1 00:00:03,599 --> 00:00:05,929 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:08,250 --> 00:00:11,350 Speaker 1: So, hey, everyone, welcome to Deep Dive. I'm back here 3 00:00:11,359 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: with Christina my co-host. And this time I believe you 4 00:00:14,890 --> 00:00:16,340 Speaker 1: have a quiz lined up for me. 5 00:00:16,350 --> 00:00:17,399 Speaker 2: Yes. Are you ready? 6 00:00:17,409 --> 00:00:18,340 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. Bring it on. 7 00:00:18,350 --> 00:00:20,729 Speaker 2: Ok. I'm gonna start with an easy one. I hope, 8 00:00:21,190 --> 00:00:25,030 Speaker 2: I hope what percentage of our food is imported? 9 00:00:25,049 --> 00:00:27,149 Speaker 1: Wow, that's called an easy one. 10 00:00:28,950 --> 00:00:30,610 Speaker 1: 77%. 11 00:00:30,850 --> 00:00:31,350 Speaker 2: Ok. 12 00:00:34,490 --> 00:00:37,909 Speaker 1: What's the answer? 90%? 90%. Ok. 13 00:00:38,029 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 2: Yes. Correct. More than that. More than that, 14 00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: more than that. 15 00:00:42,430 --> 00:00:45,318 Speaker 2: Ok. Next one, pick a number. How many countries do 16 00:00:45,330 --> 00:00:50,189 Speaker 2: we import our food from? 157 120 17 00:00:50,264 --> 00:00:53,444 Speaker 2: seven or 187? 18 00:00:53,634 --> 00:00:55,064 Speaker 1: 187. Correct. 19 00:00:55,075 --> 00:00:55,194 Speaker 2: You 20 00:00:55,205 --> 00:00:56,215 Speaker 2: just went with the highest. 21 00:00:56,224 --> 00:00:58,305 Speaker 1: That's right. Because I go to the supermarket and there's 22 00:00:58,314 --> 00:01:01,125 Speaker 1: so many different things I'm like. Right. 23 00:01:01,275 --> 00:01:04,845 Speaker 2: Ok. Last one. True or false. Turkey is a sauce 24 00:01:04,855 --> 00:01:06,404 Speaker 2: for eggs in Singapore. 25 00:01:07,129 --> 00:01:08,860 Speaker 1: Wow, false, 26 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:09,900 Speaker 1: true. 27 00:01:09,949 --> 00:01:10,980 Speaker 2: Oh, yes. 28 00:01:11,569 --> 00:01:13,449 Speaker 1: That's kind of exciting 29 00:01:13,750 --> 00:01:14,349 Speaker 2: indeed. 30 00:01:14,819 --> 00:01:17,279 Speaker 1: So, to get it from so far away, I never 31 00:01:17,290 --> 00:01:18,610 Speaker 1: knew that. Ok. So that was a bit of an 32 00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: eye opener. So it's quite clear that today our topic 33 00:01:21,050 --> 00:01:23,470 Speaker 1: is all food related in the sense, but we're talking 34 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: more about local sustainable food that we can grow literally 35 00:01:26,970 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 1: in our own backyard to keep our own country running. Right. Correct. 36 00:01:30,209 --> 00:01:32,610 Speaker 2: That's right. The reason why we're doing this is because 37 00:01:32,620 --> 00:01:36,910 Speaker 2: there was some local farming companies that were in the news. 38 00:01:36,919 --> 00:01:38,900 Speaker 2: Have you heard of V veggies? 39 00:01:39,410 --> 00:01:43,268 Speaker 2: No. Ok. They scrapped plans to build one of Singapore's 40 00:01:43,279 --> 00:01:47,730 Speaker 2: largest indoor farms in Lim Chu. Ok. Ok. Have you 41 00:01:47,739 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: heard of if, 42 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:51,889 Speaker 1: if he 43 00:01:54,309 --> 00:01:58,709 Speaker 2: indoor farm factory innovation? Ok. They too have shut down. 44 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,330 Speaker 2: They were supposed to be a mega indoor vegetable. 45 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:02,650 Speaker 1: Ok. Right. 46 00:02:02,860 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: And sky greens is also skating back. Even the fish 47 00:02:06,449 --> 00:02:09,619 Speaker 2: folks are running into trouble. This one sounds fishy. Ok. 48 00:02:10,550 --> 00:02:14,429 Speaker 2: It's a company called Barramundi Group which farms Asian sea bass. 49 00:02:14,690 --> 00:02:15,889 Speaker 2: They had stopped production 50 00:02:15,964 --> 00:02:18,865 Speaker 2: in our southern waters, but they have a Brunei operation 51 00:02:18,875 --> 00:02:20,865 Speaker 2: that's still actually going strong. 52 00:02:21,184 --> 00:02:22,565 Speaker 1: But the question I guess we want to ask is 53 00:02:22,574 --> 00:02:24,744 Speaker 1: what's going on? Why are all these guys coming opening 54 00:02:24,755 --> 00:02:27,395 Speaker 1: up supposed to do big things? But end up closing. Right. 55 00:02:27,514 --> 00:02:30,285 Speaker 1: And after all, we do have a goal, the 3030 goal, 56 00:02:30,475 --> 00:02:32,875 Speaker 1: but that seems a bit hard to reach now. 57 00:02:32,883 --> 00:02:35,274 Speaker 2: So it's only six years away. So we want to 58 00:02:35,285 --> 00:02:37,744 Speaker 2: talk about whether that's going to be a reachable goal 59 00:02:40,740 --> 00:02:43,570 Speaker 2: with us in the studio are Kenny, founder and principal 60 00:02:43,580 --> 00:02:46,669 Speaker 2: consultant of Garden Asia and the local farm Welcome, Kenny. 61 00:02:46,679 --> 00:02:49,589 Speaker 2: Hi there everyone. I'm Kenny from the local farm. Thank you. 62 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,490 Speaker 2: And Professor William Chen, director of the NTU Food Science 63 00:02:53,500 --> 00:02:57,899 Speaker 2: and Technology Program. He is also with the Singapore Agri 64 00:02:58,110 --> 00:03:00,130 Speaker 2: Food Innovation Lab or Sale. 65 00:03:00,139 --> 00:03:03,899 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. Ok, gentlemen, thanks for coming. Let's get cracking. Now. 66 00:03:03,910 --> 00:03:07,210 Speaker 1: According to the Singapore, food authorities numbers local vegetable production 67 00:03:07,220 --> 00:03:12,309 Speaker 1: accounted for just 3.2% of total food consumption in 2023. 68 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:17,610 Speaker 1: That's down from 3.9% in 2022. Seafood production also fell. 69 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:18,289 Speaker 1: So 70 00:03:18,770 --> 00:03:21,710 Speaker 1: is this linked to the big closures? I mean, what's 71 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,788 Speaker 1: what's been happening since 2022 that has resulted in this Kenny? 72 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,949 Speaker 2: Yes, it contributes to farms that has closed geopolitical scenarios 73 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,500 Speaker 2: have happened, you know, energy cost has gone up, kind 74 00:03:33,508 --> 00:03:35,750 Speaker 2: of disrupted a lot of high tech farmers in terms 75 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:38,550 Speaker 2: of their costing. All this plays a part in terms 76 00:03:38,559 --> 00:03:41,309 Speaker 2: of their decision to whether to continue producing or they 77 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,770 Speaker 2: are continue to just bite the bullet and just keep 78 00:03:43,779 --> 00:03:44,449 Speaker 2: burning down. 79 00:03:44,850 --> 00:03:48,479 Speaker 2: So I guess this affects the the total quantity of 80 00:03:48,490 --> 00:03:50,889 Speaker 2: uh vegetables and fish being produced in Singapore. 