1 00:00:00,159 --> 00:00:02,490 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:07,590 --> 00:00:10,210 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Steve Lai and welcome to the first of 3 00:00:10,220 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: a three part series on CN A correspondent because 4 00:00:15,310 --> 00:00:19,059 Speaker 1: this year marks the 10th anniversary of Chinese President Xi 5 00:00:19,069 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: Jinping's globe spanning Belt and Road initiative. 6 00:00:22,909 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: Under this project, China has spent $1 trillion working with 7 00:00:26,649 --> 00:00:30,100 Speaker 1: more than 100 countries from factories in Africa to oil 8 00:00:30,110 --> 00:00:32,918 Speaker 1: refineries in Iran and ports in Greece to name a 9 00:00:32,930 --> 00:00:35,089 Speaker 1: few of the Belt and Road initiatives or BR I 10 00:00:35,098 --> 00:00:37,119 Speaker 1: projects built in the last decade. 11 00:00:37,759 --> 00:00:40,310 Speaker 1: The TV version of this series is currently available on 12 00:00:40,319 --> 00:00:44,138 Speaker 1: CNAs youtube channel on this podcast episode. You'll hear about 13 00:00:44,150 --> 00:00:47,049 Speaker 1: BR I initiatives in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan 14 00:00:47,779 --> 00:00:50,319 Speaker 1: and I know what you're thinking. CN A has a 15 00:00:50,330 --> 00:00:54,639 Speaker 1: correspondent in Astana in Tashkent. Well, no, we don't, but 16 00:00:54,650 --> 00:00:58,099 Speaker 1: we do have Li Yun Suk, our Korea correspondent who 17 00:00:58,110 --> 00:01:01,490 Speaker 1: went on a road trip across Central Asia. She's back 18 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:03,729 Speaker 1: and she joins me now. Hi, how are you doing? 19 00:01:04,028 --> 00:01:06,638 Speaker 1: Hello. Hi, Steve. It's good to have you on to 20 00:01:06,649 --> 00:01:10,999 Speaker 1: talk about your globe trotting adventuress. Now, China's BR involves 21 00:01:11,009 --> 00:01:13,948 Speaker 1: more than 100 countries. How did you end up in Kazakhstan? 22 00:01:13,958 --> 00:01:17,158 Speaker 1: And Uzbekistan. Well, CN A was planning to do a 23 00:01:17,168 --> 00:01:20,249 Speaker 1: special series on this Belt and Road initiative since this 24 00:01:20,259 --> 00:01:23,028 Speaker 1: year marks the 10 years since it started and we 25 00:01:23,039 --> 00:01:25,657 Speaker 1: were trying to decide which countries would be best. And 26 00:01:25,668 --> 00:01:29,469 Speaker 1: since this Belt and Road initiative really took off in Kazakhstan, 27 00:01:29,539 --> 00:01:30,179 Speaker 1: that's where 28 00:01:30,275 --> 00:01:32,934 Speaker 1: we decided that we had to have somebody there to 29 00:01:32,944 --> 00:01:35,274 Speaker 1: tell the story. And when I was asked if I 30 00:01:35,285 --> 00:01:38,235 Speaker 1: wanted to go, I really jumped at this opportunity because 31 00:01:38,245 --> 00:01:40,753 Speaker 1: I've heard a lot about those two countries, but I've 32 00:01:40,764 --> 00:01:43,055 Speaker 1: never really had a chance to go. And so I 33 00:01:43,065 --> 00:01:46,565 Speaker 1: was very happy to volunteer and say, yes, I will go. 34 00:01:46,574 --> 00:01:48,605 Speaker 1: And that's how I landed up and ended up in 35 00:01:48,614 --> 00:01:51,535 Speaker 1: those two countries. Yeah, quite an adventure. And tell us 36 00:01:51,544 --> 00:01:53,595 Speaker 1: a bit about the logistics involved. Then how long were 37 00:01:53,605 --> 00:01:56,444 Speaker 1: you traveling for? Did you do both countries back to back? 38 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,379 Speaker 1: Yes, I did. And it wasn't easy. I decided to 39 00:01:59,389 --> 00:02:02,949 Speaker 1: start off in Kazakhstan because there were direct flights from 40 00:02:02,959 --> 00:02:06,449 Speaker 1: here in China International Airport to Almaty, which is the 41 00:02:06,459 --> 00:02:09,500 Speaker 1: main commercial city in the country. And it used to 42 00:02:09,508 --> 00:02:12,380 Speaker 1: be the country's capital in the past. Now. The flight 43 00:02:12,389 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: was ok. It took about seven hours a bit longer 44 00:02:15,169 --> 00:02:17,149 Speaker 1: than what it would take me um to go to 45 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:17,889 Speaker 1: Singapore for, 46 00:02:17,966 --> 00:02:20,454 Speaker 1: from Inchon. But then we also had to travel to 47 00:02:20,466 --> 00:02:24,145 Speaker 1: this Astay city where, which is the capital now. And 48 00:02:24,255 --> 00:02:27,945 Speaker 1: that takes slightly more than one hour by flight. But 49 00:02:27,955 --> 00:02:30,815 Speaker 1: going to the airport, going through all the airport customs, 50 00:02:30,826 --> 00:02:33,115 Speaker 1: it really took half a day. So, you know, I 51 00:02:33,126 --> 00:02:36,054 Speaker 1: wanted to take the train but the train takes about 52 00:02:36,065 --> 00:02:39,136 Speaker 1: 17 hours. And so you can imagine 53 00:02:39,231 --> 00:02:42,052 Speaker 1: what the transport system is like in that country. So 54 00:02:42,061 --> 00:02:44,401 Speaker 1: I really had no choice but to fly. And then 55 00:02:44,412 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: we also had to go from Uzbekistan to Kazakhstan, the 56 00:02:47,572 --> 00:02:50,832 Speaker 1: capital of Astana meant taking another flight. So lots of 57 00:02:50,841 --> 00:02:54,052 Speaker 1: traveling around those two countries. Yeah, sounds like quite an 58 00:02:54,061 --> 00:02:56,222 Speaker 1: adventure you're on. If we take them one at a time, 59 00:02:56,231 --> 00:02:59,281 Speaker 1: then let's start with Kazakhstan. How did the BR I 60 00:02:59,292 --> 00:03:00,421 Speaker 1: take shape there? 