Speaker 1: Hey, it's sonia. It's been a hot minute since we
Speaker 1: came back for men explained, but we are officially back
Speaker 1: in case you forgot me already, which you better not have,
Speaker 1: I will come and look for you. We really have
Speaker 1: amazing guests to come on down and join us every
Speaker 1: single episode to debunk lots of topics and on top
Speaker 1: of that we get really down and dirty and honest,
Speaker 1: literally all opinions are aired and there's no holds barred
Speaker 1: when it comes to these episodes. Today, I have a
Speaker 1: very special guest, we've hung out personally, I think like
Speaker 1: one time and I already know some of his dirty
Speaker 1: secrets because it was over a couple of drinks.
Speaker 1: Please welcome. Hi,
Speaker 2: I'm, I'm from the Chinese radio station. Just 93.
Speaker 1: Yes, so you are basically the mandarin version of 987.
Speaker 1: We kind of reflect each other in that sort
Speaker 2: of, we play like the hip chinese songs you love,
Speaker 2: you know, if
Speaker 1: you have no clue what is a hip chinese song
Speaker 1: right now, please try me.
Speaker 2: Okay, how about Right?
Speaker 1: No, I know it's the only guy I,
Speaker 2: you know, you're a new album, just
Speaker 1: has a new album. Right, okay, this is us just
Speaker 1: catching up on like radio DJ things. Okay, but tell
Speaker 1: us a bit more about yourself, you know, we never
Speaker 1: really got down to sit like this and chat. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know we had like some shots together last
Speaker 2: time, some just
Speaker 1: some enough to not remember the night
Speaker 2: you sober, totally,
Speaker 1: totally sober. So tell us a bit more you came
Speaker 1: into this industry, is it at all what you expected?
Speaker 2: I don't know when I came into the industry was
Speaker 2: technically about 5 to 6 years ago when I first
Speaker 2: step we made a cop that was after the competition.
Speaker 2: So I was from the same batch as hazel, right?
Speaker 2: And then we joined the competition together. I got a
Speaker 2: part time contract with me, The cop started doing part time,
Speaker 2: like a weekend DJ kind of thing. I did my
Speaker 2: internship here as well and then I left for army
Speaker 2: and uni. So I came back after about five years
Speaker 2: each and I just joined the station last year. It
Speaker 2: was a very
Speaker 2: refreshing experience. Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean their ups and downs for sure. And this
Speaker 1: is going to be an equally interesting experience because sometimes
Speaker 1: our guests have no idea what's going to happen during
Speaker 1: the show and today we're addressing this topic and I'm
Speaker 1: sure you have tons of things you want to say.
Speaker 1: Should men always make the first move? Should men always
Speaker 1: pay on the first date? For example, these things, I
Speaker 1: don't know man, I think their expectations in a relationship
Speaker 1: and when people start dating and all that.
Speaker 1: So I want to kick it off with you. What
Speaker 1: is your dating status right now? Are you dating?
Speaker 2: No, you're
Speaker 1: not really Not really. Okay. When was the last time
Speaker 1: you went on a date date? Oh,
Speaker 2: last time was not too long ago actually.
Speaker 1: Okay, so then in your dating life, have you ever
Speaker 1: encountered people who maybe expect a certain thing out of
Speaker 1: their male partner?
Speaker 2: I think I'm quite lucky,
Speaker 2: to be honest. I've never met anyone who set out
Speaker 2: any expectations for me as a partner, but I've heard
Speaker 2: a lot of stories about similar things, like in terms
Speaker 2: of financial status, in terms of, um, I don't know
Speaker 2: your dreams and your goals in life, that sort of things.
Speaker 1: So, so far, your dating experience has been very chill
Speaker 1: and most of them are on the same page as you,
Speaker 2: I will say. So what about you?
Speaker 1: Um, it's interesting. I mean, I usually date older guys
Speaker 1: and I mean, I think my life is an open
Speaker 1: book at this point on men explain so far, you know,
Speaker 1: I as a partner,
Speaker 1: I don't expect someone to get the bill on the
Speaker 1: first date. In fact, interesting thing when I started talking
Speaker 1: to my current boyfriend, I actually manipulated him to ask
Speaker 1: me out for dinner.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm
Speaker 1: using the word manipulated like 100% okay, so here's what happened.
Speaker 1: He and I met and then we were talking, you know,
Speaker 1: texting quite a bit and stuff like that, but he
Speaker 1: didn't ask me out for like two weeks. That is
Speaker 1: like two years in girl years, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: girl time and then all of a sudden he,
Speaker 1: he goes, hey, you want to hang. So it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, cool. Right? So I said, okay, sure, when,
Speaker 1: when you free, he's like, you want to do lunch, lunch, lunch,
Speaker 2: lunch,
Speaker 1: okay. You tell me what's for
Speaker 2: lunch? I don't know that that's, that's what I say,
Speaker 2: like half the time you want to go to a
Speaker 2: cafe for breakfast or something
Speaker 1: and that's your idea of a first date.
Speaker 2: No, I know I've been making some mistakes, clearly.
Speaker 1: Okay. I don't know whether it's because my idea of
Speaker 1: getting to know someone on a first date would rather
Speaker 1: be a bit formal.
Speaker 1: Like over dinner, over a longer meal. Like lunch feels
Speaker 1: like he has a very valid excuse to rush off.
Speaker 1: Like right after that. You know what I mean? Am
Speaker 1: I overthinking it? I don't know sister, help me out here.
Speaker 2: That's quite valid. Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is valid. So I was thinking to myself,
Speaker 1: this guy isn't really keen on getting to know me
Speaker 1: much better. So then I said, you know what, all
Speaker 1: my lunch dates out for the next two weeks, I'm
Speaker 1: like super busy. So do you want to meet for
Speaker 1: dinner instead? And then he goes, yeah, sure, okay.
