WEBVTT - Migrant workers bear the brunt of heat stress 0:00:03.029 --> 0:00:05.329 You're listening to AC N A podcast 0:00:08.109 --> 0:00:12.329 that means la la. It's hot bonjour. Everyone le here 0:00:12.340 --> 0:00:15.199 back from vacation in France where the Paris Olympics has 0:00:15.210 --> 0:00:18.610 been in full swing along with the erratic weather that 0:00:18.620 --> 0:00:21.989 went from stormy, start to intense heat. And then over 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:25.729 the weeks peppered by heat warnings and storm alerts. I'm 0:00:25.739 --> 0:00:29.989 solo hosting today without co-host Jack Board who is taking 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.918 his turn to go on holiday, hopefully somewhere with less 0:00:33.930 --> 0:00:35.139 punishing weather 0:00:37.229 --> 0:00:41.168 and that's what's on the agenda. This episode grueling, punishing 0:00:41.180 --> 0:00:41.810 weather 0:00:42.119 --> 0:00:45.000 in Paris athletes have been braving the heat that's gone 0:00:45.009 --> 0:00:48.500 up to as high as 37 °C and fans have 0:00:48.509 --> 0:00:52.119 had to bake under full on sun exposure for open 0:00:52.130 --> 0:00:56.470 air events. Our correspondent in France, Ross Collins spoke to 0:00:56.479 --> 0:00:59.020 a few of them. We were sat in the sun 0:00:59.029 --> 0:01:02.409 for like three hours watching the basketball, but yeah, an 0:01:02.450 --> 0:01:06.269 ice cream afterwards. So it's been really hot here. Very sweaty. 0:01:06.279 --> 0:01:07.599 What's the weather like here? 0:01:09.459 --> 0:01:12.669 It's not just France and the Olympic athletes and fans 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.869 wrestling with this weather though, here in our part of 0:01:15.879 --> 0:01:19.440 the world, things are also heating up and we're putting 0:01:19.449 --> 0:01:22.679 the spotlight on a very different group of people dealing 0:01:22.690 --> 0:01:23.639 with the brunt of it. 0:01:24.019 --> 0:01:27.849 They are our workers laboring in the elements. Migrant workers 0:01:27.860 --> 0:01:33.080 at construction sites, landscapers and gardeners tending to urban greenery, 0:01:33.089 --> 0:01:37.330 painters and cleaners and people whose livelihoods require that they 0:01:37.339 --> 0:01:42.040 work outdoors and with temperatures breaking records in Singapore, what 0:01:42.050 --> 0:01:45.559 risks do these folks face and what options are there 0:01:45.569 --> 0:01:47.510 to cool down and keep safe 0:01:47.879 --> 0:01:51.699 here with me to answer these questions is Associate Professor 0:01:51.709 --> 0:01:54.410 Jason Lee who is also the Director of the Heat 0:01:54.419 --> 0:01:58.290 Resilience and Performance Center at the Yong Luin School of 0:01:58.300 --> 0:02:01.750 Medicine at N US. Thank you, Doctor Lee for joining 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.800 us here today. Now doctor Li, if I understand correctly, 0:02:04.809 --> 0:02:08.080 your field is physiology and you study the impact of 0:02:08.089 --> 0:02:10.859 heat stress on the human body to find ways to 0:02:10.869 --> 0:02:11.979 limit the impact 0:02:12.229 --> 0:02:16.110 and improve performance and productivity. Now, we recently saw that 0:02:16.119 --> 0:02:19.889 on 21st July, the planet recorded its hottest day ever. 0:02:19.899 --> 0:02:23.649 It's certainly feeling a lot hotter here in Singapore. What 0:02:23.660 --> 0:02:27.008 does all this mean for Singapore and the region and 0:02:27.020 --> 0:02:29.770 the people here? It means we get more and more 0:02:29.779 --> 0:02:33.619 uncomfortable and it really depends who you are for most 0:02:33.630 --> 0:02:33.839 of us 0:02:33.895 --> 0:02:36.794 because we can avoid the heat. And we thought ok, 0:02:36.804 --> 0:02:40.065 since we have air con cooling facilities and therefore we 0:02:40.074 --> 0:02:43.144 are not paying the price of a warming world. No, 0:02:43.315 --> 0:02:46.755 in fact, we are paying the price indirectly, lack of 0:02:46.764 --> 0:02:51.304 incidental physical activity, lack of outdoor exposure, which means our 0:02:51.315 --> 0:02:55.205 physical health, mental health, even eye health will be compromised. 