61 00:03:00,899 --> 00:03:04,559 Speaker 1: Well, it really all started in Kazakhstan at a university 62 00:03:04,570 --> 00:03:09,279 Speaker 1: there called Zaev University, which was named after its first President, 63 00:03:09,288 --> 00:03:13,550 Speaker 1: Chinese President Xi Jinping visited there in 2013 and he 64 00:03:13,559 --> 00:03:16,279 Speaker 1: announced his Belt and Road initiative and that's how this 65 00:03:16,288 --> 00:03:20,630 Speaker 1: whole thing really started. And there he talked about reviving. 66 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,609 Speaker 1: We've heard so much about this ancient Silk Road and, 67 00:03:23,690 --> 00:03:27,100 Speaker 1: and I think that really grabbed the attention of many countries. 68 00:03:27,110 --> 00:03:29,339 Speaker 1: And also I was talking to some of the people 69 00:03:29,350 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 1: who were there who actually were listened to his speech 70 00:03:32,250 --> 00:03:35,399 Speaker 1: and they said that it sounded like this grand project, 71 00:03:35,410 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: but he was talking more about not building roads and railways, 72 00:03:39,610 --> 00:03:42,820 Speaker 1: but also a lot about the exchanges of people, the 73 00:03:42,830 --> 00:03:46,940 Speaker 1: students and the tourists there among the two countries. And 74 00:03:46,949 --> 00:03:48,839 Speaker 1: you actually spoke to people who were in the room 75 00:03:48,850 --> 00:03:50,669 Speaker 1: when he gave that speech 10 years ago. And you 76 00:03:50,679 --> 00:03:51,820 Speaker 1: were in the room yourself? 77 00:03:52,139 --> 00:03:54,020 Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I was and I actually went up to 78 00:03:54,029 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: the podium where he stood, he gave this speech. And 79 00:03:56,449 --> 00:03:59,009 Speaker 1: so it was quite exciting because it wasn't very big. 80 00:03:59,020 --> 00:04:02,199 Speaker 1: It was quite small. And apparently the people who attended 81 00:04:02,210 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: it were mostly professors, experts, but also a lot of 82 00:04:05,369 --> 00:04:08,979 Speaker 1: the ambassadors and the Chinese people brought in their little 83 00:04:08,990 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: silk like silk too and a lot of those Chinese furniture. 84 00:04:12,169 --> 00:04:14,580 Speaker 1: So it was something for everybody in that room to 85 00:04:14,589 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: have a look at. 86 00:04:15,889 --> 00:04:17,929 Speaker 1: Yeah, fascinating. And there's quite a bit of history as 87 00:04:17,940 --> 00:04:21,238 Speaker 1: well between China and Kazakhstan when it comes to trade 88 00:04:21,250 --> 00:04:25,429 Speaker 1: and mutual collaboration. Well, yes, definitely because even before this 89 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,519 Speaker 1: Belt and Road initiative took off Kazakhstan and China were 90 00:04:29,529 --> 00:04:33,328 Speaker 1: very close. I mean, they're Kazakhstan is really located between 91 00:04:33,339 --> 00:04:37,079 Speaker 1: China and Europe. And so during this ancient Silk Road, 92 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,820 Speaker 1: the traders and travelers on their camels and horses 93 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,109 Speaker 1: had to go through Kazakhstan and they were bringing goods 94 00:04:44,119 --> 00:04:47,209 Speaker 1: like silk paper and lots of other things. And it 95 00:04:47,220 --> 00:04:50,750 Speaker 1: wasn't just a one way trade, it was Chinese goods 96 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,850 Speaker 1: going into Europe, but also vice versa. It's remarkable what 97 00:04:54,859 --> 00:04:56,940 Speaker 1: the history has and how that was as a starting 98 00:04:56,950 --> 00:05:00,130 Speaker 1: point for the BR I projects. What sort of projects 99 00:05:00,140 --> 00:05:02,390 Speaker 1: are we talking about then? I understand you went on 100 00:05:02,399 --> 00:05:05,130 Speaker 1: a bit of a road trip to the gateway that 101 00:05:05,140 --> 00:05:06,010 Speaker 1: borders China. 