1 00:00:00,270 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:05,090 --> 00:00:07,659 Speaker 2: Hello, everyone and welcome to Heart of The Matter with me, 3 00:00:07,670 --> 00:00:11,068 Speaker 2: Steven Chia. Now, last year, the first batch of homeowners 4 00:00:11,079 --> 00:00:14,949 Speaker 2: collected their keys to move into Tega HD B's 24th 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,099 Speaker 2: public housing estate. And this is being positioned as Singapore's 6 00:00:18,110 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 2: ecofriendly smart energy town. But the first batch of residents 7 00:00:22,649 --> 00:00:24,329 Speaker 2: who have moved in have taken to social media to 8 00:00:24,340 --> 00:00:28,469 Speaker 2: list out a whole bunch of complaints, poor internet connection, 9 00:00:28,479 --> 00:00:32,990 Speaker 2: leaking and condensation issues of the central cooling system or CCS. 10 00:00:33,409 --> 00:00:35,339 Speaker 2: So we want to find out just what's going on. 11 00:00:35,348 --> 00:00:39,069 Speaker 2: Are these just common teething issues when building a new 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,349 Speaker 2: estate or do Singaporeans simply have higher expectations 13 00:00:44,409 --> 00:00:47,189 Speaker 2: to discuss this with me today. I have W Jun 14 00:00:47,409 --> 00:00:49,849 Speaker 2: Jie from the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy 15 00:00:49,860 --> 00:00:52,369 Speaker 2: at the National University of Singapore. Thanks for having me 16 00:00:52,380 --> 00:00:55,619 Speaker 2: and Nicholas Mark a real estate analyst. Glad to be here. Ok, 17 00:00:55,630 --> 00:00:58,500 Speaker 2: welcome guys. Just to add that we did invite HDB 18 00:00:58,509 --> 00:01:02,509 Speaker 2: and SP group to join us today. HDB declined to 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,869 Speaker 2: come on and P group said they wouldn't mind but 20 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,660 Speaker 2: the latest stage. So we might go back to them again. 21 00:01:07,750 --> 00:01:09,550 Speaker 2: But let's start the discussion with you 22 00:01:10,139 --> 00:01:13,010 Speaker 2: because Singapore has been building residential estates for many years 23 00:01:13,019 --> 00:01:15,610 Speaker 2: now and there are always some teething problems. I mean, 24 00:01:15,620 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 2: leaks cracks, things that can be expected. Tenga is a 25 00:01:19,569 --> 00:01:22,878 Speaker 2: huge new town. It's a bit larger than the average one. 26 00:01:22,889 --> 00:01:26,789 Speaker 2: There are five districts. So what goes into the planning 27 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,220 Speaker 2: of such a massive new town? How is it different? 28 00:01:29,230 --> 00:01:31,279 Speaker 2: A couple of constraints we need to think about when 29 00:01:31,290 --> 00:01:34,129 Speaker 2: we think about Tenga, firstly, there was pretty much nothing 30 00:01:34,139 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 2: in 10 when the estate was built. 31 00:01:36,180 --> 00:01:39,459 Speaker 2: And secondly, it's connectivity to existing towns was not as 32 00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 2: connected as other towns that we have built in Singapore. 33 00:01:42,410 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: I think a good parallel would be Punggol. Punggol was 34 00:01:45,050 --> 00:01:48,150 Speaker 2: also built from scratch. And if you remember Punggol had 35 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,190 Speaker 2: issues with transport connectivity and even until a later stage, 36 00:01:52,199 --> 00:01:55,430 Speaker 2: questions about amenities. So I think there are teething problems. 37 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,949 Speaker 2: They are quite common across many estates for that is 38 00:01:58,959 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: exacerbated by the size of the estate is huge. 39 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,300 Speaker 2: And secondly, there was COVID, there were all these delays 40 00:02:05,309 --> 00:02:07,970 Speaker 2: to the process. But one would argue that if you 41 00:02:07,980 --> 00:02:11,288 Speaker 2: don't have the infrastructure to support the people living there yet, 42 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:14,258 Speaker 2: then don't let the people move in yet. Right. Well, 43 00:02:14,270 --> 00:02:16,509 Speaker 2: there are also people who are vying to get the 44 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,429 Speaker 2: key start renovations. So there is a trade off to 45 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:20,100 Speaker 2: giving them the 46 00:02:21,119 --> 00:02:23,728 Speaker 2: and making sure