1 00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:02,368 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast, 2 00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:06,780 Speaker 1: greetings everyone, Chris Peter here and you're tuned in to 3 00:00:06,789 --> 00:00:10,299 Speaker 1: another episode of the Work It podcast. And I'm Adrian 4 00:00:10,310 --> 00:00:14,899 Speaker 1: ready to dive into a crucial topic today. Workplace stress, 5 00:00:14,909 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: something that all of us experience at least once in 6 00:00:17,489 --> 00:00:20,819 Speaker 1: our career. Christina, have you had a workplace stress moment 7 00:00:20,829 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: that may trigger PTSD when you think back to it? OK. 8 00:00:24,309 --> 00:00:26,959 Speaker 1: For me, I have to admit that I don't have 9 00:00:26,969 --> 00:00:30,620 Speaker 1: like one big event where I was breaking down and 10 00:00:30,629 --> 00:00:31,459 Speaker 1: I was crying. 11 00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:34,540 Speaker 1: I think that only happened when my second child was 12 00:00:34,549 --> 00:00:39,459 Speaker 1: a tantrum throwing devil. But at work for me, stress 13 00:00:39,470 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: is cyclical. That means if I have a new launch, 14 00:00:43,290 --> 00:00:45,819 Speaker 1: for example, or a big project that I have to 15 00:00:45,830 --> 00:00:51,169 Speaker 1: deliver on, then I start feeling the effects of stress. 16 00:00:51,180 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: And for me, it manifests itself in not being able 17 00:00:53,889 --> 00:00:54,430 Speaker 1: to sleep, 18 00:00:55,060 --> 00:00:57,139 Speaker 1: but then now not being able to sleep. Sounds like 19 00:00:57,150 --> 00:01:00,119 Speaker 1: kind of normal. Yeah, kind of normal. Nowadays, people don't 20 00:01:00,130 --> 00:01:03,529 Speaker 1: even want to sleep. They rather catch Netflix. Yeah, exactly. 21 00:01:03,540 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: So what about you, Adrian? The worst moment in my 22 00:01:06,370 --> 00:01:09,230 Speaker 1: life related to stress was when I was at the 23 00:01:09,239 --> 00:01:12,620 Speaker 1: tail end of my first business, I was dealing with 24 00:01:12,629 --> 00:01:16,750 Speaker 1: a political partner. I was dealing with bad businesses all 25 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,110 Speaker 1: compounded together to the effect where 26 00:01:19,540 --> 00:01:22,639 Speaker 1: I try not to fall asleep at night knowing that 27 00:01:22,650 --> 00:01:24,910 Speaker 1: next day I will face the same thing again. And 28 00:01:24,919 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: I would usually wake up in cold sweat. That was really, 29 00:01:27,809 --> 00:01:30,660 Speaker 1: really bad. And I was drinking too much. I was 30 00:01:30,669 --> 00:01:34,639 Speaker 1: smoking too much. It was, the compounding effect was really, 31 00:01:34,650 --> 00:01:36,910 Speaker 1: really bad. Yeah, I was looking at some of the 32 00:01:36,919 --> 00:01:39,230 Speaker 1: statistics and workplace stress has been 33 00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:43,389 Speaker 1: reported to cause something like 100 and 20,000 deaths in 34 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,300 Speaker 1: the US. Yeah, we normally think stress is, is quite 35 00:01:47,309 --> 00:01:49,790 Speaker 1: a parcel of life, right? But I think there might 36 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,059 Speaker 1: be something more to it and that's what we want 37 00:01:53,069 --> 00:01:56,319 Speaker 1: to discuss today. So our guest to talk us through 38 00:01:56,330 --> 00:01:59,290 Speaker 1: this is Camilla Dal Hansen, 39 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,660 Speaker 1: Chief Experience Officer at Seo and we'll be exploring the 40 00:02:03,669 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: nuances of navigating stress in the professional arena. Hi, Camilla, 41 00:02:07,769 --> 00:02:08,899 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. 42 00:02:08,929 --> 00:02:09,580 Speaker 2: Thank you. 43 00:02:09,758 --> 00:02:11,710 Speaker 1: So Camilla for a start. Can you share with the 44 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,500 Speaker 1: audience a bit about your background? 45 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,169 Speaker 2: Yeah, I started out my career in a consultancy. So 46 00:02:18,179 --> 00:02:20,210 Speaker 2: I have that was the first time where I was 47 00:02:20,220 --> 00:02:22,698 Speaker 2: also exposed to a lot of work, right? A lot 48 00:02:22,710 --> 00:02:23,580 Speaker 2: of different times 49 00:02:23,820 --> 00:02:25,809 Speaker 2: owns a lot of project work. So that was where 50 00:02:25,820 --> 00:02:29,309 Speaker 2: I started up. And then I went into the advertising 51 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,339 Speaker 2: industry and then equally bad, right. But it was also 52 00:02:34,350 --> 00:02:37,610 Speaker 2: truly inspiring and then I have been working in finance 53 00:02:37,619 --> 00:02:41,940 Speaker 2: 17 years. So we're in different leadership positions and also 54 00:02:41,949 --> 00:02:45,918 Speaker 2: different kinds of finance from the more traditional corporate now 55 00:02:45,929 --> 00:02:47,559 Speaker 2: in more fintech and the 56 00:02:47,869 --> 00:02:49,570 Speaker 2: more cool tech part, 57 00:02:49,899 --> 00:02:54,970 Speaker 1: but all very challenging industries, right? I know young people 58 00:02:54,979 --> 00:02:56,089 Speaker 1: who are in consultancy 59 00:02:56,610 --> 00:02:59,869 Speaker 1: and they tell me that the workload is pretty heavy. 60 00:03:00,339 --> 00:03:02,050 Speaker 2: It is a lot of hours, right? But what is 61 00:03:02,059 --> 00:03:04,990 Speaker 2: positive because the first time I've really experienced stress was 62 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: actually when I transitioned from being working with projects, working 63 00:03:09,250 --> 00:03:12,970 Speaker 2: in consultancy and advertising industry to actually have a corporate 64 00:03:12,979 --> 00:03:15,869 Speaker 2: job because I didn't have this period of OK, I 65 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,910 Speaker 2: have project to deliver. I had a specific deadline. Then 66 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,550 Speaker 2: I just realized, oh God, this will just continue, right? 