1 00:00:03,039 --> 00:00:05,380 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:08,380 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: I'm actually very open to doing more internships because I 3 00:00:10,930 --> 00:00:14,119 Speaker 1: intentionally scheduled my classes to just take up less than 4 00:00:14,130 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: half of my week so that I can still spare 5 00:00:16,010 --> 00:00:19,059 Speaker 1: some time to look for another internship role to fill out. 6 00:00:19,069 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: What time before I graduate? 7 00:00:21,370 --> 00:00:24,420 Speaker 2: What is this crazy thing about trying to do as 8 00:00:24,430 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 2: many internships as possible 9 00:00:25,770 --> 00:00:28,059 Speaker 2: if you guys are applying for the same jobs with 10 00:00:28,069 --> 00:00:30,450 Speaker 2: the same GPA studying the same thing who's going to 11 00:00:30,459 --> 00:00:32,470 Speaker 2: get the upper cut. It's definitely gonna be someone with 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,180 Speaker 2: like 4 to 5 internships for me listening to. This 13 00:00:35,189 --> 00:00:37,610 Speaker 2: is a little bit worrying if it's motivated by a 14 00:00:37,619 --> 00:00:40,299 Speaker 2: sense of fear or anxiousness that I'm not good enough. 15 00:00:40,310 --> 00:00:42,979 Speaker 2: I don't have enough. It's not quite healthy in a way. 16 00:00:44,759 --> 00:00:47,528 Speaker 2: Hi there. It's us again, Tiffany and Gerald on the 17 00:00:47,540 --> 00:00:50,860 Speaker 2: work it podcast. Thanks for making this podcast part of 18 00:00:50,869 --> 00:00:53,458 Speaker 2: your day. Even your work week. We hope you found 19 00:00:53,470 --> 00:00:56,500 Speaker 2: our topics useful so far. And a quick reminder that 20 00:00:56,509 --> 00:00:58,380 Speaker 2: you will want to stay to the end of the 21 00:00:58,389 --> 00:01:01,299 Speaker 2: podcast because there's an A ma section where I answer 22 00:01:01,310 --> 00:01:04,739 Speaker 2: a work related question that you have sent to us. So, Tiffany, 23 00:01:04,750 --> 00:01:05,900 Speaker 2: what question do you have 24 00:01:06,010 --> 00:01:08,190 Speaker 2: for me today? Our A ma question was sent in 25 00:01:08,199 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: by Gary. I'm not sure. Maybe some listeners might remember 26 00:01:11,010 --> 00:01:13,860 Speaker 2: him because he sent us a question before. And then 27 00:01:13,870 --> 00:01:18,870 Speaker 2: he had another question about potential employers with drawing indicative 28 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:22,509 Speaker 2: job offers to shortlisted candidates. So there's nothing much he 29 00:01:22,519 --> 00:01:25,779 Speaker 2: can do about that, but he is disappointed and wonders 30 00:01:25,790 --> 00:01:27,150 Speaker 2: what he could have done better. 31 00:01:27,459 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 2: So we get into his situation a bit more later 32 00:01:30,050 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: because I'm sure many people have felt the same going 33 00:01:33,010 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: through what he went through. So Tiffany, both of us 34 00:01:35,489 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: have been in the workforce for nearly 20 years. It 35 00:01:38,190 --> 00:01:40,349 Speaker 2: pains my heart to say that. Ok, because I still 36 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 2: like to think I'm young but 37 00:01:41,839 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: you know, I want to take you down the memory 38 00:01:43,410 --> 00:01:45,779 Speaker 2: lane for a little bit when you were studying. Did 39 00:01:45,790 --> 00:01:48,190 Speaker 2: you do any internships? Yeah, I did with the one 40 00:01:48,199 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: and only CN A which is how I got my 41 00:01:51,129 --> 00:01:54,129 Speaker 2: first full time job here. And in fact, I had 42 00:01:54,139 --> 00:01:56,809 Speaker 2: a verbal offer to join CN A as a TV, 43 00:01:56,819 --> 00:01:59,419 Speaker 2: current affairs producer before I graduated. 44 00:01:59,495 --> 00:02:02,764 Speaker 2: Nice. So your internship became your job, full time job? Yeah. 45 00:02:02,834 --> 00:02:05,375 Speaker 2: So the internship actually gave me a leg up into 46 00:02:05,385 --> 00:02:08,065 Speaker 2: my full time career. What about you? I did three 47 00:02:08,074 --> 00:02:11,625 Speaker 2: in total 31 in Poly, two in university with the 48 00:02:11,633 --> 00:02:14,285 Speaker 2: same company. No, all different companies because I wasn't so 49 00:02:14,294 --> 00:02:17,104 Speaker 2: sure what I wanted to do. So I tested and tried. 50 00:02:17,413 --> 00:02:20,475 Speaker 2: The interesting thing was the first internship company I had 51 00:02:20,485 --> 00:02:23,293 Speaker 2: was very near here. Oh, ok. It is somewhere near 52 00:02:23,304 --> 00:02:25,315 Speaker 2: one north when it was one off was not called 53 00:02:25,324 --> 00:02:27,274 Speaker 2: one north before. It was just called Boa Vista. 54 00:02:27,619 --> 00:02:29,589 Speaker 2: And where Ulu at the point of time to take 55 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: a bus go in. So I remember one specific thing 56 00:02:32,369 --> 00:02:35,729 Speaker 2: about that internship was the company that was in 57 00:02:36,059 --> 00:02:38,770 Speaker 2: had no full time employees. It was just all interns, 58 00:02:38,779 --> 00:02:41,638 Speaker 2: five interns and two of the bosses were two couples. 59 00:02:41,649 --> 00:02:43,918 Speaker 2: So they ran a company of interns. So we had 60 00:02:43,929 --> 00:02:46,459 Speaker 2: rotating interns which is good for their overheads, right? Because 61 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:48,779 Speaker 2: they're probably not paying all of you that much anyway. Yeah. 62 00:02:48,788 --> 00:02:51,220 Speaker 2: So we call it like the sweatshop, the joke among 63 00:02:51,229 --> 00:02:54,478 Speaker 2: all of us child labor factory. So during your internship 64 00:02:54,490 --> 00:02:56,330 Speaker 2: days with CN A, what were some of the best 65 00:02:56,339 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: and worst experiences you had? Ok, I'll talk about worse first. Ok. 66 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,149 Speaker 2: So my worst experience was accidentally wiping out an interview 67 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,220 Speaker 2: that our presenter Roland Lim did Roland Lim saw our 68 00:03:06,229 --> 00:03:08,149 Speaker 2: listeners might know he's on TV. Right now. He was 69 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,020 Speaker 2: here when I was an intern, but then he was 70 00:03:10,029 --> 00:03:12,809 Speaker 2: based in Hong Kong and he sent over an interview 71 00:03:12,820 --> 00:03:14,889 Speaker 2: that he did on tape. In the past. We used 72 00:03:14,899 --> 00:03:17,940 Speaker 2: to have interviews on tape. But because I was so inexperienced, 73 00:03:17,949 --> 00:03:19,918 Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was doing. Right. I erased 74 00:03:19,929 --> 00:03:22,860 Speaker 2: the entire interview from the tape but it was sorted 75 00:03:22,869 --> 00:03:24,740 Speaker 2: out in the end because he had resend it from 76 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:25,380 Speaker 2: Hong Kong. 77 00:03:25,619 --> 00:03:27,839 Speaker 2: And I don't think he ever knew. It was me 78 00:03:27,850 --> 00:03:31,119 Speaker 2: who wiped out the interview. Now. He knows now he knows. 