1 00:00:03,559 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,359 Speaker 2: Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Deep Dive podcast. Hi Steve. Hello. 3 00:00:12,439 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 2: How have you been? It's been good. Good. When you 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: lead in like that and like a question is coming, 5 00:00:17,090 --> 00:00:20,149 Speaker 2: I know I can feel it already. Yes, the question is, 6 00:00:20,399 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 2: when was the last time you saw a movie in 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:27,399 Speaker 2: a theater? Or like at the cinema. I think like pre-COVID, pre-COVID. 8 00:00:27,799 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: No idea what I watch. So where do you watch 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,439 Speaker 2: your movies? Just at home, streaming service, you know, I've 10 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:34,638 Speaker 2: got a big enough TV at home in the comfort 11 00:00:34,639 --> 00:00:36,318 Speaker 2: of my own home. It's good enough for me. 12 00:00:37,132 --> 00:00:39,652 Speaker 2: nights, but only at home. Don't pay for tickets. It's 13 00:00:39,652 --> 00:00:41,972 Speaker 2: more the hassle of going out and usually it's like 14 00:00:41,972 --> 00:00:44,733 Speaker 2: a Friday night and I think of the crowds. Well, 15 00:00:44,853 --> 00:00:48,533 Speaker 2: I'm like, go for what? That's that's my question. What 16 00:00:48,533 --> 00:00:52,882 Speaker 2: value do they have to my movie experience? You know what, 17 00:00:53,173 --> 00:00:54,963 Speaker 2: I make it a point to go to the cinema, 18 00:00:55,542 --> 00:00:59,652 Speaker 2: especially if it's a movie that's hugely anticipated. OK, so 19 00:00:59,652 --> 00:01:03,812 Speaker 2: the last one you saw was Conclave. Highly recommended. I 20 00:01:03,812 --> 00:01:05,212 Speaker 2: feel that the cinema experience. 21 00:01:05,316 --> 00:01:09,426 Speaker 2: Special. And that's what resonated with me with the speech 22 00:01:09,426 --> 00:01:12,625 Speaker 2: that Sean Baker, the best director winner at the Oscars, 23 00:01:12,746 --> 00:01:16,005 Speaker 2: just recently gave. He said that in the darkened theater, 24 00:01:16,106 --> 00:01:19,225 Speaker 2: you laugh, you cry, you scream with random strangers, right? 25 00:01:19,334 --> 00:01:23,584 Speaker 2: It's a common experience. And come on, when you're dating, Steve, 26 00:01:23,944 --> 00:01:27,545 Speaker 2: you got to have the experience of watching a movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, 27 00:01:27,725 --> 00:01:30,184 Speaker 2: fair enough. That one I did, yeah, right? I mean, 28 00:01:30,386 --> 00:01:33,565 Speaker 2: because at that time there were no streaming services, you know. 29 00:01:34,889 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 2: And the cinema is one of those places you can 30 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 2: practice that yawn and stretch your arm out behind the girl. Exactly. 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,519 Speaker 2: But you know what, I laugh and cry at home 32 00:01:41,519 --> 00:01:44,279 Speaker 2: too when I watch the movie, so I don't need 33 00:01:44,279 --> 00:01:46,639 Speaker 2: to be in the cinema, and I think that's a 34 00:01:46,639 --> 00:01:49,639 Speaker 2: question here. The the cinemas are really struggling today, right? Yeah, 35 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: because of people like you. OK, quick recap, uh, Cathay 36 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: Cineplex was the latest to run into financial trouble. 37 00:01:56,135 --> 00:01:58,764 Speaker 2: It shut down one of its outlets last year, I 38 00:01:58,764 --> 00:02:03,135 Speaker 2: Was WE Cinemas also ceased operations. They had been around 39 00:02:03,135 --> 00:02:06,135 Speaker 2: for 80 years and they sold it off. Shaw Theaters 40 00:02:06,135 --> 00:02:09,014 Speaker 2: has closed its outlet at Seletar Mall after 10 years 41 00:02:09,014 --> 00:02:11,934 Speaker 2: of operation. That's bad. So what's happening, right? Why are 42 00:02:11,934 --> 00:02:15,535 Speaker 2: fewer Singaporeans watching movies in the cinemas and what can 43 00:02:15,535 --> 00:02:16,895 Speaker 2: be done to bring them back? 44 00:02:19,899 --> 00:02:23,418 Speaker 2: To help us unpack this, we have Ben Slater, writer, 45 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:26,978 Speaker 2: editor and senior lecturer at NTU School of Art Design 46 00:02:26,979 --> 00:02:31,050 Speaker 2: and Media. Hi, Ben. Hello, hello. And Karen Tan, co-founder 47 00:02:31,050 --> 00:02:34,500 Speaker 2: of independent cinema operator, The Projector. Hi there. Thanks for 48 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:37,220 Speaker 2: having me. Let's start with the numbers. Numbers are showing 49 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:40,570 Speaker 2: that cinema attendance has actually been declining. People have been 50 00:02:40,940 --> 00:02:44,940 Speaker 2: resuming other activities after COVID, you know, things like traveling, 51 00:02:45,139 --> 00:02:47,479 Speaker 2: going to concerts, those are the things, but 52 00:02:47,860 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 2: What's different about going to the cinema? Why hasn't that 53 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,169 Speaker 2: come back? Let's talk about number of tickets sold a year, 54 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,559 Speaker 2: for example. So in 2018 and 2019 thereabouts, good sample 55 00:02:58,559 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 2: of pre-COVID we were looking at, I think about 19 56 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: to 21, so say about average 20 million tickets. 57 00:03:05,149 --> 00:03:08,940 Speaker 2: It sold a year. What are we now? 2023, which 58 00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:11,699 Speaker 2: is the latest stats from IMDA. We are looking at 59 00:03:11,699 --> 00:03:13,978 Speaker 2: about 10 million tickets all the year. So that's a 60 00:03:13,979 --> 00:03:17,860 Speaker 2: clear halving. 2024, I think when on speaking to the 61 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:21,139 Speaker 2: other operators, they kind of largely experienced the further drop 62 00:03:21,139 --> 00:03:22,489 Speaker 2: from 2023. 