1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,259 Speaker 1: This is a C. N. A. Podcast. 2 00:00:03,140 --> 00:00:07,110 Speaker 1: Can you give us your thoughts on the following topics? 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,060 Speaker 1: In a few words, what would be the first thing 4 00:00:10,060 --> 00:00:12,330 Speaker 1: you'll do after retirement? Take 5 00:00:12,330 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: A break from the corporate lifestyle and take a short 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: holiday to a few countries, maybe like 1-2 months? 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: What's your most expensive splurge? 8 00:00:21,890 --> 00:00:24,290 Speaker 2: Apple Macbook pro that I use it for my video. 9 00:00:24,290 --> 00:00:27,330 Speaker 2: Anything I never regretted this purchase at all despite being 10 00:00:27,330 --> 00:00:30,210 Speaker 2: like close to $2,000 at the time. 11 00:00:30,220 --> 00:00:33,580 Speaker 1: What about a $1 million dollar retirement? It's 12 00:00:33,580 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: definitely doable. 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,870 Speaker 1: When you think of retirement, you picture someone in their 60s, 14 00:00:55,890 --> 00:00:59,220 Speaker 1: they've spent much of their life working and are finally 15 00:00:59,220 --> 00:01:02,610 Speaker 1: throwing off the shackles of work to travel, read and 16 00:01:02,610 --> 00:01:05,910 Speaker 1: spend time with their grandchildren. But a group of young 17 00:01:05,910 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: people is refusing to buy into this idea that retiring 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 1: from work is only done later in life. 19 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,770 Speaker 1: They believe they can achieve the freedom to live a 20 00:01:14,770 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: life of their choosing. As early as the age of 30, 21 00:01:18,430 --> 00:01:21,729 Speaker 1: they're part of a movement that pursues fire which stands 22 00:01:21,730 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: for financial independence retire early. 23 00:01:24,940 --> 00:01:27,900 Speaker 1: My guest today is Christopher Chong who aims to have 24 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:32,949 Speaker 1: $1 million and stop working for other people. By the 25 00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: time he's 35 years old, he's here to tell us 26 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,530 Speaker 1: how he plans to reach his goal as well as 27 00:01:38,530 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: the costs involved. And should we all be envious but Chris. 28 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:43,110 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. 29 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 2: Thank you sarah. 30 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,460 Speaker 1: So for a start some of our listeners may have 31 00:01:47,460 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: heard of the term fire but are not quite clear 32 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,210 Speaker 1: about what it means. So can you explain what it 33 00:01:53,210 --> 00:01:57,500 Speaker 1: is and how should someone choose between the different types 34 00:01:57,500 --> 00:01:58,260 Speaker 1: of fire? 35 00:01:58,740 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: Sure, so fire is actually an acronym, It stands for 36 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,530 Speaker 2: financial Independence, retire early. So ultimately what you want to 37 00:02:06,530 --> 00:02:09,420 Speaker 2: do is that there is actually two parts to this. 38 00:02:09,430 --> 00:02:12,940 Speaker 2: There's the financial independence part and the retire early part. Right. 39 00:02:12,950 --> 00:02:16,130 Speaker 2: So for financial independence, I'm sure many of you have 40 00:02:16,130 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 2: heard about it whether on blocks on forums, 41 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: basically you do have like a sizable capital for you 42 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: to actually use as your retirement funds. Now, this can 43 00:02:25,810 --> 00:02:30,910 Speaker 2: be capital allocated to assets like property, like investments, your 44 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,700 Speaker 2: equities or even crypto. Right, so all these kind of 45 00:02:34,710 --> 00:02:38,330 Speaker 2: things that you actually try to build up these assets 46 00:02:38,340 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 2: towards the earlier part of your working stage of life 47 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,070 Speaker 2: so that you can use this capital as a form 48 00:02:44,070 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: of retirement fund speed cash flow from dividends, 49 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,370 Speaker 2: rental income and all that stuff to properly finance your 50 00:02:50,370 --> 00:02:53,829 Speaker 2: retirement life. And that is the financial independence part not 51 00:02:53,830 --> 00:02:56,130 Speaker 2: being tied to your job because I know that a 52 00:02:56,130 --> 00:02:59,030 Speaker 2: lot of people in current society actually do not really 53 00:02:59,030 --> 00:03:01,470 Speaker 2: like their full time job. So a lot of people 54 00:03:01,470 --> 00:03:04,630 Speaker 2: are trying to find site income side hustle to build 55 00:03:04,630 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: that financial safety net And 56 00:03:07,139 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 2: towards building the financial independence part, the other portion is 57 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,060 Speaker 2: actually the retire early retire early is actually an option. 58 00:03:14,070 --> 00:03:17,590 Speaker 2: You see a lot of people can actually achieve financial independence, 59 00:03:17,590 --> 00:03:20,649 Speaker 2: but they may not want to retire because maybe they 60 00:03:20,650 --> 00:03:24,260 Speaker 2: do really love their jobs. They do find fulfillment, passion 61 00:03:24,260 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 2: and motivation in working in what they're working on 62 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 2: and maybe retiring is not an option for them. 63 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,030 Speaker 2: It depends on how you see, right. Some people deem 64 00:03:33,030 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: that retirement is really doing nothing at all just resting 65 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,150 Speaker 2: on the beach, going on holidays. I'm sitting down with 66 00:03:39,150 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: the coffee shop, drinking coffees with the uncles and aunties. Right? 67 00:03:42,410 --> 00:03:46,580 Speaker 2: So I think retirement is a very different idea for everyone. 68 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:49,300 Speaker 2: I think we can all agree that we have the 69 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:50,050 Speaker 2: option of 70 00:03:50,140 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: doing what we like 71 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,980 Speaker 2: instead of being tied down to a job that we 72 00:03:53,980 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: may not really like and therefore financial independence, retire early 73 00:03:58,450 --> 00:04:01,890 Speaker 2: is kind of like ideal lifestyle for people who may 74 00:04:01,890 --> 00:04:05,700 Speaker 2: want to escape from corporate handcuffs you see because they 75 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:07,610 Speaker 2: are tied down to their jobs and they have so 76 00:04:07,610 --> 00:04:10,470 Speaker 2: much liabilities to pay for and that's why it's an 77 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: idea that 78 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,950 Speaker 2: it's getting increasingly popular. 