81 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,789 Speaker 1: Well, in addition to what Kenny just said, I I 82 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,539 Speaker 1: also think that maybe this also 83 00:03:56,889 --> 00:04:00,750 Speaker 1: uh has something to do with the establish, establishing the 84 00:04:00,759 --> 00:04:04,970 Speaker 1: p value chain proper ecosystem so that the local local 85 00:04:04,979 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: produce can actually reach out to the to the end 86 00:04:08,809 --> 00:04:12,789 Speaker 1: point that is not just consumer but other buyers as well. 87 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,779 Speaker 1: So you're saying in a way, the ecosystem has not 88 00:04:14,789 --> 00:04:16,790 Speaker 1: been fully established. Well, it takes 89 00:04:16,799 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 2: time totally agree. I mean, 90 00:04:18,579 --> 00:04:21,630 Speaker 2: ecosystem itself needs both sides of the coin which is 91 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,750 Speaker 2: demand and supply, ramping up. The supply is only one 92 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,659 Speaker 2: part of the ingredient in terms of technology digitization, high 93 00:04:28,670 --> 00:04:31,750 Speaker 2: tech is just one ingredient in productivity. There is actually 94 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,690 Speaker 2: a lot of other parts that is part of the 95 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:36,979 Speaker 2: ecosystem that we need to build. So I think other 96 00:04:36,988 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: than supply that we saw that is trying to ramp 97 00:04:38,890 --> 00:04:41,450 Speaker 2: up over the years, demand matters as well. Farmers at 98 00:04:41,459 --> 00:04:42,909 Speaker 2: the end of the day are entrepreneurs, 99 00:04:43,369 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: they are not just farmers, right? They are just business 100 00:04:45,649 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: people who wants to survive. Let's unpack that a little bit, right? 101 00:04:49,928 --> 00:04:53,558 Speaker 2: Because infrastructural costs have been named as one of the 102 00:04:53,570 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 2: key problems for high tech farms. 103 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: Explain to our listeners what goes into a high tech 104 00:05:00,890 --> 00:05:03,250 Speaker 2: farm in the first place compared to, you know, a 105 00:05:03,260 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: regular farm, but the kind of farm that, you know, 106 00:05:06,209 --> 00:05:07,579 Speaker 2: we grew up, 107 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,368 Speaker 1: the kind of the tractor the guys going around. Yeah. 108 00:05:10,850 --> 00:05:12,850 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly that we see on TV, we didn't grow 109 00:05:12,859 --> 00:05:15,390 Speaker 2: up on the farm but you know what I mean? Right. 110 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 2: So the high tech farm cost is prohibitive is what 111 00:05:18,809 --> 00:05:20,260 Speaker 2: we understand. But why 112 00:05:20,829 --> 00:05:24,029 Speaker 2: I guess it's really very subjective, it doesn't mean that 113 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,469 Speaker 2: the traditional farmers have it easy as well. Ok. Right. 114 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: Because they have been around for many years. So we 115 00:05:30,209 --> 00:05:32,809 Speaker 2: are comparing with farmers that have invested lots of money 116 00:05:32,820 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: years ago at that time is quite a huge investment 117 00:05:35,649 --> 00:05:38,070 Speaker 2: versus now when cost has gone up and then when 118 00:05:38,079 --> 00:05:40,738 Speaker 2: you compare to the investment, they have to go into tech, 119 00:05:40,890 --> 00:05:43,789 Speaker 2: what goes into technology or what goes into high tech 120 00:05:43,799 --> 00:05:48,579 Speaker 2: farms varies from different, whether it's a fish farmer, whether 121 00:05:48,589 --> 00:05:50,649 Speaker 2: it's a farmer or whether it's a vegetable farmer. 122 00:05:51,070 --> 00:05:54,529 Speaker 2: So three of the different farms have different technology that 123 00:05:54,540 --> 00:05:57,239 Speaker 2: they use and it depends on what technology that they 124 00:05:57,250 --> 00:06:00,420 Speaker 2: use and where they actually built it on to actually 125 00:06:00,428 --> 00:06:03,690 Speaker 2: put into place. So most of the investment comes in 126 00:06:03,700 --> 00:06:06,299 Speaker 2: is really the technology parts that they have to build. 127 00:06:06,309 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: For example, if we are building a hydroponic system, I 128 00:06:09,329 --> 00:06:14,290 Speaker 2: need to build the system, right? So that takes money. So, 129 00:06:14,299 --> 00:06:15,738 Speaker 2: but if you prepare a land, 130 00:06:16,059 --> 00:06:18,869 Speaker 2: what needs to be prepared that takes longer time that 131 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,100 Speaker 2: a lot of people may not appreciate is the soil, right? 132 00:06:22,109 --> 00:06:25,130 Speaker 2: So if a farmer is new and they want to 133 00:06:25,140 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 2: just keep doing it, the soil is, takes time for 134 00:06:28,369 --> 00:06:30,149 Speaker 2: them to be as good as what it is, 135 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:31,890 Speaker 1: I guess what we're saying is that basically the start 136 00:06:31,899 --> 00:06:34,738 Speaker 1: up is difficult and we don't talk about the traditional 137 00:06:34,750 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: methods because we know Singapore is land scarce. So we've 138 00:06:37,769 --> 00:06:39,959 Speaker 1: been going towards a more high tech version 139 00:06:40,269 --> 00:06:43,100 Speaker 1: Agri farming or Agritech farming, right? So with that in 140 00:06:43,109 --> 00:06:47,269 Speaker 1: mind the initial cost is high to get all this technology. 141 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,649 Speaker 1: And you're saying, because it's so different. Every type of 142 00:06:49,660 --> 00:06:49,859 Speaker 1: farm 143 00:06:49,869 --> 00:06:50,059 Speaker 2: needs 144 00:06:50,339 --> 00:06:53,170 Speaker 2: more things to it than the traditional farm right from 145 00:06:53,178 --> 00:06:57,269 Speaker 2: the census to your parts. And most of them are imported. 146 00:06:57,670 --> 00:06:59,450 Speaker 2: So it depends on where you bring it from. So 147 00:06:59,459 --> 00:07:02,670 Speaker 2: the capital expenditure is very high. When the government s 148 00:07:02,678 --> 00:07:05,299 Speaker 2: fa started this itself, there is a lot of grants 149 00:07:05,309 --> 00:07:08,019 Speaker 2: available from all these high tech farmers to tap on. 150 00:07:08,029 --> 00:07:09,609 Speaker 2: And I believe majority of them, 151 00:07:09,850 --> 00:07:13,420 Speaker 2: we have tapped onto the funds to minimize what they 152 00:07:13,429 --> 00:07:15,519 Speaker 2: have to invest in, into respective funds. So 153 00:07:15,529 --> 00:07:15,828 Speaker 1: is it 154 00:07:15,839 --> 00:07:19,230 Speaker 1: fair to say that the start up costs wasn't as 155 00:07:19,359 --> 00:07:22,350 Speaker 1: exponential because they had grants to help them with the 156 00:07:22,359 --> 00:07:23,089 Speaker 1: provider 157 00:07:23,100 --> 00:07:26,410 Speaker 2: to take the grants, right? Provided they literally, so assuming 158 00:07:26,420 --> 00:07:27,309 Speaker 2: that they take the grants, 159 00:07:27,609 --> 00:07:30,970 Speaker 2: the initial capital