63 00:03:22,770 --> 00:03:25,460 Speaker 2: So there's a bit of a trend there. why do 64 00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:27,740 Speaker 2: you think this is happening? Ever since COVID and that 65 00:03:27,740 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 2: people have been back out going for concerts, events, why 66 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 2: not the cinema. Yeah, there's a fair amount of revenge 67 00:03:33,119 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: spending and revenge partying going on. Fundamentally, there's the rise 68 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: of streaming, behavior patterns have changed. 69 00:03:39,619 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: The consumption of film is now people don't just consume 70 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,039 Speaker 2: it on large screen anymore, they consume it on small 71 00:03:45,039 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: screens and also from the comfort of the home. And 72 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,559 Speaker 2: there's also a lot more to choose from. The streamers 73 00:03:52,559 --> 00:03:54,839 Speaker 2: have also kind of upped their budget in terms of 74 00:03:54,839 --> 00:03:57,479 Speaker 2: content production. So it's a shame because some of the 75 00:03:57,479 --> 00:04:01,139 Speaker 2: stuff that's been produced would look fantastic on large screen, 76 00:04:01,479 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: you know, but they don't actually get consumed on large screens. 77 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 2: So they look fantastic on a large screen, but at home. 78 00:04:06,251 --> 00:04:09,162 Speaker 2: They just look good. So in a way, it's good 79 00:04:09,162 --> 00:04:11,591 Speaker 2: enough and enjoy my movies, but I don't need it 80 00:04:11,591 --> 00:04:13,682 Speaker 2: to sound like amazing. I'm not that kind of guy, 81 00:04:13,761 --> 00:04:16,201 Speaker 2: you know, but there is a key factor in the 82 00:04:16,201 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: moviegoing experience that you're missing out on, which is the 83 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,641 Speaker 2: communal experience. OK, you gotta tell me that because it 84 00:04:21,641 --> 00:04:24,481 Speaker 2: is because of the communal experience that I stay home. Well, 85 00:04:24,761 --> 00:04:27,562 Speaker 2: that may be telling us a lot about your personality. 86 00:04:29,122 --> 00:04:32,041 Speaker 2: He has a problem with the dirty. I'm an extrovert. 87 00:04:32,082 --> 00:04:32,761 Speaker 2: I love socializing. 88 00:04:32,894 --> 00:04:35,204 Speaker 2: But thousands of people have sat in the seat. I 89 00:04:35,204 --> 00:04:36,444 Speaker 2: go there and one of the guy next to me 90 00:04:36,444 --> 00:04:38,164 Speaker 2: is talking all the time throughout the movie going, Oh, 91 00:04:38,243 --> 00:04:40,044 Speaker 2: did you see what happened there? What happened in that part? 92 00:04:40,204 --> 00:04:45,153 Speaker 2: There is something really wonderful about everybody being sharing a film, right? 93 00:04:45,213 --> 00:04:48,843 Speaker 2: And that that could be something incredibly emotional. That could 94 00:04:48,843 --> 00:04:52,144 Speaker 2: be something really scary. It could be something terrifically in 95 00:04:52,144 --> 00:04:54,164 Speaker 2: like when you laugh and everyone laughs at the same 96 00:04:54,164 --> 00:04:58,234 Speaker 2: time exactly or even just that feeling when everyone goes 97 00:04:58,234 --> 00:04:59,444 Speaker 2: completely quiet because something. 98 00:04:59,726 --> 00:05:03,045 Speaker 2: really incredible happens on screen. We're talking about the Oscars 99 00:05:03,045 --> 00:05:05,365 Speaker 2: and the end of Anora, which is the film that 100 00:05:05,365 --> 00:05:09,915 Speaker 2: won the the best that has an incredible quiet ending, 101 00:05:09,966 --> 00:05:13,924 Speaker 2: which is absolutely devastating. And I think you wouldn't feel 102 00:05:13,925 --> 00:05:16,765 Speaker 2: that emotional state if you just watched it at home 103 00:05:16,765 --> 00:05:19,276 Speaker 2: and you, you were pausing for your pee breaks and 104 00:05:19,276 --> 00:05:21,765 Speaker 2: grabbing your wine or your beer. But once you're all 105 00:05:21,765 --> 00:05:24,085 Speaker 2: there in that room and you're all sharing something together, 106 00:05:24,165 --> 00:05:26,075 Speaker 2: you're going through this experience together. 107 00:05:26,339 --> 00:05:30,690 Speaker 2: I think that's really an amazing experience. Yeah, but the 108 00:05:30,690 --> 00:05:35,570 Speaker 2: competitor is formidable, right? Your Netflix and your Disney. I 109 00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:38,409 Speaker 2: do want to offer one tiny bit of historical perspective, 110 00:05:38,649 --> 00:05:40,609 Speaker 2: which is that actually this sort of up and down 111 00:05:40,609 --> 00:05:44,399 Speaker 2: cycle in cinema attendance is not new, right? And it's 112 00:05:44,399 --> 00:05:47,808 Speaker 2: not new internationally, it's also not new in Singapore. Singapore 113 00:05:47,809 --> 00:05:51,250 Speaker 2: moviegoing attendance has always traditionally been very, very high. There's 114 00:05:51,250 --> 00:05:52,049 Speaker 2: a big audience. 115 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,079 Speaker 2: and the density of population, the amount of cinemas. So 116 00:05:55,079 --> 00:05:57,260 Speaker 2: it kind of reached a peak in the late 70s. 117 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,970 Speaker 2: And then with home video, it kind of went down. 118 00:06:00,089 --> 00:06:03,070 Speaker 2: And in the 80s people were having the same conversations, 119 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 2: cinemas going, places were closing down. In this case, I 120 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:08,959 Speaker 2: think it's here to stay, because in the past, we 121 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 2: went to the cinemas because we couldn't get the movies 122 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 2: anywhere else. Now some of the movies go direct to 123 00:06:14,359 --> 00:06:16,969 Speaker 2: streaming services. They don't even make it to the cinemas. 