WEBVTT - What’s the biodiversity COP all about? 0:00:02.990 --> 0:00:05.289 You're listening to AC N A podcast. 0:00:07.329 --> 0:00:12.350 Biodiversity. It's what keeps the planet in balance. In the 0:00:12.359 --> 0:00:16.329 simplest terms, it's the variety of plants and animals around 0:00:16.340 --> 0:00:21.569 the world systematically. Biodiversity keeps the climate in check. It 0:00:21.579 --> 0:00:26.169 makes sure ecosystems are functioning, gives us food security, economic 0:00:26.180 --> 0:00:29.389 benefits and supports human existence. 0:00:29.870 --> 0:00:32.889 So what of the overarching goals that we have to 0:00:32.900 --> 0:00:37.110 ensure biodiversity can be protected and prosper? There's a global 0:00:37.119 --> 0:00:40.150 summit for that this week. We're going to the heart 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:45.810 of Colombia to unpack cop 16. Hi and welcome to 0:00:45.819 --> 0:00:49.930 Climate Conversations. I'm Jack Boyd. Hello, leading Tan. How's it going? 0:00:50.430 --> 0:00:53.068 Hi, Jack, it's going well. I I, I'm kind of 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.700 laughing over what you said just now. There is a 0:00:55.709 --> 0:01:00.430 summit for that. There is an app for that. There's 0:01:00.439 --> 0:01:04.410 a reason to travel far distances to talk about that. 0:01:04.900 --> 0:01:08.839 Ever made it over to Colombia or South America in 0:01:08.849 --> 0:01:11.720 your time. Now, my closest I've been to is Cuba, 0:01:11.910 --> 0:01:15.889 I've been to Cuba, but that's not really. Yeah, that's 0:01:15.900 --> 0:01:18.129 the closest I've been to South America. So, and I 0:01:18.139 --> 0:01:21.870 think Cuba gets, gives me some, some street cred. So 0:01:21.879 --> 0:01:26.360 there you go. What about you, Jack have you been 0:01:26.370 --> 0:01:31.598 to Bogota Colombia or anywhere use your interviewing skills. This 0:01:31.610 --> 0:01:32.639 is a conversation. 0:01:33.860 --> 0:01:35.410 No, I have not been there. I have been to 0:01:35.419 --> 0:01:39.069 South America. I've been to Argentina Chile and Brazil a 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.639 couple of times on assignment for CN A. Maybe we'll 0:01:41.650 --> 0:01:44.769 go there together next year. Who knows? Cop 30 in Brazil? 0:01:45.919 --> 0:01:47.629 I hope so. Let's try and do that. That'll be 0:01:47.639 --> 0:01:48.620 so exciting. 0:01:52.839 --> 0:01:58.110 OK. Quiz time talking all things biodiversity. Li Ling. Can 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.819 you tell me the top three most diverse countries in 0:02:02.830 --> 0:02:07.220 the world? Now, this is based on an index made 0:02:07.230 --> 0:02:13.380 by Mounga Bay. It's basically using groups of animals. So, amphibians, birds, fish, mammals, 0:02:13.389 --> 0:02:16.899 reptiles and then plants as well. 0:02:17.679 --> 0:02:28.889 Ok. So basically everything, not everything, not everything. There's other things, animals, fish, mammals, reptiles, plants, amphibians, birds, 0:02:28.899 --> 0:02:32.660 so not insects, correct. There are some other asterisks as well, 0:02:33.089 --> 0:02:37.220 not all types of plants either, but it doesn't include 0:02:37.809 --> 0:02:45.309 invertebrates, fungi, micro organisms and a number of other types. 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.720 This just gives you an idea of how complex biodiversity. 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.149 All right, I'm gonna have to do an educated guess. I, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.750 I feel like I kinda can roughly identify which countries, 0:02:56.758 --> 0:02:58.190 but let me chew on it for a little bit. 0:02:58.350 --> 0:02:59.910 Sounds good answers at the end. 0:03:02.258 --> 0:03:05.750 OK. News time, Li Ling take us through some stories 0:03:05.758 --> 0:03:06.679 that you found this week. 0:03:07.809 --> 0:03:12.190 So in the vein of being completely positive as we 0:03:12.199 --> 0:03:15.419 have been over the past two weeks, we have been 0:03:15.839 --> 0:03:17.839 do you know the optimism in my voice? I can 0:03:18.029 --> 0:03:20.770 hear it. I'm going to start with