WEBVTT - Am I Adulting Right: Can I get rich being a content creator?

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a CNA podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>If we're honest, every single one of us would admit

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<v Speaker 1>to following a social media influencer online. They may be

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<v Speaker 1>a funny personality who does bad impressions, an impossibly thin

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<v Speaker 1>model who flies business class with her pet pooch or

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<v Speaker 1>someone who tells her fellow mummies how to eat whatever

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<v Speaker 1>you want and still stay slim,

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<v Speaker 1>love them or loathe them. They are part of what

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<v Speaker 1>is now known as the creator economy. Goldman Sachs estimates

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<v Speaker 1>this could double in size to hit half a trillion

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<v Speaker 1>by 2027. And the thing is data shows that only 4%

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<v Speaker 1>of global creators make more than $100,000 a year. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's what we want to talk about today. How does

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<v Speaker 1>one create a stable income by being a content creator?

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<v Speaker 1>How do you plan your finances when you've got money

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<v Speaker 1>coming in?

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<v Speaker 1>It's me, Elizabeth Neo and thank you for listening to

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<v Speaker 1>Money Talks. I'm back with my limited series. Am I adulting? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Where I figure out some of life's money issues and

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<v Speaker 1>chat with people who may have the answers and joining

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<v Speaker 1>me to talk more about this is a local content creator,

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<v Speaker 1>Dian who runs his own multichannel network and manages other

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<v Speaker 1>content creators and,

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<v Speaker 1>and business owner Demi. So who is also the wife

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<v Speaker 1>of Tian Ha. Thank you for joining us today. I

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<v Speaker 1>just want to start off by asking the two of

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<v Speaker 1>you how you got started as a content creator or

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<v Speaker 1>an influencer. I

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<v Speaker 2>got started when I was in high school. 10 years.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, 12 years ago when I lived in Vietnam.

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<v Speaker 2>So I actually lived in Cambodia first for five years

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<v Speaker 2>and then Vietnam for six years. So we started around

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<v Speaker 2>2010

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<v Speaker 2>and the, the first video was actually a school project video.

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<v Speaker 2>And our job was to create an anti-bullying video. Then

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<v Speaker 2>we picked up some skills and then me and my

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<v Speaker 2>friends thought, hey, actually we could make this a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>So we started doing some sketches, how to cut the queue,

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<v Speaker 2>how to cut the line and even how to cross

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<v Speaker 2>the road in Vietnam. So giving tips like this, our

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<v Speaker 2>youtube channel, it took off a little and then after that,

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<v Speaker 2>I came back to Singapore

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<v Speaker 2>and I started my media agency four years later. Did

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<v Speaker 1>you think that creating videos would propel you into starting

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<v Speaker 1>your own multichannel network? You've got so many followers online,

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<v Speaker 1>you also manage other content creators. Did you ever think

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<v Speaker 1>that starting a youtube channel making videos would set you

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<v Speaker 1>on that path?

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<v Speaker 2>It initially wasn't the plan at the start, I just,

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<v Speaker 2>my dream was just to not work for anyone.

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<v Speaker 1>Ok.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, it seems to have come true for

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<v Speaker 1>you because you don't work for anyone. You work

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<v Speaker 2>for yourself. It took me a few years to realize

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<v Speaker 2>that there's no such thing as not working for anyone

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<v Speaker 2>that you will always be accountable for people in the end. I,

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<v Speaker 2>I work for work for more people.

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<v Speaker 1>Ok, Debbie. Did you always want to be a content creator?

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<v Speaker 1>I think in the

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<v Speaker 2>beginning. No. Um oh, I'm not done with my story

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<v Speaker 2>after, after high school, I started the agency and then

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<v Speaker 2>we brought in a few creators under the network. And

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<v Speaker 2>when Debbie and I first got together, I always knew

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<v Speaker 2>Debbie had what it takes to be a content creator.

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<v Speaker 2>I east her in slowly

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<v Speaker 2>and then um everything just naturally happened.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to know about getting started and, and whether

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<v Speaker 1>this was actually part of your career plan to become

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<v Speaker 1>a content creator and make that like a full time job. Oh, definitely.

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<v Speaker 2>It was never in my plans and I'm, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>a person that plans very, very fine to the future.

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<v Speaker 2>And I took it one step at a time. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>when we first met, when we fell in love,

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<v Speaker 2>it was just me going to school and stuff and

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<v Speaker 2>we started the cafe business when I was in school.

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<v Speaker 2>So at that point of time, I was helping to

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<v Speaker 2>manage the cafe. And then slowly, slowly, we just eased

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<v Speaker 2>into it. He was asking me to appear in some

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<v Speaker 2>of the videos and that's where like started to pick

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<v Speaker 2>up and I started to get my own like audience

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<v Speaker 2>and

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<v Speaker 1>followers. So which point did you find that? Hey, actually,

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<v Speaker 1>I can make this into a job that brings me

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<v Speaker 1>an income?

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<v Speaker 2>I think when their clients started coming in, when the

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<v Speaker 2>brand start working with

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<v Speaker 1>her for you, when did you realize that this could

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<v Speaker 1>be a job? Maybe when you started to see money clients?

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<v Speaker 1>Even when

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<v Speaker 2>I first started seeing money come in, I wasn't sure

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<v Speaker 2>what the industry will be like, how long I will

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<v Speaker 2>be here for because the typical shelf life for an

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<v Speaker 2>influencer or content creator is around four years. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>very interesting. I want to actually hear more about that

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<v Speaker 1>when you say shelf life, meaning

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<v Speaker 2>meaning after four years, they kind of either drop off

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<v Speaker 2>or they no longer be relevant or someone in the

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<v Speaker 2>same field becomes newer and they come in with more

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<v Speaker 2>skills or something fresher. So

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<v Speaker 1>how do you drop off? Do you get less sponsorships?

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<v Speaker 1>Do brands start to not want to work with you

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<v Speaker 1>as much?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's the same like a product life cycle

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<v Speaker 2>for any brand that brings in a product or like

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<v Speaker 2>shampoo or something. They always still have to refresh their

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<v Speaker 2>product or do a rebrand or just the same as

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<v Speaker 2>content creators, they have to stay relevant, reinvent themselves. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's quite rare to see

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<v Speaker 2>content creators remain at the top level for a very

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<v Speaker 2>long time. No, no, no, no.