79 00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:15,660 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess trying to escape the rat race 80 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,450 Speaker 1: that many of us are in, but there are different 81 00:04:18,450 --> 00:04:23,510 Speaker 1: types of fire and I know you've mentioned before that 82 00:04:23,510 --> 00:04:26,740 Speaker 1: you're going for so called barista fire. So can you 83 00:04:26,740 --> 00:04:27,050 Speaker 1: just 84 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,310 Speaker 1: explain this to us what are the different types of 85 00:04:30,310 --> 00:04:31,550 Speaker 1: the so called fire? 86 00:04:31,940 --> 00:04:35,030 Speaker 2: Yes, so it goes from lean to fat, right? So 87 00:04:35,029 --> 00:04:36,779 Speaker 2: it's kind of like the amount of body fat that 88 00:04:36,779 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: you have. So lean being like you live on really 89 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,219 Speaker 2: lean terms, you have really low spending. So maybe you 90 00:04:43,220 --> 00:04:46,589 Speaker 2: spend like 1000 to 2000 per person per month. So 91 00:04:46,589 --> 00:04:49,270 Speaker 2: you don't really need a lot of retirement funds to 92 00:04:49,270 --> 00:04:52,910 Speaker 2: finance your fire lifestyle. So maybe you just need like 93 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: $500,000 worth of portfolio b real estate or investments that 94 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,620 Speaker 2: can give you very good cash flow if you just 95 00:05:00,620 --> 00:05:04,550 Speaker 2: redraw like 4% of your portfolio per year. So barista fire, 96 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people may have heard of 97 00:05:06,450 --> 00:05:09,030 Speaker 2: the term barista as we know barista, maybe they make 98 00:05:09,029 --> 00:05:12,970 Speaker 2: around $2000 per month. It's not like software engineers, investment 99 00:05:12,970 --> 00:05:16,250 Speaker 2: bankers that can make like 12,000 per month. So 100 00:05:16,339 --> 00:05:18,750 Speaker 2: it's kind of like the lifestyle or passion that people 101 00:05:18,750 --> 00:05:19,660 Speaker 2: may want to have. 102 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,390 Speaker 2: These people may really enjoy making coffee and serving customers 103 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,510 Speaker 2: and they may not want to like a normal 9 104 00:05:25,510 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 2: to 5 job. But how do people actually built a 105 00:05:28,850 --> 00:05:32,070 Speaker 2: career around being a very star? So they can't unless 106 00:05:32,070 --> 00:05:35,140 Speaker 2: they have like sizable retirement fund. So once you have 107 00:05:35,140 --> 00:05:39,210 Speaker 2: like a sizable investment portfolio or capital then maybe you 108 00:05:39,210 --> 00:05:41,900 Speaker 2: can go and pursue your other hobbies. Like being a 109 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:44,390 Speaker 2: very star. That's just one of the jobs right? It's 110 00:05:44,390 --> 00:05:47,370 Speaker 2: not necessary. You have to be a very star for myself. 111 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:50,260 Speaker 2: I think youtube is a side hustle that is actually 112 00:05:50,270 --> 00:05:53,150 Speaker 2: quite good for everyone to go and at least try, 113 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 2: I think it's not limited to Youtube itself. Content creation 114 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 2: is becoming increasingly popular, you do see like rise in 115 00:05:59,490 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: platforms like Tiktok instagram reels and a lot of other 116 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: platforms that we have not heard of. 117 00:06:04,940 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: So you're trying to achieve this financial independence to get 118 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,980 Speaker 1: out of your full time job early and pursue other 119 00:06:13,980 --> 00:06:17,930 Speaker 1: passions and other hustles that you want to focus on 120 00:06:17,930 --> 00:06:19,550 Speaker 1: I guess is the, is the goal 121 00:06:19,940 --> 00:06:24,940 Speaker 2: correct? So we always have this dilemma between choosing passion 122 00:06:24,950 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: versus money, right? I think a lot of people in 123 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,300 Speaker 2: their early age, whether they have to chase their passion 124 00:06:30,310 --> 00:06:32,620 Speaker 2: or they want to go for a higher income job, 125 00:06:32,620 --> 00:06:34,659 Speaker 2: but it's something that they may not like. 126 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,589 Speaker 2: So I think it provides option for people to actually 127 00:06:38,589 --> 00:06:40,900 Speaker 2: go and look for so that they don't have to 128 00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: worry about money and yet they are fulfilled chasing their passions. 129 00:06:44,410 --> 00:06:46,659 Speaker 2: So that's the very starfire lifestyle, 130 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,270 Speaker 1: I guess the key to retire early is also being 131 00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:55,050 Speaker 1: frugal in your spending at the moment. And 132 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,299 Speaker 1: some people tend to see this concept of fire and 133 00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:04,860 Speaker 1: early retirement critically because why would you scrimp and save 134 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:07,950 Speaker 1: and be extremely frugal right now and miss out on 135 00:07:07,950 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: some experiences to quit your job early. So what is 136 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,750 Speaker 1: the biggest criticism you face and how do you defend 137 00:07:14,750 --> 00:07:15,660 Speaker 1: those beliefs 138 00:07:15,940 --> 00:07:19,850 Speaker 2: Generally the fire community faced a lot of criticism because 139 00:07:19,860 --> 00:07:21,950 Speaker 2: it is of the normal, right? I mean we have 140 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,060 Speaker 2: all been taught to conform during our educational years, like 141 00:07:25,070 --> 00:07:27,450 Speaker 2: we have to follow this set of rules. Everyone get 142 00:07:27,450 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: to a corporate 9-5 jobs just in the paycheck, save 143 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,210 Speaker 2: a little bit of your income and then spend the 144 00:07:33,210 --> 00:07:36,250 Speaker 2: rest on expenses. And frugal ism is 145 00:07:36,340 --> 00:07:40,100 Speaker 2: Something that's becoming increasingly popular, but not so popular like 146 00:07:40,110 --> 00:07:41,050 Speaker 2: 10 years ago. Right? 147 00:07:41,140 --> 00:07:43,340 Speaker 2: I mean like 10 years ago, if you spend really 148 00:07:43,340 --> 00:07:46,310 Speaker 2: less people will call you a miser cheapskate or that 149 00:07:46,310 --> 00:07:48,750 Speaker 2: kind of stuff I've heard before, you know, So I 150 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:51,820 Speaker 2: think it's an option is not a compulsory thing that 151 00:07:51,830 --> 00:07:55,530 Speaker 2: everyone should go and chase fire because fire is definitely 152 00:07:55,530 --> 00:07:59,010 Speaker 2: not for everyone fundamentally, A lot of fire chases are 153 00:07:59,010 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: really frugal people. So I've seen quite a few in 154 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: my community as well and they do enjoy living the 155 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,750 Speaker 2: frugal lifestyle is not that they are really suffering or 156 00:08:07,750 --> 00:08:10,630 Speaker 2: missing out on any kind of different experiences. I think 157 00:08:10,630 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: it's just personal choices that people make in their lives 158 00:08:13,730 --> 00:08:16,930 Speaker 2: that I don't think it's fair to say that someone 159 00:08:16,930 --> 00:08:19,660 Speaker 2: is really right. Following the frugal is um lifestyle or 160 00:08:19,660 --> 00:08:23,630 Speaker 2: someone is really wrong leading the lavish and luxury lifestyle, right? 