Speaker 1: And so I asked him about it a while later,
Speaker 1: I said like how come you didn't ask me out
Speaker 1: to dinner, asked me for lunch. He said, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to like, I wasn't sure whether it will go
Speaker 1: well or not. I'm going to try to not be
Speaker 1: offended right now, but in a long story short. I
Speaker 1: definitely manipulated him to have dinner with me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: awesome. Okay.
Speaker 1: These are like our deepest, darkest thoughts.
Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Welcome,
Speaker 2: lovely to know. But I always thought that it doesn't
Speaker 2: make too much of a difference. It's lunch or dinner,
Speaker 2: but now I know it actually matters
Speaker 2: and I also didn't know that two weeks is like
Speaker 2: two years to go. Very slow replying. So that's the
Speaker 2: first thing
Speaker 1: you're slow in replying
Speaker 2: extremely slow. My friends always say I'll just send a
Speaker 2: pigeon or dove to you. That's faster. And secondly, I
Speaker 2: also think that, you know, I don't want to rush
Speaker 2: into things. I don't want to seem too eager. Okay,
Speaker 2: so just take it slow.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you've got to find it in between the
Speaker 1: guys taking too long to reply me. I'm also going
Speaker 1: to be like, maybe I should move on
Speaker 2: clearly. I have not mastered that.
Speaker 1: So then let's take you back to the first date situation.
Speaker 1: Do you have any expected
Speaker 1: of your date when you guys first meet and go out.
Speaker 2: Okay. There's one I think it's like a pet peeve
Speaker 2: for a lot of people is how they treat service stuff.
Speaker 2: I think that matters a lot. Right? On the first day,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter whether it's a normal restaurant or go
Speaker 2: to very posh diner, that sort of things. You just
Speaker 2: want to see the way they treat the waiter for example. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Let's say they get your food order wrong, Let's say
Speaker 2: they're a little bit slow with the service, you know,
Speaker 2: how would they react? I think it's very important.
Speaker 1: It is, it's very telling of someone's character. Have you
Speaker 1: come across someone like this in your dating
Speaker 1: in
Speaker 2: a good way or bad way?
Speaker 1: In a bad way? I guess
Speaker 2: not in a dating sense, but I have friends who
Speaker 2: have done that.
Speaker 1: Are you still friends? Yeah, I
Speaker 2: did speak to the friend afterwards was like, that was
Speaker 2: uncalled for for a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Safe to say that if a date did that, it
Speaker 1: would be a red flag immediately for
Speaker 2: you, I guess. Yeah, I've done like wedding banquets
Speaker 1: before. You
Speaker 2: see the way that people treat us? We had a
Speaker 2: wedding banquet,
Speaker 1: was it? It was bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was a pretty tough job as well.
Speaker 2: You got to carry loads of plates and the longest
Speaker 2: was about
Speaker 2: 16 hours in a day. And then you learn to
Speaker 2: appreciate people working at F&B. Industry.
Speaker 1: Sure, no wonder that is your pet peeve, right? Because
Speaker 1: you've had experience with its like production companies and stuff
Speaker 1: like that when you work with them bringing you back
Speaker 1: to your red flags, which is, you know the service
Speaker 1: staff thing, like you mentioned earlier. What are some expectations
Speaker 1: you think women have of men on the first date,
Speaker 2: the first thing probably be, who's going to pay
Speaker 2: the bill when the bill comes usually will be the guide. Okay.
Speaker 1: Usually used to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's the norm. Right?
Speaker 1: So has your date ever offered to pay?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, who offered to pay?
Speaker 1: Did you offer to split or?
Speaker 2: Okay. So what I think is I will always offer
Speaker 2: to pay for the first date. Okay. No matter what
Speaker 2: we got right, I would just, whenever the bill comes,
Speaker 2: I'll pay for it first. And then if the girl
Speaker 2: suggests splitting the bill or she offers to pay instead,
Speaker 2: I'll just take it as a huge plus point
Speaker 1: Really because I have some friends whom I've spoken to,
Speaker 1: whom I asked if your date offers to split the bill.
Speaker 1: Does that mean that the date went horribly and you
Speaker 1: just don't want to owe anyone anything
Speaker 1: at the end of the day? Yeah. Am I overthinking,
Speaker 1: I have no idea if that's
Speaker 2: the case then all my dates have been horrible. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: He needs to, he needs to be set up on a,
Speaker 1: on a date very soon. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I thought it's very normal. Like the guy will always
Speaker 2: offer to pay first and then you just kind of
Speaker 2: like glance over the girl and see whether she wants
Speaker 2: to make a little move? Yeah. Like a sudden movement,
Speaker 2: like pretend to take a walk or something that counts.
Speaker 1: At least pretend,
Speaker 2: right? At least pretend,
Speaker 1: right? You
Speaker 2: slowly
Speaker 2: yeah
Speaker 1: away from something
Speaker 2: you see the motion. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You can judge a person's character from there.
Speaker 2: But I know sometimes let's say the girl does not
Speaker 2: offer to pay for dinner, right? When she says maybe
Speaker 2: you can grab a drink,
Speaker 1: okay. Then she gets the
Speaker 2: drink gets
Speaker 1: positive. I like that movie. So then let's just say,
Speaker 1: you know, aside from getting the bill on the first date,
Speaker 1: there's so many other expectations that people have for each other.
Speaker 1: I'm going into a relationship or when they start dating
Speaker 1: and all that. When you come to the texting phase, right?
Speaker 1: When
Speaker 1: people, you know, exchange messages usually that's the most exciting
Speaker 1: part when you're like flirting and stuff like that. Usually
Speaker 1: you would be the one making the first move. No.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say so.
Speaker 1: Have you ever come across a woman, a girl who
Speaker 1: made the first move and you found it refreshing
Speaker 2: for sure. Has that happened more than refreshing? It's very welcomed.
