Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Men Explained. It is getting
Speaker 1: crowded in here, right? Yes, it is. Once again, welcome
Speaker 1: back to another episode where we dive into topics and see,
Speaker 1: we go into the minds of women, of men, and
Speaker 1: then we kind of break it down with our unapologetic,
Speaker 1: honest opinions. Yeah, honestly, I think this is the time
Speaker 1: where like A and I can actually argue and get
Speaker 1: away with it. Correct on the show, and we can
Speaker 1: actually say what we want to say. But please, before
Speaker 1: anything else, can we please welcome our guest today. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Hot.
Speaker 1: The fuck.
Speaker 2: Oh my God, someone's a fan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, right, but please welcome Joey and Nick. How
Speaker 1: are you guys doing today? Very excited to be here
Speaker 1: by the way. When they told me that we want
Speaker 1: you to do an episode where you can explain things.
Speaker 1: That's the reason why he came here. That's great. Happy
Speaker 1: to be here. Happy to be sitting next to Avery
Speaker 1: or OK,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at you.
Speaker 1: 3 times for help at this point in time. OK,
Speaker 1: but I think you know what, today's topic, right, we're
Speaker 1: going to have a lot to talk about. Weaponized incompetence,
Speaker 1: a term that has been thrown around quite a bit lately.
Speaker 1: I want to be very honest. I haven't heard this
Speaker 1: I was going to do this episode. It's all for
Speaker 1: my TikTok. I wonder if it's because like I'm being targeted.
Speaker 1: algorithm to send you a message. Can we start by
Speaker 1: Giving a definition, what is weaponized? What? I don't even
Speaker 1: know what it means. But you might be doing it unconsciously.
Speaker 1: This is not restricted to just men, by the way,
Speaker 1: because when I went through this, I felt like I
Speaker 1: could relate a lot to it. Guilty as charged. Do
Speaker 1: you realize sometimes certain people in your life, they are
Speaker 1: not exactly not good at something, but they make excuses
Speaker 1: for it like, oh, I can't do this because I'm
Speaker 1: not good at it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but actually they're just trying to get away with
Speaker 1: doing something. Could be in an office, could be at home, wherever.
Speaker 1: It became a trend on TikTok, right, because I think
Speaker 1: it first started off with a lot of, uh, in
Speaker 1: general women posting about how like they are the ones
Speaker 1: who are primarily doing the household chores at home and
Speaker 1: then when asked like why their male partners do not contribute.
Speaker 1: Yeah I was like, oh, I'm bad at the laundry.
Speaker 1: I'm so bad at doing the laundry. You do it
Speaker 1: so much better. I can't really that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So I guess it works both ways, right, for women
Speaker 1: as well, it could be like uh repairing the stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how to change a light bulb.
Speaker 1: I do that with Jeremy very often like I don't
Speaker 1: like to do the dishes or the laundry or anything really.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a female version. It's just I'm just a girl.
Speaker 1: I'm.
Speaker 2: I'm a
Speaker 1: passenger
Speaker 1: princess
Speaker 2: so far. I'm just a girl. I'm
Speaker 1: that girl.
Speaker 1: So, so when was the last time you guys actually
Speaker 1: used that excuse? I'm just bad at it. Like, can
Speaker 1: you do it for me? Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 1: So I'll give you an example and then maybe Joey,
Speaker 1: you can. I don't know which one you relate to more,
Speaker 1: but this is the number one excuse that I always
Speaker 1: make when I don't want to do the dishes, which
Speaker 1: is all the time, OK? I'll say like I don't
Speaker 1: want my hands to like itch, you know, um, and
Speaker 1: my manicure and my hands are very, you know, sensitive
Speaker 1: to the dishwashing soap. It is, it is, yes.
Speaker 2: It could be true with prolonged,
Speaker 1: um, you know, just not just any dishwashing soap really.
Speaker 1: get like upgrade your dishwasher's pink rubber gloves, but then
Speaker 1: the gloves, right, you still have that residual, I don't
Speaker 2: know, like, the best is when was the last time
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 1: you said, you know, I'm just bad at
Speaker 2: it. I wouldn't say I'm just bad at it. I
Speaker 2: would just say like, oh, we need to do this,
Speaker 2: which is if you look into the words you need
Speaker 2: to do this. Yeah, like, oh we need to do this. Oh,
Speaker 2: we need to go and get that. Oh, I need
Speaker 2: to go to the fridge, but he's closer to the fridge.
Speaker 2: Yes, OK, I'll go get it. I'm like, oh thanks.