161 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 2: It's all personal choices. What do you enjoy living in life? 162 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,850 Speaker 2: Some people really do find joy in living simply and 163 00:08:29,850 --> 00:08:30,550 Speaker 2: cheap and 164 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: minimalist, right? It's not fair to say that the fire 165 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 2: community is definitely wrong or the community is definitely wrong. 166 00:08:37,330 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 2: It's all your personal choice 167 00:08:38,890 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: And your priorities for the moment. I guess Chris but 168 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,260 Speaker 1: how frugal are you? Because I know you mentioned before 169 00:08:44,260 --> 00:08:48,170 Speaker 1: that you save 60% of your income. I personally can't 170 00:08:48,170 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: imagine 171 00:08:49,140 --> 00:08:51,850 Speaker 1: What my life would be like if I saved 60% 172 00:08:51,850 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: of my income. So how about you? 173 00:08:53,940 --> 00:08:56,929 Speaker 2: Yeah. So to be honest, right. I think 60% is 174 00:08:56,929 --> 00:09:01,660 Speaker 2: a range. Sometimes 50% sometimes can go up to 80% 175 00:09:01,660 --> 00:09:05,060 Speaker 2: because my income kind of fluctuates because of YouTube. Right? So, 176 00:09:05,070 --> 00:09:08,449 Speaker 2: I cannot really like pinpoint this is my percentage safe. 177 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:11,300 Speaker 2: But what I can safely say is monthly expenses. I 178 00:09:11,300 --> 00:09:12,660 Speaker 2: try to keep it within 179 00:09:12,740 --> 00:09:15,350 Speaker 2: $1,000 for my personal expense. 180 00:09:15,540 --> 00:09:17,809 Speaker 2: I think that is quite doable. I even detailed it 181 00:09:17,820 --> 00:09:20,969 Speaker 2: out in a video showing what our expenses that I 182 00:09:20,970 --> 00:09:24,450 Speaker 2: spend on a personal level. So I would say that 183 00:09:24,460 --> 00:09:26,890 Speaker 2: if you are able to save at least 30% of 184 00:09:26,890 --> 00:09:29,740 Speaker 2: your income is quite commendable already because a lot of 185 00:09:29,740 --> 00:09:30,750 Speaker 2: people that I know 186 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: Actually do not even save their money, they get their paychecks. 187 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,620 Speaker 2: And then the next day they just spend it all right, 188 00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:41,050 Speaker 2: go off their friends having nice dinners. They really enjoy spending. 189 00:09:41,050 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: So we can't really criticize them because it is really 190 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,510 Speaker 2: their personal choice. I would say that 1000 for myself 191 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 2: is pretty comfortable. I am not really missing out on 192 00:09:50,690 --> 00:09:54,030 Speaker 2: any experiences. I feel that people always make do with 193 00:09:54,030 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: their budget. If you give a student of $500 budget 194 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,670 Speaker 2: to spend definitely. He will be able to see what 195 00:10:00,670 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 2: the $500 can do for him and even have some 196 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,290 Speaker 2: savings that. So I believe for every student you have 197 00:10:06,290 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 2: experienced this kind of thing, right? Some of you won't 198 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,590 Speaker 2: really spend the entire $500 of ours even by your parents. 199 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,709 Speaker 1: So what are the things that you save on and 200 00:10:15,710 --> 00:10:19,050 Speaker 1: spend on in that $1,000 budget a month? 201 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,620 Speaker 2: Right. So we talk about fixed expenses and variable expenses. 202 00:10:23,630 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 2: So fixed expenses are like your bills, right? Your utilities, 203 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,550 Speaker 2: your rental things that you cannot see 204 00:10:29,630 --> 00:10:31,660 Speaker 1: The 1000 includes your rent as well. 205 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,260 Speaker 2: I'm still seeing my parents, but part of it I'm 206 00:10:34,260 --> 00:10:38,100 Speaker 2: still giving it as parental allowance. So that's part of it. 207 00:10:38,110 --> 00:10:41,540 Speaker 2: There's no expenses. I think if we're talking about food 208 00:10:41,540 --> 00:10:45,530 Speaker 2: expenses mostly I eat in hawker centers and copy TMS 209 00:10:45,530 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 2: and occasionally food courts and casual restaurants. 210 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: So those spending won't go above $300 a month. 211 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: I also try to do intermittent fasting. That's why I 212 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,350 Speaker 2: only do two meals a day and I try to 213 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,849 Speaker 2: eat at home as much as possible when my family 214 00:10:59,850 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: to cook dinners. Right? So that's another bit of money safe. 215 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,450 Speaker 1: Many would agree that we have to be mindful of 216 00:11:07,450 --> 00:11:11,490 Speaker 1: our spending, but to cut back on most expenses to 217 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:13,150 Speaker 1: live an ultra minimalist life, 218 00:11:13,540 --> 00:11:17,329 Speaker 1: some might think that you're not giving yourself space to 219 00:11:17,340 --> 00:11:20,710 Speaker 1: enjoy life. And you mentioned that you don't feel like 220 00:11:20,710 --> 00:11:25,450 Speaker 1: you're missing out on experiences, but has this fire movement 221 00:11:25,450 --> 00:11:27,550 Speaker 1: come at a social cost for you? 222 00:11:27,940 --> 00:11:31,190 Speaker 2: Okay, so it's definitely a zero sum game? I can 223 00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:34,270 Speaker 2: agree on that because if you spend less on something 224 00:11:34,270 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: definitely you'll miss out on something. And that is quite evident, right? 225 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: Because most of the people in the fire community, from 226 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,569 Speaker 2: what I see actually introverts, people that really enjoys their 227 00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:47,260 Speaker 2: alone time myself included, 228 00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:50,510 Speaker 2: I do have the perception that extroverts because they are 229 00:11:50,510 --> 00:11:53,490 Speaker 2: more outgoing, more social. They need to go to the 230 00:11:53,490 --> 00:11:56,450 Speaker 2: social networks and communicate with other people and they spend 231 00:11:56,450 --> 00:11:59,650 Speaker 2: more time outside, then they ultimately have to spend more money. 