124 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: So again, 125 00:06:18,079 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: I am spoiled for choice as a home viewer. I 126 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: don't need the the ecosystem is changing the ecosystem is changing. 127 00:06:24,119 --> 00:06:26,368 Speaker 2: One can also argue that there is a place for 128 00:06:26,369 --> 00:06:29,730 Speaker 2: cinema going and we'll continue to do so because it's 129 00:06:29,730 --> 00:06:32,929 Speaker 2: also a social experience, but you can't replicate at home 130 00:06:32,928 --> 00:06:35,209 Speaker 2: on your laptop. Yeah, you go with someone, you spend 131 00:06:35,209 --> 00:06:37,209 Speaker 2: 5 minutes talking to them, the movie starts, you're like, OK, 132 00:06:37,488 --> 00:06:39,899 Speaker 2: no talking. And then for 2 hours you sit in silence. 133 00:06:41,359 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: Here's the thing, that's the typical Singapore moviegoing experience. 134 00:06:46,101 --> 00:06:48,731 Speaker 2: Maybe 2 minutes before it starts because you want to 135 00:06:48,731 --> 00:06:51,101 Speaker 2: skip all the ads. You go in, you watch the thing, 136 00:06:51,141 --> 00:06:55,582 Speaker 2: you get ejected into some soulless, like fluorescently lit facilities 137 00:06:55,582 --> 00:07:03,541 Speaker 2: corridor and you go home, right? That's that's exactly right. However, 138 00:07:03,552 --> 00:07:06,742 Speaker 2: the lobby. However, it doesn't have to be that way. 139 00:07:06,782 --> 00:07:08,921 Speaker 2: And which is why at the projector, we look at 140 00:07:08,921 --> 00:07:11,821 Speaker 2: what we're creating our products not film, our product is 141 00:07:11,821 --> 00:07:13,261 Speaker 2: an experience and a social experience. 142 00:07:13,834 --> 00:07:16,834 Speaker 2: So typically people come about half an hour before they 143 00:07:16,834 --> 00:07:19,003 Speaker 2: get great food and drink, and then they make their 144 00:07:19,003 --> 00:07:21,553 Speaker 2: way into the theater and after that, they hang out 145 00:07:21,553 --> 00:07:25,873 Speaker 2: at the bar with your friends, you know, and they 146 00:07:25,873 --> 00:07:29,074 Speaker 2: have a night out. So it's a whole social experience 147 00:07:29,074 --> 00:07:30,914 Speaker 2: that you can't have at home. That's unique to what 148 00:07:30,914 --> 00:07:33,514 Speaker 2: the projector is doing for the typical cinema in Singapore, 149 00:07:33,553 --> 00:07:36,074 Speaker 2: they still don't do that. They could learn some things 150 00:07:36,074 --> 00:07:38,473 Speaker 2: from the projector. I think the commercial cinemas like we're 151 00:07:38,473 --> 00:07:40,723 Speaker 2: hearing from Cafe and MM2. 152 00:07:41,135 --> 00:07:42,846 Speaker 2: They're like closing down and they're saying, please come to 153 00:07:42,846 --> 00:07:45,446 Speaker 2: our cinemas, remember the past, remember how great Cafe used 154 00:07:45,446 --> 00:07:48,286 Speaker 2: to be. But they can also be changing up their offering. 155 00:07:48,406 --> 00:07:53,115 Speaker 2: I mean, food in commercial cinemas is terrible, right? It's overpriced, 156 00:07:53,165 --> 00:07:56,365 Speaker 2: it's bland, it's not progressed anywhere for for 20 years. 157 00:07:56,605 --> 00:07:59,006 Speaker 2: Whereas the projector is like really, really good food. That's 158 00:07:59,006 --> 00:08:01,566 Speaker 2: one thing, the whole experience of it. But do you 159 00:08:01,566 --> 00:08:03,965 Speaker 2: need to have more bells and whistles? I'm thinking if 160 00:08:03,966 --> 00:08:05,686 Speaker 2: I go to the cinema, it's because I can't get 161 00:08:05,686 --> 00:08:08,726 Speaker 2: this experience at home, whereas maybe like virtual reality. I'm. 162 00:08:09,290 --> 00:08:11,529 Speaker 2: Thrown into the movie. I'm in the jeep driving with 163 00:08:11,529 --> 00:08:13,890 Speaker 2: the guys. I can smell the jungle air. I like 164 00:08:13,890 --> 00:08:21,970 Speaker 2: that that you cannot replicate anywhere else. Therefore, it's a 165 00:08:21,970 --> 00:08:24,529 Speaker 2: destination that I visit because I know that experience would 166 00:08:24,529 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: be uniquely different. There's been a long tradition as cinema 167 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,419 Speaker 2: traditionally has competed with other things like television and and 168 00:08:32,419 --> 00:08:33,260 Speaker 2: the home video. 169 00:08:33,718 --> 00:08:35,718 Speaker 2: They've always tried to add in these bells and whistles, 170 00:08:35,758 --> 00:08:38,458 Speaker 2: so we had IMAX and we've got the 4DX sound 171 00:08:38,458 --> 00:08:40,789 Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. But at some point, 172 00:08:40,879 --> 00:08:44,169 Speaker 2: those are novelties. You remember 3D, you remember Avatar and 173 00:08:44,169 --> 00:08:47,588 Speaker 2: how everyone thought that that was gonna be the norm, 174 00:08:47,879 --> 00:08:50,198 Speaker 2: you know, that all big blockbuster movies would be in 175 00:08:50,198 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 2: this 3D format and you'd pay more. It was a 176 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,238 Speaker 2: more expensive ticket. And that kind of went away because 177 00:08:55,239 --> 00:08:59,267 Speaker 2: they're fun, but they are novelties, but the core experience 178 00:08:59,268 --> 00:09:00,078 Speaker 2: of shared. 