Speaker 1: But would you say that that's really weaponized incompetence then
Speaker 1: because it's not that you can't do it. It's not
Speaker 1: that you're bad at it. You just don't want that's
Speaker 1: just manipulation. Are we? No, I feel like it becomes
Speaker 1: weaponized incompetence, right, when you use you doing it badly
Speaker 1: or not being able to do it as an excuse
Speaker 1: to get the other person to do it. If you
Speaker 1: are say like I don't like to do it or
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it, can you do it
Speaker 1: for me please, because like I would like if you
Speaker 1: could do this for me. I think that's not.
Speaker 1: OK, OK. So what about your dynamic then? I don't
Speaker 1: think so I don't want to do something, I'll just
Speaker 1: say I don't want to do something, and I feel
Speaker 1: like in terms of household chores, we are split evenly
Speaker 1: so like cleaning and laundry we will split, but cooking
Speaker 1: is always myself. Then after that, like dishes will always
Speaker 1: be my wife Jess, yeah. What about like tech related stuff,
Speaker 1: it's definitely you. Does she make any reasons or excuses
Speaker 1: or no?
Speaker 1: Just, just doesn't keep up to date with like yeah
Speaker 1: or even like home improvement, right, like say if we
Speaker 1: were to implement a smart home tomorrow, it will be me,
Speaker 1: but the thing is she doesn't expect me to do it,
Speaker 1: so it's not a case of like I want a
Speaker 1: smart home, can you do it? She's just like I
Speaker 1: don't need a smart home. But do you think that's
Speaker 1: a gender norm being like, all the men should do
Speaker 1: the repairing, the men should do the setting up of
Speaker 1: the smart homes, while in that case a bit different lah, huh?
Speaker 1: But do you think that's a
Speaker 1: I feel like if we look at the median and average, right,
Speaker 1: then there definitely are gender stereotypes in terms of like
Speaker 1: what society expects women to do, what society expects men
Speaker 1: to be better at, but I don't think that that's
Speaker 1: accurate or representative for every relationship la. Yeah, I'm going
Speaker 1: to just put it out there like my own partner Jeremy,
Speaker 1: he's not very good at tech stuff, honestly, like the
Speaker 1: man works in fintech. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he's
Speaker 2: more thin tech.
Speaker 1: Fintech doesn't equate to fixing cables, my friend. This is
Speaker 1: why A is in media, OK, I can see that. No,
Speaker 1: but I think it's interesting because like coming from a
Speaker 1: single person, right, obviously you've got all this weaponized incompetence
Speaker 1: that you guys are talking about comes from relationships. Do
Speaker 1: you guys see it in the workplace, right? Because for me,
Speaker 1: I will say that as a single person, I can't say,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you know, I see this in a relationship
Speaker 1: because what are we talking about? But we do see.
Speaker 1: I know, no, no externally, but um I see a
Speaker 1: lot in the workplace. So for me, my weaponizing confidence
Speaker 1: comes from knowing that my radio partner Jermaine is very
Speaker 1: much logistically more capable than I am. Logistically meaning that
Speaker 1: she handles all the Excel sheets when it comes to
Speaker 1: like doing our scripting, our Pro Tools. She is hands
Speaker 1: on with everything and initially when we first started, she
Speaker 1: was like, you know, can you do it? And I
Speaker 1: was like,
Speaker 1: I can, but you do it better. You do it
Speaker 1: better than me. And you know, we've been in this
Speaker 1: partnership for 3 years now that she doesn't even bother
Speaker 1: asking anymore. She's just like, OK, I will do it
Speaker 1: because I know that you're terrible at it. So you
Speaker 1: contribute with power and moral support. I contribute with my
Speaker 1: brain and my presence and the vibes you or not.
Speaker 1: I do try. I'm not great at it, right, and
Speaker 1: she really is good at it, and I think it's
Speaker 1: also kind of like a give and take.
Speaker 1: Because now she knows when you do it, it's it's OK.
Speaker 1: When I do it, it's great. So let me do it.
Speaker 1: I feel like if it's a case of you put
Speaker 1: in like 100% right and it's at a level that
Speaker 1: you can live with and you're happy with, but the
Speaker 1: other person is not happy with it, then it's not really,
Speaker 1: but I will admit sometimes then now when I do
Speaker 1: like maybe I do 60% and she wants to do better,
Speaker 1: then she do all.
Speaker 1: That
Speaker 1: is
Speaker 1: incompetence.
Speaker 2: I think I need to say that I think there's
Speaker 2: a very fine line between playing to each other's strengths
Speaker 2: and weaknesses and weaponizing incompetence. Like if you have been
Speaker 2: tasked to do something and it's agreed upon that you
Speaker 2: will handle this and you come home and the dishes
Speaker 2: are not done, everything is messy and they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: because like I tried and it was just too messy,
Speaker 2: I can't do it. I figured you'd do it better,
Speaker 2: but it was really.