everything is ready before they move in. 47 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,299 Speaker 2: Then they will ask, what can I expect when I 48 00:02:26,309 --> 00:02:28,059 Speaker 2: move into a new town? How fair is it for 49 00:02:28,070 --> 00:02:29,859 Speaker 2: me to expect that there's a bus stop, there's an 50 00:02:29,869 --> 00:02:32,839 Speaker 2: MT there are a few shops, right? For the basic 51 00:02:32,850 --> 00:02:36,350 Speaker 2: infrastructure like roads, bus stops. MRT. My sense is there's 52 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,130 Speaker 2: a great effort to make sure that they're running 53 00:02:38,380 --> 00:02:41,479 Speaker 2: are not always smoothly because these are very new infrastructure, 54 00:02:41,490 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: the shops I think are more difficult kind of amenity 55 00:02:44,169 --> 00:02:47,020 Speaker 2: to ensure it's a chicken and egg problem. The shopkeepers 56 00:02:47,029 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 2: may say, wait, there are not many people living here. 57 00:02:49,410 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 2: Why should I be selling my stuff here 58 00:02:51,550 --> 00:02:53,759 Speaker 2: and then people move in and say, hey, no shops, 59 00:02:53,770 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: there's nothing to buy here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So who 60 00:02:55,889 --> 00:02:58,339 Speaker 2: goes first? So Nick, normally, how many years does it 61 00:02:58,350 --> 00:03:00,758 Speaker 2: take for a town to sort of settle down? We 62 00:03:00,770 --> 00:03:03,649 Speaker 2: are actually a nation of instant trees, you know, at 63 00:03:03,660 --> 00:03:06,168 Speaker 2: one moment the road is bare and then one week 64 00:03:06,179 --> 00:03:10,330 Speaker 2: later you got adult trees over there. So Singaporeans begin 65 00:03:10,339 --> 00:03:11,929 Speaker 2: to expect miracles 66 00:03:12,014 --> 00:03:14,774 Speaker 2: the norm. But I don't think we can really blame 67 00:03:14,785 --> 00:03:17,475 Speaker 2: the homeowners because in a way they have put in 68 00:03:17,485 --> 00:03:20,364 Speaker 2: their hard earned money to buy their biggest assets of 69 00:03:20,375 --> 00:03:24,235 Speaker 2: their life, their HDB flats. So at the very basic, 70 00:03:24,244 --> 00:03:28,184 Speaker 2: you should have some access to public transportations, right? The 71 00:03:28,195 --> 00:03:30,225 Speaker 2: buses should be running. Maybe the MRT station is still 72 00:03:30,235 --> 00:03:32,395 Speaker 2: under construction, but the buses should be running. 73 00:03:32,660 --> 00:03:35,259 Speaker 2: There is some basic shops or clinics, you know health 74 00:03:35,270 --> 00:03:38,570 Speaker 2: care services. But the response, at least from the authorities 75 00:03:38,580 --> 00:03:40,759 Speaker 2: I've heard is that oh, they can actually take the 76 00:03:40,770 --> 00:03:44,250 Speaker 2: public transportation to nearby towns like for example, Choa Chu 77 00:03:44,410 --> 00:03:47,389 Speaker 2: Kang or take the train to Jurong East there, you 78 00:03:47,399 --> 00:03:49,860 Speaker 2: got your shopping malls and so on. But from their 79 00:03:49,869 --> 00:03:54,130 Speaker 2: experience of developing Punggol which is a Greenfield site and 80 00:03:54,139 --> 00:03:56,089 Speaker 2: now you have a very big Greenfield site at 10. 81 00:03:56,679 --> 00:03:56,919 Speaker 2: They 82 00:03:57,005 --> 00:03:59,985 Speaker 2: should have learned from that experience and get some of 83 00:03:59,996 --> 00:04:03,455 Speaker 2: the shops and transportation ready fair. Some of the bus 84 00:04:03,466 --> 00:04:05,686 Speaker 2: stops are not built where the residents will feel it 85 00:04:05,695 --> 00:04:08,636 Speaker 2: more convenient, but those are remedied very quickly. I think 86 00:04:08,645 --> 00:04:10,945 Speaker 2: in the defense of the town planners is that they 87 00:04:10,955 --> 00:04:14,305 Speaker 2: respond quite quickly. It's maybe a question of incentive if 88 00:04:14,315 --> 00:04:16,585 Speaker 2: I can maybe give cheaper rent to the shops for 89 00:04:16,596 --> 00:04:19,015 Speaker 2: the first six months, maybe for the buses, I can 90 00:04:19,026 --> 00:04:21,276 Speaker 2: provide a shuttle service that is free for the first 91 00:04:21,462 --> 00:04:24,171 Speaker 2: three months. Little things like that to help people tide 92 00:04:24,182 --> 00:04:26,911 Speaker 2: over that transitional period. And a lot of it is 93 00:04:26,921 --> 00:04:29,752 Speaker 2: about managing expectations. One to ask, why not do all 94 00:04:29,761 --> 00:04:31,451 Speaker 2: of that here? Have they not done it? I mean 95 00:04:31,462 --> 00:04:34,201 Speaker 2: is that why people are so upset they have. But 96 00:04:34,212 --> 00:04:37,842 Speaker 2: the thing is that it's a multi agency effort, right? 