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<v Speaker 1>Very supportive.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, she's very supportive. But generally they are so jaded

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<v Speaker 2>from content creation that they, they usually take a break

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<v Speaker 2>and find something else. Or

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<v Speaker 2>um it could even be on the upside where you

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<v Speaker 2>leverage on your influence to build something bigger than just

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<v Speaker 2>being an influencer. And then you realize that is the

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<v Speaker 2>path that you want to go. So that being a

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<v Speaker 2>content creator is often a stepping stone to something else.

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<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, it could be your main

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<v Speaker 2>career if you put your heart and soul

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<v Speaker 1>into it. So you make plenty of good points. I

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<v Speaker 1>actually want to follow up on some of them.

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<v Speaker 1>For some, it is a stepping stone to something bigger,

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<v Speaker 1>but for others, it is the end goal I think

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<v Speaker 1>for some people who want to convert influencing as their

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<v Speaker 1>part time hustle into a full time career. Have you

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<v Speaker 1>seen examples of people who are like that? And

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<v Speaker 2>we manage a lot of influences. So,

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<v Speaker 2>so we've seen all kinds of influences and there are

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<v Speaker 2>the kinds that doing content while they are studying, they

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<v Speaker 2>are the ones who quit school to do it full time.

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<v Speaker 2>There are also people who work and do content creation

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<v Speaker 2>on the site. So there's all, all of the different

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<v Speaker 2>types of influences I would say.

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<v Speaker 1>So how does one get into making a full time

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<v Speaker 1>career out of content creation?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it comes down to what they plan to achieve.

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<v Speaker 2>It's easy for youths or people to say they want

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<v Speaker 2>to be a content creator.

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<v Speaker 2>But what does that actually mean? Does that just mean

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<v Speaker 2>that they want to be famous or does that mean

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<v Speaker 2>that they don't want to work for someone or does

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<v Speaker 2>it mean that they just want to take pictures and

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<v Speaker 2>look nice travel? It's because it does seem like a

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<v Speaker 2>very glorious and fun life. But oftentimes that's not the case. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there are many things that happen behind the scenes that

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<v Speaker 2>are not seen by the public like for him doing

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<v Speaker 2>youtube and social media, like everyone's just like, you know, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just a 10 minute video and what

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<v Speaker 2>say, how can I drive such a nice car and like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, have such a luxurious life but the struggles

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<v Speaker 2>that they don't see behind the scenes, the scripting, the editing,

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<v Speaker 2>the production, everything that happens are not seen, right? And

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<v Speaker 2>they think that it's a very like straightforward and simple,

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<v Speaker 2>like 10 minute video, but a 10 minute video takes

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<v Speaker 2>more than a week to produce. It's far from straightforward

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<v Speaker 2>and now that the industry is so saturated, there's influences everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Almost everyone is an influencer, it then becomes hard for

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<v Speaker 2>someone to want to pursue

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<v Speaker 2>this if they do not have the right goals in

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<v Speaker 2>mind and the right

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<v Speaker 1>plan. Another thing you said earlier was that some people

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<v Speaker 1>use a leverage on their positions as a content creator

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<v Speaker 1>influencer to, you know, start businesses and sort of that

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<v Speaker 1>extends their shelf life. So I know you have a

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<v Speaker 1>jewelry business. Is this something that's right. Um This is

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<v Speaker 1>a path that you took, talk about how you were

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<v Speaker 1>able to extend shelf life or this was starting your

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<v Speaker 1>own

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<v Speaker 1>own jewelry business. Part of your long term plan as

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<v Speaker 1>an influencer because bear in mind what said some people

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<v Speaker 1>you fall out, you fall behind. There always be younger,

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<v Speaker 1>more popular people coming on to the space. I

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<v Speaker 2>never stepped in meeting him wanting to become a content creator.

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<v Speaker 2>It happened along the way, but ever since I was young,

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<v Speaker 2>I knew I wanted to start my own business. Um

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<v Speaker 2>So before I started,

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<v Speaker 2>so I actually run a dog bakery called the Wolf Bakery.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was baking doggie cakes from home and I

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<v Speaker 2>really enjoyed that. But I realized there was a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of limitations when it comes to baking cakes by

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<v Speaker 2>myself because it was very difficult. We were traveling a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>At that point of time, we had a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>like commitments. We were going to like different countries every

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<v Speaker 2>other few weeks. And at that point of time, I was,

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<v Speaker 2>I think a few customers because we take in orders,

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<v Speaker 2>like in advance and then last minute I'll be like, sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>I really have to go on a trip and then

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<v Speaker 2>I have to cancel. And so eventually I stopped doing

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<v Speaker 2>the wolf. Although it was a very, very fun and

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<v Speaker 2>exciting time for me. It was very personal because she

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<v Speaker 2>baked every cake herself. Yeah, I, I have to see

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<v Speaker 2>the potato. Yes, she was my unpaid stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it was really fun. So all along, I

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<v Speaker 2>kind of knew that I wanted to run my own business.

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<v Speaker 2>I like making decisions like being creative and doing a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of hands on things. So um after I stopped

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<v Speaker 2>the Wolf Bakery, I think not long after we got married,

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<v Speaker 2>I realized how girls really like accessories and diamonds and

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<v Speaker 2>for myself personally, I'm very, very clumsy. So I will

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<v Speaker 2>lose my expensive things, right?

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<v Speaker 2>So I was looking for a good alternative for girls

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<v Speaker 2>or anyone who likes diamonds. So that's why I got

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<v Speaker 2>into a co creating my own brand. So

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<v Speaker 1>starting your jewelry brand was born from your passion as

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<v Speaker 1>when you were younger to eventually run your own business.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you find that it is something that influences content

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<v Speaker 1>creators these days are actually pivoting

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<v Speaker 1>to especially those that are much older, you know, in

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<v Speaker 1>order to extend their shelf life, so to speak.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely. It's, it's a pattern we see because to

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<v Speaker 2>follow and influences brand, it's very exciting as an audience

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<v Speaker 2>to understand their journey, to follow them for a long

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<v Speaker 2>time and then to see them launch a brand,

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<v Speaker 2>a business. Um You just want to support them. I

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<v Speaker 2>think they feel like it's very personal and they were

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<v Speaker 2>part of the entire journey, building the business together with

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<v Speaker 2>you and watching it grow. I think they feel like

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<v Speaker 2>it's a very personal journey. Like we share like all

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<v Speaker 2>aspects of the business.