some good news 0:03:20.779 --> 0:03:24.649 this week. So the Philippines has seen clean energy start 0:03:24.758 --> 0:03:29.729 ups jump a staggering six fold since 2020. And that's 0:03:29.740 --> 0:03:32.399 according to a recent report from New Energy nexus and 0:03:32.410 --> 0:03:35.830 international Clean Energy Nonprofit. So currently 0:03:35.940 --> 0:03:38.750 the country has about 91 start ups in the clean 0:03:38.759 --> 0:03:42.699 energy and climate space and that's compared with 15, just 0:03:42.710 --> 0:03:45.770 four years ago. So that's six times as many, just 0:03:45.779 --> 0:03:49.520 about slightly more than a third are in Metropolitan Manila. 0:03:49.729 --> 0:03:52.610 And the rest are more or less split between Calabar 0:03:52.619 --> 0:03:57.089 Zone and northern Mindanao in the south. Now nearly half 0:03:57.100 --> 0:03:59.520 are in renewable energy and the rest range from clean 0:03:59.529 --> 0:04:04.119 transportation to waste management. But and there's always a but right, 0:04:04.380 --> 0:04:07.380 but the study also pointed out that the support system 0:04:07.389 --> 0:04:10.520 for these entrepreneurs need to catch up. So the start 0:04:10.529 --> 0:04:14.289 up space is still lacking, you know, needed and sufficient 0:04:14.300 --> 0:04:19.010 access to networks to funding to testing facilities as well 0:04:19.019 --> 0:04:22.179 as training. And without this experts are saying the growth 0:04:22.190 --> 0:04:25.309 could lose momentum. For example, the space could do with 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.558 more support from the public sector by way of policies 0:04:28.665 --> 0:04:32.945 and also from the private sector through investments, for instance. Yeah, 0:04:32.955 --> 0:04:35.575 I read the story um on eco business in the 0:04:35.585 --> 0:04:37.615 last few days, I think it's really cool to see 0:04:37.626 --> 0:04:40.455 that there are so many start ups happening in that 0:04:40.466 --> 0:04:44.626 space and not all of them are in Manila. So 0:04:44.665 --> 0:04:48.195 interesting trend and yeah, hopefully the money can follow. Yeah, 0:04:48.205 --> 0:04:50.865 I think it also really kind of underscores some of 0:04:50.876 --> 0:04:52.846 the the complexities and actually deliver 0:04:53.022 --> 0:04:55.911 on a lot of these support for renewable energy, right? 0:04:55.921 --> 0:04:58.671 Because a lot of it requires the system in place, 0:04:58.682 --> 0:05:02.301 the networks in place to actually, you know, support these 0:05:02.312 --> 0:05:05.471 this emerging sector and very often that there just aren't 0:05:05.481 --> 0:05:09.570 enough of it. But Filipinos full of good ideas. Always 0:05:09.821 --> 0:05:13.070 next up. Also good news from the climate perspective. Great 0:05:13.082 --> 0:05:16.411 Britain has shut down its last coal plant. 0:05:20.178 --> 0:05:24.329 Um So that's, that was a bit. We were activist there. Yeah. Ok. 0:05:24.339 --> 0:05:27.350 So no woohoo, but it took it as a win 0:05:27.359 --> 0:05:31.649 for the climate fight. So the Ratcliffe on saw plant 0:05:31.660 --> 0:05:36.910 in Central England closed on September 30th ending 100 and 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.540 42 years of coal fired electricity 0:05:39.923 --> 0:05:44.263 nation where the industrial revolution began coal powered steam engines 0:05:44.291 --> 0:05:46.863 that demand for metals and minerals and that gave rise 0:05:46.872 --> 0:05:49.342 to mighty industries for those of you who need a 0:05:49.351 --> 0:05:52.882 little bit of the history lesson. So the UK was 0:05:52.892 --> 0:05:54.872 the first country to actually lock in a deadline to 0:05:54.882 --> 0:05:58.453 phase out coal power by 2025. It's part of a 0:05:58.463 --> 0:06:01.263 bolder plan to transition the country to renewable 0:06:01.365 --> 0:06:05.226 power by 2030 it is among the first countries in 0:06:05.235 --> 0:06:09.085 the world to phase out coal. So this made me 0:06:09.096 --> 0:06:12.226 wonder how many active coal plants are left in the world. Jack, 0:06:12.235 --> 0:06:15.585 can you make a guess wild guess how many active 0:06:15.596 --> 0:06:21.286 coal plants roughly, I mean, some are shutting down but 0:06:21.295 --> 0:06:22.665 not that many. I think 0:06:23.130 --> 0:06:25.700 that the UK would be a rare story of a 0:06:25.709 --> 0:06:28.730 country really cutting out all of its coal. China still 0:06:28.738 --> 0:06:33.940 has new coal. Indonesia has quite a lot still going on. 0:06:34.119 --> 0:06:39.268 I've got no idea. Plants 1000 not quite as of July. 