Speaker 1: Hey Sony Welcome back to another episode of men, explain
Speaker 1: this time around. I feel a slightly touchy topic that
Speaker 1: we're going to delve into financial intimacy.
Speaker 1: How much do you tell your partner what is considered? Okay,
Speaker 1: what should we not say? I don't know. I've got
Speaker 1: so many questions in my mind right now and with
Speaker 1: me today we've got the work salaryman. Welcome guys, Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having us tell us more about yourself.
Speaker 1: You can introduce yourself to our audience too. So my
Speaker 1: name is Remy, I write the stuff for and
Speaker 2: my name is wei chun, I typically draw, but now
Speaker 2: also do other stuff like the video stuff and sometimes
Speaker 2: all right. But with women's expert help.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I mean of course we know that you
Speaker 1: have a huge social media presence but we hardly get
Speaker 1: to sit down with the both of you to chat.
Speaker 1: The last time I chatted with you guys was on
Speaker 1: zoom actually very
Speaker 2: nervous and very scary. But
Speaker 1: why was it that
Speaker 2: you don't have much time on the radio? It's always
Speaker 2: like 10, 10, 15 minute segment then it feels like
Speaker 2: with financial stuff like you need to cover all your
Speaker 2: bases unless like unless you missed something out and then
Speaker 2: also you and joe kim's energy. Quite intimidating to us.
Speaker 2: I think because you are so like polished Effervescence.
Speaker 2: Just pure energy. And it was that it was very
Speaker 2: scary
Speaker 1: when you say a lesson like bubbly
Speaker 2: bubbly. Alright. You put that thing inside the water. Your energy.
Speaker 2: I think that you
Speaker 1: would like a reduction. And how would you describe your
Speaker 1: energy then, in in that metaphorical sense.
Speaker 2: Turtle,
Speaker 1: slow and
Speaker 2: nautical. There's good things about that also. But you know,
Speaker 2: for radio, I was like, well that's not good.
Speaker 1: Okay, try
Speaker 2: my hyper voice and it's still you and joking. Just
Speaker 1: okay, you got to give us some some hype voice
Speaker 1: and energy. Okay, we'll try to try. Okay, we're going
Speaker 1: to kick things off right here. Now, financial intimacy. I
Speaker 1: mean that is a broad topic here. Today. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to ask you first, what are your relationship status
Speaker 1: is actually? Let's start with you. So I am renting
Speaker 1: a apartment with my my girlfriend together for five years
Speaker 2: I think because your girlfriend was your primary schools,
Speaker 1: secondary school.
Speaker 2: Secondary school was fantastic. How many people got to date
Speaker 2: the second?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we haven't been dating since high school.
Speaker 1: I was only cool enough to date her in my twenties. Okay.
Speaker 1: Only passed the vibe. Check. Yes, yes, yes. Okay,
Speaker 2: check on network check.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I think
Speaker 2: I'm
Speaker 1: just Yeah, just messengers messages.
Speaker 2: I'm married. My my wife was actually my, my first
Speaker 2: Serious girlfriend and I met her in university. So that
Speaker 2: was 20 2010. We became attached. It's been a while.
Speaker 2: We're older couple. I
Speaker 1: mean you guys have been through so much together over
Speaker 1: the past few years and you guys obviously would talk
Speaker 1: about your financial status as well, right? Seeing what you
Speaker 1: do and all that. Okay, so also I think for
Speaker 1: the benefit of our audience, tell us a bit about
Speaker 1: your channel and what you guys do just very briefly.
Speaker 2: So we run this blog or social media page called
Speaker 2: the work salaryman, basically what we try to do is
Speaker 2: that we try to make the boring and often difficult
Speaker 2: topic of personal finance a bit more interesting and also
Speaker 2: easy to understand. So
Speaker 2: we don't just talk about financial stuff. Also sometimes we
Speaker 2: do like because your personal, your finances does over like
Speaker 2: with a lot of other areas of life, like relationships,
Speaker 2: especially your parents, your loved ones, your siblings and all
Speaker 2: that stuff, you know? So there's a lot of other
Speaker 2: stuff to talk about also. So it's not just about
Speaker 2: maximizing the amount of money you earn and keep. Its
Speaker 2: also about what do you want in life, how much
Speaker 2: money do you need and why are you working so
Speaker 2: hard for something? You know, like it's all these other
Speaker 2: topics surrounding money that
Speaker 2: also have to be talked alongside. Just the mathematical objective
Speaker 2: aspects of earning money.
Speaker 1: I think like your, your values, your philosophy, you know,
Speaker 1: historical things that shape, how other people might think about money.
Speaker 1: So all these things come into play when you consider
Speaker 1: like how are you going to handle your finance?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean just like you manage your money, you've
Speaker 1: got to manage the people around you as well when
Speaker 1: it comes to that. Right? So the question is, how
Speaker 1: much do you tell your partner about your finances? How
Speaker 1: much do you guys share between each other as a
Speaker 1: couple who wants to start first?
Speaker 2: Really will start first?
Speaker 1: I first. Okay. I think when it comes to my girlfriend,
Speaker 1: I think I'll tell her like as much as she
Speaker 1: wants to know. Yeah. But I think
Speaker 1: that really depends, you know like from couple to couple
Speaker 1: what the other person actually wants to know because different
Speaker 1: people have different knowledge on finances. My girlfriend, she's quiet,
Speaker 1: she's quite well versed in the financial space, what industry?
