because it all starts with the data that where do
S2: you want to impact in terms of where is the
S2: biggest impact for decarbonization? And those are the areas within
S2: a given installation that you want to address first and
S2: this is what is there. And then being able to
S2: develop solutions for those installations, which again would be very unique,
S2: is something that is the other challenge that is what
S2: we see ongoing. The other challenges in terms of the
S2: investments that need to be done. We need a strong
S2: commitment from enterprises around taking the columns of sustainability and saying, well,
S2: this is what we want to do and therefore being
S2: convinced that we have to be setting aside some sort
S2: of budget or being looking at financing in order to
S2: do that. This whole area of sustainability is going to
S2: be asking for additional investments and therefore additional opportunities for
S2: different stakeholders. The thing about sustainability is that it requires
S2: various stakeholders to come together in order to achieve it.
S2: I would say that's the other challenge because. That's something
S2: that does not come naturally to us, and that's what
S2: we have to be doing.
S1: Yeah, I'm going to use that opportunity to talk about
S1: Singapore a bit more specifically from your perspective, how do
S1: you see players like, for example, the private developers so
S1: far getting on board sort of the sustainability the green
S1: building journey? Are they moving fast on their own or
S1: is a lot of the action still coming from, for example,
S1: the regulator from business of the world trying to regulate
S1: and push people on green marks and things like that?
S1: Is Singapore and our built sector? Do you think able
S1: to lead the way for Asia in terms of its
S1: energy efficiency within buildings?
S2: I would first say that kudos to the Singapore government
S2: because it's taken the step of defining the green plan.
S2: The Singapore government and the ministers have been communicating really
S2: around the sense of urgency for using the carbon emissions
S2: to different policies. This has been taken up by the
S2: industry here. What we see is that there are corporations
S2: which have a chief sustainability officer, and it goes back
S2: to what we discussed before that it's something that starts
S2: with the strategy of a company that sustainability is a
S2: core part of the strategy, and it starts by having
S2: a CSO or an equivalent in a corporation. And we
S2: see that a lot of companies are having that in
S2: Singapore mode building as well as non buildings. And therefore
S2: I'm very optimistic and confident that we will work together
S2: to drive this, of course. So again, it's the government
S2: and the companies or companies like Schneider. We have very
S2: specialised energy sustainability services division, which is bringing these solutions
S2: to our customers and spatially focused on the retrofit on
S2: the existing installations because that's where the biggest challenge lie.
S1: On that note, we've been trying to go from the
S1: small picture to the big picture to a global picture
S1: as we sort of close off. Maybe we saw a
S1: crystal ball a little bit and we're looking to the
S1: future in Singapore, let's say, in 20 years or maybe
S1: even less, let's say 10 years in terms of what
S1: our average home looks like. As you talk about retrofitting
S1: and vision for us, what a typical HDB home is
S1: going to look like. If Snyder had free reign to
S1: develop this new energy efficient home, what would it look like?
S1: What would a climate friendly, energy efficient home in Singapore
S1: look like in 20 years? That's vastly different from what
S1: it may be now.
S2: The home of the future is going to be a
S2: sustainable and smart home. That's what we foresee in the future.
S2: It would be at home, which is Italy being a
S2: net zero home, which is consuming as much as as
S2: it is able to to generate through the mix of
S2: actions that we have inside the home and is not
S2: contributing to the greenhouse emissions in Singapore. That's something I
S2: would say would be the vision that we should have
S2: is how we are able to get to net zero
S2: homes in Singapore.
S1: I want to therefore use that as a last question.
S1: If let's say I see, you know, I'm going to
S1: give my own home a target. The Singapore government has
S1: set a specific target yet for when it reaches net zero.
S1: But let's say I say I want to get to
S1: net zero home sooner rather than later. What are the
S1: immediate steps that I could take for myself?
S2: It starts with the changes in terms of the energy
S2: consciousness that we have in the home. That's a starting point,
S2: coupled with the smart home and the home energy management system.
S2: And if you're able to move on top of that
S2: with renewables being generated at home like solar is what
S2: I would say would be an ideal that we would
S2: like to see in a home coupled with storage, which
S2: we did not talk about today. But if you add
S2: storage to that, meaning that you are a self-sustainable home,
S2: your smart home, your resilient home and you are home
S2: on top of that.
S1: Since you mentioned storage, then end off on that. How
S1: are you going to be able to do that within
S1: individual homes?
S2: Well, today we are in individual homes, so storage is
S2: clearly something that is evolving very, very fast and then
S2: together with storage. There are different technologies around creation of
S2: virtual private networks. That means you are linked to solar
S2: in your home, you are charging it. And when the
S2: sun is away in times of where you have weather conditions,
S2: you know, we just saw one in the US right
S2: now with EDA. If some kind of unfortunate event happens,
S2: you are completely resilient. You're able to power yourself. At
S2: the same time, I was talking about virtual private network technologies,
S2: which are making sure that you are able to share
S2: your power within a community or even a larger geography
S2: that is very much possible. Again, digitization electrification together with
S2: digitization is, I would say, the single biggest driver for decarbonization,
S2: which is going to change the world in the future.
S1: It certainly sounds as if it's a future that's tremendously
S1: full of potential. We only hope that it gets to
S1: individual homes and. Individual sooner rather than later. On that note,
S1: thank you very much.
S2: Thank you. Thank you, Jimi, for hosting me.
S1: And thanks for listening to the climate conversation. Stay up
S1: to date on CNN's coverage of climate change on CNN
S1: Dot Asia. You can also find this in other senior
S1: podcasts on our website and on iTunes and Spotify. The
S1: team behind this podcast, Christina Robert Insulin and Erin Low.
S1: I'm Jamie Ho again two next week.