79 00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:34,910 Speaker 2: Well, my best experience though was that I was part 80 00:03:34,919 --> 00:03:37,589 Speaker 2: of the team that produced a forum that the late 81 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,309 Speaker 2: Mr Lee Kuan Yew did with a group of young people. 82 00:03:40,410 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: So I was about 21 years old and it was 83 00:03:42,809 --> 00:03:45,660 Speaker 2: like exhilarating to be part of it. And I felt 84 00:03:45,669 --> 00:03:47,919 Speaker 2: like I was part of history. Yeah, I mean, what 85 00:03:47,929 --> 00:03:50,100 Speaker 2: an honor to be able to do something like that. 86 00:03:50,110 --> 00:03:53,029 Speaker 2: And internships are great for learning and for getting valuable 87 00:03:53,039 --> 00:03:56,339 Speaker 2: experiences these days, I hear many students don't just do one, 88 00:03:56,610 --> 00:04:00,179 Speaker 2: they do multiple internships. The most I've heard is seven. 89 00:04:00,279 --> 00:04:03,369 Speaker 2: I know this guy who did seven internships from university. 90 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,490 Speaker 2: But today this topic about internships is so relevant for us. 91 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: So I think we are so glad to have not 92 00:04:09,449 --> 00:04:12,130 Speaker 2: one but two people joining us in the studio, right? 93 00:04:12,139 --> 00:04:13,949 Speaker 2: And they are helping us to bring down the 94 00:04:14,279 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 2: median age of this podcast. Yes, we have Shaina Emmeline Mura, 95 00:04:18,750 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: she's 1/4 year student in NTU and to Yan Yun 96 00:04:22,970 --> 00:04:26,350 Speaker 2: who's also a third year student in NTU. So Yan Yan, 97 00:04:26,459 --> 00:04:29,980 Speaker 2: who we call yy is incidentally our intern here in 98 00:04:29,988 --> 00:04:31,250 Speaker 2: a podcast team 99 00:04:33,130 --> 00:04:34,988 Speaker 2: Well, they are both here in the studio with us 100 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,859 Speaker 2: because we want to talk about their internship experience so 101 00:04:37,869 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: far and whether they are anywhere closer to knowing what 102 00:04:40,850 --> 00:04:43,709 Speaker 2: they want to do for work. So welcome. Thank you. 103 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,789 Speaker 2: So let me ask the first question, how many internships 104 00:04:46,799 --> 00:04:48,230 Speaker 2: have both of you done so far 105 00:04:48,238 --> 00:04:52,029 Speaker 1: since I was in polytechnic? I've done four internships so far. 106 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,230 Speaker 1: So I just concluded my last internship in July. So 107 00:04:55,238 --> 00:04:57,959 Speaker 1: my first two internships were a compulsory part of the curriculum. 108 00:04:58,214 --> 00:05:02,553 Speaker 1: So it was with social service agencies and also government. OK? 109 00:05:02,565 --> 00:05:05,445 Speaker 1: And then when I was in uni I did a 110 00:05:05,454 --> 00:05:09,005 Speaker 1: summer internship with another government agency. And then my most 111 00:05:09,015 --> 00:05:11,674 Speaker 1: recent one I think is like the most different from 112 00:05:11,684 --> 00:05:14,165 Speaker 1: what I am studying in school. So I did at 113 00:05:14,174 --> 00:05:16,184 Speaker 1: an electronics company. OK. 114 00:05:16,195 --> 00:05:18,804 Speaker 2: So quite varied. We want to get into that later on. 115 00:05:18,815 --> 00:05:20,243 Speaker 2: What about you? Why, why, how many have you done 116 00:05:20,255 --> 00:05:22,785 Speaker 2: so far? Right now, my current internship is my third 117 00:05:23,170 --> 00:05:26,079 Speaker 2: and my track is quite different from Shaina because all 118 00:05:26,089 --> 00:05:29,070 Speaker 2: my internships are all in the same field and around 119 00:05:29,079 --> 00:05:31,828 Speaker 2: the same rules. So like it's all journalism and it's 120 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,570 Speaker 2: mostly editorial intern. Am I right to say that you 121 00:05:34,579 --> 00:05:36,328 Speaker 2: are clear about what you want to do? That's why 122 00:05:36,339 --> 00:05:37,849 Speaker 2: you are doing this, you can say or did you 123 00:05:37,859 --> 00:05:40,828 Speaker 2: get more and more confused after you are sucked into it? 124 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: And you're like, what have I done in my last 125 00:05:42,488 --> 00:05:44,589 Speaker 2: three internships? This is not what I want to do. 126 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,619 Speaker 2: I want to do computer science for, I'm the former. 127 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:49,539 Speaker 2: I think I'm way more clearer on what I want 128 00:05:49,622 --> 00:05:52,372 Speaker 2: do with every internship that I take. OK. How about Shaina? 129 00:05:52,632 --> 00:05:53,342 Speaker 2: How about you? Are you 130 00:05:53,351 --> 00:05:57,763 Speaker 1: clearer for me? Personally, I enjoy exploring new roles, which 131 00:05:57,773 --> 00:06:00,493 Speaker 1: is why from the start, all of my internship roles 132 00:06:00,502 --> 00:06:03,662 Speaker 1: have been something that's different from each other. And I 133 00:06:03,673 --> 00:06:07,403 Speaker 1: started off with very social service related roles. And then 134 00:06:07,412 --> 00:06:09,923 Speaker 1: when I went to UNI and I studied something different, 135 00:06:09,933 --> 00:06:11,342 Speaker 1: I thought this is also the chance for me to 136 00:06:11,351 --> 00:06:14,202 Speaker 1: explore what else there is out there. So I think 137 00:06:14,213 --> 00:06:16,053 Speaker 1: overall my experiences with intership 138 00:06:16,156 --> 00:06:19,455 Speaker 1: all pretty diverse and different. Yeah. What do you study? 139 00:06:19,466 --> 00:06:21,376 Speaker 1: So when I was in polytechnic, I did social work. 140 00:06:21,385 --> 00:06:24,196 Speaker 1: So it was something that's very niche. And I think 141 00:06:24,205 --> 00:06:27,205 Speaker 1: the roles that we could do for internship was all 142 00:06:27,216 --> 00:06:30,235 Speaker 1: in social service or social work agencies. So we worked 143 00:06:30,246 --> 00:06:32,406 Speaker 1: with different kind of groups like elderly or Children. And 144 00:06:32,415 --> 00:06:35,946 Speaker 1: then the second one was a social work research based role. 145 00:06:35,955 --> 00:06:38,354 Speaker 1: So a bit more different. And then when I went 146 00:06:38,365 --> 00:06:40,585 Speaker 1: to uni the summer internship I did was at a 147 00:06:40,596 --> 00:06:42,555 Speaker 1: government agency. So that one 148 00:06:42,688 --> 00:06:45,989 Speaker 1: dealt with a bit more of like data and numbers. 149 00:06:46,169 --> 00:06:48,748 Speaker 1: And then now the most recent one is talent acquisition. 150 00:06:48,829 --> 00:06:52,639 Speaker 1: So that's I think I made quite a big jump. 151 00:06:52,648 --> 00:06:55,408 Speaker 1: But I think it's something that really fits my curiosity 152 00:06:55,419 --> 00:06:57,658 Speaker 1: and I think I got to try new things, which 153 00:06:57,669 --> 00:06:59,588 Speaker 1: is what I really want to get out of internships. 154 00:06:59,598 --> 00:07:02,289 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, so after trying for different roles, would you 155 00:07:02,299 --> 00:07:03,669 Speaker 2: say that it helped you to become clearer? 