Speaker 1: She's a real estate agent. So I mean for example
Speaker 1: she would need to know like people's whether or not
Speaker 1: they can afford a property. You know how much, you
Speaker 1: know they might be able to pay for mortgage. Everyone
Speaker 1: and all these often come finances. So she knows about
Speaker 1: finances and
Speaker 1: whenever she has questions, she just asked me, oh you
Speaker 1: know how much can you afford to pay for rent
Speaker 1: this month or like what's the most expensive place we
Speaker 1: could possibly get. And then I just tell her sometimes
Speaker 1: we she can do the math and figure it out
Speaker 1: in some way because she also invest in like the
Speaker 1: stock market. And so we were like
Speaker 1: sometimes go on long walks and like a bit about
Speaker 1: how the market is doing. That's what you do on
Speaker 1: your long walks you about money. I bit about people
Speaker 1: straight up, you know so much about like the macroeconomic conditions.
Speaker 1: Oh no. You know
Speaker 2: that's what it takes today.
Speaker 1: That's 100 is down 15%. Oh man. How's everything doing?
Speaker 1: I literally cannot really at this point. I
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, of course we do other stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Maybe like such as 20%. Okay. Don't don't
Speaker 1: put too much. You're stressing me out. This is men explaining,
Speaker 1: explaining to do. All right, right. You know, it's not
Speaker 1: the it's not the only thing we do.
Speaker 2: But do you discuss the amount of money that you
Speaker 1: have? That was my next question.
Speaker 1: What do we do? We do?
Speaker 2: So you just show her to her.
Speaker 1: No, I don't show her. Just say like, oh, you
Speaker 1: know what your monthly average on average because she's arrest agent.
Speaker 1: There are, there are like dry months and they're like
Speaker 1: that they raced up and down. So I mean, she'll
Speaker 1: tell me this man was a bad month for me.
Speaker 1: You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't close like a lot of deals also to
Speaker 1: pay for the car. There's a lot of marketing costs
Speaker 1: now coming okay. This man was okay man for me.
Speaker 1: You know, I did a lot of freelance articles,
Speaker 2: but don't show the bank account. Don't show the number.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean that's what this interview and now,
Speaker 1: by the way, this is like you need like receipts
Speaker 1: right for them. But I bought you flowers. Here's a receipt.
Speaker 1: You don't do that right? You do that. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't show receipt but we do tell each other
Speaker 2: what our network. I mean if she asked me I
Speaker 2: will tell her
Speaker 1: you will you will show
Speaker 2: it's not like something that I hired her. She asked
Speaker 2: me recently how much money I have and I just
Speaker 2: tell her
Speaker 1: did you give her like a vague idea or it's
Speaker 1: pretty close to the truth.
Speaker 2: It's pretty close. Yeah. I mean it's not
Speaker 1: a married couple. I mean these are things you have
Speaker 1: to
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 2: mean that's just cash a council because we also invest.
Speaker 2: So there's another amount up there. So but I think
Speaker 2: she's just asking in terms of like because right now
Speaker 2: she here that the market is going down whether she
Speaker 2: should invest. And then she's asking in terms of how
Speaker 2: much cash should I keep and when I'm holding too
Speaker 2: much cash for her own sake. So I think our
Speaker 2: approach is sort of like we have
Speaker 2: we have like a little like a sense of joint
Speaker 2: account is coming into our relationship really but not a
Speaker 2: full joint account.
Speaker 1: So you don't have a joint account.
Speaker 2: We do not but we do share expenses. There's this
Speaker 2: but that we use called split wise and we've been
Speaker 2: using it since we're university. You see what it does
Speaker 2: is that if I pay for something right I just
Speaker 2: put
Speaker 2: now and it will tell you keep track of everything
Speaker 2: and divide everything. So at the end of the month
Speaker 2: then we'll see, or you owe me 400 this monday
Speaker 2: we transfer,
Speaker 1: wow, that is so, you know, I honestly, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at our crew right now and everyone's just like, question
Speaker 1: marks going at the pace is right now, I don't
Speaker 1: know whether okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but because,
Speaker 1: you know, you dabble in media, but you also dabble
Speaker 1: in finance and,
Speaker 1: and finance is a part of your everyday life, do
Speaker 1: you think that people in the finance sector would be
Speaker 1: more well versed in communicating such things with their partners
Speaker 1: versus people who are not in financial industries, they may
Speaker 1: find it difficult to even start that kind of conversation
Speaker 1: in the first place, you know,
Speaker 2: I think, no, I think because like ultimately when you're
Speaker 2: communicating about finance, um it channels through the relationship, so
Speaker 2: even if you're a finance professional and by your relationship
Speaker 2: is not a,
Speaker 2: at a good open place, you also cannot even broach it,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if I know all the terms if
Speaker 2: my approach the relationship is not right, and that's what
Speaker 2: is channeling the money right? Then also cannot really have
Speaker 2: a good proper combo, right?
Speaker 1: You think sometimes like finance professionals can have like the
Speaker 1: curse of knowledge, like they know a lot of like,
Speaker 1: like deep, deep stuff about like money and stuff actually
Speaker 1: when you need to communicate to non finance people on
Speaker 1: a normal level. I think they often struggle.
Speaker 1: So why then do you think people and couples find
Speaker 1: it difficult to talk about money with their loved ones?
