Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast.
Speaker 1: Biodiversity. It's what keeps the planet in balance. In the
Speaker 1: simplest terms, it's the variety of plants and animals around
Speaker 1: the world systematically. Biodiversity keeps the climate in check. It
Speaker 1: makes sure ecosystems are functioning, gives us food security, economic
Speaker 1: benefits and supports human existence.
Speaker 1: So what of the overarching goals that we have to
Speaker 1: ensure biodiversity can be protected and prosper? There's a global
Speaker 1: summit for that this week. We're going to the heart
Speaker 1: of Colombia to unpack cop 16. Hi and welcome to
Speaker 1: Climate Conversations. I'm Jack Boyd. Hello, leading Tan. How's it going?
Speaker 1: Hi, Jack, it's going well. I I, I'm kind of
Speaker 1: laughing over what you said just now. There is a
Speaker 1: summit for that. There is an app for that. There's
Speaker 1: a reason to travel far distances to talk about that.
Speaker 1: Ever made it over to Colombia or South America in
Speaker 1: your time. Now, my closest I've been to is Cuba,
Speaker 1: I've been to Cuba, but that's not really. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the closest I've been to South America. So, and I
Speaker 1: think Cuba gets, gives me some, some street cred. So
Speaker 1: there you go. What about you, Jack have you been
Speaker 1: to Bogota Colombia or anywhere use your interviewing skills. This
Speaker 1: is a conversation.
Speaker 1: No, I have not been there. I have been to
Speaker 1: South America. I've been to Argentina Chile and Brazil a
Speaker 1: couple of times on assignment for CN A. Maybe we'll
Speaker 1: go there together next year. Who knows? Cop 30 in Brazil?
Speaker 1: I hope so. Let's try and do that. That'll be
Speaker 1: so exciting.
Speaker 1: OK. Quiz time talking all things biodiversity. Li Ling. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me the top three most diverse countries in
Speaker 1: the world? Now, this is based on an index made
Speaker 1: by Mounga Bay. It's basically using groups of animals. So, amphibians, birds, fish, mammals,
Speaker 1: reptiles and then plants as well.
Speaker 1: Ok. So basically everything, not everything, not everything. There's other things, animals, fish, mammals, reptiles, plants, amphibians, birds,
Speaker 1: so not insects, correct. There are some other asterisks as well,
Speaker 1: not all types of plants either, but it doesn't include
Speaker 1: invertebrates, fungi, micro organisms and a number of other types.
Speaker 1: This just gives you an idea of how complex biodiversity.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna have to do an educated guess. I,
Speaker 1: I feel like I kinda can roughly identify which countries,
Speaker 1: but let me chew on it for a little bit.
Speaker 1: Sounds good answers at the end.
Speaker 1: OK. News time, Li Ling take us through some stories
Speaker 1: that you found this week.
Speaker 1: So in the vein of being completely positive as we
Speaker 1: have been over the past two weeks, we have been
Speaker 1: do you know the optimism in my voice? I can
Speaker 1: hear it. I'm going to start with some good news
Speaker 1: this week. So the Philippines has seen clean energy start
Speaker 1: ups jump a staggering six fold since 2020. And that's
Speaker 1: according to a recent report from New Energy nexus and
Speaker 1: international Clean Energy Nonprofit. So currently
Speaker 1: the country has about 91 start ups in the clean
Speaker 1: energy and climate space and that's compared with 15, just
Speaker 1: four years ago. So that's six times as many, just
Speaker 1: about slightly more than a third are in Metropolitan Manila.
Speaker 1: And the rest are more or less split between Calabar
Speaker 1: Zone and northern Mindanao in the south. Now nearly half
Speaker 1: are in renewable energy and the rest range from clean
Speaker 1: transportation to waste management. But and there's always a but right,
Speaker 1: but the study also pointed out that the support system
Speaker 1: for these entrepreneurs need to catch up. So the start
Speaker 1: up space is still lacking, you know, needed and sufficient
Speaker 1: access to networks to funding to testing facilities as well
Speaker 1: as training. And without this experts are saying the growth
Speaker 1: could lose momentum. For example, the space could do with
Speaker 1: more support from the public sector by way of policies
Speaker 1: and also from the private sector through investments, for instance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I read the story um on eco business in the
Speaker 1: last few days, I think it's really cool to see
Speaker 1: that there are so many start ups happening in that
Speaker 1: space and not all of them are in Manila. So
Speaker 1: interesting trend and yeah, hopefully the money can follow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it also really kind of underscores some of
Speaker 1: the the complexities and actually deliver
Speaker 1: on a lot of these support for renewable energy, right?