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<v Speaker 1>So this podcast, right? We talk a lot about finance,

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<v Speaker 1>financial advice, personal finances for someone who is intending to

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<v Speaker 1>become a full time content creator.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you make sure that this is a lucrative career?

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<v Speaker 1>How do you work with brands, negotiate payment, that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of thing because you are your own boss at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the day,

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<v Speaker 2>right? Yes, you are however, not all creators are entrepreneurs

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<v Speaker 2>or should be. So a lot of them are. No,

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<v Speaker 2>it's true. Some are amazing and so talented in

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<v Speaker 2>the view of content creation, in video making in photos,

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<v Speaker 2>in articulating their words, in podcast, stuff like this, right?

0:11:35.809 --> 0:11:38.090
<v Speaker 2>You have, you see a lot of these, but how

0:11:38.099 --> 0:11:41.929
<v Speaker 2>many of them actually have the business skills are? Exactly.

0:11:41.940 --> 0:11:43.419
<v Speaker 1>So how do you convert that into a

0:11:43.554 --> 0:11:47.364
<v Speaker 2>um So for people like this to earn money, my

0:11:47.375 --> 0:11:49.825
<v Speaker 2>suggestion for them would be to work closely with an

0:11:49.835 --> 0:11:53.044
<v Speaker 2>agency that they trust for me. 10 years ago when

0:11:53.054 --> 0:11:55.984
<v Speaker 2>I first started, I actually signed to an agency. And

0:11:55.994 --> 0:11:59.145
<v Speaker 2>through that, it gave me the chance to create

0:11:59.409 --> 0:12:02.479
<v Speaker 2>and focus on creating. While at the same time, I

0:12:02.489 --> 0:12:06.819
<v Speaker 2>have a manager representing me and a good company who

0:12:06.830 --> 0:12:08.190
<v Speaker 2>negotiates for me

0:12:08.869 --> 0:12:13.010
<v Speaker 1>as a content creator yourself. And you also manage other

0:12:13.020 --> 0:12:15.750
<v Speaker 1>content creators. I think I want to ask this question,

0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.900
<v Speaker 1>how much can you realistically expect to make? How much

0:12:18.909 --> 0:12:20.500
<v Speaker 1>does a content creator make?

0:12:21.049 --> 0:12:25.179
<v Speaker 2>I think it can range from anywhere from like zero millions.

0:12:25.500 --> 0:12:26.169
<v Speaker 2>Like if you

0:12:26.325 --> 0:12:29.025
<v Speaker 2>the top creators in the world, Mr be Logan Paul

0:12:29.145 --> 0:12:33.474
<v Speaker 2>K si they are earning such big bucks. Even Ryan's

0:12:33.484 --> 0:12:35.375
<v Speaker 2>world who just does toys, toy

0:12:35.385 --> 0:12:39.335
<v Speaker 1>reviews. What about in Singapore? Don't compare with the US

0:12:39.344 --> 0:12:41.955
<v Speaker 1>guys because there is also a much bigger market there.

0:12:42.234 --> 0:12:45.945
<v Speaker 1>How much are content creators making? For example, one tiktok

0:12:45.955 --> 0:12:49.405
<v Speaker 1>post one Instagram post one Instagram story. How many a

0:12:49.414 --> 0:12:51.565
<v Speaker 1>month do you do then at the end of the day?

0:12:51.575 --> 0:12:53.135
<v Speaker 1>How much do you make in a year?

0:12:53.380 --> 0:12:58.119
<v Speaker 2>It can really range from 00 to anything I would

0:12:58.130 --> 0:12:58.869
<v Speaker 2>say millions

0:12:59.330 --> 0:13:02.830
<v Speaker 1>even in Singapore. Why not? How much could we realistically

0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.729
<v Speaker 1>expect to pay for one Instagram post for someone who

0:13:06.739 --> 0:13:08.390
<v Speaker 1>is quite well known in

0:13:09.039 --> 0:13:10.210
<v Speaker 1>the creator scene?

0:13:10.219 --> 0:13:12.659
<v Speaker 2>Maybe 2 to 10,000. If you if you are working

0:13:12.669 --> 0:13:15.439
<v Speaker 2>a brand, if you're a smaller influencer, the budget will

0:13:15.450 --> 0:13:17.450
<v Speaker 2>of course be a little bit smaller and then they will.

0:13:17.460 --> 0:13:19.909
<v Speaker 2>But the three of you for example, um they will,

0:13:19.919 --> 0:13:22.010
<v Speaker 2>they will send you some of their product and hope

0:13:22.020 --> 0:13:25.090
<v Speaker 2>that you can post about it. And then on the

0:13:25.099 --> 0:13:29.309
<v Speaker 2>more macro influencer side, then the fee tends to get

0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.349
<v Speaker 2>a little bit higher and it can range up to

0:13:31.359 --> 0:13:32.059
<v Speaker 2>five digits.

0:13:32.140 --> 0:13:35.729
<v Speaker 1>And that's just for one post. How many requests for

0:13:35.739 --> 0:13:38.409
<v Speaker 1>post do you get a month? For example, me

0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.020
<v Speaker 1>in general it doesn't have to be you. But how

0:13:41.030 --> 0:13:45.049
<v Speaker 1>about the people that you manage? Maybe 34 requests for posts? Yeah,

0:13:45.229 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 2>3 to 4 is reasonable. If they work harder, it

0:13:47.849 --> 0:13:51.000
<v Speaker 2>would be more, for example, it will be less.

0:13:51.260 --> 0:13:53.460
<v Speaker 1>So how many, what's the most you've seen

0:13:54.169 --> 0:13:58.049
<v Speaker 2>the most? I've seen? 0 to 10, 0 to 10

0:13:58.059 --> 0:13:58.710
<v Speaker 2>is 10 a

0:13:58.719 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 1>month

0:14:00.010 --> 0:14:03.140
<v Speaker 1>possible 10 Instagram posts a month.

0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.339
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there are also like IG stories, I GREs tiktok,

0:14:06.349 --> 0:14:10.979
<v Speaker 2>different platforms also that your brain can share appearing in videos.