is definitely high depends on where you 160 00:07:30,980 --> 00:07:33,709 Speaker 2: bring the technology from, right? But at the end of 161 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,429 Speaker 2: the day itself, there are grants available that the statistics 162 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,709 Speaker 2: you can find them that they have actually spent tons 163 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,390 Speaker 2: of money all to 164 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,220 Speaker 2: help this farmers to have a good kick start. But 165 00:07:45,230 --> 00:07:48,450 Speaker 2: that's what happens. They have the initial kickstart, right? But 166 00:07:48,459 --> 00:07:51,540 Speaker 2: there's only one part of the equation. OK. So starting 167 00:07:51,549 --> 00:07:54,179 Speaker 2: may not be the biggest problem that they had because 168 00:07:54,190 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: they had money to tap into, they have the technology 169 00:07:57,450 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: to tap into, right? Because of the likes of scientists 170 00:08:00,769 --> 00:08:04,450 Speaker 2: and people who have these technologies to share. So then 171 00:08:04,459 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: what's the problem? Why couldn't they last? 172 00:08:08,709 --> 00:08:13,049 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, at the beginning of any high tech farm, they, 173 00:08:13,059 --> 00:08:15,989 Speaker 1: they look, they, they need to, you know, make a 174 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,369 Speaker 1: profit out of this farming practice. So a lot of 175 00:08:20,380 --> 00:08:23,459 Speaker 1: them are going into something that local consumer may not, 176 00:08:23,470 --> 00:08:26,890 Speaker 1: may not be so fancy about. Like for example, Michael 177 00:08:26,899 --> 00:08:27,529 Speaker 1: Green 178 00:08:27,980 --> 00:08:31,140 Speaker 1: kale. This, I mean, how much kale we eat, right? 179 00:08:31,260 --> 00:08:33,209 Speaker 1: So instead of kale, it should have been like maybe 180 00:08:33,219 --> 00:08:35,239 Speaker 1: I don't know your buck choi or something that more 181 00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:38,650 Speaker 1: locals eat, right? But those are low profit, 182 00:08:39,369 --> 00:08:39,770 Speaker 1: profit. 183 00:08:39,809 --> 00:08:42,770 Speaker 2: And also how do you how do you compete with 184 00:08:42,780 --> 00:08:44,500 Speaker 2: the cheaper options in the? 185 00:08:45,494 --> 00:08:48,284 Speaker 2: So that's what I have been sharing with many people, right? 186 00:08:48,294 --> 00:08:52,844 Speaker 2: Why are we saying that overseas import are cheaper? OK. 187 00:08:52,854 --> 00:08:56,534 Speaker 2: So let's put it from another perspective, agriculture state around 188 00:08:56,544 --> 00:09:00,565 Speaker 2: Asia or around the world, majority of the farms are 189 00:09:00,575 --> 00:09:03,544 Speaker 2: part of their GDP, right? Means it contributes to them, right? 190 00:09:03,554 --> 00:09:05,405 Speaker 2: So what do the government usually do is that they 191 00:09:05,414 --> 00:09:08,775 Speaker 2: will subsidize the agriculture sector to make it competitive so 192 00:09:08,784 --> 00:09:09,604 Speaker 2: that they can export. 193 00:09:10,270 --> 00:09:14,419 Speaker 2: So in a layman terms, for example, if you eat 194 00:09:14,429 --> 00:09:17,669 Speaker 2: a Australian beef in Singapore, maybe you have to thank 195 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 2: the Australians who pay tax to the government to subsidize 196 00:09:20,890 --> 00:09:23,690 Speaker 2: their cattle farmer to make it competitive for them to 197 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:26,819 Speaker 2: come to Singapore. But nobody will look at the import 198 00:09:26,830 --> 00:09:30,619 Speaker 2: food that come to Singapore has been subsidized versus what 199 00:09:30,630 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 2: we have to pay 200 00:09:31,869 --> 00:09:35,890 Speaker 2: to produce one maybe pack of vegetables in. So then 201 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:38,429 Speaker 2: my question has always been, has it been apple to 202 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,109 Speaker 2: apple comparison or we just generalizing things that just because 203 00:09:42,119 --> 00:09:45,380 Speaker 2: of the dollar value? And we say that Singapore is expensive? Yes, 204 00:09:45,390 --> 00:09:45,820 Speaker 2: it's for, for 205 00:09:46,609 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: so in that sense, then Singapore government could if they 206 00:09:50,010 --> 00:09:53,250 Speaker 1: wanted to subsidize the local produce so that it is 207 00:09:53,260 --> 00:09:54,599 Speaker 1: competitive in pricing, but 208 00:09:54,609 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 2: they 209 00:09:54,729 --> 00:09:58,020 Speaker 2: already give these grants, is that not a kind of 210 00:09:58,030 --> 00:09:58,608 Speaker 2: a subsidy. 211 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: So the grant itself is just like a Kickstarter grant. 212 00:10:02,229 --> 00:10:05,650 Speaker 2: All right, for them to kickstart the K pe, right? 213 00:10:05,659 --> 00:10:08,059 Speaker 2: All right. What we are saying is the end part 214 00:10:08,070 --> 00:10:11,710 Speaker 2: of the chain, right? So Singapore itself, one of the 215 00:10:11,719 --> 00:10:14,809 Speaker 2: policies that we do is that we import more than 90%. 216 00:10:15,049 --> 00:10:17,380 Speaker 2: All right. And we know that we have to diversify 217 00:10:17,390 --> 00:10:18,460 Speaker 2: the basket as well 218 00:10:18,979 --> 00:10:21,010 Speaker 2: means we have put all the eggs in different baskets, right? 219 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,140 Speaker 2: So we may have signed several FTA S to make 220 00:10:24,150 --> 00:10:27,229 Speaker 2: sure that we are neutral. We cannot be positioned that 221 00:10:27,239 --> 00:10:29,530 Speaker 2: we are actually subsidizing, right? So 222 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,689 Speaker 1: then we should argue that economic point because again, these 223 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:35,390 Speaker 1: farmers overseas, they are being subsidized because they actually make 224 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,390 Speaker 1: more money from selling outside of their own country than 225 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: in their own country. But 226 00:10:40,530 --> 00:10:40,608 Speaker 2: they 227 00:10:40,619 --> 00:10:44,359 Speaker 2: already have a very large, large market in their country. 228 00:10:44,530 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 2: So they don't even have to worry about the bottom 229 00:10:46,690 --> 00:10:47,369 Speaker 2: line there. 