1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: This is a C N A podcast. 2 00:00:07,330 --> 00:00:10,219 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to CNN correspondent with me, Steve Lie. 3 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:13,310 Speaker 1: My aim is to bring you beyond the headlines and 4 00:00:13,310 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: behind the scenes with our network of correspondence. This edition 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: is a little different as it serves as a companion 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: piece to our TV version. That is this week with 7 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: an episode called India through the Lives of its women. 8 00:00:25,170 --> 00:00:28,770 Speaker 1: It marks International Women's Day on the eighth of March 9 00:00:32,340 --> 00:00:36,190 Speaker 1: when your mother tells you her life story, the fact 10 00:00:36,190 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 1: that she had no power to decide anything for herself. 11 00:00:39,290 --> 00:00:43,269 Speaker 1: How does that make you feel? I feel terribly sad 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,769 Speaker 1: that her wishes were disregarded, that she was forced to 13 00:00:46,770 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: marry early? I know that's why she expects us to 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: do more with our lives. She doesn't want us to 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:53,980 Speaker 1: go through what she did. 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,220 Speaker 1: It's fair to say that the progress of women has 17 00:00:59,220 --> 00:01:02,210 Speaker 1: been far from even in India. In fact, according to 18 00:01:02,210 --> 00:01:06,780 Speaker 1: the World Economic Forum, India ranked 135th out of 146 19 00:01:06,780 --> 00:01:10,380 Speaker 1: countries on its global gender gap index. That's despite the 20 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:12,850 Speaker 1: fact that it is set to become the world's fastest-growing 21 00:01:12,850 --> 00:01:16,020 Speaker 1: economy and also the world's most populous nation of over 22 00:01:16,020 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: 1.4 billion people. 23 00:01:18,050 --> 00:01:19,670 Speaker 1: But don't just take my word for it to tell 24 00:01:19,670 --> 00:01:22,070 Speaker 1: you more about what it's like for women in India. 25 00:01:22,069 --> 00:01:25,289 Speaker 1: In 2023. I'm joined by our new Delhi and Mumbai 26 00:01:25,290 --> 00:01:30,069 Speaker 1: correspondent and Rebecca. Welcome both of you, Steve. Hi, Steve. 27 00:01:30,069 --> 00:01:32,140 Speaker 1: Good to join you. Alright, let's start with a fairly 28 00:01:32,140 --> 00:01:34,539 Speaker 1: broad question for both of you. What's it like to 29 00:01:34,540 --> 00:01:37,390 Speaker 1: be a woman in India today? Who'd like to go first? 30 00:01:37,630 --> 00:01:40,570 Speaker 1: I think I can. I think that's a very, very 31 00:01:40,569 --> 00:01:43,089 Speaker 1: big question and I'll try and do justice to it. 32 00:01:43,100 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: But if I were to answer it briefly, I think 33 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:45,050 Speaker 1: it's 34 00:01:45,060 --> 00:01:48,820 Speaker 1: very empowering because there are so many freedoms that this 35 00:01:48,820 --> 00:01:52,130 Speaker 1: generation enjoys today and takes for granted something we've tried 36 00:01:52,130 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: to illustrate through our stories as well. But some things 37 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,750 Speaker 1: that were unimaginable for our mothers and grandmothers, but it's 38 00:01:57,750 --> 00:02:00,930 Speaker 1: also a sobering reality and a study in contrast because 39 00:02:00,940 --> 00:02:03,100 Speaker 1: I think the point of this episode also is to 40 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: tell viewers around the world that there is no one 41 00:02:05,930 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: single voice of Indian women. They don't speak in what 42 00:02:09,970 --> 00:02:12,060 Speaker 1: one voice about their experiences, about 43 00:02:12,070 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: their ambitions, about the freedoms they want about the possibilities 44 00:02:15,810 --> 00:02:18,350 Speaker 1: that they think are realistic in their lives. But there 45 00:02:18,350 --> 00:02:22,020 Speaker 1: is one thing Steve that does underpin almost every Indian 46 00:02:22,020 --> 00:02:26,139 Speaker 1: woman's experience and that is a struggle to demand more 47 00:02:26,139 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: in their personal and professional lives and also perseverance because, 48 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,700 Speaker 1: you know, we're seeing how there is change their more 49 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:35,420 Speaker 1: women out and about in public spaces. Like I said, 50 00:02:35,419 --> 00:02:37,430 Speaker 1: there is more freedom. The fact that we were able 51 00:02:37,430 --> 00:02:39,070 Speaker 1: to get so many of these women to 52 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,820 Speaker 1: talk to us about their personal lives is something that 53 00:02:41,830 --> 00:02:45,090 Speaker 1: would have possibly been impossible a few decades ago because 54 00:02:45,090 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: of the kind of patriarchy and stigma that is associated 55 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,300 Speaker 1: with women speaking frankly, especially to the media. But some 56 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:57,030 Speaker 1: things that still haven't changed is how most women experienced 57 00:02:57,030 --> 00:03:00,310 Speaker 1: patriarchy first at home. It's how they're treated differently from 58 00:03:00,310 --> 00:03:03,030 Speaker 1: the very moment that they're born. But there are attempts 59 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:05,660 Speaker 1: like Rebecca and I tell you through these stories to 60 00:03:07,150 --> 00:03:09,130 Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. I agree with a lot of what 61 00:03:09,130 --> 00:03:11,710 Speaker 1: Nee ha said. But particularly for me, I spend a 62 00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: lot of time reporting in Mumbai, which is India's financial 63 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,130 Speaker 1: capital where I'm based and looking at the business world here. 64 00:03:18,130 --> 00:03:20,829 Speaker 1: It's really encouraging to see that there are a lot 65 00:03:20,830 --> 00:03:25,030 Speaker 1: of women who are rising to some of the top positions. 