67 00:03:21,788 --> 00:03:24,228 Speaker 2: So that was actually what was stressing me was like 68 00:03:24,820 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: before I had been working in an environment where there 69 00:03:27,089 --> 00:03:30,609 Speaker 2: was natural breaks or not really breaks, but natural periods 70 00:03:30,619 --> 00:03:33,149 Speaker 2: where it was not that busy, right? And suddenly coming 71 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,190 Speaker 2: into life where I had to navigate it, right? It 72 00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:38,210 Speaker 2: was simply myself needing to be in charge of how 73 00:03:38,220 --> 00:03:40,940 Speaker 2: much time should I spend? When should I let go? 74 00:03:40,949 --> 00:03:43,259 Speaker 2: When should I not check my emails? You know. So 75 00:03:43,270 --> 00:03:45,759 Speaker 2: that was for me, actually an experience. 76 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,389 Speaker 1: So when I read the email about you, the 77 00:03:49,475 --> 00:03:52,384 Speaker 1: thing that stood out for me was that this line 78 00:03:52,395 --> 00:03:54,085 Speaker 1: that was said that you were sent home for three 79 00:03:54,095 --> 00:03:57,574 Speaker 1: weeks due to stress. Ok, so then the journalist in 80 00:03:57,585 --> 00:04:01,035 Speaker 1: me is wondering, ok, that's a story in here. Tell 81 00:04:01,044 --> 00:04:01,273 Speaker 1: us what 82 00:04:01,285 --> 00:04:04,175 Speaker 2: happened. Yeah. So it happened, as just said, when I 83 00:04:04,184 --> 00:04:07,365 Speaker 2: went into the corporate life, I had a responsibility for 84 00:04:07,375 --> 00:04:10,255 Speaker 2: a lot of different countries. So I have to navigate, 85 00:04:10,425 --> 00:04:13,535 Speaker 2: there was a time zone difference, but it was also just, 86 00:04:13,544 --> 00:04:13,975 Speaker 2: you know, 87 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,380 Speaker 2: it was on clarity on also what I should expect 88 00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:20,890 Speaker 2: from myself and what was expected in the role. So 89 00:04:20,899 --> 00:04:25,079 Speaker 2: I tried to navigate a lot of uncertainty and especially 90 00:04:25,089 --> 00:04:28,630 Speaker 2: uncertainty with myself and my own expectations to what I 91 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,700 Speaker 2: wanted to deliver, right? The good thing about that experience 92 00:04:31,709 --> 00:04:34,540 Speaker 2: was that I had a really really good leader that 93 00:04:34,549 --> 00:04:37,989 Speaker 2: so before I burned out, he actually saw that this 94 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,959 Speaker 2: was I was transitioning into something which was not healthy, right? 95 00:04:40,970 --> 00:04:42,649 Speaker 2: He could see I was sending emails 96 00:04:42,746 --> 00:04:45,915 Speaker 2: all around 24 hours. So he was actually really good 97 00:04:45,925 --> 00:04:49,135 Speaker 2: at saying, hey, this is not healthy, you need to 98 00:04:49,145 --> 00:04:53,175 Speaker 2: take a break. So I think that was really, really positive, right? 99 00:04:53,186 --> 00:04:55,006 Speaker 2: And I think that's what we all should learn from 100 00:04:55,015 --> 00:04:58,126 Speaker 2: looking at our colleagues and our people that be engaged 101 00:04:58,145 --> 00:05:00,555 Speaker 2: in and see the sign and then act upon it. 102 00:05:00,565 --> 00:05:00,715 Speaker 2: Were 103 00:05:00,726 --> 00:05:04,846 Speaker 1: you experiencing any changes in the way you behave in 104 00:05:04,906 --> 00:05:07,756 Speaker 1: the way you interact during those tail end moment to 105 00:05:07,765 --> 00:05:10,205 Speaker 1: this whole thing before your boss feels that something is 106 00:05:10,216 --> 00:05:10,776 Speaker 1: really wrong. 107 00:05:10,971 --> 00:05:13,421 Speaker 2: See, I'm actually not impacted from a sleep perspective. I'm 108 00:05:13,432 --> 00:05:16,471 Speaker 2: a good sleeper. So it really, really helps me uh 109 00:05:16,481 --> 00:05:19,872 Speaker 2: limiting the stress factor, right? But I could see that 110 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,390 Speaker 2: I get more impatient, right. When people were asking me things, 111 00:05:24,402 --> 00:05:27,272 Speaker 2: I was like, ah, just take a decision, move on. 112 00:05:27,291 --> 00:05:29,842 Speaker 2: So I actually get impatient. So, I it's also a 113 00:05:29,851 --> 00:05:33,611 Speaker 2: barometer for me that I'm navigating when I sense that. Ok. 114 00:05:33,622 --> 00:05:36,851 Speaker 2: Now I'm really getting impatient. I'm not listening anymore. That's 115 00:05:36,861 --> 00:05:39,111 Speaker 2: a sign of me to step back 116 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:40,559 Speaker 2: and brief. I 117 00:05:40,570 --> 00:05:43,570 Speaker 1: was just gonna say that boss who was noticing and 118 00:05:43,579 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: was observant about your behavior is a very good thing 119 00:05:47,250 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 1: and sometimes not possible because in my experience, it could 120 00:05:51,690 --> 00:05:54,738 Speaker 1: be the boss who is sending emails at 3 a.m. 121 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: and people start wondering, should I respond? Like, 122 00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:02,929 Speaker 1: how soon do you want this to respond? Some of 123 00:06:02,940 --> 00:06:05,029 Speaker 1: them can manage this and they'll say, look, look, I 124 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,470 Speaker 1: can't sleep. I have this idea. So I just have 125 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,519 Speaker 1: to send it out, you know, you don't have to 126 00:06:09,529 --> 00:06:13,339 Speaker 1: respond blah, blah, blah. But yeah, it comes from the boss, right? Yeah. 127 00:06:13,559 --> 00:06:15,589 Speaker 1: So in many instances, of course, you may not have 128 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,510 Speaker 1: the luxury of such an observant boss. So in hindsight, 129 00:06:19,519 --> 00:06:20,868 Speaker 1: going through the experience, 130 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,339 Speaker 1: how do you recognize the signs that you're reaching breaking 131 00:06:25,350 --> 00:06:26,309 Speaker 1: point for yourself? 