Speaker 1: Because a lot of it requires the system in place,
Speaker 1: the networks in place to actually, you know, support these
Speaker 1: this emerging sector and very often that there just aren't
Speaker 1: enough of it. But Filipinos full of good ideas. Always
Speaker 1: next up. Also good news from the climate perspective. Great
Speaker 1: Britain has shut down its last coal plant.
Speaker 1: Um So that's, that was a bit. We were activist there. Yeah. Ok.
Speaker 1: So no woohoo, but it took it as a win
Speaker 1: for the climate fight. So the Ratcliffe on saw plant
Speaker 1: in Central England closed on September 30th ending 100 and
Speaker 1: 42 years of coal fired electricity
Speaker 1: nation where the industrial revolution began coal powered steam engines
Speaker 1: that demand for metals and minerals and that gave rise
Speaker 1: to mighty industries for those of you who need a
Speaker 1: little bit of the history lesson. So the UK was
Speaker 1: the first country to actually lock in a deadline to
Speaker 1: phase out coal power by 2025. It's part of a
Speaker 1: bolder plan to transition the country to renewable
Speaker 1: power by 2030 it is among the first countries in
Speaker 1: the world to phase out coal. So this made me
Speaker 1: wonder how many active coal plants are left in the world. Jack,
Speaker 1: can you make a guess wild guess how many active
Speaker 1: coal plants roughly, I mean, some are shutting down but
Speaker 1: not that many. I think
Speaker 1: that the UK would be a rare story of a
Speaker 1: country really cutting out all of its coal. China still
Speaker 1: has new coal. Indonesia has quite a lot still going on.
Speaker 1: I've got no idea. Plants 1000 not quite as of July.
Speaker 1: This year, there were more than 2400 active operating coal plants.
Speaker 1: And that's according to statistic. But you know, the good
Speaker 1: news is it's
Speaker 1: been decreasing since 2021 as countries face it out. And
Speaker 1: you mentioned China, I think China accounts for nearly half
Speaker 1: of that figure. The writing is on the wall for coal,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. It is um on the industry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the economic fundamentals are just not there anymore. But yeah,
Speaker 1: countries like China still need it to power their economy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it'll take a few decades. All right, it's
Speaker 1: time for our main story this week.
Speaker 1: We tend to talk about one of the major cops
Speaker 1: quite often the conference of the parties. That's what cops
Speaker 1: stands for, that focuses on climate change that has delivered
Speaker 1: us the Kyoto Protocol, the Paris Agreement. There's another cop
Speaker 1: that collectively I feel gets a little bit overlooked outside
Speaker 1: of those who are intimately following the proceedings who are
Speaker 1: involved with it. That is the cop on biodiversity
Speaker 1: and it's happening soon in just over a week, cop
Speaker 1: 16 is being hosted in the city of Cali in Colombia.
Speaker 1: Plenty of heads of state ministers from across the world
Speaker 1: traveling there to attend
Speaker 1: now while it's happening in South America. What's discussed there
Speaker 1: actually matters for the whole world and there's plenty on
Speaker 1: the table. In short, there are lots of concerns about
Speaker 1: a biodiversity crisis happening across the globe. One key goal
Speaker 1: is advancing the Kunming Montreal Global Biodiversity framework.
Speaker 1: Now this is a big deal. It's kind of compared
Speaker 1: to the Paris Agreement in terms of its scope. Le
Speaker 1: you want to give us the low down on exactly
Speaker 1: what that mouthful of a framework is. I thought you'd
Speaker 1: never ask. So the Kunming Montreal Global Biodiversity framework is
Speaker 1: a landmark agreement reached by 100 and 96 countries back
Speaker 1: in 2022 at cop 15, it's been called the
Speaker 1: Agreement for Nature and its purpose is to stop and
Speaker 1: reverse biodiversity loss. So it's a huge huge deal. Now,
Speaker 1: it has four key goals to guide global efforts to
Speaker 1: conserve biodiversity by 2050.