102 00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:09,739 Speaker 1: Well, yes, and that itself was a very long trip, 103 00:05:09,750 --> 00:05:12,709 Speaker 1: very tiring because it took about five hours to get 104 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,010 Speaker 1: to this place called the Corgis Gateway from the city 105 00:05:16,019 --> 00:05:18,940 Speaker 1: of Almaty where we were staying and there were no 106 00:05:18,950 --> 00:05:21,970 Speaker 1: hotels nearby. There were nowhere we could go and stop. 107 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:23,859 Speaker 1: There wasn't a place where we could stop to have 108 00:05:23,869 --> 00:05:25,690 Speaker 1: a drink or go to a toilet or anything. It 109 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,368 Speaker 1: was just this barren land that we had to drive 110 00:05:28,380 --> 00:05:29,670 Speaker 1: for five hours. 111 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,130 Speaker 1: And so we set out very early one morning because 112 00:05:33,140 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: we wanted to be there before noon to be able 113 00:05:35,850 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: to have enough time to cover this area. Now, there's 114 00:05:38,928 --> 00:05:42,510 Speaker 1: a dry port at the Corus gateway on this Castan 115 00:05:42,540 --> 00:05:45,529 Speaker 1: side and on both sides of the border, there are 116 00:05:45,540 --> 00:05:49,540 Speaker 1: railway stations, the trains wanting to go to Europe all 117 00:05:49,549 --> 00:05:52,899 Speaker 1: through China will have to go through this Corus gateway. 118 00:05:53,380 --> 00:05:55,829 Speaker 1: But you know, very interesting here was that they use 119 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,149 Speaker 1: a different rail gauge. And so you can see containers 120 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,109 Speaker 1: being unloaded on one side, those that came from China 121 00:06:03,178 --> 00:06:05,820 Speaker 1: and then they would have to be reloaded onto another 122 00:06:05,829 --> 00:06:09,890 Speaker 1: container on the Kasai tracks because the trains from China 123 00:06:09,899 --> 00:06:11,100 Speaker 1: can't run on the Castan 124 00:06:11,299 --> 00:06:15,209 Speaker 1: rail tracks. And so that itself was very interesting to see. 125 00:06:15,220 --> 00:06:18,428 Speaker 1: But you know, this whole place is huge and it's 126 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: really in the middle of nowhere. One official I spoke 127 00:06:21,450 --> 00:06:25,739 Speaker 1: to who spoke English was telling me how this place 128 00:06:25,750 --> 00:06:29,178 Speaker 1: has really changed his life. And those around this area, 129 00:06:29,559 --> 00:06:32,750 Speaker 2: I know this place from my childhood, it is growing 130 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,328 Speaker 2: year by year and the operations are growing 131 00:06:35,570 --> 00:06:39,459 Speaker 2: and it has a big effect for our region, for 132 00:06:39,470 --> 00:06:43,019 Speaker 2: our village. And a lot of people from our region 133 00:06:43,029 --> 00:06:45,859 Speaker 2: can find a job and work here. We like it 134 00:06:45,869 --> 00:06:49,970 Speaker 2: because we get job and our village became like a 135 00:06:49,980 --> 00:06:53,489 Speaker 2: city and it's growing and we became one point in 136 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:58,118 Speaker 2: the world map before we was like lost place. 137 00:06:58,940 --> 00:07:01,570 Speaker 1: We really got a sense of how things have changed 138 00:07:01,579 --> 00:07:03,929 Speaker 1: in in his lifetime that he's been able to see 139 00:07:03,940 --> 00:07:06,100 Speaker 1: it grow out of the middle of nowhere. As you 140 00:07:06,109 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: described it interesting to know that the train tracks are 141 00:07:08,609 --> 00:07:11,609 Speaker 1: different and not compatible between the two countries that must 142 00:07:11,619 --> 00:07:15,309 Speaker 1: severely slow things down. But China's BR I project has, 143 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,420 Speaker 1: it certainly brought jobs and opportunities to Kazakhstan. What else 144 00:07:18,429 --> 00:07:19,070 Speaker 1: should we know? 145 00:07:19,549 --> 00:07:21,959 Speaker 1: Well, yes, but apart from that, there are lots of 146 00:07:21,970 --> 00:07:25,959 Speaker 1: critics out there criticizing China for putting many countries in debt. 147 00:07:25,970 --> 00:07:28,980 Speaker 1: And also saying that this Belt and Road initiative was 148 00:07:28,989 --> 00:07:32,750 Speaker 1: really um the aim of China to expand its presence 149 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,660 Speaker 1: in those many countries. But as you heard from that person, 150 00:07:37,649 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: he talks about how good it has for him. And 151 00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:41,750 Speaker 1: I think there must be some good things in all 152 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: of this project. And one of the interesting place that 153 00:07:44,609 --> 00:07:47,829 Speaker 1: we visited while we were there at the gateway was 154 00:07:47,839 --> 00:07:48,380 Speaker 1: also this 155 00:07:48,450 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: border area between the two countries. Now this was open 156 00:07:52,049 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: to residents China and also from Kazakhstan. And they don't 157 00:07:55,649 --> 00:07:58,739 Speaker 1: need visas, they can cross the border freely. And there 158 00:07:58,750 --> 00:08:01,660 Speaker 1: you can see the huge difference between these two countries. 