Speaker 2: I would say. I think most of us like guys
Speaker 2: who are used to making the first move. I'll be texting, asking,
Speaker 2: asking to go out or whatever, right? And then when
Speaker 2: a girl turn the table around and she does it first,
Speaker 2: you'd be like, whoa, that's nice. Who doesn't
Speaker 2: I want to feel like they're being liked by someone else. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Need to boost your ego a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I mean of course we have that too. And then,
Speaker 1: you know, there's so many other like rules of dating,
Speaker 1: such as when you text, like, you always have to
Speaker 1: be the one to initiate stuff like that. Does this
Speaker 1: still happen? Or is this like a high school
Speaker 2: thing I think doesn't happen as often as high school
Speaker 2: I mentioned last time, it's always like, the guy must
Speaker 2: make a lot of move. Just
Speaker 1: waiting on my Motorola phone, like
Speaker 2: for you can't see the text.
Speaker 2: So I was remember in secondary school, like, a lot
Speaker 2: of girls in class, they'll be like, oh, he just
Speaker 2: texted me but no girl, you cannot reply yet must
Speaker 2: play hard to
Speaker 1: get weight
Speaker 2: Exactly 22 minutes to reply. And I was like, what
Speaker 2: the number 23? I don't know, is the magic number
Speaker 1: just make it look random?
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like, just don't make him feel like you
Speaker 2: actually want to give him attention.
Speaker 1: So as we grow up and we get very busy,
Speaker 1: we actually don't have time to reply. So, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a different ballgame altogether. So I'm going to take
Speaker 1: it one step further.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about women proposing to men?
Speaker 2: Honestly, I don't know what to feel about it. I
Speaker 2: feel like the whole proposing situation is very stressful. Like,
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be a little bit paranoid? Okay, let's say
Speaker 2: you are in the long-term relationship with someone and then
Speaker 2: you are not 100% sure that the person will say
Speaker 2: yes and then I wouldn't get a little bit awkward.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I personally I don't think too much
Speaker 1: into proposals and stuff. Like I feel like it should
Speaker 1: be a moment between two people can be simple. It
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be extravagant.
Speaker 2: Don't you
Speaker 1: know, don't don't put the laser beam stuff on MBS
Speaker 2: for a balloon or something
Speaker 1: or that drone thing. There was this guy, this drone
Speaker 1: thing like, marry me, please. But she says no. Oh
Speaker 1: my
Speaker 2: God. Or
Speaker 1: worse, special to say yes. And then she's like, sorry,
Speaker 1: actually
Speaker 2: met at a concert.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like
Speaker 2: thousands of people and
Speaker 1: jay chou to say something.
Speaker 2: You can't say no, right?
Speaker 1: You can't say no, you can't say no. I mean
Speaker 1: you can technically, but you'd be pressured to say yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But not really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But let me talk later, Let's talk.
Speaker 1: But I've seen a lot of women now proposing to
Speaker 1: their partners, which is very interesting. I wonder whether that
Speaker 1: makes you and fellow bros feel you know, a certain way. Like,
Speaker 1: do you feel like awkward or like I should have
Speaker 1: done that, you know, kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think a little bit, a little part of us,
Speaker 2: we feel like maybe I should have made a move first.
Speaker 2: Is it? Like, am I being too reluctant? Am I
Speaker 2: too oblivious to
Speaker 2: to what's going on here. Why am I not the
Speaker 2: one making the move? Because typically I think we're all
Speaker 2: taught that the guy should be the one making all
Speaker 2: the
Speaker 1: moves, right?
Speaker 2: Such big decisions, especially like proposing. I think it's very
Speaker 2: refreshing to see ladies take the turn instead. Okay,
Speaker 1: so then I guess when it comes back to the
Speaker 1: whole dating scene, right, when you're going out and you're
Speaker 1: hanging out and stuff like that, let me give you
Speaker 1: a situation. So it
Speaker 1: for example, you guys are deciding where to go for
Speaker 1: dinner and your date suggests like a super expensive Michelin
Speaker 1: star restaurant. Okay,
Speaker 2: okay, Okay.
Speaker 1: Would you be like, Okay to pay for that if
Speaker 1: it's like 500 per hit? You know? Or do you
Speaker 1: think that the person who suggested the place should offer
Speaker 1: to split or pay for it to
Speaker 2: honestly have not been put in such a situation before?
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what it will be like. But honestly,
Speaker 2: I feel like the two of you should agree on
Speaker 2: a place that you both want to explore or you're
Speaker 2: comfortable with financially, right? You can't be walking into a
Speaker 2: place that you know, you can't afford and you will
Speaker 2: never financially recover from it and it still offered to
Speaker 2: pay the bill? I don't think it makes sense that Yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's good to communicate first and see if you
Speaker 2: guys can reach a mutual agreement
Speaker 2: rather than forcing yourself to go to a place you're
Speaker 2: not comfortable with
Speaker 1: So then if your partner is constantly suggesting expensive places
Speaker 1: every time you guys are going out, is that a
Speaker 1: red flag for you?
Speaker 2: I think it depends on what is your financial situation,
Speaker 2: what is this? So if they're running away like way
Speaker 2: more than you, right, you can understand why they want
Speaker 2: to go to more extravagant places.
Speaker 1: It's a lifestyle. I think
Speaker 2: you should, you know, suggest to them that, hey, maybe
Speaker 2: I don't
Speaker 1: enjoy some hawker food today. Chicken
Speaker 2: rice is nice too.
