WEBVTT - What’s a 'greenfluencer' and what do they do in championing climate action? | EP 49 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:07.500 The following is a C and a podcast. I'm Jamie 0:00:07.500 --> 0:00:11.760 Hoh and welcome back to the climate conversations we've all 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.400 heard about Greta Thunberg and what she's done to put 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.709 climate change on the front and center. She was just 0:00:16.710 --> 0:00:19.650 15 when she staged a protest for climate action outside 0:00:19.650 --> 0:00:23.250 the Swedish parliament in Stockholm in 2018. Now there are 0:00:23.250 --> 0:00:26.520 hundreds of youth led movements globally. Singapore had won two 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:30.210 in 2019 as G Climate Rally organized the country's first 0:00:30.210 --> 0:00:32.940 such rally, which was attended by two thousand passionate people 0:00:32.940 --> 0:00:36.479 who wanted greater climate action. COVID 19 may have put 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.390 a damper on physical rallies for now, but activists have 0:00:39.390 --> 0:00:43.860 a powerful medium. Social media, of course. In 2020, ESG 0:00:43.860 --> 0:00:47.550 Climate Rally launched a virtual campaign called Take Back 2050, 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.000 which invited people to share their vision of a sustainable Singapore. 0:00:51.390 --> 0:00:54.990 Other activists use social media to break down complex climate issues, 0:00:54.990 --> 0:00:59.580 promote local grassroots events and even engage climate scientists in livestreams. 0:00:59.790 --> 0:01:03.180 But how effective are social media platforms in raising awareness 0:01:03.180 --> 0:01:06.420 and inspiring greater action? How do young activists track the 0:01:06.420 --> 0:01:10.140 impact that they're really convert naysayers, or are they preaching 0:01:10.140 --> 0:01:14.210 to the choir? With me today is environmental activist whichI, 0:01:14.230 --> 0:01:17.250 and she runs the Instagram page, The Weird and Wild, 0:01:17.250 --> 0:01:20.910 where she educates people on all things environmental through illustrations, 0:01:20.910 --> 0:01:22.440 infographics and more. 0:01:22.620 --> 0:01:25.230 Jian, welcome. Hi, thanks for having me. 0:01:25.420 --> 0:01:27.060 Now I'm going to get to the first question. Yeah, 0:01:27.270 --> 0:01:29.790 we've actually seen that you said before. They've always been 0:01:29.790 --> 0:01:32.880 interested in nature growing up and specifically, you are huge. 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.240 Steve Irwin fan. How did you go from being interested 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.720 in the environment and nature to actively actually advocating for 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.730 it to be right to all your followers? 0:01:41.850 --> 0:01:44.970 For example, it was an entire journey, considering that I 0:01:44.970 --> 0:01:47.640 don't think I ever imagined myself to be where I 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.850 am today as a kid. Growing up, my parents used 0:01:50.850 --> 0:01:54.000 to force me to read the newspaper just to improve 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.570 my English. The only thing that I gravitated towards was 0:01:57.570 --> 0:02:01.290 small snippets in my relevant newspapers that were making me, 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.860 and I only wanted to read about animals. And that 0:02:04.860 --> 0:02:07.890 led me to read a lot about deforestation. I watched 0:02:07.890 --> 0:02:10.919 a lot of Animal Planet. Steve Irwin was always on. 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.990 Seeing other people advocate for the environment eventually got me 0:02:15.990 --> 0:02:18.750 to think about it when I could see it and 0:02:18.750 --> 0:02:22.080 what I could do. So growing up, I was always volunteering, 0:02:22.380 --> 0:02:24.180 but I think it was only when I was in 0:02:24.180 --> 0:02:27.450 uni that I decided, you know, why not do something 0:02:27.450 --> 0:02:29.910 on social media because I was a very visual person? 