156 00:07:03,678 --> 00:07:06,428 Speaker 1: For me, it gave me more clarity on the type 157 00:07:06,438 --> 00:07:09,109 Speaker 1: of roles I'm interested in. So not specifically like what 158 00:07:09,221 --> 00:07:12,441 Speaker 1: job, but I prefer roles which have a mix of 159 00:07:12,451 --> 00:07:14,242 Speaker 1: I get to interact with people. But also I get 160 00:07:14,252 --> 00:07:17,221 Speaker 1: to deal with data or do research or where I 161 00:07:17,231 --> 00:07:19,812 Speaker 1: have a creative outlet to do things on my own. 162 00:07:19,821 --> 00:07:23,201 Speaker 1: So I think in terms of my interest, there's definitely 163 00:07:23,212 --> 00:07:24,071 Speaker 1: more clarity on 164 00:07:24,082 --> 00:07:24,402 Speaker 1: that. 165 00:07:24,411 --> 00:07:27,411 Speaker 2: Yeah. So you have one more year left to study. Yeah. 166 00:07:27,421 --> 00:07:30,321 Speaker 2: Do you think that you want to try more internships 167 00:07:30,332 --> 00:07:31,712 Speaker 2: during this next year 168 00:07:31,721 --> 00:07:32,071 Speaker 1: for 169 00:07:32,082 --> 00:07:34,421 Speaker 1: me for now? I'm actually really open to doing more 170 00:07:34,432 --> 00:07:35,592 Speaker 1: internships because I 171 00:07:35,755 --> 00:07:38,934 Speaker 1: intentionally schedule my classes to just take up less than 172 00:07:38,945 --> 00:07:40,774 Speaker 1: half of my week so that I can still spare 173 00:07:40,785 --> 00:07:44,075 Speaker 1: some time to look for another internship role to fill 174 00:07:44,084 --> 00:07:47,255 Speaker 1: out what time before I graduate. And it will probably 175 00:07:47,265 --> 00:07:49,954 Speaker 1: be my last internship in to get a sense of 176 00:07:49,964 --> 00:07:52,274 Speaker 1: what I would want to do before I graduate. 177 00:07:52,684 --> 00:07:56,075 Speaker 2: Yeah. Help me to understand why, why, what is this 178 00:07:56,084 --> 00:07:59,734 Speaker 2: crazy thing about trying to do as many internships as possible? 179 00:07:59,744 --> 00:08:02,204 Speaker 2: Maybe I belong to that school? Of thought where i 180 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,420 Speaker 2: it's a school holidays, just enjoy yourself or let's just 181 00:08:05,429 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: finish up all your credit so that you finish school 182 00:08:07,609 --> 00:08:09,890 Speaker 2: and then just get straight to work. I think like 183 00:08:09,899 --> 00:08:12,779 Speaker 2: tapping on what Shakina said, what she said about squeezing 184 00:08:12,790 --> 00:08:15,309 Speaker 2: school to very few days and then bring up slots 185 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,739 Speaker 2: for the internship is super duper common. I also did 186 00:08:17,750 --> 00:08:18,100 Speaker 2: that for my 187 00:08:18,174 --> 00:08:21,184 Speaker 2: last internship. Why I went to school only like once 188 00:08:21,195 --> 00:08:22,984 Speaker 2: a week. And then the rest of my days I 189 00:08:22,994 --> 00:08:25,644 Speaker 2: was working full time at Rice Media. I feel like 190 00:08:25,654 --> 00:08:27,755 Speaker 2: the craze is because there's a shift in mindset that 191 00:08:27,765 --> 00:08:30,674 Speaker 2: students don't really prioritize school that much anymore now that 192 00:08:30,684 --> 00:08:33,065 Speaker 2: we're in uni so we hear GPA is not really 193 00:08:33,075 --> 00:08:33,755 Speaker 2: that important, 194 00:08:34,030 --> 00:08:36,270 Speaker 2: like you can just get 3.5 GPA. The more important 195 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,409 Speaker 2: thing is that you have work experiences to bolster your 196 00:08:38,419 --> 00:08:41,140 Speaker 2: portfolio for me. I know that I want to be 197 00:08:41,150 --> 00:08:43,929 Speaker 2: in journalism. So what is going to set me apart 198 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:45,830 Speaker 2: from people who want to be in journalism is how 199 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,409 Speaker 2: many internships I've got lining behind me? I see and 200 00:08:48,419 --> 00:08:50,849 Speaker 2: how relevant my skills will be so that I can 201 00:08:50,859 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: assume very quickly into journalism when I eventually want to 202 00:08:53,770 --> 00:08:56,250 Speaker 2: apply for a full time job. So why not just 203 00:08:56,260 --> 00:08:58,809 Speaker 2: quickly get it over and done with? And then after that, 204 00:08:58,820 --> 00:09:00,968 Speaker 2: start your career from there, I think it's just the 205 00:09:00,979 --> 00:09:01,799 Speaker 2: anxious feeling 206 00:09:02,083 --> 00:09:04,473 Speaker 2: that what you have is not enough. OK. I think 207 00:09:04,484 --> 00:09:07,513 Speaker 2: it's because linkedin, you see people on there with like, what? 208 00:09:07,523 --> 00:09:09,823 Speaker 2: J 6 to 7 internships and then you're there with 209 00:09:09,833 --> 00:09:12,733 Speaker 2: one or two internships. It's inevitable that you compare yourself 210 00:09:12,744 --> 00:09:14,892 Speaker 2: to these people and wonder if you guys are applying 211 00:09:14,903 --> 00:09:17,364 Speaker 2: for the same jobs with the same GPA studying the 212 00:09:17,374 --> 00:09:19,623 Speaker 2: same thing who's going to get the upper cut. And 213 00:09:19,633 --> 00:09:21,382 Speaker 2: it's definitely going to be someone with like 4 to 214 00:09:21,393 --> 00:09:24,083 Speaker 2: 5 internships who have skills that immediately fit what the 215 00:09:24,093 --> 00:09:26,914 Speaker 2: employers are already looking for. And now I think if 216 00:09:26,924 --> 00:09:28,864 Speaker 2: you scroll job openings, they don't just say like, oh, 217 00:09:28,874 --> 00:09:29,684 Speaker 2: anybody who has 218 00:09:29,756 --> 00:09:32,127 Speaker 2: interest is welcome. Yeah, you're saying, oh, you must have 219 00:09:32,138 --> 00:09:35,668 Speaker 2: experience with maybe Photoshop, maybe you've learned how to write 220 00:09:35,677 --> 00:09:38,697 Speaker 2: or you've had this experience with writing or this experience 221 00:09:38,708 --> 00:09:41,088 Speaker 2: with interviews and then you can maybe pass through even 222 00:09:41,098 --> 00:09:44,367 Speaker 2: to just get an interview. Wow. Ok. It's almost like 223 00:09:44,377 --> 00:09:46,497 Speaker 2: an arms race, right? Yeah. It's like an arms race. 224 00:09:46,506 --> 00:09:49,256 Speaker 2: I can feel like what I was saying about the anxiousness. 225 00:09:49,268 --> 00:09:51,307 Speaker 2: It's not just enough to get decent grades. I, we're 226 00:09:51,317 --> 00:09:53,227 Speaker 2: not looking at top tier grades, right? But just decent grades. 227 00:09:53,237 --> 00:09:57,487 Speaker 2: But you really want to have enough experiences, your skills. Right. Yeah. 228 00:09:57,692 --> 00:10:00,021 Speaker 2: And this is what employers are already expecting from you 229 00:10:00,030 --> 00:10:02,021 Speaker 2: right out of school. Yeah. They're not giving you time 230 00:10:02,030 --> 00:10:05,841 Speaker 2: to learn. Yeah, I do think that internships are really useful. 231 00:10:05,851 --> 00:10:07,942 Speaker 2: It's just that for me listening to this is a 232 00:10:07,952 --> 00:10:10,941 Speaker 2: little bit worrying if it's motivated by a sense of 233 00:10:10,952 --> 00:10:13,531 Speaker 2: fear or anxiousness that I'm not good enough. I don't 234 00:10:13,541 --> 00:10:16,502 Speaker 2: have enough. It's not quite healthy in a way because 235 00:10:16,511 --> 00:10:17,742 Speaker 2: we can also look at it the other way. Right. 