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:44.350 This year, there were more than 2400 active operating coal plants. 0:06:44.359 --> 0:06:47.359 And that's according to statistic. But you know, the good 0:06:47.369 --> 0:06:47.950 news is it's 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.890 been decreasing since 2021 as countries face it out. And 0:06:51.899 --> 0:06:54.480 you mentioned China, I think China accounts for nearly half 0:06:54.488 --> 0:06:57.368 of that figure. The writing is on the wall for coal, 0:06:57.380 --> 0:07:01.070 that's for sure. It is um on the industry. Yeah, 0:07:01.079 --> 0:07:04.769 the economic fundamentals are just not there anymore. But yeah, 0:07:04.779 --> 0:07:07.730 countries like China still need it to power their economy. 0:07:07.738 --> 0:07:10.380 So yeah, it'll take a few decades. All right, it's 0:07:10.390 --> 0:07:12.820 time for our main story this week. 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.329 We tend to talk about one of the major cops 0:07:18.339 --> 0:07:21.589 quite often the conference of the parties. That's what cops 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:25.459 stands for, that focuses on climate change that has delivered 0:07:25.470 --> 0:07:29.750 us the Kyoto Protocol, the Paris Agreement. There's another cop 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.730 that collectively I feel gets a little bit overlooked outside 0:07:33.739 --> 0:07:36.440 of those who are intimately following the proceedings who are 0:07:36.450 --> 0:07:39.829 involved with it. That is the cop on biodiversity 0:07:40.179 --> 0:07:43.079 and it's happening soon in just over a week, cop 0:07:43.089 --> 0:07:47.200 16 is being hosted in the city of Cali in Colombia. 0:07:47.679 --> 0:07:50.799 Plenty of heads of state ministers from across the world 0:07:50.929 --> 0:07:52.760 traveling there to attend 0:07:53.500 --> 0:07:56.920 now while it's happening in South America. What's discussed there 0:07:56.929 --> 0:08:00.279 actually matters for the whole world and there's plenty on 0:08:00.290 --> 0:08:04.010 the table. In short, there are lots of concerns about 0:08:04.019 --> 0:08:09.200 a biodiversity crisis happening across the globe. One key goal 0:08:09.209 --> 0:08:15.160 is advancing the Kunming Montreal Global Biodiversity framework. 0:08:15.429 --> 0:08:18.489 Now this is a big deal. It's kind of compared 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.279 to the Paris Agreement in terms of its scope. Le 0:08:21.410 --> 0:08:23.850 you want to give us the low down on exactly 0:08:23.859 --> 0:08:28.209 what that mouthful of a framework is. I thought you'd 0:08:28.220 --> 0:08:33.559 never ask. So the Kunming Montreal Global Biodiversity framework is 0:08:33.570 --> 0:08:37.439 a landmark agreement reached by 100 and 96 countries back 0:08:37.450 --> 0:08:41.969 in 2022 at cop 15, it's been called the 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.549 Agreement for Nature and its purpose is to stop and 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:51.400 reverse biodiversity loss. So it's a huge huge deal. Now, 0:08:51.409 --> 0:08:54.109 it has four key goals to guide global efforts to 0:08:54.119 --> 0:08:57.349 conserve biodiversity by 2050. 0:08:57.630 --> 0:09:02.569 And they include ways to protect and expand natural ecosystems 0:09:02.580 --> 0:09:06.968 and stop species extinction caused by us humans. And it 0:09:06.979 --> 0:09:10.159 wants to do this by reducing the risk of extinction 0:09:10.169 --> 0:09:14.010 by tenfold. And that's just the first of the four goals. 0:09:14.020 --> 0:09:17.729 The others involve the sustainable use of biodiversity and natural 0:09:17.739 --> 0:09:22.229 resources and the fair sharing and usage of genetic resources. 