1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,328 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:05,780 --> 00:00:08,738 Speaker 1: If we're honest, every single one of us would admit 3 00:00:08,750 --> 00:00:12,688 Speaker 1: to following a social media influencer online. They may be 4 00:00:12,699 --> 00:00:17,430 Speaker 1: a funny personality who does bad impressions, an impossibly thin 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,510 Speaker 1: model who flies business class with her pet pooch or 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,870 Speaker 1: someone who tells her fellow mummies how to eat whatever 7 00:00:24,879 --> 00:00:27,049 Speaker 1: you want and still stay slim, 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,559 Speaker 1: love them or loathe them. They are part of what 9 00:00:30,569 --> 00:00:35,528 Speaker 1: is now known as the creator economy. Goldman Sachs estimates 10 00:00:35,540 --> 00:00:38,888 Speaker 1: this could double in size to hit half a trillion 11 00:00:39,098 --> 00:00:43,259 Speaker 1: by 2027. And the thing is data shows that only 4% 12 00:00:43,270 --> 00:00:48,409 Speaker 1: of global creators make more than $100,000 a year. And 13 00:00:48,418 --> 00:00:50,689 Speaker 1: that's what we want to talk about today. How does 14 00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:54,470 Speaker 1: one create a stable income by being a content creator? 15 00:00:54,479 --> 00:00:57,869 Speaker 1: How do you plan your finances when you've got money 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:58,529 Speaker 1: coming in? 17 00:00:58,750 --> 00:01:01,590 Speaker 1: It's me, Elizabeth Neo and thank you for listening to 18 00:01:01,599 --> 00:01:06,239 Speaker 1: Money Talks. I'm back with my limited series. Am I adulting? Right? 19 00:01:06,250 --> 00:01:09,509 Speaker 1: Where I figure out some of life's money issues and 20 00:01:09,519 --> 00:01:13,050 Speaker 1: chat with people who may have the answers and joining 21 00:01:13,059 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: me to talk more about this is a local content creator, 22 00:01:17,089 --> 00:01:21,830 Speaker 1: Dian who runs his own multichannel network and manages other 23 00:01:21,839 --> 00:01:23,510 Speaker 1: content creators and, 24 00:01:24,114 --> 00:01:26,735 Speaker 1: and business owner Demi. So who is also the wife 25 00:01:26,745 --> 00:01:29,485 Speaker 1: of Tian Ha. Thank you for joining us today. I 26 00:01:29,495 --> 00:01:32,175 Speaker 1: just want to start off by asking the two of 27 00:01:32,184 --> 00:01:35,495 Speaker 1: you how you got started as a content creator or 28 00:01:35,504 --> 00:01:36,855 Speaker 1: an influencer. I 29 00:01:36,864 --> 00:01:39,525 Speaker 2: got started when I was in high school. 10 years. 30 00:01:39,535 --> 00:01:43,014 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, 12 years ago when I lived in Vietnam. 31 00:01:43,025 --> 00:01:45,994 Speaker 2: So I actually lived in Cambodia first for five years 32 00:01:46,004 --> 00:01:48,375 Speaker 2: and then Vietnam for six years. So we started around 33 00:01:48,385 --> 00:01:48,955 Speaker 2: 2010 34 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,510 Speaker 2: and the, the first video was actually a school project video. 35 00:01:53,519 --> 00:01:57,629 Speaker 2: And our job was to create an anti-bullying video. Then 36 00:01:57,639 --> 00:01:59,529 Speaker 2: we picked up some skills and then me and my 37 00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:01,980 Speaker 2: friends thought, hey, actually we could make this a thing. 38 00:02:02,250 --> 00:02:05,309 Speaker 2: So we started doing some sketches, how to cut the queue, 39 00:02:05,319 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: how to cut the line and even how to cross 40 00:02:07,769 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 2: the road in Vietnam. So giving tips like this, our 41 00:02:11,250 --> 00:02:15,630 Speaker 2: youtube channel, it took off a little and then after that, 42 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:16,869 Speaker 2: I came back to Singapore 43 00:02:17,410 --> 00:02:21,508 Speaker 2: and I started my media agency four years later. Did 44 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,509 Speaker 1: you think that creating videos would propel you into starting 45 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: your own multichannel network? You've got so many followers online, 46 00:02:29,330 --> 00:02:31,779 Speaker 1: you also manage other content creators. Did you ever think 47 00:02:31,788 --> 00:02:35,610 Speaker 1: that starting a youtube channel making videos would set you 48 00:02:35,619 --> 00:02:36,539 Speaker 1: on that path? 49 00:02:36,820 --> 00:02:40,020 Speaker 2: It initially wasn't the plan at the start, I just, 50 00:02:40,029 --> 00:02:42,350 Speaker 2: my dream was just to not work for anyone. 51 00:02:43,559 --> 00:02:44,300 Speaker 1: Ok. 52 00:02:45,889 --> 00:02:48,038 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it seems to have come true for 53 00:02:48,050 --> 00:02:49,830 Speaker 1: you because you don't work for anyone. You work 54 00:02:49,839 --> 00:02:51,758 Speaker 2: for yourself. It took me a few years to realize 55 00:02:51,770 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: that there's no such thing as not working for anyone 56 00:02:54,449 --> 00:02:57,448 Speaker 2: that you will always be accountable for people in the end. I, 57 00:02:57,460 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 2: I work for work for more people. 58 00:03:00,770 --> 00:03:03,210 Speaker 1: Ok, Debbie. Did you always want to be a content creator? 59 00:03:03,220 --> 00:03:03,750 Speaker 1: I think in the 60 00:03:03,758 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 2: beginning. No. Um oh, I'm not done with my story 61 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,190 Speaker 2: after, after high school, I started the agency and then 62 00:03:12,199 --> 00:03:15,649 Speaker 2: we brought in a few creators under the network. And 63 00:03:15,669 --> 00:03:18,538 Speaker 2: when Debbie and I first got together, I always knew 64 00:03:18,550 --> 00:03:20,809 Speaker 2: Debbie had what it takes to be a content creator. 65 00:03:20,820 --> 00:03:22,889 Speaker 2: I east her in slowly 66 00:03:23,220 --> 00:03:27,109 Speaker 2: and then um everything just naturally happened. 67 00:03:27,179 --> 00:03:29,690 Speaker 1: I want to know about getting started and, and whether 68 00:03:29,699 --> 00:03:32,449 Speaker 1: this was actually part of your career plan to become 69 00:03:32,460 --> 00:03:36,619 Speaker 1: a content creator and make that like a full time job. Oh, definitely. 70 00:03:36,630 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: It was never in my plans and I'm, I'm not 71 00:03:39,330 --> 00:03:42,149 Speaker 2: a person that plans very, very fine to the future. 72 00:03:42,309 --> 00:03:44,350 Speaker 2: And I took it one step at a time. I mean, 73 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,029 Speaker 2: when we first met, when we fell in love, 74 00:03:46,130 --> 00:03:48,729 Speaker 2: it was just me going to school and stuff and 75 00:03:48,740 --> 00:03:52,169 Speaker 2: we started the cafe business when I was in school. 