Speaker 1: And they include ways to protect and expand natural ecosystems
Speaker 1: and stop species extinction caused by us humans. And it
Speaker 1: wants to do this by reducing the risk of extinction
Speaker 1: by tenfold. And that's just the first of the four goals.
Speaker 1: The others involve the sustainable use of biodiversity and natural
Speaker 1: resources and the fair sharing and usage of genetic resources.
Speaker 1: For example, when it comes to
Speaker 1: indigenous people and local communities such as the use of
Speaker 1: intellectual property laws to protect traditional knowledge around say for instance,
Speaker 1: the medicinal use of plants found in local communities. Right?
Speaker 1: It's interesting. Yeah. Now there are also goals around scientific
Speaker 1: knowledge sharing and technology transfers and especially around financing particularly
Speaker 1: for developing countries and small island developing states, right? And
Speaker 1: they
Speaker 1: a checklist of things that they want to accomplish, right?
Speaker 1: A lot of targets. You want to tell us all
Speaker 1: of the targets. No, I do not. I won't go
Speaker 1: through all the 23 but I will tell you some
Speaker 1: of the key targets and one of them is to
Speaker 1: bring the loss of areas with high concentrated biodiversity to zero.
Speaker 1: So bring that loss to zero and also restore what's
Speaker 1: already been degraded. So there are also rules to conserve
Speaker 1: and manage land and water bodies
Speaker 1: as well as target invasive species and also reduce pollution.
Speaker 1: So to do all this, you know, money is a
Speaker 1: big factor. So one of the major targets is to
Speaker 1: mobilize at least $200 billion a year from public and
Speaker 1: private sources by 2030. Now, what's really important Jack is
Speaker 1: that and you know this as well as you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of us who watch this biodiversity space is
Speaker 1: that this agreement,
Speaker 1: this framework is quite unprecedented and it comes as we
Speaker 1: are undergoing an extinction event right now due to human activities, right,
Speaker 1: a skill of biodiversity loss known as the Holocene extinction,
Speaker 1: which is the sixth mass extinction event in the history
Speaker 1: of the earth. And it's happening right now. It is
Speaker 1: thought you were bringing only good news this week and
Speaker 1: you just brought up the extinction. I went back to
Speaker 1: factory settings,
Speaker 1: a little reset button has been pressed, but that is
Speaker 1: a great introduction to what we're talking about here. It
Speaker 1: is a globally significant event for the future of the planet.
Speaker 1: These discussions really matter. And I think what's also fascinating
Speaker 1: about this cop is the location and Colombia is one
Speaker 1: of the most dangerous places in the world for environmental
Speaker 1: defenders and journalists, the very people who are standing up
Speaker 1: for biodiversity or informing our knowledge of what's going on.
Speaker 1: So lots of intersecting interests that happen in a place
Speaker 1: like Colombia.
Speaker 1: So let's explore that more. We're joined now by journalist
Speaker 1: Oliver Griffin from Thomson Reuters. He reports on environmental and
Speaker 1: energy issues from his HQ in Bogota Colombia.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me now. It's been a while
Speaker 1: since the biodiversity cop landed in South America. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you weren't there the last time it was in Brazil
Speaker 1: about 20 years ago. But what does it mean actually
Speaker 1: to have such significant talks on the continent coming up?
Speaker 2: No, I definitely wasn't there last time. But you know,
Speaker 2: it's I wouldn't say that I could necessarily speak for
Speaker 2: the continent. But it's clearly a huge deal for Colombia
Speaker 2: and Cali. It's been quite noticeable, the excitement being felt
Speaker 2: across the country and also, especially by the team in
Speaker 2: the Environment Ministry in a lot of that kind of
Speaker 2: press conferences, you can really tell they're already gearing up
Speaker 2: for it and they want it to be a huge success.