179 00:09:00,265 --> 00:09:04,005 Speaker 2: sharing the movie emotionally with other people and being around 180 00:09:04,005 --> 00:09:05,845 Speaker 2: other people, that doesn't go away. And I think when 181 00:09:05,846 --> 00:09:08,606 Speaker 2: people like it, they will keep coming back. So with 182 00:09:08,606 --> 00:09:11,395 Speaker 2: the projector, there is definitely a core audience that keep 183 00:09:11,395 --> 00:09:14,245 Speaker 2: coming and really like what you offer. And that used 184 00:09:14,245 --> 00:09:17,036 Speaker 2: to be the case with commercial cinemas in Singapore. You know, 185 00:09:17,085 --> 00:09:19,846 Speaker 2: I remember at the weekends, even in the early 2000s 186 00:09:19,846 --> 00:09:23,445 Speaker 2: and later on Orchard Road, every screen was pretty much 187 00:09:23,445 --> 00:09:26,096 Speaker 2: full on Saturday night because people would go out, they 188 00:09:26,096 --> 00:09:26,726 Speaker 2: would drink lots. 189 00:09:26,971 --> 00:09:30,210 Speaker 2: coffee and ice blended drinks with their friends, and these 190 00:09:30,211 --> 00:09:32,132 Speaker 2: are young people and then they would go up and 191 00:09:32,131 --> 00:09:34,790 Speaker 2: watch the late movies and there was a real buzz 192 00:09:34,791 --> 00:09:36,892 Speaker 2: to that and it was partly a social thing, but 193 00:09:36,892 --> 00:09:39,170 Speaker 2: it was also it's an artistic thing. You're getting to 194 00:09:39,171 --> 00:09:42,572 Speaker 2: see really good films as well. Yeah, OK, but I 195 00:09:42,572 --> 00:09:45,361 Speaker 2: want to come back to the business model, Karen, for 196 00:09:45,361 --> 00:09:49,012 Speaker 2: the projector. What have you learned running this business, right? 197 00:09:49,171 --> 00:09:52,321 Speaker 2: Movies and making it more than just coming in, watching 198 00:09:52,322 --> 00:09:53,331 Speaker 2: a movie and getting out. 199 00:09:53,900 --> 00:09:56,228 Speaker 2: What have you learned in the process that it can 200 00:09:56,229 --> 00:09:59,939 Speaker 2: be done, can it be reversed? I blunt. How are 201 00:09:59,940 --> 00:10:02,549 Speaker 2: you guys doing financially? Are you finding that to make 202 00:10:02,549 --> 00:10:05,728 Speaker 2: it work just to break even is a tough sells 203 00:10:05,729 --> 00:10:07,419 Speaker 2: hard at the moment. You've got to work like 3 204 00:10:07,419 --> 00:10:09,859 Speaker 2: times as hard to earn what you used to, that's 205 00:10:09,859 --> 00:10:13,218 Speaker 2: for sure. Forget about just the cinema landscape in general. 206 00:10:13,340 --> 00:10:16,330 Speaker 2: I think a lot of businesses are suffering from post-COVID inflation. 207 00:10:16,900 --> 00:10:19,900 Speaker 2: We talk about rent is primarily one of the biggest 208 00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:23,419 Speaker 2: contributors to cost. That hasn't come down. In fact, that's 209 00:10:23,419 --> 00:10:26,500 Speaker 2: actually how much the ticket cost at the projector. At 210 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:29,659 Speaker 2: the moment, on the weekends, 16. Yeah, that's about the same, 211 00:10:31,770 --> 00:10:34,539 Speaker 2: so cost is one of the things. If you have 212 00:10:34,539 --> 00:10:37,569 Speaker 2: a family, it adds up, right? But cinemas are space dependent. 213 00:10:37,950 --> 00:10:41,059 Speaker 2: And we know that in Singapore space means rent and 214 00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:44,459 Speaker 2: pretty much you have they're actually, you know, the one 215 00:10:44,460 --> 00:10:47,619 Speaker 2: commercial tenant that has the largest footprint, right? It's different 216 00:10:47,619 --> 00:10:50,500 Speaker 2: if you're running a cafe. So rent plays a big part. 217 00:10:50,780 --> 00:10:53,460 Speaker 2: Now we've got like manpower costs on the rise as well, 218 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,580 Speaker 2: utilities costs like you name it, how long is a 219 00:10:55,580 --> 00:10:56,239 Speaker 2: piece of string. 220 00:10:57,049 --> 00:10:59,130 Speaker 2: This is what I'm saying, especially if you're an SME 221 00:10:59,130 --> 00:11:02,140 Speaker 2: in the that's your challenge in terms of the cost. 222 00:11:02,489 --> 00:11:06,169 Speaker 2: But for the home viewer, you know, they're thinking $16 223 00:11:06,169 --> 00:11:09,250 Speaker 2: for a ticket, $16 for a monthly subscription. I can 224 00:11:09,250 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: watch like multiple shows. Sure. And I do see that 225 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,859 Speaker 2: actually it's a competition for for people's time and attention. 226 00:11:16,309 --> 00:11:18,819 Speaker 2: You know, with the rise of social media, doom scrolling, 227 00:11:18,849 --> 00:11:21,010 Speaker 2: binge watching, we've all been there, done that. It's kind 228 00:11:21,010 --> 00:11:22,169 Speaker 2: of like normal practice now. 229 00:11:22,450 --> 00:11:24,750 Speaker 2: But I do see that there's still a place for 230 00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:26,830 Speaker 2: people who want to go out. People still do want 231 00:11:26,830 --> 00:11:28,590 Speaker 2: to go out. You spend half your time on your screens, 232 00:11:28,669 --> 00:11:30,989 Speaker 2: you have time, you're working from home. You want a 233 00:11:30,989 --> 00:11:33,590 Speaker 2: social experience, and that is there and available for you 234 00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:36,150 Speaker 2: at the cinema, you know, and so I don't think 235 00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:38,150 Speaker 2: that need is a basic human need. I don't think 236 00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:41,469 Speaker 2: that's going away anytime soon. I think the streaming thing 237 00:11:41,469 --> 00:11:44,270 Speaker 2: has been a bit exaggerated, but that's really totally changed. 238 00:11:44,309 --> 00:11:46,349 Speaker 2: You know, you talk about $16. People used to pay 239 00:11:46,349 --> 00:11:49,270 Speaker 2: like 50 to $60 for their StarHub subscription. I mean, 240 00:11:49,469 --> 00:11:50,299 Speaker 2: and mostly what 241 00:11:50,352 --> 00:11:52,982 Speaker 2: People are streaming is TV shows, right? But they're they're 242 00:11:52,982 --> 00:11:56,302 Speaker 2: streaming the latest series of something. There are movies on streaming, 243 00:11:56,343 --> 00:11:59,062 Speaker 2: but it's not really a primary offering. If you think 244 00:11:59,062 --> 00:12:01,252 Speaker 2: about the big Oscar films this year that were nominated 245 00:12:01,252 --> 00:12:05,263 Speaker 2: for the big prizes, most of them aren't streaming. And 246 00:12:05,263 --> 00:12:07,142 Speaker 2: so if you want to be up to date with 247 00:12:07,143 --> 00:12:09,421 Speaker 2: that conversation, you have to go and see them in 248 00:12:09,422 --> 00:12:12,343 Speaker 2: the cinema. And thankfully that's still the case. They're still 249 00:12:12,343 --> 00:12:15,102 Speaker 2: protecting those films and making sure that they are in 250 00:12:15,102 --> 00:12:17,502 Speaker 2: the big screen, which is what the filmmakers want when 251 00:12:17,502 --> 00:12:18,102 Speaker 2: she mentioned a few. 252 00:12:18,296 --> 00:12:20,415 Speaker 2: Names of the Oscars and you know, these winners. I 253 00:12:20,416 --> 00:12:23,096 Speaker 2: never heard of the movies. I've not been following and 254 00:12:23,096 --> 00:12:26,434 Speaker 2: keeping up. So until it arrives here in Singapore shores 255 00:12:26,434 --> 00:12:28,416 Speaker 2: or at the cinema, then I'll go, oh, conclave, let 256 00:12:28,416 --> 00:12:30,655 Speaker 2: me Google that. What is that about? And I didn't 257 00:12:30,655 --> 00:12:32,335 Speaker 2: watch the Oscars. I mean, it's kind of fun, you know, 258 00:12:32,535 --> 00:12:34,976 Speaker 2: I'll read up some news, but I got to think 259 00:12:34,976 --> 00:12:37,846 Speaker 2: that I represent at least a certain percentage of the 260 00:12:37,846 --> 00:12:40,306 Speaker 2: population who is not in the know when it comes 261 00:12:40,306 --> 00:12:43,776 Speaker 2: to the scene. So to them they're saying, what's the 262 00:12:43,776 --> 00:12:46,015 Speaker 2: big deal? People might be coming out less. 263 00:12:46,179 --> 00:12:47,968 Speaker 2: But I do think let's say going to the cinema 264 00:12:47,968 --> 00:12:50,369 Speaker 2: is now a bit more of a destination, an event, 265 00:12:50,609 --> 00:12:53,328 Speaker 2: it's an occasion thing, right, which means that if you're 266 00:12:53,328 --> 00:12:56,179 Speaker 2: not doing it that often, you're then therefore also prepared 267 00:12:56,179 --> 00:12:59,007 Speaker 2: to spend more, you know, if it's an occasion. So 268 00:12:59,008 --> 00:13:01,008 Speaker 2: from the operator point of view, they have to think 269 00:13:01,008 --> 00:13:03,578 Speaker 2: through a few of these things, right? It's not just 270 00:13:03,578 --> 00:13:05,888 Speaker 2: the movie you're screening. It could be even the type 271 00:13:05,888 --> 00:13:08,448 Speaker 2: of films, right? For the GBs and the shows of 272 00:13:08,448 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 2: the world, it's all your Marvel movies and all your 273 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,008 Speaker 2: big blockbusters, but there's scope for independence. 274 00:13:14,091 --> 00:13:16,481 Speaker 2: The niche films like the projector has shown. Do you 275 00:13:16,481 --> 00:13:19,202 Speaker 2: think that that's kind of the way to go as 276 00:13:19,202 --> 00:13:22,401 Speaker 2: well to broaden the reach? I don't think that's going 277 00:13:22,401 --> 00:13:25,442 Speaker 2: to be a silver bullet because by definition, it is, 278 00:13:25,881 --> 00:13:29,111 Speaker 2: it is indie. So it's not mass market. But what 279 00:13:29,111 --> 00:13:31,202 Speaker 2: we've seen over the last 10 years is that there's 280 00:13:31,202 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: an increase in interest for non-mainstream content. In part it's 281 00:13:35,041 --> 00:13:38,721 Speaker 2: also audience education on our part, but increasingly people are 282 00:13:38,721 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: quite curious minded about watching something that they've never heard. 283 00:13:42,354 --> 00:13:46,275 Speaker 2: before that's actually a heartening trend for us in that 284 00:13:46,275 --> 00:13:50,234 Speaker 2: niche independent market because Singapore is so small, the question is, 285 00:13:50,275 --> 00:13:53,075 Speaker 2: what shall we do this weekend? stuck for like what 286 00:13:53,075 --> 00:13:55,914 Speaker 2: to do. So something novel, interesting projector says it's a 287 00:13:55,914 --> 00:13:59,965 Speaker 2: movie about and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, you have festivals, right? 288 00:14:00,034 --> 00:14:01,835 Speaker 2: So the other thing that we do quite a lot 289 00:14:01,835 --> 00:14:04,825 Speaker 2: is we lack of a better term, we eventize films. 290 00:14:04,914 --> 00:14:06,914 Speaker 2: So for example, we what we like to do is 291 00:14:06,914 --> 00:14:09,784 Speaker 2: to have like a director's Q&A after, for example. 292 00:14:10,109 --> 00:14:11,859 Speaker 2: You know, he could zoom in from wherever he is 293 00:14:11,859 --> 00:14:13,739 Speaker 2: in the world and speak to the audience and answer 294 00:14:13,739 --> 00:14:16,309 Speaker 2: questions about the film. Or for example, if we're showing 295 00:14:16,309 --> 00:14:18,580 Speaker 2: a film about cats, and we pair it up with 296 00:14:18,580 --> 00:14:20,229 Speaker 2: the cat welfare Society and do fun things like that, 297 00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:23,580 Speaker 2: and they do a cat adoption drive and you have 298 00:14:23,580 --> 00:14:27,859 Speaker 2: like tens in the foyer. So it becomes a much 299 00:14:27,859 --> 00:14:30,299 Speaker 2: larger experience than just coming in and just watching a 300 00:14:30,299 --> 00:14:30,780 Speaker 2: film and lead. 301 00:14:31,385 --> 00:14:35,234 Speaker 2: Um, and hopefully it's also thought provoking as well. I 302 00:14:35,234 --> 00:14:37,575 Speaker 2: also want to say something about you showing older films, 303 00:14:38,065 --> 00:14:40,705 Speaker 2: because I teach students, I teach younger people, and I 304 00:14:40,705 --> 00:14:44,145 Speaker 2: think they're really aware that now more than ever that 305 00:14:44,145 --> 00:14:46,945 Speaker 2: like watching an old film, a classic old film on 306 00:14:46,945 --> 00:14:50,174 Speaker 2: their phone or the iPad or the laptop, they're not 307 00:14:50,174 --> 00:14:51,585 Speaker 2: really getting the full experience. 308 00:14:51,950 --> 00:14:54,710 Speaker 2: And so to be able to go and watch like 309 00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:57,950 Speaker 2: classic old movies like the Kura retrospective that we did. 310 00:14:58,030 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: I was thinking of that because I went to see 311 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,270 Speaker 2: Seven Samurai and it was on a Saturday afternoon. It 312 00:15:02,270 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: was pretty full and there was people there with their families, 313 00:15:07,109 --> 00:15:11,549 Speaker 2: obviously older people bringing their older kids, small kids, but 314 00:15:11,549 --> 00:15:13,590 Speaker 2: maybe their teenage son and daughter saying, hey, you should 315 00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:14,710 Speaker 2: watch this film, it's really good. 316 00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:18,900 Speaker 2: And again, back to the communal sense of enjoying the film, 317 00:15:19,109 --> 00:15:22,140 Speaker 2: that's a really special thing. And those films aren't on streaming. 