0:02:55.755 --> 0:02:59.133 But there are other sectors like the workers who don't 0:02:59.145 --> 0:03:01.865 have a choice to avoid the heat and they still 0:03:01.875 --> 0:03:03.285 have the toy out there. 0:03:03.570 --> 0:03:06.830 And the usual concern in that sector is there could 0:03:06.839 --> 0:03:12.919 be increased heat injuries, severe work productivity losses. And then 0:03:12.929 --> 0:03:15.339 when you are uncomfortable, right? If I put you in 0:03:15.350 --> 0:03:20.539 the context where you are too hot, too cold, too noisy, 0:03:20.630 --> 0:03:25.258 too smelly, the default human response is I want to 0:03:25.369 --> 0:03:28.270 finish the work and get out of here as soon 0:03:28.279 --> 0:03:28.990 as possible. 0:03:29.270 --> 0:03:32.610 And therefore our decision making can also be compromised leading 0:03:32.619 --> 0:03:35.570 to accidents at workplaces. So we are after 0:03:36.429 --> 0:03:40.990 hi injury, productivity loss and then decision making leading to 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:45.339 the increase in accidents. Yeah. Speaking of accidents, this really 0:03:45.350 --> 0:03:48.009 is a matter of life and death, isn't it? We 0:03:48.020 --> 0:03:50.410 had the case last year, I believe of a migrant 0:03:50.419 --> 0:03:53.500 worker who fell from the roof of a seven story building. 0:03:53.509 --> 0:03:54.899 I think that one got a lot of attention and 0:03:54.910 --> 0:03:57.910 the coroner said it was likely because he was just 0:03:58.149 --> 0:04:01.179 oriented from the heat. We're talking about not just the 0:04:01.190 --> 0:04:04.429 impact on our physical health from the heat stress, but 0:04:04.500 --> 0:04:08.910 all these other repercussions from it. How bad is this situation? 0:04:09.059 --> 0:04:11.770 What is a clear and present danger? Yeah, if I 0:04:11.779 --> 0:04:14.339 may just to speculate on that case, of course, we 0:04:14.350 --> 0:04:19.178 didn't measure him during that incident, but basic physiology, tell 0:04:19.190 --> 0:04:19.428 us 0:04:19.868 --> 0:04:23.498 you get hot right immediately, you will need to shun 0:04:23.838 --> 0:04:27.739 your blood onto the skin to dissipate it onto the environment. 0:04:27.819 --> 0:04:30.569 And then if that is insufficient, we usually need to 0:04:30.579 --> 0:04:33.618 sweat to fight the heat. So there is this vassal 0:04:33.648 --> 0:04:38.389 dilation that is this uh increase in sweating. And hopefully, 0:04:38.398 --> 0:04:41.158 if the environment is dry enough, you can evaporate the 0:04:41.169 --> 0:04:41.488 sweat 0:04:41.730 --> 0:04:44.349 and therefore you lose the heat. Ok. In our context, 0:04:44.500 --> 0:04:48.149 the letter is also compromised because you can sweat. But 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.750 it doesn't mean you can evaporate all your sweats and 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.609 therefore your heat will be building up continuously. So in 0:04:54.619 --> 0:04:57.099 that case, it is not difficult to speculate when you 0:04:57.109 --> 0:04:57.700 have it in the 0:04:57.785 --> 0:05:00.974 vision. And remember that in the individual wasn't a young man, 0:05:01.095 --> 0:05:05.515 so probably have limited physiological capacity. So when the blood 0:05:05.524 --> 0:05:09.005 get shuns to the skin to lose the heat, right, 0:05:09.015 --> 0:05:12.424 there could be a drop in blood pressure and then 0:05:12.434 --> 0:05:15.704 you get lightheaded and then you could fall off. That 0:05:15.714 --> 0:05:19.704 happens quite commonly in other contexts where you go to 0:05:19.714 --> 0:05:20.113 Onsen 0:05:21.029 --> 0:05:26.630 and Sauna, you experience the acute experiences p that the experience, 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.670 you feel some lightheadedness because the blood now is being 0:05:29.678 --> 0:05:30.839 shunned to the skin. 0:05:31.140 --> 0:05:34.359 And you experience that acute light hitters. In most cases, 0:05:34.369 --> 0:05:37.769 you see you lie down, you know, but in few cases, 0:05:37.928 --> 0:05:40.130 you didn't have a chance and you collapse. And then 0:05:40.140 --> 0:05:44.399 in this case, he fell from heights. What specific risks 0:05:44.410 --> 0:05:49.070 do construction workers, migrant workers face that most of us 0:05:49.130 --> 0:05:53.730 cannot fully appreciate if we now zoom into occupational workers. Right? 