Speaker 1: And we're not even talking about just relationships. Sometimes it
Speaker 1: could also be family that we find it challenging to
Speaker 1: speak about. Why do you think that's the case? I
Speaker 1: think
Speaker 1: number one, I think in in some like asian societies,
Speaker 1: like maybe hours, like you talk about money, it can
Speaker 1: be seen like, like you're showing off, you're showing off
Speaker 1: like you're being very calculated or other times I think
Speaker 1: there were a whole bunch of local dramas I remember
Speaker 1: in the past like they just portray like whenever the
Speaker 1: kid asked the parents about money, they're trying to steal
Speaker 1: the wealth, you know? And then like sometimes
Speaker 1: the parents who watched that, they're thinking, oh my God,
Speaker 1: is this person trying to steal my wealth so that
Speaker 1: they're like strange subtext whenever you ask like,
Speaker 1: you know how much money you have in your CPF right,
Speaker 1: I almost expect like why you want to take my
Speaker 1: money is it? I mean that's not if you want
Speaker 1: to have an open conversation about money because if I
Speaker 1: do not know like how much of your CPF, I
Speaker 1: don't know how much I might want to give to
Speaker 1: you or whether or not you need money or whether
Speaker 1: or not,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm giving money by actually you don't actually
Speaker 1: wear rich. Right. Right. I get it. But there's so
Speaker 1: much thinking going on back there. Maybe I
Speaker 2: think a lot of it attached to egos or like
Speaker 2: because you would think like your network is attached to
Speaker 2: who you are as a person and like how accomplished
Speaker 2: you were, how successful you are. So I think like
Speaker 2: for a parent to review that kind of thing, that
Speaker 2: can be quite vulnerable that I feel like my dad
Speaker 2: or my mom has never taken me aside to say
Speaker 2: I got this amount left. So you gotta prepare, you know,
Speaker 2: something like that. It just feels like maybe it's an
Speaker 2: asian culture thing. Like you don't want to show your
Speaker 2: vulnerability or that you are fallible. And then he says
Speaker 2: because as a parent you don't want to do that,
Speaker 2: especially when you're young, you want to be there to
Speaker 2: protect and stuff. But actually a lot of times
Speaker 2: I heard this quote from rick and morty, like, like
Speaker 2: parents are just kids having kids, they're figuring out as
Speaker 2: they go along. I think back to where my dad
Speaker 2: and mom had their first kids younger than me now.
Speaker 2: So they're just figuring out when they are liable to
Speaker 2: be these things inside that they might be insecure. I
Speaker 2: think that's the same reason why also
Speaker 2: feel a bit sometimes like reluctant to talk about finances
Speaker 2: with my loved one also, I mean we try to
Speaker 2: be open, but it's always ego and insecurity that makes
Speaker 2: it difficult
Speaker 1: and sometimes I feel like we tend, we try to
Speaker 1: downplay it as well. I don't know if you've ever
Speaker 1: experienced this in, like, let's say chinese new year reunion
Speaker 1: sort of setting, right?
Speaker 1: Sometimes I go, maybe if I got a new car
Speaker 1: doesn't mean even anything, like I
Speaker 2: just need to change my car, but
Speaker 1: you drive a new car to your relative's place. People
Speaker 1: say regina rich and we're like, oh no, actually no.
Speaker 1: Then you try to
Speaker 2: downplay
Speaker 1: exactly.
Speaker 1: Okay, so then my next question is at what stage
Speaker 1: of your relationship did you decide to share your financial
Speaker 1: situation with your partner? Like when did you guys start
Speaker 1: to share this information with each other?
Speaker 2: I think the like beyond just the technical finance bit
Speaker 2: of like how much money I have, how much I'm
Speaker 2: going to turn right. I think couples do need to align,
Speaker 2: especially early on when it comes to projection of money
Speaker 2: because actually projection of money, it's not just money, it's
Speaker 2: projection of
Speaker 2: what, who you want to be in the future and
Speaker 2: how are you going to spend your money? Which is
Speaker 2: a way of expression right? Like there's nothing wrong with
Speaker 2: wanting a nice Lamborghini and landed property, but if that's
Speaker 2: what you want to say it. So I also have
Speaker 2: a
Speaker 2: indication of who you are
Speaker 1: go for the
Speaker 2: same goal or like I know this is who I'm
Speaker 2: going to be dating and it's important because you also
Speaker 2: I think a lot of situations it actually helps if
Speaker 2: you and your partner on the same wavelength when it
Speaker 2: comes to the kind of person. So if I go
Speaker 2: on a holiday and the kind of holiday I want
Speaker 2: to go on is like like
Speaker 2: Like everything five star you
Speaker 1: know I
Speaker 2: prefer to spend very conservative. I like the rough and
Speaker 2: tumble nece. I like the fact that I get good
Speaker 2: deals then not not compatible you can't have these adventures
Speaker 2: together and not that that's a bad thing. Some couples
Speaker 2: can make it work. But if you want somebody to
Speaker 2: go with you and like it on the same level
Speaker 2: as it relates to money, it has to be talked about.
Speaker 2: So when it comes to sharing the final like so
Speaker 2: if you settle that
Speaker 2: then when it comes to like showing each other the
Speaker 2: account I think there are also unavoidable if you want
Speaker 2: to get a house together unless you're both very rich
Speaker 2: and then the purchases nothing to your. But if you
Speaker 2: want to buy a house together and it's going to
Speaker 2: cost 200 K. If I don't know my partner can
Speaker 2: pay the down payment and then that's the issue right?
Speaker 2: So it will have to happen,
Speaker 2: me and my wife has a joint account now but
Speaker 2: we only have a joint account because we gotta re
Speaker 2: mortgage on our house loan recently for today advantage of
Speaker 2: better interest rate. So the banks say you only a
Speaker 2: joint account and we just reluctantly go and
Speaker 1: get, but now that we
Speaker 2: get,
Speaker 2: I'm like maybe there's some used to it. We don't
Speaker 2: have to put everything in the app anymore.
Speaker 1: True. So the joint account is also used not just that,
Speaker 1: but for like daily expenses for
Speaker 2: one to now. Actually I want to say can we
Speaker 2: just use the joint? So we put our, because we
Speaker 2: share groceries,
Speaker 1: exactly what I mean,
Speaker 2: 500 every month. We just, you put 100
Speaker 2: and then we just spend from that extra then we
Speaker 2: buy nice things. I buy a new fan or
Speaker 1: whatever she's like
Speaker 2: and I used to be the one relationships are no,
Speaker 2: I want to share my own life. I need my
Speaker 2: freedom
Speaker 1: right?