0:09:22.239 --> 0:09:23.250 For example, when it comes to 0:09:23.359 --> 0:09:27.179 indigenous people and local communities such as the use of 0:09:27.190 --> 0:09:32.319 intellectual property laws to protect traditional knowledge around say for instance, 0:09:32.330 --> 0:09:35.799 the medicinal use of plants found in local communities. Right? 0:09:35.809 --> 0:09:39.289 It's interesting. Yeah. Now there are also goals around scientific 0:09:39.299 --> 0:09:44.349 knowledge sharing and technology transfers and especially around financing particularly 0:09:44.359 --> 0:09:48.750 for developing countries and small island developing states, right? And 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:48.859 they 0:09:49.119 --> 0:09:51.728 a checklist of things that they want to accomplish, right? 0:09:51.739 --> 0:09:54.968 A lot of targets. You want to tell us all 0:09:54.979 --> 0:09:57.189 of the targets. No, I do not. I won't go 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.359 through all the 23 but I will tell you some 0:09:59.369 --> 0:10:01.070 of the key targets and one of them is to 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:06.390 bring the loss of areas with high concentrated biodiversity to zero. 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.950 So bring that loss to zero and also restore what's 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.650 already been degraded. So there are also rules to conserve 0:10:12.659 --> 0:10:14.710 and manage land and water bodies 0:10:14.820 --> 0:10:19.150 as well as target invasive species and also reduce pollution. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.880 So to do all this, you know, money is a 0:10:21.890 --> 0:10:24.440 big factor. So one of the major targets is to 0:10:24.450 --> 0:10:28.959 mobilize at least $200 billion a year from public and 0:10:28.969 --> 0:10:33.979 private sources by 2030. Now, what's really important Jack is 0:10:33.989 --> 0:10:36.270 that and you know this as well as you know, 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.030 a lot of us who watch this biodiversity space is 0:10:39.039 --> 0:10:40.440 that this agreement, 0:10:40.549 --> 0:10:45.489 this framework is quite unprecedented and it comes as we 0:10:45.500 --> 0:10:50.190 are undergoing an extinction event right now due to human activities, right, 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:54.830 a skill of biodiversity loss known as the Holocene extinction, 0:10:55.119 --> 0:10:58.549 which is the sixth mass extinction event in the history 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.369 of the earth. And it's happening right now. It is 0:11:02.380 --> 0:11:04.640 thought you were bringing only good news this week and 0:11:04.650 --> 0:11:07.159 you just brought up the extinction. I went back to 0:11:07.169 --> 0:11:08.520 factory settings, 0:11:09.409 --> 0:11:14.210 a little reset button has been pressed, but that is 0:11:14.219 --> 0:11:16.950 a great introduction to what we're talking about here. It 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.309 is a globally significant event for the future of the planet. 0:11:20.969 --> 0:11:25.319 These discussions really matter. And I think what's also fascinating 0:11:25.330 --> 0:11:29.098 about this cop is the location and Colombia is one 0:11:29.109 --> 0:11:32.650 of the most dangerous places in the world for environmental 0:11:32.659 --> 0:11:35.770 defenders and journalists, the very people who are standing up 0:11:35.780 --> 0:11:40.270 for biodiversity or informing our knowledge of what's going on. 0:11:40.479 --> 0:11:44.869 So lots of intersecting interests that happen in a place 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:45.739 like Colombia. 0:11:46.260 --> 0:11:49.770 So let's explore that more. We're joined now by journalist 0:11:49.780 --> 0:11:54.880 Oliver Griffin from Thomson Reuters. He reports on environmental and 0:11:54.890 --> 0:11:59.119 energy issues from his HQ in Bogota Colombia. 