Speaker 2: We're expecting scores of government delegations, around a dozen heads
Speaker 2: of state and government leaders come enjoying the
Speaker 2: proceedings in cop 16. So it's definitely something that they've
Speaker 2: put a lot of work into. And there's a lot
Speaker 2: of excitement about what that might mean for the country
Speaker 2: more broadly in terms of the top environmental issues of
Speaker 2: the day,
Speaker 1: you
Speaker 1: cover Colombia and the broader South American region. And, and
Speaker 1: this is a region that's a really critical hotspot for
Speaker 1: many of the issues around biodiversity and biodiversity preservation. Can
Speaker 1: you talk us through what this part of the world
Speaker 1: is like? In terms of environmental reporting?
Speaker 2: I think, first and foremost, there's lots of really good
Speaker 2: environmental reports in the region. There's a lot of very
Speaker 2: talented um Colombian reporters and international reporters covering things from
Speaker 2: say across, let's call it the Spanish fringe of the Amazon,
Speaker 2: the part of the northern bit of the rain forest,
Speaker 2: which is predominantly Spanish, speaking, a lot of the issues
Speaker 2: to do with most recently are ones that you see
Speaker 2: they come out of Brazil to do with issues, the
Speaker 2: drought issues with forest fires, the usual kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: But I think
Speaker 2: as well, what a lot of people can forget is
Speaker 2: that unlike say Brazil, where obviously the vast majority of
Speaker 2: the Amazon is, we also have a lot of kind
Speaker 2: of different ecosystems to be reporting on across say the
Speaker 2: whole range of different altitudes that are in countries like
Speaker 2: Colombia and Ecuador, you know, Bogota, is it 2800 m,
Speaker 2: I think, which obviously means that's a starkly different environment
Speaker 2: to what you might see in the rainforest or uh
Speaker 2: in the Ku region.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of different kind of topics to
Speaker 2: be covering in the environment. And I think another issue
Speaker 2: that we can't really forget is that there are certainly
Speaker 2: dangerous to environmental reporting in this kind of region. Not
Speaker 2: that I feel that I've suffered from that myself, but
Speaker 2: we can't forget in neighboring Brazil, the murder of Dom
Speaker 2: Phipps and Bruno Pereira in 2022. So it's certainly not
Speaker 2: that as risks either. Uh
Speaker 1: You mentioned
Speaker 1: the aspects of safety for journalists and we often talk
Speaker 1: about environmental defenders in this region. Many threats being faced
Speaker 1: by people who are standing on the front line for
Speaker 1: their community or and for biodiversity.
Speaker 1: Do you think that Cop 16 will illuminate that issue,
Speaker 1: the level of threats being faced by environmental defenders?
Speaker 2: I think there is a hope that Cop 16 will
Speaker 2: address that issue I think Colombia in particular is a
Speaker 2: very interesting country to hold the cop. So soon after
Speaker 2: the global witness report came out earlier this year, Colombia
Speaker 2: was once again
Speaker 2: going to global witness the world's most dangerous country for environmentalists.
Speaker 2: It's not the first time or even the second time.
Speaker 2: I think in the five years that I've been here,
Speaker 2: that has been the case in Latin America in particular,
Speaker 2: going back to what does this mean for the continent?
Speaker 2: You know, Latin America is far and away the leader
Speaker 2: in terms of how environmentalists are treated poorly and killed
Speaker 2: for their work. We've done a lot of stories on
Speaker 2: this
Speaker 2: from Reuters, Bogota. Um I think there are definitely activists
Speaker 2: that hope that this is their opportunity to speak up
Speaker 2: and get an audience for the issues that they really face.
Speaker 2: It's something we continue to see this year. It's a
Speaker 2: real issue that environment continue to face, especially in Colombia,
Speaker 2: but also obviously in, in those other neighboring countries as well.
Speaker 2: I think it will be interesting to see if cop
Speaker 2: succeeded to
Speaker 2: shine a light on that. It's one thing I think
Speaker 2: sometimes it's easy to forget the humans that are on
Speaker 2: the front lines of conservation. And I think that hopefully
Speaker 2: this could be an opportunity for them to put forth
Speaker 2: their position and, and get some attention for what they're
Speaker 2: trying to draw attention to
Speaker 1: what is the source of the danger for these environmental
Speaker 1: defenders in Colombia, specifically,
Speaker 2: according to the government and security sources, most of the
Speaker 2: danger comes from illegal armed groups operating in the country
Speaker 2: and patrol traffickers that made me feel that their activities
Speaker 2: particularly in gold mining or tree felling are being threatened
Speaker 2: by people that are resisting those activities or getting in
Speaker 2: the way of their own economic gain.