66 00:03:25,030 --> 00:03:28,230 Speaker 1: They're holding more senior roles in companies and also a 67 00:03:28,230 --> 00:03:32,050 Speaker 1: lot of female entrepreneurs. I meet a lot of really 68 00:03:32,050 --> 00:03:33,090 Speaker 1: inspiring will 69 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:36,210 Speaker 1: men who started businesses, some that have gone on to 70 00:03:36,210 --> 00:03:40,060 Speaker 1: become really massive companies in India, very, very successful, that 71 00:03:40,060 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: is really inspiring. But at the same time, there is 72 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,150 Speaker 1: this challenge as well that you see that there are 73 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,230 Speaker 1: still not a lot of women at the very, very 74 00:03:48,230 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: top of a lot of the biggest companies in India 75 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,690 Speaker 1: and there's still more to be done. Of course, that's 76 00:03:53,690 --> 00:03:56,550 Speaker 1: a problem that's faced in many countries around the world. 77 00:03:56,550 --> 00:03:58,810 Speaker 1: So while there is a lot of progress, you can 78 00:03:58,810 --> 00:04:00,100 Speaker 1: still see that there's 79 00:04:00,110 --> 00:04:03,620 Speaker 1: more room for women to really grow, particularly given the 80 00:04:03,620 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: skills that they have the education now that they're going through, 81 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,390 Speaker 1: they really have a lot to offer definitely progress, but 82 00:04:10,390 --> 00:04:13,710 Speaker 1: still more to be done. It seems, and the experiences 83 00:04:13,710 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: of women across India is obviously incredibly varied, depending on 84 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,539 Speaker 1: their socioeconomic situation. The family that they're born into, those 85 00:04:20,540 --> 00:04:23,580 Speaker 1: sorts of things tell us how you put this TV 86 00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:26,100 Speaker 1: episode together, the stories you're telling and some of the 87 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:26,990 Speaker 1: people that you spoke to 88 00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:29,349 Speaker 1: Steve will be frank. We've been trying to tell a 89 00:04:29,350 --> 00:04:31,990 Speaker 1: story like this for a very long time. But you know, 90 00:04:31,990 --> 00:04:34,580 Speaker 1: as is often the case with India, sometimes the more 91 00:04:34,580 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: horrific headlines where you have the rapes where you have, 92 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,050 Speaker 1: you know, crimes against women. They tend to grab everyone's 93 00:04:40,050 --> 00:04:43,410 Speaker 1: imagination and the focus entirely comes on to the issue 94 00:04:43,410 --> 00:04:45,810 Speaker 1: of safety of women. But what we try to do 95 00:04:45,810 --> 00:04:48,390 Speaker 1: this time around was we try to tell the story 96 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,810 Speaker 1: of India and its progress through the eyes of its 97 00:04:50,810 --> 00:04:53,660 Speaker 1: women because there are very important demographic, they make up 98 00:04:53,660 --> 00:04:55,970 Speaker 1: nearly half the country's population. And 99 00:04:55,985 --> 00:04:59,315 Speaker 1: the idea was to give the viewers a sampler like 100 00:04:59,315 --> 00:05:02,114 Speaker 1: you said, it's not one experience, it's not the same 101 00:05:02,115 --> 00:05:04,315 Speaker 1: even in, in a city like Delhi, in a city 102 00:05:04,315 --> 00:05:07,255 Speaker 1: like Mumbai, which the fairly progressive places to be in. 103 00:05:07,265 --> 00:05:10,245 Speaker 1: So we decided we'll pick different families and we'll try 104 00:05:10,245 --> 00:05:13,745 Speaker 1: and speak to different generations and, you know, it's hugely 105 00:05:13,745 --> 00:05:16,905 Speaker 1: empowering because we're both women journalists, Rebecca and I, we 106 00:05:16,904 --> 00:05:19,435 Speaker 1: do this every day where we bring you stories from India. 107 00:05:19,445 --> 00:05:22,175 Speaker 1: But a lot of the women we spoke to don't 108 00:05:22,185 --> 00:05:24,450 Speaker 1: usually exercise the power 109 00:05:24,690 --> 00:05:27,630 Speaker 1: to have their voice heard. Some don't have the option 110 00:05:27,630 --> 00:05:30,390 Speaker 1: to do that and some have possibly frankly never thought 111 00:05:30,390 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: about telling their stories to the world. So we wanted 112 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: to give them that platform where they could tell you 113 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,710 Speaker 1: their story, their experiences, the challenges they still face. And 114 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,460 Speaker 1: the idea was to let them be the narrators and 115 00:05:42,460 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: for us to just be there to ask them the 116 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,950 Speaker 1: questions and nudge them along. And Rebecca, an important aspect 117 00:05:46,950 --> 00:05:48,989 Speaker 1: of this was also to tell the stories of different 118 00:05:48,990 --> 00:05:51,930 Speaker 1: generations of women in India to really sort of highlight 119 00:05:51,930 --> 00:05:52,780 Speaker 1: and bring home 120 00:05:52,935 --> 00:05:57,355 Speaker 1: how fast moving India has been over recent decades, but 121 00:05:57,355 --> 00:05:59,755 Speaker 1: also where you're coming from. Yes, that's right. And you 122 00:05:59,755 --> 00:06:02,515 Speaker 1: really see the difference how things have changed over the 123 00:06:02,515 --> 00:06:06,034 Speaker 1: years when you talk from one generation to the next. 124 00:06:06,035 --> 00:06:09,075 Speaker 1: If you look 20 or 30 years ago, it really 125 00:06:09,075 --> 00:06:11,845 Speaker 1: was challenging for a lot of women to even think 126 00:06:11,845 --> 00:06:15,385 Speaker 1: about going to work in kind of corporate India or 127 00:06:15,385 --> 00:06:18,865 Speaker 1: something or take up these jobs in the field of engineering, 128 00:06:18,865 --> 00:06:20,335 Speaker 1: which is what we looked at. We looked at one 129 00:06:20,335 --> 00:06:21,315 Speaker 1: of India's biggest 130 00:06:21,410 --> 00:06:25,330 Speaker 1: engineering and construction firms and one of the women that 131 00:06:25,339 --> 00:06:28,550 Speaker 1: I spoke to she joined 15 years ago. And she 132 00:06:28,550 --> 00:06:31,580 Speaker 1: said even at that point, there were hardly any women 133 00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:34,310 Speaker 1: at all. It was really, really a big challenge for her. 134 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,980 Speaker 1: She said she was the only person in her family 135 00:06:36,980 --> 00:06:39,870 Speaker 1: and among her friends that even did something like that. 136 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,820 Speaker 1: But now if we fast forward 15 years to the 137 00:06:42,830 --> 00:06:46,220 Speaker 1: younger engineer, female engineer that we spoke