Speaker 2: But now I'm like, can you just do it for
Speaker 2: convenience
Speaker 1: because because
Speaker 2: as a young person in the relationship, I never wanted
Speaker 2: to feel like
Speaker 2: I'm giving up my freedom to be with you. But
Speaker 2: actually that is what the relationship is in some extent,
Speaker 2: you know, so financially maybe there has to reflect and
Speaker 2: I think as we get older right, we are gonna
Speaker 2: let it creep into our lives and joint accounts will
Speaker 2: become bigger and bigger.
Speaker 1: So joint account with your partners. One thing do any
Speaker 1: of you guys have joint accounts ever with your parents
Speaker 1: only. My dad, he gave me pocket money. One wage
Speaker 1: on account. I don't put any money. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's the only time
Speaker 2: my mom has a savings thing for me. Like she
Speaker 2: just put money in it whenever she has money. So
Speaker 2: from Malaysia, she opened the bank and I remember traveling
Speaker 2: across the course with her. Then we just go to
Speaker 2: the bank specially just to go to bank. We cross cross, right,
Speaker 2: She opened account for me. Then she was just talking
Speaker 2: money in there. But I'm naturally a very like
Speaker 2: savy person. So I just assume I don't have the
Speaker 2: account
Speaker 1: frugal,
Speaker 2: frugal. I
Speaker 1: also can
Speaker 2: I assume I don't have the account and I try
Speaker 2: to learn everything on my own.
Speaker 1: Okay. But
Speaker 2: maybe there's some inheritance
Speaker 1: before. You know it. You're like, hey, I have this
Speaker 1: chunk of money. I never
Speaker 2: Maybe $5,000
Speaker 1: Or 50. You never know. Okay. So then, you know,
Speaker 1: I think on that note, right with the joint account
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. I think that is
Speaker 1: a very normal progression for a lot of couples who
Speaker 1: are serious with each other.
Speaker 1: Have you? However, I'm not sure you're comfortable with sharing
Speaker 1: this on, on this channel. Have you lied about anything
Speaker 1: to your partner before in regards to spending
Speaker 2: like
Speaker 1: something and you have not
Speaker 2: just say I want, I just bought a new bike
Speaker 2: and I just, here it is, I bought it a
Speaker 1: bike or bicycle
Speaker 2: Bicycle, affordable bicycle but it's not cheap. It's okay on $3,000.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So I like the fact that we have our own
Speaker 2: accounts and that I can buy one like it's like a,
Speaker 2: it's like some people have a mean joint account then
Speaker 2: offer that they have fund accounts that they control themselves, right?
Speaker 2: But for us it's more like inverse like we have
Speaker 2: a joint account via the app and also this account
Speaker 2: for mortgage servicing. But the main thing is our fun
Speaker 2: fun fund,
Speaker 1: right? Your fund fund.
Speaker 2: So if we have kids probably will change, we'll put
Speaker 2: something confirmed.
Speaker 1: Is that the pipeline?
Speaker 2: I think so. I don't know confidence. You see
Speaker 1: she's gonna comment
Speaker 2: but when it comes to lying, I just never felt
Speaker 2: like it was necessary because we never combine.
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just, there's a very like common trope where like
Speaker 2: the husband want to buy something then hide from the
Speaker 2: wife especially I'm on all these facebook groups on like,
Speaker 2: like bicycle stuff and it's not, the joke is always
Speaker 2: like hide from my wife or like
Speaker 2: anyone want to help me keep in the house. They're
Speaker 2: coming right? So my wife don't know it's a joke.
Speaker 2: It's a
Speaker 1: joke. I
Speaker 2: completely don't understand that maybe this is a young person
Speaker 1: actually done that actually. But I also high with the bicycle.
Speaker 1: I really do not because of money reason because like
Speaker 1: because we have too many bags in the house. Right?
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 2: now
Speaker 1: we have four bicycles in the house. That's not so bad. Okay,
Speaker 1: I did affordable. They're all like, oh my God. So
Speaker 1: what I did was I bought the stuff from chain
Speaker 1: reaction cycles. Really good service by the way. How many
Speaker 1: the ads were dropping in this episode? But yeah, here
Speaker 1: we go. When it came. I just hit the back
Speaker 1: under the bit because like, you know, I didn't know this. Yeah.
Speaker 2: What would you do that?
Speaker 1: I mean, because I didn't ask her because she also
Speaker 1: pays rent the house. Right? So
Speaker 2: space,
Speaker 1: space, space thing. So later on in the a few
Speaker 1: months later I said, do you think I can have
Speaker 1: a new bicycle? And she said, okay. Just some
Speaker 1: what was the reaction? I mean, she was, I think she,
Speaker 1: I think she did something like that, but she was
Speaker 1: pretty cool with it. I mean after all it's my
Speaker 1: money and I have a feeling she already knew it
Speaker 1: was under the bit to be honest. I think she
Speaker 1: probably was vacuuming one day. She was like, what is this?
Speaker 1: It must be, yeah, she's like, let me test the
Speaker 1: waters and
Speaker 2: Confess exactly two years later. Okay,
Speaker 1: so these are, these are like not so dramatic things.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you, do you
Speaker 2: have you lied before about anything? Actually,
Speaker 1: no. So for jerry and I like, we don't really
Speaker 1: hide things. He's very open because he also has a
Speaker 1: passion for for bikes. Oh no, I know he likes
Speaker 1: mountain bike, road bike. I don't know what like and
Speaker 1: also wine. He has a passion for wine and you
Speaker 1: know how that is right? I
Speaker 2: don't know how that, how is that?
Speaker 1: It's an expensive hobby. Let me tell you it is.
Speaker 1: So the thing is he's not afraid to tell me what,
Speaker 1: you know, he's up to what he's buying and all that.