Speaker 2: They would be the chief ones I think in our
Speaker 2: story in 2021 that was essentially what our sources told
Speaker 2: us was the case and the people most likely behind
Speaker 2: environmentalist killings in the country. Obviously, Colombia reached a peace
Speaker 2: agreement with the FARC in 2016. But that is by
Speaker 2: no means the end of the country's internal arm conflict,
Speaker 2: there are still other groups active in the country. And
Speaker 2: so those are the people that security saw
Speaker 2: and other members of the government would say are threatening
Speaker 2: particularly environments like this and environmentalists throughout the country.
Speaker 1: You know, you, you really rarely think about environmental work
Speaker 1: being something that involves a conflict zone. So this is
Speaker 1: really illuminating for us to hear. Yeah, super interesting part
Speaker 1: of the world to be doing environmental reporting. Let's turn
Speaker 1: to cop 16 a little bit. What are you going
Speaker 1: to be looking out for
Speaker 1: and how do you think it might impact some of
Speaker 1: the reporting that you and your team are doing regularly? Yeah.
Speaker 2: So as someone that reports on uh kind of twin
Speaker 2: bits of energy and the environment and we often, you know,
Speaker 2: cover cross overs of those two different bits. So for example,
Speaker 2: we did a story on oil theft and how that
Speaker 2: affects the environment and the ecosystems in the Colombian Pacific Jungle.
Speaker 2: I'm also gonna be looking for synergies between the climate
Speaker 2: cop made famous by the parrot Climates Agreement
Speaker 2: and also this biodiversity c and we've spoken to a
Speaker 2: few people that have really hammered home, how without protecting nature?
Speaker 2: These experts say we can't necessarily guarantee or we won't
Speaker 2: guarantee success in dealing with the climate challenges either. So
Speaker 2: it's gonna be really interesting for me personally, how those
Speaker 2: two could potentially work,
Speaker 2: especially with the next climate cop coming up in around,
Speaker 2: I think the end of the month and then obviously
Speaker 2: COP 30 which is the one that people are already
Speaker 2: talking about for next
Speaker 2: year.
Speaker 1: A lot of the issues around biodiversity. Now how it's
Speaker 1: about trying to manage and maintain or restore species loss?
Speaker 1: Now you where you are,
Speaker 1: you kind of get a first hand witness account of
Speaker 1: the impact that human activity is having on the environment
Speaker 1: and on biodiversity. What for you has been the most
Speaker 1: gutting thing that you have witnessed or reported on out
Speaker 1: of there?
Speaker 2: I think one of the most kind of surprising things
Speaker 2: I've ever seen is
Speaker 2: in person was deforestation and burning trees had been felled
Speaker 2: in Kakita around. I think that was 2021 when we
Speaker 2: went down to look at how illegal roads impact the
Speaker 2: Amazon and what they call the agricultural frontier. So that's
Speaker 2: where people are moving into the rainforest from the Colombian
Speaker 2: side of things.
Speaker 2: And it's one thing to see that on TV. And
Speaker 2: then to see photos of it and that's obviously devastating.
Speaker 2: I think it's another thing entirely to have your eyes
Speaker 2: sting from the smoke and be able to smell that
Speaker 2: kind of burning and see flames spring up from the
Speaker 2: side of a road that your guide is telling you
Speaker 2: wasn't even there until maybe a few weeks ago, months ago.
Speaker 2: So I think seeing, I guess deforestation in real time
Speaker 2: was absolutely the most surprising thing.
Speaker 2: Um, I say
Speaker 1: it's
Speaker 1: a stark contrast, isn't it? Just, you talked about being surprised.
Speaker 1: I lived in California for a while and there were
Speaker 1: a lot of wildfires there and some of them came
Speaker 1: so close to the highways, you'd be just driving down
Speaker 1: the highway and then there's right next to you. It's
Speaker 1: like this massive amount of smoke and fire happening, but
Speaker 1: everything else is just going on, traffic is moving. It's
Speaker 1: just
Speaker 1: so bizarre. There's this huge dissonance when it comes to
Speaker 1: that kind of thing and it's probably a fraction of
Speaker 1: what you were experiencing when you saw all that unfolding
Speaker 1: right there. But I can't imagine it
Speaker 2: was very weird having juxtaposed by having seen. I don't
Speaker 2: know which species but a monkey the first time I'd
Speaker 2: ever seen a monkey in the wild climbing through trees
Speaker 2: a few short hours, either early or later, I can't
Speaker 2: remember the exact chronology or this beautiful kind of toucan.