to, you know, 138 00:06:46,220 --> 00:06:49,169 Speaker 1: she said, actually a lot more women and doing things 139 00:06:49,170 --> 00:06:49,870 Speaker 1: like this, 140 00:06:49,885 --> 00:06:51,975 Speaker 1: there are a lot more women who are going into 141 00:06:51,975 --> 00:06:55,424 Speaker 1: that field. They're feeling really, really empowered to do that 142 00:06:55,425 --> 00:06:58,115 Speaker 1: kind of thing. They're not being held back because of 143 00:06:58,115 --> 00:07:02,105 Speaker 1: their gender, they're having those opportunities. Although we have to 144 00:07:02,105 --> 00:07:03,905 Speaker 1: remember at the same time that there are still a 145 00:07:03,904 --> 00:07:06,085 Speaker 1: lot of women in parts of the country, particularly in 146 00:07:06,095 --> 00:07:10,475 Speaker 1: rural areas who might not be given that level of education, 147 00:07:10,525 --> 00:07:13,835 Speaker 1: they might be married off early, they still don't have 148 00:07:13,835 --> 00:07:16,775 Speaker 1: those opportunities. So it's not across the board that we 149 00:07:16,775 --> 00:07:18,350 Speaker 1: can say that all women in India 150 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,930 Speaker 1: do have these opportunities. That's definitely not the case. There 151 00:07:20,930 --> 00:07:23,790 Speaker 1: are still a lot of people who are being held back, 152 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,790 Speaker 1: but certainly over the generations, there has really been that change. 153 00:07:26,790 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: And if you now speak to people who are in 154 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,330 Speaker 1: their teens in Mumbai, for example, they're really forward thinking, 155 00:07:32,330 --> 00:07:34,790 Speaker 1: they're very open minded about a lot of things. They 156 00:07:34,790 --> 00:07:38,210 Speaker 1: have very different ideas on things like gender. And that's really, 157 00:07:38,210 --> 00:07:41,170 Speaker 1: really interesting to hear just to see those changes how 158 00:07:41,170 --> 00:07:44,420 Speaker 1: rapidly people's mindset is changing. But it's still going to 159 00:07:44,420 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: take some time because a lot of those kind of 160 00:07:46,835 --> 00:07:52,015 Speaker 1: patriarchal attitudes are very, very deeply embedded in Indian culture. 161 00:07:52,075 --> 00:07:54,205 Speaker 1: I just wanted to add to what Rebecca said, something 162 00:07:54,205 --> 00:07:56,345 Speaker 1: that really stood out was how the young women in 163 00:07:56,345 --> 00:07:58,685 Speaker 1: the stories we spoke to, whether they were in the 164 00:07:58,685 --> 00:08:01,535 Speaker 1: village in the state of Uttar Pradesh, whether they were 165 00:08:01,535 --> 00:08:04,325 Speaker 1: in Mumbai or whether they were in Delhi, they all 166 00:08:04,325 --> 00:08:07,665 Speaker 1: were ambitious, they wanted nothing to do with the patriarchal 167 00:08:07,665 --> 00:08:10,685 Speaker 1: expectations of getting married early and settling down and getting 168 00:08:10,685 --> 00:08:13,325 Speaker 1: stuck at home, working in the kitchen. And for me, 169 00:08:13,325 --> 00:08:15,300 Speaker 1: I think that was remarkable, the fact that these wom 170 00:08:15,310 --> 00:08:19,430 Speaker 1: have the agency to speak to articulate those ambitions and 171 00:08:19,430 --> 00:08:22,470 Speaker 1: the fact that their mothers and their grandmothers are supporting 172 00:08:22,470 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: them every step of the way. There is still resistance, 173 00:08:24,910 --> 00:08:27,670 Speaker 1: especially in rural India from the men who think think 174 00:08:27,670 --> 00:08:30,050 Speaker 1: should be a certain way. But the women there are 175 00:08:30,050 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: having nothing to do with it. And I think for me, 176 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,140 Speaker 1: that was so lovely to see, especially the main profile 177 00:08:35,140 --> 00:08:37,540 Speaker 1: in the rural case study. That the story we profiled 178 00:08:37,540 --> 00:08:41,410 Speaker 1: me ha my namesake. She's this fierce woman who will 179 00:08:41,410 --> 00:08:43,050 Speaker 1: speak her mind. And I told her you worried, you 180 00:08:43,050 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: know that 181 00:08:43,785 --> 00:08:45,515 Speaker 1: pressure for you to get married early. Do you think 182 00:08:45,515 --> 00:08:48,295 Speaker 1: your father is gonna cave and get you married within 183 00:08:48,295 --> 00:08:50,695 Speaker 1: the next year? She took a pause. She looked me 184 00:08:50,695 --> 00:08:52,315 Speaker 1: dead in the eye and said I am going to 185 00:08:52,315 --> 00:08:55,165 Speaker 1: fulfill my dreams at any cost. And I swear I 186 00:08:55,165 --> 00:08:57,495 Speaker 1: got goose bumps in the moment. And that's something you 187 00:08:57,495 --> 00:08:59,935 Speaker 1: should watch for in the story as well because it 188 00:08:59,934 --> 00:09:02,675 Speaker 1: was completely no nonsense. And like Rebecca said, there's, there's 189 00:09:02,675 --> 00:09:05,835 Speaker 1: so open minded, their so ambitious and I think that 190 00:09:05,835 --> 00:09:07,975 Speaker 1: is also the story of India and I think this 191 00:09:07,975 --> 00:09:11,725 Speaker 1: will define India story going ahead across the many generations 192 00:09:11,725 --> 00:09:12,255 Speaker 1: to come. 193 00:09:12,620 --> 00:09:15,890 Speaker 1: Yeah, fascinating stuff. And yeah, men, hey, I know it's 194 00:09:15,890 --> 00:09:18,490 Speaker 1: all about International Women's Day and the eyes of India 195 00:09:18,490 --> 00:09:21,010 Speaker 1: through its women. But we will briefly touch on, on 196 00:09:21,010 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: men because they do play a key part in sort 197 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: of the patriarchal society in India. We get your thoughts 198 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,770 Speaker 1: on that in just a bit next on CNN. Correspondent 199 00:09:27,790 --> 00:09:30,350 Speaker 1: Nina and Rebecca will tell you areas of progress for 200 00:09:30,350 --> 00:09:33,130 Speaker 1: women in India and also what more needs to be done. 201 00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:39,990 Speaker 1: Hi, my name is Julie. You and I'm the host 202 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,670 Speaker 1: of the climate conversations. Each week I speak to guests 203 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,290 Speaker 1: who give us tips on how we can protect the 204 00:09:46,290 --> 00:09:49,550 Speaker 1: earth every once in a while. We also have interesting 205 00:09:49,550 --> 00:09:54,090 Speaker 1: stories like how Singapore's first Tesla owner prompted billionaire 206 00:09:54,105 --> 00:09:56,915 Speaker 1: Elon Musk to reach out to Prime Minister Lee Hsien 207 00:09:56,915 --> 00:10:01,125 Speaker 1: Loong or chef who makes the juiciest burgers from only 208 00:10:01,125 --> 00:10:05,155 Speaker 1: plant based ingredients. For more stories like these look for 209 00:10:05,155 --> 00:10:08,345 Speaker 1: the climate, conversations under C N A and me, listen 210 00:10:08,355 --> 00:10:10,934 Speaker 1: apps or wherever you get your podcasts. 