159 00:08:01,670 --> 00:08:06,820 Speaker 1: China and Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan showing just really bearing empty land. 160 00:08:06,829 --> 00:08:09,820 Speaker 1: While on the other side, they were just this tall 161 00:08:09,829 --> 00:08:15,239 Speaker 1: huge buildings with Chinese sides on signs everywhere. And apparently 162 00:08:15,250 --> 00:08:17,279 Speaker 1: talking to a lot of the locals in Kazakhstan, 163 00:08:17,519 --> 00:08:20,399 Speaker 1: many of them go to this area to buy goods 164 00:08:20,410 --> 00:08:23,399 Speaker 1: because apparently it's like only one third of the price 165 00:08:23,410 --> 00:08:26,170 Speaker 1: of what, you know, they would have to pay in Kazakhstan. 166 00:08:26,179 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: And so many were telling me they were buying goods 167 00:08:28,730 --> 00:08:33,010 Speaker 1: like clothes, but also car supplies, like tires and they 168 00:08:33,020 --> 00:08:35,869 Speaker 1: would actually go there, make the trip because they just 169 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,979 Speaker 1: thought it was much more affordable. Next on CNN correspondent. 170 00:08:38,989 --> 00:08:41,780 Speaker 1: We'll turn our attention to Uzbekistan and I'll ask yuk 171 00:08:42,090 --> 00:08:44,630 Speaker 1: about the important questions of what she ate and what 172 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,179 Speaker 1: the food was like in these countries. 173 00:08:51,650 --> 00:08:54,770 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. My name is Christina and I'm Adrian and 174 00:08:54,780 --> 00:08:57,099 Speaker 1: we're the host of a podcast called Work It if 175 00:08:57,109 --> 00:08:59,108 Speaker 1: you never heard of it. Well, it's a good time 176 00:08:59,119 --> 00:09:01,820 Speaker 1: to tap in, in the last 20 episodes. We've discussed 177 00:09:01,830 --> 00:09:04,940 Speaker 1: topics like how to negotiate for a salary increase or 178 00:09:04,950 --> 00:09:07,539 Speaker 1: how to get along with younger colleagues who have different 179 00:09:07,549 --> 00:09:08,900 Speaker 1: values from you, which 180 00:09:09,015 --> 00:09:12,655 Speaker 1: incidentally it's our top performing episode. If work consumes your 181 00:09:12,664 --> 00:09:16,325 Speaker 1: life and you want some perspective on issues like management, stress, 182 00:09:16,335 --> 00:09:20,234 Speaker 1: even office romance, then this podcast should be on your list. 183 00:09:20,405 --> 00:09:23,315 Speaker 1: A new episode drops every Monday. Catch us on the 184 00:09:23,325 --> 00:09:26,324 Speaker 1: CN AM or wherever you get your podcast. 185 00:09:34,859 --> 00:09:37,030 Speaker 1: You're listening to CN A correspondent with me, Steve Lai 186 00:09:37,039 --> 00:09:39,809 Speaker 1: and we're going to move our BR I conversation on 187 00:09:39,820 --> 00:09:44,340 Speaker 1: to Uzbekistan where investment from China's initiative has included sectors 188 00:09:44,349 --> 00:09:48,900 Speaker 1: like raw materials, energy, infrastructure, telecommunications, advanced technology. And the 189 00:09:48,909 --> 00:09:51,848 Speaker 1: list goes on and on. And just like Kazakhstan, the 190 00:09:51,859 --> 00:09:55,010 Speaker 1: BR I breathed new life into an old story 191 00:09:56,090 --> 00:10:00,429 Speaker 2: when it was proposed first time. 10 years ago, we 192 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,020 Speaker 2: understood it as a revitalization of the Great Silk Road 193 00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:09,159 Speaker 2: in the modern form, this romantic ancient history of Great 194 00:10:09,169 --> 00:10:14,460 Speaker 2: Silk Road forgotten because of dominance of sea trade, oceanic trade. 195 00:10:14,469 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: And now Central Asia gets 196 00:10:17,145 --> 00:10:21,905 Speaker 2: or is getting a new chance to revitalize the modern 197 00:10:21,914 --> 00:10:25,843 Speaker 2: form of Great Silk Road. Because of the modern technology 198 00:10:25,854 --> 00:10:31,723 Speaker 2: of the 21st century that railroads, highways and air transportation 199 00:10:31,734 --> 00:10:34,354 Speaker 2: can also be very beneficial. 200 00:10:34,794 --> 00:10:38,604 Speaker 1: That was Director of the Knowledge Caravan, Dr Faro Holik. 201 00:10:38,765 --> 00:10:40,335 Speaker 1: What else did Dr Toli tell you? 202 00:10:41,070 --> 00:10:45,020 Speaker 1: Well, he said experts like himself in Uzbekistan, but also 203 00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:49,919 Speaker 1: his colleagues in Kazakhstan were watching this project very closely. 