97 00:04:37,851 --> 00:04:40,611 Speaker 2: People are very often point the finger at HDB because 98 00:04:40,622 --> 00:04:43,801 Speaker 2: that is their first point of contact. But HDB has 99 00:04:43,812 --> 00:04:45,601 Speaker 2: subcontractors and they have to deal with 100 00:04:45,697 --> 00:04:49,436 Speaker 2: LT and other departments that basically have to put all 101 00:04:49,447 --> 00:04:52,666 Speaker 2: the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together and sometimes the 102 00:04:52,678 --> 00:04:55,778 Speaker 2: pieces might not arrive in time or might not go 103 00:04:55,787 --> 00:04:57,667 Speaker 2: in the right place. And I'll say also you've done 104 00:04:57,678 --> 00:05:00,358 Speaker 2: this so many times before you built so many new towns. 105 00:05:00,368 --> 00:05:03,608 Speaker 2: We did speak to a resident, Mr Satish Kumar who 106 00:05:03,618 --> 00:05:05,638 Speaker 2: is moving in soon and we want to hear what 107 00:05:05,648 --> 00:05:08,097 Speaker 2: he had to say. Listen in the biggest issue that 108 00:05:08,108 --> 00:05:09,947 Speaker 2: I had was transportation. The 109 00:05:10,044 --> 00:05:12,794 Speaker 2: need for a feeder service to at least bring us 110 00:05:12,803 --> 00:05:15,544 Speaker 2: out of the area was important to me. I do 111 00:05:15,553 --> 00:05:19,584 Speaker 2: understand that this is absolutely new town that created from scratch. 112 00:05:19,843 --> 00:05:22,074 Speaker 2: It will take time to see some sort of development 113 00:05:22,084 --> 00:05:25,993 Speaker 2: for me. The basic things were really important. Yeah, that's 114 00:05:26,003 --> 00:05:28,984 Speaker 2: a fair statement, the basic thing. So you just maybe 115 00:05:28,993 --> 00:05:31,584 Speaker 2: a bus that can take me to the nearest more 116 00:05:31,593 --> 00:05:34,134 Speaker 2: civilized town there for the time being. You know, 117 00:05:34,690 --> 00:05:38,049 Speaker 2: that is something as Nicholas has mentioned this multi-agency planning 118 00:05:38,059 --> 00:05:40,928 Speaker 2: of the roads not necessarily within the ambit of HDB. 119 00:05:41,369 --> 00:05:43,868 Speaker 2: And as we remember, there was a huge demand for 120 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,299 Speaker 2: the keys to be handed over. So and the nearest 121 00:05:46,309 --> 00:05:49,100 Speaker 2: town is Bukit Batok, which is why they released plantation 122 00:05:49,109 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 2: estate first. But there are difficulties with that connectivity because 123 00:05:52,890 --> 00:05:54,308 Speaker 2: it's new, it's so far away. 124 00:05:54,619 --> 00:05:57,820 Speaker 2: So going forward, I think managing the expectations is going 125 00:05:57,829 --> 00:06:00,500 Speaker 2: to be quite important of the new homeowners. So it 126 00:06:00,510 --> 00:06:02,500 Speaker 2: sounds like a lot of it is just managing expectations. 127 00:06:02,510 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: And in fact, Senior Minister of State Amy Court did 128 00:06:04,488 --> 00:06:07,518 Speaker 2: say that infrastructure work and accessibility is going to be 129 00:06:07,529 --> 00:06:10,079 Speaker 2: out of sync for a short while, how short or 130 00:06:10,089 --> 00:06:11,989 Speaker 2: how long we don't know, but we do know that 131 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 2: things get competed in stages. 132 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,809 Speaker 2: And it's true. I think people know that not everything 133 00:06:16,820 --> 00:06:20,289 Speaker 2: will work, but the question is, are people's expectations out 134 00:06:20,299 --> 00:06:23,899 Speaker 2: of sync with reality? Are we expecting too much as 135 00:06:23,910 --> 00:06:26,100 Speaker 2: Singaporeans when I move into a new town? It's a 136 00:06:26,109 --> 00:06:29,269 Speaker 2: bit rare that we have actually a totally green field 137 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,820 Speaker 2: new town other than pol, many of the other HDB 138 00:06:32,829 --> 00:06:36,109 Speaker 2: flats are actually built. They may be called non mature estates, 139 00:06:36,119 --> 00:06:38,380 Speaker 2: but actually it's the existing functioning estate, 140 00:06:38,863 --> 00:06:42,214 Speaker 2: right? It could be Seng Kang. It could be even 141 00:06:42,225 --> 00:06:46,804 Speaker 2: places like Pasir Ris. You already got malls, schools, transport system, 142 00:06:46,815 --> 00:06:49,075 Speaker 2: everything is brand new, it's not brand new. So a 143 00:06:49,385 --> 00:06:52,845 Speaker 2: desert into a city. Yes. And sometimes you might also 144 00:06:52,855 --> 00:06:56,315 Speaker 2: have people who are new in the civil service. The 145 00:06:56,325 --> 