232 00:11:59,660 --> 00:12:03,210 Speaker 2: So it's a kind of certain demographic that really suits 233 00:12:03,210 --> 00:12:06,780 Speaker 2: the fire community. It's very difficult to tell an extrovert 234 00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 2: to really 235 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,309 Speaker 2: go and start the fire movement, you see, because he 236 00:12:10,309 --> 00:12:13,630 Speaker 2: tries on energy on being around people and being around 237 00:12:13,630 --> 00:12:16,590 Speaker 2: people outside, you need to spend money, right? You need 238 00:12:16,590 --> 00:12:19,300 Speaker 2: to go for full you need to go for cafes, 239 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,540 Speaker 2: go for network sessions, exercising even cost money. I would 240 00:12:23,540 --> 00:12:26,860 Speaker 2: say that extroverts is more difficult for them and for 241 00:12:26,860 --> 00:12:30,020 Speaker 2: introverts is slightly easier, but not to say that extroverts 242 00:12:30,020 --> 00:12:32,770 Speaker 2: cannot take on the fire movement because it's all matter 243 00:12:32,770 --> 00:12:35,990 Speaker 2: of lifestyle, right? How much do you allocate? Maybe you 244 00:12:35,990 --> 00:12:39,710 Speaker 2: can allocate the budget for fun activities just maybe 1 245 00:12:39,710 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: to $200 per month. I think you can do a 246 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,180 Speaker 2: lot of things. Right? You don't have to do like 247 00:12:44,190 --> 00:12:47,510 Speaker 2: really expensive stuff. You can go to the national parks 248 00:12:47,510 --> 00:12:50,490 Speaker 2: of Singapore and go with your friends, right? Go do 249 00:12:50,490 --> 00:12:53,650 Speaker 2: some cycling activities. All these are really low cost activities 250 00:12:53,650 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 2: that you can start to look at alternatives. 251 00:12:56,140 --> 00:12:58,810 Speaker 2: You don't have to go to the cafe every weekend. 252 00:12:58,809 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 2: You can try out other different kinds of activities that 253 00:13:01,610 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: maybe our lower cost or maybe you can consider traveling 254 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: into lower cost of living countries like Malaysia like Indonesia 255 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: Thailand instead of always going to europe countries. So there's 256 00:13:12,929 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 2: always a choice and alternatives for everything. 257 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 2: It's all up to whether you yourself and your community, 258 00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: your network of friends can accept it. If your friends 259 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,980 Speaker 2: always encourage you to spend, always encourage you to go 260 00:13:24,980 --> 00:13:28,650 Speaker 2: to high class places that you feel uncomfortable paying for, 261 00:13:28,660 --> 00:13:31,020 Speaker 2: then maybe it's time to at least some of that. 262 00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:34,020 Speaker 2: Maybe you're not so comfortable and not conform to the 263 00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:36,610 Speaker 2: social norm that I'm feeling pure pressured to go to 264 00:13:36,610 --> 00:13:40,660 Speaker 2: these places. Otherwise my friends will dessert me. You see. 265 00:13:40,740 --> 00:13:44,210 Speaker 1: Is this something that you felt like this peer pressure 266 00:13:44,210 --> 00:13:46,949 Speaker 1: to keep up with the spending 267 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: And at what point did you feel like you wanted 268 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,660 Speaker 1: to pursue this fire kind of lifestyle. 269 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,990 Speaker 2: I didn't really experience that because I always believe that 270 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,850 Speaker 2: your fight attracts your tribe. So it's kind of tongue 271 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:07,050 Speaker 2: in cheek moment because you yourself actually live quite simply 272 00:14:07,059 --> 00:14:08,949 Speaker 2: you tend to attract people that are of the same 273 00:14:08,950 --> 00:14:12,229 Speaker 2: kind of interest because those people who spend much more 274 00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:12,859 Speaker 2: than you 275 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: probably won't associate you as a friend 276 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,110 Speaker 2: to them, You're such a party bomber right there, telling 277 00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: you to go to parties, go to nightclubs and then 278 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,330 Speaker 2: here you are saying, I want to save money on 279 00:14:23,330 --> 00:14:25,370 Speaker 2: a saturday night, I don't want to go out drinking 280 00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:28,590 Speaker 2: because I want to pursue my fire movement. So it 281 00:14:28,590 --> 00:14:32,090 Speaker 2: makes a very distinct contrast that there are people who 282 00:14:32,090 --> 00:14:32,550 Speaker 2: would 283 00:14:32,740 --> 00:14:34,890 Speaker 2: really love to stay at home, really love to do 284 00:14:34,890 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 2: low cost activities. And then there are people who really 285 00:14:37,290 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: love to pursue this kind of other activities that needs 286 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,470 Speaker 2: more money. So for myself, fortunately I have not faced 287 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,450 Speaker 2: kind of discrimination yet within my social circle 288 00:14:46,940 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: we're going for a short break, we'll be right back. 289 00:14:49,740 --> 00:14:54,250 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Stephen share and I host the new season 290 00:14:54,250 --> 00:14:57,350 Speaker 1: of our podcast heart of the matter, join me in 291 00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:59,700 Speaker 1: getting right to the heart of the headlines as we 292 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:03,060 Speaker 1: speak with experts and newsmakers to delve deep into the 293 00:15:03,060 --> 00:15:06,890 Speaker 1: most talked about news developments, look out for our episodes 294 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:09,660 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. 295 00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:14,810 Speaker 1: So chris at what point did you decide to pursue 296 00:15:14,810 --> 00:15:16,460 Speaker 1: this fire lifestyle? 