211 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 2: I am at that stage of life where I need 212 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,750 Speaker 2: to think about other things other than my job, like 213 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,100 Speaker 2: starting a family or something like that. So, yeah, definitely 214 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:28,380 Speaker 2: my parents are into that. But then what they were 215 00:10:28,380 --> 00:10:31,210 Speaker 2: really scared about when I was choosing this field. 216 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,849 Speaker 2: Exactly what you said, like getting a prospective groom for me. 217 00:10:34,940 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: The men today, they are far more open minded than 218 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,990 Speaker 2: what they think they actually would like to have a 219 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,220 Speaker 2: partner who would be more hardworking than 220 00:10:46,220 --> 00:10:49,310 Speaker 1: them. That's Bhavani lecture me a 26 year old civil 221 00:10:49,309 --> 00:10:52,410 Speaker 1: engineer in Mumbai talking about the pressure of balancing a 222 00:10:52,410 --> 00:10:55,620 Speaker 1: career and family. You're back with me, Steve lie along 223 00:10:55,620 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: with me and Rebecca. 224 00:10:56,929 --> 00:10:59,380 Speaker 1: Rebecca. You spent some time with Havana. The issue of 225 00:10:59,380 --> 00:11:02,330 Speaker 1: marriage for women in India is a complicated one. I 226 00:11:02,330 --> 00:11:04,820 Speaker 1: understand that arranged marriages are still very much the norm. 227 00:11:05,170 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, there are figures that show that arranged marriages account 228 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,980 Speaker 1: for about 90% of marriages in India, which is quite 229 00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:15,590 Speaker 1: incredible really. And we think of India often as being 230 00:11:15,590 --> 00:11:19,030 Speaker 1: such a modern society now and that surprises some people. However, 231 00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:22,210 Speaker 1: having said that we have to remember the fact that 232 00:11:22,210 --> 00:11:25,870 Speaker 1: these are not necessarily forced marriages, as such although they're 233 00:11:25,870 --> 00:11:28,060 Speaker 1: arranged in the case of some 234 00:11:28,192 --> 00:11:32,202 Speaker 1: like Wagner, who's now starting to think about getting married 235 00:11:32,202 --> 00:11:35,802 Speaker 1: when it comes to her potential wedding, choosing a groom. 236 00:11:35,812 --> 00:11:39,532 Speaker 1: What's likely to happen is her parents might actually find 237 00:11:39,532 --> 00:11:43,882 Speaker 1: somebody or some men who might be suitable. But Bhavna 238 00:11:43,881 --> 00:11:47,252 Speaker 1: would meet those men and she would ultimately have her 239 00:11:47,252 --> 00:11:49,602 Speaker 1: say she would have a choice if she doesn't like 240 00:11:49,602 --> 00:11:50,972 Speaker 1: the guy. It's very like, 241 00:11:50,994 --> 00:11:54,414 Speaker 1: I'm sure that in her case, there's no way that 242 00:11:54,414 --> 00:11:56,654 Speaker 1: she would be forced to marry him. She would have 243 00:11:56,664 --> 00:11:59,394 Speaker 1: her say her parents would just pick out some people 244 00:11:59,394 --> 00:12:02,094 Speaker 1: that they think are suitable for her and they'll find 245 00:12:02,094 --> 00:12:05,203 Speaker 1: those maybe in the local area, people who are perhaps 246 00:12:05,203 --> 00:12:08,284 Speaker 1: from a similar background. So that's how it works really. 247 00:12:08,284 --> 00:12:09,884 Speaker 1: But yeah, we have to remember at the same time, 248 00:12:09,884 --> 00:12:12,874 Speaker 1: there are still some forced marriages in India, which is 249 00:12:12,874 --> 00:12:13,884 Speaker 1: really an awful sit. 250 00:12:14,466 --> 00:12:17,276 Speaker 1: But in the majority of cases, these are not simply 251 00:12:17,276 --> 00:12:20,445 Speaker 1: the parents doing some matchmaking for the Children. And of course, 252 00:12:20,446 --> 00:12:23,966 Speaker 1: parents do want what's best for the child in most cases. 253 00:12:23,966 --> 00:12:26,706 Speaker 1: So they're not going to force somebody into something they 254 00:12:26,706 --> 00:12:29,416 Speaker 1: don't want. Okay. That seems like a universal trend of 255 00:12:29,426 --> 00:12:33,076 Speaker 1: parents wanting to be involved in marital decisions of their Children. 256 00:12:33,556 --> 00:12:35,956 Speaker 1: How are things shifting? Then if at all on the 257 00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:36,706 Speaker 1: marriage front, 258 00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:40,050 Speaker 1: I think there is an urban, rural divide here as well. 259 00:12:40,050 --> 00:12:42,410 Speaker 1: There's a socio economic divide here as well. I think 260 00:12:42,410 --> 00:12:45,890 Speaker 1: in rural India, the women we spoke to, they weren't 261 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:48,810 Speaker 1: asked if they were ready to get married. Whether they 262 00:12:48,809 --> 00:12:50,980 Speaker 1: would have a say in getting married at all is 263 00:12:50,980 --> 00:12:54,300 Speaker 1: an unheard of notion, including the younger girls. We've profiled. 264 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:58,570 Speaker 1: We're now 22, and will potentially get married in the 265 00:12:58,570 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: next few years. But like Rebecca was saying in urban India, 266 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: it's a different setup altogether. I don't know if your 267 00:13:04,566 --> 00:13:11,246 Speaker 1: and listeners will remember Indian matchmaking, which yes, I have 268 00:13:11,246 --> 00:13:13,716 Speaker 1: watched a few episodes. Everyone's guilty pleasure, I think during 269 00:13:13,716 --> 00:13:16,856 Speaker 1: the lockdown. Yeah. That's right. I think that also is 270 00:13:16,866 --> 00:13:19,655 Speaker 1: a part of India story. There are matchmakers like this 271 00:13:19,655 --> 00:13:22,886 Speaker 1: who help families come together. And there is this notion 272 00:13:22,886 --> 00:13:25,065 Speaker 1: in India still that when two people get married, it's 273 00:13:25,066 --> 00:13:28,676 Speaker 1: not them getting married, it's their families getting married as well. 274 00:13:28,686 --> 00:13:30,076 Speaker 1: And I think that's where a lot of the social 275 00:13:30,076 --> 00:13:31,066 Speaker 1: pressure comes from. 276 00:13:31,242 --> 00:13:33,521 Speaker 1: But things are changing. Like Rebecca said that even if 277 00:13:33,522 --> 00:13:36,372 Speaker 1: you know, it might be a 5% change. I for example, 278 00:13:36,372 --> 00:13:39,122 Speaker 1: and part of that change as well, I married someone 279 00:13:39,122 --> 00:13:41,172 Speaker 1: outside of my community. I was the first one in 280 00:13:41,172 --> 00:13:44,172 Speaker 1: my family to do that. Initially, there was resistance, but 281 00:13:44,182 --> 00:13:47,642 Speaker 1: everyone's come on board now to celebrate festivals from both sides. 