132 00:06:26,950 --> 00:06:28,979 Speaker 2: I'm very aware of it, right? And I think that 133 00:06:28,988 --> 00:06:31,820 Speaker 2: experience early in my career actually helped me to be 134 00:06:31,829 --> 00:06:34,299 Speaker 2: aware of it. So since then, I actually think I'm 135 00:06:34,309 --> 00:06:36,859 Speaker 2: in a good position to feel it's coming, right? 136 00:06:37,140 --> 00:06:39,630 Speaker 2: So I'm trying to listen to myself and as I 137 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,299 Speaker 2: just mentioned, the part of being impatient and not listening, 138 00:06:42,309 --> 00:06:45,549 Speaker 2: that's a sign for me. So that's normally the strongest sign, right? 139 00:06:45,559 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: And also when I come home and don't have the 140 00:06:47,209 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: capacity to talk with my kids, right? That's also a sign. 141 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: And then I have good friends around me that is 142 00:06:52,010 --> 00:06:54,980 Speaker 2: also good at mentioning it. So I really, really try 143 00:06:54,988 --> 00:06:56,929 Speaker 2: to navigate, I have a lot of attention points to 144 00:06:56,940 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: watch it. 145 00:06:57,559 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: And then I simply try to over the weekend not 146 00:07:00,010 --> 00:07:03,670 Speaker 2: interact with anything but actually try to find community and 147 00:07:03,678 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 2: just staying away. 148 00:07:04,709 --> 00:07:07,109 Speaker 1: Yeah. So what do you do now to make sure 149 00:07:07,119 --> 00:07:09,940 Speaker 1: that you manage this? Right? Do you tell yourself? Ok, 150 00:07:09,950 --> 00:07:12,429 Speaker 1: I need to cut off work at six o'clock and 151 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,220 Speaker 1: that's it. I mean, spend time with my kids and oh, 152 00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:17,140 Speaker 1: there's a no disturb zone or 153 00:07:17,244 --> 00:07:18,095 Speaker 1: how do you 154 00:07:18,105 --> 00:07:20,834 Speaker 2: manage this? I'm actually quite flexible. So I don't have 155 00:07:20,845 --> 00:07:23,505 Speaker 2: these rules. It's not working for me to have these rules. 156 00:07:23,515 --> 00:07:26,545 Speaker 2: So I'm trying some days I can just feel that ok, tonight, 157 00:07:26,554 --> 00:07:29,404 Speaker 2: I simply needs to close down no emails. I'm not 158 00:07:29,415 --> 00:07:32,065 Speaker 2: taking any phone calls. I will just put my phone away. 159 00:07:32,565 --> 00:07:34,665 Speaker 2: So I have some nights where I just know coming 160 00:07:34,674 --> 00:07:36,825 Speaker 2: home that this has been a long day. I'm tired. 161 00:07:37,079 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: I need to let go. Right. So I'm allowing myself 162 00:07:39,730 --> 00:07:42,078 Speaker 2: to be very flexible because that works better for me 163 00:07:42,230 --> 00:07:44,559 Speaker 2: to have the sometimes I have specific rules and other 164 00:07:44,570 --> 00:07:47,260 Speaker 2: times not. Right. So I think there's two factors. Right. 165 00:07:47,269 --> 00:07:49,299 Speaker 2: There's the personal thing where you really need to be 166 00:07:49,309 --> 00:07:51,380 Speaker 2: able to listen to yourself. So don't come in a 167 00:07:51,390 --> 00:07:52,500 Speaker 2: phase where you 168 00:07:52,959 --> 00:07:56,220 Speaker 2: have just forgotten to listen to anything, right? So you 169 00:07:56,230 --> 00:07:58,570 Speaker 2: need to do before you into that phase because then 170 00:07:58,579 --> 00:08:01,519 Speaker 2: it's gone, then it's difficult, you need to be aware 171 00:08:01,529 --> 00:08:05,299 Speaker 2: of the mechanism and then also make sure you are 172 00:08:05,309 --> 00:08:07,940 Speaker 2: in a workplace where you can actually talk about these things. 173 00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:10,420 Speaker 2: So I think also be open about it exactly as 174 00:08:10,429 --> 00:08:12,649 Speaker 2: we are doing now talking about it. I think that's 175 00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:15,899 Speaker 2: super important. So it's not become a normal thing and 176 00:08:15,910 --> 00:08:18,519 Speaker 2: everybody think everybody should be stressed out or burned out. 177 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:19,940 Speaker 2: I don't believe in that. I think 178 00:08:20,029 --> 00:08:21,940 Speaker 2: it's important that we don't come into these kind of 179 00:08:21,950 --> 00:08:24,769 Speaker 2: stones in our life. So we need to talk about, 180 00:08:25,100 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: I think you have great discipline because I need my 181 00:08:27,209 --> 00:08:29,399 Speaker 1: wife to grab my phone and run away so that 182 00:08:29,410 --> 00:08:31,890 Speaker 1: I won't have to check my phone constantly. I just 183 00:08:31,899 --> 00:08:35,569 Speaker 1: can't deal with open loops that easily. But I think 184 00:08:35,580 --> 00:08:38,750 Speaker 1: that is something definitely for people to consider and I 185 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,130 Speaker 1: just want to understand as well right now for the 186 00:08:42,140 --> 00:08:45,968 Speaker 1: younger generation it is really very trying for them to 187 00:08:45,979 --> 00:08:46,969 Speaker 1: navigate this 188 00:08:47,510 --> 00:08:49,979 Speaker 1: very different world. At least it is different from the 189 00:08:49,989 --> 00:08:52,710 Speaker 1: one that I grew up in where there's hybrid world. 190 00:08:52,719 --> 00:08:55,349 Speaker 1: We have people who go into the workforce and first 191 00:08:55,359 --> 00:08:58,580 Speaker 1: day everything is on zoom, everything is remote. They don't 192 00:08:58,590 --> 00:09:00,150 Speaker 1: know how to deal with their colleagues. They do not 193 00:09:00,159 --> 00:09:02,429 Speaker 1: know what's the expectation. So it's really common for them 194 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,409 Speaker 1: to manage very heavy workload. 