297 00:15:17,140 --> 00:15:20,430 Speaker 2: I think there isn't really a defining moment because I've 298 00:15:20,430 --> 00:15:23,950 Speaker 2: been living frugally since my teenage days, but if I 299 00:15:23,950 --> 00:15:24,850 Speaker 2: were to put like 300 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,170 Speaker 2: a starting point where I started the fire movement actually 301 00:15:28,170 --> 00:15:30,890 Speaker 2: started way before it's called the fire movement and that's 302 00:15:30,890 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 2: when I started teaching tuition because that's when I started 303 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: to track how much am I learning from tuition at 304 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,740 Speaker 2: that time, I think I was still a student undergrad 305 00:15:38,740 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: student and 306 00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:43,830 Speaker 2: when other people are going abroad for the overseas exchange, 307 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,470 Speaker 2: which I kind of regret because now that I learned 308 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,610 Speaker 2: always this exchange can actually be a priceless experience, but 309 00:15:49,620 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: during the time I was young, so I was focused 310 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,810 Speaker 2: on saving money, making more money. So I was always 311 00:15:54,810 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: looking for the next to shin excitement, how many more 312 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,830 Speaker 2: students can I bring in and I started tracking my 313 00:15:59,830 --> 00:16:02,860 Speaker 2: income and therefore started tracking my expense during that time. 314 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: What were some of the influences in your life that 315 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,090 Speaker 1: pointed you towards this direction? Because as you said, this 316 00:16:09,090 --> 00:16:13,100 Speaker 1: is not common. Usually people in that age bracket are 317 00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:16,050 Speaker 1: looking to find what they can spend on with the 318 00:16:16,050 --> 00:16:20,060 Speaker 1: latest gadget, new brands that they can purchase 319 00:16:20,070 --> 00:16:21,860 Speaker 2: a lot of influences 320 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: on our growing up years actually come from our family 321 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: backgrounds and specifically parents. So my parents came from a 322 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,100 Speaker 2: low to middle kind of background where we always live 323 00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:34,590 Speaker 2: on bursaries, school assistance funds, all this kind of thing. 324 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,700 Speaker 2: So I always grew up in this kind of environment 325 00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:38,500 Speaker 2: where people are paying full price and then I'm paying 326 00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:39,060 Speaker 2: like a 327 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,380 Speaker 2: partial price or something like that. So I always knew 328 00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:42,570 Speaker 2: the importance of money 329 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,330 Speaker 2: or more so the lack of it because when I 330 00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:48,140 Speaker 2: see my classmates actually going out and we go on 331 00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:51,100 Speaker 2: school excursions, right, they always have to buy something and 332 00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:53,810 Speaker 2: I'm always a kid that I'm saving money, maybe I'll 333 00:16:53,810 --> 00:16:56,790 Speaker 2: go for the lower cost option. So it was always 334 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: this kind of thing. I think it became a habit 335 00:16:58,890 --> 00:17:01,030 Speaker 2: after a few years of growing up and it just 336 00:17:01,030 --> 00:17:02,260 Speaker 2: became natural to me, 337 00:17:02,340 --> 00:17:04,850 Speaker 2: it's not like I need to force myself to save 338 00:17:04,859 --> 00:17:07,270 Speaker 2: because I was brought up in this kind of background. 339 00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:09,790 Speaker 2: You know, money is really important because if we don't 340 00:17:09,790 --> 00:17:11,909 Speaker 2: have money then maybe I may not progress to the 341 00:17:11,910 --> 00:17:14,820 Speaker 2: next level of education, I may not have the money 342 00:17:14,820 --> 00:17:18,180 Speaker 2: to go to university, go to junior college and further 343 00:17:18,180 --> 00:17:21,369 Speaker 2: my education. So I always believe in this kind of 344 00:17:21,380 --> 00:17:23,929 Speaker 2: importance since I was young. So maybe that was the 345 00:17:23,930 --> 00:17:24,860 Speaker 2: background of it. 346 00:17:24,940 --> 00:17:27,949 Speaker 2: Slowly as I grew older, then I realized that money 347 00:17:27,950 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 2: is actually not everything despite you saving money. I think 348 00:17:31,369 --> 00:17:34,820 Speaker 2: it's very important to have experiences as well. So, as 349 00:17:34,820 --> 00:17:37,070 Speaker 2: I grew older, I tend to actually go out with 350 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:38,170 Speaker 2: friends more because 351 00:17:38,540 --> 00:17:41,420 Speaker 2: the experiences that you can get is only during this 352 00:17:41,420 --> 00:17:44,190 Speaker 2: time when you are in your teenage years. So I'm 353 00:17:44,190 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 2: kind of the opposite of people, right? When they are 354 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,530 Speaker 2: growing old, then they start to save money. I'm the 355 00:17:48,530 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 2: kind of when I'm young I'm saving money. And then 356 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,710 Speaker 2: as I started growing older, then I start to spend 357 00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:56,109 Speaker 2: on experiences. So that is maybe something that people can 358 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,670 Speaker 2: think of instead of spending on material goods. 359 00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:02,770 Speaker 2: Maybe spend more on experiences because your experiences will actually 360 00:18:02,770 --> 00:18:05,129 Speaker 2: last a lifetime if it was a really good memory 361 00:18:05,130 --> 00:18:08,290 Speaker 2: you see, but your material goods will all fit and 362 00:18:08,290 --> 00:18:11,850 Speaker 2: depreciate the way and it may just be collecting dust 363 00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: in your store room. So I'm always an advocate of 364 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:15,770 Speaker 2: spending on experiences. 365 00:18:16,140 --> 00:18:19,290 Speaker 1: Another criticism of fire is that it's for those who 366 00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:22,510 Speaker 1: earn a lot like those who are on the lower 367 00:18:22,510 --> 00:18:25,350 Speaker 1: end of the pay range for example cannot afford to 368 00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: save that much because say they have to pay for 369 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: their rent and other expenses, maybe childcare or elderly care. 370 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,429 Speaker 1: So do you think this is the case that it 371 00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:33,690 Speaker 1: is 372 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: for those with a sizable 373 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,630 Speaker 1: salary? 