282 00:13:47,642 --> 00:13:50,161 Speaker 1: But at the same time, you also hear of things 283 00:13:50,162 --> 00:13:54,522 Speaker 1: like honor killings. And you hear of pressure, especially in 284 00:13:54,532 --> 00:13:58,301 Speaker 1: rural India where marriage is associated with breast, 285 00:13:58,318 --> 00:14:01,578 Speaker 1: teach who you marry the background. They come from the cast, 286 00:14:01,578 --> 00:14:04,128 Speaker 1: they come from, these are challenges that persist every day. 287 00:14:04,128 --> 00:14:07,438 Speaker 1: But there is change because of education because of campaigns 288 00:14:07,438 --> 00:14:09,747 Speaker 1: run by the government. And like we've been saying through 289 00:14:09,748 --> 00:14:13,328 Speaker 1: the episode, I think the younger generation don't necessarily identify 290 00:14:13,328 --> 00:14:18,168 Speaker 1: with these ideas of patriarchy and forced marriages especially and 291 00:14:18,168 --> 00:14:22,668 Speaker 1: Rebecca another measure of equality in a country is equal pay. 292 00:14:22,678 --> 00:14:25,378 Speaker 1: How does India fair in that regard? Yeah, that's def 293 00:14:25,534 --> 00:14:28,604 Speaker 1: Still a big problem that we identified while making this 294 00:14:28,604 --> 00:14:32,364 Speaker 1: piece in particular because women are clearly not getting paid 295 00:14:32,364 --> 00:14:35,074 Speaker 1: as much as their male counterparts. There are figures that 296 00:14:35,074 --> 00:14:38,504 Speaker 1: show that women are getting paid 28% less than men 297 00:14:38,504 --> 00:14:40,464 Speaker 1: in India. However, that is an improvement if we go 298 00:14:40,464 --> 00:14:44,654 Speaker 1: back to 1994, apparently, that figure was 48% less, which 299 00:14:44,654 --> 00:14:47,374 Speaker 1: is just really, really awful. So at least there are 300 00:14:47,374 --> 00:14:51,874 Speaker 1: signs that it's improving, but clearly women are getting paid 301 00:14:51,874 --> 00:14:52,454 Speaker 1: less and that's 302 00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:55,700 Speaker 1: not necessarily as well because of their levels of education 303 00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: and so on. It seems that even women with greater 304 00:14:58,570 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: education might get paid less from the conversations we've had particularly, 305 00:15:02,770 --> 00:15:05,510 Speaker 1: for example. So Aparna says that she gets paid less 306 00:15:05,510 --> 00:15:08,660 Speaker 1: than her husband, even though she's actually got a higher 307 00:15:08,660 --> 00:15:12,150 Speaker 1: level of education. And the fact that there's this pay 308 00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: gap is also a reason why women are leaving the 309 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,060 Speaker 1: workforce in India. What's really surprising despite all this progress 310 00:15:19,060 --> 00:15:19,530 Speaker 1: that has been. 311 00:15:19,546 --> 00:15:22,146 Speaker 1: And you can see women across companies taking up these 312 00:15:22,146 --> 00:15:26,246 Speaker 1: different roles, more responsibilities. There's actually a drop in female 313 00:15:26,246 --> 00:15:31,016 Speaker 1: participation in the workforce which fell to an estimated 19% 314 00:15:31,026 --> 00:15:35,306 Speaker 1: down from 26% a decade earlier. And it's believed that 315 00:15:35,306 --> 00:15:39,666 Speaker 1: during the COVID-19 pandemic, even more women left the workforce. 316 00:15:39,666 --> 00:15:42,176 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons behind that is that the 317 00:15:42,176 --> 00:15:45,616 Speaker 1: pay gap, the fact that if somebody earns less than 318 00:15:45,616 --> 00:15:46,606 Speaker 1: their husband. 319 00:15:46,622 --> 00:15:49,022 Speaker 1: and one person is going to stay at home, it 320 00:15:49,022 --> 00:15:51,032 Speaker 1: is going to be the woman, she's earning less that 321 00:15:51,032 --> 00:15:54,092 Speaker 1: the man will support the family through his greater pay. 322 00:15:54,092 --> 00:15:57,212 Speaker 1: And also there is the fact that women generally are 323 00:15:57,252 --> 00:16:00,172 Speaker 1: expected to take on more of the household responsibilities. We 324 00:16:00,172 --> 00:16:03,342 Speaker 1: saw that with subpoena, for example, who's much more educated 325 00:16:03,342 --> 00:16:05,722 Speaker 1: than her husband, she's doing the same job if not 326 00:16:05,732 --> 00:16:08,822 Speaker 1: more work in her job, but she also takes care 327 00:16:08,822 --> 00:16:11,042 Speaker 1: of all of the household she oversees and it's all 328 00:16:11,042 --> 00:16:13,682 Speaker 1: of the household responsibilities and has much more 329 00:16:13,698 --> 00:16:16,318 Speaker 1: her role in cooking and looking after the Children, she's 330 00:16:16,318 --> 00:16:19,868 Speaker 1: having to juggle all of that. But certainly it's worrying 331 00:16:19,868 --> 00:16:22,328 Speaker 1: to see that women are leaving the workforce and Indian 332 00:16:22,328 --> 00:16:24,688 Speaker 1: that happens to be one factor. But also the fact 333 00:16:24,688 --> 00:16:28,218 Speaker 1: that there's pressure on women to take on the household responsibilities, 334 00:16:28,218 --> 00:16:31,628 Speaker 1: childcare is also a challenge. So this is something that's 335 00:16:31,628 --> 00:16:35,098 Speaker 1: kind of puzzling at the same time that despite the progress, 336 00:16:35,098 --> 00:16:37,858 Speaker 1: there are fewer women participating in the workforce. And that's 337 00:16:37,858 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: also a big challenge for the country's economy because in 338 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,900 Speaker 1: growing economy, and in fact points out that if you 339 00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:47,570 Speaker 1: have more women participating, obviously the economy is going to 340 00:16:47,570 --> 00:16:50,870 Speaker 1: grow much faster in India is losing trillions of dollars 341 00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: because of the fact that not enough women are participating 342 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,390 Speaker 1: in the workforce now is a good time to bring 343 00:16:56,390 --> 00:16:58,500 Speaker 1: in the patriarchy then, which we sort of teased a 344 00:16:58,500 --> 00:17:01,580 Speaker 1: bit earlier. I know it's a podcast marking International Women's Day, 345 00:17:01,580 --> 00:17:04,070 Speaker 1: but I have to ask about men in India. I 346 00:17:04,070 --> 00:17:06,390 Speaker 1: don't know if you've heard the expression men of quality 347 00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:07,780 Speaker 1: don't fear equality 348 00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:11,109 Speaker 1: are things changing. I think it depends on who you ask. 349 00:17:11,109 --> 00:17:13,330 Speaker 1: I think a lot of Indian men will say yes, 350 00:17:13,340 --> 00:17:16,350 Speaker 1: not all men, we've heard this repeatedly as well, right? 