236 00:10:17,752 --> 00:10:19,952 Speaker 2: There are people who just do one intership, one good 237 00:10:19,961 --> 00:10:22,471 Speaker 2: solid one and they are just as equipped to secure 238 00:10:22,481 --> 00:10:24,761 Speaker 2: a job. But yet what we are seeing with young 239 00:10:24,771 --> 00:10:25,401 Speaker 2: people in, you know, 240 00:10:25,486 --> 00:10:27,426 Speaker 2: universities, I do think that there's a lot of fear 241 00:10:27,434 --> 00:10:29,556 Speaker 2: that they are not good enough. And I hear this right, 242 00:10:29,565 --> 00:10:32,064 Speaker 2: strangely enough from all the universities and the students will 243 00:10:32,075 --> 00:10:34,385 Speaker 2: be comparing universities. My university is not as good as 244 00:10:34,395 --> 00:10:36,755 Speaker 2: the other ones. So we can't compete. So therefore I 245 00:10:36,765 --> 00:10:38,976 Speaker 2: got to do more. I see. Yeah. So it's good 246 00:10:38,986 --> 00:10:40,765 Speaker 2: to have the drive right? To want to do well 247 00:10:40,776 --> 00:10:42,276 Speaker 2: for your future. There's nothing wrong with that. But I 248 00:10:42,285 --> 00:10:45,505 Speaker 2: think if today we are always fearing and worrying that 249 00:10:45,515 --> 00:10:47,515 Speaker 2: we don't have enough, we need to learn where that 250 00:10:47,526 --> 00:10:49,635 Speaker 2: boundary is. Hm, I know there are some people who 251 00:10:49,645 --> 00:10:52,265 Speaker 2: also go to quite great lengths to try and secure 252 00:10:52,276 --> 00:10:53,265 Speaker 2: an internship, right? 253 00:10:53,349 --> 00:10:56,090 Speaker 2: Why, why you took leave of absence to go and 254 00:10:56,099 --> 00:10:57,729 Speaker 2: do an internship? Can you tell us more about that? 255 00:10:57,739 --> 00:11:00,820 Speaker 2: The thing about internships now is that I feel the 256 00:11:00,830 --> 00:11:02,770 Speaker 2: bad thing about it is that because a lot of 257 00:11:02,780 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 2: employers get interns so like their requirements for internships are 258 00:11:06,210 --> 00:11:08,739 Speaker 2: like getting harder and harder to hit. So there are 259 00:11:08,750 --> 00:11:11,069 Speaker 2: multiple internships that I wanted to go to that only 260 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,479 Speaker 2: one third interns who can commit for six months. Ok. 261 00:11:14,489 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: So usually interns try to go for three weeks because 262 00:11:17,010 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 2: then we can squeeze in during our holidays. Right? And 263 00:11:18,969 --> 00:11:20,270 Speaker 2: then we won't have to take time out of school 264 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,130 Speaker 2: to go for internships. 265 00:11:21,544 --> 00:11:23,323 Speaker 2: But a lot of the ones that I was looking 266 00:11:23,333 --> 00:11:26,033 Speaker 2: at wanted like six months. So I had already done 267 00:11:26,044 --> 00:11:29,013 Speaker 2: my requirement for internship with school. So it wasn't possible 268 00:11:29,023 --> 00:11:30,693 Speaker 2: for me to do a six month one where I 269 00:11:30,703 --> 00:11:32,564 Speaker 2: could still be in school and do my internship. So 270 00:11:32,573 --> 00:11:34,874 Speaker 2: I thought that the only way I had to be 271 00:11:34,883 --> 00:11:36,754 Speaker 2: able to do it was if I took six months, 272 00:11:36,814 --> 00:11:38,744 Speaker 2: if I took an lo a so that I would 273 00:11:38,754 --> 00:11:40,754 Speaker 2: get a better advantage if I wanted to apply for 274 00:11:40,763 --> 00:11:43,833 Speaker 2: the internship. And I think a lot of internships also 275 00:11:43,843 --> 00:11:46,093 Speaker 2: require you to commit a lot of time and effort 276 00:11:46,203 --> 00:11:48,273 Speaker 2: like truth to be told, you're not just an intern, 277 00:11:48,283 --> 00:11:49,023 Speaker 2: you're also committed 278 00:11:49,078 --> 00:11:51,538 Speaker 2: the same amount of hours as no time. Exactly. And 279 00:11:51,547 --> 00:11:53,857 Speaker 2: you're taking on the same amount of workload that they 280 00:11:53,867 --> 00:11:56,617 Speaker 2: might have. And so it's just not possible for you 281 00:11:56,627 --> 00:11:58,968 Speaker 2: to juggle school and work at the same time. So 282 00:11:58,977 --> 00:12:01,006 Speaker 2: a lot of people try to like what Shaina does, 283 00:12:01,018 --> 00:12:03,038 Speaker 2: they take all their classes on one day and then 284 00:12:03,047 --> 00:12:04,708 Speaker 2: the rest of the four days. Even though they have school, 285 00:12:04,718 --> 00:12:07,028 Speaker 2: they just skip it and then they go for work. Yeah, 286 00:12:07,737 --> 00:12:09,788 Speaker 2: Shana cramming everything, making everything work together. How was it 287 00:12:09,797 --> 00:12:10,098 Speaker 2: like for 288 00:12:10,107 --> 00:12:10,297 Speaker 2: you 289 00:12:10,307 --> 00:12:13,708 Speaker 1: when I was interning recently my intern friend, she crammed 290 00:12:13,718 --> 00:12:15,687 Speaker 1: her classes in three days and she came to office 291 00:12:15,697 --> 00:12:16,848 Speaker 1: for two days and every, 292 00:12:16,942 --> 00:12:18,841 Speaker 1: every time she comes to office, she will seem very 293 00:12:18,851 --> 00:12:21,562 Speaker 1: tired because she will say, oh, it's a challenge to 294 00:12:21,572 --> 00:12:23,780 Speaker 1: keep up with internship and school at the same time. 295 00:12:23,791 --> 00:12:26,642 Speaker 1: But she shared that internship to her is very important 296 00:12:26,651 --> 00:12:29,551 Speaker 1: because in her school, she feels like between her classmates, 297 00:12:29,562 --> 00:12:33,191 Speaker 1: there's this competition on like people securing internships, like what 298 00:12:33,202 --> 00:12:36,291 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier also and all her friends have secured 299 00:12:36,302 --> 00:12:38,861 Speaker 1: internships and she feels that it's like a risk even 300 00:12:38,872 --> 00:12:40,781 Speaker 1: when we were doing the internship, she was looking for 301 00:12:40,791 --> 00:12:42,122 Speaker 1: internships after that as well. 302 00:12:42,622 --> 00:12:43,122 Speaker 2: Yeah. 303 00:12:43,581 --> 00:12:44,711 Speaker 1: So she was actively, 304 00:12:44,806 --> 00:12:48,106 Speaker 2: I feel very stressed listening to them. I feel like, 305 00:12:48,116 --> 00:12:49,405 Speaker 2: you know, as a mom right now, I just want 306 00:12:49,416 --> 00:12:50,846 Speaker 2: to look at and say on them to give them 307 00:12:50,875 --> 00:12:53,056 Speaker 2: a hug and say it's OK. You know, so this 308 00:12:53,065 --> 00:12:54,976 Speaker 2: is how I'm seeing it, right? It's like you guys 309 00:12:54,986 --> 00:12:56,655 Speaker 2: are working so hard right now and you are still 310 00:12:56,666 --> 00:12:59,495 Speaker 2: studying and then after that, eventually you'll get to the workplace. 311 00:12:59,716 --> 00:13:02,226 Speaker 2: So the chances of you guys burning out is actually 312 00:13:02,236 --> 00:13:05,286 Speaker 2: quite high and it will come fast because you're already 313 00:13:05,296 --> 00:13:08,176 Speaker 2: hustling now while you are still studying. Yeah. I think 314 00:13:08,184 --> 00:13:10,314 Speaker 2: the worst thing is you get no breaks because you 315 00:13:10,325 --> 00:13:12,585 Speaker 2: do school and then semester you work and then you 316 00:13:12,669 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 2: immediately go back to school and then some people even 317 00:13:14,570 --> 00:13:17,090 Speaker 2: work while they are schooling, like, shocking and then they 318 00:13:17,099 --> 00:13:18,819 Speaker 2: immediately jump back to school again. So it's like a 319 00:13:18,830 --> 00:13:21,409 Speaker 2: nonstop cycle of no rest, no rest, no rest. 9 320 00:13:21,419 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: to 59 to 59 to 5. So I think the 321 00:13:23,890 --> 00:13:25,809 Speaker 2: worst thing is a lot of students no longer feel 322 00:13:25,820 --> 00:13:28,108 Speaker 2: like a student anymore. Yeah. And it's very sad because 323 00:13:28,119 --> 00:13:30,250 Speaker 2: I think like, the uni experience only comes once in 324 00:13:30,309 --> 00:13:32,210 Speaker 2: a blue moon. Right. And of course, schools provide you 325 00:13:32,219 --> 00:13:34,650 Speaker 2: a lot of opportunities to be a student and explore, 326 00:13:34,659 --> 00:13:36,869 Speaker 2: take classes, take any kind of classes, take any kind 327 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,530 Speaker 2: of classes. I took one charter class, how to make 328 00:13:39,539 --> 00:13:40,450 Speaker 2: green tea or something. 