Speaker 1: Sometimes he doesn't really tell me maybe the cost of
Speaker 1: this bottle for example, maybe they can get pretty expensive,
Speaker 1: but I can roughly guess but we're at the stage
Speaker 1: where you know, I think we have similar interests. We
Speaker 1: have similar ideas of how to enjoy life, you know,
Speaker 1: and these are just his interest. I don't have an
Speaker 1: issue with it for me. I'm very open with him. Also,
Speaker 1: once in a while if I decide to buy like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, nice bag or like a pair of shoes,
Speaker 1: I think he knows roughly what the cost of these
Speaker 1: things are outside. So he noticed us, he'll be like,
Speaker 1: oh this is cute
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, cute conversation ends. They're
Speaker 2: asking, I mean he's just being nice or is he
Speaker 2: is that stank of like you spend money on this thing.
Speaker 2: There's never
Speaker 1: but you can afford it. I'm not asking him to
Speaker 1: buy for me that's one
Speaker 2: joint account here.
Speaker 1: There's no joint account we do however we split like
Speaker 1: you know like grocery stuff and all that. Or like
Speaker 1: household essential stuff
Speaker 2: like a banker
Speaker 1: like we we don't split in a way like like
Speaker 1: for example if he goes to buy stuff like several
Speaker 1: times then the next round I will go and get
Speaker 1: you know that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: So it's not really like to split the cost is
Speaker 2: just like
Speaker 1: we take turns. Yeah that's what I mean. So we
Speaker 1: don't go like look at the receipt, okay we're going
Speaker 1: to split this in, we just take turns.
Speaker 2: I used to do that my my my girlfriend slash
Speaker 2: wife a lot because I was always very frugal like
Speaker 2: because I
Speaker 1: just good
Speaker 2: because when I graduated you need to pay on my
Speaker 2: you know, so I became the most
Speaker 2: and she always makes fun of me for it now.
Speaker 2: But last time we did argue over it because I
Speaker 2: was quite difficult. But nowadays also like as our finances
Speaker 2: are healthier.
Speaker 2: Yeah I find it way easier to go $20 thai
Speaker 2: food up
Speaker 1: you
Speaker 2: pay for it. But there's still that niggling feeling but
Speaker 2: I hope that we can move past that so that
Speaker 2: there's some joint account that's where we can just draw
Speaker 2: from that pool. But also like when it comes to
Speaker 2: food and stuff, I'm sorry if I'm skipping ahead. Also
Speaker 2: like it's also like I eat a lot more.
Speaker 2: She barely eats usually eat a bit and I can
Speaker 2: eat the rest of mine. So how is that fair?
Speaker 2: For example, like, I don't know if we argue about it,
Speaker 2: but in my head right, the argument will go something
Speaker 2: like this. It would be like, she would say, can
Speaker 2: you pay more because you ate like 60, of everything
Speaker 2: now I say, but I didn't order, okay, I'm helping
Speaker 2: you clear your plate, we order one.
Speaker 2: So the fairness of that also, I don't know if
Speaker 2: there's a right or wrong and I also a bit
Speaker 2: scared to say people cancel me for being this or that,
Speaker 2: but that's just what we do. Usually, you know,
Speaker 1: it's similar in a way where if you go for
Speaker 1: dinner with a group of friends and there's like six
Speaker 1: of you and you didn't really eat anything. But everyone else,
Speaker 1: someone
Speaker 2: like you, but
Speaker 1: You know one thing and then
Speaker 2: to pay for €5 like I'll be like,
Speaker 1: oh,
Speaker 2: last time I know, I don't quite
Speaker 1: know, but it's true. Like sometimes you wonder, right, these
Speaker 1: are certain questions, okay, but here's the thing in the
Speaker 1: household for example, one person is generally going to out
Speaker 1: earn the other. I don't know if that's the case
Speaker 2: unless you're in the same thing the whole way, which
Speaker 2: is very hard to
Speaker 1: match exactly.
Speaker 2: You deny the raise from your boss just because they
Speaker 2: don't know what happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so one person at any one point, even though I
Speaker 1: know we're both
Speaker 1: in industry, all in industries where it can be quite volatile,
Speaker 1: you know, it can be up and down some months
Speaker 1: and for for your wife, I'm not sure what she does.
Speaker 2: She's a contemplative legal.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's quite
Speaker 2: stable.
Speaker 1: So the saying that whoever brings in the gold makes
Speaker 1: the rules and
Speaker 2: stuff like that, Do
Speaker 1: you feel that that kind of energy at home, like
Speaker 1: sometimes maybe as the breadwinner
Speaker 1: or something, do you subconsciously act like you're the boss
Speaker 1: or do you? I don't know thoughts. I think it
Speaker 1: depends on like the dynamics of the relationship and also
Speaker 1: like how much the person who earns more? How much more,
Speaker 1: I mean like how much power they give themselves because
Speaker 1: they earn more money for our relationship
Speaker 2: because
Speaker 1: I think we earn like roughly the same amount.
Speaker 1: I think the principle is like you go spend on
Speaker 1: your thing, I spend on my thing as long as
Speaker 1: not beyond your means, you're in the clear, but if
Speaker 1: you're going to spend beyond your means and like I'm involved,
Speaker 1: then I want to be part of the conversation as well. Right?
Speaker 1: So for example, like this fictional, let's say, my girlfriend
Speaker 1: wants to buy a $2 million
Speaker 2: condo,
Speaker 1: they'll be like, okay, first of all, like, can you
Speaker 1: pay your share if you cannot, that means I have
Speaker 1: to step in. Right? So it's the share 50 50.
Speaker 1: That's the question is the share 50 50 I think
Speaker 1: right now, I would think I would assume. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're terrible.