230 00:10:47,799 --> 00:10:50,359 Speaker 2: Ok. Let's go to consumers. We ran a poll on 231 00:10:50,369 --> 00:10:53,770 Speaker 2: CN A telegram, whatsapp and Instagram channels on how willing 232 00:10:53,780 --> 00:10:57,260 Speaker 2: people were to support local produce. Ok. So we received 233 00:10:57,270 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: more than 18,000 votes and here's what we found. So 234 00:11:00,530 --> 00:11:03,608 Speaker 2: I'm gonna get you to guess, ok, one in four 235 00:11:03,619 --> 00:11:05,809 Speaker 2: are willing or not willing to pay more 236 00:11:06,109 --> 00:11:11,228 Speaker 2: to support local produce. One out of four not willing 237 00:11:11,239 --> 00:11:15,150 Speaker 2: to pay. Yes. Not willing to pay more. That's 238 00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: a, I'm surprised that means every out of every four people, 239 00:11:17,450 --> 00:11:19,140 Speaker 1: three of them say, ok, I don't mind paying more. 240 00:11:19,150 --> 00:11:22,809 Speaker 2: Yes. But the question is how much more, how much? 241 00:11:24,369 --> 00:11:25,969 Speaker 1: Ok. So that's our next part. How much 242 00:11:25,979 --> 00:11:29,750 Speaker 2: more? Anything from 50 cents more to $2 more. 243 00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:33,530 Speaker 1: So, a packet of vegetables costs $2. I'm willing to 244 00:11:33,539 --> 00:11:34,770 Speaker 1: pay up to 245 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,590 Speaker 2: 20% maybe 50 cents, 246 00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:38,599 Speaker 1: maybe two 247 00:11:38,609 --> 00:11:42,039 Speaker 1: dollars, 50 cents. So the vegetables are $3 then. Nope, 248 00:11:42,049 --> 00:11:43,069 Speaker 1: I'm not buying it. 249 00:11:43,549 --> 00:11:43,780 Speaker 1: So, 250 00:11:43,789 --> 00:11:46,189 Speaker 2: correct, 50 cents more was what they were willing to do. 251 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,039 Speaker 2: But what's really interesting is that if you look at 252 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:50,589 Speaker 2: one hour four, 253 00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:53,098 Speaker 2: they say that they are willing. Wheeling is just like, 254 00:11:53,109 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: do you support local? Yes, I do. Yeah. But do 255 00:11:55,849 --> 00:11:59,039 Speaker 2: you pay to buy local? Then that's where, how much 256 00:11:59,049 --> 00:12:01,770 Speaker 2: money only if it's 50 cents more. So that's going 257 00:12:01,780 --> 00:12:04,369 Speaker 2: to be a big challenge as well. So 50 cents 258 00:12:04,380 --> 00:12:07,020 Speaker 2: can be pretty subjective. Right? If you have a sale 259 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:10,669 Speaker 2: going on and there is a huge group of vegetables 260 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,830 Speaker 2: that are super cheap, then we will never hit our baseline. 261 00:12:13,890 --> 00:12:17,449 Speaker 1: But then the question is why does local produce have 262 00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:18,479 Speaker 1: to cost more? 263 00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:21,900 Speaker 1: Why can't it be as competitive as the other guys 264 00:12:21,909 --> 00:12:24,159 Speaker 1: that we bring in? Well, I think we also have 265 00:12:24,169 --> 00:12:27,739 Speaker 1: this currency issue, you know, sing dollar is so strong. 266 00:12:28,349 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: When 267 00:12:28,729 --> 00:12:32,989 Speaker 2: I go to the supermarket, sometimes at giant or NTUC, 268 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,549 Speaker 2: these big packets from China, for example, leafy vegetables, they 269 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:42,289 Speaker 2: are three for $2. Have you seen those? So how 270 00:12:42,299 --> 00:12:46,460 Speaker 2: do we compete with the local hydroponics, high tech farm, 271 00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:51,630 Speaker 2: the vegetables are better. It's cleaner, it's maybe even prewashed. 272 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,630 Speaker 2: But I mean, I might pay more, but I don't 273 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,348 Speaker 2: think my mom would pay double 274 00:12:57,359 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: for the average person. We assume all vegetables are kind 275 00:13:00,770 --> 00:13:02,869 Speaker 1: of the same. You know, the nutritional value is pretty 276 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,710 Speaker 1: much the same. So I don't imagine it being, 277 00:13:05,250 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: you know, like 50% less protein or less nutrition that 278 00:13:08,450 --> 00:13:11,250 Speaker 1: vegetable versus the local vegetable. You know what? 279 00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:14,270 Speaker 2: We already have a problem with the consumer part of 280 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,119 Speaker 2: the equation. Now, I think the thing is consumer are 281 00:13:17,130 --> 00:13:20,510 Speaker 2: very visual people. All right. So when they go to 282 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,130 Speaker 2: buy certain things, either the price are talking to them, right? 283 00:13:24,140 --> 00:13:26,260 Speaker 2: Or whether they look at the vegetables, some of them 284 00:13:26,270 --> 00:13:28,549 Speaker 2: have that touch and say, oh this is fresher or not, 285 00:13:28,739 --> 00:13:30,569 Speaker 2: but just think about it, right. How long do you 286 00:13:30,580 --> 00:13:33,270 Speaker 2: think it will take for the vegetables to arrive in Singapore? 287 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:38,049 Speaker 2: And how long can the freshness and nutritional f of 288 00:13:38,059 --> 00:13:42,429 Speaker 2: the vegetables? Actually, it depletes every day. Yeah. So imagine 289 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,500 Speaker 2: if you buy a local vegetables, right? They are in 290 00:13:45,510 --> 00:13:48,738 Speaker 2: the shelf for seven days. They are still fresh because 291 00:13:48,750 --> 00:13:51,820 Speaker 2: it will slowly deplete until the seven day. By the 292 00:13:51,830 --> 00:13:55,340 Speaker 2: time you import some of the vegetables from other countries, 293 00:13:55,580 --> 00:13:57,989 Speaker 2: they may be three day old, two day old. 294 00:13:58,549 --> 00:14:01,030 Speaker 2: So by the time, then so many people will start 295 00:14:01,039 --> 00:14:04,500 Speaker 2: to say that, hey, my vegetable don't last. Yeah, why 296 00:14:04,510 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: is that? So, so this is because of the logistics 297 00:14:07,650 --> 00:14:10,919 Speaker 2: that comes in the whole chain logistics that how you 298 00:14:10,929 --> 00:14:13,348 Speaker 2: bring them through, right? And of course, different countries that 299 00:14:13,359 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: produce different, produce itself. Sometimes they have oversupply. So guess 300 00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:19,229 Speaker 2: where they will go if there's oversupply 301 00:14:19,630 --> 00:14:22,390 Speaker 2: when they oversupply from one country, they put it to 302 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,309 Speaker 2: the next country causes the next country to have oversupply 303 00:14:25,450 --> 00:14:27,510 Speaker 2: and then it filters to us. Ok. 304 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,270 Speaker 1: We have a lack of supply. So we just take 305 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,130 Speaker 1: it in, right? So is that sort of where we 306 00:14:33,140 --> 00:14:35,109 Speaker 1: want to work towards where one day we have so 307 00:14:35,119 --> 00:14:37,510 Speaker 1: much produce that we are selling it to other countries. 