0:02:30.450 --> 0:02:34.020 And I decided to have my hand in illustrating environmental 0:02:34.020 --> 0:02:36.690 news because I was like, You know, I think you 0:02:36.700 --> 0:02:41.430 might have seen enough of ice caps melting very typical pictures. 0:02:41.430 --> 0:02:43.589 And why don't I just try something else? 0:02:44.010 --> 0:02:47.700 I wanted to talk about immediate situation right now in 0:02:47.700 --> 0:02:50.730 Singapore and around the world as well, whether it was 0:02:50.730 --> 0:02:53.870 Greta Thunberg starting her school strikes a couple of years ago. 0:02:54.540 --> 0:02:57.929 Young people have always been organizing events on climate change 0:02:57.930 --> 0:03:01.290 and climate action. We also had our first climate rally 0:03:01.290 --> 0:03:05.460 in 2019. Looking at COVID 19, though, do you think 0:03:05.820 --> 0:03:09.510 that has therefore dampened the momentum in terms of activism 0:03:09.510 --> 0:03:13.710 and engagement, especially we have Glasgow coming up. Do you 0:03:13.710 --> 0:03:17.510 think things have changed? Firstly, locally? And as you look internationally, 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:18.180 what's your sense 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.930 starting out in COVID? I was concerned about the kind 0:03:21.930 --> 0:03:24.780 of attention that climate issues were going to get because 0:03:25.139 --> 0:03:27.540 at the end of 2019, things started to get a 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.389 little bit more interesting, with more and more youth coming 0:03:30.389 --> 0:03:33.389 out to talk about environmental issues. And I mean, Kobe 0:03:33.389 --> 0:03:38.550 came in paradise, surprisingly got even more clear and everybody 0:03:38.550 --> 0:03:41.250 started to step up, I guess a lot more in 0:03:41.250 --> 0:03:44.190 terms of climate issues. And you know, there were so 0:03:44.190 --> 0:03:48.680 many new sites covering climate issues, companies looking to declare 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.740 a net zero and the kind of coverage I would've 0:03:51.750 --> 0:03:55.170 never imagined it ever in my life in the past. 0:03:55.500 --> 0:03:57.960 Strange times used to only run like a half page 0:03:57.970 --> 0:04:01.590 on less on climate change, and now it's everywhere. I 0:04:01.590 --> 0:04:05.880 would say that it's been nice to see environmental issues 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.630 gain momentum, surprisingly, because I don't think people really expected it. 0:04:10.140 --> 0:04:13.090 And also the fact that I did environmental studies in 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.320 English and UC and we were always saying, you know, 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.200 they're going to have no jobs, nobody wants to hire us. 0:04:19.710 --> 0:04:23.760 And now finally, sustainability is everywhere. So I was like, 0:04:24.270 --> 0:04:27.599 This is an interesting time for an environmental studies graduate 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.780 to be job hunting, to be looking out and to 0:04:30.779 --> 0:04:32.039 be paying attention to LA. 0:04:32.370 --> 0:04:35.010 Funnily enough, I've spoken to quite a few environmental studies 0:04:35.010 --> 0:04:37.720 graduates now on this podcast. So good for you. Yeah. 0:04:38.290 --> 0:04:41.400 So it's actually interesting to hear that you say basically 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.060 the last 18 to 20 months of COVID 19 has, 0:04:45.060 --> 0:04:48.390 you know, we accelerate the at least action or at 0:04:48.390 --> 0:04:52.170 least public awareness as far as climate change is concerned. 0:04:52.170 --> 0:04:53.070 Is that your assessment? 0:04:53.190 --> 0:04:56.969 Yeah, because I think it's not just about COVID. Unfortunately, 0:04:56.970 --> 0:04:58.679 I think it's a perfect storm of a lot of 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.680 things I remember in early 2018. Just as COVID was 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.710 hitting all of us, it was also where the Australian 0:05:05.710 --> 0:05:09.039 fires got very, very big and then there were fires 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.430 in Thailand. Yeah, the situation didn't really get better, so 0:05:12.430 --> 0:05:15.250 it's almost inevitable that we're talking about climate change. 