Speaker 1: What amount? So you go by percentage? Like Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think like number one, the at the end of the
Speaker 1: like the person who pays the most should decide like
Speaker 1: how much they want to, how much you want to
Speaker 1: spend on your property. I will not
Speaker 1: pay more to enable my partner to live beyond our means.
Speaker 1: But what I'll try to do is like to spend
Speaker 1: money that is within my means are so comfortable. That
Speaker 1: makes sense to her, right? So
Speaker 2: if you spend, if you earn double her salary, would
Speaker 2: you pay more for the condo that you're buying
Speaker 1: together
Speaker 1: This fictional once again fictional. Once again, I think I
Speaker 1: will pay more. But I would like to have that
Speaker 1: discretion on how much more. So would you then decide like, okay,
Speaker 1: I will come in 70% and then you can come
Speaker 1: out 30%.
Speaker 2: You want to make
Speaker 1: that decision? Yeah. Especially if I'm the one paying more.
Speaker 1: But of course you can pay your end and okay,
Speaker 1: let's just buy something that we both like, okay, you
Speaker 2: Can draw a line in the house. Like this is
Speaker 2: your 30,
Speaker 1: you can stay in the kitchen because that's what you
Speaker 1: pay for. Oh no, no, no, it's not a gender thing.
Speaker 1: It's not cancer. You see that's it. I guess it's
Speaker 2: been a good thank you. Thank
Speaker 1: you. Thank you. It's the last episode
Speaker 2: on that note also like about arguing and whether you
Speaker 2: put that power, like I have actually done that and
Speaker 2: I'm not proud of it. But like sometimes in moments
Speaker 2: of
Speaker 1: argument, you know, like
Speaker 2: because like especially
Speaker 2: when you're losing the argument, you see your ground line.
Speaker 2: So the situation was that I was in university, I
Speaker 2: was doing my master's degree and then I was staying
Speaker 2: on the coastal this, I mean, right, so my girlfriend
Speaker 2: at the time, which is my wife now will come
Speaker 2: and stay with me from time to time. And then
Speaker 2: when we argue sometimes, right? I would I've said this before,
Speaker 2: I would say like, but I'm paying for this hospital.
Speaker 2: So you don't like it, Get out. I said that
Speaker 2: kind of thing and I'm not proud of it, but
Speaker 2: you know, like I was stupid and young and
Speaker 2: If we have arguments nowadays right now, the house is 5050,
Speaker 2: but if it wasn't also I something would stop me
Speaker 2: from going there. You know, and I think that is
Speaker 2: something that that would be difficult to control because when
Speaker 2: you're in an argument, you are irrational. You are looking
Speaker 1: for every
Speaker 2: leverage you can get, you know, so to have the
Speaker 2: additional factor of inequality in your relationship when it comes
Speaker 2: to things that you are building together that you might
Speaker 2: Put an argument, right? Makes it also it gives you
Speaker 2: another edge that you need to be careful about when
Speaker 2: it comes to this sort of thing for us, we
Speaker 2: split everything 5050 since we got together. Because I think
Speaker 2: my wife also is very into the whole like she
Speaker 2: wants to be her own person and she wants to
Speaker 2: feel like she's relying on me and
Speaker 2: I find that attractive. So it's not just I can
Speaker 2: save money or pay everything because there's the prevailing thing
Speaker 2: that men must pay more. Men must make the first
Speaker 2: movement must pay for dinner and stuff. But she never
Speaker 2: would let me do that on our first day, second
Speaker 2: day or whatever. You know, I like that too. Not
Speaker 2: just from the safe money point of view. Not from
Speaker 2: the same point of view at all, but just from
Speaker 2: I like independent this. I liked
Speaker 1: how are things with you and jeremy when it comes
Speaker 2: to the same,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm being interviewed by two very curious people.
Speaker 1: What's your question again? Sorry, do you and Jeremy like
Speaker 1: how you guys split stuff? Okay, so we're not married yet.
Speaker 1: So we don't we're not at the point where we
Speaker 1: really do that. I guess when it comes to
Speaker 1: like I mentioned the common stuff that we all we
Speaker 1: consume we share. We do this okay to just take
Speaker 1: turns to do it right. And also I think this
Speaker 1: was interesting because I had an espresso machine come in
Speaker 1: for for for a job and it was placed in
Speaker 1: his house, but when my apartment came, you know I
Speaker 1: said can I take the coffee machine?
Speaker 1: And he was like, but I really need the really
Speaker 1: the coffee machine to like how are we going to
Speaker 1: split this? Right? So we thought about it and he
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I'm going to buy you
Speaker 1: your own coffee machine. So he went and bought me
Speaker 1: a coffee machine. So in that sense we're both equal.
Speaker 1: We're both fair, we try to have the same things
Speaker 2: you buy one for him. He bound for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but mine was sponsored. So he got a sponsored
Speaker 1: then he bought me the lower tier one some more,
Speaker 1: you
Speaker 2: know,
Speaker 1: accounting for depreciation, right? That's why I press the button
Speaker 1: that opens up and I need to
Speaker 2: know he's
Speaker 1: saying, you know, I can't give you one of them
Speaker 1: value because I used
Speaker 2: to
Speaker 1: use called amortization or something because the
Speaker 1: Because people use ready, right? So maybe it's like 40% less.
Speaker 1: So maybe on his part, he's thinking, you know, he's
Speaker 2: a banker, he
Speaker 1: justified that decision. Please clarify that it's actually it's a
Speaker 1: fair value. Yeah. You actually met him. Yeah. Conference. Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1: I mean clearly for me as well. Like I think
Speaker 1: when we work
Speaker 1: if we're working towards something a little bit more serious,
Speaker 1: settling down, we do stay together quite a bit as well,
Speaker 1: even though I have my own apartment. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think these things are very serious topics that you
Speaker 1: definitely have to address as you get closer to marriage.