195 00:09:04,940 --> 00:09:08,239 Speaker 1: How do you deal with such a group of people? 196 00:09:08,250 --> 00:09:10,989 Speaker 1: And what's your advice for them in managing the heavy 197 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,739 Speaker 1: load at work in this hybrid environment? I'm 198 00:09:13,750 --> 00:09:16,409 Speaker 2: a parent, I have three girls, right? So I've tried 199 00:09:16,419 --> 00:09:19,390 Speaker 2: to be a role model at home, right? I actually 200 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,650 Speaker 2: think it start from how we interact on social media 201 00:09:23,659 --> 00:09:27,179 Speaker 2: as kids. My kids are obviously very heavily impacted by 202 00:09:27,190 --> 00:09:30,189 Speaker 2: social media and being on and friends are calling or 203 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:31,409 Speaker 2: chatting all the time, right? 204 00:09:31,690 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 2: So I think it's a matter of already then being 205 00:09:34,210 --> 00:09:36,589 Speaker 2: a role model and show them that you need to 206 00:09:36,599 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: let go of your phone and not being present all 207 00:09:38,770 --> 00:09:41,070 Speaker 2: the time, right? And that's ok to be that right? 208 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,919 Speaker 2: So I think it actually starts in a really, really 209 00:09:42,929 --> 00:09:45,989 Speaker 2: young age. So when you come into the workplace that 210 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,728 Speaker 2: you actually have some good habits of you knowing how 211 00:09:48,739 --> 00:09:49,789 Speaker 2: to navigate that, right? 212 00:09:50,130 --> 00:09:52,829 Speaker 2: And then I think it is about making sure that 213 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,789 Speaker 2: you are clear as a leader on your expectations, even 214 00:09:55,799 --> 00:09:58,210 Speaker 2: though I'm sending email late at night, I don't expect 215 00:09:58,219 --> 00:10:00,130 Speaker 2: you to do it and you might have employees that 216 00:10:00,140 --> 00:10:03,460 Speaker 2: still think, ok, she really means this, but then repeat 217 00:10:03,469 --> 00:10:05,349 Speaker 2: it and stay true to it, right? That you don't 218 00:10:05,359 --> 00:10:08,130 Speaker 2: expect it. So I think it's very much about navigating 219 00:10:08,140 --> 00:10:10,710 Speaker 2: and man's expectation as a leader, be very clear about 220 00:10:10,719 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: how you work and what you expect and then show 221 00:10:13,330 --> 00:10:16,270 Speaker 2: it most importantly, right? Show that you can actually 222 00:10:16,377 --> 00:10:19,357 Speaker 2: so so do it yourself and be a role model, right? 223 00:10:19,648 --> 00:10:22,228 Speaker 2: And then sometimes remember, I know some of my employees 224 00:10:22,237 --> 00:10:24,506 Speaker 2: are also saying it's super nice to hear that you 225 00:10:24,518 --> 00:10:26,937 Speaker 2: Friday afternoon. I think I have to leave early because 226 00:10:26,947 --> 00:10:29,197 Speaker 2: I have to spend time with my kids. So I 227 00:10:29,208 --> 00:10:32,357 Speaker 2: also remember as role model to speak up when you 228 00:10:32,367 --> 00:10:34,578 Speaker 2: are actually off or when you do something that is 229 00:10:34,588 --> 00:10:37,708 Speaker 2: not work related. So they also see that senior leaders 230 00:10:37,718 --> 00:10:40,277 Speaker 2: are also able sometimes to be, 231 00:10:40,328 --> 00:10:42,237 Speaker 1: I think 232 00:10:42,625 --> 00:10:46,565 Speaker 1: Singapore especially we have a big problem saying that we 233 00:10:46,575 --> 00:10:49,676 Speaker 1: are on a down time. We have a big problem saying, OK, 234 00:10:49,684 --> 00:10:51,744 Speaker 1: you know what I'm taking the Friday off because my 235 00:10:51,755 --> 00:10:55,565 Speaker 1: kid is performing in a concert, we never do that. 236 00:10:56,385 --> 00:10:58,265 Speaker 2: No. And I think that's important. But I also can 237 00:10:58,276 --> 00:11:00,906 Speaker 2: see in the statistics that you are also very exposed 238 00:11:00,916 --> 00:11:03,035 Speaker 2: to stress in Singapore, right? A lot of people do 239 00:11:03,046 --> 00:11:06,065 Speaker 2: feel stressed or or burn out, right? And I think 240 00:11:06,075 --> 00:11:08,325 Speaker 2: we are in that lucky situation where I come, I'm 241 00:11:08,335 --> 00:11:08,765 Speaker 2: grown up 242 00:11:08,874 --> 00:11:11,434 Speaker 2: Denmark, right? That we are actually having a lot of 243 00:11:11,443 --> 00:11:15,022 Speaker 2: focus on flexibility and mental health, right? It doesn't mean 244 00:11:15,033 --> 00:11:17,493 Speaker 2: that we don't have a lot of also people that 245 00:11:17,504 --> 00:11:20,643 Speaker 2: are HIPA stressed, it's also increasing the numbers, right? Uh 246 00:11:20,653 --> 00:11:22,914 Speaker 2: But I think the ability to talk about it and 247 00:11:22,924 --> 00:11:25,453 Speaker 2: be aware and also get help when you need it. 248 00:11:26,174 --> 00:11:30,934 Speaker 1: Exactly, you're right about leaders setting a good example not 249 00:11:30,943 --> 00:11:33,754 Speaker 1: to show that you are super human. And then you 250 00:11:33,763 --> 00:11:35,013 Speaker 1: can handle all of this 251 00:11:35,122 --> 00:11:38,081 Speaker 1: staff to be genuine about talking about it. 252 00:11:38,671 --> 00:11:40,790 Speaker 2: But it all comes down to one thing is leaders, right? 253 00:11:40,802 --> 00:11:43,822 Speaker 2: And you pick the right workplace, so to speak. But 254 00:11:43,831 --> 00:11:46,202 Speaker 2: another thing is you need to stay confident in yourself. 255 00:11:46,211 --> 00:11:48,882 Speaker 2: And I think that's the biggest challenge that that you 256 00:11:48,892 --> 00:11:52,341 Speaker 2: as a person needs to also believe stay true to 257 00:11:52,351 --> 00:11:55,211 Speaker 2: your own value and way of living, right? And I 258 00:11:55,221 --> 00:11:57,622 Speaker 2: think that is often the hardest part because you get 259 00:11:57,631 --> 00:12:00,111 Speaker 2: so much impact by other people. And what is the 260 00:12:00,122 --> 00:12:01,262 Speaker 2: expectations here? Right. 