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.190 But we talked about a bit about your work specifically 0:05:18.190 --> 0:05:21.369 now before I get to larger issues. Just looking at 0:05:21.370 --> 0:05:23.590 your Instagram page, I mean, you've got a whole mix 0:05:23.589 --> 0:05:28.510 of drawings and illustrations, nature photographs. The scope of what 0:05:28.510 --> 0:05:31.140 you talk about seems to be quite large. You have 0:05:31.150 --> 0:05:35.380 sustainable energy, fast fashion. There's even something on impact of 0:05:35.380 --> 0:05:38.979 climate change, on beer production. How do you prioritize? There 0:05:38.980 --> 0:05:41.170 must be a range of issues out there, and there's 0:05:41.170 --> 0:05:43.570 so much to be said. Firstly, yeah, how do you 0:05:43.570 --> 0:05:46.719 prioritize and which ones are closest to your heart? Then personally, 0:05:47.140 --> 0:05:50.440 personally identify as a generalist, which is that I'm interested 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.630 in everything and trying to find out as much as 0:05:52.630 --> 0:05:55.480 I can. It was hard for me to pinpoint my 0:05:56.230 --> 0:06:01.180 energy account a meter, a column. I couldn't decide on 0:06:01.180 --> 0:06:03.099 anyone and I said, You know, I know I just 0:06:03.100 --> 0:06:07.210 talk about everything in terms of priority. I used to 0:06:07.210 --> 0:06:10.089 be very reactionary where, you know, maybe this is the 0:06:10.089 --> 0:06:13.510 biggest news of the day. There will be an issue 0:06:13.510 --> 0:06:16.390 I cover, but I started to realise that it was 0:06:16.390 --> 0:06:20.290 extremely not sustainable in terms of my own energy. It's 0:06:20.290 --> 0:06:23.799 impossible to follow so many things. I used to have 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.220 a board called Moderate Risk keeping on my phone where 0:06:27.220 --> 0:06:30.729 I knocked down things that I found very interesting. Let's 0:06:30.730 --> 0:06:34.239 see if I'm talking about plastic. Is that interesting thought 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.180 process that I came across our conversation I had that 0:06:37.290 --> 0:06:39.970 I wanted to talk about. So I'm trying to focus 0:06:39.970 --> 0:06:45.310 more on reflections and prioritizing what matters to me and 0:06:45.310 --> 0:06:47.650 what I think people should hear, and that's how my 0:06:47.650 --> 0:06:50.440 content goes out. At the same time, it's also what 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:52.839 I think people are interested in because I do get 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.540 a lot of messages. See, can you explain this? Can 0:06:55.540 --> 0:06:58.390 you tell me about this? Can you explain that? There's 0:06:58.390 --> 0:06:59.290 never enough content. 0:06:59.710 --> 0:07:02.349 Typekit a little bit about your style that obviously are 0:07:02.350 --> 0:07:05.370 very visual. I'm sure a lot of what goes on 0:07:05.380 --> 0:07:09.010 behind it. Do you think the visual style the visual 0:07:09.010 --> 0:07:13.420 element helps explain things far better, maybe to a younger audience, 0:07:13.420 --> 0:07:16.150 a different audience coming from the way I am? Is 0:07:16.150 --> 0:07:18.850 it easier for you sometimes to write an essay or 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.760 an op ed or, you know, if not so serious 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.390 something on Facebook or medium itself capturing everything visually? Or 0:07:25.390 --> 0:07:28.030 maybe you think that visual element is the best thing 0:07:28.030 --> 0:07:30.610 and the easiest thing to do for different audiences? 