0:05:53.738 --> 0:05:56.469 There are two type of work in general. One is 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.279 what we call a salary. You are paid by time, 0:05:59.709 --> 0:06:02.290 as long as you are there long enough you get pay. 0:06:02.660 --> 0:06:05.290 And in that case, most of the time you expect 0:06:05.299 --> 0:06:10.529 huge productivity loss, you know, because there's no motivation for 0:06:10.540 --> 0:06:13.190 them to work harder because they get the same pay 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.019 and then you will definitely suffer huge productive losses. In fact, 0:06:17.029 --> 0:06:19.769 in project hit safe, they just concluded it was a 0:06:19.779 --> 0:06:24.549 3.5 years project, we found there's a lot of productive 0:06:25.173 --> 0:06:30.113 implications because you tend to slow down when you are uncomfortable. 0:06:30.322 --> 0:06:33.222 But when we went to South Korea and profile a 0:06:33.233 --> 0:06:36.632 group of workers, they were doing delivering job and they 0:06:36.642 --> 0:06:41.513 were paid by peace. The ambient conditions were much milder 0:06:41.523 --> 0:06:44.833 than what we experienced in Singapore in Singapore, hovering about 0:06:44.842 --> 0:06:46.233 30 plus and minus 0:06:46.585 --> 0:06:49.555 in South Korea. Then it was 20. I was surprised 0:06:49.565 --> 0:06:54.075 the physiological strain was much higher in those workers working 0:06:54.085 --> 0:06:57.566 in cooler conditions. Why? Because they were paid by peace 0:06:57.726 --> 0:07:00.686 and therefore had the intrinsic motivation to work as hard 0:07:00.696 --> 0:07:03.566 as possible when you work as hard as possible. That 0:07:03.575 --> 0:07:06.484 is where you produce a lot of heat resulting in 0:07:06.496 --> 0:07:08.446 the hot human body. Also 0:07:09.140 --> 0:07:11.940 a point to emphasize is not always the case that 0:07:11.950 --> 0:07:17.579 hot environment means a hot human it depends on the context. Wow. 0:07:18.019 --> 0:07:21.410 So it cannot be looked at in isolation. That's what 0:07:21.420 --> 0:07:24.470 you're saying. Just the heat, the heat temperature alone broadly 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:28.339 what equates the hot worker as a function of the environment, 0:07:29.109 --> 0:07:33.190 the attire and the work. So environment is just one 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.040 factor we need to account for the attire and the 0:07:36.059 --> 0:07:40.000 kind of work. Singapore's Manpower Ministry last year imposed heat 0:07:40.010 --> 0:07:44.480 safety rules that employers need to follow. These include regular breaks, 0:07:44.559 --> 0:07:47.579 a lot of water and hydration, a place to cool down. 0:07:47.850 --> 0:07:51.170 But in a recent news report, the ministry said nearly 30% 0:07:51.179 --> 0:07:54.940 of some 250 work sites inspected in the second quarter 0:07:54.950 --> 0:07:58.190 of the year did not have those measures in place. 0:07:58.329 --> 0:08:02.109 Fines were imposed on some of them but should penalties 0:08:02.119 --> 0:08:06.549 be heavier in order to actually get these rules implemented 0:08:06.940 --> 0:08:11.179 the recommendations made last year, they called it enhanced hi measures. 0:08:11.489 --> 0:08:13.920 There's a list of things, but you mentioned a few 0:08:13.929 --> 0:08:18.829 get yourself heat acclimatize rest drink and when you rest, 0:08:18.839 --> 0:08:23.989 rest under shade, these are evidence based options. And so 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.049 we don't have to innovate for the sake of innovation. 