318 00:15:22,309 --> 00:15:24,989 Speaker 2: To get to see those older titles and they're well 319 00:15:24,989 --> 00:15:28,229 Speaker 2: curated and they're interesting selections, sometimes not always the ones 320 00:15:28,229 --> 00:15:31,830 Speaker 2: you expect, is a really beautiful opportunity. But do you 321 00:15:31,830 --> 00:15:34,309 Speaker 2: think the audience has also changed and that the kind 322 00:15:34,309 --> 00:15:36,510 Speaker 2: of guys like you, but, I'm in a very much 323 00:15:36,510 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: a minority. 324 00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:41,450 Speaker 2: For instance, there used to be the Singapore Film Festival. 325 00:15:41,530 --> 00:15:45,159 Speaker 2: I remember when I was much younger, I I it's 326 00:15:45,159 --> 00:15:47,250 Speaker 2: still going. OK, so I haven't been in many years. 327 00:15:47,570 --> 00:15:49,729 Speaker 2: I can't help it because I've been and saw a 328 00:15:49,729 --> 00:15:53,609 Speaker 2: few movies he used to go for the Singapore Film Festival. 329 00:15:55,450 --> 00:15:57,130 Speaker 2: I did watch quite a lot of stuff, but then 330 00:15:57,130 --> 00:15:59,289 Speaker 2: after a while, it got really painful because I sat 331 00:15:59,289 --> 00:16:01,690 Speaker 2: through some movies that I thought was so agonizing. 332 00:16:02,250 --> 00:16:05,090 Speaker 2: Because they were artsy, some guy riding a motorbike up 333 00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:06,849 Speaker 2: and down the slope, they keep stalling, and he does 334 00:16:06,849 --> 00:16:09,169 Speaker 2: it for like 3 minutes. I'm like, I think I've seen, 335 00:16:09,409 --> 00:16:12,450 Speaker 2: you know, so, so I'm like, OK, I can't take this. 336 00:16:12,489 --> 00:16:14,969 Speaker 2: So as I got older, my taste also changed and 337 00:16:14,969 --> 00:16:19,330 Speaker 2: now Singapore, we're always so rushing about time is precious. 338 00:16:19,450 --> 00:16:21,570 Speaker 2: So you're thinking, if I want to get some entertainment, 339 00:16:21,650 --> 00:16:23,650 Speaker 2: I want to just go and watch a mindless movie 340 00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:26,130 Speaker 2: and and leave going ha ha, what was it about? 341 00:16:26,169 --> 00:16:27,650 Speaker 2: I don't remember, but I had a good time. But 342 00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:29,130 Speaker 2: film is a lot as well, right? 343 00:16:29,239 --> 00:16:31,510 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it can be it can be both. But 344 00:16:31,510 --> 00:16:33,869 Speaker 2: the challenge is, I think for more people, they'd be 345 00:16:33,869 --> 00:16:37,349 Speaker 2: a bit more like me than you, unfortunately, right? That 346 00:16:37,349 --> 00:16:40,210 Speaker 2: is also partly to do with the education aspect, right, of, 347 00:16:40,229 --> 00:16:42,510 Speaker 2: of making sure people are aware that all of these 348 00:16:42,510 --> 00:16:44,909 Speaker 2: different experiences are at the cinema. And it's not always 349 00:16:44,909 --> 00:16:47,380 Speaker 2: just about seeing like a really difficult art house movie, 350 00:16:47,750 --> 00:16:50,780 Speaker 2: you know, people are like also like going to see 351 00:16:50,780 --> 00:16:53,349 Speaker 2: big commercial films and and and you know, things like 352 00:16:53,349 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: horror movies, which work really well in the big screen. 353 00:16:56,690 --> 00:16:58,780 Speaker 2: You can't have that experience at home of being in 354 00:16:58,780 --> 00:17:00,820 Speaker 2: a big crowd watching a horror movie. So, so how 355 00:17:00,820 --> 00:17:03,369 Speaker 2: would you try and convince people who are listening and saying, 356 00:17:03,659 --> 00:17:05,329 Speaker 2: give me a reason to go to the cinema today? 357 00:17:05,380 --> 00:17:08,819 Speaker 2: I think we give you about 10 reasons already. Well, 358 00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:10,739 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you haven't convinced me yet, so I. 359 00:17:11,859 --> 00:17:14,780 Speaker 2: You're hard to convince Steve. What about your students, the 360 00:17:14,780 --> 00:17:18,250 Speaker 2: ones that you teach, I mean, would, would they go 361 00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:20,180 Speaker 2: to the cinema? A lot of the students I teach 362 00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:23,099 Speaker 2: are film media students, right? And I actually think the 363 00:17:23,099 --> 00:17:24,839 Speaker 2: interest is more than it used to be. And I 364 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:28,939 Speaker 2: think there's a curiosity about film that's actually growing and 365 00:17:28,939 --> 00:17:31,020 Speaker 2: an awareness that it's an art form and it's not 366 00:17:31,020 --> 00:17:34,189 Speaker 2: just about entertainment. You're mentioning the festival in the past, 367 00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:36,449 Speaker 2: really you had to wait for the festival to come 368 00:17:36,449 --> 00:17:37,739 Speaker 2: round before you could see. 369 00:17:38,156 --> 00:17:40,406 Speaker 2: Frenzy of buying tickets and then rushing around and that 370 00:17:40,826 --> 00:17:44,296 Speaker 2: that scarcity created a buzz around the festival, which was great, 371 00:17:44,465 --> 00:17:47,225 Speaker 2: but of course it's better that there are venues offering 372 00:17:47,225 --> 00:17:49,254 Speaker 2: that year round, right? And I, and I think the 373 00:17:49,255 --> 00:17:52,786 Speaker 2: students definitely a lot more open minded and because they've 374 00:17:52,786 --> 00:17:54,745 Speaker 2: grown up with the devices and they've grown up being 375 00:17:54,744 --> 00:17:57,984 Speaker 2: able to download everything, they are aware that seeing something 376 00:17:57,984 --> 00:18:00,254 Speaker 2: on the big screen is a bit of a special experience, 377 00:18:00,426 --> 00:18:03,225 Speaker 2: and they, they are drawn to it. The thing is 378 00:18:03,225 --> 00:18:04,786 Speaker 2: to build on that, right? It's. 379 00:18:04,942 --> 00:18:07,751 Speaker 2: To market to them, it's to sustain that and develop 380 00:18:07,751 --> 00:18:10,381 Speaker 2: that and make sure that we kind of keep that going. 