Speaker 2: Upon that you would handle this. If you don't even try,
Speaker 2: then I think that's weaponized incompetence. But if it's agreed
Speaker 2: upon that OK, it's OK, I'm better at this and
Speaker 2: you're better at this, then we split. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's weaponized incompetence because it's agreed upon that you guys
Speaker 2: play to your strengths and weaknesses in a within a couple,
Speaker 1: right, one person assign something to another person, then you
Speaker 1: must be prepared for.
Speaker 1: The result la, 100%.
Speaker 2: Like why would you force a task that you know
Speaker 2: will not be performed well on someone just to make
Speaker 2: them feel like, see, you're not living up to the standard,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't make sense to force this task on
Speaker 2: someone that like you know they can't do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, so for me like, OK, I don't feel
Speaker 1: forced to do it. I know that I should.
Speaker 1: Also pull my own weight when it comes to these things.
Speaker 1: We have our own places, right? So I also learned
Speaker 1: how to handle some of my stuff, you know, be
Speaker 1: it household chores, finances, or whatever it may be, right?
Speaker 1: But then when we come together and you know, he
Speaker 1: already knows that I hate doing, say, laundry or dishes
Speaker 1: or whatever, but when I do it at his house,
Speaker 1: he's like extra, extra appreciative of it, you know, so
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I really appreciate it. So maybe the
Speaker 1: trick is you got to hold back a little bit
Speaker 1: like don't.
Speaker 1: So when you do it, it's like, but the question is,
Speaker 1: do you think that that's really incompetence or just that
Speaker 1: you just don't want to do it because like if
Speaker 1: you're incompetent, it means that you can't do it well.
Speaker 1: It's like throwing it in and pressing a button. How
Speaker 1: bad can it's not like I quite particular about laundry
Speaker 1: or so, um, must fall a certain way. So then
Speaker 1: when Jess doesn't fall a certain way, right, then I'm
Speaker 1: like I will refold, but I will make it a
Speaker 1: point to not be like, uh, you fall wrong, can
Speaker 1: you don't fold it like that.
Speaker 1: Because if you are doing it, then I must be
Speaker 1: prepared that like this is the result lah.
Speaker 2: But he really likes like laundry, cooking, cleaning, he loves
Speaker 1: I'm starting to realize that a lot of this when
Speaker 1: it comes to relationships, a lot of it is dependent
Speaker 1: on how your partner both of you like to do something,
Speaker 1: don't like to do something, right? But that's more of
Speaker 1: like a compromise. When you guys first started this relationship,
Speaker 1: was it like you paid attention to what this person
Speaker 1: is not good at? Because I to me.
Speaker 1: That's more incompetent than it is like a compromise. I
Speaker 1: think it depends on your tolerance level so far the
Speaker 1: examples that we've given right have always been like one
Speaker 1: is good, one is not good, but I think it
Speaker 1: really becomes a true test when both are not good
Speaker 1: or both of you don't like to do a certain thing.
Speaker 1: And I also feel like a lot of the things
Speaker 1: that we're talking about right is very like physical like laundry, vacuuming,
Speaker 1: ironing chores another angle like emotional,
Speaker 2: emotional talking about feelings
Speaker 1: like
Speaker 1: OK, we found we found.
Speaker 1: You're not a
Speaker 1: perfect man.
Speaker 2: Nobody said
Speaker 1: that.
Speaker 1: You're mostly what Avery is aspiring to be right now. OK,
Speaker 1: I am emotionally so I've been told by my female
Speaker 1: co-host on the podcast and Jess has confirmed this. I
Speaker 1: think like when we argue a lot of times it's
Speaker 1: because of this. I've learned recently that I have cognitive
Speaker 1: empathy and not emotional empathy. Please fill us in on
Speaker 1: the case.
Speaker 1: I understand why you are feeling this way. Emotional empathy is, oh,
Speaker 1: I can feel it as well. So you understand why
Speaker 1: you don't feel. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He can like intellectualize it, but he can't emotionally
Speaker 1: process
Speaker 1: it in that way. So that's just look at it
Speaker 1: and she's like, OK, I understand that you don't.
Speaker 1: Process this the way that like, you know, I would
Speaker 1: prefer it. So that to me is like I'm going
Speaker 1: to step up and then be able to properly do
Speaker 1: this in a relationship. Yeah, so I think there was
Speaker 1: that that calibration that was needed. I also had the
Speaker 1: realization that if I kept on going like I'm just
Speaker 1: not like that, then I feel like that is a
Speaker 1: form of weaponizing computers so like you are kind of
Speaker 1: making an excuse to not try by saying that, you know,
Speaker 1: I just cannot. I completely understand this as well, right,
Speaker 1: because as you are.