0:07:30.820 --> 0:07:35.680 Visuals are easier to find with something because I feel like, 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.900 let's say, the climate strike. So I know it's the 0:07:37.900 --> 0:07:40.570 one way they document the temperatures of let's see the 0:07:40.570 --> 0:07:44.170 world or a particular country over time. I don't really 0:07:44.170 --> 0:07:46.660 know how someone can put them to work through the 0:07:46.660 --> 0:07:52.090 entire visualization of how temperature has changed over time. There 0:07:52.090 --> 0:07:55.650 are just some things that are easy to explain via 0:07:55.660 --> 0:07:59.350 pictures or via visuals that over text. I sort of 0:07:59.950 --> 0:08:04.090 realized that when I was doing explainers like life-cycle analysis 0:08:04.090 --> 0:08:08.050 on plastics, I can give you like a three paragraphs 0:08:08.050 --> 0:08:12.430 on how the blasting is Chris ship consumed in Singapore 0:08:12.430 --> 0:08:15.430 and disposed off. Or I can just draw you one 0:08:15.430 --> 0:08:19.150 by one square Instagram, you know, showing you exactly the 0:08:19.150 --> 0:08:21.790 entire process. And I think you will get that better 0:08:21.790 --> 0:08:24.370 than sitting down for 15 minutes. One with all these 0:08:24.370 --> 0:08:28.090 jargon use visuals tend to be a lot more attractive. 0:08:28.510 --> 0:08:31.210 And it's funny because I'm working on a separate project 0:08:31.210 --> 0:08:34.569 called Climate Conference, where I'm hoping to visualise a lot 0:08:34.570 --> 0:08:38.859 more things because I think sometimes concepts get too cerebral, 0:08:38.860 --> 0:08:42.640 too theoretical when we're talking or writing about it. But 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.400 once I explain it to you, using visuals, you very 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:49.360 quickly can understand what exactly is, let's say, carbon cycle 0:08:49.630 --> 0:08:53.410 or what exactly the circular economy really means. I see 0:08:53.410 --> 0:08:56.229 a lot of value in visuals. Humans are naturally very 0:08:56.230 --> 0:08:59.620 visual creatures, and I think it's easier to digest an 0:08:59.620 --> 0:09:02.710 image that captures, I guess, a thousand words in this 0:09:02.710 --> 0:09:05.050 case than reading a thousand words itself. 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.600 That's a very interesting way to put it, and I 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:09.640 definitely can agree with you on a lot of that. 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.640 But maybe I'll tap your thinking on this, too. I 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:17.050 wonder whether your intent is to be an activist to 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:21.280 generate action. That's one intent. Then the other intent is 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:26.349 just for information to build awareness understanding. Do you think 0:09:26.350 --> 0:09:30.460 sometimes the visual was the written either one, as you say, 0:09:30.460 --> 0:09:34.270 has its pros and cons because I imagine sometimes the 0:09:34.270 --> 0:09:38.020 visual element doesn't lend itself as well to nuance and 0:09:38.500 --> 0:09:42.520 compromise and tradeoffs. And one thing balancing off the other, 0:09:42.970 --> 0:09:46.030 which you may want for understanding and information did not 0:09:46.030 --> 0:09:48.430 necessarily need for driving activism. 0:09:48.790 --> 0:09:51.340 Yeah, you hit that on under here, which is that 0:09:51.670 --> 0:09:54.430 sometimes it's very hard for me. Let's say I was 0:09:54.429 --> 0:09:57.520 doing a piece explaining, you know, when the oil prices 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.960 dropped below zero dollars and why that occurred and how 0:10:00.970 --> 0:10:04.210 it all. And there were just so many things about 0:10:04.210 --> 0:10:06.760 the economy of all there, the politics of all that, 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.510 but I couldn't possibly capture in 10 Instagram slides. And 0:10:11.530 --> 0:10:13.420 I think sometimes I sit with it and I'm like, 0:10:13.750 --> 0:10:16.530 Oh my gosh, am I simplifying things too much? Yeah, well, 0:10:16.540 --> 0:10:19.090 people lose their context. Then you just share things without 0:10:19.090 --> 0:10:22.330 realizing what's going on. And inevitably, you know, am I 0:10:22.330 --> 0:10:26.449 spreading some kind of misinformation by not presenting the full picture? 