381 00:18:10,511 --> 00:18:12,952 Speaker 2: That's right. But from a business point of view to 382 00:18:12,952 --> 00:18:18,431 Speaker 2: eventize moviegoing movie, it's a lot of work. It's a 383 00:18:18,432 --> 00:18:21,181 Speaker 2: lot of money too. Maybe your FNB can cover some 384 00:18:21,182 --> 00:18:23,541 Speaker 2: of the cost, you know, because the restaurant is so good, 385 00:18:23,991 --> 00:18:27,952 Speaker 2: you might just come have a drink instead, right? Now 386 00:18:27,952 --> 00:18:31,472 Speaker 2: we've also diversified to non-film content as well, so we do. 387 00:18:32,349 --> 00:18:35,589 Speaker 2: stand up comedy, you have like poetry slams, you have 388 00:18:35,589 --> 00:18:37,819 Speaker 2: book readings, you have all sorts of things happening as well, 389 00:18:38,020 --> 00:18:39,310 Speaker 2: wrestling matches in our in our competitions, you know, dress 390 00:18:39,310 --> 00:18:39,660 Speaker 2: up nights, all sorts of things, right? So we've got that. 391 00:18:48,670 --> 00:18:50,510 Speaker 2: And then we've got the boss, so there's some. 392 00:18:50,864 --> 00:18:54,025 Speaker 2: revenue as well. And the third pillars actually, and something 393 00:18:54,025 --> 00:18:56,905 Speaker 2: that we've seen pick up is what we call venue hire, 394 00:18:56,984 --> 00:18:59,045 Speaker 2: which is a third party coming in like corporates like 395 00:18:59,045 --> 00:19:01,864 Speaker 2: to hire venue, yeah, then use the space during the 396 00:19:01,864 --> 00:19:04,103 Speaker 2: day and during the time. So in that respect, then 397 00:19:04,104 --> 00:19:06,584 Speaker 2: you're kind of saying that the current model of going 398 00:19:06,584 --> 00:19:09,305 Speaker 2: to the cinema, just showing up, watching, leaving. 399 00:19:09,979 --> 00:19:12,030 Speaker 2: It sounds like it's kind of hit a dead end. 400 00:19:12,459 --> 00:19:17,579 Speaker 2: That experience is always there. And people just maybe need 401 00:19:17,579 --> 00:19:20,510 Speaker 2: more reasons to get out of the home and because 402 00:19:20,510 --> 00:19:22,099 Speaker 2: we have too many cinemas to begin with. 403 00:19:22,699 --> 00:19:25,938 Speaker 2: So it's kind of whittling down, but eventually you'll find 404 00:19:25,939 --> 00:19:28,500 Speaker 2: the number that is enough for the group that still 405 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:33,419 Speaker 2: does that. So interesting stat again, pre-COVID, there was about 406 00:19:33,420 --> 00:19:38,609 Speaker 2: maybe 270 to 280 screens in Singapore based on IMDA 407 00:19:38,609 --> 00:19:40,688 Speaker 2: so you can quote them on that. And then 408 00:19:40,734 --> 00:19:43,724 Speaker 2: Now I think in 2023, that number hasn't actually changed 409 00:19:43,724 --> 00:19:46,915 Speaker 2: very much. So if you compare that to the admits, 410 00:19:47,084 --> 00:19:49,224 Speaker 2: I suppose there would be some right what they call 411 00:19:49,224 --> 00:19:52,035 Speaker 2: right sizing to be done. But I also noticed that 412 00:19:52,045 --> 00:19:54,925 Speaker 2: that some of the cinemas rent them out to third parties, right, 413 00:19:55,005 --> 00:19:58,805 Speaker 2: like churches, for example, sometimes charity events and 414 00:19:59,199 --> 00:20:01,140 Speaker 2: So maybe that's one way they can kind of keep 415 00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:05,390 Speaker 2: afloat but still keep the core business of offering movies 416 00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:10,660 Speaker 2: still because it's such an important part of culture and 417 00:20:10,660 --> 00:20:13,869 Speaker 2: a social experience, you know. Yeah. OK, Ben, last question, 418 00:20:13,939 --> 00:20:17,020 Speaker 2: when TV first came out, people said that it would 419 00:20:17,020 --> 00:20:20,699 Speaker 2: kill the film industry. It didn't. So same thing. 420 00:20:21,859 --> 00:20:24,479 Speaker 2: That's why I say streaming, we're all getting uh kind 421 00:20:24,479 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: of really worried about streaming. I think it's that much 422 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,630 Speaker 2: different really than all of these other things that came along. 423 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 2: In a way, probably the biggest threat to cinema and 424 00:20:33,239 --> 00:20:36,319 Speaker 2: a lot of activities is the internet itself. The fact 425 00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:38,448 Speaker 2: that people are always on and can get so many 426 00:20:38,449 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: different kinds of content. I think streaming and Netflix are 427 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 2: not that much of a threat to cinema. I mean, 428 00:20:43,959 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 2: the only issue with Netflix was the fact that they 429 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,319 Speaker 2: would buy up these big movies from film festivals and. 430 00:20:48,645 --> 00:20:51,985 Speaker 2: not want to release them in the cinema, but I think, 431 00:20:52,484 --> 00:20:54,916 Speaker 2: you know, one of the things Sean Baker, director of Anora, 432 00:20:55,066 --> 00:20:57,525 Speaker 2: he kept on saying we filmmakers basically got to stand 433 00:20:57,526 --> 00:20:59,514 Speaker 2: up and say we want our films in the cinema. 434 00:20:59,686 --> 00:21:02,406 Speaker 2: And I think as people become more aware of that, 435 00:21:02,605 --> 00:21:05,086 Speaker 2: we'll see more of that happening. I think he also 436 00:21:05,086 --> 00:21:09,086 Speaker 2: mentioned like deliberately that he would continue to make films 437 00:21:09,086 --> 00:21:13,436 Speaker 2: for large screen as well to be consumed on large screen. 438 00:21:13,865 --> 00:21:15,166 Speaker 2: And that was quite a deliberate. 