374 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,540 Speaker 2: Okay. I wouldn't say it's for a sizable salary, but 375 00:18:40,550 --> 00:18:43,950 Speaker 2: I would say you need a minimum salary to be 376 00:18:43,950 --> 00:18:46,899 Speaker 2: able to cover at least your basic expenses. Right? And 377 00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:49,730 Speaker 2: like I said, my basic expenses on a personal level 378 00:18:49,730 --> 00:18:53,180 Speaker 2: is already $1,000. So if you are not earning more 379 00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:56,270 Speaker 2: than $1,000 or even $2,000, 380 00:18:56,340 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 2: then I think it's really quite difficult on the financial 381 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:04,460 Speaker 2: management part, definitely it requires at least $5000 to start 382 00:19:04,460 --> 00:19:08,790 Speaker 2: talking about financial planning and management because without this 1000 383 00:19:08,790 --> 00:19:12,030 Speaker 2: to $2000 of personal expense that you can spend. I 384 00:19:12,030 --> 00:19:15,020 Speaker 2: don't think anyone would have the time or effort to 385 00:19:15,020 --> 00:19:17,730 Speaker 2: really look at what is wrong and all that stuff 386 00:19:17,730 --> 00:19:19,260 Speaker 2: that they need to allocate their budget. 387 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,050 Speaker 2: I think for this group of people, their primary focus 388 00:19:22,060 --> 00:19:25,139 Speaker 2: is really to grow their income or to really learn 389 00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:27,190 Speaker 2: new skills so that they can find a better paying 390 00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:31,470 Speaker 2: job rather than looking at fire because fire, ideally, like 391 00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, you do need a sizable capital and 392 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,550 Speaker 2: not everybody have the sizable capital at the start. So 393 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,650 Speaker 2: I think for this group of people that are of 394 00:19:40,660 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: the lower income, the priority is not on fire. It's 395 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 2: definitely to find a new job or a better job 396 00:19:47,170 --> 00:19:50,050 Speaker 2: or to learn new skills to see which industry or 397 00:19:50,050 --> 00:19:52,109 Speaker 2: which company is able to pay you the most for 398 00:19:52,109 --> 00:19:54,230 Speaker 2: your time. So I would say, I partially agree with 399 00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:56,940 Speaker 2: that statement. You do need a little bit of higher 400 00:19:56,940 --> 00:19:58,950 Speaker 2: income compared to the rest 401 00:19:59,340 --> 00:20:03,700 Speaker 1: income is one thing, saving is another, the other factor 402 00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:06,690 Speaker 1: and fire is investments because I know you gave up 403 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: giving tuition as a means to increase your income and 404 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,260 Speaker 1: instead you devoted more time in investing. What are some 405 00:20:13,260 --> 00:20:16,460 Speaker 1: of the key principles in investing that you can share? 406 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,350 Speaker 2: Right, let's cover beyond the tuition part. Right? So I 407 00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 2: started tuition as an undergrad student. The reason why did 408 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,810 Speaker 2: tuition is because it pays the most hourly if you 409 00:20:25,810 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 2: are teaching like a secondary school level, you can expect 410 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,389 Speaker 2: like 30 $40 per hour. That was during my time 411 00:20:31,390 --> 00:20:34,430 Speaker 2: like 10 years ago. So I think it has increased 412 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,369 Speaker 2: by the bit now due to inflation. So I think 413 00:20:37,369 --> 00:20:40,659 Speaker 2: it's more of optimizing my time to spend my limited 414 00:20:40,660 --> 00:20:43,700 Speaker 2: amount of time on activities that generate the highest percentage 415 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,380 Speaker 2: of return. So that's how I see it. And I 416 00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:49,350 Speaker 2: carried on this kind of mindset to investments because I 417 00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:51,300 Speaker 2: don't think we have the strength and the time to 418 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 2: work forever. You see Youtube, even though I really love 419 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 2: it cannot be like when I'm 50 I'm still, they're 420 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,970 Speaker 2: telling people to click the like and subscribe button may 421 00:21:00,970 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: not have the same level of energy, you know. 422 00:21:03,530 --> 00:21:05,020 Speaker 1: Yeah. 423 00:21:05,030 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: So investing is something that a lot of people should 424 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,190 Speaker 2: really look at because it's not really active income is 425 00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:14,609 Speaker 2: passive income. Even if you are investing in growth stocks 426 00:21:14,619 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 2: that do not pay dividends because you're putting your faith 427 00:21:17,369 --> 00:21:19,850 Speaker 2: in the company that can generate far better returns that 428 00:21:19,859 --> 00:21:21,270 Speaker 2: you can do on yourself. 429 00:21:21,340 --> 00:21:25,670 Speaker 2: And because these companies have leaders or ideas or businesses 430 00:21:25,670 --> 00:21:28,629 Speaker 2: that you believe in that are profitable in the long run, 431 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,429 Speaker 2: that's why you put your money with them because your 432 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,190 Speaker 2: activity and energy and time may not be the same 433 00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:36,490 Speaker 2: level across the years, but if you have the same 434 00:21:36,490 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 2: high level of conviction in these companies that can generate 435 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,770 Speaker 2: positive returns over a long term, 436 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:41,859 Speaker 2: then at least 437 00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:44,060 Speaker 2: during your old age, then you can be sure that 438 00:21:44,060 --> 00:21:47,050 Speaker 2: these companies will pay you back in terms of capital 439 00:21:47,050 --> 00:21:51,410 Speaker 2: gains or dividends. So that's my approach towards investing. It's 440 00:21:51,410 --> 00:21:54,220 Speaker 2: more of like outsourcing to someone else because I know 441 00:21:54,220 --> 00:21:56,290 Speaker 2: that I will not have the time and energy to 442 00:21:56,290 --> 00:21:57,450 Speaker 2: do that when I'm old. 443 00:21:57,940 --> 00:22:02,980 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you do need some form of understanding and 444 00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: knowledge when it comes to investing before you start putting 445 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: in your money, especially your hard earned money and all 446 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: these financial and economic terms and theories. They can get complicated. 447 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:15,270 Speaker 1: So how do you think 448 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: a young person should start investing without being so overwhelmed? 449 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,060 Speaker 2: Right. So there are actually a lot of investment instruments 450 00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 2: and increasing popular classes called the exchange traded funds. The 451 00:22:26,410 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 2: CTF basically what these E. T. S. Means is that 452 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,389 Speaker 2: they take a basket of certain stocks that fit the criteria. 