308 00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:40,359 Speaker 1: But I think we also perhaps need to bear in 309 00:14:40,369 --> 00:14:43,979 Speaker 1: mind that the supply chain disruption are getting more and 310 00:14:43,989 --> 00:14:46,789 Speaker 1: more frequent. So we should not take it as a 311 00:14:46,799 --> 00:14:49,830 Speaker 1: given that the waste will continue flowing to Singapore 312 00:14:49,849 --> 00:14:53,380 Speaker 2: when I was reading about how much farming costs in Singapore? 313 00:14:53,390 --> 00:14:57,270 Speaker 2: I understand that because manpower costs and then there's energy costs, 314 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,500 Speaker 2: there's water cost, there's land costs. So as you say, 315 00:15:01,510 --> 00:15:04,729 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's a business. Right. 316 00:15:04,739 --> 00:15:04,979 Speaker 2: And 317 00:15:05,085 --> 00:15:09,385 Speaker 2: do you think that farming in Singapore is costly to 318 00:15:09,395 --> 00:15:12,755 Speaker 2: begin with? I think there is no doubt because everything 319 00:15:12,765 --> 00:15:14,934 Speaker 2: is expensive in Singapore because we are a city. We 320 00:15:14,945 --> 00:15:16,844 Speaker 2: are just a little dot Right. It's not just about farming, 321 00:15:18,044 --> 00:15:20,804 Speaker 2: it's everything else, right? I mean, just, yeah, so that's 322 00:15:20,815 --> 00:15:23,825 Speaker 2: a given, right? Every city itself face this challenge, right? 323 00:15:24,184 --> 00:15:26,705 Speaker 2: But I think rather is the threat real like what 324 00:15:26,715 --> 00:15:29,755 Speaker 2: prof have shared. Yeah. Is the threat that one day 325 00:15:29,765 --> 00:15:32,145 Speaker 2: we have money, we can't eat money. Will it come true? 326 00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:37,750 Speaker 2: I did the test. So exactly. So during circuit breaker, 327 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,919 Speaker 2: as you remember? Right. So I decided to do a Kickstarter. 328 00:15:41,929 --> 00:15:45,719 Speaker 2: I thought everybody is snatching away their toilet rolls. It's 329 00:15:45,729 --> 00:15:48,090 Speaker 2: about time for me to put some vegetables into the 330 00:15:48,099 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: front and hoping that they will subscribe. 331 00:15:50,359 --> 00:15:53,340 Speaker 2: Right? And so so I did a Kickstarter. I told, 332 00:15:53,349 --> 00:15:55,380 Speaker 2: I asked the farmers, the farmers all come in and 333 00:15:55,390 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 2: they say, ok, let's try five, I say 500 say, ok, 334 00:15:58,289 --> 00:16:03,219 Speaker 2: let's try 225 actually agrees to subscribe. So I went 335 00:16:03,229 --> 00:16:05,349 Speaker 2: to the farmers, farmers say, if you can get 20 336 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 2: that's awesome. You have 200. Why don't you go ahead. 337 00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:10,799 Speaker 2: So I say, ok, let's go ahead. But when we 338 00:16:10,809 --> 00:16:13,650 Speaker 2: ask people to pay, guess how many? Now it's my 339 00:16:13,659 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 2: turn to ask you 225. Ok. How many? Right? That 340 00:16:17,039 --> 00:16:20,270 Speaker 2: says that they will support, right? How many actually paid 341 00:16:20,690 --> 00:16:21,380 Speaker 2: 20 342 00:16:22,090 --> 00:16:26,059 Speaker 2: a little bit more? 75? All right. So that was 343 00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:30,549 Speaker 2: 75 of packs for six months. All right, every week 344 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: we will deliver to it in 2021. We did another one, right? 345 00:16:35,099 --> 00:16:37,890 Speaker 2: We say we go for three months. All right. And 346 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:39,900 Speaker 2: we change every week for you so that you won't 347 00:16:39,909 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 2: have the same thing for you, right? Ok. So we 348 00:16:41,969 --> 00:16:44,150 Speaker 2: thought 75 work a little bit harder. We should get 349 00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:46,299 Speaker 2: 100 families that willing to pay 350 00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: and we say let's do it then. Now that's the 351 00:16:50,010 --> 00:16:53,580 Speaker 2: next number out of 75. How many stayed on with us? 352 00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:54,239 Speaker 2: 40 353 00:16:55,010 --> 00:16:59,650 Speaker 2: 1515. So what does it mean? You know what happens 354 00:16:59,659 --> 00:17:02,590 Speaker 2: during that period? Right. During the period itself when we 355 00:17:02,599 --> 00:17:05,510 Speaker 2: are panicking. Guess what happens to the media 356 00:17:06,010 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: we're sharing with you Singaporeans don't panic. There is lots 357 00:17:10,050 --> 00:17:14,250 Speaker 2: of food behind. We have enough, don't snatch, don't, we 358 00:17:14,260 --> 00:17:17,750 Speaker 2: will replenish. We have enough. We have stockpiles. We have this, 359 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 2: we have that. This is exactly what Steve told me 360 00:17:20,650 --> 00:17:24,349 Speaker 2: before we started this recording. He says, I'm not worried 361 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,670 Speaker 2: about food security. Like the government is very good. So 362 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 2: the trust is there, right? So we were really jaded 363 00:17:30,290 --> 00:17:33,708 Speaker 2: at that point in time. All right. But thankfully something happened, 364 00:17:33,719 --> 00:17:35,270 Speaker 2: a business friend contacted me 365 00:17:35,630 --> 00:17:37,810 Speaker 2: and say that can I like your three months back? 366 00:17:37,819 --> 00:17:40,939 Speaker 2: But don't send to my home, send to the poor. 367 00:17:42,140 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 2: That was the moment where we started to realize that 368 00:17:46,209 --> 00:17:49,170 Speaker 2: where we send, who we send doesn't matter as long 369 00:17:49,180 --> 00:17:52,829 Speaker 2: as the person appreciate local produce, right? How somebody is 370 00:17:52,839 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 2: paying for it. So the local farm started. Yeah. So 371 00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:58,429 Speaker 2: pros you were telling us this, right? Don't just depend 372 00:17:58,439 --> 00:18:03,709 Speaker 2: on consumers, think bigger, think broader, go to businesses, go 373 00:18:03,719 --> 00:18:04,290 Speaker 2: to hotels. 374 00:18:04,484 --> 00:18:05,165 Speaker 2: You were saying, yeah, 375 00:18:05,175 --> 00:18:05,185 Speaker 1: I 376 00:18:05,194 --> 00:18:08,045 Speaker 1: mean you just need one of these huge companies, the 377 00:18:08,055 --> 00:18:11,035 Speaker 1: airport catering services, they need tons and tons of vegetables 378 00:18:11,045 --> 00:18:13,864 Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, I think if we take these really 379 00:18:13,875 --> 00:18:19,854 Speaker 1: like national security level, then we can mobilize, mobilize, you know, 380 00:18:19,864 --> 00:18:23,944 Speaker 1: more stakeholders like the S A schools, hospital F and 381 00:18:23,954 --> 00:18:24,645 Speaker 1: B sectors. 382 00:18:25,170 --> 00:18:28,139 Speaker 1: They were just, you know, in fact, they will also 383 00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:32,109 Speaker 1: help us achieve this, establish a better value chain because 384 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:37,419 Speaker 1: then you have this demand for people and then supply. 