0:14:11.729 --> 0:14:15.510
<v Speaker 1>So on. How many sort of engagements on average do

0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.030
<v Speaker 1>you see a month? So this can be um your

0:14:18.039 --> 0:14:21.739
<v Speaker 1>Instagram post, your reals, plus your tiktok videos and appearing

0:14:21.750 --> 0:14:24.619
<v Speaker 1>youtube videos. How many you know these sort of engagements

0:14:24.630 --> 0:14:26.340
<v Speaker 1>do you see in a month

0:14:27.380 --> 0:14:28.010
<v Speaker 1>back then?

0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:29.880
<v Speaker 1>10 is the average

0:14:30.539 --> 0:14:33.609
<v Speaker 2>10 would be a good number if you want to

0:14:33.619 --> 0:14:35.869
<v Speaker 2>take up the job, I'm sure there is a formula

0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.820
<v Speaker 2>to calculate the comfort of a content creator on on.

0:14:39.830 --> 0:14:42.849
<v Speaker 2>I think everybody has a different equation. Some may do

0:14:42.859 --> 0:14:47.270
<v Speaker 2>it for you know, literally nothing for just free products

0:14:47.570 --> 0:14:48.400
<v Speaker 2>and like,

0:14:49.224 --> 0:14:52.205
<v Speaker 2>yeah, yeah, until they, until they see that it's a

0:14:52.215 --> 0:14:56.155
<v Speaker 2>sustainable career and some will reject all the free stuff

0:14:56.164 --> 0:14:58.864
<v Speaker 2>and only demand money. Everyone is different.

0:14:59.525 --> 0:15:01.585
<v Speaker 1>OK? So you're saying it doesn't matter how many you

0:15:01.594 --> 0:15:03.645
<v Speaker 1>have at the end of the day, how many followers

0:15:03.655 --> 0:15:05.315
<v Speaker 1>you have at the end of the day, it's

0:15:05.325 --> 0:15:12.344
<v Speaker 2>not the only metric. There are multiple consideration factors that

0:15:12.354 --> 0:15:13.155
<v Speaker 2>come into play

0:15:13.510 --> 0:15:18.039
<v Speaker 2>and followers are just one of them. Followers, oftentimes also

0:15:18.049 --> 0:15:22.619
<v Speaker 2>just give credibility to the influencer like, OK, we know

0:15:22.630 --> 0:15:28.359
<v Speaker 2>this person has a certain amount of subscribers followers throughout

0:15:28.369 --> 0:15:30.580
<v Speaker 2>their platforms. We know that um they have built a

0:15:30.590 --> 0:15:34.330
<v Speaker 2>following over the years, something like that. Then you start

0:15:34.340 --> 0:15:35.539
<v Speaker 2>to see their engagement

0:15:35.820 --> 0:15:38.549
<v Speaker 2>and then you see the quality of the content that

0:15:38.559 --> 0:15:42.070
<v Speaker 2>they make, do they understand the trends? Um Is there

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.650
<v Speaker 2>a certain creativity in their content?

0:15:44.869 --> 0:15:47.469
<v Speaker 2>So these are all the factors that we consider when

0:15:47.479 --> 0:15:51.030
<v Speaker 2>working with an influencer and even bring an influencer on board?

0:15:51.039 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 2>I can, I can tell you the truth right now,

0:15:52.409 --> 0:15:56.390
<v Speaker 2>a 50,000 follower creator can go from zero, they can

0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:01.130
<v Speaker 2>literally earn $0 for like 6 to 12 months. And

0:16:01.140 --> 0:16:05.570
<v Speaker 2>there's there could be another 50,000 follower influencers who can

0:16:05.580 --> 0:16:06.619
<v Speaker 2>earn up to 100,000

0:16:06.815 --> 0:16:07.554
<v Speaker 2>per year.

0:16:08.375 --> 0:16:10.705
<v Speaker 1>And what sets those two influencers apart?

0:16:10.715 --> 0:16:13.375
<v Speaker 2>Then? Well, then, then it comes down to um the

0:16:13.385 --> 0:16:16.715
<v Speaker 2>sources of revenue for the influencer? Like what, what does

0:16:16.724 --> 0:16:20.875
<v Speaker 2>the influencer encompass? How hard does the influencer work and

0:16:20.885 --> 0:16:23.015
<v Speaker 2>what is their niche? What is their audience? Let me

0:16:23.025 --> 0:16:25.645
<v Speaker 2>give you an example. If you are a parents and

0:16:25.655 --> 0:16:28.505
<v Speaker 2>you look up to a certain parenting influencer,

0:16:29.099 --> 0:16:33.070
<v Speaker 2>when you go to look for maybe stuff like milk powders,

0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:38.820
<v Speaker 2>diapers or other other stuff, maybe clothes, you would tend

0:16:38.830 --> 0:16:43.309
<v Speaker 2>to trust their recommendations. And then if you are a brand,

0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.960
<v Speaker 2>this is the influencer that you will go to. So

0:16:46.969 --> 0:16:51.020
<v Speaker 2>as an influencer to earn more money, they need to

0:16:51.030 --> 0:16:52.919
<v Speaker 2>have a niche and they need to gain the trust

0:16:52.929 --> 0:16:56.799
<v Speaker 2>of their audience. So for somebody like this, they would

0:16:56.809 --> 0:17:00.659
<v Speaker 2>tend to earn more as compared to someone who just

0:17:00.669 --> 0:17:02.229
<v Speaker 2>takes nice photos, for example.

0:17:02.380 --> 0:17:04.050
<v Speaker 1>So developing area.

0:17:04.060 --> 0:17:07.060
<v Speaker 2>So if you ask me, followers do not play that

0:17:07.069 --> 0:17:09.810
<v Speaker 2>much of a part in how much you earn. It's,

0:17:09.819 --> 0:17:11.949
<v Speaker 2>it's just a range of your audience. But

0:17:12.489 --> 0:17:16.938
<v Speaker 2>even as an agency, we tend to not segregate influences

0:17:16.949 --> 0:17:22.459
<v Speaker 2>by their follower number, but through their engagement and their influence,

0:17:22.550 --> 0:17:25.419
<v Speaker 1>if I'm interpreting this right, you're trying to say that

0:17:25.819 --> 0:17:29.790
<v Speaker 1>it depends on the niche area and that particular audience

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:30.919
<v Speaker 1>that you are engaging.