351 00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:18,660 Speaker 1: Like not just for the me too movement, but also 352 00:17:18,660 --> 00:17:22,970 Speaker 1: generally saying we're progressive, we understand that women need more agency, 353 00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:25,510 Speaker 1: they need freedom to exercise that agency. And it's true. 354 00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:27,949 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the case studies that we'll profile 355 00:17:27,950 --> 00:17:30,770 Speaker 1: in the run up to the Women's Day episode is 356 00:17:30,770 --> 00:17:33,810 Speaker 1: this lady called Marcia. She's a lawyer. Her husband is 357 00:17:33,810 --> 00:17:35,770 Speaker 1: a media executive and he describe 358 00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: the relationship as a badly managed cricket team that they 359 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,149 Speaker 1: both interchangeably play captain and vice captain for. And I 360 00:17:43,150 --> 00:17:45,619 Speaker 1: thought that's wonderful. Right. Like here's a couple, they're sharing 361 00:17:45,619 --> 00:17:49,110 Speaker 1: household responsibilities. There isn't an expectation that the woman will 362 00:17:49,109 --> 00:17:51,700 Speaker 1: manage the kids in the home. And that is true 363 00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: for a lot of urban Indian houses. But I think 364 00:17:54,650 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: across the board that change is something that's not trickled down, 365 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,709 Speaker 1: especially to, you know, the poorer families in rural India 366 00:18:01,710 --> 00:18:03,570 Speaker 1: as well. And one thing 367 00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: That India has also struggled with is the issue of 368 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,020 Speaker 1: violence against women from their own partners. I think there 369 00:18:10,020 --> 00:18:13,790 Speaker 1: was in 2021, the police across the country received one 370 00:18:13,790 --> 00:18:18,230 Speaker 1: complaint about domestic violence or cruelty by partner every four minutes. 371 00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: And there was a government survey that said that had 40% 372 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,110 Speaker 1: of women and 38% men saying that it's okay for 373 00:18:24,109 --> 00:18:26,390 Speaker 1: a man to beat his wife if she disrespected her 374 00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:29,190 Speaker 1: in laws. If she neglected her homework, Children went out 375 00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:31,389 Speaker 1: without telling him didn't cook properly. So 376 00:18:31,580 --> 00:18:33,909 Speaker 1: I think, you know, this is the patriarchy that we 377 00:18:33,910 --> 00:18:36,609 Speaker 1: talk about. There are a lot more men and women 378 00:18:36,609 --> 00:18:39,629 Speaker 1: who are educated now, but it's very difficult to shake 379 00:18:39,630 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: off the shackles of patriarchy because it's so deeply intention. 380 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,229 Speaker 1: I think it's got to do with how girls and 381 00:18:45,230 --> 00:18:47,450 Speaker 1: boys are raised from a very young age. India has 382 00:18:47,450 --> 00:18:51,300 Speaker 1: a big problem of female infanticide when a boy is born. 383 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:51,730 Speaker 1: Even today 384 00:18:51,740 --> 00:18:54,910 Speaker 1: you will have families congratulate you. A girl is looked 385 00:18:54,910 --> 00:18:57,310 Speaker 1: at as a burden because she'll eventually have to get married. 386 00:18:57,310 --> 00:18:59,340 Speaker 1: You have to pay dowry for her. And that sort 387 00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: of thinking starts at your own home and then just 388 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,570 Speaker 1: sort of, it's like a domino effect. You're tackling that 389 00:19:04,580 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: in every phase of life throughout. Of course, like I said, 390 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,629 Speaker 1: it doesn't apply to everyone, but it is largely a 391 00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:11,330 Speaker 1: reality for any 392 00:19:12,330 --> 00:19:15,220 Speaker 1: Rebecca your thoughts. Yes, it's nice to see that in 393 00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:18,770 Speaker 1: the examples that we profiled, they both had very positive 394 00:19:18,770 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: attitudes about men and the men that we spoke to 395 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,250 Speaker 1: in the story also had very encouraging attitudes. Although this 396 00:19:24,250 --> 00:19:26,500 Speaker 1: is not the case across all men in the country. 397 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:30,750 Speaker 1: These were examples where men were very supportive of women, 398 00:19:30,750 --> 00:19:35,050 Speaker 1: for example, so partner who's the senior engineer, her husband sank. 399 00:19:35,050 --> 00:19:37,470 Speaker 1: It is also an engineer as well and he just 400 00:19:37,470 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: has the 401 00:19:38,530 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: greatest respect for his wife. He was talking so proudly 402 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: about her, how she'd achieved so much in her job 403 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,550 Speaker 1: in her education. And you could really tell that he 404 00:19:47,550 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: was really just so impressed with everything that she was doing. 405 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: And it's really nice to see that there are men 406 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,070 Speaker 1: that do have those attitudes, although of course, that's not 407 00:19:56,070 --> 00:20:00,290 Speaker 1: across the country and across all men. And Barbara also 408 00:20:00,290 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: was very positive about men. She said that actually there 409 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:04,710 Speaker 1: then 410 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:11,250 Speaker 1: not as bad as we think men men do encouraging 411 00:20:11,250 --> 00:20:14,730 Speaker 1: women to work and actually they're happy if their wife 412 00:20:14,730 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: is just as hard working or more hardworking than them. 413 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,580 Speaker 1: Perhaps men are more willing to now start to look 414 00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: at taking a bit of a back seat or there 415 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 1: may be some of them becoming happier to take on 416 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,970 Speaker 1: some of the household duties rather than just going out 417 00:20:27,970 --> 00:20:30,909 Speaker 1: to work. So, attitudes are changing clearly. 