Speaker 1: Trying to emotionally deal with something, right, and then you're like, oh.
Speaker 1: Because it's so emotional, I don't know how to deal
Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, I'm just gonna like, you know what,
Speaker 1: if you don't understand it, too bad. No, but you
Speaker 1: are the emotional one or you are not emotional one.
Speaker 1: So like to my partner, I'm not emotional. So I'm
Speaker 1: very emotional. So it's a spectrum I also think that
Speaker 1: sometimes it depends on the person that you're with. It
Speaker 1: brings out a different side of people. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes the person that is maybe not suitable for you, right,
Speaker 1: brings out just this like horrible side of you that
Speaker 1: you didn't even realize existed and then you don't even
Speaker 1: recognize yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think once it's brought to your consciousness from your
Speaker 2: subconscious or like maybe you weren't aware, once someone tells you, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm not OK with this, and you constantly continue the
Speaker 2: same behavior, then to me, I feel like you're going
Speaker 2: out of your way to hurt that person or like
Speaker 2: you're consciously hurting that person because you already know what
Speaker 2: your partner needs this to feel validated or secure and
Speaker 2: you're like, but I'm not good at it. So it's
Speaker 2: still a conscious choice to. I know if I don't change,
Speaker 2: I'm hurting her, but it suits me better. So you
Speaker 2: know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think a good example is when Jeremy
Speaker 1: and I had our own issues and we tried to
Speaker 1: iron certain things out, right? One of it was the
Speaker 1: communication when it came to like solving problems or when
Speaker 1: I'm when I come to the table with like this
Speaker 1: issue or that issue, and I actually just want him
Speaker 1: to empathize and listen, but he is, he was very
Speaker 1: similar to what you, yeah, problem solver, so he'd be like, ah,
Speaker 1: it's just so easy, just do this. Why don't you
Speaker 1: just do that? That would make me even more emotional, right?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you just don't understand me.
Speaker 1: And after I communicated to him that he sometimes all
Speaker 1: I need is someone to listen and not come back
Speaker 1: with a solution. I just want you to be like,
Speaker 1: I'm on your side, babe, like I'm on your side.
Speaker 1: That's it. I'm on your side. So he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: like that, OK, OK. So to be fair, he's kind
Speaker 1: of changed it a little bit.
Speaker 2: Same same with Charlie, he would oftentimes like keep quiet
Speaker 2: and in his head he's like, yeah, I agree this
Speaker 2: person sucks so like I can't believe they hurt you,
Speaker 2: but then outside it's like this like hm.
Speaker 2: You know, like I already knew this would happen. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I understand that. I understand that logically you can process it,
Speaker 2: but like me, what I need right now is to
Speaker 2: feel like you're on my side. So I will literally
Speaker 2: give in phrases like I'm sorry. When you say I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: it's not like I'm sorry I caused you hurt. It's
Speaker 2: like I'm sorry you're feeling this way about empathizing or
Speaker 2: sympathizing the person is. Correct, the teacher, like, say I'm
Speaker 2: sorry this is happening. You can say you can rub
Speaker 2: my back. If you know what to say, you can
Speaker 2: rub my back. You can maybe hold my arm. Like
Speaker 2: these are ways that I will feel assured. Correct. I think.
Speaker 2: I cannot expect him to know what to do without
Speaker 2: communicating that also. So I think a lot of the
Speaker 2: partnership and growing together right is about communicating and also
Speaker 2: sometimes I cannot take his silence as like ignoring me
Speaker 2: because that's how he processes it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes my partner is like, I have nothing to say.
Speaker 1: I understand, but I've got nothing to say at this
Speaker 1: point and that's why he stays quiet. So it's a
Speaker 1: case of I feel like if you give them 10
Speaker 1: keywords right to use and then they use 6 but
Speaker 1: then the other 40% of the time they're silent or
Speaker 1: like problem solving mode.
Speaker 1: Then they are trying, if they don't like don't try
Speaker 1: to communicate in the way that you want, then that
Speaker 1: is a bit of a weaponized he's already committed to
Speaker 1: me in life, so he has no choice but to
Speaker 1: deal with this, you know. Obviously this is because you
Speaker 1: feel that your partners are not able to express a
Speaker 1: certain emotion towards you and you guys have to teach
Speaker 1: them in that sense, right? So do you think in
Speaker 1: a sense, women are kind of to blame.