76 00:03:52,179 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: So at that point of time, I was helping to 77 00:03:53,889 --> 00:03:57,100 Speaker 2: manage the cafe. And then slowly, slowly, we just eased 78 00:03:57,110 --> 00:03:59,190 Speaker 2: into it. He was asking me to appear in some 79 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:02,029 Speaker 2: of the videos and that's where like started to pick 80 00:04:02,039 --> 00:04:04,809 Speaker 2: up and I started to get my own like audience 81 00:04:04,820 --> 00:04:04,990 Speaker 2: and 82 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: followers. So which point did you find that? Hey, actually, 83 00:04:08,330 --> 00:04:12,130 Speaker 1: I can make this into a job that brings me 84 00:04:12,139 --> 00:04:12,919 Speaker 1: an income? 85 00:04:13,210 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: I think when their clients started coming in, when the 86 00:04:16,209 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: brand start working with 87 00:04:17,170 --> 00:04:20,459 Speaker 1: her for you, when did you realize that this could 88 00:04:20,470 --> 00:04:24,779 Speaker 1: be a job? Maybe when you started to see money clients? 89 00:04:24,790 --> 00:04:25,209 Speaker 1: Even when 90 00:04:25,238 --> 00:04:28,089 Speaker 2: I first started seeing money come in, I wasn't sure 91 00:04:28,109 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 2: what the industry will be like, how long I will 92 00:04:31,170 --> 00:04:33,380 Speaker 2: be here for because the typical shelf life for an 93 00:04:33,390 --> 00:04:37,229 Speaker 2: influencer or content creator is around four years. So that's 94 00:04:37,238 --> 00:04:39,570 Speaker 1: very interesting. I want to actually hear more about that 95 00:04:39,579 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: when you say shelf life, meaning 96 00:04:42,510 --> 00:04:45,420 Speaker 2: meaning after four years, they kind of either drop off 97 00:04:45,428 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: or they no longer be relevant or someone in the 98 00:04:48,890 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: same field becomes newer and they come in with more 99 00:04:52,820 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: skills or something fresher. So 100 00:04:55,678 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: how do you drop off? Do you get less sponsorships? 101 00:04:58,928 --> 00:05:01,790 Speaker 1: Do brands start to not want to work with you 102 00:05:01,799 --> 00:05:02,609 Speaker 1: as much? 103 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: I think it's the same like a product life cycle 104 00:05:05,329 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: for any brand that brings in a product or like 105 00:05:07,649 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 2: shampoo or something. They always still have to refresh their 106 00:05:10,488 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 2: product or do a rebrand or just the same as 107 00:05:14,170 --> 00:05:18,969 Speaker 2: content creators, they have to stay relevant, reinvent themselves. And 108 00:05:18,980 --> 00:05:20,429 Speaker 2: it's quite rare to see 109 00:05:20,690 --> 00:05:24,190 Speaker 2: content creators remain at the top level for a very 110 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,339 Speaker 2: long time. No, no, no, no. 111 00:05:27,970 --> 00:05:28,769 Speaker 1: Very supportive. 112 00:05:28,988 --> 00:05:32,820 Speaker 2: Yes, she's very supportive. But generally they are so jaded 113 00:05:32,829 --> 00:05:35,700 Speaker 2: from content creation that they, they usually take a break 114 00:05:35,709 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: and find something else. Or 115 00:05:37,529 --> 00:05:39,950 Speaker 2: um it could even be on the upside where you 116 00:05:39,959 --> 00:05:44,700 Speaker 2: leverage on your influence to build something bigger than just 117 00:05:44,709 --> 00:05:47,970 Speaker 2: being an influencer. And then you realize that is the 118 00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:50,140 Speaker 2: path that you want to go. So that being a 119 00:05:50,149 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 2: content creator is often a stepping stone to something else. 120 00:05:55,488 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: But at the same time, it could be your main 121 00:05:58,450 --> 00:06:00,519 Speaker 2: career if you put your heart and soul 122 00:06:00,529 --> 00:06:02,089 Speaker 1: into it. So you make plenty of good points. I 123 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: actually want to follow up on some of them. 124 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,209 Speaker 1: For some, it is a stepping stone to something bigger, 125 00:06:07,220 --> 00:06:10,250 Speaker 1: but for others, it is the end goal I think 126 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:13,089 Speaker 1: for some people who want to convert influencing as their 127 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: part time hustle into a full time career. Have you 128 00:06:17,329 --> 00:06:20,089 Speaker 1: seen examples of people who are like that? And 129 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:22,328 Speaker 2: we manage a lot of influences. So, 130 00:06:22,434 --> 00:06:25,665 Speaker 2: so we've seen all kinds of influences and there are 131 00:06:25,674 --> 00:06:28,964 Speaker 2: the kinds that doing content while they are studying, they 132 00:06:28,975 --> 00:06:32,725 Speaker 2: are the ones who quit school to do it full time. 133 00:06:32,734 --> 00:06:35,743 Speaker 2: There are also people who work and do content creation 134 00:06:35,755 --> 00:06:38,604 Speaker 2: on the site. So there's all, all of the different 135 00:06:38,613 --> 00:06:40,795 Speaker 2: types of influences I would say. 136 00:06:41,315 --> 00:06:44,785 Speaker 1: So how does one get into making a full time 137 00:06:44,795 --> 00:06:47,105 Speaker 1: career out of content creation? 138 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,010 Speaker 2: I think it comes down to what they plan to achieve. 139 00:06:51,019 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: It's easy for youths or people to say they want 140 00:06:53,769 --> 00:06:55,089 Speaker 2: to be a content creator. 141 00:06:55,299 --> 00:06:57,700 Speaker 2: But what does that actually mean? Does that just mean 142 00:06:57,709 --> 00:07:00,350 Speaker 2: that they want to be famous or does that mean 143 00:07:00,359 --> 00:07:02,909 Speaker 2: that they don't want to work for someone or does 144 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,350 Speaker 2: it mean that they just want to take pictures and 145 00:07:05,359 --> 00:07:08,660 Speaker 2: look nice travel? It's because it does seem like a 146 00:07:08,670 --> 00:07:13,269 Speaker 2: very glorious and fun life. But oftentimes that's not the case. Yeah, 147 00:07:13,279 --> 00:07:15,630 Speaker 2: there are many things that happen behind the scenes that 148 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:20,500 Speaker 2: are not seen by the public like for him doing 149 00:07:20,510 --> 00:07:23,309 Speaker 2: youtube and social media, like everyone's just like, you know, hey, 150 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,079 Speaker 2: it's just a 10 minute video and what 151 00:07:25,204 --> 00:07:27,774 Speaker 2: say, how can I drive such a nice car and like, 152 00:07:27,855 --> 00:07:31,035 Speaker 2: you know, have such a luxurious life but the struggles 153 00:07:31,045 --> 00:07:34,125 Speaker 2: that they don't see behind the scenes, the scripting, the editing, 154 00:07:34,135 --> 00:07:37,165 Speaker 2: the production, everything that happens are not seen, right? And 155 00:07:37,174 --> 00:07:39,614 Speaker 2: they think that it's a very like straightforward and simple, 156 00:07:39,625 --> 00:07:41,714 Speaker 2: like 10 minute video, but a 10 minute video takes 157 00:07:41,725 --> 00:07:45,054 Speaker 2: more than a week to produce. It's far from straightforward 158 00:07:45,065 --> 00:07:49,214 Speaker 2: and now that the industry is so saturated, there's influences everywhere. 