0:08:27.059 --> 0:08:29.890 They are proven solution in this case, very low cost, 0:08:29.899 --> 0:08:32.059 very sustainable. We just say that you know 0:08:32.479 --> 0:08:36.129 this because your body temperature can recover and therefore you 0:08:36.138 --> 0:08:39.848 can be more productive to your point on whether we 0:08:39.859 --> 0:08:43.559 should punish eventually. Well, there's always a space for that. 0:08:43.568 --> 0:08:46.629 But before that, I think there is still room for 0:08:46.638 --> 0:08:50.729 us to increase the awareness. Why we are talking about 0:08:50.739 --> 0:08:53.379 providing these measures because I think 0:08:53.950 --> 0:08:57.530 you talk about rest, right? Immediately the employer would assume 0:08:57.590 --> 0:09:02.419 more rest. Yes, more welfare but bad business. I think 0:09:02.429 --> 0:09:06.439 that's the number one thing we need to debunk because 0:09:06.450 --> 0:09:09.468 in project he safe, we found when we introduce more 0:09:09.479 --> 0:09:14.640 rest productivity increases. Remember a lot of these workplaces are 0:09:14.650 --> 0:09:17.250 not paid by time ie they are not paid by peace, right? 0:09:17.260 --> 0:09:18.929 So if you don't give them rest, 0:09:19.510 --> 0:09:24.369 humans are very creative, I can slow down, I can 0:09:24.380 --> 0:09:27.859 go to the toilet in higher frequency. No one is 0:09:27.869 --> 0:09:31.030 going to stop me. So I'll find ways to rest 0:09:31.070 --> 0:09:35.960 huge present to occur in workplaces. Ah, so I think 0:09:36.130 --> 0:09:41.250 number one, we need to increase awareness. Convince the boardroom 0:09:41.619 --> 0:09:45.090 say that when we introduce hid measures, it's not just 0:09:45.099 --> 0:09:45.929 welfare 0:09:46.450 --> 0:09:50.728 is for good business. So if everyone believes and convince right, 0:09:50.739 --> 0:09:53.799 it is good for welfare, good for business, right? I 0:09:53.809 --> 0:09:57.118 would assume most will come on board. I think that 30% 0:09:57.130 --> 0:09:59.760 that Dean, right is because number one, they probably didn't 0:09:59.770 --> 0:10:02.440 appreciate said no, no, no. At the end of it 0:10:02.450 --> 0:10:05.119 is bottom line, we need to profit. There are other 0:10:05.130 --> 0:10:09.169 priorities so I cannot afford to give more rest. Number two, 0:10:09.929 --> 0:10:12.440 you have to see it from a recipient's perspective. We 0:10:12.450 --> 0:10:14.690 are saying now if you don't do this right? There's 0:10:14.700 --> 0:10:18.330 a risk of getting hit injured if I'm the worker. 0:10:18.340 --> 0:10:22.469 If I'm the delivery man, I said you're talking about risk, Jason, 0:10:22.669 --> 0:10:24.900 I'm talking about if I don't deliver more, right? It's 0:10:24.909 --> 0:10:27.229 not risk. I will earn less at the end of 0:10:27.239 --> 0:10:28.949 the day. You know, so I'm willing to take the 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:29.320 risk 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:34.260 and also from a behavioral and implementation sciences consideration. I 0:10:34.270 --> 0:10:37.299 think we need to incorporate that. We cannot assume when 0:10:37.309 --> 0:10:40.599 there are solutions, human will use the solution. So you 0:10:40.609 --> 0:10:44.010 must create a value why they should respond to these 0:10:44.020 --> 0:10:47.479 enhanced policies? If not, I think the 0:10:47.969 --> 0:10:50.488 the mindset will be wow, this is new set, then 0:10:50.500 --> 0:10:52.469 they will do the audit, they will check us out. 0:10:52.479 --> 0:10:54.789 You know, I think the spirit of which we conduct 0:10:54.799 --> 0:10:57.390 this will be wrong. I think there is still room 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.270 for us to augment maybe be 100%. But I think 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:04.750 there's still this 30% of poor adherence we can continue 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.159 to reduce. So 30% of poor adherence. Do you think 0:11:09.169 --> 0:11:12.270 the owners then should be on the companies or the individual? 0:11:12.659 --> 0:11:18.590 Both? Yeah, I think the individuals must first understand because 0:11:18.599 --> 0:11:20.780 at the end of it, we talk about heat injury, right? 