385 00:18:37,489 --> 00:18:39,260 Speaker 1: So in a way you're saying we force it, make 386 00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:42,688 Speaker 1: it work by saying, ok, all the military units need 387 00:18:42,699 --> 00:18:46,109 Speaker 1: to buy vegetables from ABC company and it becomes so 388 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,739 Speaker 1: you force the demand and therefore the supply has to 389 00:18:48,750 --> 00:18:49,699 Speaker 1: ramp up to service. 390 00:18:49,709 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: You come 391 00:18:50,050 --> 00:18:50,819 Speaker 2: up with the product and 392 00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,060 Speaker 2: then you go out to market and then you see 393 00:18:53,069 --> 00:18:55,670 Speaker 2: whether people like it, but in this case, because there's 394 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,589 Speaker 2: so many challenges. Do you think that that could be 395 00:18:59,599 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 2: a way to really meet our goal? The 3030 goal? 396 00:19:03,140 --> 00:19:06,079 Speaker 2: I think it's a food security problem. Ok. All right. 397 00:19:06,089 --> 00:19:07,869 Speaker 2: So we have to understand that this is a food 398 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,380 Speaker 2: security issue that we're locking. It's not just a business deal. 399 00:19:11,569 --> 00:19:13,459 Speaker 2: All right. So we have to take that what we 400 00:19:13,469 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 2: just shared earlier with some caution, right? Why? Because 401 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,609 Speaker 2: when we say let's get someone big to offtake, they 402 00:19:21,619 --> 00:19:24,170 Speaker 2: are big, they can off take a lot, then they 403 00:19:24,180 --> 00:19:26,790 Speaker 2: will ask back the farmers, can you produce, do you 404 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,079 Speaker 2: have enough? Right? I have large volume. Can you do it? 405 00:19:30,089 --> 00:19:32,829 Speaker 2: Imagine that our vegetables is at three point something percent 406 00:19:32,839 --> 00:19:36,780 Speaker 2: right now. Can we even produce the 30 for them? So, 407 00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 2: but then to me itself is that one is a wish, 408 00:19:40,290 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 2: one is a need. So what I'm saying here is 409 00:19:43,170 --> 00:19:44,739 Speaker 2: that it takes time. 410 00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 2: So we are not asking the big players to say 411 00:19:48,050 --> 00:19:52,300 Speaker 2: that take all. Why don't you start with just one type? 412 00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:56,349 Speaker 2: Take 1% right? And then let the farmers sustain, right? 413 00:19:56,369 --> 00:19:59,550 Speaker 2: Let them grow more, get the ecosystem in place. Then 414 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,430 Speaker 2: you from 1% you go to two and then you 415 00:20:01,439 --> 00:20:02,260 Speaker 2: slowly increase. 416 00:20:02,270 --> 00:20:04,219 Speaker 1: But you know, Singapore, we don't like to do things 417 00:20:04,229 --> 00:20:04,829 Speaker 1: too slowly. 418 00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:05,010 Speaker 2: That's 419 00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:06,238 Speaker 2: exactly the problem that I think 420 00:20:06,349 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 2: is a huge problem that we are not patient enough 421 00:20:08,449 --> 00:20:09,889 Speaker 2: ecosystem takes time to build. 422 00:20:10,619 --> 00:20:12,389 Speaker 1: We talk about 30 by 30. I think we are 423 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,369 Speaker 1: also being a little bit impatient. We need to bear 424 00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: in mind that the 30 by D was pushed out 425 00:20:18,010 --> 00:20:22,569 Speaker 1: in 2019. So everybody is now is asking a question. 426 00:20:22,579 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: If we look at the history of the ev, then 427 00:20:26,369 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: we should be more. Yeah. Yeah. 428 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,569 Speaker 1: I don't see a technology driven. 429 00:20:32,579 --> 00:20:32,729 Speaker 2: I 430 00:20:32,739 --> 00:20:35,390 Speaker 2: totally agree with him is that we are too eager 431 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,438 Speaker 2: to see results, but we have set ourselves a target, 432 00:20:38,449 --> 00:20:41,030 Speaker 2: a goal that we are trying to work towards. And 433 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 2: the ecosystem takes time. For example, I would 434 00:20:42,810 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: challenge you because with all the technology out there, everybody 435 00:20:45,650 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: else in some part of the world, somebody is already 436 00:20:48,170 --> 00:20:51,699 Speaker 1: doing something similar, not exactly the same but similar. Can't 437 00:20:51,709 --> 00:20:53,410 Speaker 1: we just leap frog. 438 00:20:54,069 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: Singapore is quite unique in the sense that we tropical country, 439 00:20:57,290 --> 00:21:00,899 Speaker 1: humidity is different and the temperature is different. The climate 440 00:21:00,910 --> 00:21:03,050 Speaker 1: condition is very different from the rest of the world. 441 00:21:03,060 --> 00:21:07,479 Speaker 1: So whether the technology is suitable for local condition, that 442 00:21:07,489 --> 00:21:08,089 Speaker 1: is some, 443 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,489 Speaker 2: there's a lot of creating that needs to be done. 444 00:21:10,859 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 2: A lot of technology that many of them have brought 445 00:21:14,170 --> 00:21:14,889 Speaker 2: in from Europe. 446 00:21:15,250 --> 00:21:18,079 Speaker 2: All right. They have Israel, they have many different technology 447 00:21:18,089 --> 00:21:22,180 Speaker 2: that has in place. But are they really suitable for Singapore? 448 00:21:22,239 --> 00:21:24,790 Speaker 2: And what are the changes that you need to do? 449 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,829 Speaker 2: What are the lessons that you may have to learn 450 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:29,790 Speaker 2: before you really get a sustainable production. 451 00:21:30,069 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 2: That takes time, that takes time. I think it takes 452 00:21:33,130 --> 00:21:35,729 Speaker 2: people like prof you were telling us that you have 453 00:21:35,739 --> 00:21:39,829 Speaker 2: the grant from the National Research Foundation, right to work 454 00:21:39,839 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 2: on an efficient indoor farm system for Singapore. 455 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:45,468 Speaker 1: So this is exactly the point we are trying to 456 00:21:45,479 --> 00:21:45,689 Speaker 1: Ken 457 00:21:45,885 --> 00:21:47,625 Speaker 1: and they're trying to make. That is we need to 458 00:21:47,635 --> 00:21:51,785 Speaker 1: find the technology which are suitable for local farming conditions. 