204 00:10:49,929 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: They say that they know that there is geopolitics involved 205 00:10:53,450 --> 00:10:55,859 Speaker 1: and that there are lots of concerns about putting their 206 00:10:55,869 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: countries in being too much influence under China. But so far, 207 00:11:00,010 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: he said he's been good and he cited one example 208 00:11:02,969 --> 00:11:05,260 Speaker 1: of how there was a tunnel that was built 209 00:11:05,343 --> 00:11:08,362 Speaker 1: and it was called the tunnel. And with the help 210 00:11:08,372 --> 00:11:11,583 Speaker 1: of China, this was built and it allowed people to 211 00:11:11,593 --> 00:11:14,403 Speaker 1: travel back and forth from a valley called for Ghana 212 00:11:14,413 --> 00:11:19,282 Speaker 1: Valley to Uzbekistan's capital city of Tashkent. He was saying 213 00:11:19,293 --> 00:11:21,312 Speaker 1: that it was a very difficult journey in the past, 214 00:11:21,322 --> 00:11:23,992 Speaker 1: it was very difficult for people to travel there. Um 215 00:11:24,002 --> 00:11:26,192 Speaker 1: because you had to go through mountains and it would 216 00:11:26,203 --> 00:11:29,502 Speaker 1: take hours before that tunnel was built, but now you 217 00:11:29,513 --> 00:11:29,692 Speaker 1: need to 218 00:11:29,776 --> 00:11:33,265 Speaker 1: take three hours. And so that's one example he cited 219 00:11:33,276 --> 00:11:36,825 Speaker 1: and he did say that his country, Uzbekistan needed to 220 00:11:36,835 --> 00:11:39,875 Speaker 1: be on an alert and to ensure that China does 221 00:11:39,885 --> 00:11:43,955 Speaker 1: not have control over those projects or the country as 222 00:11:43,966 --> 00:11:46,265 Speaker 1: that was not why they were taking part in this 223 00:11:46,276 --> 00:11:49,145 Speaker 1: Belt and Road initiative is that where Uzbekistan is seeing 224 00:11:49,155 --> 00:11:51,945 Speaker 1: the biggest impact then with this sort of the travel 225 00:11:51,955 --> 00:11:54,125 Speaker 1: logistics with highways and things like that. 226 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,580 Speaker 1: Well, so far, yes, it is because the infrastructure is 227 00:11:57,590 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: still underdeveloped. And so we did see a lot of 228 00:12:00,289 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: construction work going on, a lot of the railway works. 229 00:12:03,450 --> 00:12:06,150 Speaker 1: But apart from that, I think there's also a lot 230 00:12:06,159 --> 00:12:09,609 Speaker 1: of Chinese presence in the country now and talking to 231 00:12:09,619 --> 00:12:12,380 Speaker 1: a lot of tour guides and people there, they say 232 00:12:12,390 --> 00:12:15,289 Speaker 1: that they are seeing more people come from China. And 233 00:12:15,299 --> 00:12:18,039 Speaker 1: in fact, there is a street where I was seeing 234 00:12:18,049 --> 00:12:20,030 Speaker 1: Chinese signs everywhere and 235 00:12:20,104 --> 00:12:23,304 Speaker 1: lots of buildings with Chinese characters in them. And so 236 00:12:23,315 --> 00:12:25,664 Speaker 1: there seemed to be a lot of Chinese companies going 237 00:12:25,674 --> 00:12:29,755 Speaker 1: into Uzbekistan now. And in fact, talking to professors and 238 00:12:29,765 --> 00:12:33,104 Speaker 1: students too at one university. And there they were saying 239 00:12:33,114 --> 00:12:36,474 Speaker 1: that there are lots of Uzbekistani students who want to 240 00:12:36,484 --> 00:12:39,424 Speaker 1: learn Chinese now because they find it that there will 241 00:12:39,434 --> 00:12:42,974 Speaker 1: be more opportunities to find jobs with Chinese companies in 242 00:12:42,984 --> 00:12:45,395 Speaker 1: the country. But also to be able to go and 243 00:12:45,405 --> 00:12:45,613 Speaker 1: travel 244 00:12:45,690 --> 00:12:48,020 Speaker 1: to China too. And so there are lots of interest 245 00:12:48,030 --> 00:12:51,739 Speaker 1: about China among the Akitani students, the young people. And 246 00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:54,619 Speaker 1: also there seems to be a lot of student exchanges 247 00:12:54,630 --> 00:12:57,530 Speaker 1: between the two countries right now. And tour guides that 248 00:12:57,539 --> 00:13:00,500 Speaker 1: I spoke to were saying that now they're seeing also 249 00:13:00,510 --> 00:13:04,859 Speaker 1: large Chinese tourist groups coming into the country. And so 250 00:13:04,869 --> 00:13:07,939 Speaker 1: I think apart from the railways and railroads, there's much 251 00:13:07,950 --> 00:13:10,799 Speaker 1: more going on between the two countries. And in fact, 252 00:13:10,809 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: I got a chance 253 00:13:11,275 --> 00:13:15,895 Speaker 1: to interview the Uzbekistan's Minister of Culture and Tourism, Mr 254 00:13:15,905 --> 00:13:19,405 Speaker 1: Nazar Beko of SBE, who said in the past, most 255 00:13:19,414 --> 00:13:23,674 Speaker 1: of the country, tourists were from the neighboring countries, about 82% 256 00:13:23,684 --> 00:13:26,864 Speaker 1: of them. But there has been an increase in Chinese tourists. 