0:17:30.930 --> 0:17:34.729
<v Speaker 2>So even your niche may be a more lucrative industry.

0:17:34.859 --> 0:17:38.420
<v Speaker 2>For example, if your niche is in tech, in gaming,

0:17:38.430 --> 0:17:41.599
<v Speaker 2>in parenting, it could be a lot more than if

0:17:41.609 --> 0:17:44.319
<v Speaker 2>you were in the business of, I don't know something

0:17:44.329 --> 0:17:44.669
<v Speaker 2>else

0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.060
<v Speaker 1>So would you say, would you attribute that to, you know,

0:17:48.069 --> 0:17:51.550
<v Speaker 1>part of your success as quite a well known influencer?

0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.250
<v Speaker 1>Because we see a lot of them out there, but

0:17:54.260 --> 0:17:56.939
<v Speaker 1>only very few make it to the top, have big

0:17:56.949 --> 0:17:59.669
<v Speaker 1>brands that they work with and also have a longer

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:01.920
<v Speaker 1>shelf life than most others. So would you say that

0:18:01.930 --> 0:18:03.770
<v Speaker 1>having a niche? And now that would you attribute that

0:18:03.780 --> 0:18:05.609
<v Speaker 1>to be part of your success?

0:18:06.380 --> 0:18:10.500
<v Speaker 2>Um Yes or no. For me, I focused on the

0:18:10.510 --> 0:18:14.020
<v Speaker 2>mass audience. So I did not focus on a niche.

0:18:14.739 --> 0:18:17.920
<v Speaker 2>So the way I grew, my audience was through a

0:18:17.930 --> 0:18:21.929
<v Speaker 2>mass audience and, and through viral topics

0:18:22.319 --> 0:18:26.119
<v Speaker 2>that got me quite international and grew a pretty international

0:18:26.130 --> 0:18:30.270
<v Speaker 2>fan base. And it also helped my standing in the

0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:31.209
<v Speaker 2>Singapore market

0:18:31.349 --> 0:18:36.030
<v Speaker 1>for Debbie. How did you raise your profile as a creator?

0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:41.030
<v Speaker 2>I focus a lot on being myself and being a wife,

0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.130
<v Speaker 2>a mom and a business owner. I show different aspects

0:18:44.140 --> 0:18:45.389
<v Speaker 2>of my life and I

0:18:45.459 --> 0:18:47.270
<v Speaker 2>to be as real as I can to share like

0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.760
<v Speaker 2>the struggles, the successes. And that's when I feel like

0:18:50.770 --> 0:18:53.540
<v Speaker 2>I really get to connect with my audience and also

0:18:53.550 --> 0:18:58.719
<v Speaker 2>build the trust. Yeah, she's very chill just what she wants.

0:18:58.729 --> 0:19:00.910
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I have to tell her like that this post

0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.329
<v Speaker 2>is too dark, like shoot it outside. I'm like just

0:19:03.339 --> 0:19:03.489
<v Speaker 2>let

0:19:03.500 --> 0:19:07.359
<v Speaker 1>me post, maybe authenticity is key and it's something that

0:19:07.369 --> 0:19:08.430
<v Speaker 1>people like to see.

0:19:14.989 --> 0:19:18.189
<v Speaker 1>Hello everyone. My name is Christina and I'm Adrian and

0:19:18.199 --> 0:19:20.619
<v Speaker 1>we're the host of a podcast called Work It If

0:19:20.630 --> 0:19:22.609
<v Speaker 1>you never heard of it. Well, it's a good time

0:19:22.619 --> 0:19:25.438
<v Speaker 1>to tap in. In the last three episodes. We've discussed

0:19:25.449 --> 0:19:28.579
<v Speaker 1>topics like how to negotiate for a salary increase or

0:19:28.589 --> 0:19:31.188
<v Speaker 1>how to get along with younger colleagues who have different

0:19:31.199 --> 0:19:32.159
<v Speaker 1>values from you.

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.109
<v Speaker 1>Incidentally is our top performing episode. If work consumes your

0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.760
<v Speaker 1>life and you want some perspective on issues like management stress,

0:19:39.770 --> 0:19:43.589
<v Speaker 1>even office romance. This podcast should be on your list.

0:19:43.750 --> 0:19:46.649
<v Speaker 1>A new episode drops every Monday. Catch us on the

0:19:46.660 --> 0:19:49.609
<v Speaker 1>CN A app or wherever you get your podcast.

0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.639
<v Speaker 1>Um I also think that a lot of your income

0:19:59.650 --> 0:20:02.930
<v Speaker 1>streams comes from working with, with brands, right? So from

0:20:02.939 --> 0:20:05.469
<v Speaker 1>your experience, some tips that you may have, how do

0:20:05.479 --> 0:20:08.760
<v Speaker 1>influencers or content features determine their worth when they work

0:20:08.770 --> 0:20:12.810
<v Speaker 1>with brands, how do you negotiate better deals with

0:20:12.819 --> 0:20:16.489
<v Speaker 2>brands? Join the right agency? I think you have to

0:20:16.500 --> 0:20:19.150
<v Speaker 2>trust the right agency to represent you first

0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.420
<v Speaker 2>because at this day and age with so many influencers

0:20:23.430 --> 0:20:26.339
<v Speaker 2>around the world, the market is so saturated, it's also

0:20:26.349 --> 0:20:29.880
<v Speaker 2>very normal for a brand to not know who to

0:20:29.890 --> 0:20:33.030
<v Speaker 2>work with. So if you work with an agency that

0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.199
<v Speaker 2>is able to sell you, well, I think that is

0:20:35.209 --> 0:20:38.530
<v Speaker 2>very important and at the same time, you can focus

0:20:38.540 --> 0:20:40.780
<v Speaker 2>on your content creation.

0:20:41.209 --> 0:20:43.698
<v Speaker 1>What are some common mistakes that people starting out as

0:20:43.709 --> 0:20:46.250
<v Speaker 1>content creators or influencers make

0:20:46.819 --> 0:20:49.530
<v Speaker 2>a lot of them are trying to imitate someone or

0:20:49.540 --> 0:20:52.909
<v Speaker 2>trying to be someone. And it does take a very

0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:58.069
<v Speaker 2>long time for youtubers to find their style. Even Mr

0:20:58.079 --> 0:21:01.739
<v Speaker 2>Bees took ages to finally become who he is today.