00:06:59,924 Speaker 2: same team that actually manage the development of POL may 146 00:06:59,934 --> 00:07:02,894 Speaker 2: not be the same team that's doing. And to add 147 00:07:02,904 --> 00:07:03,274 Speaker 2: on the neck 148 00:07:03,500 --> 00:07:06,119 Speaker 2: 0.1 of the more recent estates that were completed. Abita 149 00:07:06,369 --> 00:07:08,850 Speaker 2: Dari is walking distance to Potong Pasir. So it's a 150 00:07:08,859 --> 00:07:12,429 Speaker 2: very different kind of setup. It's not so disconnected as 151 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,070 Speaker 2: compared to a brand new Greenfield development. Yeah, I mean, 152 00:07:15,079 --> 00:07:17,420 Speaker 2: so I really think about 10. Sounds like this desert 153 00:07:17,429 --> 00:07:19,609 Speaker 2: that we are transforming into a city like building Las 154 00:07:19,619 --> 00:07:22,049 Speaker 2: Vegas when it was just a desert. Well, I think 155 00:07:22,059 --> 00:07:24,799 Speaker 2: previously it was 10 is always associated with the Tenga 156 00:07:24,980 --> 00:07:28,049 Speaker 2: air base. There's a few chicken farms there. Other than that, 157 00:07:28,144 --> 00:07:30,475 Speaker 2: it is basically all green, you know, let's move it 158 00:07:30,484 --> 00:07:32,684 Speaker 2: and talk about what is actually the biggest bug bear 159 00:07:32,695 --> 00:07:34,654 Speaker 2: for many tenga residents out there. And that's the central 160 00:07:34,665 --> 00:07:38,394 Speaker 2: cooling system for our listeners who don't know, unlike air conditioners, 161 00:07:38,404 --> 00:07:41,325 Speaker 2: this is a system that works by piping chilled water 162 00:07:41,334 --> 00:07:44,225 Speaker 2: from centralized chillers to homes. So it's meant to be 163 00:07:44,234 --> 00:07:47,024 Speaker 2: a solution that is more energy efficient than conventional air 164 00:07:47,035 --> 00:07:50,894 Speaker 2: conditioning systems and supposed to be more environmentally friendly and 165 00:07:50,904 --> 00:07:52,765 Speaker 2: also cheaper in the long term. 166 00:07:53,010 --> 00:07:55,059 Speaker 2: It is not new. We've seen it still being used 167 00:07:55,070 --> 00:07:58,670 Speaker 2: successfully in Marina Bay sands, but clearly there are still 168 00:07:58,679 --> 00:08:01,670 Speaker 2: other issues. And we had a resident Mitchell. E you 169 00:08:01,679 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: hear her talk about getting news of water leakages from 170 00:08:04,209 --> 00:08:07,609 Speaker 2: the defects inspection team. Let's listen in, I think the 171 00:08:07,779 --> 00:08:11,799 Speaker 2: end of last year, the first home owners collected their 172 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: keys and that was very 173 00:08:14,420 --> 00:08:17,869 Speaker 2: found out that CCS wasn't very cold and came with 174 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 2: some leakages on the 13th of February BS C team 175 00:08:22,609 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: called my husband to inform him that they found a 176 00:08:26,209 --> 00:08:29,470 Speaker 2: leakage in my unit. It was because they entered my 177 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,179 Speaker 2: unit to perform the defect rectification. That's when they found 178 00:08:33,190 --> 00:08:35,969 Speaker 2: out that one of the bedroom was actually flooded. We 179 00:08:35,979 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 2: had no idea how come this leakage actually happened. 180 00:08:39,570 --> 00:08:42,289 Speaker 2: And we were quite apprehensive in the sense that we 181 00:08:42,299 --> 00:08:45,419 Speaker 2: are worried that what happens if we were to go 182 00:08:45,429 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: overseas next time and then we come back to packages 183 00:08:49,789 --> 00:08:53,349 Speaker 2: to a unit and it's like it doesn't give you 184 00:08:53,359 --> 00:08:57,799 Speaker 2: any warning, you know, so we decided to just remove 185 00:08:57,809 --> 00:09:01,659 Speaker 2: this CCS. Yeah. So of course, like any homeowner, you 186 00:09:01,669 --> 00:09:04,590 Speaker 2: would hate to come back and see a flooded home, right? 187 00:09:04,940 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: According to M and these issues came about because there 188 00:09:07,770 --> 00:09:11,919 Speaker 2: was insufficient time for comprehensive testing and commissioning by SP 189 00:09:11,929 --> 00:09:15,130 Speaker 2: group before key collection. They are saying this is because 190 00:09:15,140 --> 00:09:17,799 Speaker 2: of many delays during the pandemic SP Group has also 191 00:09:17,809 --> 00:09:20,619 Speaker 2: come out to say that condensation issues are actually not 192 00:09:20,630 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 2: unique to 193 00:09:21,929 --> 00:09:25,030 Speaker 2: the CCS system or to turn out. In fact, HDB 194 00:09:25,039 --> 00:09:28,650 Speaker 2: receives an average of 715 cases of feedback per year 195 00:09:28,659 --> 00:09:32,929 Speaker 2: on condensation in conventional air con. So is it just 196 00:09:32,940 --> 00:09:35,739 Speaker 2: a question of time that these things perhaps will rush, 197 00:09:36,119 --> 00:09:38,858 Speaker 2: they weren't tested enough if we had given more time, 198 00:09:38,869 --> 00:09:41,689 Speaker 2: everything would have been ok. Is that a fair statement? 