159 00:07:49,225 --> 00:07:53,024 Speaker 2: Almost everyone is an influencer, it then becomes hard for 160 00:07:53,035 --> 00:07:55,035 Speaker 2: someone to want to pursue 161 00:07:55,260 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: this if they do not have the right goals in 162 00:07:58,209 --> 00:07:59,029 Speaker 2: mind and the right 163 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,269 Speaker 1: plan. Another thing you said earlier was that some people 164 00:08:02,279 --> 00:08:06,078 Speaker 1: use a leverage on their positions as a content creator 165 00:08:06,089 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: influencer to, you know, start businesses and sort of that 166 00:08:10,209 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: extends their shelf life. So I know you have a 167 00:08:12,329 --> 00:08:16,690 Speaker 1: jewelry business. Is this something that's right. Um This is 168 00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:20,350 Speaker 1: a path that you took, talk about how you were 169 00:08:20,359 --> 00:08:22,929 Speaker 1: able to extend shelf life or this was starting your 170 00:08:22,940 --> 00:08:22,970 Speaker 1: own 171 00:08:23,070 --> 00:08:26,079 Speaker 1: own jewelry business. Part of your long term plan as 172 00:08:26,089 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: an influencer because bear in mind what said some people 173 00:08:29,329 --> 00:08:32,039 Speaker 1: you fall out, you fall behind. There always be younger, 174 00:08:32,049 --> 00:08:34,849 Speaker 1: more popular people coming on to the space. I 175 00:08:34,859 --> 00:08:38,659 Speaker 2: never stepped in meeting him wanting to become a content creator. 176 00:08:38,669 --> 00:08:41,340 Speaker 2: It happened along the way, but ever since I was young, 177 00:08:41,349 --> 00:08:43,770 Speaker 2: I knew I wanted to start my own business. Um 178 00:08:43,780 --> 00:08:45,690 Speaker 2: So before I started, 179 00:08:46,130 --> 00:08:49,590 Speaker 2: so I actually run a dog bakery called the Wolf Bakery. 180 00:08:49,599 --> 00:08:52,159 Speaker 2: So I was baking doggie cakes from home and I 181 00:08:52,169 --> 00:08:54,979 Speaker 2: really enjoyed that. But I realized there was a little 182 00:08:54,989 --> 00:08:58,179 Speaker 2: bit of limitations when it comes to baking cakes by 183 00:08:58,190 --> 00:09:00,770 Speaker 2: myself because it was very difficult. We were traveling a lot. 184 00:09:00,780 --> 00:09:02,390 Speaker 2: At that point of time, we had a lot of 185 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,478 Speaker 2: like commitments. We were going to like different countries every 186 00:09:05,489 --> 00:09:08,978 Speaker 2: other few weeks. And at that point of time, I was, 187 00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:11,989 Speaker 2: I think a few customers because we take in orders, 188 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,119 Speaker 2: like in advance and then last minute I'll be like, sorry, 189 00:09:14,130 --> 00:09:15,650 Speaker 2: I really have to go on a trip and then 190 00:09:15,659 --> 00:09:18,500 Speaker 2: I have to cancel. And so eventually I stopped doing 191 00:09:18,510 --> 00:09:21,239 Speaker 2: the wolf. Although it was a very, very fun and 192 00:09:21,250 --> 00:09:24,059 Speaker 2: exciting time for me. It was very personal because she 193 00:09:24,070 --> 00:09:27,890 Speaker 2: baked every cake herself. Yeah, I, I have to see 194 00:09:28,150 --> 00:09:32,119 Speaker 2: the potato. Yes, she was my unpaid stuff. 195 00:09:33,070 --> 00:09:34,969 Speaker 2: But yeah, it was really fun. So all along, I 196 00:09:34,979 --> 00:09:37,309 Speaker 2: kind of knew that I wanted to run my own business. 197 00:09:37,390 --> 00:09:40,780 Speaker 2: I like making decisions like being creative and doing a 198 00:09:40,789 --> 00:09:43,659 Speaker 2: lot of hands on things. So um after I stopped 199 00:09:43,669 --> 00:09:46,809 Speaker 2: the Wolf Bakery, I think not long after we got married, 200 00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:50,150 Speaker 2: I realized how girls really like accessories and diamonds and 201 00:09:50,159 --> 00:09:52,820 Speaker 2: for myself personally, I'm very, very clumsy. So I will 202 00:09:52,830 --> 00:09:55,250 Speaker 2: lose my expensive things, right? 203 00:09:55,333 --> 00:09:58,421 Speaker 2: So I was looking for a good alternative for girls 204 00:09:58,432 --> 00:10:00,812 Speaker 2: or anyone who likes diamonds. So that's why I got 205 00:10:00,822 --> 00:10:04,093 Speaker 2: into a co creating my own brand. So 206 00:10:04,102 --> 00:10:08,052 Speaker 1: starting your jewelry brand was born from your passion as 207 00:10:08,062 --> 00:10:11,132 Speaker 1: when you were younger to eventually run your own business. 208 00:10:11,362 --> 00:10:15,132 Speaker 1: Do you find that it is something that influences content 209 00:10:15,143 --> 00:10:17,642 Speaker 1: creators these days are actually pivoting 210 00:10:17,726 --> 00:10:21,684 Speaker 1: to especially those that are much older, you know, in 211 00:10:21,695 --> 00:10:24,455 Speaker 1: order to extend their shelf life, so to speak. 212 00:10:24,676 --> 00:10:28,976 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. It's, it's a pattern we see because to 213 00:10:28,986 --> 00:10:33,675 Speaker 2: follow and influences brand, it's very exciting as an audience 214 00:10:33,684 --> 00:10:36,966 Speaker 2: to understand their journey, to follow them for a long 215 00:10:36,976 --> 00:10:40,015 Speaker 2: time and then to see them launch a brand, 216 00:10:40,250 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: a business. Um You just want to support them. I 217 00:10:42,890 --> 00:10:44,700 Speaker 2: think they feel like it's very personal and they were 218 00:10:44,710 --> 00:10:47,380 Speaker 2: part of the entire journey, building the business together with 219 00:10:47,390 --> 00:10:49,539 Speaker 2: you and watching it grow. I think they feel like 220 00:10:49,549 --> 00:10:52,099 Speaker 2: it's a very personal journey. Like we share like all 221 00:10:52,109 --> 00:10:54,010 Speaker 2: aspects of the business. 222 00:10:54,359 --> 00:10:57,030 Speaker 1: So this podcast, right? We talk a lot about finance, 223 00:10:57,039 --> 00:11:01,500 Speaker 1: financial advice, personal finances for someone who is intending to 224 00:11:01,510 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: become a full time content creator. 225 00:11:04,969 --> 00:11:08,349 Speaker 1: How do you make sure that this is a lucrative career? 