0:10:26.540 --> 0:10:30.430 So because of that, there are very strong indications because 0:10:30.790 --> 0:10:33.880 it's easy for visual things to go viral. And once 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.540 that happens, you can really control the narrative any more. 0:10:36.550 --> 0:10:39.820 So this is a big con in trying to visualize 0:10:39.820 --> 0:10:44.170 things because you lose one sometimes, even though maybe people 0:10:44.170 --> 0:10:46.959 might think differently. One of the things that you're doing 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.400 right now is subject to interpretation from anyone they meet. 0:10:51.010 --> 0:10:54.430 That's the eternal conundrum with social media, isn't it? Because 0:10:54.429 --> 0:10:57.370 on the one hand, yes, that's the most effective medium 0:10:57.370 --> 0:11:00.160 that we have now. You have the opportunity to go 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:04.090 viral huge audiences, but it's not necessarily the best thing 0:11:04.420 --> 0:11:08.920 for deep understanding and nuance. I suppose for people like 0:11:08.980 --> 0:11:13.150 you who do have, I imagine, both an activist slant 0:11:13.150 --> 0:11:16.870 as well as Anita. You want to help people understand 0:11:16.870 --> 0:11:19.030 it can be a challenge using social media, isn't it? 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.670 Yeah. But I also would like to see that I 0:11:21.670 --> 0:11:24.640 think there are some things that visuals can capture that 0:11:24.690 --> 0:11:27.730 what cannot. So let's see. You know where there are 0:11:28.030 --> 0:11:30.850 issues that are a little bit more sensitive and requires 0:11:30.850 --> 0:11:35.890 new ones, such as emotions, values, something that also doesn't 0:11:35.890 --> 0:11:39.460 come across as well over text and visuals. When I 0:11:39.460 --> 0:11:43.390 can understand how I can play with emotions, I can 0:11:43.660 --> 0:11:46.810 relate that a lot more on why something is important 0:11:46.900 --> 0:11:48.520 versus saying that it is 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.210 coming from someone who loves political cartoons, for example. I 0:11:52.210 --> 0:11:55.990 think political context and a thousand things which two pages 0:11:55.990 --> 0:12:05.709 couldn't write exactly. I want to talk about your activism 0:12:05.710 --> 0:12:08.470 then and what you've achieved so far. Tell us some 0:12:08.470 --> 0:12:11.260 of the most meaningful outcomes that you've had. Were there 0:12:11.260 --> 0:12:13.210 moments where you said, you guys, Oh my God, what 0:12:13.210 --> 0:12:17.410 I'm doing really does make a difference. One Instagram post can, 0:12:17.410 --> 0:12:19.750 as you say, tell a thousand words and you realize 0:12:19.750 --> 0:12:23.080 people suddenly understand something. How did these moments come to 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.000 you and what do you feel at that time? 0:12:25.390 --> 0:12:28.240 There are definitely some polls that do better than others. 0:12:28.300 --> 0:12:31.330 I tend to use metrics like the number of shares 0:12:31.330 --> 0:12:35.140 on likes that it gets to understand exactly how are 0:12:35.140 --> 0:12:38.500 people feeling about content. The ones that are most rewarding 0:12:38.500 --> 0:12:41.860 is where it leads to some outcome that I probably 0:12:41.860 --> 0:12:45.199 didn't expect. So we'll see. You know, the Australia fire 0:12:45.309 --> 0:12:48.030 was a big one, which is that so many Singaporeans 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.460 stepped up to get very involved. Perhaps, maybe not directly 0:12:51.460 --> 0:12:54.660 from what I was sharing, but everyone was talking about it. 0:12:54.670 --> 0:12:57.780 People in Singapore, when I think things to send overseas, 0:12:57.790 --> 0:13:00.550 there was so much organisation that I was like, Whoa, 0:13:00.550 --> 0:13:03.850 you know? It felt good that perhaps my post could 0:13:03.850 --> 0:13:06.850 have done a little bit more to send people to 0:13:06.850 --> 0:13:11.429 certain organisations or outlets that could have helped. To me, 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:15.400 that was enough in that perhaps I spark that conversation 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.010 that wouldn't have happened. And I think there are some 0:13:18.010 --> 0:13:21.730 things that I had to debunk mainstream narratives. I think 0:13:21.730 --> 0:13:24.430 there was a famous article that came out to see 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.150 single use plastic bags, maybe more environmentally friendly than the 0:13:28.150 --> 