329 00:13:40,533 --> 00:13:41,973 Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought that was quite fun but I didn't 330 00:13:41,984 --> 00:13:42,893 Speaker 2: take it in the end. But I thought that was 331 00:13:42,903 --> 00:13:44,703 Speaker 2: quite fun and it should be the way that should 332 00:13:44,713 --> 00:13:47,143 Speaker 2: be what studying is like. Right. Yeah. But now everyone 333 00:13:47,153 --> 00:13:49,083 Speaker 2: is just like working and then it's almost like we 334 00:13:49,093 --> 00:13:52,364 Speaker 2: are rushing our entry into adulthood. Correct? Yeah. I think 335 00:13:52,374 --> 00:13:54,434 Speaker 2: that's what it is. Just not when you say that 336 00:13:54,443 --> 00:13:56,054 Speaker 2: we don't feel like students anymore. Then what do you 337 00:13:56,064 --> 00:14:00,804 Speaker 2: feel like? I feel like I'm a student perpetually preparing 338 00:14:00,814 --> 00:14:04,383 Speaker 2: myself to enter into working world. Like I'm a student 339 00:14:04,393 --> 00:14:06,374 Speaker 2: and worker at the same time, it's a lot to 340 00:14:06,383 --> 00:14:08,314 Speaker 2: take in hearing from you guys. And even from 341 00:14:08,398 --> 00:14:10,297 Speaker 2: me though I hear it from many others as well. 342 00:14:10,307 --> 00:14:13,138 Speaker 2: Your journey resonates and mirrors a lot with what many 343 00:14:13,148 --> 00:14:15,367 Speaker 2: others your age are going through as well. The time 344 00:14:15,377 --> 00:14:17,098 Speaker 2: that we were interns, I think it was a very 345 00:14:17,107 --> 00:14:19,918 Speaker 2: different period. Right. Yeah, I was allowed to make mistakes. 346 00:14:19,927 --> 00:14:22,728 Speaker 2: I had nothing to do during my holidays. So some 347 00:14:22,737 --> 00:14:24,978 Speaker 2: friends said ECN A is looking for interns. Do you 348 00:14:24,987 --> 00:14:26,177 Speaker 2: want to go and sign up? And I was like, yeah, 349 00:14:26,187 --> 00:14:28,918 Speaker 2: why not get a chance to work for the national broadcaster? 350 00:14:29,138 --> 00:14:31,617 Speaker 2: But nobody around me was trying to do an internship 351 00:14:31,627 --> 00:14:34,838 Speaker 2: and I was considered like, well, so go getter already. 352 00:14:34,987 --> 00:14:35,737 Speaker 2: I'm so jealous. 353 00:14:36,650 --> 00:14:39,030 Speaker 2: So so far, I mean, you guys have already had 354 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:41,219 Speaker 2: your foot into the working world. Are there things that 355 00:14:41,229 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 2: kind of surprised you about work? I cannot say much 356 00:14:45,090 --> 00:14:49,059 Speaker 2: about work, but I can say that for internship, what 357 00:14:49,070 --> 00:14:51,390 Speaker 2: surprised me was the fact that like when you say 358 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,950 Speaker 2: that you had room to make mistakes, I was so jealous. Hey, 359 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 2: I let you make mistakes or 360 00:14:56,770 --> 00:14:59,489 Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of internships, they immediately throw 361 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:01,669 Speaker 2: you into the deep end and then they expect you 362 00:15:01,679 --> 00:15:04,229 Speaker 2: to be able to quickly pick up the slack. But 363 00:15:04,239 --> 00:15:06,210 Speaker 2: you also have to do what a full time worker 364 00:15:06,219 --> 00:15:09,130 Speaker 2: would be expected. To do. So when I went into 365 00:15:09,140 --> 00:15:11,559 Speaker 2: my first internship, I thought like this was just like 366 00:15:11,570 --> 00:15:14,119 Speaker 2: a silly goofy thing I can just explore and do 367 00:15:14,130 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: whatever I want. 368 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,020 Speaker 2: And then it was kind of like a leap for 369 00:15:18,030 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: me because there was not really training required. My boss 370 00:15:21,010 --> 00:15:22,979 Speaker 2: gave me writing samples to look at and then I 371 00:15:22,989 --> 00:15:25,979 Speaker 2: immediately started writing on the fly. So there was something 372 00:15:25,989 --> 00:15:28,289 Speaker 2: that surprised me a lot and I don't know if 373 00:15:28,299 --> 00:15:30,969 Speaker 2: I did something that a lot of interns experience. But 374 00:15:31,109 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: I do hear horror stories of a lot of my 375 00:15:33,010 --> 00:15:36,340 Speaker 2: friends getting badly scolded because they couldn't catch up to 376 00:15:36,349 --> 00:15:38,590 Speaker 2: the speed of the working world even though they are 377 00:15:38,599 --> 00:15:40,690 Speaker 2: students or like they are able to immediately feel all 378 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:40,820 Speaker 2: the 379 00:15:40,914 --> 00:15:44,544 Speaker 2: puzzle pieces because their skill sets don't exactly match 100% 380 00:15:44,984 --> 00:15:49,223 Speaker 1: building on yy story about horror stories and internship, right? 381 00:15:49,234 --> 00:15:52,244 Speaker 1: One of my first few experiences in internship, I remember 382 00:15:52,343 --> 00:15:54,033 Speaker 1: the first few days what we did was we were 383 00:15:54,044 --> 00:15:57,573 Speaker 1: handed this file with a lot of phone numbers that 384 00:15:57,583 --> 00:16:00,294 Speaker 1: we had to call. So I remember we came into 385 00:16:00,304 --> 00:16:02,374 Speaker 1: office and then what we did was just use the 386 00:16:02,383 --> 00:16:05,533 Speaker 1: company phone to call the list of numbers and then 387 00:16:05,544 --> 00:16:06,244 Speaker 1: see whether the number 388 00:16:06,307 --> 00:16:08,148 Speaker 1: but still exists so that we can keep it in 389 00:16:08,158 --> 00:16:10,978 Speaker 1: the database. It's different in the sense that there are 390 00:16:10,987 --> 00:16:14,047 Speaker 1: some internships where I entered and I was able to 391 00:16:14,057 --> 00:16:17,078 Speaker 1: go straight into learning something new or getting a deep 392 00:16:17,088 --> 00:16:20,877 Speaker 1: dive into the work itself. But also some internships tend 393 00:16:20,888 --> 00:16:23,638 Speaker 1: to have a slower start where you have to get 394 00:16:23,648 --> 00:16:28,168 Speaker 1: use or custom to more administrative or technical work before 395 00:16:28,177 --> 00:16:31,357 Speaker 1: you can dive into doing something more interesting and learn 396 00:16:31,388 --> 00:16:31,538 Speaker 2: more 397 00:16:31,742 --> 00:16:33,830 Speaker 2: posibility as well. Right. Um, 398 00:16:33,841 --> 00:16:35,331 Speaker 1: so I think it's different in that sense and I've 399 00:16:35,341 --> 00:16:38,392 Speaker 1: also heard of similar stories with my friends where they say, oh, 400 00:16:38,401 --> 00:16:40,822 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm doing mostly admin work. I'm, I'm 401 00:16:40,831 --> 00:16:42,911 Speaker 1: craving for something more. I want to do something more. 402 00:16:42,921 --> 00:16:45,101 Speaker 1: And then usually it's like, ok, what can I do? 403 00:16:45,111 --> 00:16:47,122 Speaker 1: Maybe they will go and ask their supervisor. This is 404 00:16:47,132 --> 00:16:49,702 Speaker 