226 00:11:08,799 --> 00:11:13,010 Speaker 1: How do you work with brands, negotiate payment, that sort 227 00:11:13,020 --> 00:11:14,419 Speaker 1: of thing because you are your own boss at the 228 00:11:14,429 --> 00:11:14,929 Speaker 1: end of the day, 229 00:11:14,940 --> 00:11:18,799 Speaker 2: right? Yes, you are however, not all creators are entrepreneurs 230 00:11:18,809 --> 00:11:21,780 Speaker 2: or should be. So a lot of them are. No, 231 00:11:21,789 --> 00:11:27,500 Speaker 2: it's true. Some are amazing and so talented in 232 00:11:27,909 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 2: the view of content creation, in video making in photos, 233 00:11:32,450 --> 00:11:35,669 Speaker 2: in articulating their words, in podcast, stuff like this, right? 234 00:11:35,809 --> 00:11:38,090 Speaker 2: You have, you see a lot of these, but how 235 00:11:38,099 --> 00:11:41,929 Speaker 2: many of them actually have the business skills are? Exactly. 236 00:11:41,940 --> 00:11:43,419 Speaker 1: So how do you convert that into a 237 00:11:43,554 --> 00:11:47,364 Speaker 2: um So for people like this to earn money, my 238 00:11:47,375 --> 00:11:49,825 Speaker 2: suggestion for them would be to work closely with an 239 00:11:49,835 --> 00:11:53,044 Speaker 2: agency that they trust for me. 10 years ago when 240 00:11:53,054 --> 00:11:55,984 Speaker 2: I first started, I actually signed to an agency. And 241 00:11:55,994 --> 00:11:59,145 Speaker 2: through that, it gave me the chance to create 242 00:11:59,409 --> 00:12:02,479 Speaker 2: and focus on creating. While at the same time, I 243 00:12:02,489 --> 00:12:06,819 Speaker 2: have a manager representing me and a good company who 244 00:12:06,830 --> 00:12:08,190 Speaker 2: negotiates for me 245 00:12:08,869 --> 00:12:13,010 Speaker 1: as a content creator yourself. And you also manage other 246 00:12:13,020 --> 00:12:15,750 Speaker 1: content creators. I think I want to ask this question, 247 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,900 Speaker 1: how much can you realistically expect to make? How much 248 00:12:18,909 --> 00:12:20,500 Speaker 1: does a content creator make? 249 00:12:21,049 --> 00:12:25,179 Speaker 2: I think it can range from anywhere from like zero millions. 250 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:26,169 Speaker 2: Like if you 251 00:12:26,325 --> 00:12:29,025 Speaker 2: the top creators in the world, Mr be Logan Paul 252 00:12:29,145 --> 00:12:33,474 Speaker 2: K si they are earning such big bucks. Even Ryan's 253 00:12:33,484 --> 00:12:35,375 Speaker 2: world who just does toys, toy 254 00:12:35,385 --> 00:12:39,335 Speaker 1: reviews. What about in Singapore? Don't compare with the US 255 00:12:39,344 --> 00:12:41,955 Speaker 1: guys because there is also a much bigger market there. 256 00:12:42,234 --> 00:12:45,945 Speaker 1: How much are content creators making? For example, one tiktok 257 00:12:45,955 --> 00:12:49,405 Speaker 1: post one Instagram post one Instagram story. How many a 258 00:12:49,414 --> 00:12:51,565 Speaker 1: month do you do then at the end of the day? 259 00:12:51,575 --> 00:12:53,135 Speaker 1: How much do you make in a year? 260 00:12:53,380 --> 00:12:58,119 Speaker 2: It can really range from 00 to anything I would 261 00:12:58,130 --> 00:12:58,869 Speaker 2: say millions 262 00:12:59,330 --> 00:13:02,830 Speaker 1: even in Singapore. Why not? How much could we realistically 263 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,729 Speaker 1: expect to pay for one Instagram post for someone who 264 00:13:06,739 --> 00:13:08,390 Speaker 1: is quite well known in 265 00:13:09,039 --> 00:13:10,210 Speaker 1: the creator scene? 266 00:13:10,219 --> 00:13:12,659 Speaker 2: Maybe 2 to 10,000. If you if you are working 267 00:13:12,669 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 2: a brand, if you're a smaller influencer, the budget will 268 00:13:15,450 --> 00:13:17,450 Speaker 2: of course be a little bit smaller and then they will. 269 00:13:17,460 --> 00:13:19,909 Speaker 2: But the three of you for example, um they will, 270 00:13:19,919 --> 00:13:22,010 Speaker 2: they will send you some of their product and hope 271 00:13:22,020 --> 00:13:25,090 Speaker 2: that you can post about it. And then on the 272 00:13:25,099 --> 00:13:29,309 Speaker 2: more macro influencer side, then the fee tends to get 273 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,349 Speaker 2: a little bit higher and it can range up to 274 00:13:31,359 --> 00:13:32,059 Speaker 2: five digits. 275 00:13:32,140 --> 00:13:35,729 Speaker 1: And that's just for one post. How many requests for 276 00:13:35,739 --> 00:13:38,409 Speaker 1: post do you get a month? For example, me 277 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,020 Speaker 1: in general it doesn't have to be you. But how 278 00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:45,049 Speaker 1: about the people that you manage? Maybe 34 requests for posts? Yeah, 279 00:13:45,229 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 2: 3 to 4 is reasonable. If they work harder, it 280 00:13:47,849 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: would be more, for example, it will be less. 281 00:13:51,260 --> 00:13:53,460 Speaker 1: So how many, what's the most you've seen 282 00:13:54,169 --> 00:13:58,049 Speaker 2: the most? I've seen? 0 to 10, 0 to 10 283 00:13:58,059 --> 00:13:58,710 Speaker 2: is 10 a 284 00:13:58,719 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: month 285 00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:03,140 Speaker 1: possible 10 Instagram posts a month. 286 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,339 Speaker 2: Yeah, there are also like IG stories, I GREs tiktok, 287 00:14:06,349 --> 00:14:10,979 Speaker 2: different platforms also that your brain can share appearing in videos. 288 00:14:11,729 --> 00:14:15,510 Speaker 1: So on. How many sort of engagements on average do 289 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,030 Speaker 1: you see a month? So this can be um your 290 00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:21,739 Speaker 1: Instagram post, your reals, plus your tiktok videos and appearing 291 00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:24,619 Speaker 1: youtube videos. How many you know these sort of engagements 292 00:14:24,630 --> 00:14:26,340 Speaker 1: do you see in a month 293 00:14:27,380 --> 00:14:28,010 Speaker 1: back then? 294 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: 10 is the average 295 00:14:30,539 --> 00:14:33,609 Speaker 2: 10 would be a good number if you want to 296 00:14:33,619 --> 00:14:35,869 Speaker 2: take up the job, I'm sure there is a formula 297 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,820 Speaker 2: to calculate the comfort of a content creator on on. 298 00:14:39,830 --> 00:14:42,849 Speaker 2: I think everybody has a different equation. Some may do 299 00:14:42,859 --> 00:14:47,270 Speaker 2: it for you know, literally nothing for just free products 300 00:14:47,570 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: and like, 301 00:14:49,224 --> 00:14:52,205 Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, until they, until they see that it's a 302 00:14:52,215 --> 00:14:56,155 Speaker 2: sustainable career and some will reject all the free stuff 303 00:14:56,164 --> 00:14:58,864 Speaker 2: and only demand money. Everyone is different. 