199 00:09:41,789 --> 00:09:45,218 Speaker 2: It's a combination of a few bad things all happening together, 200 00:09:45,229 --> 00:09:49,098 Speaker 2: you know, pandemic shortage of workers and then the government 201 00:09:49,109 --> 00:09:52,020 Speaker 2: also wants to help to cool the market and issue 202 00:09:52,030 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: out the keys are fast enough so that people don't 203 00:09:54,289 --> 00:09:55,260 Speaker 2: say that. Wow. I had to 204 00:09:55,364 --> 00:09:58,695 Speaker 2: like so long to get my flats. And another reason 205 00:09:58,705 --> 00:10:00,924 Speaker 2: is that HDB has been handing out keys a bit 206 00:10:00,934 --> 00:10:04,405 Speaker 2: earlier to the owners so that they can renovate their 207 00:10:04,414 --> 00:10:07,304 Speaker 2: place earlier. But is it a disconnect? You want to 208 00:10:07,315 --> 00:10:09,275 Speaker 2: cool the market, so to speak? But then you end 209 00:10:09,284 --> 00:10:11,755 Speaker 2: up not cooling anything and that is a bigger problem. 210 00:10:11,765 --> 00:10:14,544 Speaker 2: People become hot under the collar and a bit more upset, 211 00:10:14,809 --> 00:10:17,270 Speaker 2: right? Because imagine you're renovating, you're moving in and you 212 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,909 Speaker 2: can't have a cool home, you feel uncomfortable, right? And unhappy. 213 00:10:20,969 --> 00:10:23,229 Speaker 2: The scale of TGA is also another issue. There's a 214 00:10:23,239 --> 00:10:26,189 Speaker 2: lot more units to build compared to Marina Bay sands, 215 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,229 Speaker 2: it's a much larger project. Perhaps another thing is that 216 00:10:29,239 --> 00:10:31,890 Speaker 2: lack of time to do all the testing because if 217 00:10:31,900 --> 00:10:34,968 Speaker 2: let's say the system works in the Marina Bay area 218 00:10:34,979 --> 00:10:36,030 Speaker 2: quite well, we are talking 219 00:10:36,119 --> 00:10:38,819 Speaker 2: but a few big buildings, you pipe the chill water 220 00:10:38,830 --> 00:10:42,020 Speaker 2: there and then the engineers that's working for the landlords, 221 00:10:42,030 --> 00:10:45,700 Speaker 2: they will manage that. But here HDB and SP has 222 00:10:45,710 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 2: to manage every single flat. So, so you have many, 223 00:10:49,090 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 2: many other customers to deal with. Essentially if they want 224 00:10:52,090 --> 00:10:53,900 Speaker 2: to make sure everything is working, they have to test 225 00:10:53,909 --> 00:10:55,799 Speaker 2: run the system and not switch on the air con 226 00:10:55,809 --> 00:10:57,340 Speaker 2: for every flat in every room. 227 00:10:57,599 --> 00:10:59,468 Speaker 2: I don't think they may have the manpower to do 228 00:10:59,479 --> 00:11:02,059 Speaker 2: all the time to do that. But then to the 229 00:11:02,070 --> 00:11:04,090 Speaker 2: new owners or to the layman listening is, is saying 230 00:11:04,099 --> 00:11:06,799 Speaker 2: you've used this system before it works at M BS. 231 00:11:07,109 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: So why doesn't it work here? It's not like it's 232 00:11:09,289 --> 00:11:12,010 Speaker 2: a new system. You've tried using it before. I know 233 00:11:12,020 --> 00:11:13,669 Speaker 2: you guys may not be able to answer this. But 234 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,569 Speaker 2: from my understanding is not really the same system and 235 00:11:16,580 --> 00:11:19,059 Speaker 2: M BS is running all the time everywhere, all the 236 00:11:19,070 --> 00:11:19,460 Speaker 2: time 237 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:22,570 Speaker 2: here with the unit, some can have it, some may 238 00:11:22,580 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 2: choose not to have it. I guess with N Bs, 239 00:11:24,450 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: there was more of a luxury of time in building 240 00:11:26,530 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: that development. It was not a pandemic, it was time 241 00:11:29,090 --> 00:11:32,330 Speaker 2: to test everything and here with the compressed timeline, some 242 00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:34,650 Speaker 2: of the testing had to be done in tandem and 243 00:11:34,659 --> 00:11:37,669 Speaker 2: like what Nicholas has mentioned, manpower shortages. It's very hard 244 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,039 Speaker 2: to make sure that everything is comprehensively tested. Ok. So 245 00:11:41,049 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: then comes the question of who should pay for it. 246 00:11:43,010 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 2: All this is happening. Residents are saying I have incurred 247 00:11:45,330 --> 00:11:46,950 Speaker 2: cost in fixing some of these problems. 