459 00:21:51,954 --> 00:21:55,285 Speaker 1: We have received this one from National Research Foundation to 460 00:21:55,295 --> 00:21:59,734 Speaker 1: work with the farm farm. No, uh uh these are 461 00:21:59,765 --> 00:22:03,744 Speaker 1: Dutch indoor farm called Rui. So they have operation, production, 462 00:22:03,755 --> 00:22:05,704 Speaker 1: operation in at the Loyang site. 463 00:22:05,989 --> 00:22:07,949 Speaker 1: What we are going to do is to create this 464 00:22:07,959 --> 00:22:12,569 Speaker 1: test based infrastructure and create building and then, and then 465 00:22:12,579 --> 00:22:16,579 Speaker 1: we would test all the innovation that we develop through 466 00:22:16,589 --> 00:22:19,770 Speaker 1: this ground and then see whether they are suitable for 467 00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:24,250 Speaker 1: the to enhance the farming yield or nutritional value. So 468 00:22:24,260 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: I think this this way then we from farming perspective, 469 00:22:27,569 --> 00:22:29,569 Speaker 1: we already have a value chain because 470 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: on technology, we tweak the condition to see whether they 471 00:22:32,689 --> 00:22:37,589 Speaker 1: are suitable to help Singapore achieve a better yield, better nutrition. 472 00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: And then from there, we move on to the farm site. 473 00:22:39,810 --> 00:22:41,728 Speaker 1: So there's no disruption, 474 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,419 Speaker 2: the other layer itself is that while he's taking time 475 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,859 Speaker 2: that is needed for a proof of concept or whether 476 00:22:47,869 --> 00:22:52,099 Speaker 2: to make sure that it's suitable itself farmers operation cost 477 00:22:52,189 --> 00:22:56,979 Speaker 2: farmers basically burning every day. All right. So when we 478 00:22:56,989 --> 00:22:57,660 Speaker 2: have a goal, 479 00:22:57,959 --> 00:23:00,479 Speaker 2: the question itself is that whose goal is that? Is 480 00:23:00,489 --> 00:23:04,229 Speaker 2: it a farmer's dream to hit 2030? Maybe I just 481 00:23:04,239 --> 00:23:07,069 Speaker 2: want to produce enough to be sustainable. But if you 482 00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:10,438 Speaker 2: ramp up the production, then there must be an ecosystem 483 00:23:10,449 --> 00:23:12,239 Speaker 2: where the demand comes in. If you think about it, 484 00:23:12,250 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: like what profit share 2019 was all started. We are 485 00:23:15,530 --> 00:23:19,260 Speaker 2: like maybe like what, six less than six years about, right. 486 00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:22,050 Speaker 2: We are just about six years now. Right? And what 487 00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:25,719 Speaker 2: has changed since the six years, every student that goes 488 00:23:25,729 --> 00:23:26,219 Speaker 2: back home 489 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,718 Speaker 2: know that food security is important because it filters to 490 00:23:29,729 --> 00:23:33,099 Speaker 2: the moe syllabus. Every kid knows that technology is the 491 00:23:33,109 --> 00:23:36,500 Speaker 2: way the aunties and uncles in the community will receive 492 00:23:36,510 --> 00:23:40,579 Speaker 2: seeds for them to grow vegetables. So all this takes time. Right. Right. 493 00:23:40,589 --> 00:23:42,099 Speaker 2: Because let's put it back 494 00:23:42,780 --> 00:23:46,459 Speaker 2: in the sixties itself. We are self efficient in food. 495 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,829 Speaker 2: We are agriculture state, we export pork, 496 00:23:50,790 --> 00:23:51,270 Speaker 1: right. 497 00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:55,310 Speaker 2: So the thing is that after 50 over years to 498 00:23:55,319 --> 00:23:58,619 Speaker 2: become who we are today as a first world country, 499 00:23:58,959 --> 00:24:04,310 Speaker 2: we have sacrificed and prioritize right to something. So actually 500 00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:04,819 Speaker 2: we are just 501 00:24:05,260 --> 00:24:08,900 Speaker 2: one big route to me. Yeah. So I think agriculture 502 00:24:08,910 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 2: is always the cornerstone of civilization. It's just a matter 503 00:24:11,489 --> 00:24:15,079 Speaker 2: of how we rook into agriculture and see whether what 504 00:24:15,089 --> 00:24:17,109 Speaker 2: we have. And the only problem that Singapore has that 505 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,229 Speaker 2: a lot of country doesn't have the same problem is 506 00:24:19,239 --> 00:24:21,609 Speaker 2: that we do not have a hinder land. So I 507 00:24:21,619 --> 00:24:24,688 Speaker 2: can't push the farmers to somewhere else. Where else can 508 00:24:24,699 --> 00:24:26,709 Speaker 2: we go? Lim Chu Kang. That's where we 509 00:24:26,994 --> 00:24:27,764 Speaker 1: multi story car 510 00:24:27,994 --> 00:24:28,034 Speaker 1: park, 511 00:24:30,314 --> 00:24:33,655 Speaker 2: the car on top of my HDB. So what we 512 00:24:33,665 --> 00:24:35,135 Speaker 2: always say is that we are limited land but we 513 00:24:35,145 --> 00:24:38,734 Speaker 2: have import space. But we are forced to think 514 00:24:38,744 --> 00:24:42,514 Speaker 1: right on one point when I see the Singapore, the 515 00:24:42,525 --> 00:24:48,224 Speaker 1: challenges we are facing is similar elsewhere. Also the food, import, 516 00:24:48,650 --> 00:24:51,329 Speaker 1: even the big country, they all import food. So we're 517 00:24:51,339 --> 00:24:53,660 Speaker 1: not the only one. So about 518 00:24:53,770 --> 00:24:57,420 Speaker 2: dependence is it's quite serious, right? I mean when when 519 00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:58,989 Speaker 2: Malaysia has a chicken ban, 520 00:24:59,410 --> 00:25:01,430 Speaker 2: that was kind of a bit of a chaos, right? 521 00:25:01,439 --> 00:25:01,739 Speaker 2: On the 522 00:25:02,250 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to get at is that for example, 523 00:25:05,050 --> 00:25:08,910 Speaker 1: some big country like China France, they may think, oh, 524 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,130 Speaker 1: let's not worry about it. We have plenty of land. 525 00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:14,489 Speaker 1: In fact, they just simply import 526 00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: food. 527 00:25:14,890 --> 00:25:17,688 Speaker 2: I can say this because I'm 1/4 cha horticulture farmer, 528 00:25:17,699 --> 00:25:23,599 Speaker 2: every farmer, parents of farmers, their dream is to earn enough, 529 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 2: get the kids out of the industry 530 00:25:26,609 --> 00:25:29,709 Speaker 2: and not be a be a farmer, right? So it's 531 00:25:29,719 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 2: not just a Singapore thing, right? China is facing the 532 00:25:33,209 --> 00:25:37,629 Speaker 2: same challenge I have friends around the world. They are farmers, right? 533 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,410 Speaker 2: Whether it's in UK, whether it's in Australia, they face 534 00:25:40,420 --> 00:25:43,379 Speaker 2: the same challenge. The biggest problem I remember I asked 535 00:25:43,390 --> 00:25:46,949 Speaker 2: South African farmer, what's the biggest challenge in your country? 