304 00:14:59,525 --> 00:15:01,585 Speaker 1: OK? So you're saying it doesn't matter how many you 305 00:15:01,594 --> 00:15:03,645 Speaker 1: have at the end of the day, how many followers 306 00:15:03,655 --> 00:15:05,315 Speaker 1: you have at the end of the day, it's 307 00:15:05,325 --> 00:15:12,344 Speaker 2: not the only metric. There are multiple consideration factors that 308 00:15:12,354 --> 00:15:13,155 Speaker 2: come into play 309 00:15:13,510 --> 00:15:18,039 Speaker 2: and followers are just one of them. Followers, oftentimes also 310 00:15:18,049 --> 00:15:22,619 Speaker 2: just give credibility to the influencer like, OK, we know 311 00:15:22,630 --> 00:15:28,359 Speaker 2: this person has a certain amount of subscribers followers throughout 312 00:15:28,369 --> 00:15:30,580 Speaker 2: their platforms. We know that um they have built a 313 00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:34,330 Speaker 2: following over the years, something like that. Then you start 314 00:15:34,340 --> 00:15:35,539 Speaker 2: to see their engagement 315 00:15:35,820 --> 00:15:38,549 Speaker 2: and then you see the quality of the content that 316 00:15:38,559 --> 00:15:42,070 Speaker 2: they make, do they understand the trends? Um Is there 317 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,650 Speaker 2: a certain creativity in their content? 318 00:15:44,869 --> 00:15:47,469 Speaker 2: So these are all the factors that we consider when 319 00:15:47,479 --> 00:15:51,030 Speaker 2: working with an influencer and even bring an influencer on board? 320 00:15:51,039 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: I can, I can tell you the truth right now, 321 00:15:52,409 --> 00:15:56,390 Speaker 2: a 50,000 follower creator can go from zero, they can 322 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:01,130 Speaker 2: literally earn $0 for like 6 to 12 months. And 323 00:16:01,140 --> 00:16:05,570 Speaker 2: there's there could be another 50,000 follower influencers who can 324 00:16:05,580 --> 00:16:06,619 Speaker 2: earn up to 100,000 325 00:16:06,815 --> 00:16:07,554 Speaker 2: per year. 326 00:16:08,375 --> 00:16:10,705 Speaker 1: And what sets those two influencers apart? 327 00:16:10,715 --> 00:16:13,375 Speaker 2: Then? Well, then, then it comes down to um the 328 00:16:13,385 --> 00:16:16,715 Speaker 2: sources of revenue for the influencer? Like what, what does 329 00:16:16,724 --> 00:16:20,875 Speaker 2: the influencer encompass? How hard does the influencer work and 330 00:16:20,885 --> 00:16:23,015 Speaker 2: what is their niche? What is their audience? Let me 331 00:16:23,025 --> 00:16:25,645 Speaker 2: give you an example. If you are a parents and 332 00:16:25,655 --> 00:16:28,505 Speaker 2: you look up to a certain parenting influencer, 333 00:16:29,099 --> 00:16:33,070 Speaker 2: when you go to look for maybe stuff like milk powders, 334 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:38,820 Speaker 2: diapers or other other stuff, maybe clothes, you would tend 335 00:16:38,830 --> 00:16:43,309 Speaker 2: to trust their recommendations. And then if you are a brand, 336 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: this is the influencer that you will go to. So 337 00:16:46,969 --> 00:16:51,020 Speaker 2: as an influencer to earn more money, they need to 338 00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:52,919 Speaker 2: have a niche and they need to gain the trust 339 00:16:52,929 --> 00:16:56,799 Speaker 2: of their audience. So for somebody like this, they would 340 00:16:56,809 --> 00:17:00,659 Speaker 2: tend to earn more as compared to someone who just 341 00:17:00,669 --> 00:17:02,229 Speaker 2: takes nice photos, for example. 342 00:17:02,380 --> 00:17:04,050 Speaker 1: So developing area. 343 00:17:04,060 --> 00:17:07,060 Speaker 2: So if you ask me, followers do not play that 344 00:17:07,069 --> 00:17:09,810 Speaker 2: much of a part in how much you earn. It's, 345 00:17:09,819 --> 00:17:11,949 Speaker 2: it's just a range of your audience. But 346 00:17:12,489 --> 00:17:16,938 Speaker 2: even as an agency, we tend to not segregate influences 347 00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:22,459 Speaker 2: by their follower number, but through their engagement and their influence, 348 00:17:22,550 --> 00:17:25,419 Speaker 1: if I'm interpreting this right, you're trying to say that 349 00:17:25,819 --> 00:17:29,790 Speaker 1: it depends on the niche area and that particular audience 350 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: that you are engaging. 351 00:17:30,930 --> 00:17:34,729 Speaker 2: So even your niche may be a more lucrative industry. 352 00:17:34,859 --> 00:17:38,420 Speaker 2: For example, if your niche is in tech, in gaming, 353 00:17:38,430 --> 00:17:41,599 Speaker 2: in parenting, it could be a lot more than if 354 00:17:41,609 --> 00:17:44,319 Speaker 2: you were in the business of, I don't know something 355 00:17:44,329 --> 00:17:44,669 Speaker 2: else 356 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,060 Speaker 1: So would you say, would you attribute that to, you know, 357 00:17:48,069 --> 00:17:51,550 Speaker 1: part of your success as quite a well known influencer? 358 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,250 Speaker 1: Because we see a lot of them out there, but 359 00:17:54,260 --> 00:17:56,939 Speaker 1: only very few make it to the top, have big 360 00:17:56,949 --> 00:17:59,669 Speaker 1: brands that they work with and also have a longer 361 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: shelf life than most others. So would you say that 362 00:18:01,930 --> 00:18:03,770 Speaker 1: having a niche? And now that would you attribute that 363 00:18:03,780 --> 00:18:05,609 Speaker 1: to be part of your success? 364 00:18:06,380 --> 00:18:10,500 Speaker 2: Um Yes or no. For me, I focused on the 365 00:18:10,510 --> 00:18:14,020 Speaker 2: mass audience. So I did not focus on a niche. 366 00:18:14,739 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 2: So the way I grew, my audience was through a 367 00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:21,929 Speaker 2: mass audience and, and through viral topics 368 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 2: that got me quite international and grew a pretty international 369 00:18:26,130 --> 00:18:30,270 Speaker 2: fan base. And it also helped my standing in the 370 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:31,209 Speaker 2: Singapore market 371 00:18:31,349 --> 00:18:36,030 Speaker 1: for Debbie. How did you raise your profile as a creator? 372 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:41,030 Speaker 2: I focus a lot on being myself and being a wife, 373 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,130 Speaker 2: a mom and a business owner. I show different aspects 374 00:18:44,140 --> 00:18:45,389 Speaker 2: of my life and I 375 00:18:45,459 --> 00:18:47,270 Speaker 2: to be as real as I can to share like 376 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 2: the struggles, the successes. And that's when I feel like 377 00:18:50,770 --> 00:18:53,540 Speaker 2: I really get to connect with my audience and also 378 00:18:53,550 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 2: build the trust. Yeah, she's very chill just what she wants. 