0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 2>I myself took maybe 4 to 6 years to truly

0:21:05.290 --> 0:21:08.589
<v Speaker 2>understand what my style is. So as a youtuber or

0:21:08.599 --> 0:21:11.359
<v Speaker 2>content creator, I just think it comes down to just

0:21:11.369 --> 0:21:15.409
<v Speaker 2>doing posting and just getting your work out there

0:21:15.670 --> 0:21:19.290
<v Speaker 2>until you realize that there's something that works, then just

0:21:19.300 --> 0:21:23.589
<v Speaker 2>keep doing it in different ways. I think consistency, consistency

0:21:23.599 --> 0:21:27.510
<v Speaker 2>and having that discipline to post every day. I I

0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:30.630
<v Speaker 2>think that's very important. You can have someone who is

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.989
<v Speaker 2>super creative, has a lot of opinions, but only post

0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:38.810
<v Speaker 2>once a week or post a blurry photo with a

0:21:38.819 --> 0:21:42.310
<v Speaker 2>long caption. Then it would not work as well as

0:21:42.319 --> 0:21:44.300
<v Speaker 2>somebody who post seven times a week,

0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.750
<v Speaker 1>Debbie from your experience. So what do you think are

0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.910
<v Speaker 1>some misconceptions that come with being a content creator?

0:21:53.189 --> 0:21:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Misconceptions?

0:21:56.310 --> 0:21:59.550
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people like, like I said earlier, right?

0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.540
<v Speaker 2>That they think that it's like a very, very straightforward job,

0:22:02.550 --> 0:22:04.599
<v Speaker 2>but to achieve consistency is not

0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.810
<v Speaker 2>the easiest for you to, you know, think of constant content,

0:22:08.819 --> 0:22:12.869
<v Speaker 2>how to make it funnier or more engaging it, it's

0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.020
<v Speaker 2>really a struggle. So sometimes your brain really goes like

0:22:16.030 --> 0:22:19.770
<v Speaker 2>dry and then you have to like chill out, find

0:22:19.780 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 2>some inspiration. Another mistake is when influencers work with a

0:22:23.569 --> 0:22:27.089
<v Speaker 2>brand and they become too hard sell and then there's

0:22:27.099 --> 0:22:27.910
<v Speaker 2>that lack of creation.

0:22:27.994 --> 0:22:31.724
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's one of the biggest

0:22:31.734 --> 0:22:35.875
<v Speaker 2>mistake that content creator can make, especially in their early age,

0:22:36.135 --> 0:22:38.284
<v Speaker 1>which brings me to my next point. How do you

0:22:38.295 --> 0:22:43.073
<v Speaker 1>plan your finances, your financial goals, your future needs when

0:22:43.084 --> 0:22:46.795
<v Speaker 1>your income streams, of course, may or may not be

0:22:46.805 --> 0:22:49.925
<v Speaker 1>so consistent, especially with every month. If you work with

0:22:49.935 --> 0:22:52.344
<v Speaker 1>a big brand, then you know, of course, the income

0:22:52.354 --> 0:22:54.994
<v Speaker 1>is more and then some months dr periods,

0:22:55.354 --> 0:22:56.665
<v Speaker 2>that's why those who

0:22:57.109 --> 0:23:02.079
<v Speaker 2>pursue a full time content creation career are risk takers.

0:23:02.550 --> 0:23:05.280
<v Speaker 2>And for a lot of them, they are willing to

0:23:05.290 --> 0:23:09.510
<v Speaker 2>live with this, to live with the unknown because they

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:14.349
<v Speaker 2>aren't able to forecast their finances. But generally if one

0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:18.199
<v Speaker 2>takes the step to quit, whatever they are doing to

0:23:18.209 --> 0:23:20.859
<v Speaker 2>pursue a content creation career,

0:23:22.010 --> 0:23:26.310
<v Speaker 2>it's highly likely that they have plans and it's, it's

0:23:26.319 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 2>very rare to see somebody quit whatever they are doing

0:23:30.050 --> 0:23:35.170
<v Speaker 2>school or work and not know what's coming forward. The

0:23:35.180 --> 0:23:38.510
<v Speaker 2>content creators who I've seen generally know that they are

0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:41.530
<v Speaker 2>on the rise and this is a step worth taking.

0:23:41.540 --> 0:23:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Aside from the norm

0:23:43.569 --> 0:23:45.839
<v Speaker 1>for the two of you, you have a little family,

0:23:45.849 --> 0:23:49.359
<v Speaker 1>you have a daughter. How do you plan your future,

0:23:49.410 --> 0:23:53.280
<v Speaker 1>your finances? How do you deal with emergency costs for example,

0:23:53.430 --> 0:23:59.899
<v Speaker 2>investment building businesses, buying hospital insurance. It is super important

0:23:59.910 --> 0:24:00.938
<v Speaker 2>for real. Like

0:24:01.250 --> 0:24:05.290
<v Speaker 2>we experienced that like twice. Unfortunately, when staley was younger,

0:24:05.300 --> 0:24:08.270
<v Speaker 2>she was hospitalized and I realized, you know, how important

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:11.920
<v Speaker 2>it actually is to have a good hospital for real.

0:24:12.750 --> 0:24:15.910
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, from your experience and how do you have a

0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:17.439
<v Speaker 1>fixed income stream because you

0:24:17.645 --> 0:24:19.655
<v Speaker 1>manage influence from

0:24:19.665 --> 0:24:22.935
<v Speaker 2>my company. I draw a salary and then through my

0:24:22.944 --> 0:24:26.294
<v Speaker 2>work on my branded content, there is another source of revenue.

0:24:26.464 --> 0:24:29.795
<v Speaker 2>It's two different job scripts and two different revenues. Um

0:24:29.805 --> 0:24:33.044
<v Speaker 2>So I play a job as a CEO in Titan

0:24:33.055 --> 0:24:36.525
<v Speaker 2>digital media. And at the same time, I'm also a

0:24:36.535 --> 0:24:40.484
<v Speaker 2>content creator, just like Debbie, she's the owner of her

0:24:40.494 --> 0:24:43.234
<v Speaker 2>brand and she's also a content creator.