453 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,070 Speaker 2: For example, for S. And P. 500. We do have 454 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,740 Speaker 2: this sticker called V. O. Or C. S. P. X. 455 00:22:38,740 --> 00:22:40,050 Speaker 2: In the London stock exchange 456 00:22:40,140 --> 00:22:42,270 Speaker 2: basically tracks the U. S. Largest 457 00:22:42,340 --> 00:22:46,649 Speaker 2: 500 companies by market cap is primarily already filtering up 458 00:22:46,650 --> 00:22:49,609 Speaker 2: the 500 strongest companies in the US. If you believe 459 00:22:49,609 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: in the U. S. Economy to go stronger in the 460 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: long term, then you can invest in this kind of E. T. F. 461 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,390 Speaker 2: because it's not investing in just one single company is 462 00:22:58,390 --> 00:23:01,660 Speaker 2: investing in 500 companies such as one fails or one 463 00:23:01,660 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 2: does not make the mark, 464 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,310 Speaker 2: another one will replace it. So you don't really have 465 00:23:05,310 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: to go and seek out the criteria yourself, but ultimately, 466 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 2: you must know what kind of E T F. You're 467 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,510 Speaker 2: buying into, what kind of fee structure are they charging you, 468 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,060 Speaker 2: because ultimately fees are also eating into your returns, right? 469 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,430 Speaker 2: And even if you're not familiar with E T F, 470 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,690 Speaker 2: I think there are a lot of robo advisor platforms 471 00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:25,740 Speaker 2: in Singapore right now, that's actually helping you determine what 472 00:23:25,740 --> 00:23:28,850 Speaker 2: kind of investment suits you. So once you have inputted 473 00:23:28,850 --> 00:23:31,940 Speaker 2: the risk level and expected returns that you are able 474 00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:35,090 Speaker 2: to stomach, then they can customize the kind of portfolio 475 00:23:35,090 --> 00:23:37,540 Speaker 2: that is suitable for your risk appetite. So I think 476 00:23:37,540 --> 00:23:40,300 Speaker 2: that is getting increasingly popular as well. People who do 477 00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 2: not have 478 00:23:41,140 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 2: any kind of investment knowledge and they just want to 479 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: dip their toes start out small, then maybe they can 480 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,090 Speaker 2: consider robo advisors as well to 481 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:51,870 Speaker 1: E T F. Robo advisors. But I know for U 482 00:23:51,869 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: C p F as well as a big part of 483 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: your roadmap to early retirement and I find it interesting 484 00:23:57,730 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: because 485 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,770 Speaker 1: 4% is the most you can get from CPF when 486 00:24:02,770 --> 00:24:05,170 Speaker 1: it comes to returns, when you look at the stock 487 00:24:05,170 --> 00:24:07,379 Speaker 1: market or E T. F. S like you mentioned, you 488 00:24:07,380 --> 00:24:10,180 Speaker 1: can get a lot more. So why is CPF so 489 00:24:10,190 --> 00:24:11,050 Speaker 1: critical for you? 490 00:24:11,140 --> 00:24:14,790 Speaker 2: Okay, so let's talk about CPF, right, CPF, I think 491 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,700 Speaker 2: it's ingrained in a lot of Singaporeans and prs hearts 492 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 2: because we are taking away 20% of our monthly income 493 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,470 Speaker 2: away and now I'm going against the norm, I'm putting 494 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,220 Speaker 2: even more money into the CPF compared to the 20%. 495 00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 2: So fundamentally, I felt that 496 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,350 Speaker 2: I was actually 497 00:24:31,540 --> 00:24:35,290 Speaker 2: building retirement funds at an early age compared to others. Right? 498 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:37,810 Speaker 2: Firstly it's for the tax relief, you do enjoy a 499 00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 2: lot of tax relief if you top up your special 500 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,660 Speaker 2: account or you do the voluntary contribution to the medicine account. 501 00:24:43,670 --> 00:24:46,780 Speaker 2: So I started out from that direction, right, Because I 502 00:24:46,780 --> 00:24:48,850 Speaker 2: wanted to save a little bit on texas 503 00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:51,310 Speaker 2: at that time, I was not so well versed of 504 00:24:51,310 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: all the CPF terms, 505 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,530 Speaker 2: But slowly I've grown to learn that maybe it's all 506 00:24:55,530 --> 00:24:58,790 Speaker 2: about building a financial safety net because I don't have 507 00:24:58,790 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 2: to like go on all fronts that I want to invest, 508 00:25:01,930 --> 00:25:05,620 Speaker 2: growing 20% returns a year, maybe a portion of it. 509 00:25:05,619 --> 00:25:09,100 Speaker 2: I can put it in a safer asset allocation and 510 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,910 Speaker 2: one of it is CPF that is still using 4% 511 00:25:11,910 --> 00:25:14,730 Speaker 2: on your special account. I'm not the kind that goes 512 00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:18,170 Speaker 2: all in my funds into a single asset class because 513 00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:22,590 Speaker 2: In times like this in a bear market environment, especially 2022. 514 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,770 Speaker 2: Then we start seeing people having unrealized losses on their 515 00:25:25,770 --> 00:25:28,990 Speaker 2: portfolio and having this financial safety that is really important 516 00:25:28,990 --> 00:25:31,930 Speaker 2: because at least you know that you have a sizable 517 00:25:31,930 --> 00:25:34,580 Speaker 2: amount of funds in your retirement that you don't have 518 00:25:34,580 --> 00:25:36,810 Speaker 2: to liquidate and you know that these funds will still 519 00:25:36,810 --> 00:25:38,060 Speaker 2: be there for you even if 520 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,300 Speaker 2: all your investment portfolio feels that's my thinking and approach 521 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 2: that has changed over the years. It's grown from just 522 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: a tax relief kind of instrument to more like a 523 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,030 Speaker 2: financial safety net. And that's why I always encourage people 524 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,580 Speaker 2: to really look into CPF, whether you top it up 525 00:25:54,590 --> 00:25:57,430 Speaker 2: or not, just learn about what the CPF really is 526 00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: and how it can help you on your financial planning journey. 