261 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:03,238 Speaker 2: So I really think once in a while it's healthy 262 00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: to stop up and just reflect a bit. Is this OK? 263 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,189 Speaker 2: Is this OK for me, is it actually how I 264 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,159 Speaker 2: wanted to live my life to do these reflections? Right? 265 00:12:12,409 --> 00:12:14,468 Speaker 2: And then be bold enough also to be 266 00:12:14,479 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: brave enough to say maybe you know what I've got 267 00:12:18,570 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: this great banking job, but it's killing me. 268 00:12:22,489 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 2: Exactly. That is super, super important. Right? So we need 269 00:12:25,849 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: to embrace change. Of course, there's a lot of 270 00:12:27,729 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: changes in the world and we are living also geopolitical uncertainty. 271 00:12:31,289 --> 00:12:33,419 Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that are impacting us. Right? 272 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,468 Speaker 2: But it should not be an excuse for not taking 273 00:12:36,479 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 2: our own responsibility for ourselves. 274 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:41,309 Speaker 1: I was reading a comic strip earlier today and it's 275 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,409 Speaker 1: about this two colleagues, one of them telling the other one, hey, 276 00:12:44,419 --> 00:12:47,270 Speaker 1: there's a new job, great job with good perks and 277 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,179 Speaker 1: great pay. And this other company, why don't you go 278 00:12:49,190 --> 00:12:51,359 Speaker 1: and apply? The other colleague said, no, I have something 279 00:12:51,369 --> 00:12:53,718 Speaker 1: even better here. Was that peace of mind? 280 00:12:54,859 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: So I think sometimes we also have to look at 281 00:12:56,890 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: the broader picture. It's not just the money which of 282 00:12:59,690 --> 00:13:03,858 Speaker 1: course come with hours extensive work traveling this and that 283 00:13:04,010 --> 00:13:06,179 Speaker 1: it of course, depends very much on the individual. If 284 00:13:06,190 --> 00:13:08,590 Speaker 1: you're the type a personality, wake up at four, go 285 00:13:08,599 --> 00:13:13,309 Speaker 1: running at five. Probably it is ok for you. But yeah, 286 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,239 Speaker 1: so I wanted to come back to that right. There 287 00:13:15,250 --> 00:13:18,599 Speaker 1: are people who handle stress maybe a little bit better 288 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,750 Speaker 1: or you think they're just masking it better? 289 00:13:22,890 --> 00:13:25,189 Speaker 2: I think there's people that handle this better. And I 290 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,789 Speaker 2: think it comes down to having some self-confident and maybe 291 00:13:28,799 --> 00:13:31,380 Speaker 2: being grown up by also believing that you need to 292 00:13:31,390 --> 00:13:35,619 Speaker 2: trust yourself. And so I think it's very it takes time, 293 00:13:35,630 --> 00:13:39,609 Speaker 2: but it also takes part to say no and yes 294 00:13:39,619 --> 00:13:40,909 Speaker 2: and reflect upon that. Right. 295 00:13:41,140 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 2: So I think the best gift that we can give 296 00:13:43,330 --> 00:13:46,309 Speaker 2: our kids is actually to know that you always have 297 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,049 Speaker 2: the ability to speak up. And I think that's something 298 00:13:49,059 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 2: that I'm very much out of that belief that you 299 00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:54,229 Speaker 2: can do everything in life. As long as you stay 300 00:13:54,239 --> 00:13:56,599 Speaker 2: true to yourself, it's so easy to say and it 301 00:13:56,609 --> 00:13:57,239 Speaker 2: sounds so 302 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,390 Speaker 2: to do it. But I think if you really practice 303 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,299 Speaker 2: throughout life and you have moments where you succeed doing that, 304 00:14:03,409 --> 00:14:07,179 Speaker 2: it also gives you even more comfort to continue. I 305 00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 2: think 306 00:14:07,570 --> 00:14:10,109 Speaker 1: that's a big work in progress for, for us in 307 00:14:10,119 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: Singapore because we have a very predetermined idea of what 308 00:14:15,770 --> 00:14:19,719 Speaker 1: is success and once we attain that, so for example, 309 00:14:19,729 --> 00:14:22,929 Speaker 1: if you get to a really big firm or a 310 00:14:22,940 --> 00:14:25,570 Speaker 1: top law firm or banking, et cetera, 311 00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:30,770 Speaker 1: the pressure to keep up and to maintain that because 312 00:14:30,780 --> 00:14:33,390 Speaker 1: you work so hard. Your entire life in Singapore, you 313 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,859 Speaker 1: start working at six years all because of the education, 314 00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:43,210 Speaker 1: you go into this existential crisis about letting go. And 315 00:14:43,219 --> 00:14:47,010 Speaker 1: so maybe that manifests itself in the mental health issues 316 00:14:47,020 --> 00:14:49,590 Speaker 1: that we're facing among young people especially. 317 00:14:50,039 --> 00:14:52,599 Speaker 2: And I also think it's ok to be ambitious, right? 