0:11:20.789 --> 0:11:24.559 It goes down to the last man that he must 0:11:24.570 --> 0:11:27.760 be aware. If there are signs, I must take actions, 0:11:27.799 --> 0:11:30.760 but they will tell you I don't have the resources 0:11:30.770 --> 0:11:32.679 to incorporate all these measures. So 0:11:33.033 --> 0:11:37.602 my supervisors or employers have to be responsible and therefore 0:11:37.612 --> 0:11:40.533 going back to my earlier point, we must create a 0:11:40.583 --> 0:11:44.463 value why they should react in the first place. So 0:11:44.473 --> 0:11:49.583 you talked about simple low cost solutions to regulating body temperature. 0:11:49.593 --> 0:11:52.783 But what about long term innovative solutions that could 0:11:52.995 --> 0:11:58.306 viable? So swimming the proven solutions like getting yourself aerobically 0:11:58.315 --> 0:12:04.205 feed heat, acclimatize, optimizing your work rest cycle cooling and 0:12:04.216 --> 0:12:07.135 appropriate hydration is in place. And we find that oh 0:12:07.145 --> 0:12:09.204 it is still not enough, right? That is where it 0:12:09.216 --> 0:12:12.765 give us the motivation. Maybe innovation can fill the gap. 0:12:13.150 --> 0:12:16.640 So they work on automation. Do we need that labor 0:12:16.690 --> 0:12:21.130 intensive efforts every time that can come in specific to 0:12:21.140 --> 0:12:25.609 heat management? The workplace safety and Health institute also tested 0:12:25.619 --> 0:12:29.900 out the provision of ice slushy. OK, not the slurpee 0:12:29.909 --> 0:12:33.580 we get at the 7-Eleven, those are high in sugar 0:12:33.690 --> 0:12:36.459 but you can say pour any kind of sports ring 0:12:36.469 --> 0:12:39.530 that usually low in sugar with some electrolyte. It makes 0:12:39.539 --> 0:12:43.000 wonderful tasty ice slushy. So they have 0:12:43.500 --> 0:12:47.718 trial that the size is convincing and the biggest takeaway 0:12:47.729 --> 0:12:52.400 from that uh testing by WSH I was the workers 0:12:52.409 --> 0:12:54.890 like it so much. They say if this were to 0:12:54.900 --> 0:12:57.218 be implemented, they will pay for it 0:12:57.909 --> 0:13:00.900 today how it works in workplaces. They get their drinks 0:13:00.909 --> 0:13:05.340 from the vending machine, they pay back and then they 0:13:05.349 --> 0:13:08.250 get it. So we are asking for vendors to come 0:13:08.260 --> 0:13:11.150 on board to say now, can those vending machine also 0:13:11.159 --> 0:13:16.330 dispense isolate? There's also a concept especially from insights from 0:13:16.340 --> 0:13:19.539 project heat safe. We found actually most of the workers 0:13:19.799 --> 0:13:23.020 are were OK in terms of a physiological screen, in fact, 0:13:23.260 --> 0:13:27.780 as an average mean group response, right? We found that 0:13:27.789 --> 0:13:31.968 if anything they were under working, which picks the general 0:13:31.979 --> 0:13:34.449 impression if you if you are not paid by peace, right? 0:13:34.539 --> 0:13:38.520 I would slow down to preserve my health. And therefore, 0:13:38.530 --> 0:13:43.080 there's huge productivity implications. Having said that there were few 0:13:43.090 --> 0:13:46.840 individuals who were pushing the limits physiologically. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.580 And these are the individuals, they could be more vulnerable. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.020 They could be for other reason, very motivated individuals, even 0:13:54.030 --> 0:13:57.320 I'm not paid by piece, right. I'm just a motivated worker. 0:13:57.330 --> 0:14:00.640 I will give all out and the physiological strain were 0:14:00.650 --> 0:14:05.830 dangerously high above 39 °C while working, for example. So 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.419 from an innovation perspective, we are exploring whether we can 0:14:09.429 --> 0:14:10.859 first profile 0:14:11.380 --> 0:14:14.609 the group of workers who are more vulnerable to heat, right? 0:14:14.619 --> 0:14:19.270 There's this concept called the heats vulnerability index that incorporates 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:23.150 a lot of inputs, parameters, know your age, whether you 0:14:23.159 --> 0:14:26.359 are on medication, so and so forth and give you 0:14:26.369 --> 0:14:26.919 a score. 