1: what I want exposure specifically. Is it possible for me 405 00:16:49,711 --> 00:16:50,682 Speaker 1: to do that? Hm. 406 00:16:50,692 --> 00:16:53,421 Speaker 2: I think even in the management of interns, right? From 407 00:16:53,432 --> 00:16:56,492 Speaker 2: a company perspective, many times, some of the companies I 408 00:16:56,502 --> 00:16:56,921 Speaker 2: know that 409 00:16:57,096 --> 00:16:59,866 Speaker 2: with benefit take intern, sometimes they may not structure the 410 00:16:59,875 --> 00:17:02,926 Speaker 2: management well enough. Like they don't structure a learning plan 411 00:17:02,935 --> 00:17:05,275 Speaker 2: for people to follow or even like they don't have 412 00:17:05,286 --> 00:17:08,465 Speaker 2: a proper supervisor. Most of them, they report to multiple 413 00:17:08,475 --> 00:17:11,875 Speaker 2: supervisors and then none of them are investing the time 414 00:17:11,885 --> 00:17:13,416 Speaker 2: and they're just making most of the person do this 415 00:17:13,426 --> 00:17:15,176 Speaker 2: and do that. And the poor intern is struggling to 416 00:17:15,186 --> 00:17:16,936 Speaker 2: know whose work should I do first? And the poor 417 00:17:16,946 --> 00:17:19,745 Speaker 2: intern is just burn out. You're getting a full time 418 00:17:19,755 --> 00:17:21,946 Speaker 2: for a price of less than a full timer. I 419 00:17:21,955 --> 00:17:22,354 Speaker 2: think 420 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,978 Speaker 2: really some effort to groom and to develop the intern 421 00:17:25,989 --> 00:17:27,780 Speaker 2: will help the intern a lot, help you as well 422 00:17:27,790 --> 00:17:30,020 Speaker 2: as a supervisor. So this is maybe a little thing 423 00:17:30,030 --> 00:17:32,589 Speaker 2: for companies that hire interns, right? We really want to 424 00:17:32,599 --> 00:17:34,630 Speaker 2: take it a bit more seriously. Well, in the next 425 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,089 Speaker 2: part of this podcast, I want to turn the tables 426 00:17:37,099 --> 00:17:39,660 Speaker 2: and have both of you. Yy and Shaina, 427 00:17:39,989 --> 00:17:42,649 Speaker 2: you can ask us any questions you want. I mean, 428 00:17:42,660 --> 00:17:45,979 Speaker 2: this is probably when you have full autonomy to ask 429 00:17:45,989 --> 00:17:48,849 Speaker 2: Jarro and I who have been through this, don't worry, 430 00:17:48,859 --> 00:17:52,050 Speaker 2: you are protected. Nothing you say here will be taken 431 00:17:52,060 --> 00:17:54,859 Speaker 2: against you or be used against you in court. So, yeah. 432 00:17:54,869 --> 00:17:57,619 Speaker 2: Do you have any questions that you want? Definitely. Oh yeah. 433 00:17:58,099 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: Go for it. I already told you already, we are 434 00:18:00,010 --> 00:18:03,420 Speaker 2: ready for this. Ok. We won't take this personally. He 435 00:18:03,459 --> 00:18:06,449 Speaker 2: never looks worried. I'm not worried. Tiffany, you said that 436 00:18:06,459 --> 00:18:08,810 Speaker 2: you've been in CN A for like 20 years, right? 437 00:18:08,819 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 2: And then I haven't been 438 00:18:09,925 --> 00:18:12,084 Speaker 2: for 20 years, but yes, I have been CN A 439 00:18:12,094 --> 00:18:13,905 Speaker 2: for a while. Yeah. And then like you got this 440 00:18:13,915 --> 00:18:16,175 Speaker 2: job because you were interning. Yeah. And then you said 441 00:18:16,185 --> 00:18:18,135 Speaker 2: that you were allowed to make mistakes. But how do 442 00:18:18,145 --> 00:18:20,285 Speaker 2: you turn that around and still get like a full 443 00:18:20,295 --> 00:18:23,935 Speaker 2: time job offer? So when you make mistakes, the team 444 00:18:23,944 --> 00:18:27,454 Speaker 2: is supposed to help to absorb those mistakes for you. Understandably, 445 00:18:27,464 --> 00:18:29,375 Speaker 2: it's part of the learning process. Let's see how we 446 00:18:29,385 --> 00:18:32,104 Speaker 2: can solve this. If let's say you made a mistake. 447 00:18:32,114 --> 00:18:35,064 Speaker 2: But more importantly, the employer will offer somebody a job. 448 00:18:35,074 --> 00:18:37,474 Speaker 2: If they feel that you care about the job, you 449 00:18:37,484 --> 00:18:39,444 Speaker 2: have a good attitude going into the job, 450 00:18:39,719 --> 00:18:42,260 Speaker 2: the skills are something that we can see day to day, right? 451 00:18:42,270 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 2: We know the kind of skills that we have prepared 452 00:18:45,010 --> 00:18:47,770 Speaker 2: you for that full time job. But what we cannot 453 00:18:47,780 --> 00:18:50,739 Speaker 2: prepare you for is the attitude you will take into 454 00:18:50,750 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 2: this role. I think for mistakes, right? It's going to 455 00:18:53,530 --> 00:18:55,579 Speaker 2: be part and parcel of our lives. I still make mistakes. 456 00:18:55,589 --> 00:18:58,369 Speaker 2: We all make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. So we really 457 00:18:58,380 --> 00:19:01,150 Speaker 2: have to be kind to ourselves first to acknowledge that 458 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,599 Speaker 2: maybe as an intern, that's the best time to make mistakes. 459 00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:05,910 Speaker 2: But it's really about what we do after we make 460 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 2: a mistake. Do we 461 00:19:06,796 --> 00:19:10,376 Speaker 2: learn from it and avoid it and say, I'm sorry, 462 00:19:10,386 --> 00:19:12,217 Speaker 2: I made this mistake. I will not repeat it again 463 00:19:12,227 --> 00:19:14,416 Speaker 2: and move on. Yeah. Right. Because a lot of us 464 00:19:14,427 --> 00:19:16,495 Speaker 2: we struggle with having made a mistake and then it 465 00:19:16,506 --> 00:19:18,577 Speaker 2: spins and perpetuates in our head and I'm always gonna 466 00:19:18,587 --> 00:19:20,577 Speaker 2: make mistakes. I'm not good enough and etcetera, etcetera. Then 467 00:19:20,587 --> 00:19:23,717 Speaker 2: it creates this very negative cycle already of behavior. When 468 00:19:23,727 --> 00:19:24,967 Speaker 2: you are working, you are going to make even more 469 00:19:24,977 --> 00:19:27,577 Speaker 2: mistakes and those mistakes are costlier when you are a 470 00:19:27,587 --> 00:19:29,896 Speaker 2: full time staff because you could be in a position 471 00:19:29,906 --> 00:19:32,495 Speaker 2: where the buck stops with you. Yeah, I remember once 472 00:19:32,506 --> 00:19:33,807 Speaker 2: amid this calculation error 473 00:19:33,973 --> 00:19:37,083 Speaker 2: and it amounted to maybe millions. All right. And I 474 00:19:37,093 --> 00:19:39,783 Speaker 2: had to brief my boss about that issue. So I 475 00:19:39,792 --> 00:19:41,453 Speaker 2: planned out around like, how am I'm going to tell 476 00:19:41,463 --> 00:19:44,572 Speaker 2: my boss how I'm going to rectify the situation. How 477 00:19:44,583 --> 00:19:46,052 Speaker 2: are we going to get the things back? And I 478 00:19:46,063 --> 00:19:47,703 Speaker 2: think I planned so much in my head right? When 479 00:19:47,713 --> 00:19:49,604 Speaker 2: I asked to her, all she said was, oh, thanks 480 00:19:49,614 --> 00:19:51,813 Speaker 2: for owning up. We get it settled. I just needed 481 00:19:51,823 --> 00:19:53,213 Speaker 2: her to know that I will be on top of 482 00:19:53,223 --> 00:19:55,513 Speaker 2: this to make this better because it's my mess and 483 00:19:55,523 --> 00:19:58,264 Speaker 2: it didn't affect my reputation in the company. What about you, Shakina? 