257 00:13:26,875 --> 00:13:29,044 Speaker 1: And this year, he's hoping that the country will be 258 00:13:29,054 --> 00:13:33,005 Speaker 1: able to bring in maybe about 100,000 tourists from China 259 00:13:33,015 --> 00:13:36,784 Speaker 1: compared to about 20,000 to 30,000 in the past. 260 00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:40,289 Speaker 1: Yeah. So not just the hardware, like the infrastructure but 261 00:13:40,299 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: also the tourism industry, seeing a bit of a boom 262 00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:46,739 Speaker 1: in Uzbekistan. Now China's move into the country has brought 263 00:13:46,750 --> 00:13:49,950 Speaker 1: it right into Russia's backyard. What does that mean for 264 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,159 Speaker 1: the relationships between those countries? 265 00:13:52,419 --> 00:13:56,229 Speaker 1: A lot? I didn't think it would but China remains 266 00:13:56,239 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: the largest trading partner, but I did get a sense 267 00:13:59,210 --> 00:14:02,580 Speaker 1: talking to officials and experts there that this ongoing war 268 00:14:02,590 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: with Ukraine, there was less contact between the two countries 269 00:14:05,849 --> 00:14:09,059 Speaker 1: now and more so with China these days. And in fact, 270 00:14:09,260 --> 00:14:12,500 Speaker 1: Uzbekistan has come forward saying that it wants to maintain 271 00:14:12,510 --> 00:14:16,179 Speaker 1: good relations with both countries, Russia and Ukraine, but that 272 00:14:16,190 --> 00:14:17,599 Speaker 1: it was opposed to this war. 273 00:14:17,974 --> 00:14:20,994 Speaker 1: And so we must remember that they go back decades 274 00:14:21,005 --> 00:14:24,294 Speaker 1: and in fact, most people in Uzbekistan speak Russian, though 275 00:14:24,304 --> 00:14:26,424 Speaker 1: the locals were telling me that they are trying to 276 00:14:26,434 --> 00:14:29,755 Speaker 1: speak less Russian now and more of their local language 277 00:14:29,765 --> 00:14:32,075 Speaker 1: these days. Yeah, interesting to see how this sort of 278 00:14:32,085 --> 00:14:35,554 Speaker 1: geopolitics plays a part in all these relationships and how 279 00:14:35,565 --> 00:14:38,294 Speaker 1: they weave with each other. So while we're on the 280 00:14:38,304 --> 00:14:41,505 Speaker 1: subject of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, what other impact has 281 00:14:41,515 --> 00:14:42,875 Speaker 1: it had on Uzbekistan? 282 00:14:43,359 --> 00:14:45,789 Speaker 1: Well, you know what I was told that these days 283 00:14:45,799 --> 00:14:49,609 Speaker 1: you can see more Russians in Uzbekistan than before. Apparently 284 00:14:49,619 --> 00:14:52,169 Speaker 1: many of the young Russian men who didn't want to 285 00:14:52,179 --> 00:14:55,419 Speaker 1: go into the war had instead come to Uzbekistan and 286 00:14:55,429 --> 00:14:58,590 Speaker 1: many had settled down there too. And because there is 287 00:14:58,599 --> 00:15:02,909 Speaker 1: no language barrier or really cultural barrier, many from Russia 288 00:15:02,919 --> 00:15:04,849 Speaker 1: went to Uzbekistan and one tour guide, 289 00:15:04,919 --> 00:15:07,659 Speaker 1: he was telling me that the prices of goods and 290 00:15:07,669 --> 00:15:10,630 Speaker 1: housing had all gone up because of the Russians in 291 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,690 Speaker 1: Uzbekistan now because we're not talking about those, the lower income. 292 00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,679 Speaker 1: But many of those who went to Uzbekistan are rich 293 00:15:17,690 --> 00:15:21,010 Speaker 1: Russians who could afford to buy houses and, and they 294 00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:24,349 Speaker 1: were just really increasing the prices there and they're now 295 00:15:24,359 --> 00:15:26,409 Speaker 1: making Uzbekistan their new home. 296 00:15:26,739 --> 00:15:29,530 Speaker 1: That's so interesting to hear the knock on effects of, 297 00:15:29,539 --> 00:15:32,219 Speaker 1: of this war in Ukraine by Russia and what it's 298 00:15:32,229 --> 00:15:34,789 Speaker 1: doing to the people there just trying to get away 299 00:15:34,799 --> 00:15:36,590 Speaker 1: from it and don't want to have anything to do 300 00:15:36,599 --> 00:15:38,789 Speaker 1: with it now. It's not just China that has an 301 00:15:38,799 --> 00:15:42,179 Speaker 1: interest in Uzbekistan and Central Asia in general. Uh What 302 00:15:42,190 --> 00:15:44,739 Speaker 1: else did you learn about the other players that also 303 00:15:44,750 --> 00:15:46,690 Speaker 1: are starting to pay a bit more attention to the region? 