Speaker 1: Open inverted commas like that, yeah, disclaimer to blame for
Speaker 1: like coddling men in this sense, you know, when it
Speaker 1: comes to maybe emotionally, or you don't understand me as
Speaker 1: a woman, let me do this for you because if not,
Speaker 1: it's going to feel as though you're weaponizing your incompetence
Speaker 1: and making me feel like I cannot express it this way.
Speaker 1: It is a two way street I feel, right? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think coddling comes when um let's say you are
Speaker 2: in a public setting and then he doesn't say anything.
Speaker 2: And then you try to defend him without letting him
Speaker 2: handle it himself. For example, like maybe it's his family
Speaker 2: and maybe there's bad news, right? And then he didn't
Speaker 2: say the right thing, he just said there and then
Speaker 2: they accused him of, why don't you have anything to
Speaker 2: say about this family better, right? And then you speak
Speaker 2: out like, no, no, no, he actually just doesn't, you know,
Speaker 2: like this is how he processes it. Instead of letting
Speaker 2: him deal with it and then you go and speak
Speaker 2: up and protect him. I think that's coddling. But if
Speaker 2: behind the scenes you're like, hey, you know, just now
Speaker 2: at the family thing, I think you should have like spoken.
Speaker 2: But I understand is how you process, but from the
Speaker 2: outside it looks like you don't care. And then you
Speaker 2: give him the tools to also have independence because we
Speaker 2: don't want to ship them to the people that we
Speaker 2: want them to be like all the way, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean.
Speaker 1: So Nick, do you think your wife cuddles you and
Speaker 1: maybe not say emotionally, but even in like household chores
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I think a bit, because like
Speaker 1: there are times where my workday is quite hectic like
Speaker 1: and a lot of times I I cook my lunches,
Speaker 1: so you know when I'm alone at home.
Speaker 1: Then I will cook because like my wife will go
Speaker 1: to the office and all that and I work from home.
Speaker 1: So sometimes I cook, I eat, and then I have
Speaker 1: to go straight back to work so I don't clean up,
Speaker 1: but I do that too. But then in my mind
Speaker 1: it's like, OK, I will clean up later but I
Speaker 1: think her threshold for like leaving it there is much
Speaker 1: lower than mine. So then a lot of times she
Speaker 1: cleans up, obviously not all the time lah, and then
Speaker 1: there are times also where it's like when she returns
Speaker 1: home from office, I make it a point that OK,
Speaker 1: must have hot dinner for for her already. So that's
Speaker 1: one thing. So then
Speaker 1: To me it's a bit of a compromise. But do
Speaker 1: you think it's ever been a point where you cook
Speaker 1: and then you're like, I know Jess is going to clean.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna leave her. No, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think
Speaker 2: that's when it is.
Speaker 1: That's why I think you're trying to, you know, so
Speaker 1: you don't do that. So you do it subconsciously because
Speaker 1: you're like, I will clean and then she just does
Speaker 1: it for you. OK, OK, but I know that you
Speaker 1: are not actively in a relationship right now, but previously,
Speaker 1: in your previous relationships, have you ever had any experiences
Speaker 1: with experiencing any of this when it comes to weaponizing competence,
Speaker 1: it is the most like.
Speaker 1: Basic thing, but I will tell you sons has to
Speaker 1: do it for me as well.
Speaker 2: It's hot pot for you. So is it the prawn
Speaker 2: you don't know how to peel? OK,
Speaker 1: so here's the thing, it's not that I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't want, right? And when we go to hot pot,
Speaker 1: I refuse. So if we go, I have to sit
Speaker 1: next to her, right? She say he will say I
Speaker 1: suck at this.
Speaker 1: Spoiling the food.
Speaker 1: I mean just cooking
Speaker 1: the food. No, you know why? Because I suggested hotpot
Speaker 1: and forgot that he is, and then I did it again.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I just because I want to
Speaker 1: eat hot pot, yeah, because she loves hot pot and
Speaker 1: the thing is that it happened in my past relationships
Speaker 1: as well, right? So I will always say, oh, you
Speaker 1: like hot pot can, but
Speaker 1: I'm not good at cooking the food because I scared
Speaker 1: I will get sick, but it's bullshit. I just hate
Speaker 1: cooking shit. Oh my God, so you don't cook at
Speaker 1: all and I don't like going on hot pot, so
Speaker 1: pot in general, Korean barbecue. I also don't like. I
Speaker 1: think anything that requires to me that's my very low
Speaker 1: level of of like weaponizing incompetence, right, because I just
Speaker 1: don't like to cook hot pot. Maybe that was a
Speaker 1: deal breaker.