318 00:14:52,609 --> 00:14:55,099 Speaker 2: I have also been very ambitious in my career. I 319 00:14:55,109 --> 00:14:57,479 Speaker 2: worked hard and want to show. So I'm a very 320 00:14:57,489 --> 00:15:00,739 Speaker 2: competitive person, right? So I have all the ingredients to 321 00:15:00,750 --> 00:15:02,369 Speaker 2: do that. So I also think we need to differ 322 00:15:02,380 --> 00:15:02,750 Speaker 2: between 323 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,119 Speaker 2: when I actually have decided that it's ok to work 324 00:15:06,130 --> 00:15:09,780 Speaker 2: hard or for long hours and accept that. Ok, I 325 00:15:09,789 --> 00:15:12,049 Speaker 2: might have some nights where it's harder to sleep or 326 00:15:12,059 --> 00:15:15,659 Speaker 2: I get a few hours, but it's also, it's actually ok. Right. 327 00:15:15,669 --> 00:15:17,950 Speaker 2: It's also, I think we need to find the balance 328 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,900 Speaker 2: about what it actually means to be stressed and burned out, right? 329 00:15:20,989 --> 00:15:23,510 Speaker 2: Because it's also really good to work in this environment 330 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,500 Speaker 2: where you get a lot of energy from a lot of, 331 00:15:26,164 --> 00:15:28,034 Speaker 2: right. So I think we also need to be better 332 00:15:28,044 --> 00:15:30,525 Speaker 2: at seeing, you know, OK, I picked this for myself. 333 00:15:30,534 --> 00:15:33,325 Speaker 2: I actually are truly passionate about that and get the 334 00:15:33,335 --> 00:15:35,364 Speaker 2: best out of it, right? And of course, if it's 335 00:15:35,375 --> 00:15:37,885 Speaker 2: not working over time, then we need to change, right? 336 00:15:38,034 --> 00:15:40,375 Speaker 2: But I also think we need to embrace it and say, ok, 337 00:15:40,385 --> 00:15:42,455 Speaker 2: I've actually made up my mind. I want to do this, 338 00:15:42,465 --> 00:15:45,205 Speaker 2: I want to show results. It comes with a price. Yes. 339 00:15:45,294 --> 00:15:47,575 Speaker 2: And I think that's also something that we sometimes need 340 00:15:47,585 --> 00:15:48,405 Speaker 2: to reflect upon 341 00:15:48,650 --> 00:15:51,030 Speaker 2: and it's difficult to do both, right? It's difficult to, 342 00:15:51,210 --> 00:15:53,679 Speaker 2: to just want to have a long career where you're 343 00:15:53,690 --> 00:15:57,109 Speaker 2: very successful without it, it not paying anything. Right. So 344 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,590 Speaker 2: that's just important that we all evaluate how much is 345 00:16:02,599 --> 00:16:04,789 Speaker 2: it worth it? Is it too much for me? Should 346 00:16:04,830 --> 00:16:07,669 Speaker 2: I lower my expectation and that you navigate that 347 00:16:08,239 --> 00:16:11,710 Speaker 1: I remember the Google Head was when we were asking him, 348 00:16:12,169 --> 00:16:15,150 Speaker 1: you have some sacrifices to make, right? And so he says, yeah, 349 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:17,590 Speaker 1: you got to put in the hard yards. And so 350 00:16:17,599 --> 00:16:20,210 Speaker 1: if you're young, you always say it's easier to put 351 00:16:20,219 --> 00:16:20,940 Speaker 1: in the hard yards. 352 00:16:22,119 --> 00:16:24,710 Speaker 2: But it comes with a price, right? It comes with 353 00:16:24,719 --> 00:16:27,549 Speaker 2: something I'm not seeing my friends to the great extent 354 00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:29,710 Speaker 2: I would love to, I prioritize work and then my 355 00:16:29,719 --> 00:16:31,030 Speaker 2: family and that's it. Right? 356 00:16:31,460 --> 00:16:33,700 Speaker 2: And it comes with a cost. Uh Right. And then 357 00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:36,039 Speaker 2: there's other periods of life, I very much believe in that. 358 00:16:36,049 --> 00:16:38,510 Speaker 2: We also have different phases in life, right? You say 359 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: then in this 10 years, I will truly invest in 360 00:16:41,650 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: my career and then it might be different later. Right? 361 00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:46,349 Speaker 2: So I also think that's something to, you know, how 362 00:16:46,359 --> 00:16:48,479 Speaker 2: do we navigate these different transitions, I guess, 363 00:16:48,489 --> 00:16:49,869 Speaker 1: ultimately depends on 364 00:16:50,429 --> 00:16:54,090 Speaker 1: what you're optimizing for at different phase in life. But 365 00:16:54,099 --> 00:16:56,169 Speaker 1: I do agree when I was younger, it's so much 366 00:16:56,179 --> 00:16:59,369 Speaker 1: easier to just brute force your way through. Put in 367 00:16:59,380 --> 00:17:02,049 Speaker 1: more hours and work at 11 next day, wake up 368 00:17:02,059 --> 00:17:05,540 Speaker 1: the same time. But nowadays, wow, the whole body ache. 369 00:17:06,380 --> 00:17:08,900 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. You're right. That's also why for me, 370 00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:09,380 Speaker 2: it's super 371 00:17:09,614 --> 00:17:12,724 Speaker 2: important to have some pleasure in the dates throughout at 372 00:17:12,765 --> 00:17:14,954 Speaker 2: night or in the weekend. So you're not waiting for 373 00:17:14,964 --> 00:17:18,234 Speaker 2: the next vacation or in five years, this will happen. Right. I, 374 00:17:18,244 --> 00:17:20,405 Speaker 2: I can work like that. So I think for me 375 00:17:20,415 --> 00:17:22,435 Speaker 2: it's also the older I get, the more I actually 376 00:17:22,444 --> 00:17:24,494 Speaker 2: need to make sure that I have some breaks in 377 00:17:24,505 --> 00:17:26,645 Speaker 2: between where I can have a Saturday where I really 378 00:17:26,655 --> 00:17:28,354 Speaker 2: enjoy it and don't think about it. So, 379 00:17:29,459 --> 00:17:33,929 Speaker 1: yes, this involves flying to KL over the weekend. Even 380 00:17:33,939 --> 00:17:36,609 Speaker 1: if you've got lots to do. Yeah, I do agree 381 00:17:36,619 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: that taking regular breaks, I think bottom line is you 382 00:17:39,369 --> 00:17:42,770 Speaker 1: need to know who you are and how you respond 383 00:17:42,780 --> 00:17:46,239 Speaker 1: to stress that no two people do it the same way, right? 