304 00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:50,299 Speaker 1: Well, I think more countries are taking an interest in 305 00:15:50,309 --> 00:15:53,979 Speaker 1: Uzbekistan and other states. Like Kazakhstan. I had heard that 306 00:15:53,989 --> 00:15:56,590 Speaker 1: there were lots of British and us companies there too, 307 00:15:56,599 --> 00:15:58,669 Speaker 1: although I didn't get a chance to interview them. 308 00:15:58,929 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: But throughout my stay there, which was about nine days, 309 00:16:02,450 --> 00:16:04,809 Speaker 1: I didn't really see a lot of tourists from us 310 00:16:04,820 --> 00:16:07,809 Speaker 1: or Europe and one tour guide was telling me that 311 00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:11,179 Speaker 1: he thinks it was mainly because of the distance between 312 00:16:11,190 --> 00:16:14,530 Speaker 1: Central Asia and those countries. And also Central Asia is 313 00:16:14,539 --> 00:16:18,119 Speaker 1: very still unknown to most people. And that's why the 314 00:16:18,130 --> 00:16:20,830 Speaker 1: official I met at the Corus gateway, Miss Augusta is 315 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:21,119 Speaker 1: only 316 00:16:21,559 --> 00:16:24,849 Speaker 1: was saying that this Belt and Road initiative had really 317 00:16:24,859 --> 00:16:28,530 Speaker 1: put Kazakhstan on the world map again. And he said 318 00:16:28,539 --> 00:16:30,989 Speaker 1: that if it was not for this Belt and Road initiative, 319 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,770 Speaker 1: people like me would not be traveling there, which I 320 00:16:33,780 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: guess would be true. And so I guess he thinks 321 00:16:36,090 --> 00:16:39,710 Speaker 1: that this Belt and Road initiative has finally put Kazakhstani 322 00:16:39,719 --> 00:16:43,390 Speaker 1: and also other Central Asian States on the world map. 323 00:16:43,979 --> 00:16:45,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it certainly has. It's great to hear you telling 324 00:16:45,929 --> 00:16:48,090 Speaker 1: us all about your adventures there just away from sort 325 00:16:48,099 --> 00:16:49,909 Speaker 1: of the work side of things. Tell us a bit 326 00:16:49,919 --> 00:16:53,429 Speaker 1: about your impressions of, of both countries, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. I, 327 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,159 Speaker 1: I believe you hadn't been there before. This is the 328 00:16:55,169 --> 00:16:55,890 Speaker 1: first time for you. 329 00:16:56,609 --> 00:16:59,599 Speaker 1: It was my first time. I've always been interested, but 330 00:16:59,609 --> 00:17:02,599 Speaker 1: I think it was fascinating for one thing is huge. 331 00:17:02,609 --> 00:17:05,420 Speaker 1: And so there's just so many fascinating things to see 332 00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:08,739 Speaker 1: and do there. But also the people are really nice, 333 00:17:08,750 --> 00:17:12,459 Speaker 1: especially there was this one incident in Uzbekistan where I 334 00:17:12,469 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: was just walking along the roads trying to see what 335 00:17:14,810 --> 00:17:17,780 Speaker 1: kind of houses they were living in and I was 336 00:17:17,790 --> 00:17:19,859 Speaker 1: passing by and there was this one house where there 337 00:17:19,869 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: were just so many people, 338 00:17:20,654 --> 00:17:23,273 Speaker 1: people outside. And so I asked them what was going 339 00:17:23,284 --> 00:17:25,213 Speaker 1: on and they said there was a wedding the next 340 00:17:25,223 --> 00:17:28,433 Speaker 1: day and the party had already started and they invited 341 00:17:28,443 --> 00:17:31,332 Speaker 1: me and my crew and they gave us drinks and 342 00:17:31,343 --> 00:17:34,943 Speaker 1: food saying that we should stay until the wedding, right? 343 00:17:34,953 --> 00:17:38,504 Speaker 1: And it is, and I think it's for them because 344 00:17:38,513 --> 00:17:41,913 Speaker 1: even during the Ancient Silk Road, that's what happened. They 345 00:17:41,923 --> 00:17:44,562 Speaker 1: were telling me that travelers would go by and they 346 00:17:44,573 --> 00:17:44,593 Speaker 1: were 347 00:17:44,696 --> 00:17:47,588 Speaker 1: to traders and they would stay the night. So their horses, 348 00:17:47,598 --> 00:17:50,277 Speaker 1: their camels would be able to get a rest and 349 00:17:50,287 --> 00:17:52,907 Speaker 1: like then they would be fed and they will be 350 00:17:52,917 --> 00:17:56,228 Speaker 1: given all the food and they have fantastic food too, 351 00:17:56,238 --> 00:17:58,958 Speaker 1: but they would open up their houses to strangers and 352 00:17:58,968 --> 00:18:01,707 Speaker 1: they're still doing that. That is incredible. And did you 353 00:18:01,718 --> 00:18:04,338 Speaker 1: go in? Did you meet the bride and groom? Did 354 00:18:04,348 --> 00:18:06,547 Speaker 1: you try some of the local food? Well, the bride 355 00:18:06,557 --> 00:18:08,647 Speaker 1: and groom were not there that day. They will 356 00:18:08,741 --> 00:18:12,531 Speaker 1: on the wedding day itself. But yes, definitely we went 357 00:18:12,541 --> 00:18:15,651 Speaker 1: in and there were just so many people there, so 358 00:18:15,661 --> 00:18:20,251 Speaker 1: much food, there was dancing and singing and they also 359 00:18:20,261 --> 00:18:23,552 Speaker 1: were preparing all the food and we went in, they 360 00:18:23,561 --> 00:18:26,271 Speaker 1: gave me this plate of their favorite which is called 361 00:18:26,281 --> 00:18:30,472 Speaker 1: similar to a pill off like rice with vegetables