248 00:11:47,309 --> 00:11:49,618 Speaker 2: They want part if not all of it to be absorbed. 249 00:11:49,630 --> 00:11:52,210 Speaker 2: SP Group has said it will waive all CS usage 250 00:11:52,219 --> 00:11:55,218 Speaker 2: charges until the end of the year, reduce charges from 251 00:11:55,229 --> 00:11:57,820 Speaker 2: January 1st. In fact, it said that residents can also 252 00:11:57,830 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 2: cancel the installation of the system 253 00:11:59,909 --> 00:12:02,690 Speaker 2: and they are reducing the cast station charges as well. 254 00:12:02,820 --> 00:12:05,619 Speaker 2: Is that going to help manage expectations? I think they 255 00:12:05,630 --> 00:12:07,869 Speaker 2: are hoping that the residents will meet them halfway if 256 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,450 Speaker 2: let's say they say, oh, well, it's going to be 257 00:12:09,460 --> 00:12:12,830 Speaker 2: free for all with the authorities will absorb all the cost. 258 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,109 Speaker 2: Then the next thing is that you might open a 259 00:12:15,119 --> 00:12:18,750 Speaker 2: floodgate of a lot of cancellations. I would imagine there 260 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,140 Speaker 2: would be a minimum number of household 261 00:12:21,364 --> 00:12:23,704 Speaker 2: block that need to subscribe to this system to make 262 00:12:23,715 --> 00:12:27,375 Speaker 2: it cost efficient. Right. Yeah. So if too many people cancel, 263 00:12:27,385 --> 00:12:29,594 Speaker 2: then in the end, I may not be able to 264 00:12:29,604 --> 00:12:32,744 Speaker 2: live up to his label or being green. Yeah, that's true. 265 00:12:33,075 --> 00:12:34,973 Speaker 2: Nick Sp Group has also been up front to say 266 00:12:34,984 --> 00:12:38,085 Speaker 2: the issues and they are working with it. But some 267 00:12:38,094 --> 00:12:40,505 Speaker 2: residents like Mitchell with her earlier saying they want out 268 00:12:40,515 --> 00:12:42,744 Speaker 2: of the system because it's just too troublesome 269 00:12:43,210 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 2: in the long term. You've just mentioned that it may 270 00:12:45,450 --> 00:12:47,868 Speaker 2: not be as effective if many people opt out, will 271 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,130 Speaker 2: this also affect the overall resale prices of the units 272 00:12:52,140 --> 00:12:54,919 Speaker 2: and the areas one block more than another because one 273 00:12:54,929 --> 00:12:57,510 Speaker 2: block has more units using it. One block doesn't because 274 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: this is something new. This is the first time that 275 00:12:59,820 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: HDB is installing such a cooling system in an entire town. 276 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,630 Speaker 2: So there has been no other precedents or examples, but 277 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,710 Speaker 2: I will imagine it should not unless 278 00:13:09,833 --> 00:13:13,473 Speaker 2: the system keep giving problems. If this new system keep 279 00:13:13,482 --> 00:13:17,393 Speaker 2: giving problems, the buyer will mentally put in a discount. 280 00:13:17,403 --> 00:13:21,533 Speaker 2: You know, I wouldn't be paying you $700,000. Instead I 281 00:13:21,543 --> 00:13:25,893 Speaker 2: may knock off maybe 10% or 5% just in case 282 00:13:25,903 --> 00:13:27,723 Speaker 2: I have to come up with more money to repair 283 00:13:27,732 --> 00:13:31,033 Speaker 2: the system. But I think that over time and of course, 284 00:13:31,043 --> 00:13:34,083 Speaker 2: the SP team and HDB team are gaining experience. The 285 00:13:34,093 --> 00:13:36,413 Speaker 2: next few badges of the flats may 286 00:13:36,885 --> 00:13:40,395 Speaker 2: less problems. This is where sometimes being the first mover 287 00:13:40,405 --> 00:13:43,325 Speaker 2: may not really give you the advantage for home buyers 288 00:13:43,335 --> 00:13:46,026 Speaker 2: to answer your question. No, I don't