0:14:27.599 --> 0:14:29.799 So imagine we have that. Then we picked out these 0:14:29.809 --> 0:14:34.479 five guys out of 100 who are already more vulnerable. 0:14:34.570 --> 0:14:39.140 We could layer heart rate monitoring. That's another innovative approach, right? 0:14:39.330 --> 0:14:41.979 There are proven heart rate solutions there 0:14:42.299 --> 0:14:46.359 and then develop that threshold individually. So where no you 0:14:46.369 --> 0:14:49.539 cross a certain number, your heart rates, for example, I 0:14:49.549 --> 0:14:52.049 can pull you out by doing So, right, you pick 0:14:52.059 --> 0:14:54.210 out those who are high risk, then you can use 0:14:54.219 --> 0:14:56.309 this also to say, oh actually there are a group 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.780 that is not pushing hard enough, they want to because 0:14:59.789 --> 0:15:02.950 they have more physiological reserve to do so. So the 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.719 whole work model can also be revisited. 0:15:05.815 --> 0:15:09.284 So maybe there are some more intensive work you can 0:15:09.294 --> 0:15:11.914 segment then since you are healthier, you can push more. 0:15:11.924 --> 0:15:14.034 I will group you and you get paid more and 0:15:14.044 --> 0:15:17.405 those who are not so strong, maybe they are ok 0:15:17.414 --> 0:15:21.534 not to be overused. So especially when the manpower is shrinking, right? 0:15:21.544 --> 0:15:25.395 We need to job fits every worker in a more 0:15:25.405 --> 0:15:29.234 targeted manner. And don't assume everyone is the same 0:15:29.900 --> 0:15:32.929 in terms of a lot of these migrant workers, the 0:15:32.940 --> 0:15:36.440 issue for them isn't just outdoors though, right? Dormitories are 0:15:36.450 --> 0:15:39.539 also an area of concern. Given the number of people 0:15:39.549 --> 0:15:43.690 who are housed in an enclosed area, air conditioning rooms 0:15:43.700 --> 0:15:47.080 is also often too costly, not an option and not 0:15:47.090 --> 0:15:50.359 very climate friendly either. So space is a real issue. 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.729 What can we do or what can companies do to 0:15:54.739 --> 0:15:57.679 better manage this indoor heat factor? 0:15:58.039 --> 0:16:01.169 Yeah, that's an important point, right? Because our life is 0:16:01.179 --> 0:16:04.109 not just during the work exposure, we assume when we 0:16:04.119 --> 0:16:06.880 come home, in this case to the dormitories, they will 0:16:06.890 --> 0:16:09.400 be well rested. Most of the dorms based on my 0:16:09.409 --> 0:16:12.299 knowledge are not air conditioned, I think for the right 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.580 reason also air con, by the way, is a great 0:16:14.590 --> 0:16:16.419 invention is the 0:16:16.565 --> 0:16:20.025 allocation of air con like a lot of other big 0:16:20.034 --> 0:16:24.794 ticket items of in our society just disproportionately allocated usually 0:16:24.804 --> 0:16:27.525 the most vulnerable to have access to all the bells 0:16:27.534 --> 0:16:31.054 and whistles. But coming back to the conversations, we need 0:16:31.065 --> 0:16:34.104 to also ensure they rest well at night and thermal 0:16:34.114 --> 0:16:39.494 discomforts will degrade your sleep quality and some 0:16:39.900 --> 0:16:42.900 duration. This is all the more relevant in our context 0:16:42.909 --> 0:16:47.229 where the recent V three projection says that by mid century, OK, 0:16:47.239 --> 0:16:51.479 the scary statement is that based on best case scenario. 