0:12:01.299 --> 0:12:04.650 Thank you for having me now. It's been a while 0:12:04.659 --> 0:12:08.700 since the biodiversity cop landed in South America. I'm sure 0:12:08.710 --> 0:12:10.869 you weren't there the last time it was in Brazil 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.690 about 20 years ago. But what does it mean actually 0:12:13.700 --> 0:12:18.799 to have such significant talks on the continent coming up? 0:12:19.909 --> 0:12:22.609 No, I definitely wasn't there last time. But you know, 0:12:22.619 --> 0:12:25.950 it's I wouldn't say that I could necessarily speak for 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.770 the continent. But it's clearly a huge deal for Colombia 0:12:29.780 --> 0:12:34.049 and Cali. It's been quite noticeable, the excitement being felt 0:12:34.059 --> 0:12:37.049 across the country and also, especially by the team in 0:12:37.059 --> 0:12:38.960 the Environment Ministry in a lot of that kind of 0:12:38.969 --> 0:12:41.539 press conferences, you can really tell they're already gearing up 0:12:41.549 --> 0:12:43.869 for it and they want it to be a huge success. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.478 We're expecting scores of government delegations, around a dozen heads 0:12:47.489 --> 0:12:49.809 of state and government leaders come enjoying the 0:12:49.890 --> 0:12:53.190 proceedings in cop 16. So it's definitely something that they've 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:54.599 put a lot of work into. And there's a lot 0:12:54.609 --> 0:12:57.270 of excitement about what that might mean for the country 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.549 more broadly in terms of the top environmental issues of 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:01.049 the day, 0:13:01.539 --> 0:13:01.819 you 0:13:01.830 --> 0:13:06.080 cover Colombia and the broader South American region. And, and 0:13:06.090 --> 0:13:08.579 this is a region that's a really critical hotspot for 0:13:08.590 --> 0:13:14.020 many of the issues around biodiversity and biodiversity preservation. Can 0:13:14.030 --> 0:13:16.289 you talk us through what this part of the world 0:13:16.299 --> 0:13:19.659 is like? In terms of environmental reporting? 0:13:19.869 --> 0:13:23.010 I think, first and foremost, there's lots of really good 0:13:23.020 --> 0:13:25.530 environmental reports in the region. There's a lot of very 0:13:25.539 --> 0:13:30.468 talented um Colombian reporters and international reporters covering things from 0:13:30.479 --> 0:13:34.780 say across, let's call it the Spanish fringe of the Amazon, 0:13:34.789 --> 0:13:37.820 the part of the northern bit of the rain forest, 0:13:37.830 --> 0:13:40.530 which is predominantly Spanish, speaking, a lot of the issues 0:13:40.539 --> 0:13:43.109 to do with most recently are ones that you see 0:13:43.229 --> 0:13:45.609 they come out of Brazil to do with issues, the 0:13:45.619 --> 0:13:49.409 drought issues with forest fires, the usual kind of stuff. 0:13:49.419 --> 0:13:49.770 But I think 0:13:49.940 --> 0:13:52.369 as well, what a lot of people can forget is 0:13:52.380 --> 0:13:55.750 that unlike say Brazil, where obviously the vast majority of 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.650 the Amazon is, we also have a lot of kind 0:13:58.659 --> 0:14:03.070 of different ecosystems to be reporting on across say the 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.679 whole range of different altitudes that are in countries like 0:14:06.690 --> 0:14:11.780 Colombia and Ecuador, you know, Bogota, is it 2800 m, 0:14:11.789 --> 0:14:15.119 I think, which obviously means that's a starkly different environment 0:14:15.130 --> 0:14:18.330 to what you might see in the rainforest or uh 0:14:18.340 --> 0:14:19.750 in the Ku region. 0:14:20.020 --> 0:14:22.179 So there's a lot of different kind of topics to 0:14:22.190 --> 0:14:25.929 be covering in the environment. And I think another issue 0:14:25.940 --> 0:14:28.320 that we can't really forget is that there are certainly 0:14:28.330 --> 0:14:32.099 dangerous to environmental reporting in this kind of region. Not 0:14:32.109 --> 0:14:34.359 that I feel that I've suffered from that myself, but 0:14:34.369 --> 0:14:37.440 we can't forget in neighboring Brazil, the murder of Dom 0:14:37.450 --> 0:14:40.929 Phipps and Bruno Pereira in 2022. So it's certainly not 0:14:40.940 --> 0:14:41.989 that as risks either. Uh 0:14:42.010 --> 0:14:43.159 You mentioned 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:48.450 the aspects of safety for journalists and we often talk 0:14:48.460 --> 0:14:52.809 about environmental defenders in this region. Many threats being faced 0:14:52.820 --> 0:14:55.239 by people who are standing on the front line for 0:14:55.250 --> 0:14:57.580 their community or and for biodiversity. 