Speaker 1: But when you get married things changed drastically. I mean
Speaker 1: I think this is a question more for
Speaker 2: you. That's a great point because I think you have
Speaker 2: to be not open to it, but it's an inevitability
Speaker 2: that when you get closer to get more serious,
Speaker 2: you your your how you say you say financial intimacy,
Speaker 2: which is, it's like you spend time with money. So
Speaker 1: it's not
Speaker 2: like in a relationship
Speaker 1: it
Speaker 2: will change your dynamic and relationship with money will change also.
Speaker 2: And it sounds terrible to say that I will never
Speaker 2: let the idea of money sully our our love and
Speaker 2: whatever they're supposed to be sacred on some other realm,
Speaker 2: but it really is interwoven one. And the sooner you
Speaker 2: realize that
Speaker 2: the sooner you can have these conversations and then you
Speaker 2: sort out how to pass these things, you know, because
Speaker 2: like really I feel like a joint account, this is
Speaker 2: an inevitability that's coming my way. But if I told
Speaker 2: myself that as a university person like my uni days
Speaker 2: that they only have a joint account, I never I
Speaker 2: have my freedom. But that's what that's what a marriage is.
Speaker 2: That's what a deep relationship with somebody is like
Speaker 2: I remember when I got married, my mom told me
Speaker 2: that she said in chinese meaning you've finally grown up
Speaker 2: and I think what she meant was that the marriage
Speaker 2: that that get right meant that
Speaker 2: in this time I'm moving towards a thing where I'm
Speaker 2: no longer the most important thing in my life and
Speaker 2: that is important in a marriage and then later on
Speaker 2: to have kids because that's what is required of
Speaker 1: you to
Speaker 2: be a parent. You need to be able to put
Speaker 2: this person's life above your own. And I think marriage
Speaker 2: is a step towards that. So your finances
Speaker 2: must reflect
Speaker 1: that that's what
Speaker 2: commitment means. That you give up flexibility of your own
Speaker 2: thing because that's like one ft in the door, one
Speaker 2: ft out the door if my financial company separate. That
Speaker 2: also gives me the ability to just leave the moment
Speaker 2: something goes wrong. And I don't think that's good for
Speaker 2: a relationship or marriage together because
Speaker 2: that's how you solve problems, you stick in it and
Speaker 2: you talk it through and you suffer through the not
Speaker 2: nice bits if at the slight hint of not nice
Speaker 2: thing I'm out of here. I'm gonna stay in the
Speaker 2: hotel and never see me again. That's not a relationship
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: So I think you should change your name to the
Speaker 1: work relationship.
Speaker 2: It's not my
Speaker 1: lane. I just saying
Speaker 1: my
Speaker 2: opinion more financial less relationship,
Speaker 1: You know, but like you said it is very interlinked.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to to to step in here to
Speaker 1: throw in something that I just recalled a couple of
Speaker 1: days ago actually on our station, we're giving away cash
Speaker 1: price spot, $10,000. And we had a caller call in
Speaker 1: a couple actually young couple not married, their just their
Speaker 1: girlfriend boyfriend.
Speaker 1: So then you know, you're supposed to identify a song
Speaker 1: based on a one second snippet. So the girlfriend called him,
Speaker 1: but the boyfriend was the one that knew what the
Speaker 1: answer was. So we jokingly said, so how are you
Speaker 1: guys going to split this money? Right?
Speaker 1: And then you know, the boyfriend goes, oh, I guess
Speaker 1: I mean I hope I'll take it because I know
Speaker 1: the answer kind of thing. They were just joking around
Speaker 1: and then the girlfriend goes, but don't worry, I have
Speaker 1: access to his bank account so I'll take it right back.
Speaker 1: So we were like, we're like, oh, is this like
Speaker 1: something toxic? What are your thoughts on that? Like having
Speaker 1: full access to your partner's bank account before even getting married.
Speaker 2: But access means what like view or transfer you see,
Speaker 2: Do I have transfer, right? Is it like a google doc?
Speaker 2: I can edit or
Speaker 1: so she means she can accept it. Yeah, I googled.
Speaker 2: All
Speaker 1: right. Well
Speaker 2: that was very scary.
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 2: think maybe last time it is different where marriage meant
Speaker 2: a slightly different thing to what it means now,
Speaker 2: but for both to have access to one another. I
Speaker 2: don't understand how that would
Speaker 1: work. I think someone always said a lot of like
Speaker 1: scams or love scams and things like
Speaker 2: you're saying there's a lot of scam.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm not saying, I'm not saying the
Speaker 1: examples of love scam, I'm saying no to before you
Speaker 1: marry you just give, like
Speaker 1: complete access to the bank account. I mean that is
Speaker 2: like, that's
Speaker 1: awesome for a scammer.
Speaker 2: Why would I need complete access to my partner's account? Actually?
Speaker 2: Why would
Speaker 1: that's the thing? I don't know,
Speaker 2: I held him on the line,
Speaker 1: just ask you what is going
Speaker 2: on. Why?
Speaker 1: No, but I think, you know, at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, they they've got their own stuff going on.
Speaker 1: Maybe they work it out in their own sense,
Speaker 2: No
Speaker 1: clue. Just doing it for entertainment, maybe, perhaps you never
Speaker 1: know as well. Okay, so we've covered so much ground
Speaker 1: over the past few minutes. I'm not sure if it's
Speaker 1: almost been an
Speaker 1: our actually so from your point of view, any sort
Speaker 1: of advice you want to give our viewers out there,
Speaker 1: you know, young couples perhaps moving into more serious situations
Speaker 1: with their partners. I think it's very important to kind
Speaker 1: of like discuss what the couple wants to achieve, you know,
Speaker 1: early on and then have like a shared goal and
Speaker 1: I think the hard thing about doing this is that
Speaker 1: sometimes your goals will differ and sometimes that might just
Speaker 1: mean the relationship.