0:16:51.489 --> 0:16:54.349 So we don't have to imagine it will happen almost 0:16:54.359 --> 0:16:57.559 every night will be a warm night. So not rocket 0:16:57.570 --> 0:17:00.450 science if you don't recover, well, you keep on working 0:17:00.604 --> 0:17:03.534 over days, overweight, right. Then when you return to work 0:17:03.544 --> 0:17:05.994 next day, you don't expect you are fully sound and 0:17:06.005 --> 0:17:11.194 therefore as a higher risk, not just productivity losses, your concentration, 0:17:11.204 --> 0:17:15.765 therefore accidents and plus the accumulative work exposure, right? I 0:17:15.775 --> 0:17:19.305 think turns things will turn even worse if you don't 0:17:19.314 --> 0:17:22.385 ensure sufficient recovery at rest. 0:17:22.670 --> 0:17:26.030 So that is another segment through project heats, right? In 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:30.400 collaboration with overseas partner, we are also now looking at 0:17:30.410 --> 0:17:36.410 the dormitories condition and approaching the fan first approach design, 0:17:36.420 --> 0:17:40.160 the dormitories to make sure that we can optimize thermal 0:17:40.170 --> 0:17:43.889 comfort while they are resting. And earlier, you also touched 0:17:43.900 --> 0:17:47.010 on air conditioning, which really isn't the solution. And what 0:17:47.020 --> 0:17:49.079 struck me was that, as I mentioned earlier, I just 0:17:49.089 --> 0:17:50.599 came back from France and I don't know if you've 0:17:50.609 --> 0:17:51.130 been there 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.969 in the dead heat of summer, it gets so hot 0:17:56.010 --> 0:17:58.448 that it's almost like the weather here. But this is 0:17:58.459 --> 0:18:00.780 not an air conditioned country. So it's not like you 0:18:00.790 --> 0:18:03.609 can just run into a shopping center or go back 0:18:03.619 --> 0:18:06.260 home or your hotel or airbnb and turn on the 0:18:06.270 --> 0:18:09.400 air con. So for about two weeks, we had no 0:18:09.410 --> 0:18:12.050 air con and then I came back to Singapore and 0:18:12.060 --> 0:18:15.290 I had a climatized and you don't, it really struck 0:18:15.300 --> 0:18:18.099 me how two weeks away without air con 0:18:18.369 --> 0:18:20.869 and you're back in Singapore and you feel like there's 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.069 less of this dependence or addiction to it 0:18:24.630 --> 0:18:27.310 and it just became a really tangible way for me 0:18:27.319 --> 0:18:29.448 to think about. Oh, maybe I don't need to use 0:18:29.459 --> 0:18:32.530 my air con so much. There's somebody in your field. 0:18:32.540 --> 0:18:35.979 Do you look at how people can acclimatize better? Yeah. 0:18:36.380 --> 0:18:39.380 In fact, you have just unintentionally put yourself through two 0:18:39.390 --> 0:18:43.319 weeks of heat acclimatization and you are feeling the benefits, right? 0:18:43.329 --> 0:18:46.119 If I got to deal with this stress or called heat, right, 0:18:46.260 --> 0:18:49.329 then I expose myself. And in this case, exactly two 0:18:49.339 --> 0:18:50.369 or three weeks, that is actually 0:18:50.474 --> 0:18:54.334 the same recommendation or two or three weeks of exposure 0:18:54.344 --> 0:18:59.425 to heat will induce certain physiological responses and also behavior 0:18:59.435 --> 0:19:02.843 responses for you to better deal with heat. So you 0:19:02.854 --> 0:19:07.535 have increased skin blood flow, you have increased sweat loss. 0:19:07.545 --> 0:19:11.834 These are all favorable physiological adaptations. You also know how 0:19:11.844 --> 0:19:16.214 to pace yourself better upon exposure to heat. 0:19:16.319 --> 0:19:18.800 You say, oh Singapore after two weeks, surprising is not 0:19:18.810 --> 0:19:22.119 as hot because it was hotter elsewhere. The key difference 0:19:22.130 --> 0:19:24.849 between these two context is a population that only deal 0:19:24.859 --> 0:19:28.218 with heat. In France, right? Every summer for us in Singapore, 0:19:28.229 --> 0:19:31.180 we deal with heat. So our behavior response is really 0:19:31.189 --> 0:19:33.520 quite a thing, not so much that we will face 0:19:33.530 --> 0:19:36.319 the heat because we are living in the tropics, especially 0:19:36.329 --> 0:19:40.569 in Singapore coupled with the air con facilities almost everywhere, right? 