0:13:30.760 cotton port. And I just see it is. I probably 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.490 didn't get it all right, but I felt my very 0:13:33.490 --> 0:13:36.490 strong need to see that is quite misleading, and I 0:13:36.490 --> 0:13:39.040 need to tell you why. And I will sit down 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.620 with a chemical engineer friend who brought me down to 0:13:41.620 --> 0:13:44.110 the nitty gritty of what the article said. And I 0:13:44.110 --> 0:13:48.850 do it all up and people are dropping me messages, commenting, saying, Hey, 0:13:48.850 --> 0:13:52.090 this helped to demystify a lot of the science. That 0:13:52.090 --> 0:13:55.579 was very rewarding because at least now I know this 0:13:55.580 --> 0:13:57.940 person is going to be an activist in their own 0:13:57.940 --> 0:14:01.120 right to tell their friends, Hey, you know, this article 0:14:01.150 --> 0:14:03.490 didn't capture the full picture or this is what you 0:14:03.490 --> 0:14:07.330 need to understand. Those would be my best moments when 0:14:07.450 --> 0:14:11.440 people are able to take my resources and use it 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.319 to be activists in their own right because then the 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.069 work is amplified. I guess I'll facilitate that. Is that process. 0:14:18.370 --> 0:14:21.340 I'm going to ask you as well. Obviously, when it 0:14:21.340 --> 0:14:25.330 comes to Instagram specifically and social media in general, you 0:14:25.330 --> 0:14:29.290 would be reaching a certain population, a certain demographic, right? 0:14:29.710 --> 0:14:31.690 Have you ever thought about, you know, do I need 0:14:31.690 --> 0:14:35.350 to reach out to an older audience, more mature audience? 0:14:35.860 --> 0:14:38.500 If you do have a message to convey and it's 0:14:38.500 --> 0:14:41.590 a compelling one, as you can tell from how your 0:14:41.590 --> 0:14:44.590 audience has and your followers have reacted. Do you sometimes say, 0:14:44.590 --> 0:14:46.750 I wish I could reach out to the older ones 0:14:46.750 --> 0:14:48.580 because sometimes the ones we may need to hear it 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:49.900 there as well, right? 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.170 I struggle with that because it makes me feel like, 0:14:53.170 --> 0:14:55.270 am I reaching the right people if I'm just talking 0:14:55.270 --> 0:14:59.290 to people like my age or younger? I've tried. I've 0:14:59.290 --> 0:15:02.680 been trying to giving talks to people of different demographics, 0:15:02.770 --> 0:15:06.070 and it made me realize that perhaps my skillset really 0:15:06.070 --> 0:15:10.990 lives with communicating with a certain demographic that just resonates 0:15:10.990 --> 0:15:15.340 more with my talking style, my drawing style. And hopefully 0:15:15.340 --> 0:15:17.290 they inspire people to do that in their own communities 0:15:17.290 --> 0:15:20.980 because I wouldn't be the most effective spokesperson for someone 0:15:20.980 --> 0:15:24.790 older than me. I can easily share revision. I wonder, 0:15:24.790 --> 0:15:27.560 what else can I do? I even thought about, you know, 0:15:27.580 --> 0:15:31.240 maybe should I be learning other languages, dialects to be 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.060 able to convey the message to another crowd? And I 0:15:34.060 --> 0:15:36.489 think you'll always be a work in process. I would 0:15:36.490 --> 0:15:40.150 love to learn to be able to speak to more demographics, 0:15:40.150 --> 0:15:43.060 but at this point it's like, OK, I can do 0:15:43.060 --> 0:15:45.820 what's best. I'm good at it for now. And let's 0:15:45.820 --> 0:15:48.220 hope to expand this in the future. 0:15:48.700 --> 0:15:51.520 Yeah, I mean, speaking of which, we saw your Instagram 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.220 livestream with Dr. Winston Chao, who is a good friend. 0:15:54.220 --> 0:15:56.440 He's been on our show. Tell us how that came about. 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.160 And did you think it was important to grow your content, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.110 so to speak, to start like during these dialogues with experts? 