Speaker 1: It's a balance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you should communicate more and let them
Speaker 2: know that you're not comfortable going out to expensive restaurants
Speaker 2: every single time
Speaker 1: and you have not encountered someone like this before,
Speaker 2: luckily yeah,
Speaker 1: actually your dating life has been quite team. Any interesting
Speaker 1: stories or not from your past dates,
Speaker 2: defined interest
Speaker 1: that you want to spill here on the show.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm still learning the whole dating scene,
Speaker 1: really, you're still learning, but he's so eligible. What's going
Speaker 1: on here? There must be something wrong. Tell me what,
Speaker 1: what
Speaker 1: are you, are you like generally an introvert for example,
Speaker 1: or you're an introvert? Okay, and yet you're in the media,
Speaker 2: you know, lovely. And I'm a, I'm a radio DJ,
Speaker 2: so talk nonstop every day
Speaker 1: and technically back in the past, being a radio presenter
Speaker 1: may have come across as a slightly introverted alone all
Speaker 1: the time, but now it's different, you're on camera, you know,
Speaker 1: you are hosting things outside in front of hundreds of people,
Speaker 1: you're visiting schools, you're doing so many things. Does that
Speaker 1: or your point or your line of work affect your
Speaker 1: dating life sometimes. Like do do do women look at
Speaker 1: you sometimes think like, oh, he must be very fancy
Speaker 1: or in a lot like, you know, let me,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you have experience similar
Speaker 1: I have over in Zurich actually the last time we
Speaker 1: had there was a guy that came up to me
Speaker 1: and he said, hey, you're sonia. And he was like, hey,
Speaker 1: let me get you a drink.
Speaker 1: And I said sure, like sure. And I was just
Speaker 1: with friends and I wasn't seeing anyone at the point
Speaker 1: in time. And then he goes, I really want to
Speaker 1: ask you for your number and I want to ask
Speaker 1: you out. And he was like, but the only thing
Speaker 1: that's stopping me is that I'm sure you only at
Speaker 1: Michelin star restaurants and I was like, okay, that was
Speaker 1: the ultimate turn off for me. I was, I was
Speaker 1: I know, I don't expect him to know me,
Speaker 1: but it's just that he had an assumption of me
Speaker 1: based on what he sees from social media. Either social media,
Speaker 1: but then again on social media even post anything
Speaker 2: you like, but merely a hawker center.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be like fine, yeah, I love hawker food,
Speaker 1: like why not?
Speaker 2: Why make that assumption? I
Speaker 1: don't know exactly in the first place. So I did
Speaker 1: tell him like, hey man, I'm sorry, I'm not really
Speaker 1: interested to continue the conversation but
Speaker 1: like hope that hope you know that I don't only
Speaker 1: michelin's tariffs. In fact that is like a rare occasion.
Speaker 1: So that was my, my incident. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you have come across anything related to
Speaker 2: That. Well I've met a lot of people like we're
Speaker 2: just in a talking phase and realize that the timing
Speaker 2: is really hard to match right? So I worked the
Speaker 2: night shift from eight pm to 12
Speaker 1: AM. That's
Speaker 2: right. So the only time you can meet them if
Speaker 2: they are also working adult is after work and before
Speaker 2: my work starts. So if I do,
Speaker 2: we have other filming or recording stuff going on that day.
Speaker 2: I'm technically free before like seven plus PM.
Speaker 1: But it makes things hard because people want to hang
Speaker 1: out like dinner, then drinks
Speaker 2: so you can't do that right now. The only time
Speaker 2: you get to meet them is say after work which
Speaker 2: is after 12 midnight. Yeah and then they have work
Speaker 2: tomorrow
Speaker 1: exactly how they're going to
Speaker 2: do that as we can. But sometimes we go weekend
Speaker 2: shift as well.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why it's hard for you to be dating
Speaker 1: so often
Speaker 2: should we
Speaker 1: appeal to your boss to change shift?
Speaker 1: They think life can improve after this. I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe
Speaker 2: I don't think that's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: But anyways the thing
Speaker 2: is that you just get to meet them about once
Speaker 2: or twice a week and
Speaker 1: is that enough for you?
Speaker 2: I'm quite okay at the moment. I think I'm quite
Speaker 2: focused on my career. Okay. But
Speaker 1: on that note, you know, still on dating obviously. What
Speaker 1: if the girl that you asked what happened to be
Speaker 1: extremely rich? Like she's like, I don't know, like tycoon's
Speaker 1: daughter or something? Okay, will that change the dynamic then
Speaker 1: for you if you guys go out
Speaker 1: and she wants to get a fancy place and then
Speaker 1: you go, I'm not sure because you know, I'm still
Speaker 1: working very hard and hustling out there, but she's like,
Speaker 1: don't worry, I got it. And it doesn't just happen
Speaker 1: once it happens almost every single time. Don't worry about
Speaker 1: it when you guys go out. Don't worry. I got it.
Speaker 1: Like how does that make you feel? I
Speaker 2: think if you pressure right
Speaker 1: will you,
Speaker 2: what are you bringing to the table here? What are
Speaker 2: you contributing?
Speaker 1: Unconditional love? Obviously. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's one thing, but financially, you'll be like,
Speaker 2: it's quite a burden you're going to make up for it.
Speaker 2: I imagine
Speaker 2: your friend, your friend is always the one paying, you
Speaker 2: feel bad, right? That's what we thought, Yeah, you feel
Speaker 2: like you owe this person something and you want to
Speaker 2: make up to them. But I don't know how,
Speaker 1: So I mean that is a very common thing nowadays.
Speaker 1: I see sometimes my friends telling me about these things
Speaker 1: too for some reason, you know, meeting somebody who's like
Speaker 1: a lot wealthier than you and stuff could really throw
Speaker 1: the dynamic off the entire relationship and change certain things.
Speaker 1: But I wonder if the tables were turned and a
Speaker 1: girl actually dated an extremely rich guy and he's like,
Speaker 1: I got it,
Speaker 1: then we will just be like, okay, all right, well we,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just thinking on behalf of my sisters.
Speaker 1: Like I might just be like, yeah, sure. I don't mind.