0:19:40.670 --> 0:19:42.020 We are quite good 0:19:42.165 --> 0:19:45.135 in avoiding the heat too by hiding in your malls, 0:19:45.314 --> 0:19:49.545 cooling facilities. So actually most Singaporeans are actually not as 0:19:49.555 --> 0:19:53.854 physiologically heat acclimatized. As many assume when we travel, you're 0:19:53.864 --> 0:19:57.504 from Singapore, you must be tropical heat acclimatized, not true. 0:19:57.714 --> 0:20:00.494 You know, we are very good in avoiding the heat. 0:20:00.505 --> 0:20:04.063 And we thought and therefore look at our epidemiological evidence 0:20:04.074 --> 0:20:07.844 or data, we hardly have any heat stroke death. 0:20:08.510 --> 0:20:11.208 And that has been the exact reason why for the 0:20:11.219 --> 0:20:14.640 longest time, we have not take urgent action because we 0:20:14.650 --> 0:20:18.010 say usually we see heat news if somebody dying summer 0:20:18.020 --> 0:20:21.829 heat waves, you know fronts. But in Singapore, we don't 0:20:21.839 --> 0:20:23.968 have therefore, heat is not a problem. And we explain 0:20:23.979 --> 0:20:26.989 because we are very used to heat. We are very 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.849 used to heat in Singapore because we have options to 0:20:29.859 --> 0:20:32.919 avoid the heat and that itself will incur a lot 0:20:32.930 --> 0:20:34.839 of indirect implications. You know, 0:20:35.260 --> 0:20:39.520 lack of incidental physical activity, outdoor your activity count, you 0:20:39.530 --> 0:20:41.979 must almost like proportion time for it, right? You cannot 0:20:41.989 --> 0:20:45.199 say no this morning, I just walked five K to work. No, 0:20:45.209 --> 0:20:48.109 it won't happen in Singapore because you will get uncomfortable 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.030 mental health, which is a hot topic these days. And 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.479 with no lack of outdoor exposure, we will exacerbate mental health. 0:20:54.489 --> 0:20:56.020 Have we link our eye health 0:20:56.175 --> 0:20:59.324 huge prevalence, you know, on eye health because of lack 0:20:59.334 --> 0:21:01.875 of outdoor exposure. So we are actually paying the price 0:21:01.885 --> 0:21:04.675 for most of us here, not the workers for eye health. Yeah, 0:21:04.805 --> 0:21:08.635 lack of vitamin D. And there is evidence to say 0:21:08.645 --> 0:21:12.395 that there is a dopamine pathway that affects your eye 0:21:12.525 --> 0:21:15.594 and therefore your eye health can also be compromised, you know, 0:21:15.984 --> 0:21:19.594 but for the workers, right, this chronic heat exposure, not 0:21:19.604 --> 0:21:22.114 just the acute heat injury you will get, 0:21:22.510 --> 0:21:25.650 there are evidence coming from overseas. One of those things 0:21:25.660 --> 0:21:27.689 are li if you don't measure, we assume it's not 0:21:27.699 --> 0:21:30.198 a problem until you measure. Oh, you know this also 0:21:30.569 --> 0:21:32.329 because it's a function of whether you bother to find 0:21:32.339 --> 0:21:35.300 in the first place. So now in Central America and 0:21:35.310 --> 0:21:38.729 we see it happening in India and elsewhere 0:21:38.979 --> 0:21:42.520 that they begin to see long term exposure working in 0:21:42.530 --> 0:21:46.270 hot environment, you may not die due to heat stroke, 0:21:46.430 --> 0:21:50.170 but you will have this condition called chronic kidney disease. 0:21:50.180 --> 0:21:54.430 And they bracket it of an unknown source or nontraditional. 0:21:54.540 --> 0:21:56.880 So not the CD, usually because you have, 0:21:56.979 --> 0:21:59.829 have diabetes or you get it at the older age, 0:22:00.020 --> 0:22:03.979 you have young men in their thirties, early forties who 0:22:03.989 --> 0:22:08.979 are now performing dialysis, often diy dialysis back home because 0:22:08.989 --> 0:22:11.879 of the chronic heat exposure. Of course, heat is just 0:22:11.890 --> 0:22:15.520 one and the leading hypothesis is chronic heat stress, the 0:22:15.530 --> 0:22:17.410 other confounders. Is it because a lot of this? Ok. 0:22:17.420 --> 0:22:20.728 This worker I was just describing the sugar cane cutters. 0:22:20.739 --> 0:22:23.229 So they are being paid by peace. So in the 0:22:23.239 --> 0:22:26.599 whole psyche, I want to cut as much as possible. 0:22:26.959 --> 0:22:28.339 And if I keep on going to the toilet, it 0:22:28.349 --> 0:22:31.179 means I will cut less. So not just the heat, 0:22:31.329 --> 0:22:34.800