Speaker 2: And after seeing that and then being so close to
Speaker 2: nature in, in positive ways and then seeing nature impacted
Speaker 2: so negatively so soon afterwards. It was, yeah, it was
Speaker 2: very jarring to be in those two situations so close together.
Speaker 1: We've spoken in recent weeks about the extent of fires
Speaker 1: across South America. Has that been something that you've had
Speaker 1: to observe or report about? Or
Speaker 1: is it something that will be in the minds of
Speaker 1: those negotiating at COP 16 as well? Presumably if you've 60%
Speaker 1: of the continent covered in smoke, I think we were
Speaker 1: talking about a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously there's a huge story then Colombia has not
Speaker 2: been without its own share of fires either recently or
Speaker 2: or earlier in the year. I think the underlying story
Speaker 2: about that is around the scarce
Speaker 2: rainfall that we've seen, particularly in, say Colombia and equi
Speaker 2: in Bogota, a city that when I moved to it
Speaker 2: in 2019 was famous for being wet, but I was
Speaker 2: advised to bring an umbrella waterproof, which is not your
Speaker 2: usual kit, which you recommend when you move to South America, right?
Speaker 2: Especially from the UK. You know, it's not normal that
Speaker 2: someone is advising you when you're moving from uh brit
Speaker 2: to bring wet, wet weather clothes,
Speaker 2: but that was the case. And this year um Bogota
Speaker 2: has had water rationing. Ecuador has had to implement a
Speaker 2: series of power cuts to ration water in their own
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, for use in their own hydroelectric dams.
Speaker 2: And these are traditionally very wet places and people, experts
Speaker 2: and scientists who we've spoken to have very put squarely
Speaker 2: put that on climate change and the El Nino phenomenon
Speaker 2: that was exacerbated by climate change.
Speaker 2: And it does feel like we were just saying earlier
Speaker 2: with the flames that we saw with deforestation in real time.
Speaker 2: It really does feel that it's you can see climate
Speaker 2: change happening around you with the way that people are
Speaker 2: commenting on different weather phenomena. This stuff isn't uh quite right.
Speaker 1: Have you reported much about the finances towards developing countries
Speaker 1: and small and developing states in terms of managing their
Speaker 1: biodiversity loss.
Speaker 2: Colombia's government since coming in in 2022 has pushed very
Speaker 2: hard for money or financing or debt forgiveness for, let's
Speaker 2: say nature services looking
Speaker 2: after nature in the country, I know it's a contentious
Speaker 2: issue that's still being negotiated and you sometimes see these
Speaker 2: breakthroughs with multilateral loans or kind of agreements between countries.
Speaker 2: But what we, I think we do know is that
Speaker 2: there is a shortfall in how much money has been
Speaker 2: promised and how much organizers other countries with, with all
Speaker 2: the nature say is needed to help them protect that.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure that will be uh a key issue.
Speaker 2: But I think one thing that's clear from the people
Speaker 2: we've spoken to is that this cop is
Speaker 2: very much as an implementation cop. So it's about how
Speaker 2: things are going and how things are progressing. Those are
Speaker 2: the kind of key issues that people are expecting to
Speaker 2: see come up and check in on how everything is
Speaker 2: working out. So I don't know to what extent we
Speaker 2: can expect big announcements with lots of glitter and stuff.
Speaker 2: But I think we have to wait and see to
Speaker 2: see how they get on in the two weeks that
Speaker 2: go in from around the end
Speaker 1: of October. I want glitter. I want, I want to
Speaker 1: sue some glitter. Glitter is always,
Speaker 1: I'm always, I
Speaker 2: wonder if there's a biodiversity friendly version of glitter.
Speaker 1: I can imagine someone messing that up and sending plastic
Speaker 1: out into the rain forest inadvertently. There were pleasures at
Speaker 1: the last cop 15 to mobilize at least $200 billion
Speaker 1: a year from public and private sources and $30 billion
Speaker 1: a year for low income countries all by 2030. That's
Speaker 1: not very far away.