Speaker 2: That's why you're saying.
Speaker 1: Every Chinese New Year is a struggle. Oh no, my
Speaker 1: family knows. My family, my sister, my Alex will cook
Speaker 1: for me, so I will have to sit next to
Speaker 1: my sister and she'll cook for me. It would be
Speaker 1: very funny if one day they just decided not to
Speaker 1: do it for you and you have, and I just
Speaker 1: ate white rice. Oh my God. So you,
Speaker 2: OK, you know,
Speaker 1: you
Speaker 1: don't like. No,
Speaker 2: no, I think if he's like, huh, I got no food.
Speaker 2: No cook for me, then I'll be.
Speaker 2: No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I will not say that.
Speaker 2: But if you are contented eating your boring white rice,
Speaker 2: actually I love white rice
Speaker 1: or not eating hot pot at all. OK, that's my
Speaker 1: version of like my weaponizing competence, but do you guys
Speaker 1: think women are more likely to do this or men
Speaker 1: are more likely to do this dangerous. Nick, what do
Speaker 1: you think it's quite equal, but the branding for women
Speaker 1: doing it is a lot better than the branding.
Speaker 1: For men doing it. Because I find that so this
Speaker 1: is going off like social media trends, right when it's
Speaker 1: like um a girl doing it, then a lot of
Speaker 1: times it can be disguised under the I'm just a girl,
Speaker 1: I'm just a baby, I'm passenger's princess, but then I
Speaker 1: think um when when guys do it, then it gets
Speaker 1: it gets called out very quickly.
Speaker 2: I think it's also because with relationships with men and women,
Speaker 2: it sometimes crosses the boundary of men liking.
Speaker 2: Women that resemble their moms. Yeah. So because of that
Speaker 2: dynamic that exists, they expect a maternal caregiver kind of
Speaker 2: thing and that's why they are OK to not because
Speaker 2: women also we have that maternal instinct to want to
Speaker 2: take care and provide in that sense. And because we
Speaker 2: already have that innate ability, when we see a man
Speaker 2: that we love, like not being able to do something
Speaker 2: or he's not, and we want the best for him.
Speaker 2: It's not that they ask. It's like I'm very hungry,
Speaker 2: but I'm very lazy to go across the street, so
Speaker 2: I'll just like eat beans, for example, and I'll be like, Ha, no,
Speaker 2: we need to get you your protein or whatever. So
Speaker 2: then I'll go out my way and I'll be annoyed
Speaker 2: that I have to go and buy food. And then
Speaker 2: I realized he didn't ask for it. I'm just assuming
Speaker 2: that like he has chosen this super inconvenient like path
Speaker 2: for himself and no, no, no, we need to get
Speaker 2: the best one. Actually, am I mothering him?
Speaker 2: I noticed that that can be very dangerous as well
Speaker 2: because you don't want to mother your partner.
Speaker 1: But I think especially when you and then you feel resentment,
Speaker 1: then it's for nothing. At least you recognize it. It's
Speaker 2: like one side
Speaker 1: just to add on to this. So I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if this is related to me being like an only child,
Speaker 1: for example, right? Wait anyone else here you also. So
Speaker 1: the fact is when I was growing up, we didn't
Speaker 1: have a helper, but because I'm the only child.
Speaker 1: People would think that I'm quite spoiled or like only
Speaker 1: children are spoiled. That's the generic view on only children, right?
Speaker 1: And the problem is if I don't do something like
Speaker 1: a chore or I don't wash the dishes or clean
Speaker 1: up my room, my mom will end up doing it
Speaker 1: without even saying anything because she's just like, ah, just
Speaker 1: do it, you know, kind of thing. So I don't
Speaker 1: know whether subconsciously I feel that way about my partner too.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, if I don't clean up this cup,
Speaker 1: someone else will do it
Speaker 2: it will get done.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think it's kind of like ingra? I
Speaker 1: think so, but I think so I think um in
Speaker 1: this instance it's not gender specific, but I feel like
Speaker 1: in a lot of households, right, especially in Singapore or
Speaker 1: like Asian households, there's one expectation for a son and
Speaker 1: then there are different expectations for daughters. So I have
Speaker 1: friends who are like, the son don't need to do this,
Speaker 1: but then the daughter must do and it's like it's
Speaker 1: not unique it's quite, quite common. I feel like it
Speaker 1: could stem from this.