439 00:21:15,491 --> 00:21:18,650 Speaker 2: Intent and call. What about local filmmakers, right? I mean, 440 00:21:18,732 --> 00:21:22,291 Speaker 2: like Jack Neo's latest film actually did make money. Pretty 441 00:21:22,291 --> 00:21:25,661 Speaker 2: much all of his films make money. I would also 442 00:21:25,661 --> 00:21:27,890 Speaker 2: like to point out that one man does not an 443 00:21:27,891 --> 00:21:34,871 Speaker 2: entire filmic landscape make, but we've also seen an emergence 444 00:21:34,871 --> 00:21:39,332 Speaker 2: of more independent filmmakers in Singapore, local filmmakers in support 445 00:21:39,332 --> 00:21:42,140 Speaker 2: of the local film ecosystem. We do tend to give them. 446 00:21:42,439 --> 00:21:45,750 Speaker 2: A much longer run than the big boys. And we 447 00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:49,430 Speaker 2: do actually see interest from the public, you know, to 448 00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:51,589 Speaker 2: not just consume the film but also get to know 449 00:21:51,589 --> 00:21:55,780 Speaker 2: the filmmakers themselves. I do love watching movies. I will, 450 00:21:56,329 --> 00:21:59,229 Speaker 2: I will go I will go again to find that 451 00:21:59,229 --> 00:22:00,829 Speaker 2: experience and see if it's still, you know. 452 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,329 Speaker 2: Trigger something in me, makes me go, whoa, it's kind 453 00:22:04,329 --> 00:22:06,530 Speaker 2: of cool to be here, you know. To summarize, guys, 454 00:22:06,609 --> 00:22:10,979 Speaker 2: any last pitch you would like to say. I would say, look, 455 00:22:11,290 --> 00:22:14,849 Speaker 2: I think streaming and social media and and all that, 456 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,239 Speaker 2: that's here to stay, you know, that's not going away. 457 00:22:17,489 --> 00:22:19,569 Speaker 2: But equally I think there is a place in one's 458 00:22:19,569 --> 00:22:21,889 Speaker 2: life and lifestyle to go to the theater. 459 00:22:21,964 --> 00:22:25,135 Speaker 2: And watch a film, principally again, because it's a social experience. 460 00:22:25,194 --> 00:22:29,675 Speaker 2: We're spending half our time inhabiting the digital realm. That's right. Equally, 461 00:22:29,714 --> 00:22:32,234 Speaker 2: we also need the in physical in real life sort 462 00:22:32,234 --> 00:22:36,435 Speaker 2: of experiences as well that as important now more than ever, actually. 463 00:22:36,594 --> 00:22:39,944 Speaker 2: People have to start young. OK. I think formative experiences, 464 00:22:40,114 --> 00:22:41,994 Speaker 2: kids going to the cinema, seeing a film for the 465 00:22:41,994 --> 00:22:42,665 Speaker 2: first time. 466 00:22:43,170 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: In a cinema in that space, the atmosphere of that space, 467 00:22:46,689 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 2: you know, that the kind of moment when the film begins, 468 00:22:48,890 --> 00:22:51,540 Speaker 2: it's very exciting. And I think once they get that 469 00:22:51,540 --> 00:22:54,369 Speaker 2: bug young, it won't go away. It's part of your 470 00:22:54,369 --> 00:22:57,849 Speaker 2: childhood memories. We're all, even you must be nostalgic about 471 00:22:57,849 --> 00:22:59,849 Speaker 2: films you saw when you were a kid. Don't answer that. 472 00:23:00,969 --> 00:23:03,839 Speaker 2: I know you're gonna say no. Uh, so that's one thing. 473 00:23:03,930 --> 00:23:08,479 Speaker 2: I also think a key thing, marketing is really challenging 474 00:23:08,739 --> 00:23:12,329 Speaker 2: in this very fragmented world. Uh, you know, I maybe 475 00:23:12,329 --> 00:23:14,050 Speaker 2: we all remember the days where we used to buy 476 00:23:14,050 --> 00:23:16,540 Speaker 2: the newspaper, open up, and the double page spread with 477 00:23:16,540 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: all of the listings, and that was just a wonderful 478 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,300 Speaker 2: thing to see it all laid out there. That's gone now. 479 00:23:22,489 --> 00:23:24,890 Speaker 2: We have to subscribe to various mailing lists and check 480 00:23:24,890 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 2: various websites to find out what's going on. 481 00:23:27,010 --> 00:23:30,290 Speaker 2: So marketing from all sides of the industry needs to 482 00:23:30,290 --> 00:23:33,688 Speaker 2: get better and sharper and more targeted so that people 483 00:23:33,689 --> 00:23:36,430 Speaker 2: know what's going on. So that whole thing needs to 484 00:23:36,430 --> 00:23:37,969 Speaker 2: get some resources behind it. 485 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 2: Because it isn't just a commercial thing, it is a 486 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 2: cultural thing and it is important. On that note, actually, 487 00:23:43,969 --> 00:23:46,718 Speaker 2: just a segue, it's a cultural thing indeed. I know 488 00:23:46,719 --> 00:23:51,198 Speaker 2: that's the recent announcement of the Singapore culture part. Can 489 00:23:51,199 --> 00:23:54,189 Speaker 2: you use it for movies? At the moment, I think not. 490 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,958 Speaker 2: And so therefore, I would suggest that that film is 491 00:23:57,959 --> 00:24:00,089 Speaker 2: firmly part of culture and. 492 00:24:00,484 --> 00:24:03,563 Speaker 2: Included in that culture pass, OK, to whoever is listening, 493 00:24:08,035 --> 00:24:10,563 Speaker 2: I totally agree with you guys because I love watching 494 00:24:10,564 --> 00:24:13,275 Speaker 2: movies so you don't have to convince me at all. 495 00:24:13,574 --> 00:24:16,754 Speaker 2: And um Sean Baker also said this, he said, parents, 496 00:24:16,964 --> 00:24:19,515 Speaker 2: bring your kids to the cinema. Yes, he did, yes. 497 00:24:19,724 --> 00:24:20,604 Speaker 2: I wasn't original. 498 00:24:23,170 --> 00:24:25,369 Speaker 2: So thank you guys. Thank you for coming on. Yeah, 499 00:24:25,489 --> 00:24:28,329 Speaker 2: so that's it for this week's deep dive. A big 500 00:24:28,329 --> 00:24:30,170 Speaker 2: shout out to our team who of course supporting us 501 00:24:30,170 --> 00:24:33,410 Speaker 2: all the time, Juani Johari, Tiffany Ang, Sa Joan Chan, 502 00:24:33,439 --> 00:24:36,010 Speaker 2: and Hanida Amin. And of course, if you have comments 503 00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:38,170 Speaker 2: or any thoughts, do drop us a note. We do 504 00:24:38,170 --> 00:24:40,339 Speaker 2: love to hear from you. See you next week. Bye.