384 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,900 Speaker 1: OK. As a matter of wrapping, I just want to 385 00:17:48,910 --> 00:17:51,179 Speaker 1: check with you. One of the things I think in 386 00:17:51,189 --> 00:17:54,050 Speaker 1: your CV that I, what I found was interesting was 387 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: you felt that mentorship was very important in a person's career. 388 00:17:58,310 --> 00:18:02,180 Speaker 1: Have you had good mentors? And what was the best 389 00:18:02,189 --> 00:18:07,139 Speaker 1: kind of advice that you got navigating this long successful career? 390 00:18:08,089 --> 00:18:11,339 Speaker 2: I have had very good mentors in life. So and 391 00:18:11,349 --> 00:18:14,290 Speaker 2: it's changing for me, it has been changing mentors. So 392 00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: very much depend on where, where you are, where I 393 00:18:17,010 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 2: am in my career. It it's different mentorships. My biggest 394 00:18:21,209 --> 00:18:24,229 Speaker 2: takeaway have actually been the fact of being true to yourself, right? 395 00:18:24,479 --> 00:18:26,829 Speaker 2: And that's also why I have had the philosophy of 396 00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: being your own role model, right? Of course, I want 397 00:18:29,050 --> 00:18:30,849 Speaker 2: to be a role model for others and actually pave 398 00:18:30,859 --> 00:18:33,780 Speaker 2: the way. But I also take the responsibility and see 399 00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: and say, how do I want to act? And I 400 00:18:35,810 --> 00:18:38,010 Speaker 2: think that has been one of my biggest learning. And 401 00:18:38,020 --> 00:18:40,540 Speaker 2: I remember one of my mentors was also telling me 402 00:18:40,819 --> 00:18:43,978 Speaker 2: at some point where I was looking into a career opportunity. 403 00:18:44,209 --> 00:18:45,959 Speaker 2: I said, but I can never, you know, it's not 404 00:18:45,969 --> 00:18:48,579 Speaker 2: for me, I'm lacking, it's typical a female thing. I 405 00:18:48,589 --> 00:18:51,020 Speaker 2: think this one, but I'm lacking some skill sets here. 406 00:18:51,030 --> 00:18:53,369 Speaker 2: And this part, I'm not, I don't know that much 407 00:18:53,380 --> 00:18:55,349 Speaker 2: about my mentor was also saying, hey, you don't need 408 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,170 Speaker 2: to look at the person that is in that position 409 00:18:57,180 --> 00:19:00,030 Speaker 2: right now. You need to think what can I contribute 410 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 2: with and not compare yourself with the other person next 411 00:19:02,890 --> 00:19:05,319 Speaker 2: to you that is actually having that position. So I 412 00:19:05,329 --> 00:19:07,429 Speaker 2: think that for me have been a really good learning 413 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,729 Speaker 2: that even though you look at people and say, ok, 414 00:19:09,739 --> 00:19:11,709 Speaker 2: if I need to be a CEO like this, I 415 00:19:11,719 --> 00:19:13,060 Speaker 2: need to behave exactly like 416 00:19:13,172 --> 00:19:15,552 Speaker 2: the guy I'm looking at right now. No, you actually 417 00:19:15,561 --> 00:19:17,402 Speaker 2: can do it in your own way. And I think 418 00:19:17,412 --> 00:19:19,983 Speaker 2: that was the best advice for me not to compare 419 00:19:19,993 --> 00:19:22,633 Speaker 2: yourself with how others are doing it. But believe that 420 00:19:22,642 --> 00:19:25,093 Speaker 2: what I bring might be different. But I'm sure I 421 00:19:25,103 --> 00:19:28,243 Speaker 2: can see with that right, when I'm mentors for some 422 00:19:28,253 --> 00:19:31,733 Speaker 2: of my employees or previously employees that I am actually 423 00:19:31,743 --> 00:19:34,391 Speaker 2: inspired them also to say, don't compare yourself all the time, right? 424 00:19:34,402 --> 00:19:37,463 Speaker 2: Because you can always find somebody that are smarter faster, 425 00:19:37,473 --> 00:19:41,953 Speaker 2: work harder, right? But long, right? And then, 426 00:19:42,135 --> 00:19:44,625 Speaker 2: and everybody's looking at you and thinking the same, right? 427 00:19:44,755 --> 00:19:48,004 Speaker 2: So I think that's important, don't compare yourself too much 428 00:19:48,244 --> 00:19:50,095 Speaker 2: because you will never win that game. Yeah, 429 00:19:50,105 --> 00:19:52,895 Speaker 1: you will never win that game. It's so hard to 430 00:19:52,906 --> 00:19:57,076 Speaker 1: do in Singapore comparison is a real competitive spot here, 431 00:19:57,205 --> 00:20:00,125 Speaker 1: especially with social media. Everyone's comparing with each other and 432 00:20:00,135 --> 00:20:01,055 Speaker 1: everyone's depressed, 433 00:20:02,845 --> 00:20:03,125 Speaker 2: get off 434 00:20:03,215 --> 00:20:06,745 Speaker 1: social media, but it's easier to do allowing kids will 435 00:20:06,755 --> 00:20:09,836 Speaker 1: never get off social media. They live in it. Anything 436 00:20:09,845 --> 00:20:10,955 Speaker 1: else to add Adrian? 437 00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: I think maybe just a final bit on any tactical 438 00:20:15,050 --> 00:20:18,030 Speaker 1: advice for people who may want to start managing their 439 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,589 Speaker 1: own stress. I know you mentioned some bit about stop 440 00:20:20,599 --> 00:20:23,188 Speaker 1: checking your handphone at certain hours. What about things that 441 00:20:23,199 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: are a bit more intentional, like meditation, breathing exercises? 