0:14:58.419 --> 0:15:03.099 Do you think that Cop 16 will illuminate that issue, 0:15:03.109 --> 0:15:06.280 the level of threats being faced by environmental defenders? 0:15:06.289 --> 0:15:09.659 I think there is a hope that Cop 16 will 0:15:09.669 --> 0:15:12.809 address that issue I think Colombia in particular is a 0:15:12.820 --> 0:15:16.820 very interesting country to hold the cop. So soon after 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.859 the global witness report came out earlier this year, Colombia 0:15:19.869 --> 0:15:20.859 was once again 0:15:20.955 --> 0:15:24.994 going to global witness the world's most dangerous country for environmentalists. 0:15:25.005 --> 0:15:27.304 It's not the first time or even the second time. 0:15:27.315 --> 0:15:28.765 I think in the five years that I've been here, 0:15:28.775 --> 0:15:31.455 that has been the case in Latin America in particular, 0:15:31.465 --> 0:15:33.684 going back to what does this mean for the continent? 0:15:33.695 --> 0:15:36.924 You know, Latin America is far and away the leader 0:15:36.934 --> 0:15:40.994 in terms of how environmentalists are treated poorly and killed 0:15:41.005 --> 0:15:42.854 for their work. We've done a lot of stories on 0:15:42.864 --> 0:15:43.445 this 0:15:43.710 --> 0:15:46.979 from Reuters, Bogota. Um I think there are definitely activists 0:15:46.989 --> 0:15:49.919 that hope that this is their opportunity to speak up 0:15:49.929 --> 0:15:52.809 and get an audience for the issues that they really face. 0:15:52.820 --> 0:15:55.609 It's something we continue to see this year. It's a 0:15:55.619 --> 0:15:59.419 real issue that environment continue to face, especially in Colombia, 0:15:59.429 --> 0:16:02.570 but also obviously in, in those other neighboring countries as well. 0:16:02.739 --> 0:16:05.669 I think it will be interesting to see if cop 0:16:05.679 --> 0:16:06.369 succeeded to 0:16:06.465 --> 0:16:09.104 shine a light on that. It's one thing I think 0:16:09.114 --> 0:16:11.924 sometimes it's easy to forget the humans that are on 0:16:11.934 --> 0:16:15.744 the front lines of conservation. And I think that hopefully 0:16:15.755 --> 0:16:18.354 this could be an opportunity for them to put forth 0:16:18.364 --> 0:16:21.755 their position and, and get some attention for what they're 0:16:21.765 --> 0:16:23.664 trying to draw attention to 0:16:23.984 --> 0:16:27.145 what is the source of the danger for these environmental 0:16:27.155 --> 0:16:29.125 defenders in Colombia, specifically, 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:36.419 according to the government and security sources, most of the 0:16:36.429 --> 0:16:40.640 danger comes from illegal armed groups operating in the country 0:16:40.650 --> 0:16:44.320 and patrol traffickers that made me feel that their activities 0:16:44.330 --> 0:16:48.690 particularly in gold mining or tree felling are being threatened 0:16:48.700 --> 0:16:52.539 by people that are resisting those activities or getting in 0:16:52.549 --> 0:16:54.760 the way of their own economic gain. 0:16:55.015 --> 0:16:56.955 They would be the chief ones I think in our 0:16:56.966 --> 0:17:01.046 story in 2021 that was essentially what our sources told 0:17:01.056 --> 0:17:04.076 us was the case and the people most likely behind 0:17:04.086 --> 0:17:07.775 environmentalist killings in the country. Obviously, Colombia reached a peace 0:17:07.786 --> 0:17:11.926 agreement with the FARC in 2016. But that is by 0:17:11.936 --> 0:17:14.956 no means the end of the country's internal arm conflict, 0:17:15.105 --> 0:17:17.855 there are still other groups active in the country. And 0:17:17.865 --> 0:17:20.145 so those are the people that security saw 0:17:20.491 --> 0:17:23.531 and other members of the government would say are threatening 0:17:23.541 --> 0:17:27.251 particularly environments like this and environmentalists throughout the country. 