Speaker 2: It's not,
Speaker 1: it's not compatible? It's just not meant to be. I
Speaker 1: think this is a very hard thing that people need
Speaker 1: to accept. Sometimes somebody wants a different thing and that's
Speaker 1: not good or bad. It's just different. I think what
Speaker 1: will work best in long term is that you find
Speaker 1: like someone who has your values and can kind of
Speaker 1: like
Speaker 1: Commit to that vision for like the next 10, 20 years.
Speaker 1: I think ideally I think that's how you should approach marriage.
Speaker 1: But I think if you want to not get married
Speaker 1: and do like more short term stuff, that's okay too
Speaker 2: short term
Speaker 1: stuff. I
Speaker 2: mean, I
Speaker 1: mean when it comes to like financial instruments, right, they're like,
Speaker 1: they're like bonds. There's no, there's bills because they all
Speaker 1: have different lengths of commitment. Right? I think the amount
Speaker 1: of commitment you guys put in relationship will determine how
Speaker 1: long you want to stay together. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, some relationships are like a fire thing.
Speaker 2: One year relationship more short term and that's okay.
Speaker 1: That's okay. But if you do long term, it's best
Speaker 1: to get someone with the same goals, the more compatible
Speaker 1: goes out, the higher chance of you surviving the
Speaker 2: long term. Right?
Speaker 1: Maybe I want to shoot this question to you then
Speaker 1: how would you advise young couples out there to be
Speaker 1: less afraid to talk about money?
Speaker 2: I think it's an inevitability and the sooner you talk
Speaker 2: about it, the better, but of course there are ways
Speaker 2: to talk about it don't go on the first day.
Speaker 2: So how much in the future and how many
Speaker 1: of these things wait was it was a financial advisor
Speaker 1: pretending to be, you know, it was one of your scams.
Speaker 1: You should create a new scam. Scams are very real.
Speaker 1: My friends please
Speaker 2: watch out for scams
Speaker 1: not talking about experience. I
Speaker 2: think like uh
Speaker 2: the way to talk about it is very important and
Speaker 2: like
Speaker 2: maybe not the first date but I think the third
Speaker 2: or fifth especially. So it depends on the context of
Speaker 2: how you are meeting and what is the nature of
Speaker 2: this relationship but expect changes when it transits from an
Speaker 2: earlier stage kind of summer romance or whatever to more
Speaker 2: deep thing
Speaker 1: because when he said summer I
Speaker 2: said away away apologize
Speaker 1: actually Singapore company but
Speaker 2: it's like
Speaker 2: you will have to adjust. And
Speaker 2: there's also something nice about going for a more longer
Speaker 2: term committed thing. When I was young. I always thought
Speaker 2: like I'll just do short term things here.
Speaker 1: But
Speaker 2: my wife is my first girlfriend. So it's like there's
Speaker 2: something nice about it because you build something together long term.
Speaker 2: Like sometimes when we argue the things I think about
Speaker 2: is like
Speaker 2: the little, not just like the little jokes that we
Speaker 2: have together and things like that, all the memories but
Speaker 2: also the things that we built together like our house,
Speaker 2: our house is a three room actually be, but like
Speaker 1: it's a labor of love.
Speaker 2: It's even the floors are decisions that we've made not
Speaker 2: the floor, but floors like right here because we chose
Speaker 2: not to upgrade this part all the way.
Speaker 2: And there's something nice about it too because these are
Speaker 2: decisions that we've made because all the crack there, for example,
Speaker 2: the
Speaker 1: war L. A W. S problems
Speaker 2: in the house, right? For example, icon for example, not
Speaker 2: the most five star energy rated thing. But there is
Speaker 2: a trade off that we made. So we could have
Speaker 2: a very nice oven so that she can bake and stuff.
Speaker 1: So these are
Speaker 2: decisions that we've made and there's something nice about it too.
Speaker 2: And I think for young people, young people tend to
Speaker 2: want freedom especially nowadays and
Speaker 2: I think, okay, but be open to the fact that
Speaker 2: one day your mind will change and be open to
Speaker 2: embracing that and finances is one way to gauge that earlier.
Speaker 2: So I don't think you should, how much, How much,
Speaker 2: but like what kind of lifestyle would you like to
Speaker 2: have
Speaker 1: that? What's your, what's your goal?
Speaker 2: What
Speaker 1: questions? I think I'm leaving this podcast with more questions
Speaker 1: than ever. Actually more thought,
Speaker 1: small talk's not in a good way. And also the
Speaker 1: fact that we are probably in a constant state of
Speaker 1: evolution and change in every phase of life as well.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. You guys for coming on board
Speaker 1: talking about not just financial stuff because we always see
Speaker 1: you in that setting. Right? Thank you for sharing your
Speaker 1: relationship stuff as well. I think that was very eye
Speaker 1: opening and we matched energy levels today.
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that was
Speaker 1: okay. I still feel actually feel give so many like
Speaker 1: romantic and I feel like I feel like
Speaker 2: romantic
Speaker 1: market for me. So now to say like some romantic,
Speaker 1: would you like to end up with a romantic quote
Speaker 1: then like something you know, I kind of just shout
Speaker 1: out to beth you know my girlfriend
Speaker 2: was awesome,
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 1: plan stuff and money stuff with you better with that.
Speaker 1: I had so much that I learned about romantic relationships
Speaker 1: about finance, about everything. Financial intimacy. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for tuning into this episode of Men explain if you
Speaker 1: liked it as well, please sit the follow button. We
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Speaker 2: also follow at its clarity dot co on instagram and
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Speaker 1: we hope you enjoy our conversation about all the money
Speaker 1: stuff and I love stuff
Speaker 1: and see you next episode.
Speaker 1: Bye