379 00:18:58,729 --> 00:19:00,910 Speaker 2: Sometimes I have to tell her like that this post 380 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,329 Speaker 2: is too dark, like shoot it outside. I'm like just 381 00:19:03,339 --> 00:19:03,489 Speaker 2: let 382 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: me post, maybe authenticity is key and it's something that 383 00:19:07,369 --> 00:19:08,430 Speaker 1: people like to see. 384 00:19:14,989 --> 00:19:18,189 Speaker 1: Hello everyone. My name is Christina and I'm Adrian and 385 00:19:18,199 --> 00:19:20,619 Speaker 1: we're the host of a podcast called Work It If 386 00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:22,609 Speaker 1: you never heard of it. Well, it's a good time 387 00:19:22,619 --> 00:19:25,438 Speaker 1: to tap in. In the last three episodes. We've discussed 388 00:19:25,449 --> 00:19:28,579 Speaker 1: topics like how to negotiate for a salary increase or 389 00:19:28,589 --> 00:19:31,188 Speaker 1: how to get along with younger colleagues who have different 390 00:19:31,199 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: values from you. 391 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,109 Speaker 1: Incidentally is our top performing episode. If work consumes your 392 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: life and you want some perspective on issues like management stress, 393 00:19:39,770 --> 00:19:43,589 Speaker 1: even office romance. This podcast should be on your list. 394 00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:46,649 Speaker 1: A new episode drops every Monday. Catch us on the 395 00:19:46,660 --> 00:19:49,609 Speaker 1: CN A app or wherever you get your podcast. 396 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: Um I also think that a lot of your income 397 00:19:59,650 --> 00:20:02,930 Speaker 1: streams comes from working with, with brands, right? So from 398 00:20:02,939 --> 00:20:05,469 Speaker 1: your experience, some tips that you may have, how do 399 00:20:05,479 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: influencers or content features determine their worth when they work 400 00:20:08,770 --> 00:20:12,810 Speaker 1: with brands, how do you negotiate better deals with 401 00:20:12,819 --> 00:20:16,489 Speaker 2: brands? Join the right agency? I think you have to 402 00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:19,150 Speaker 2: trust the right agency to represent you first 403 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,420 Speaker 2: because at this day and age with so many influencers 404 00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:26,339 Speaker 2: around the world, the market is so saturated, it's also 405 00:20:26,349 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 2: very normal for a brand to not know who to 406 00:20:29,890 --> 00:20:33,030 Speaker 2: work with. So if you work with an agency that 407 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 2: is able to sell you, well, I think that is 408 00:20:35,209 --> 00:20:38,530 Speaker 2: very important and at the same time, you can focus 409 00:20:38,540 --> 00:20:40,780 Speaker 2: on your content creation. 410 00:20:41,209 --> 00:20:43,698 Speaker 1: What are some common mistakes that people starting out as 411 00:20:43,709 --> 00:20:46,250 Speaker 1: content creators or influencers make 412 00:20:46,819 --> 00:20:49,530 Speaker 2: a lot of them are trying to imitate someone or 413 00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:52,909 Speaker 2: trying to be someone. And it does take a very 414 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:58,069 Speaker 2: long time for youtubers to find their style. Even Mr 415 00:20:58,079 --> 00:21:01,739 Speaker 2: Bees took ages to finally become who he is today. 416 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 2: I myself took maybe 4 to 6 years to truly 417 00:21:05,290 --> 00:21:08,589 Speaker 2: understand what my style is. So as a youtuber or 418 00:21:08,599 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 2: content creator, I just think it comes down to just 419 00:21:11,369 --> 00:21:15,409 Speaker 2: doing posting and just getting your work out there 420 00:21:15,670 --> 00:21:19,290 Speaker 2: until you realize that there's something that works, then just 421 00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:23,589 Speaker 2: keep doing it in different ways. I think consistency, consistency 422 00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:27,510 Speaker 2: and having that discipline to post every day. I I 423 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,630 Speaker 2: think that's very important. You can have someone who is 424 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,989 Speaker 2: super creative, has a lot of opinions, but only post 425 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,810 Speaker 2: once a week or post a blurry photo with a 426 00:21:38,819 --> 00:21:42,310 Speaker 2: long caption. Then it would not work as well as 427 00:21:42,319 --> 00:21:44,300 Speaker 2: somebody who post seven times a week, 428 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,750 Speaker 1: Debbie from your experience. So what do you think are 429 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,910 Speaker 1: some misconceptions that come with being a content creator? 430 00:21:53,189 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 2: Misconceptions? 431 00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:59,550 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people like, like I said earlier, right? 432 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,540 Speaker 2: That they think that it's like a very, very straightforward job, 433 00:22:02,550 --> 00:22:04,599 Speaker 2: but to achieve consistency is not 434 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,810 Speaker 2: the easiest for you to, you know, think of constant content, 435 00:22:08,819 --> 00:22:12,869 Speaker 2: how to make it funnier or more engaging it, it's 436 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,020 Speaker 2: really a struggle. So sometimes your brain really goes like 437 00:22:16,030 --> 00:22:19,770 Speaker 2: dry and then you have to like chill out, find 438 00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 2: some inspiration. Another mistake is when influencers work with a 439 00:22:23,569 --> 00:22:27,089 Speaker 2: brand and they become too hard sell and then there's 440 00:22:27,099 --> 00:22:27,910 Speaker 2: that lack of creation. 441 00:22:27,994 --> 00:22:31,724 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's one of the biggest 442 00:22:31,734 --> 00:22:35,875 Speaker 2: mistake that content creator can make, especially in their early age, 443 00:22:36,135 --> 00:22:38,284 Speaker 1: which brings me to my next point. How do you 444 00:22:38,295 --> 00:22:43,073 Speaker 1: plan your finances, your financial goals, your future needs when 445 00:22:43,084 --> 00:22:46,795 Speaker 1: your income streams, of course, may or may not be 446 00:22:46,805 --> 00:22:49,925 Speaker 1: so consistent, especially with every month. If you work with 447 00:22:49,935 --> 00:22:52,344 Speaker 1: a big brand, then you know, of course, the income 448 00:22:52,354 --> 00:22:54,994 Speaker 1: is more and then some months dr periods, 449 00:22:55,354 --> 00:22:56,665 Speaker 2: that's why those who 450 00:22:57,109 --> 00:23:02,079 Speaker 2: pursue a full time content creation career are risk takers. 