0:16:03.130 --> 0:16:05.680 Is this something that you hope to grow even more 0:16:05.710 --> 0:16:06.460 of going forward? 0:16:06.820 --> 0:16:10.210 Yeah, it was a lot of planning. It was a 0:16:10.210 --> 0:16:14.200 planning on my part. It's quite easy to just be like, Hey, Dr. 0:16:14.230 --> 0:16:16.210 Winston child, do you want to get on this? It 0:16:16.210 --> 0:16:18.820 happened in a matter of days to me when I 0:16:18.820 --> 0:16:21.550 started my account. I felt that when I was learning 0:16:21.550 --> 0:16:25.900 about environmental studies in school, so much good research and 0:16:25.900 --> 0:16:29.170 learnings were stuck behind like scientific journals that you have 0:16:29.170 --> 0:16:32.470 to get access to. And I thought, why isn't it 0:16:32.470 --> 0:16:37.120 accessible to more people? And jargon wise, I can convince 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.030 some of these things in layman's terms that people can't understand. 0:16:40.030 --> 0:16:43.210 I don't understand why it's so complicated that sometimes. So 0:16:43.210 --> 0:16:45.400 when the IPCC report came out and I saw there 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.250 was four thousand pages, I put it on Twitter and 0:16:48.250 --> 0:16:51.610 I was like, Is there anybody who can explain this 0:16:51.610 --> 0:16:54.190 to me? And since you are, be explaining to me, 0:16:54.190 --> 0:16:56.590 why not get on an Instagram Live so that more 0:16:56.590 --> 0:17:01.390 people can benefit from this content and wisdom very quickly? 0:17:02.050 --> 0:17:04.330 I should say, you know, let's do this. He's worked 0:17:04.330 --> 0:17:07.240 on it and he knows it best. So I say, OK, 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.280 let's get on it, and it was such a great 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:13.030 conversation because he explains things so well. And I had 0:17:13.030 --> 0:17:16.660 so many friends who are working in various industries or schooling, 0:17:16.660 --> 0:17:18.760 who are kicking down notes and sending it to their 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.580 own colleagues to say, Hey, this is what happened. Perhaps 0:17:21.580 --> 0:17:24.669 you should pay attention to this. And I thought, like, Wow, 0:17:24.670 --> 0:17:27.310 they receive such a great response that I did another 0:17:27.310 --> 0:17:32.109 one with two oceanographers who explained specific chapters, and I 0:17:32.109 --> 0:17:34.420 thought I probably would have never been able to do 0:17:34.420 --> 0:17:38.440 this myself by reading it and translating it. So why 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.560 not open my platform to experts who are better able 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.350 to explain this? And I can just be the voice 0:17:44.350 --> 0:17:46.430 of people who don't know what's going on to say? 0:17:46.450 --> 0:17:48.430 Please explain this to me. I just don't get it. 0:17:48.550 --> 0:17:49.629 So I thought that was really fun. 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.220 All eyes are now towards COP26 in Glasgow later this year. 0:17:54.340 --> 0:17:57.190 It's a big event for everyone interested in climate science 0:17:57.190 --> 0:18:00.369 and climate change. Are you doing anything exciting in the 0:18:00.369 --> 0:18:02.560 lead up to that and during the conference? 0:18:02.890 --> 0:18:06.280 Oh, I would say that like a lot of my work, 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.969 it's very heartening. Impromptu. I would love to. I have 0:18:09.970 --> 0:18:13.149 friends who are heading there, and you know, for me, 0:18:13.150 --> 0:18:16.480 the common practice is just to see my account is open. 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.840 Whoever wants to use this to talk about this stuff, 0:18:18.850 --> 0:18:22.720 get on it. Even livestreaming, well, I was in Glasgow 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.840 at that point. I'm guessing you'll be following closely, will you? 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.600 I'll be following it. We plan to send people there 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.730 to cover it, so maybe you can speak to them. 0:18:31.060 --> 0:18:31.450 Yeah. 