418 00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:34,090 Speaker 1: Yes, it's good to highlight these stories where the attitudes 419 00:20:34,090 --> 00:20:36,420 Speaker 1: are changing because the more that people see that that 420 00:20:36,420 --> 00:20:38,660 Speaker 1: is the norm and the way forward than it might 421 00:20:38,660 --> 00:20:41,780 Speaker 1: encourage similar behavior across the board. This is a question 422 00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:43,929 Speaker 1: for both of you. Where are the signs of life 423 00:20:43,940 --> 00:20:46,330 Speaker 1: getting better for women in India and what more needs 424 00:20:46,330 --> 00:20:49,250 Speaker 1: to happen? And you first, I think the fact that 425 00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:52,260 Speaker 1: we're able to hear and see more women, I think 426 00:20:52,260 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: that makes a big difference. I can talk about men 427 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,070 Speaker 1: learning from one another. I think it's hugely empowering to 428 00:20:57,070 --> 00:20:57,790 Speaker 1: see women 429 00:20:58,210 --> 00:21:02,190 Speaker 1: public spaces in politics. For example, like Rebecca was saying 430 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,990 Speaker 1: as business leaders doing non traditional roles as well, not 431 00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: just being limited to, let's say nursing or teaching something 432 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: that's been the norm in India like in many other 433 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,030 Speaker 1: countries as well. So it's good to see women. So 434 00:21:14,030 --> 00:21:16,850 Speaker 1: when you land in India, in Delhi or Mumbai, for example, 435 00:21:16,850 --> 00:21:20,890 Speaker 1: you'll see women driving cabs, you'll see women in roadside stalls, 436 00:21:20,890 --> 00:21:23,330 Speaker 1: you'll see them walking to work in their business suits. 437 00:21:23,330 --> 00:21:25,150 Speaker 1: So it's lovely to see them 438 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: out of public life. And I think that's been a 439 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,190 Speaker 1: big change in the last three decades. I think since 440 00:21:30,190 --> 00:21:33,290 Speaker 1: India's economy opened up, women have also got those opportunities 441 00:21:33,290 --> 00:21:36,179 Speaker 1: to be front and center of daily life. But I 442 00:21:36,180 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: think a lot of challenges we've already discussed. I think 443 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,780 Speaker 1: social awareness is something that needs to change. And I 444 00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: think this is something that the very owners needs to 445 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,220 Speaker 1: shift to the men because there are lots of campaigns 446 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:49,300 Speaker 1: that the government is running. For example, educate and savior 447 00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:52,340 Speaker 1: girls telling parents that it's good to have their girls 448 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,790 Speaker 1: in school. It is a large impact because it gives 449 00:21:54,790 --> 00:21:56,710 Speaker 1: the women more agency later in their lives. But there's 450 00:21:56,710 --> 00:22:00,100 Speaker 1: no campaign telling men not to expect their wives to 451 00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:03,770 Speaker 1: be homemakers first to have Children by a certain age. 452 00:22:03,780 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: I think we need that social shift where there's recognition 453 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,230 Speaker 1: of women as citizens and not just as mothers, wives, daughters, 454 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,510 Speaker 1: all of the associated roles that they tend to be 455 00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:19,340 Speaker 1: looked at us first just as equals. Really Rebecca. 456 00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:22,420 Speaker 1: Yes, certainly. It seems that the pay gap thing was 457 00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:24,389 Speaker 1: a big problem and that has to be addressed and 458 00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:27,670 Speaker 1: that really comes from companies as well. Private companies should 459 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,450 Speaker 1: be looking at this more closely and saying that they 460 00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: should really focus on balancing that out. So they're not 461 00:22:33,690 --> 00:22:38,090 Speaker 1: underpaying women because that's clearly unfair and it's discouraging women 462 00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:40,410 Speaker 1: from going into the workplace or causing them to leave 463 00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:42,950 Speaker 1: their jobs. The other thing of course, is a lot 464 00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:44,910 Speaker 1: of women don't have these opportunities 465 00:22:44,970 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: because of factors, including they haven't been given the education. 466 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,100 Speaker 1: But at the same time, the point that was raised 467 00:22:50,109 --> 00:22:53,100 Speaker 1: by the two female engineers that, that I spoke to 468 00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: for these stories, they were talking about the fact that 469 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,490 Speaker 1: women also have to make the choice. So if they 470 00:22:58,490 --> 00:23:01,810 Speaker 1: have been given the education, they do have the skills, 471 00:23:01,810 --> 00:23:04,179 Speaker 1: the talent to do these things, they also have to 472 00:23:04,180 --> 00:23:07,190 Speaker 1: push themselves forward. They have to make their choice, make 473 00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:09,370 Speaker 1: sure that they're having their voices heard. So it has 474 00:23:09,369 --> 00:23:10,140 Speaker 1: to also come 475 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,470 Speaker 1: from women. We have to do. Yes, we do have 476 00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:15,770 Speaker 1: to remember that society, men, the issues here are holding 477 00:23:15,770 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: a lot of people back, but those who can should 478 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,300 Speaker 1: also make sure they push themselves forward according to these women. 