Speaker 1: But I could be suggesting next time like, hey guys,
Speaker 1: maybe we don't have to go expensive places all the time.
Speaker 1: You know,
Speaker 2: I've had girl friends, a
Speaker 1: really rich men,
Speaker 2: they'll be like, why not?
Speaker 2: They'll be like, I'm bringing to the table, it's just me. Like,
Speaker 2: you know, I put all this time to do my
Speaker 2: makeup and all so he should appreciate my time and
Speaker 2: in return he gives me his time plus his money.
Speaker 2: So I feel like it's fair.
Speaker 1: Really interesting. What about gifts though? I wonder
Speaker 1: if he's always splurging on you like gives versus the
Speaker 1: other way around. Like, would you feel like you owe
Speaker 1: her something?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I think even as normal friends, right?
Speaker 2: You feel a bit weird, let's say for your birthday,
Speaker 2: your friend gives you a really nice watch and you
Speaker 2: give him like a tumbler in return.
Speaker 2: It's the thought that counts technically. Yeah, but you feel
Speaker 2: a little bit bad because the value doesn't really match
Speaker 2: at all?
Speaker 1: Where do you find friends like that who buy you
Speaker 1: brand new watchers,
Speaker 2: imaginary friends,
Speaker 1: they don't actually exist. The tumbler friends exist,
Speaker 2: Right? 100
Speaker 1: percent. That's for sure.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I haven't been on dating apps before. Have
Speaker 2: you? You
Speaker 1: have which ones?
Speaker 2: Everything I've tried, where was it? 3, 3, 3 different colors.
Speaker 1: Okay, so
Speaker 2: yellow one, there's a red one. Purple one, is it? Okay?
Speaker 2: I think
Speaker 1: I'm so unfamiliar with that, but according to a bumble
Speaker 1: study bubble, sounds like the Yellow one. Is it is
Speaker 1: it is it
Speaker 1: 81% of Singapore respondents say that gender roles make people
Speaker 1: behave differently from who they truly are and 79% say
Speaker 1: that gender roles make it more difficult to build equal relationships.
Speaker 1: So the question is, have you ever pretended a little
Speaker 1: bit too, you know, be a certain way on the
Speaker 1: dating apps when you're getting to know people and you
Speaker 1: try to I don't know, maybe overcompensate or your slight
Speaker 1: different from who you really are when you're talking to
Speaker 1: strangers on a
Speaker 2: slightly different. I think I'm quite introverted, right? So when
Speaker 2: I'm talking to someone on a dating app, you can't
Speaker 2: be like all shy and all. You've got to make
Speaker 2: the first move, you gotta carry the conversation half the
Speaker 2: time you got to add a little bit more extroverted
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 1: Okay, so,
Speaker 2: so that's one part, but I don't think there's any
Speaker 2: other aspects of it
Speaker 2: that pretended to be someone that I'm not,
Speaker 1: have you met someone who did that before? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: your experience chatting with a person is almost completely different
Speaker 1: from in person meeting? Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's certainly a few experiences like that, like say the
Speaker 2: person is very chatty on the app yourself, but when
Speaker 2: you meet them, they're just like stoning
Speaker 2: the time you'll be wondering, am I the boring one,
Speaker 2: am I boring you? Right, what's happening here? Yeah, if
Speaker 2: you had similar experiences,
Speaker 1: you know, once again, I've never been on dating apps
Speaker 2: just meeting people after texting them,
Speaker 1: you know, I have to say, I have to admit
Speaker 1: a lot of the guys I did it I met
Speaker 1: at like clubs,
Speaker 1: so that's why it's
Speaker 2: easy to carry a conversation,
Speaker 1: right? Yeah, so you actually, you actually meet someone in person,
Speaker 1: I don't know whether this is like kind of old
Speaker 1: school because this is obviously pre pre pre pandemic, right?
Speaker 1: Like that's the place where you would meet people like
Speaker 1: bars clubs, you know, you just talk to you, I
Speaker 1: don't know whether the whole onset
Speaker 1: the pandemic has changed the way people communicate with each
Speaker 1: other and made people even more shy or less inclined
Speaker 1: to make the first
Speaker 2: move in person,
Speaker 1: I think. So, you know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's the only way during the pandemic
Speaker 1: is exactly you can't actually meet people. So I feel
Speaker 1: like people might have taken a few steps back, please
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: Might have taken a few steps back in terms of
Speaker 1: being more forthcoming in person when you meet people
Speaker 2: nowadays. Yeah. So I think there's a layer of us
Speaker 2: that we want to present our best site when you
Speaker 2: first meet someone.
Speaker 1: Yes, of course.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But sometimes we go a little bit too much
Speaker 2: on that and then you're pretending to be someone you're not,
Speaker 2: which I've heard a lot of stories about the guy
Speaker 2: is acting really nice and polite
Speaker 2: and then he's actually really controlling later on, the sort
Speaker 2: of things,
Speaker 1: but only time will tell, right? That's the problem. Like
Speaker 1: you only know once you start dating them a little
Speaker 1: bit longer, obviously when it comes to that as well,
Speaker 1: you would have dated a whole bunch of different types
Speaker 1: of people all around the shy ones. Independent ones, hit
Speaker 1: strong ones. Do you feel intimidated by strong, independent women
Speaker 1: who have, you know, strong opinions.
Speaker 2: Not at all.
Speaker 1: Not at all love it. You love
Speaker 2: it. Very clingy person.
Speaker 1: Tell us
Speaker 1: tell us more.
Speaker 2: So I need my personal space and time. So I
Speaker 2: prefer if I have a few days of the week
Speaker 2: to myself. Okay, I think that's great.
Speaker 1: What if she's very controlling
Speaker 2: in what we should check
Speaker 1: the next decisions. No, that's possessive, right? Or definitions of it?