Speaker 1: Are you expecting to hear any updates? Any progress updates
Speaker 1: on that? It reminds me a lot of the climate
Speaker 1: cops where we hear about these huge amounts of finance
Speaker 1: that are being promised that are being pledged,
Speaker 1: but nobody can say how much is going to be announced.
Speaker 1: Nobody can say how much is actually been mobilized. It's
Speaker 1: all it's in this convoluted multilateral system. And I can
Speaker 1: see the mirroring of these frustrating processes in the climate
Speaker 1: cop actually playing out in the biodiversity cop too.
Speaker 1: When I was at the UN, we would spend just
Speaker 1: a whole day just trying to sift through all the
Speaker 1: noise just to get one spreadsheet about which country is
Speaker 1: donating how much when to expect it. It is just
Speaker 1: there's so many layers just to get to
Speaker 1: that information in this pursuit of transparency. You think that
Speaker 1: they make it a lot easier. What's your strategy Ollie
Speaker 1: to finding that out and letting us all know,
Speaker 2: I was just gonna rely on more talented, better colleagues
Speaker 2: than myself, but we'll do the usual check in with
Speaker 2: our sources and hopefully staying on top of any else
Speaker 2: as they come out or even better just before they
Speaker 2: come out to bring that to you. But I think
Speaker 2: it is, it's obviously a very
Speaker 2: kind of, I do feel that maybe topics that might
Speaker 2: seem easy to understand like plants and animals are actually
Speaker 2: clearly incredibly complicated the funding for them as well. And
Speaker 2: so it's never straightforward with how this kind of what
Speaker 2: these different announcements mean or or what the various funding means.
Speaker 2: So we'll obviously wait with beta breath to see how
Speaker 2: that comes out and, and how that develops over the
Speaker 2: cop 16.
Speaker 1: Alright, wish you all the best. We'll be keeping an
Speaker 1: eye on your reporting and we'll hopefully see you for
Speaker 1: cop 30 in Brazil. Yeah, that'd be great.
Speaker 1: Ok. Quiz time. Li Ling, repeating the question for you.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me the top three most diverse countries
Speaker 1: in the world? Ok. So the first one, I feel
Speaker 1: it's very obvious. Right. We're talking about, you know, countries
Speaker 1: that have the most biodiverse animals, creatures. So they have
Speaker 1: to be big and very likely near the equator, right,
Speaker 1: to sustain that kind of a population. And we kind
Speaker 1: of heard quite a bit about this country. So I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with Brazil at number one. Correct. Brazil is
Speaker 1: number one.
Speaker 1: Ok. I think I know what the next two are.
Speaker 1: They're not quite as obvious. Well, one of them might
Speaker 1: be quite obvious but they're not quite as obvious. I
Speaker 1: just don't know what, which comes before the other. So
Speaker 1: I know Indonesia has to be the other one and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with China. So Brazil, I think Indonesia.
Speaker 1: All right. So China, China, no, is correct. Three from
Speaker 1: 30 my God. I was kind of leaning towards
Speaker 1: to Australia, but I don't think Australia is that far.
Speaker 1: The number seven on the list. Australia and Colombia, the
Speaker 1: country we've been talking about is number four. No way. Oh, wow.
Speaker 1: People are gonna think this is a conspiracy now that
Speaker 1: you're just getting all of these correct every week. No,
Speaker 1: I did pretty badly. Last week I got the one
Speaker 1: with uh Catherine Hay. Correct. But last week I think
Speaker 1: I only got 11 country out of four. Right. I
Speaker 1: can't remember what it was, but I totally crashed on burn.
Speaker 1: Last week.
Speaker 1: You didn't? This week you've come through this week was
Speaker 1: quite easy. I think this one was quite obvious. Thank you. Alright.
Speaker 1: That's it for climate conversations. Thanks as always for joining
Speaker 1: us and we'll be back next week until then. I'm
Speaker 1: Li Ling Tan. Bye bye for now and I'm Jack Board.
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to the team that put together this podcast,
Speaker 1: Tiffany Janani, Jahari, Christina Robert and Sai Ying.