442 00:20:28,209 --> 00:20:30,930 Speaker 1: Have you tried those? Would you encourage others to try 443 00:20:30,939 --> 00:20:31,140 Speaker 1: those 444 00:20:31,150 --> 00:20:35,939 Speaker 2: stuff? I have tried, yeah, breathing techniques and meditation and 445 00:20:35,949 --> 00:20:38,420 Speaker 2: I'm doing it once in a while. But I have 446 00:20:38,430 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 2: to admit I'm not that consistent in these things. I 447 00:20:41,650 --> 00:20:44,189 Speaker 2: would love to be right. What works for me is that? 448 00:20:44,199 --> 00:20:46,468 Speaker 2: Go for a long walk, right? Be alone and be 449 00:20:46,479 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 2: out in the night to use so that what works 450 00:20:49,969 --> 00:20:50,540 Speaker 2: best for me 451 00:20:51,045 --> 00:20:54,925 Speaker 2: to leave everybody, not interact, not talk, but find a 452 00:20:54,935 --> 00:20:56,645 Speaker 2: good place where it gives you energy for me. It's 453 00:20:56,655 --> 00:20:59,464 Speaker 2: the nature, it's walking in the nature without any people 454 00:20:59,474 --> 00:21:02,135 Speaker 2: around me, it could be different things but find a 455 00:21:02,145 --> 00:21:05,175 Speaker 2: sweet spot where you actually know that here. I actually 456 00:21:05,185 --> 00:21:08,395 Speaker 2: can lean in be myself and get some energy, right. 457 00:21:08,435 --> 00:21:08,885 Speaker 2: I can't do 458 00:21:08,935 --> 00:21:12,694 Speaker 1: meditation either. Five minutes in. And I'm thinking about a 459 00:21:12,704 --> 00:21:13,675 Speaker 1: to do list. 460 00:21:15,089 --> 00:21:17,540 Speaker 2: But if you practice, I think it is very, yeah, 461 00:21:17,550 --> 00:21:19,819 Speaker 2: I would love to do 462 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,948 Speaker 1: with that. And yes, that's a good goal plan. So 463 00:21:23,959 --> 00:21:27,869 Speaker 1: as we wrap up this insightful episode on managing workplace stress, 464 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,910 Speaker 1: we want to extend our gratitude to Camilla for sharing 465 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,750 Speaker 1: her experiences and wisdom. I think this episode is really 466 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,150 Speaker 1: a good reminder of the kind of stress that everyone 467 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,609 Speaker 1: is facing, everyone has their own demand that they have 468 00:21:41,619 --> 00:21:42,030 Speaker 1: to fight. 469 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,609 Speaker 1: But a lot of times we just take it as 470 00:21:44,619 --> 00:21:48,379 Speaker 1: a given and just continue our way of life. But 471 00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:50,589 Speaker 1: if you are a bit more intentional, you can be 472 00:21:50,599 --> 00:21:53,688 Speaker 1: more observant, maybe you can detect some of your breaking 473 00:21:53,699 --> 00:21:56,849 Speaker 1: point and try to prevent going through that whole cycle 474 00:21:56,859 --> 00:21:59,208 Speaker 1: and be the next person to be sent home for 475 00:21:59,219 --> 00:22:02,260 Speaker 1: three weeks. My takeaway is that the reality is that 476 00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:05,589 Speaker 1: we live in a society. I mean, I can't choose, well, 477 00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:07,659 Speaker 1: I can choose to work somewhere else, but I, I 478 00:22:07,670 --> 00:22:11,489 Speaker 1: am in Singapore and it's a very, very competitive society. 479 00:22:11,750 --> 00:22:14,890 Speaker 1: It is what it is, but I can like you say, 480 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:18,869 Speaker 1: choose to know exactly what my trigger points are not, 481 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,260 Speaker 1: wait for my boss to say, hey, is something, ok? 482 00:22:22,270 --> 00:22:24,849 Speaker 1: Is something wrong? Your boss may not see, your boss 483 00:22:24,859 --> 00:22:27,410 Speaker 1: may not care. It's not that 484 00:22:27,545 --> 00:22:30,234 Speaker 1: bad people or anything, but they have 100 and one 485 00:22:30,244 --> 00:22:32,724 Speaker 1: things to worry about their own and they have their 486 00:22:32,734 --> 00:22:35,915 Speaker 1: own stress and they are outcome based, right? So I 487 00:22:35,925 --> 00:22:39,185 Speaker 1: feel very strongly that especially for the young people who 488 00:22:39,194 --> 00:22:41,954 Speaker 1: always tell me that they can't handle their work life 489 00:22:41,964 --> 00:22:43,234 Speaker 1: balance is out of whack 490 00:22:43,540 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 1: is to really center yourself and ask yourself these key questions. 491 00:22:48,170 --> 00:22:50,500 Speaker 1: What is it that I'm doing? Am I adding value? 492 00:22:50,510 --> 00:22:54,750 Speaker 1: Is this making me happy and then decide, ok, if 493 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,909 Speaker 1: it's not, there's a line and then I have to 494 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: do something about it. So that's my takeaway talking to Camilla. 495 00:23:02,540 --> 00:23:04,579 Speaker 2: And that's also why you need to identify your true 496 00:23:04,589 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 2: passion point, right? Because I believe if you 497 00:23:06,552 --> 00:23:09,223 Speaker 2: find something that you are truly passionate about and find 498 00:23:09,233 --> 00:23:12,311 Speaker 2: in Indian, you are actually able to feel also where 499 00:23:12,321 --> 00:23:14,282 Speaker 2: do I need to say yes and no to things? Right. 500 00:23:14,412 --> 00:23:17,612 Speaker 2: So I think that's very important right? Throughout life, that 501 00:23:17,623 --> 00:23:20,863 Speaker 2: you also trust yourself to actually find that sweet spot 502 00:23:20,873 --> 00:23:23,733 Speaker 2: where you know, you can perform and be a good person. 503 00:23:23,973 --> 00:23:25,483 Speaker 2: And yeah, even if you 504 00:23:25,493 --> 00:23:29,453 Speaker 1: are a lawyer and you're working all these like terrible hours, 505 00:23:30,125 --> 00:23:33,385 Speaker 1: do something that makes you happy, like dance to a 506 00:23:33,395 --> 00:23:36,725 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift song. Yeah, I read somewhere dancing is actually 507 00:23:36,734 --> 00:23:41,676 Speaker 1: the best way to relieve stress. So let's try that. So, 508 00:23:41,686 --> 00:23:43,806 Speaker 1: a big shout out to the CN A podcast team 509 00:23:43,816 --> 00:23:46,845 Speaker 1: for making this episode happen until next week. Take care 510 00:23:46,855 --> 00:23:51,025 Speaker 1: of yourself and remember it's OK to prioritize your well being. Goodbye. 511 00:23:51,306 --> 00:23:52,455 Speaker 1: Bye bye.