think there would 289 00:13:46,035 --> 00:13:50,106 Speaker 2: be much difference whether you use the central cooling system 290 00:13:50,116 --> 00:13:54,546 Speaker 2: or traditional Air con for this because most people associate 291 00:13:54,556 --> 00:13:56,226 Speaker 2: the two as it is just air con. You know, 292 00:13:56,236 --> 00:13:58,825 Speaker 2: as long as they don't give me problems, maintenance or 293 00:13:58,835 --> 00:14:01,795 Speaker 2: extra costs. But if this CCS system keeps getting a 294 00:14:01,806 --> 00:14:03,265 Speaker 2: lot of bad press, then 295 00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: people will say, oh, you have a CCS. No, I 296 00:14:05,530 --> 00:14:07,150 Speaker 2: don't want that. I don't think it's going to work. 297 00:14:07,169 --> 00:14:08,968 Speaker 2: There are a whole bunch of new other H DB 298 00:14:08,979 --> 00:14:11,089 Speaker 2: flats coming up, a lot of them from Bay Shore 299 00:14:11,099 --> 00:14:13,580 Speaker 2: Mount Pleasant. What do you think we can learn from Tenga? 300 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,429 Speaker 2: So do you think this is going to be something 301 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,250 Speaker 2: that H DB and SP will approach differently when building 302 00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:21,539 Speaker 2: these other new towns? There's definitely a lot to learn. 303 00:14:21,549 --> 00:14:24,169 Speaker 2: We can think of 10 as an initial test for 304 00:14:24,179 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: the CCS system. And we can imagine that as we 305 00:14:26,770 --> 00:14:28,030 Speaker 2: go along our green plan, 306 00:14:28,380 --> 00:14:30,020 Speaker 2: we want to be low carbon, we want to reduce 307 00:14:30,030 --> 00:14:32,659 Speaker 2: energy usage. The CCS is going to be an option 308 00:14:32,669 --> 00:14:35,369 Speaker 2: that other future estates will have to consider. So this 309 00:14:35,380 --> 00:14:37,359 Speaker 2: is a good opportunity for us to iron out the 310 00:14:37,369 --> 00:14:40,590 Speaker 2: kings to figure out where things might mess up and 311 00:14:40,599 --> 00:14:43,140 Speaker 2: to pre empt these problems in other developments. So, if 312 00:14:43,150 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: I'm a homeowner now, I'm thinking it a new town, 313 00:14:46,210 --> 00:14:48,700 Speaker 2: they're trying new things, but I'm almost thinking maybe I 314 00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:51,099 Speaker 2: don't want to be in such a new town. Can 315 00:14:51,109 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: I be the second new town after they've tried the 316 00:14:53,530 --> 00:14:56,309 Speaker 2: CCS somewhere else first? But most of the time when 317 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 2: it comes to BT O applications, 318 00:14:58,299 --> 00:15:01,849 Speaker 2: the proximity to the MRT Station or LRT Station is 319 00:15:01,859 --> 00:15:06,450 Speaker 2: usually determines how popular that project is, right? Perhaps also 320 00:15:06,460 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: the authorities can learn from this experience is that when 321 00:15:09,890 --> 00:15:12,770 Speaker 2: you build a new town, the key things that must 322 00:15:12,780 --> 00:15:14,609 Speaker 2: be running by the time you start issuing out the 323 00:15:14,619 --> 00:15:17,619 Speaker 2: keys is public transportation, at least the buses. And the 324 00:15:17,630 --> 00:15:20,500 Speaker 2: other thing is perhaps they should also get the supermarket 325 00:15:20,510 --> 00:15:24,090 Speaker 2: running first, right? Because the supermarket can be the key 326 00:15:24,099 --> 00:15:27,729 Speaker 2: anchor tenant in a development once the supermarket is 327 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:30,340 Speaker 2: all the other shops see that. Well, you've got customers. 328 00:15:30,349 --> 00:15:32,340 Speaker 2: I also want to open up my shops near the 329 00:15:32,349 --> 00:15:36,210 Speaker 2: supermarket or around the supermarket. So yes, perhaps they can 330 00:15:36,229 --> 00:15:39,690 Speaker 2: hold the tender issue the license to operate the supermarket 331 00:15:39,789 --> 00:15:42,479 Speaker 2: and get it going the moment that the first batch 332 00:15:42,489 --> 00:15:44,150 Speaker 2: of the keys are given out. That's a good point. 333 00:15:44,159 --> 00:15:46,900 Speaker 2: Incentivize the supermarket to be there first in a way 334 00:15:46,909 --> 00:15:49,900 Speaker 2: is right. So, chicken or egg eggs first because eggs 335 00:15:49,909 --> 00:15:53,049 Speaker 2: in the supermarket. Right. Yes. 10 years from now when 336 00:15:53,059 --> 00:15:55,419 Speaker 2: all this has been forgotten, people have moved in living 337 00:15:55,429 --> 00:15:57,460 Speaker 2: happily everything. All the shops are there. 