536 00:25:46,959 --> 00:25:50,139 Speaker 2: Is it attracting young people to join the industry? How 537 00:25:50,150 --> 00:25:53,349 Speaker 2: different is that from Singapore? We are facing the same challenge. 538 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,310 Speaker 2: This industry is not in silo, 539 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,670 Speaker 2: right? Everyone across the world is facing the same challenge. 540 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,829 Speaker 1: But this one is even more challenging because it's such 541 00:26:01,839 --> 00:26:03,829 Speaker 1: an old industry actually. And also 542 00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:07,750 Speaker 2: it's a very basic industry because it relates to our food, 543 00:26:07,810 --> 00:26:10,619 Speaker 2: which is something that you can't wish away. At 544 00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:12,729 Speaker 1: what point when we have, we said one out of 545 00:26:12,739 --> 00:26:15,750 Speaker 1: four are willing to pay but not pay that much. 546 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,020 Speaker 1: I mean, is there sort of a goal that you 547 00:26:18,030 --> 00:26:19,739 Speaker 1: think in the next five years if we hit that 548 00:26:19,750 --> 00:26:21,229 Speaker 1: for you? It's like we're on our way. 549 00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: But II I still agree what profit numbers are just numbers, right? 550 00:26:26,569 --> 00:26:30,988 Speaker 2: It takes the whole ecosystem ie for us when we 551 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,930 Speaker 2: are trying to drive to be the aggregator of demand, 552 00:26:34,020 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 2: we simplify our produce because we realize that the persona 553 00:26:39,530 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: of people that buy local are younger female below 45. 554 00:26:42,719 --> 00:26:45,780 Speaker 2: But guess what happened to them is that they hardly 555 00:26:45,790 --> 00:26:46,478 Speaker 2: cook at home 556 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,699 Speaker 2: and Singapore only have fish, eggs and vegetables, right? If 557 00:26:49,709 --> 00:26:51,650 Speaker 2: I try to sell to this group of people who 558 00:26:51,660 --> 00:26:54,489 Speaker 2: love to support local, willing to pay the 50 cents 559 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:56,530 Speaker 2: but don't cook, but they don't cook. Where do you 560 00:26:56,540 --> 00:26:58,839 Speaker 2: think this vegetable goes to their mom? Right. So to 561 00:26:58,849 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 2: the salad bowl that they buy from like the salad 562 00:27:01,530 --> 00:27:02,290 Speaker 2: bowl places 563 00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:02,349 Speaker 1: they 564 00:27:02,479 --> 00:27:02,839 Speaker 2: buy, 565 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,510 Speaker 1: but they got to buy kale for the salad bowl. 566 00:27:05,650 --> 00:27:08,869 Speaker 2: So that's why we realize that there must be innovation. So, 567 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,729 Speaker 2: for example, we converted the vegetables to gelatos. 568 00:27:12,030 --> 00:27:14,290 Speaker 2: So the more gelatos you eat, the more vegetables you 569 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:17,459 Speaker 2: buy and then we actually convert them. That's one way. Ok. Right. 570 00:27:17,469 --> 00:27:20,069 Speaker 2: And then we have to simplify vegetables 571 00:27:20,329 --> 00:27:22,819 Speaker 1: in a way. you are adapting what you're selling to 572 00:27:22,829 --> 00:27:24,790 Speaker 1: suit changing trends. 573 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,270 Speaker 2: There is a growing number of people willing to pay 574 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,949 Speaker 2: more to support local. That's why the statistics come about. Right. 575 00:27:31,959 --> 00:27:34,430 Speaker 2: But the question is that if you dig deeper, how much, 576 00:27:34,439 --> 00:27:38,069 Speaker 2: what is their lifestyle like? What do they really want? So, William, 577 00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:38,630 Speaker 1: what about you? 578 00:27:39,020 --> 00:27:41,079 Speaker 1: Well, I would say that we should look at the 579 00:27:41,089 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: food security more on from the integrated 580 00:27:45,770 --> 00:27:49,310 Speaker 1: perspective. It's not just about farmer, it's not just about consumer, 581 00:27:49,319 --> 00:27:52,479 Speaker 1: it's not just about technology, we need to, you know, 582 00:27:52,489 --> 00:27:56,869 Speaker 1: work together and find solutions that are suitable for enhance 583 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:02,229 Speaker 1: Singapore's farm farm you and provide a proper nutrition for population. 584 00:28:02,239 --> 00:28:04,579 Speaker 1: I think with a collective effort, we should be able 585 00:28:04,589 --> 00:28:05,390 Speaker 1: to achieve that. 586 00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:10,669 Speaker 2: OK. So Steve, please buy locally produced vegetables. 587 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,670 Speaker 1: Actually, I don't really like vegetables. 588 00:28:15,020 --> 00:28:21,319 Speaker 2: Do not listen to him. Thank you for coming on 589 00:28:21,329 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 2: and explaining to us. I do think that in this case, 590 00:28:24,369 --> 00:28:27,500 Speaker 2: the 90% is not a good score for us, right. 591 00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 2: Usually 90% is good. But the more than 90% to 592 00:28:30,650 --> 00:28:30,849 Speaker 2: me 593 00:28:31,094 --> 00:28:35,625 Speaker 2: is quite scary. And this 3030 goal and food security 594 00:28:35,635 --> 00:28:39,474 Speaker 2: is really like an insurance. So we are actually investing 595 00:28:39,484 --> 00:28:42,645 Speaker 2: in ourselves right in our future. So that's what I 596 00:28:42,655 --> 00:28:43,724 Speaker 2: took away from 597 00:28:43,734 --> 00:28:45,525 Speaker 1: it in the back of my head. Just tell ourselves 598 00:28:45,655 --> 00:28:48,084 Speaker 1: food security. Remember, you know what if one day 599 00:28:48,540 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: this stops being imported, what will you do? I think 600 00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:54,479 Speaker 1: we will start shopping a little bit differently at the supermarket. 601 00:28:54,489 --> 00:28:56,260 Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for coming in for sharing 602 00:28:56,270 --> 00:28:58,619 Speaker 1: your thoughts with us. If you guys have any thoughts 603 00:28:58,630 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 1: on what you've heard or you can drop us a comment. 604 00:29:00,489 --> 00:29:02,910 Speaker 1: This will go out on youtube but also on Spotify 605 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your usual good podcasts. I want 606 00:29:07,010 --> 00:29:09,709 Speaker 1: to say thanks to the team, team behind this production, Tiffany, Ianni, 607 00:29:10,439 --> 00:29:13,510 Speaker 1: Johari Jo and Chas Win and Rossley put a and 608 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:14,380 Speaker 1: I guess that's it for now. 609 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,339 Speaker 2: Till next week. Eat your vegetables. 610 00:29:16,569 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: Bye for now.