Speaker 1: Generational, I think it's also so that together with like
Speaker 1: being a mama's boy, then those sons grow up to
Speaker 1: become like that, they will expect their wives to do it.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of TikToks of moms now saying
Speaker 2: like if you have a son, you better make sure
Speaker 2: you teach him too. You are doing this for his
Speaker 2: future girlfriend or wife because I'm having to go through
Speaker 2: it with my husband and I don't want to repeat
Speaker 2: this pattern. So there are a lot of women who
Speaker 2: are stepping up and saying this.
Speaker 1: That's why so many women have beef with their mother-in-laws.
Speaker 1: The mindset is changing though, I feel
Speaker 2: 100%.
Speaker 1: The question that I have is because you guys are
Speaker 1: all in relationships, right, and obviously these are things that
Speaker 1: like leaving the cups around, you know, like not, not
Speaker 1: washing up and then having just to wash up. I
Speaker 1: leave the cups around so much that Jeremy calls it
Speaker 1: a cup for us. There we go, yeah, right, like
Speaker 1: your partners.
Speaker 1: for it, right? And how do you all deal with that?
Speaker 1: Like they're like, you know, I've told you this multiple times.
Speaker 1: Like how do they do it? How do you all
Speaker 1: deal with that? Suddenly I feel like I'm being interviewed
Speaker 1: as well. therapist. So initially he reacted in an irritated
Speaker 1: sort of way like.
Speaker 1: Why, why so many cups? Like, ah, you know, that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So I told, I'm really sorry, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll try to be better at this, not
Speaker 1: cup for us, you know, just a cup bush or
Speaker 1: something small, something smaller, and he'd be like, OK, so
Speaker 1: I realized that when he comes at me with this
Speaker 1: more like frustrated aggressive tone, I will react or I'll
Speaker 1: be like defensive about it. But then he tries to
Speaker 1: change his tone, he'd be like, babe, you know, like
Speaker 1: I know that you need to drink a lot of water,
Speaker 1: but can you please just limit it to one cup?
Speaker 1: You mean it's all water.
Speaker 1: It's not different beverages. No, I don't drink any other
Speaker 1: beverages except for coffee and water. And then you use
Speaker 1: one cup per cup of water per time that I
Speaker 1: need
Speaker 1: to drink.
Speaker 2: No, but the last day we cannot finish it needs
Speaker 2: to be a new cup.
Speaker 1: No. I cannot mix the water from 6 a.m. with
Speaker 1: the water at 2 p.m. Why the taste different? No,
Speaker 1: the dust will
Speaker 1: go inside
Speaker 2: the minerals.
Speaker 2: the oxygen
Speaker 1: after
Speaker 1: you guys talk about it, how do they respond? Are
Speaker 1: they like, they just say, OK, I understand it. It's
Speaker 1: no longer this weaponized incompetence that you're leaving it around.
Speaker 1: It's just you being you. Do they ever acknowledge that?
Speaker 2: I think after living together for so long, Charlie and
Speaker 2: I have kind of figured out where we lack like individually.
Speaker 2: And because I recognize that there are so many things
Speaker 2: that he does like that are like picking up after
Speaker 2: me and cleaning up after me that when I clean
Speaker 2: up after him, I don't see it as like a chore.
Speaker 2: It's just like I hope you, you help me, but
Speaker 2: it's only when the balance is like tipped and one
Speaker 2: person is.
Speaker 2: Doing everything. I think that's when a conversation needs to happen.
Speaker 2: But definitely at the start I got beard hair everywhere
Speaker 2: in the sink la then like after you trim your
Speaker 2: beard hair then. But then I realized after I trimmed
Speaker 2: my bangs, right, then the hair I just like let
Speaker 2: in the sink, right, then the sink choke.
Speaker 2: So it's like we're both, yeah, we're both learning, and
Speaker 2: we're both very different people like our lifestyles are very different.
Speaker 2: So I think because of that we really had to
Speaker 2: learn and find like middle ground and compromise.
Speaker 1: I think at the workplace, if I try to think
Speaker 1: about the dynamic that I have with my own partner
Speaker 1: Joakim as well, right, like both of us obviously have
Speaker 1: our strengths and weaknesses and what we're good at, what
Speaker 1: we're not.
Speaker 1: So we do pick up and we don't say anything
Speaker 1: because we're not in a relationship and to be honest,
Speaker 1: we just want the best result for our show, for example.
Speaker 1: So we don't question, we just do
Speaker 1: it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's a matter of recognizing that there are
Speaker 2: strengths and weaknesses for both of you and as long
Speaker 2: as you don't constantly hold them accountable to their weaknesses
Speaker 2: and like when they say something about you then you get.
Speaker 2: then that's not fair, right? So I think it's about, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think the unspoken thing is very respectful because you
Speaker 2: recognize that you both have different strengths that you play
Speaker 2: into and you rely on each other for and creating
Speaker 2: that like resentment or friction is only going to do
Speaker 2: harm to your relationship.