0:17:27.552 --> 0:17:31.061 You know, you, you really rarely think about environmental work 0:17:31.071 --> 0:17:34.712 being something that involves a conflict zone. So this is 0:17:34.722 --> 0:17:38.421 really illuminating for us to hear. Yeah, super interesting part 0:17:38.432 --> 0:17:41.332 of the world to be doing environmental reporting. Let's turn 0:17:41.342 --> 0:17:44.031 to cop 16 a little bit. What are you going 0:17:44.041 --> 0:17:45.281 to be looking out for 0:17:45.500 --> 0:17:47.849 and how do you think it might impact some of 0:17:47.859 --> 0:17:50.439 the reporting that you and your team are doing regularly? Yeah. 0:17:50.449 --> 0:17:53.319 So as someone that reports on uh kind of twin 0:17:53.329 --> 0:17:56.119 bits of energy and the environment and we often, you know, 0:17:56.250 --> 0:18:00.069 cover cross overs of those two different bits. So for example, 0:18:00.079 --> 0:18:02.839 we did a story on oil theft and how that 0:18:02.849 --> 0:18:06.709 affects the environment and the ecosystems in the Colombian Pacific Jungle. 0:18:06.839 --> 0:18:09.780 I'm also gonna be looking for synergies between the climate 0:18:09.790 --> 0:18:12.280 cop made famous by the parrot Climates Agreement 0:18:12.609 --> 0:18:15.760 and also this biodiversity c and we've spoken to a 0:18:15.770 --> 0:18:21.109 few people that have really hammered home, how without protecting nature? 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.750 These experts say we can't necessarily guarantee or we won't 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.719 guarantee success in dealing with the climate challenges either. So 0:18:27.729 --> 0:18:31.270 it's gonna be really interesting for me personally, how those 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:32.229 two could potentially work, 0:18:32.699 --> 0:18:36.319 especially with the next climate cop coming up in around, 0:18:36.329 --> 0:18:38.670 I think the end of the month and then obviously 0:18:38.719 --> 0:18:40.719 COP 30 which is the one that people are already 0:18:40.729 --> 0:18:42.159 talking about for next 0:18:42.170 --> 0:18:42.500 year. 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.500 A lot of the issues around biodiversity. Now how it's 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.760 about trying to manage and maintain or restore species loss? 0:18:49.890 --> 0:18:51.920 Now you where you are, 0:18:52.260 --> 0:18:55.859 you kind of get a first hand witness account of 0:18:55.869 --> 0:18:59.589 the impact that human activity is having on the environment 0:18:59.599 --> 0:19:02.319 and on biodiversity. What for you has been the most 0:19:02.329 --> 0:19:05.949 gutting thing that you have witnessed or reported on out 0:19:05.959 --> 0:19:06.349 of there? 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.760 I think one of the most kind of surprising things 0:19:09.770 --> 0:19:11.359 I've ever seen is 0:19:11.449 --> 0:19:16.780 in person was deforestation and burning trees had been felled 0:19:17.079 --> 0:19:20.290 in Kakita around. I think that was 2021 when we 0:19:20.300 --> 0:19:23.910 went down to look at how illegal roads impact the 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:27.339 Amazon and what they call the agricultural frontier. So that's 0:19:27.349 --> 0:19:29.819 where people are moving into the rainforest from the Colombian 0:19:29.829 --> 0:19:30.550 side of things. 0:19:30.819 --> 0:19:34.369 And it's one thing to see that on TV. And 0:19:34.380 --> 0:19:36.679 then to see photos of it and that's obviously devastating. 0:19:36.839 --> 0:19:39.439 I think it's another thing entirely to have your eyes 0:19:39.449 --> 0:19:42.520 sting from the smoke and be able to smell that 0:19:42.530 --> 0:19:45.560 kind of burning and see flames spring up from the 0:19:45.569 --> 0:19:47.919 side of a road that your guide is telling you 0:19:47.930 --> 0:19:50.969 wasn't even there until maybe a few weeks ago, months ago. 0:19:51.130 --> 0:19:56.339 So I think seeing, I guess deforestation in real time 0:19:56.369 --> 0:19:58.640 was absolutely the most surprising thing. 