Speaker 1: Or so I'm saying what if she wants to make
Speaker 1: all the decisions? Like she's very headstrong. She has opinions
Speaker 1: about what you do or what you wear and stuff
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: I think it's good to have someone to share their opinion.
Speaker 2: You say, for example, the easiest one is choosing where
Speaker 2: to eat. A lot of people just tell you that
Speaker 2: I don't know anything. Whatever
Speaker 1: you make you frustrated sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's not hard. Yeah, but when you tell
Speaker 2: them you give them a few options would be like,
Speaker 2: not really don't feel like this. So you actually do
Speaker 2: have an opinion, Mind you just
Speaker 1: don't want it. Didn't say it, I
Speaker 2: just didn't want to say. Yeah, so I prefer if
Speaker 2: they say it up front and then for other things
Speaker 2: is like, let's say they give some advice on your
Speaker 2: hmm I think it's great to hear a different opinion
Speaker 2: from someone who's not in your shoes at the moment.
Speaker 2: It's great to hear that.
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, being in the media industry, I think
Speaker 1: we can both relate on this. I've shared some experiences
Speaker 1: before on this very show, actually about dating people outside
Speaker 1: of my industry. Actually, I've never dated someone in the
Speaker 1: industry before. It's all been outside and my experience has
Speaker 1: been interesting to say the least, but I want you
Speaker 1: to share yours first. Have you ever come across a
Speaker 1: situation where you went on a date with someone
Speaker 1: and you know, she, for example, doesn't think very much
Speaker 1: of the industry that you're in.
Speaker 2: Yeah. What
Speaker 1: happened there? Tell me more details. I think
Speaker 2: she just met a few people from our industry before. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Or maybe even dated a few. Yeah. So she doesn't
Speaker 2: think very highly off.
Speaker 1: In what way, the
Speaker 2: kind of things we do the working hours and also
Speaker 2: the type of people that I think she met in
Speaker 2: the industry.
Speaker 1: Okay. So she thinks that we're just like having fun
Speaker 1: all the time or sitting around all the time
Speaker 1: and this is all very easy kind of thing, right?
Speaker 1: That's what
Speaker 2: she used to say. It's very easy to say, like,
Speaker 2: it doesn't look as glamorous as it actually is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's one thing. And then she'll be like, oh, I
Speaker 2: think most of them are not very serious about relationships.
Speaker 1: Oh, really?
Speaker 2: Heard that before.
Speaker 1: Okay. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've heard people saying things about people in the media industry, like,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you haven't figured out what you really
Speaker 1: want to do yet, You're just having fun, like, you know,
Speaker 1: doing this stuff because you haven't really truly figured out
Speaker 1: your life. Um And I once was with this guy,
Speaker 1: awkward situation,
Speaker 1: we were at someone's wedding actually okay, and we had
Speaker 1: been dating for, I think like maybe half a year
Speaker 1: at least already. So attending a friend's wedding, It was
Speaker 1: all his friends over there, sat down. They're all like doctors, lawyers,
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Okay, no offense against anyone, you
Speaker 1: know because I've dated, I'm dating banker right now. I
Speaker 1: used to date a doctor as well.
Speaker 1: I don't really see, you know the career as like
Speaker 1: like one is better than the other or like you know,
Speaker 1: kind of thing because I feel we're all specialized in
Speaker 1: our own way. I can't do surgery, he can't do this.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like you can't present on
Speaker 1: radio or be in front of millions of people on
Speaker 1: tv for example right?
Speaker 1: But not knowing his friends over there, we sat down
Speaker 1: and they all started talking about career I guess because
Speaker 1: we're all around the same age ish. You know, some
Speaker 1: of them a bit older, they're still trying to build
Speaker 1: a career up to somewhere very stable and more senior.
Speaker 1: So I think I had a few drinks and all
Speaker 1: this guy who's a lawyer,
Speaker 1: he was like, so what is it exactly you do
Speaker 1: like aside from just looking nice in front of the camera.
Speaker 1: So then I very nicely told him and described what
Speaker 1: I do, you know, a busy day for us typically
Speaker 1: and all
Speaker 2: that right? And
Speaker 1: then he started saying, do you know how much I
Speaker 1: earn an hour, I bet like your whole month's pay
Speaker 1: can't even like cover my one hour consultation fee. I
Speaker 1: was like bitch, sit down. I know
Speaker 2: who gave him the
Speaker 1: permission permission to say that. I I'm not going to
Speaker 1: disclose what our rates are, but you can sit down
Speaker 1: okay sit down appreciates higher
Speaker 2: than his. Our really.
Speaker 1: I mean now maybe last time I was still like yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean very new and
Speaker 2: I don't understand. Yeah, I don't know where they think
Speaker 2: of these kind of things. Um friends who could forget
Speaker 2: that I was once our major
Speaker 1: right? Yeah.
Speaker 2: And they'll be like, oh you know you got useless
Speaker 2: degree if you got arts degree and I'm just there
Speaker 2: like thanks, thanks a lot.
Speaker 1: So I feel like these things, you know your industry,
Speaker 1: the choices you make in school, you know, your tertiary education,
Speaker 1: all that, it could already start forming certain perceptions and
Speaker 1: people's expectations I
Speaker 2: think depends on the kind of group of people they
Speaker 2: hang out with as well.
Speaker 1: Exactly. My
Speaker 2: friends would do like finance and then the whole group
Speaker 2: all learning quite a bit for fresh Grad and then
Speaker 2: they will judge other career choices. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes you talk to me, they'd be like actually
Speaker 2: what you choose to do this, you got no other choice.