527 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:00,650 Speaker 1: Yeah. 528 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,900 Speaker 1: For you to go this far from that background is 529 00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: very remarkable and it's very inspiring for sure. What do 530 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,060 Speaker 1: your parents think of where you are now? 531 00:26:10,940 --> 00:26:14,900 Speaker 2: I come from a very conservative asian family where we 532 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:18,659 Speaker 2: don't really like to talk about money because it's awkward 533 00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:21,460 Speaker 2: for chinese asian family to really talk about how much 534 00:26:21,460 --> 00:26:23,890 Speaker 2: money do we have, how much money do you earn 535 00:26:23,890 --> 00:26:26,460 Speaker 2: or how much money do you save? Unless it's during 536 00:26:26,460 --> 00:26:29,490 Speaker 2: chinese new year gatherings then your nosy relatives may start 537 00:26:29,490 --> 00:26:30,050 Speaker 2: to ask 538 00:26:30,140 --> 00:26:31,270 Speaker 2: how much are you earning 539 00:26:31,340 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 2: is you making you reach this kind of thing? They're 540 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 2: more of the kind that are more reserved. You see 541 00:26:36,010 --> 00:26:38,100 Speaker 2: as long as you're doing good, you're doing well, you 542 00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 2: don't need parents support, you don't get into trouble? I 543 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,350 Speaker 2: think that's good enough. But regarding my fire movement, I 544 00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:47,409 Speaker 2: have not really like expressed to them the idea because 545 00:26:47,420 --> 00:26:50,380 Speaker 2: it's difficult to explain to them in their generation, right 546 00:26:50,380 --> 00:26:51,950 Speaker 2: there generation is all about 547 00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:56,389 Speaker 2: saving, saving, saving until retirement, then leave off your retirement funds. 548 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,650 Speaker 2: It's very difficult to explain to them investing maybe it's 549 00:27:00,660 --> 00:27:03,190 Speaker 2: easier now, but in the past it's definitely not easy 550 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 2: because they have been through like so many financial crisis 551 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,060 Speaker 2: like the asian financial crisis, the global recession into it. 552 00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: I see, 553 00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: and why are you doing all this? What's the dream 554 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: future and the end goal? Because you've mentioned before that 555 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,580 Speaker 1: you want to travel, live in different countries, be a 556 00:27:21,580 --> 00:27:25,890 Speaker 1: digital nomad. How about, say, having a family having kids? 557 00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 2: So the current plan with my partner is that we 558 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,980 Speaker 2: are not intending to have kids at the moment, but 559 00:27:31,980 --> 00:27:34,350 Speaker 2: in the future we may decide to have one and 560 00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 2: before we even come to this discussion, right, it's always 561 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,950 Speaker 2: about lifestyle priorities 562 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,580 Speaker 2: because if you're going for a digital nomad lifestyle, you'll 563 00:27:42,580 --> 00:27:44,939 Speaker 2: be traveling here and there and you don't have a 564 00:27:44,940 --> 00:27:48,050 Speaker 2: place to settle down and build a family. I've watched 565 00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 2: other content creators online sharing the digital nomad lifestyle as well, 566 00:27:52,730 --> 00:27:55,370 Speaker 2: Most of them do not have any kids yet at 567 00:27:55,369 --> 00:27:58,340 Speaker 2: this point, it's all about planning for yourself instead of 568 00:27:58,350 --> 00:27:59,050 Speaker 2: your family 569 00:27:59,140 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 2: because fire is ultimately a very difficult lifestyle and difficult 570 00:28:03,810 --> 00:28:06,690 Speaker 2: option for anyone to choose. And I think having kids 571 00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 2: will really hinder the fire lifestyle, are 572 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,490 Speaker 1: you waiting until retirement before 573 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:15,030 Speaker 2: it's a trade off, right. Either you have kids that 574 00:28:15,030 --> 00:28:17,460 Speaker 2: you will hinder your fire lifestyle or you do not 575 00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:20,050 Speaker 2: have kids, then you can go on the ideal life. 576 00:28:20,140 --> 00:28:20,770 Speaker 2: So 577 00:28:20,940 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 2: as of the moment, I'm more of the site where 578 00:28:23,570 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 2: I want to try more experiences in this world. So 579 00:28:26,690 --> 00:28:28,090 Speaker 2: I do not rule out the fact that I may 580 00:28:28,090 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 2: have a kid in the future, but as of now, 581 00:28:30,530 --> 00:28:31,629 Speaker 2: I'm comfortable where I am 582 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,850 Speaker 1: Right, I guess the bottom line Chris is that retiring 583 00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:38,330 Speaker 1: at 35 years old is possible, but it may not 584 00:28:38,330 --> 00:28:42,380 Speaker 1: be for everyone, but the principles of keeping spending in 585 00:28:42,380 --> 00:28:43,050 Speaker 1: check and 586 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,780 Speaker 1: planning for retirement, that applies to all of us. Thanks 587 00:28:46,780 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: so much for sharing your story, your insights with us today, 588 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:51,410 Speaker 1: chris thank 589 00:28:51,410 --> 00:28:52,170 Speaker 2: you Sarah. 590 00:28:54,940 --> 00:28:57,580 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed this episode of money, talks to 591 00:28:57,580 --> 00:28:59,940 Speaker 1: be T. O. Or not to be T. O. In 592 00:28:59,940 --> 00:29:03,100 Speaker 1: next week's episode. The best brain in the property business 593 00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:05,430 Speaker 1: tells us everything there is to know about owning a 594 00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:09,190 Speaker 1: home in Singapore. The team behind this podcast is Jacqueline 595 00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:12,550 Speaker 1: chan Audrey one daniel lee and Christina robert 596 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,420 Speaker 1: and you've got a refreshed slate of audio material you 597 00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: can listen to on your commute or your workout? 598 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,470 Speaker 1: Go to the C. N. A. Website or app. Look 599 00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:23,430 Speaker 1: for the listen button and subscribe to the podcast. See 600 00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: like if you have thoughts, ideas or even stories you'd 601 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: like to share. Please write to us. The details are 602 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,630 Speaker 1: in our episode notes. Until next time. This is Sarah 603 00:29:31,630 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: called E.