0:19:58.939 --> 0:20:00.010 Um, I say 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:00.929 it's 0:20:00.939 --> 0:20:04.869 a stark contrast, isn't it? Just, you talked about being surprised. 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:06.439 I lived in California for a while and there were 0:20:06.449 --> 0:20:09.159 a lot of wildfires there and some of them came 0:20:09.170 --> 0:20:12.140 so close to the highways, you'd be just driving down 0:20:12.150 --> 0:20:14.959 the highway and then there's right next to you. It's 0:20:14.969 --> 0:20:18.060 like this massive amount of smoke and fire happening, but 0:20:18.069 --> 0:20:21.579 everything else is just going on, traffic is moving. It's 0:20:21.589 --> 0:20:21.839 just 0:20:22.329 --> 0:20:25.270 so bizarre. There's this huge dissonance when it comes to 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:26.938 that kind of thing and it's probably a fraction of 0:20:26.949 --> 0:20:29.469 what you were experiencing when you saw all that unfolding 0:20:29.650 --> 0:20:31.349 right there. But I can't imagine it 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:36.250 was very weird having juxtaposed by having seen. I don't 0:20:36.260 --> 0:20:38.599 know which species but a monkey the first time I'd 0:20:38.609 --> 0:20:42.129 ever seen a monkey in the wild climbing through trees 0:20:42.494 --> 0:20:45.604 a few short hours, either early or later, I can't 0:20:45.614 --> 0:20:49.285 remember the exact chronology or this beautiful kind of toucan. 0:20:49.314 --> 0:20:52.514 And after seeing that and then being so close to 0:20:52.525 --> 0:20:56.055 nature in, in positive ways and then seeing nature impacted 0:20:56.064 --> 0:20:58.813 so negatively so soon afterwards. It was, yeah, it was 0:20:58.824 --> 0:21:02.535 very jarring to be in those two situations so close together. 0:21:03.140 --> 0:21:07.708 We've spoken in recent weeks about the extent of fires 0:21:07.719 --> 0:21:11.250 across South America. Has that been something that you've had 0:21:11.260 --> 0:21:14.069 to observe or report about? Or 0:21:14.310 --> 0:21:16.929 is it something that will be in the minds of 0:21:16.939 --> 0:21:21.639 those negotiating at COP 16 as well? Presumably if you've 60% 0:21:21.650 --> 0:21:23.989 of the continent covered in smoke, I think we were 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:25.150 talking about a few weeks ago. 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:28.339 Yeah, obviously there's a huge story then Colombia has not 0:21:28.349 --> 0:21:31.369 been without its own share of fires either recently or 0:21:31.380 --> 0:21:35.250 or earlier in the year. I think the underlying story 0:21:35.260 --> 0:21:37.349 about that is around the scarce 0:21:37.449 --> 0:21:40.750 rainfall that we've seen, particularly in, say Colombia and equi 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.119 in Bogota, a city that when I moved to it 0:21:44.130 --> 0:21:46.930 in 2019 was famous for being wet, but I was 0:21:46.939 --> 0:21:49.889 advised to bring an umbrella waterproof, which is not your 0:21:49.900 --> 0:21:52.839 usual kit, which you recommend when you move to South America, right? 0:21:52.849 --> 0:21:55.339 Especially from the UK. You know, it's not normal that 0:21:55.349 --> 0:21:58.169 someone is advising you when you're moving from uh brit 0:21:58.209 --> 0:22:00.229 to bring wet, wet weather clothes, 0:22:00.949 --> 0:22:03.439 but that was the case. And this year um Bogota 0:22:03.449 --> 0:22:07.219 has had water rationing. Ecuador has had to implement a 0:22:07.229 --> 0:22:10.469 series of power cuts to ration water in their own 0:22:10.479 --> 0:22:12.899 kind of, you know, for use in their own hydroelectric dams. 0:22:13.089 --> 0:22:16.589 And these are traditionally very wet places and people, experts 0:22:16.599 --> 0:22:18.989 and scientists who we've spoken to have very put squarely 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:22.079