484 00:19:58,273 --> 00:19:59,933 Speaker 2: Do you have a question for us building 485 00:19:59,943 --> 00:20:00,854 Speaker 1: on the topic of Miss? 486 00:20:01,181 --> 00:20:03,889 Speaker 1: Right? I feel sometimes interns, we go in and make 487 00:20:03,901 --> 00:20:06,801 Speaker 1: certain mistakes. But what are the mistakes that we can 488 00:20:06,811 --> 00:20:07,451 Speaker 1: avoid? 489 00:20:07,461 --> 00:20:09,901 Speaker 2: Are you asking because you think that you make a mistake? 490 00:20:09,911 --> 00:20:13,561 Speaker 1: Because I think like sometimes maybe interns don't take enough initiative, 491 00:20:13,571 --> 00:20:14,370 Speaker 1: for example, 492 00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:14,921 Speaker 2: because 493 00:20:14,980 --> 00:20:18,010 Speaker 2: after all, it is our first exposure to the working world. 494 00:20:18,020 --> 00:20:20,081 Speaker 2: So we don't really know what is valued or what 495 00:20:20,090 --> 00:20:24,211 Speaker 2: is prioritized. So the question is what do employers value 496 00:20:24,220 --> 00:20:26,781 Speaker 2: when we are bringing interns on board? Someone who is 497 00:20:26,791 --> 00:20:27,931 Speaker 2: perhaps willing to learn, 498 00:20:28,339 --> 00:20:33,079 Speaker 2: willing to ask questions, be able to consult, collaborate and 499 00:20:33,089 --> 00:20:34,979 Speaker 2: when you are not sure of the task that is 500 00:20:34,989 --> 00:20:38,030 Speaker 2: given to you, right, be able to provide a solution 501 00:20:38,180 --> 00:20:42,010 Speaker 2: or clarify with someone whether supervisor or your colleague, right, 502 00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:44,489 Speaker 2: to be able to find a solution together, the not 503 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:46,750 Speaker 2: so good side of it would be someone who comes 504 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:47,079 Speaker 2: in 505 00:20:47,349 --> 00:20:49,968 Speaker 2: and then just expects to be told like exactly what 506 00:20:49,979 --> 00:20:52,010 Speaker 2: to do. I need like step one to step 10 507 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,449 Speaker 2: very detailed and then doing step one, you got mistake, 508 00:20:55,459 --> 00:20:57,729 Speaker 2: maybe even at that point, it is OK. But then 509 00:20:57,739 --> 00:21:00,530 Speaker 2: if today is repeated, I keep telling you and then 510 00:21:00,540 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: you keep doing the same mistakes over and over again 511 00:21:02,819 --> 00:21:04,250 Speaker 2: or you just don't seem to get it, 512 00:21:04,660 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: then this is where the supervisors will just hold back 513 00:21:07,050 --> 00:21:09,290 Speaker 2: from giving you more work ready. They might just delegate 514 00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:12,150 Speaker 2: you to the most, maybe simplest work so that you 515 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 2: just pass your internship. Well, yeah. So a lot of 516 00:21:14,530 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 2: this is really about how we learn quickly and bounce 517 00:21:17,449 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: back quickly for maybe making mistakes or collaborate fast with 518 00:21:21,050 --> 00:21:23,719 Speaker 2: people around you. I think this is something that my 519 00:21:23,729 --> 00:21:25,958 Speaker 2: own personal observation among a lot of younger people, 520 00:21:26,339 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 2: the workplace relationships. That's something that's not so easily understood. 521 00:21:29,890 --> 00:21:32,629 Speaker 2: Maybe because of COVID, there was this gap, right? I 522 00:21:32,650 --> 00:21:34,619 Speaker 2: do see a lot of younger people not knowing how 523 00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:37,129 Speaker 2: to interact with the older workers. They don't know how 524 00:21:37,140 --> 00:21:39,319 Speaker 2: to ask for help. They don't know how to negotiate, 525 00:21:39,329 --> 00:21:41,790 Speaker 2: they don't know how to collaborate together on a piece 526 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 2: of work. 527 00:21:42,385 --> 00:21:44,234 Speaker 2: So end up very common. What I hear is I 528 00:21:44,244 --> 00:21:46,114 Speaker 2: just ask them and then let them say what they 529 00:21:46,125 --> 00:21:48,405 Speaker 2: want to say. I disagree but I don't voice out 530 00:21:48,415 --> 00:21:51,574 Speaker 2: and then it becomes this very negative experience of working already. Yeah, 531 00:21:51,734 --> 00:21:54,275 Speaker 2: for me, I just have one simple one when you 532 00:21:54,285 --> 00:21:56,744 Speaker 2: give ideas just to say, I want to try something 533 00:21:56,755 --> 00:21:58,324 Speaker 2: that can make this better. 534 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 2: 10 out of 10 people will be very happy to 535 00:22:01,170 --> 00:22:03,228 Speaker 2: give you time and space to go and try. So 536 00:22:03,239 --> 00:22:04,729 Speaker 2: I would say that that is part of the making 537 00:22:04,739 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: mistakes thing because you never know whether it might be 538 00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:09,179 Speaker 2: something beautiful at the end of the day, right? It's 539 00:22:09,189 --> 00:22:11,659 Speaker 2: just about experimenting and just trying and this is the 540 00:22:11,670 --> 00:22:14,010 Speaker 2: best time for you to try an experiment because 541 00:22:14,635 --> 00:22:17,864 Speaker 2: nobody is really expecting you to bring in profits. Yeah. 542 00:22:17,875 --> 00:22:19,974 Speaker 2: So really, I think voicing out, you really have to 543 00:22:19,984 --> 00:22:22,415 Speaker 2: find the courage to voice out and to speak for 544 00:22:22,425 --> 00:22:25,093 Speaker 2: what you want. I hope that this chat was helpful 545 00:22:25,104 --> 00:22:27,194 Speaker 2: for both of you. It's helpful for me as well 546 00:22:27,204 --> 00:22:30,194 Speaker 2: to also see what you guys are going through. And 547 00:22:30,364 --> 00:22:32,294 Speaker 2: now I want to go and ask why, why, how 548 00:22:32,305 --> 00:22:35,545 Speaker 2: I can be part of her development plan better. So 549 00:22:35,555 --> 00:22:37,665 Speaker 2: thank you the ladies for coming on this podcast. I 550 00:22:37,675 --> 00:22:38,574 Speaker 2: really appreciate it. 551 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,339 Speaker 2: Welcome back to our A ma segment with Tiffany and Gerald. Now, 552 00:22:47,349 --> 00:22:50,660 Speaker 2: sometimes when we end this podcast. We will ask you 553 00:22:50,670 --> 00:22:53,670 Speaker 2: to write back and tell us how things are going. 554 00:22:53,930 --> 00:22:57,369 Speaker 2: One of you did. So, Gary wrote back after we 555 00:22:57,380 --> 00:23:01,589 Speaker 2: did our, why is hr ghosting me after an interview episode? 556 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 2: And this time he is another question, Gary says that 557 00:23:05,170 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: he got past the interview submitted document 558 00:23:08,364 --> 00:23:11,944 Speaker 2: that were required for background screening checks. Then he was 559 00:23:11,954 --> 00:23:16,425 Speaker 2: given an indicative job offer. Ok. So according to him, 560 00:23:16,435 --> 00:23:20,694 Speaker 2: senior management approval was sought and then the indicative job 561 00:23:20,704 --> 00:23:24,295 Speaker 2: offer was suddenly withdrawn by now, he had spent five 562 00:23:24,305 --> 00:23:27,574 Speaker 2: months on this job application and was feeling quite confident 563 00:23:27,584 --> 00:23:30,155 Speaker 2: that he would get the job. So, understandably, Gary is 564 00:23:30,165 --> 00:23:33,415 Speaker 2: disappointed and felt like he wasted five months on this. 565 00:23:33,939 --> 00:23:37,020 Speaker 2: He wants to know what could possibly be the reason 566 00:23:37,030 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 2: for this indicative job offered to be retracted and was 567 00:23:40,130 --> 00:23:43,650 Speaker 2: there anything he could have done? Oh, wow. Ok. Firstly 568 00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:46,698 Speaker 2: for Gary's situation going through five months almost at the 569 00:23:46,709 --> 00:23:49,369 Speaker 2: finish line but not get it. It really doesn't feel good. No, 570 00:23:49,380 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: it doesn't. So if Gary, as you're listening in, I 571 00:23:51,290 --> 00:23:53,669 Speaker 2: hope you didn't quit your job. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah, 572 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 2: I hope you didn't quit your job because these things 573 00:23:55,449 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: will happen. And as like what you said, right, Tiffany, 574 00:23:58,050 --> 00:24:01,189 Speaker 2: the offer was indicative is still subject to withdrawals and 575 00:24:01,199 --> 00:24:02,589 Speaker 2: there are sometimes many reasons why 576 00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 2: an indicative offer doesn't go through. Right? One of which 577 00:24:06,290 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 2: is maybe Gary didn't pass the reference check because that's 578 00:24:09,410 --> 00:24:11,219 Speaker 2: usually one of the last things to do. So maybe 579 00:24:11,229 --> 00:24:13,839 Speaker 2: the reference check didn't work to his favor and then 580 00:24:13,849 --> 00:24:16,510 Speaker 2: they decided to not proceed with him. Many other reasons 581 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,239 Speaker 2: could also include things like having the budget for the 582 00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:20,958 Speaker 2: position close taken away. 583 00:24:21,239 --> 00:24:23,169 Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds like a long time, five months 584 00:24:23,180 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 2: to get this position, maybe the company might have felt 585 00:24:25,650 --> 00:24:28,430 Speaker 2: that they don't need this person, ok? Because things could 586 00:24:28,439 --> 00:24:30,819 Speaker 2: have changed within the five months. That's right. And of course, 587 00:24:30,829 --> 00:24:34,859 Speaker 2: sometimes restructuring within the organization, there could be a hiring freeze. 588 00:24:35,050 --> 00:24:37,709 Speaker 2: And so all of these could affect the indicative offer 589 00:24:37,719 --> 00:24:41,750 Speaker 2: being taken away. But why would companies even give an 590 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,579 Speaker 2: indicative job offer without actually being sure in the first place, 591 00:24:45,599 --> 00:24:48,780 Speaker 2: the time between an indicative offer and the employment 592 00:24:48,868 --> 00:24:50,547 Speaker 2: for itself, it's supposed to be short, it shouldn't be 593 00:24:50,557 --> 00:24:52,708 Speaker 2: that long and they want to give you the indicative 594 00:24:52,718 --> 00:24:55,177 Speaker 2: offer so that you are kind of prepared to accept 595 00:24:55,186 --> 00:24:57,358 Speaker 2: it later on. So you kind of get your heart ready, 596 00:24:57,378 --> 00:24:59,057 Speaker 2: you start to think about your plans of how to 597 00:24:59,067 --> 00:25:01,177 Speaker 2: exit from your current role. How do you resign from 598 00:25:01,186 --> 00:25:03,328 Speaker 2: current role? I think they want to do all of 599 00:25:03,338 --> 00:25:06,037 Speaker 2: these things to get you prepared. Of course, maybe because 600 00:25:06,047 --> 00:25:09,328 Speaker 2: the last step could take a little bit longer. So actually, 601 00:25:09,338 --> 00:25:11,128 Speaker 2: it's not supposed to take longer, supposed to be fast. 602 00:25:11,218 --> 00:25:13,478 Speaker 2: So they still want to tell you that. Ok, you're 603 00:25:13,488 --> 00:25:16,397 Speaker 2: almost there already. Ok. Yeah, because these things don't get 604 00:25:16,494 --> 00:25:19,365 Speaker 2: talked about early on in the interview process, right? But 605 00:25:19,395 --> 00:25:21,836 Speaker 2: I say it's very unfortunate. Again, most of the time 606 00:25:21,845 --> 00:25:24,406 Speaker 2: I would say indicative offers, they do come true. They 607 00:25:24,416 --> 00:25:27,754 Speaker 2: do follow up happen and materialize into concrete job offers. 608 00:25:28,046 --> 00:25:30,956 Speaker 2: But it's the exception that happens. And that's why I said, 609 00:25:30,965 --> 00:25:33,125 Speaker 2: I hope that Gary didn't quit his job. Yeah. Could 610 00:25:33,135 --> 00:25:36,145 Speaker 2: he have done something different? I guess, like, could he 611 00:25:36,156 --> 00:25:39,326 Speaker 2: have gotten something maybe a bit more on paper? Even 612 00:25:39,336 --> 00:25:41,365 Speaker 2: if you get something on paper? Firstly, a lot of 613 00:25:41,375 --> 00:25:43,755 Speaker 2: hr people, they would not put an indicative offer on paper. 614 00:25:44,124 --> 00:25:46,354 Speaker 2: It will probably be like verbal, verbal, right? And I 615 00:25:46,364 --> 00:25:48,803 Speaker 2: think there's very little that Gary could have done for himself. 616 00:25:48,813 --> 00:25:51,593 Speaker 2: To be honest. The only thing I would say maybe 617 00:25:51,604 --> 00:25:53,812 Speaker 2: if the reference check was the issue and this is 618 00:25:53,823 --> 00:25:55,773 Speaker 2: really for everyone who's even in the midst of a 619 00:25:55,784 --> 00:25:58,783 Speaker 2: job search now and you have given a referee's contact 620 00:25:58,792 --> 00:26:02,453 Speaker 2: details to the interviewing company, you should prepare your referees, 621 00:26:02,792 --> 00:26:04,583 Speaker 2: you should contact them and tell them that someone is 622 00:26:04,593 --> 00:26:06,463 Speaker 2: going to call you. Maybe you could say something for me. 623 00:26:06,473 --> 00:26:08,734 Speaker 2: Sometimes we don't prepare our referees and they may not 624 00:26:08,744 --> 00:26:11,104 Speaker 2: answer the phone, they may not reply to the email. 625 00:26:11,114 --> 00:26:11,663 Speaker 2: So this is 626 00:26:11,751 --> 00:26:15,411 Speaker 2: where preparing your referees is pretty important. Ok, Gary, once again, 627 00:26:15,421 --> 00:26:17,641 Speaker 2: we are sorry that you are in this position. We 628 00:26:17,651 --> 00:26:20,342 Speaker 2: hope that things will look up for you if you 629 00:26:20,352 --> 00:26:23,452 Speaker 2: have any other questions that you would like, Gerald to answer, 630 00:26:23,462 --> 00:26:25,732 Speaker 2: send them to us big or small. We are here 631 00:26:25,741 --> 00:26:27,972 Speaker 2: to help you just to work through some of these 632 00:26:27,982 --> 00:26:30,661 Speaker 2: questions that you might have. We're at CN A podcasts 633 00:26:30,671 --> 00:26:33,411 Speaker 2: at mediacorp.com dot SG. And you can also find us 634 00:26:33,421 --> 00:26:37,391 Speaker 2: on Spotify Apple Podcasts or youtube where a video version 635 00:26:37,401 --> 00:26:39,302 Speaker 2: of this A ma is at 636 00:26:39,530 --> 00:26:42,469 Speaker 2: the team behind the work it podcast is Christina Robert 637 00:26:42,479 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 2: Joan Chan, Jaini Johari, Sa Wen and Toh Yan Yan 638 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,260 Speaker 2: sound mixing is by Cary Lim video by Haida Amin. 639 00:26:50,270 --> 00:26:53,510 Speaker 2: I'm Gerald and I'm Tiffany. Have a good work week ahead. 640 00:26:56,030 --> 00:26:56,149 Speaker 2: Ok?