479 00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:24,609 Speaker 1: And I thought that was an interesting point. These stories 480 00:23:24,609 --> 00:23:27,290 Speaker 1: that you've covered for this episode of CNN Correspondent, it's 481 00:23:27,290 --> 00:23:29,740 Speaker 1: so easy to tell that they're close to your heart 482 00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: and you're very passionate about them as well. What do 483 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: you want the audience to take away from them? Rebecca. 484 00:23:34,450 --> 00:23:35,230 Speaker 1: You first, 485 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,810 Speaker 1: I think the fact we have to recognize that there 486 00:23:37,810 --> 00:23:40,550 Speaker 1: has been a lot of progress in India. We have 487 00:23:40,550 --> 00:23:43,410 Speaker 1: to look at how things have developed over the years, 488 00:23:43,410 --> 00:23:46,540 Speaker 1: how attitudes are changing. And it's important to see that 489 00:23:46,540 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: side of the story. It's not all negative, there's a 490 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: lot of negative media, a lot of negative press that 491 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,050 Speaker 1: comes out about India and its attitudes. Of course, and 492 00:23:55,050 --> 00:23:57,750 Speaker 1: we have to realize that there's another side to that. 493 00:23:57,750 --> 00:24:00,629 Speaker 1: There is this progress that's happening. There is a shift 494 00:24:00,630 --> 00:24:02,550 Speaker 1: in attitudes, but at the same time, 495 00:24:02,740 --> 00:24:04,730 Speaker 1: we do have to remember that there are challenges and 496 00:24:04,730 --> 00:24:07,409 Speaker 1: there's still really a long way to go and India 497 00:24:07,410 --> 00:24:10,570 Speaker 1: is still clearly lagging in a lot of respect. And 498 00:24:10,580 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: that's something that does need to change. And there's still 499 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,950 Speaker 1: a lot to be done. But there are signs that 500 00:24:15,950 --> 00:24:18,500 Speaker 1: things are changing, that's encouraging and India has to keep 501 00:24:18,510 --> 00:24:20,170 Speaker 1: pushing forward in this direction. 502 00:24:20,430 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: I think for me, the idea was to give the 503 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: viewers a chance to look at India differently because this 504 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,050 Speaker 1: happens to all of us, we develop stereotypes in our heads, 505 00:24:29,050 --> 00:24:32,150 Speaker 1: whether we want to admit to those or not. In India, 506 00:24:32,150 --> 00:24:34,810 Speaker 1: women are often have the tag mother India, the woman 507 00:24:34,810 --> 00:24:38,070 Speaker 1: who does everything, the goddesses with 10 hands, all of 508 00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:41,050 Speaker 1: that is true. Indian women are doing everything they can 509 00:24:41,050 --> 00:24:43,670 Speaker 1: juggling multiple things, doing eight times the amount of hard 510 00:24:43,670 --> 00:24:44,250 Speaker 1: work than men. 511 00:24:44,650 --> 00:24:47,670 Speaker 1: But at the same time, these are stories of ambition, 512 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,430 Speaker 1: these are stories of resilience. These are stories of wanting 513 00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:54,150 Speaker 1: change in their lives and the lives of their daughters, 514 00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: their granddaughters. And I think that in itself is wonderful 515 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,290 Speaker 1: to see it's empowering just by watching. So I think 516 00:25:01,310 --> 00:25:03,830 Speaker 1: for me, it was an idea to push that narrative 517 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,379 Speaker 1: that India might not be the country that you think of. 518 00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: Even in rural India, there is change. 519 00:25:08,170 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: It's not all buffaloes and paddy fields. There are women 520 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,629 Speaker 1: who are wanting to study, wanting agency for themselves and 521 00:25:15,630 --> 00:25:18,250 Speaker 1: in urban India as well, there are challenges, but there's 522 00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:20,820 Speaker 1: one thing that unites all Indian women and that is 523 00:25:20,820 --> 00:25:24,570 Speaker 1: their demand for more wonderful, Nia and Rebecca will leave 524 00:25:24,570 --> 00:25:26,389 Speaker 1: it there. Thank you so much for both of you 525 00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:28,709 Speaker 1: for speaking with me today. Thank Steve. It's lovely to 526 00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: speak to you. Thank you so much. Great to join 527 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:31,690 Speaker 1: you for this show, 528 00:25:35,730 --> 00:25:40,190 Speaker 1: Life For Women in India presents complicated multifaceted challenges. But 529 00:25:40,190 --> 00:25:43,030 Speaker 1: as you've heard, there are signs that women are increasingly 530 00:25:43,030 --> 00:25:46,649 Speaker 1: making progress down the road of self determination though it 531 00:25:46,650 --> 00:25:49,270 Speaker 1: is also clear that for many, there is still a 532 00:25:49,270 --> 00:25:52,629 Speaker 1: long way to go. The TV version of CNN correspondent 533 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,290 Speaker 1: airs on CNN every Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. And this 534 00:25:56,290 --> 00:25:59,180 Speaker 1: week's episode includes more of the stories and issues you've 535 00:25:59,180 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: heard here from the Union and Rebecca Braden, 536 00:26:01,660 --> 00:26:05,190 Speaker 1: it marks International Women's Day and is entitled India through 537 00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:07,630 Speaker 1: the Lives of its women. You can watch it whenever 538 00:26:07,630 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: and wherever you like on CNN dot Asia and on 539 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,330 Speaker 1: our mobile app and do like and subscribe to this 540 00:26:12,330 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: podcast version. So you don't miss our future episodes. Thank 541 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,290 Speaker 1: you for listening to our podcast team is made up 542 00:26:18,290 --> 00:26:21,070 Speaker 1: of Christina Robert Clara Yong.