Speaker 1: You know, I have to say this is a whole
Speaker 1: other topic on its own right? But yeah, we don't
Speaker 1: have to justify it. I mean as long as we
Speaker 1: enjoy what we do,
Speaker 2: we don't even
Speaker 1: have to reveal too much information sometimes even to your
Speaker 1: friends who might get a bit toxic sometimes. So on
Speaker 1: that note as well, if you dated, say a girl
Speaker 2: who
Speaker 1: indeed earns more than
Speaker 2: you,
Speaker 1: how will that form your foundation of your relationship? Let's
Speaker 1: say you're around the same age. She doesn't really quiet,
Speaker 1: she doesn't look down on your industry nothing. But she
Speaker 1: definitely earns more. Would you be okay with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it changes a lot of things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't change a lot of things.
Speaker 2: Normally let's say you're dating someone, you go with them
Speaker 2: for a couple of months, you're going to start sharing
Speaker 2: the bills for everything, right? Yeah. It's no longer just
Speaker 2: gonna be like, I'm going to pay for all the
Speaker 2: dates I'm going to pay for all the meals. It's
Speaker 2: probably going to be
Speaker 2: splitting or you cover the first one and she'll take
Speaker 2: the second one and it's pretty equal from their own right.
Speaker 2: So it matters a lot until you get to the
Speaker 2: point of marriage.
Speaker 1: It's funny you mention that because you know, there was
Speaker 1: a study that showed actually women, especially in more serious
Speaker 1: relationships or who are married and stuff like that who
Speaker 1: are very successful in their professional lives. They might actually
Speaker 1: feel a little bit bad about it if they earn
Speaker 1: more than their partner and try to overcompensate for
Speaker 1: example at home. So maybe things like, you know, I
Speaker 1: will try my best to like spend more time with
Speaker 1: the kids or do the dishes or offer to do
Speaker 1: this and that. What is that? What are your thoughts
Speaker 1: on that?
Speaker 2: Interesting because if we're both working adults and we're both
Speaker 2: working like full time jobs to cover your monthly bills
Speaker 2: and the mortgage and stuff. Right? I think it's kind
Speaker 2: of weird that one person has to put in a
Speaker 2: lot more time than the other. So let's say you're
Speaker 2: working and I'm working and we come home, we're both
Speaker 2: super tired, right? Then we should just split
Speaker 2: all the house chores together.
Speaker 1: Just don't do the chores. Like I just do it
Speaker 1: tomorrow helper. I don't know. So on the topic of
Speaker 1: like dating norms and stuff like that, I know there's
Speaker 1: an invisible rule book around like what we should and
Speaker 1: shouldn't do right? Have you ever offered to go dutch
Speaker 1: on the first date?
Speaker 2: Like ask the girl you want to go dutch with me? Never,
Speaker 1: never. You've always offered to pay for. Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2: So personally, I think it should be whoever asked the
Speaker 2: other person to offer to pay first and also
Speaker 2: the first date. I think it's nice. Okay, that's certain
Speaker 2: gender norms when it comes to dating, right? Like you
Speaker 2: want to show that chivalry, isn't it? Gentlemen, and you
Speaker 2: want to pay.
Speaker 1: Yes. Okay. So
Speaker 2: I always offer to pay first and if the girl
Speaker 2: offers to split the bill with me, I'll be like,
Speaker 2: that's okay, You can give me the next time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then 2nd date, Huh? That's a good one.
Speaker 2: That's, that's what I tell myself. It's kind of smooth.
Speaker 2: But I don't know if it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there was no second date for some of them.
Speaker 2: You have to say to the camera, Okay, what about
Speaker 1: you?
Speaker 1: Um Okay. I'm a little bit more complex when it
Speaker 1: comes to these things. I don't know if it's like
Speaker 1: a girl thing or what, but usually, okay, more often
Speaker 1: than not, the guy offers to pay on the first
Speaker 1: date I will definitely offer. I'd be like, hey, like,
Speaker 1: do you want to split this? Or like, would you
Speaker 1: like to, you know or would you like to go
Speaker 1: for drinks after like you mentioned or get the next
Speaker 1: one or whatever. Usually they'll say no, but if they
Speaker 1: say like, okay, you get it or like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we can split.
Speaker 1: I might take it as maybe the date didn't go
Speaker 1: as well as I thought. Yeah. Am I overthinking? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think like my company wasn't like worth
Speaker 1: his while to like get me, you know, this is
Speaker 1: just me in my head. I don't actually for you
Speaker 2: offering to split the bill someone, Maybe it means like
Speaker 2: the day is not as well
Speaker 1: if it is, if it's not going well or if
Speaker 1: I have fully decided, I don't want to continue a
Speaker 1: second date. I would just say, don't worry, I got
Speaker 1: it
Speaker 1: or I don't know if that's rude, but I'll be like, hey,
Speaker 1: don't worry about this. I think we should split it.
Speaker 1: Like I'll be very firm about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if you don't order anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, basically
Speaker 2: interesting. Is
Speaker 1: it rude? Oh my God, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's not
Speaker 2: rude. It's just interesting.
Speaker 1: But most of the people that I have gone out
Speaker 1: for like dates with our dinner is just not a
Speaker 1: lot of dates. I mean, I usually end up like
Speaker 1: with them anyway. Yeah. So I haven't really had the
Speaker 1: experience of dating around
Speaker 1: several people like while I'm single. Yeah, done that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So
Speaker 1: yeah, get on it. It's time. It's time what's stopping you? Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, now everything is open and clubs are open
Speaker 1: and everything really right? Like
Speaker 2: why not?
Speaker 1: But do you think now in this day and age
Speaker 1: with social media with a lot of
Speaker 1: changing ideas and all that? These norms are shifting. I
Speaker 2: think slowly because we're opening up to more conversations online,
Speaker 2: especially on like Tiktok and stuff. People are not as
Speaker 2: afraid to discuss certain dating norms, certain invisible rules you
Speaker 2: have to abide by. Which is good. So people slowly
Speaker 2: think
Speaker 2: from the other perspective. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing is, you know, now in our
Speaker 1: generation to people are so open to talking about many,
Speaker 1: many different issues relationship status, genders. Everything like on social
Speaker 1: media and you know, in a public space. Right? So
Speaker 1: it's interesting because in this book called
Speaker 1: Amazing game, It talks about how LGBT Q relationships might
Speaker 1: be doing better because there's no gender norms and they
Speaker 1: strive for like an equal dating experience. So how do
Speaker 1: you feel about that?