and meat. 362 00:18:30,501 --> 00:18:32,692 Speaker 1: And they were saying try this and I had little 363 00:18:32,786 --> 00:18:34,725 Speaker 1: is coming here and say, please try this and please 364 00:18:34,734 --> 00:18:37,956 Speaker 1: try this too. And so it was an experience, I mean, 365 00:18:37,965 --> 00:18:40,515 Speaker 1: living in a place like Korea sometimes I don't even 366 00:18:40,526 --> 00:18:42,906 Speaker 1: know who my neighbor is. And so I went there 367 00:18:42,916 --> 00:18:45,176 Speaker 1: and it just seems like they were just so nice 368 00:18:45,186 --> 00:18:47,984 Speaker 1: to people they had never met before. Uh So definitely 369 00:18:47,994 --> 00:18:50,525 Speaker 1: recommend people going to go visit, I suppose. Uzbekistan and 370 00:18:50,536 --> 00:18:53,855 Speaker 1: Kazakhstan after your experience, any misconceptions you had before that 371 00:18:53,865 --> 00:18:55,965 Speaker 1: has been cleared up or what was your take away 372 00:18:55,975 --> 00:18:56,715 Speaker 1: from your trip? 373 00:18:57,390 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: Well, when we went to Uzbekistan, it was early June, 374 00:19:01,170 --> 00:19:05,939 Speaker 1: but it was really hot, it was like 43 42 degrees. 375 00:19:05,949 --> 00:19:08,619 Speaker 1: And so I was told that the summer was hot 376 00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:10,810 Speaker 1: and it was gonna start in, in July and that's 377 00:19:10,819 --> 00:19:13,379 Speaker 1: why we went early for this project, but it was 378 00:19:13,390 --> 00:19:15,770 Speaker 1: just so hot. And so I don't know, they keep 379 00:19:15,780 --> 00:19:15,979 Speaker 1: telling me 380 00:19:16,069 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: me that I gotta come back. I gotta go back 381 00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:21,219 Speaker 1: in October and November when the weather's better. But we'll see, 382 00:19:21,229 --> 00:19:25,930 Speaker 1: but it is a fascinating place, both places, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. 383 00:19:26,099 --> 00:19:28,458 Speaker 1: There's just so much to see and the people are 384 00:19:28,469 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: so nice. I think it's a place that everyone and 385 00:19:30,890 --> 00:19:33,208 Speaker 1: you speak too. If you get a chance, I think 386 00:19:33,219 --> 00:19:34,660 Speaker 1: you definitely should go and visit. 387 00:19:35,079 --> 00:19:37,419 Speaker 1: Alright. I'll put it on my calendar to go, but 388 00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:39,619 Speaker 1: not in June and it's too hot. I'll have to 389 00:19:39,630 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: go in the cooler months. Thank you so much for 390 00:19:41,930 --> 00:19:43,770 Speaker 1: speaking to me today. It's great to hear about your 391 00:19:43,780 --> 00:19:47,589 Speaker 1: adventures and what has been happening in both Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. 392 00:19:47,859 --> 00:19:51,050 Speaker 1: Thank you. 10 years since it was first launched. You've 393 00:19:51,060 --> 00:19:54,069 Speaker 1: heard how China's BR I projects have impacted lives and 394 00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:55,810 Speaker 1: livelihoods across Central Asia 395 00:19:56,060 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: as it seeks to reinvent the Silk Road for the 396 00:19:58,290 --> 00:20:02,020 Speaker 1: 21st century with a sprawling agenda on part two of 397 00:20:02,030 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: this three part series, you'll hear about one of the 398 00:20:04,170 --> 00:20:06,699 Speaker 1: biggest controversies of the BR I the so called debt 399 00:20:06,709 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: trap financing. And if it is really the case, Theresa 400 00:20:10,530 --> 00:20:13,349 Speaker 1: Tang talks to our correspondent Chani VVA who made the 401 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,109 Speaker 1: trip to Sri Lanka to discover a country whose own 402 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,290 Speaker 1: political instability has only added to its woes 403 00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 1: do like and subscribe to this podcast version. So you 404 00:20:22,729 --> 00:20:25,349 Speaker 1: don't miss it. It's available on our website and mobile 405 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,319 Speaker 1: app as well as Spotify, Apple and Google podcasts. The 406 00:20:28,329 --> 00:20:30,839 Speaker 1: TV version CN A correspondent airs on CN A every 407 00:20:30,849 --> 00:20:33,550 Speaker 1: Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. You can also catch up with 408 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,510 Speaker 1: it whenever and wherever you like on CN A dot Asia. 409 00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:37,688 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. 410 00:20:38,430 --> 00:20:41,099 Speaker 1: Our podcast team is made up of Wind Christina Robert 411 00:20:41,109 --> 00:20:42,900 Speaker 1: Clara Ong and me, Steve Life.