451 00:23:02,550 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: And for a lot of them, they are willing to 452 00:23:05,290 --> 00:23:09,510 Speaker 2: live with this, to live with the unknown because they 453 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,349 Speaker 2: aren't able to forecast their finances. But generally if one 454 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 2: takes the step to quit, whatever they are doing to 455 00:23:18,209 --> 00:23:20,859 Speaker 2: pursue a content creation career, 456 00:23:22,010 --> 00:23:26,310 Speaker 2: it's highly likely that they have plans and it's, it's 457 00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: very rare to see somebody quit whatever they are doing 458 00:23:30,050 --> 00:23:35,170 Speaker 2: school or work and not know what's coming forward. The 459 00:23:35,180 --> 00:23:38,510 Speaker 2: content creators who I've seen generally know that they are 460 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,530 Speaker 2: on the rise and this is a step worth taking. 461 00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 2: Aside from the norm 462 00:23:43,569 --> 00:23:45,839 Speaker 1: for the two of you, you have a little family, 463 00:23:45,849 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: you have a daughter. How do you plan your future, 464 00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: your finances? How do you deal with emergency costs for example, 465 00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:59,899 Speaker 2: investment building businesses, buying hospital insurance. It is super important 466 00:23:59,910 --> 00:24:00,938 Speaker 2: for real. Like 467 00:24:01,250 --> 00:24:05,290 Speaker 2: we experienced that like twice. Unfortunately, when staley was younger, 468 00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:08,270 Speaker 2: she was hospitalized and I realized, you know, how important 469 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 2: it actually is to have a good hospital for real. 470 00:24:12,750 --> 00:24:15,910 Speaker 1: Yeah, from your experience and how do you have a 471 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: fixed income stream because you 472 00:24:17,645 --> 00:24:19,655 Speaker 1: manage influence from 473 00:24:19,665 --> 00:24:22,935 Speaker 2: my company. I draw a salary and then through my 474 00:24:22,944 --> 00:24:26,294 Speaker 2: work on my branded content, there is another source of revenue. 475 00:24:26,464 --> 00:24:29,795 Speaker 2: It's two different job scripts and two different revenues. Um 476 00:24:29,805 --> 00:24:33,044 Speaker 2: So I play a job as a CEO in Titan 477 00:24:33,055 --> 00:24:36,525 Speaker 2: digital media. And at the same time, I'm also a 478 00:24:36,535 --> 00:24:40,484 Speaker 2: content creator, just like Debbie, she's the owner of her 479 00:24:40,494 --> 00:24:43,234 Speaker 2: brand and she's also a content creator. 480 00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:46,430 Speaker 1: So another point that you brought up earlier was that, 481 00:24:46,439 --> 00:24:50,670 Speaker 1: you know, if people don't rejuvenate and update and basically 482 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,958 Speaker 1: stay relevant, they lose out to younger or newer people 483 00:24:53,969 --> 00:24:56,630 Speaker 1: on the scene with more followers. What happens also if 484 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,369 Speaker 1: you age out, if you get too old, is that 485 00:24:59,380 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: a thing? No, it's not 486 00:25:01,449 --> 00:25:06,660 Speaker 2: anti aging as you grow older, it's in fact easier 487 00:25:07,089 --> 00:25:10,829 Speaker 2: to have your own niche and to have the credibility 488 00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:13,500 Speaker 2: and trust of your audience and brands, 489 00:25:13,719 --> 00:25:16,819 Speaker 2: those who have been in the industry for at least 490 00:25:16,859 --> 00:25:19,650 Speaker 2: 5 to 10 years. If I were a brand or 491 00:25:19,660 --> 00:25:23,349 Speaker 2: an agency, I will not be afraid that this person 492 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,609 Speaker 2: may get into the news for something that may affect 493 00:25:26,619 --> 00:25:30,069 Speaker 2: our campaign. They are a safer choice and a more 494 00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:32,930 Speaker 2: credible choice because of the audience and the work they 495 00:25:32,939 --> 00:25:35,390 Speaker 2: have done over the years that plays a big part 496 00:25:35,484 --> 00:25:38,694 Speaker 1: as well. So you're saying that influencers are content creators 497 00:25:38,704 --> 00:25:42,104 Speaker 1: who have been in this role for longer tend to 498 00:25:42,114 --> 00:25:46,415 Speaker 1: be more legitimate and it is easier to navigate the 499 00:25:46,425 --> 00:25:50,295 Speaker 1: space get more. Is that true? Being in the game 500 00:25:50,305 --> 00:25:53,214 Speaker 1: for longer is easier than those who are starting out. 501 00:25:53,265 --> 00:25:53,584 Speaker 1: It 502 00:25:53,594 --> 00:25:57,194 Speaker 2: is actually not easier than those who are starting out 503 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,069 Speaker 2: because those who are on the rise, it's very exciting. 504 00:26:01,459 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 2: The brands want to put their names on them. Everyone 505 00:26:04,890 --> 00:26:06,688 Speaker 2: wants a piece of them. But at the end of 506 00:26:06,699 --> 00:26:09,369 Speaker 2: the day, it comes down to different strategies as well 507 00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:13,270 Speaker 2: and understanding the trends of the market and with a 508 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,500 Speaker 2: more effective marketing strategy for a brand, you would want 509 00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:19,948 Speaker 2: a more diverse range of influences to work with. 510 00:26:20,729 --> 00:26:23,479 Speaker 1: Do you two of you see yourself doing this for 511 00:26:23,489 --> 00:26:24,250 Speaker 1: a long time 512 00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:27,810 Speaker 2: for me? Yes, I would love to do it forever. 513 00:26:27,859 --> 00:26:30,890 Speaker 2: It does not change over the years, the passion and 514 00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 2: the creativity in my blood to create videos and to 515 00:26:34,530 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 2: work with content creators. And at this age, I feel 516 00:26:38,890 --> 00:26:40,900 Speaker 2: like I can also be a mentor to a lot 517 00:26:40,910 --> 00:26:43,968 Speaker 2: of creators. I'm able to inspire them, I'm able to 518 00:26:43,979 --> 00:26:46,010 Speaker 2: guide them, I'm able to 519 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,609 Speaker 2: share with them the mistakes and the shortcomings that I 520 00:26:49,619 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 2: face throughout my last 10 years so that they can 521 00:26:52,530 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 2: reach my level in two years. And that, that's what 522 00:26:55,930 --> 00:26:57,709 Speaker 2: I aspire to be and that's what I hope I 523 00:26:57,719 --> 00:27:01,599 Speaker 2: can do for the influencers and the content creators around 524 00:27:01,609 --> 00:27:03,229 Speaker 2: me and in tighten digital media 525 00:27:03,469 --> 00:27:06,079 Speaker 2: because at the end of the day, I want to 526 00:27:06,089 --> 00:27:09,698 Speaker 2: see this greater economy grow. I do believe that in 527 00:27:09,709 --> 00:27:13,180 Speaker 2: the coming years in the future influencers, content creators will 528 00:27:13,189 --> 00:27:17,219 Speaker 2: be a real and stable job. The current generation aspires 529 00:27:17,229 --> 00:27:22,109 Speaker 2: to be