0:24:44.150 --> 0:24:46.430
<v Speaker 1>So another point that you brought up earlier was that,

0:24:46.439 --> 0:24:50.670
<v Speaker 1>you know, if people don't rejuvenate and update and basically

0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:53.958
<v Speaker 1>stay relevant, they lose out to younger or newer people

0:24:53.969 --> 0:24:56.630
<v Speaker 1>on the scene with more followers. What happens also if

0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:59.369
<v Speaker 1>you age out, if you get too old, is that

0:24:59.380 --> 0:25:00.920
<v Speaker 1>a thing? No, it's not

0:25:01.449 --> 0:25:06.660
<v Speaker 2>anti aging as you grow older, it's in fact easier

0:25:07.089 --> 0:25:10.829
<v Speaker 2>to have your own niche and to have the credibility

0:25:10.839 --> 0:25:13.500
<v Speaker 2>and trust of your audience and brands,

0:25:13.719 --> 0:25:16.819
<v Speaker 2>those who have been in the industry for at least

0:25:16.859 --> 0:25:19.650
<v Speaker 2>5 to 10 years. If I were a brand or

0:25:19.660 --> 0:25:23.349
<v Speaker 2>an agency, I will not be afraid that this person

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:26.609
<v Speaker 2>may get into the news for something that may affect

0:25:26.619 --> 0:25:30.069
<v Speaker 2>our campaign. They are a safer choice and a more

0:25:30.079 --> 0:25:32.930
<v Speaker 2>credible choice because of the audience and the work they

0:25:32.939 --> 0:25:35.390
<v Speaker 2>have done over the years that plays a big part

0:25:35.484 --> 0:25:38.694
<v Speaker 1>as well. So you're saying that influencers are content creators

0:25:38.704 --> 0:25:42.104
<v Speaker 1>who have been in this role for longer tend to

0:25:42.114 --> 0:25:46.415
<v Speaker 1>be more legitimate and it is easier to navigate the

0:25:46.425 --> 0:25:50.295
<v Speaker 1>space get more. Is that true? Being in the game

0:25:50.305 --> 0:25:53.214
<v Speaker 1>for longer is easier than those who are starting out.

0:25:53.265 --> 0:25:53.584
<v Speaker 1>It

0:25:53.594 --> 0:25:57.194
<v Speaker 2>is actually not easier than those who are starting out

0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:01.069
<v Speaker 2>because those who are on the rise, it's very exciting.

0:26:01.459 --> 0:26:04.879
<v Speaker 2>The brands want to put their names on them. Everyone

0:26:04.890 --> 0:26:06.688
<v Speaker 2>wants a piece of them. But at the end of

0:26:06.699 --> 0:26:09.369
<v Speaker 2>the day, it comes down to different strategies as well

0:26:09.380 --> 0:26:13.270
<v Speaker 2>and understanding the trends of the market and with a

0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:16.500
<v Speaker 2>more effective marketing strategy for a brand, you would want

0:26:16.510 --> 0:26:19.948
<v Speaker 2>a more diverse range of influences to work with.

0:26:20.729 --> 0:26:23.479
<v Speaker 1>Do you two of you see yourself doing this for

0:26:23.489 --> 0:26:24.250
<v Speaker 1>a long time

0:26:24.390 --> 0:26:27.810
<v Speaker 2>for me? Yes, I would love to do it forever.

0:26:27.859 --> 0:26:30.890
<v Speaker 2>It does not change over the years, the passion and

0:26:30.900 --> 0:26:34.520
<v Speaker 2>the creativity in my blood to create videos and to

0:26:34.530 --> 0:26:38.879
<v Speaker 2>work with content creators. And at this age, I feel

0:26:38.890 --> 0:26:40.900
<v Speaker 2>like I can also be a mentor to a lot

0:26:40.910 --> 0:26:43.968
<v Speaker 2>of creators. I'm able to inspire them, I'm able to

0:26:43.979 --> 0:26:46.010
<v Speaker 2>guide them, I'm able to

0:26:46.280 --> 0:26:49.609
<v Speaker 2>share with them the mistakes and the shortcomings that I

0:26:49.619 --> 0:26:52.520
<v Speaker 2>face throughout my last 10 years so that they can

0:26:52.530 --> 0:26:55.920
<v Speaker 2>reach my level in two years. And that, that's what

0:26:55.930 --> 0:26:57.709
<v Speaker 2>I aspire to be and that's what I hope I

0:26:57.719 --> 0:27:01.599
<v Speaker 2>can do for the influencers and the content creators around

0:27:01.609 --> 0:27:03.229
<v Speaker 2>me and in tighten digital media

0:27:03.469 --> 0:27:06.079
<v Speaker 2>because at the end of the day, I want to

0:27:06.089 --> 0:27:09.698
<v Speaker 2>see this greater economy grow. I do believe that in

0:27:09.709 --> 0:27:13.180
<v Speaker 2>the coming years in the future influencers, content creators will

0:27:13.189 --> 0:27:17.219
<v Speaker 2>be a real and stable job. The current generation aspires

0:27:17.229 --> 0:27:22.109
<v Speaker 2>to be youtubers aspire to be um tiktoker influencers. And

0:27:22.420 --> 0:27:24.849
<v Speaker 2>as they grow older, we will actually see it come

0:27:24.859 --> 0:27:26.619
<v Speaker 2>to fruition and it won't take long.

0:27:26.900 --> 0:27:29.639
<v Speaker 1>Well, how you think that you know, this creative space

0:27:29.650 --> 0:27:31.890
<v Speaker 1>will only grow and more people turn to. Yeah. And

0:27:31.900 --> 0:27:35.969
<v Speaker 2>and it's also my part to build this creative ecosystem

0:27:35.979 --> 0:27:37.958
<v Speaker 2>being in my position. Give

0:27:37.969 --> 0:27:41.069
<v Speaker 1>us your best financial advice for someone who is a

0:27:41.079 --> 0:27:43.729
<v Speaker 1>content creator or thinking of being a content creator

0:27:43.829 --> 0:27:47.880
<v Speaker 1>but is concerned about streams of income losing out to

0:27:47.890 --> 0:27:50.790
<v Speaker 1>other content creators. You know, the the issue of being

0:27:50.800 --> 0:27:55.379
<v Speaker 1>competitive in this space and basically planning for their future.