Speaker 1: The other example like because we talk about workplace and
Speaker 1: like in your romantic relationships, right, actually within your family
Speaker 1: or so. So like for example, if you
Speaker 1: have an older parent and then they are always like,
Speaker 1: help me do the Microsoft Word or help me do
Speaker 1: help me do the pay now or like I think
Speaker 1: I'm gonna scam, and then you know there's that constant
Speaker 1: resistance to learning like or embracing technology and then being 100%
Speaker 1: dependent on you. To me that is a form of
Speaker 1: weaponized incompetence, yeah, because I think, OK, if it's a
Speaker 1: complex task, right.
Speaker 1: Like, ask you Photoshop one poster that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: then it's a bit much, but then if you can
Speaker 1: WhatsApp your friends, if you can do these things, right,
Speaker 1: you can go on Facebook, you can you can scroll
Speaker 1: to right, then you surely can learn how to learn
Speaker 1: how to pay now someone, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Speaking of right on the Chinese version of Reddit, I
Speaker 2: don't know if you guys have heard of this story,
Speaker 2: but there was this one guy who created this thread
Speaker 2: and he said, how do I stop getting my wife
Speaker 2: to ask me to do household chores? because she she
Speaker 2: just gave birth and now that she's home, he needs
Speaker 2: to do a lot of things and he's like, how
Speaker 2: do I get this to stop? And then so the
Speaker 2: second top comment right was every time you do something,
Speaker 2: just break.
Speaker 2: The dishes. So let's say you do the dishes, you break. No, seriously.
Speaker 2: And every time she asks you, you just do it,
Speaker 2: but like make it bad so that she will stop
Speaker 2: asking you. OK. So that was that was the top
Speaker 2: second thought, right? The first comment was a guy who said, No,
Speaker 2: actually I want up you. You always offer to do it,
Speaker 2: but when you offer to do it, you do the same.
Speaker 2: Same thing you make it bad, but at least she
Speaker 2: she gets to say like, oh actually he really wants
Speaker 2: to but he's just not good at it. So then
Speaker 2: I will do it. So much manipulation emotional plus like,
Speaker 2: oh my God, when I read that, I was like
Speaker 2: this is so scary
Speaker 1: because it's calculated. Yeah it is. OK, we've talked a
Speaker 1: lot about emotional, a lot about work space and everything, right?
Speaker 1: But we also need to know how do you draw
Speaker 1: the line and how do you differentiate actual incompetence and
Speaker 1: weaponized incompetence? Like what if somebody really just does not
Speaker 1: know how to do something versus, you know, I really
Speaker 1: don't know how to do it, but I'm trying to
Speaker 1: make you do it for me. I think everybody's different.
Speaker 1: So I have friends, right, like guy friends who they
Speaker 1: really go out of their way to the point where
Speaker 1: I call them sIs for their wives, which is fine.
Speaker 1: To be a sim for your wife is fine.
Speaker 1: But then like I'll be like, bro, come on, like
Speaker 1: she can do, but they just want to do it
Speaker 1: for their partner, which I think is fine as long
Speaker 1: as you are happy and like are able to tolerate
Speaker 1: and it's a compromise you're willing to make, it's an
Speaker 1: extra effort that you are happily willing to give, then
Speaker 1: I think that is your line, but that line might
Speaker 1: be different for everybody. I feel that a person is
Speaker 1: able to tell whether it's real or not, like an
Speaker 1: excuse or actually not knowing how to do something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's the worst when it's verbalized like
Speaker 2: yeah I know.
Speaker 2: I do, you're going to redo anyway, so then I
Speaker 2: just do like half, you know what I mean? So
Speaker 2: you already, why not instead of wasting both our times
Speaker 2: because you're going to do it already, just do it
Speaker 2: like one time go online just do once and then
Speaker 2: you don't have to make me check also, you know
Speaker 2: what I
Speaker 2: mean?
Speaker 1: Guys, thank you so much for breaking this down with
Speaker 1: us and giving us an insight into your relationships as well.
Speaker 1: I think we can all relate somehow
Speaker 2: except to cooking your own food,
Speaker 1: the hot pot.
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully you guys enjoyed this episode and once again,
Speaker 1: thank you Joey and Nick for joining us on another
Speaker 1: episode of Men Explain. Make sure to follow us on
Speaker 1: all our socials on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, subscribe at its clarity.co. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed it, please log on Apple Podcast, Spotify,
Speaker 1: me listen, we're all around you as well. So be
Speaker 1: sure to see you there. Thanks guys.