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:33.040 And if you're interested, 0:18:33.130 --> 0:18:35.890 yeah, of course I'm open to that and anything to 0:18:35.890 --> 0:18:38.980 make this information just more accessible to more people. 0:18:39.070 --> 0:18:41.169 I'm going to get to, you know, a last question 0:18:41.170 --> 0:18:44.500 for you. Obviously, you've been described as an activist. You've 0:18:44.500 --> 0:18:47.980 also been described as a green influencer. First time at home. 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.909 You know, someone who shapes how people think about climate 0:18:51.910 --> 0:18:55.410 change and sustainability. Do you see yourself as that? And 0:18:55.420 --> 0:18:57.280 is that something that you think you want to do 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.010 for the long term? And you know, obviously you have 0:19:00.010 --> 0:19:02.409 a day job. We know that. At what stage do 0:19:02.410 --> 0:19:04.180 you think, you know, I think I want to do 0:19:04.180 --> 0:19:06.850 this full time. And at what stage would you say 0:19:06.850 --> 0:19:09.550 I am ready to do this full time and it's worthwhile. 0:19:09.820 --> 0:19:12.250 I've got a good platform, and I think in terms 0:19:12.250 --> 0:19:15.160 of your work with NGOs or the government, it could 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.439 do with a step up. Are you at that stage 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:18.840 or is that something that you just want to take 0:19:18.850 --> 0:19:19.410 day by day? 0:19:20.020 --> 0:19:23.260 In terms of the we are in, while it's currently 0:19:23.260 --> 0:19:27.010 something that I would do informally, I am definitely, you know, 0:19:27.010 --> 0:19:29.560 working on other projects that I will hope to take 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.890 science communication on to a bigger platform to monetise it 0:19:32.890 --> 0:19:35.950 so that we can just open these two more disciplines, 0:19:35.950 --> 0:19:38.679 more talent who would be able to communicate better than 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.020 I can. I don't think I'm the only person will 0:19:41.020 --> 0:19:43.899 be interested to do this. But for now, on the 0:19:43.900 --> 0:19:48.760 Instagram page, I see myself as someone who has thoughts 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.100 on climate issues and have a particular point of view. 0:19:52.390 --> 0:19:55.179 I always encourage people to not just read my stuff 0:19:55.180 --> 0:19:58.060 because I clearly have a bias. You can come here 0:19:58.060 --> 0:20:01.900 for that us, but to also know that I am 0:20:02.170 --> 0:20:04.300 in the process of learning a lot of new things, 0:20:04.300 --> 0:20:07.060 I don't think I always get things right, but I 0:20:07.060 --> 0:20:10.300 just hope that I can be someone who facilitate someone 0:20:10.330 --> 0:20:14.380 else's money. Say to, you know, my peers online whether 0:20:14.380 --> 0:20:17.050 I'm going to do this full time. But for now, 0:20:17.260 --> 0:20:19.720 I'm happy keeping it part time because I think it 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.880 allows me to sit and think about what I want 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.060 to do, rather than be forced to have to continuously 0:20:25.060 --> 0:20:28.429 produce content just so that I can stay alive, you know? 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.510 Well, that's a great point. But in any case, even now, 0:20:31.510 --> 0:20:33.580 and as you get there, and if you do get there, 0:20:33.580 --> 0:20:37.050 we will certainly be in touch with you in this space. 0:20:37.450 --> 0:20:37.870 Thank you very 0:20:37.869 --> 0:20:39.040 much. Thanks for having me. 0:20:40.450 --> 0:20:43.119 And thanks for listening to the clever conversations. Stay up 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.450 to date on CNN's coverage of climate change on CNN Asia. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.450 You can also find this and other CNN podcasts on 0:20:49.450 --> 0:20:52.510 our website and on iTunes and Spotify. The team behind 0:20:52.510 --> 0:20:56.230 this podcast are Christina Robert Insulin's and Erin Lowe. I'm 0:20:56.230 --> 0:20:57.639 Jamie Hall until next week.