0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:55.930
<v Speaker 1>My

0:27:55.939 --> 0:27:59.159
<v Speaker 2>answer would be a bit biased because I am after

0:27:59.170 --> 0:28:04.319
<v Speaker 2>all a CEO of a talent agency. However, I really

0:28:04.329 --> 0:28:08.540
<v Speaker 2>encourage the younger influencers or those who are starting out

0:28:08.750 --> 0:28:13.439
<v Speaker 2>to look into working with an agency, not like selling

0:28:13.449 --> 0:28:16.129
<v Speaker 2>your soul to the agency, but just having a good

0:28:16.140 --> 0:28:19.180
<v Speaker 2>relationship with agencies because at the end of the day,

0:28:19.189 --> 0:28:22.140
<v Speaker 2>these agencies that will sell you, that eventually have a

0:28:22.150 --> 0:28:24.180
<v Speaker 2>certain comfort with working with you.

0:28:24.510 --> 0:28:27.739
<v Speaker 2>And in fact, they will help you plan your finances.

0:28:27.750 --> 0:28:30.709
<v Speaker 2>If you have discussions with them, they will be able

0:28:30.719 --> 0:28:32.930
<v Speaker 2>to share more of their plans. And at the end

0:28:32.939 --> 0:28:36.790
<v Speaker 2>of the day also invest your money and time wisely.

0:28:37.180 --> 0:28:37.560
<v Speaker 2>That

0:28:37.569 --> 0:28:39.729
<v Speaker 1>is the dream, right. I'm sure people

0:28:41.290 --> 0:28:43.760
<v Speaker 1>and look at your car as well and be like, hey,

0:28:43.770 --> 0:28:45.489
<v Speaker 1>I want to get there. I mean, he worked really,

0:28:45.500 --> 0:28:45.699
<v Speaker 1>really

0:28:45.709 --> 0:28:48.780
<v Speaker 2>hard. Yeah, he deserves it. But a few more, I

0:28:48.810 --> 0:28:53.839
<v Speaker 1>have to ask him for his financial advice because everybody

0:28:53.849 --> 0:28:54.880
<v Speaker 1>would aspire to

0:28:54.890 --> 0:28:56.989
<v Speaker 2>my advice would be, don't ask me for advice.

0:28:57.750 --> 0:29:01.910
<v Speaker 1>Oh, but you know, this is a perfect example of

0:29:01.920 --> 0:29:06.300
<v Speaker 1>someone who or rather an example of someone who has

0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:09.219
<v Speaker 1>in the eyes of many young people out there, made

0:29:09.229 --> 0:29:13.619
<v Speaker 1>it managed to start his own business, manage other content creators.

0:29:13.630 --> 0:29:16.050
<v Speaker 1>And so, you know, definitely there will be questions on

0:29:16.060 --> 0:29:19.000
<v Speaker 1>how I can do that too, how a young or

0:29:19.010 --> 0:29:19.869
<v Speaker 1>someone else out

0:29:19.890 --> 0:29:22.869
<v Speaker 2>there passion, you must work hard, be consistent

0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:25.170
<v Speaker 1>and how do you manage your finances,

0:29:26.839 --> 0:29:31.000
<v Speaker 2>discipline and how to manage the finances? But should

0:29:31.010 --> 0:29:34.910
<v Speaker 1>I be buying my first supercar with? Is this something

0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:35.329
<v Speaker 1>that you,

0:29:35.420 --> 0:29:38.089
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if it, if it makes you happy, if

0:29:38.099 --> 0:29:41.020
<v Speaker 2>it justifies the work you have done, if you know what,

0:29:41.030 --> 0:29:44.420
<v Speaker 2>what your priority go for it. I think in life,

0:29:44.430 --> 0:29:46.400
<v Speaker 2>whether you are a content creator or not, you should

0:29:46.410 --> 0:29:50.939
<v Speaker 2>just enjoy and be happy. And there's not always an

0:29:50.949 --> 0:29:55.760
<v Speaker 2>absolute need to follow the traditional way of thinking. Life

0:29:55.770 --> 0:29:59.339
<v Speaker 2>is already very difficult work can be tough going out

0:29:59.349 --> 0:30:02.780
<v Speaker 2>with your friends buying something that is a little bit

0:30:02.790 --> 0:30:03.670
<v Speaker 2>more expensive.

0:30:03.900 --> 0:30:06.510
<v Speaker 2>It's fun. And if it makes you happy, you know,

0:30:06.520 --> 0:30:11.369
<v Speaker 2>if it makes everything more justifiable, then sure. OK. Takes

0:30:11.380 --> 0:30:11.729
<v Speaker 2>away the

0:30:11.739 --> 0:30:15.219
<v Speaker 1>misery. That's a wise word. So while many are drawn

0:30:15.229 --> 0:30:17.949
<v Speaker 1>to the flexibility of working at your own pace and

0:30:17.959 --> 0:30:20.670
<v Speaker 1>being your own boss and recognize that it is possible

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:24.699
<v Speaker 1>to monetize your hobby. It's really not as rosy as

0:30:24.709 --> 0:30:27.270
<v Speaker 1>it seems, but as we heard, it can be a

0:30:27.280 --> 0:30:31.560
<v Speaker 1>legitimate career and not just because Oxford Dictionary added the

0:30:31.569 --> 0:30:32.290
<v Speaker 1>word influencer

0:30:32.380 --> 0:30:35.880
<v Speaker 1>back in 2022. So how and Debbie thank you so

0:30:35.890 --> 0:30:38.270
<v Speaker 1>much for coming on the show and thank you to

0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:42.609
<v Speaker 1>our listeners for tuning in. If you've enjoyed this episode

0:30:42.619 --> 0:30:46.609
<v Speaker 1>of Money Talks, do check out our other content on Spotify,

0:30:46.619 --> 0:30:49.910
<v Speaker 1>Apple or Google Podcasts. And we're also gonna be taking

0:30:49.920 --> 0:30:52.209
<v Speaker 1>a short break, do follow us so that, you know,

0:30:52.219 --> 0:30:55.560
<v Speaker 1>when the new episodes drop. Now the team behind Money

0:30:55.569 --> 0:31:00.069
<v Speaker 1>Talks is Joanne Chan, Jacqueline Chan, Christina Robert and me,

0:31:00.079 --> 0:31:00.550
<v Speaker 1>Liz Neil.