youtubers aspire to be um tiktoker influencers. And 530 00:27:22,420 --> 00:27:24,849 Speaker 2: as they grow older, we will actually see it come 531 00:27:24,859 --> 00:27:26,619 Speaker 2: to fruition and it won't take long. 532 00:27:26,900 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: Well, how you think that you know, this creative space 533 00:27:29,650 --> 00:27:31,890 Speaker 1: will only grow and more people turn to. Yeah. And 534 00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:35,969 Speaker 2: and it's also my part to build this creative ecosystem 535 00:27:35,979 --> 00:27:37,958 Speaker 2: being in my position. Give 536 00:27:37,969 --> 00:27:41,069 Speaker 1: us your best financial advice for someone who is a 537 00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:43,729 Speaker 1: content creator or thinking of being a content creator 538 00:27:43,829 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: but is concerned about streams of income losing out to 539 00:27:47,890 --> 00:27:50,790 Speaker 1: other content creators. You know, the the issue of being 540 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,379 Speaker 1: competitive in this space and basically planning for their future. 541 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:55,930 Speaker 1: My 542 00:27:55,939 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 2: answer would be a bit biased because I am after 543 00:27:59,170 --> 00:28:04,319 Speaker 2: all a CEO of a talent agency. However, I really 544 00:28:04,329 --> 00:28:08,540 Speaker 2: encourage the younger influencers or those who are starting out 545 00:28:08,750 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 2: to look into working with an agency, not like selling 546 00:28:13,449 --> 00:28:16,129 Speaker 2: your soul to the agency, but just having a good 547 00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:19,180 Speaker 2: relationship with agencies because at the end of the day, 548 00:28:19,189 --> 00:28:22,140 Speaker 2: these agencies that will sell you, that eventually have a 549 00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:24,180 Speaker 2: certain comfort with working with you. 550 00:28:24,510 --> 00:28:27,739 Speaker 2: And in fact, they will help you plan your finances. 551 00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:30,709 Speaker 2: If you have discussions with them, they will be able 552 00:28:30,719 --> 00:28:32,930 Speaker 2: to share more of their plans. And at the end 553 00:28:32,939 --> 00:28:36,790 Speaker 2: of the day also invest your money and time wisely. 554 00:28:37,180 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: That 555 00:28:37,569 --> 00:28:39,729 Speaker 1: is the dream, right. I'm sure people 556 00:28:41,290 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: and look at your car as well and be like, hey, 557 00:28:43,770 --> 00:28:45,489 Speaker 1: I want to get there. I mean, he worked really, 558 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:45,699 Speaker 1: really 559 00:28:45,709 --> 00:28:48,780 Speaker 2: hard. Yeah, he deserves it. But a few more, I 560 00:28:48,810 --> 00:28:53,839 Speaker 1: have to ask him for his financial advice because everybody 561 00:28:53,849 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: would aspire to 562 00:28:54,890 --> 00:28:56,989 Speaker 2: my advice would be, don't ask me for advice. 563 00:28:57,750 --> 00:29:01,910 Speaker 1: Oh, but you know, this is a perfect example of 564 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,300 Speaker 1: someone who or rather an example of someone who has 565 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,219 Speaker 1: in the eyes of many young people out there, made 566 00:29:09,229 --> 00:29:13,619 Speaker 1: it managed to start his own business, manage other content creators. 567 00:29:13,630 --> 00:29:16,050 Speaker 1: And so, you know, definitely there will be questions on 568 00:29:16,060 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: how I can do that too, how a young or 569 00:29:19,010 --> 00:29:19,869 Speaker 1: someone else out 570 00:29:19,890 --> 00:29:22,869 Speaker 2: there passion, you must work hard, be consistent 571 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,170 Speaker 1: and how do you manage your finances, 572 00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 2: discipline and how to manage the finances? But should 573 00:29:31,010 --> 00:29:34,910 Speaker 1: I be buying my first supercar with? Is this something 574 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:35,329 Speaker 1: that you, 575 00:29:35,420 --> 00:29:38,089 Speaker 2: I mean, if it, if it makes you happy, if 576 00:29:38,099 --> 00:29:41,020 Speaker 2: it justifies the work you have done, if you know what, 577 00:29:41,030 --> 00:29:44,420 Speaker 2: what your priority go for it. I think in life, 578 00:29:44,430 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 2: whether you are a content creator or not, you should 579 00:29:46,410 --> 00:29:50,939 Speaker 2: just enjoy and be happy. And there's not always an 580 00:29:50,949 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 2: absolute need to follow the traditional way of thinking. Life 581 00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:59,339 Speaker 2: is already very difficult work can be tough going out 582 00:29:59,349 --> 00:30:02,780 Speaker 2: with your friends buying something that is a little bit 583 00:30:02,790 --> 00:30:03,670 Speaker 2: more expensive. 584 00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:06,510 Speaker 2: It's fun. And if it makes you happy, you know, 585 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:11,369 Speaker 2: if it makes everything more justifiable, then sure. OK. Takes 586 00:30:11,380 --> 00:30:11,729 Speaker 2: away the 587 00:30:11,739 --> 00:30:15,219 Speaker 1: misery. That's a wise word. So while many are drawn 588 00:30:15,229 --> 00:30:17,949 Speaker 1: to the flexibility of working at your own pace and 589 00:30:17,959 --> 00:30:20,670 Speaker 1: being your own boss and recognize that it is possible 590 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,699 Speaker 1: to monetize your hobby. It's really not as rosy as 591 00:30:24,709 --> 00:30:27,270 Speaker 1: it seems, but as we heard, it can be a 592 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: legitimate career and not just because Oxford Dictionary added the 593 00:30:31,569 --> 00:30:32,290 Speaker 1: word influencer 594 00:30:32,380 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: back in 2022. So how and Debbie thank you so 595 00:30:35,890 --> 00:30:38,270 Speaker 1: much for coming on the show and thank you to 596 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,609 Speaker 1: our listeners for tuning in. If you've enjoyed this episode 597 00:30:42,619 --> 00:30:46,609 Speaker 1: of Money Talks, do check out our other content on Spotify, 598 00:30:46,619 --> 00:30:49,910 Speaker 1: Apple or Google Podcasts. And we're also gonna be taking 599 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,209 Speaker 1: a short break, do follow us so that, you know, 600 00:30:52,219 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: when the new episodes drop. Now the team behind Money 601 00:30:55,569 --> 00:31:00,069 Speaker 1: Talks is Joanne Chan, Jacqueline Chan, Christina Robert and me, 602 00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:00,550 Speaker 1: Liz Neil.