338 00:15:57,940 --> 00:16:00,950 Speaker 2: Well, people have forgotten as long as property prices rise. 339 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,239 Speaker 2: Do you think you all to be just like? Oh yeah, 340 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:05,869 Speaker 2: I think so long as the systems work, we get 341 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,789 Speaker 2: the things up and running. Everyone is comfortable, happy, people 342 00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:11,190 Speaker 2: will more or less forget over time about all these 343 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: initial teething problems and all of us who have ever 344 00:16:13,849 --> 00:16:16,599 Speaker 2: bought a new home. We face all sorts of teething problems, 345 00:16:16,650 --> 00:16:19,570 Speaker 2: whether it's in the estate, in our renovations over time. 346 00:16:19,580 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: These things just fade into the background. 347 00:16:21,645 --> 00:16:23,325 Speaker 2: But the important thing is that the town needs to 348 00:16:23,335 --> 00:16:26,065 Speaker 2: keep functioning well for the long term. And as long 349 00:16:26,075 --> 00:16:28,685 Speaker 2: as property prices rise and don't drop, I think then 350 00:16:28,695 --> 00:16:30,625 Speaker 2: everyone will be happy. I think a lot of people 351 00:16:30,635 --> 00:16:34,716 Speaker 2: forgotten about some of the complaints or even horror stories 352 00:16:34,726 --> 00:16:36,786 Speaker 2: that came up from pol when it first came out. 353 00:16:36,916 --> 00:16:40,195 Speaker 2: One article described it as a ghost town because the 354 00:16:40,205 --> 00:16:43,176 Speaker 2: government was actually building a ahead of demand, anticipating a 355 00:16:43,185 --> 00:16:44,796 Speaker 2: lot of demand. And then there was 356 00:16:44,892 --> 00:16:47,702 Speaker 2: the Asian financial crisis and so on. So there were 357 00:16:47,711 --> 00:16:50,331 Speaker 2: blocks of flats around Punggol where you only see a 358 00:16:50,341 --> 00:16:52,711 Speaker 2: couple of lights on at night. But right now, all 359 00:16:52,721 --> 00:16:55,072 Speaker 2: this is forgotten. The first batch of residents had the 360 00:16:55,081 --> 00:16:59,271 Speaker 2: same complaints. No wet market, no supermarket transportation are not 361 00:16:59,281 --> 00:17:01,831 Speaker 2: accessible et cetera. Now, it is one of the most 362 00:17:01,841 --> 00:17:05,031 Speaker 2: popular town if and when HDB offers another BT O 363 00:17:05,041 --> 00:17:08,232 Speaker 2: project at Bongo, one that is nearer to the town center, 364 00:17:08,588 --> 00:17:11,279 Speaker 2: the subscription rate will be very high. It is true. 365 00:17:11,288 --> 00:17:13,288 Speaker 2: I think it's really just a matter of expecting that. 366 00:17:13,298 --> 00:17:15,208 Speaker 2: We know that there are teething problems. We know that 367 00:17:15,218 --> 00:17:17,308 Speaker 2: it was a new town. There will be issues just 368 00:17:17,318 --> 00:17:19,918 Speaker 2: like when you renovate your home no matter how well 369 00:17:19,928 --> 00:17:21,548 Speaker 2: the guy does it, there will always be something that 370 00:17:21,558 --> 00:17:23,968 Speaker 2: bugs you. There will always be something you're not satisfied with. 371 00:17:24,499 --> 00:17:26,717 Speaker 2: But the central cooling system there is a big issue 372 00:17:26,729 --> 00:17:29,848 Speaker 2: because if that is your main air con so to speak. 373 00:17:29,859 --> 00:17:31,688 Speaker 2: And I think really, we've been facing a lot of 374 00:17:31,698 --> 00:17:34,968 Speaker 2: hot weather recently. If people are hot, they are uncomfortable, 375 00:17:34,979 --> 00:17:36,688 Speaker 2: they're grumpy and they get upset 376 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 2: and they will probably contain more than if they were 377 00:17:38,969 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 2: in a cooler environment for all of you listening in. 378 00:17:41,530 --> 00:17:43,430 Speaker 2: If you have comments about this issue, we want to 379 00:17:43,439 --> 00:17:45,500 Speaker 2: hear from you too. You can find me on social 380 00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:49,020 Speaker 2: media or you can email us at CN podcasts at 381 00:17:49,030 --> 00:17:52,300 Speaker 2: media corp.com dot SG and also a shout out to 382 00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:56,469 Speaker 2: the CN A podcast teams win. Tiffany Juani Johari, Joan 383 00:17:56,479 --> 00:18:00,709 Speaker 2: Chan and Christina Robert. Our sound designer is Ken Delbridge 384 00:18:00,719 --> 00:18:02,449 Speaker 2: and I'm Steven Ch saying bye for now.