Speaker 2: I don't really know too much about it. I've done
Speaker 2: some like feminism studies, but I don't know too much
Speaker 2: about the dating world in L. G. B. T. Q. Community.
Speaker 2: So I can't say much on their behalf, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I I can imagine it taking place like maybe
Speaker 2: they won't be
Speaker 2: as restricted as certain rules that we might face in.
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 1: that means also like, you know, when it comes down
Speaker 1: to dating, you would definitely just want to date someone
Speaker 1: who is on the same page as you have the
Speaker 1: same ideals
Speaker 2: for sure. And I think it's important on the first
Speaker 2: date right? To feel like you're being viewed as an
Speaker 2: equal half. Yeah, So let's see, I've heard arguments like
Speaker 2: the girls who tell me that, you know, I put
Speaker 2: in a
Speaker 2: time to do my makeup. I travel all the way
Speaker 2: down here. Yeah, I'm spending my evening with you. That's
Speaker 2: my fair share for the night and I'll be like, okay,
Speaker 2: that's cool. But I also take time to come down
Speaker 2: here to do
Speaker 1: your makeup, You know,
Speaker 2: makeup. I did like 10 seconds on my hair, 10 seconds,
Speaker 1: 10 seconds of your life went down into that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 2: did put in some effort as well. But I feel
Speaker 2: like the main point about
Speaker 2: Others to split the bill or just letting the other
Speaker 2: person know that we are equal when it comes to
Speaker 2: dating is very important because I feel like if the
Speaker 2: dating dynamics from the very start is not close to
Speaker 2: at least 50% or even 45%, it's gonna just go
Speaker 2: down here later on in the relationship.
Speaker 1: And I feel like what we addressed also about, you know,
Speaker 1: your career choices, the phase of life that you're in,
Speaker 1: your financial status, you know, where you're at
Speaker 1: in life and stuff like that, all that really comes
Speaker 1: into play when it comes to dating as well because
Speaker 1: imagine this, I mean, you know, I'm so proud of
Speaker 1: us women nowadays, like we are so much more career
Speaker 1: oriented now more than ever. Everyone is like, you know,
Speaker 1: I want to prioritize myself, I want to prioritize my career,
Speaker 1: I want to own my own apartment, things like that.
Speaker 1: I think that's super cool that a lot of young
Speaker 1: women out there are doing this now, which is you know,
Speaker 1: then throwing the ballet
Speaker 1: a little in regards of the old school way of thinking,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, old school is the man has to bring
Speaker 2: the food to the table, is going to provide for
Speaker 2: the family and I feel like a huge part of
Speaker 2: society still views it as the same old way Yeah,
Speaker 2: they'll be like, what is the purpose of a man
Speaker 2: not to bring food and provide for a family?
Speaker 1: Well, I had a very eye opening conversation with a
Speaker 1: friend of mine recently. He's this like super good looking dude.
Speaker 1: I mean an acquaintance, I don't really know him that well.
Speaker 1: Super good looking guy, you know, in a serious, serious
Speaker 1: relationship already and we were just chatting and stuff in
Speaker 1: a friend setting and we want the topic of relationships
Speaker 1: as well. So I said, hey, like, you know, you're doing,
Speaker 1: you're doing decently at work and stuff, but you've always
Speaker 1: said that you want to be a stay home dad.
Speaker 1: Like that's what he's always said,
Speaker 1: but his parents asian parents say no, you can't, you
Speaker 1: got to go out and work and he's like, but
Speaker 1: my girlfriend slash soon to be fiance wife is super
Speaker 1: successful and she's earning good money. Why can't I be
Speaker 1: the one staying at home? Because he actually doesn't mind
Speaker 1: doing the reverse that he doesn't mind taking care of
Speaker 1: the kids cleaning up. Like he loves doing that
Speaker 2: stuff. Okay, that's,
Speaker 1: that's great.
Speaker 2: I mean more than me
Speaker 2: put on a cute apron and I will with
Speaker 1: nothing underneath.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if that's what you like, right, right. I'm not
Speaker 2: judging here, but honestly, okay, I don't think I'm suitable
Speaker 2: to be like a stay at home dad. I can't
Speaker 2: stay home or you'll be too relaxing and then I
Speaker 2: would just lose track of whatever is in my life
Speaker 2: so I can't do that and I would appreciate if
Speaker 2: my partner goes out to work as well. So I
Speaker 2: wouldn't want to have like a stay at home partner,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Okay,
Speaker 1: so it has to be someone of an equal. You know,
Speaker 1: something I feel like
Speaker 2: sometimes if you have too much time to yourself, you
Speaker 2: just get lost.
Speaker 1: Yes, you don't know what to
Speaker 2: do. Yeah, I think it's kind of scary to do that.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, so you know what, all the best in
Speaker 1: your dating life, Please keep us
Speaker 2: updated. Sure. We
Speaker 1: can do a follow up mini episode your dating life
Speaker 1: in the next few months.
Speaker 2: Few months. Optimistic,
Speaker 1: optimistic. Okay, by the end of the year, which is
Speaker 1: also quite close.
Speaker 2: Sure, okay, I'll go and drink a bit more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll take
Speaker 1: next time we'll take you out. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us here today for baring it all on
Speaker 1: our episode. Once again, men explain its back. We're so
Speaker 1: excited to be back. Thank you so much for listening
Speaker 1: to this episode of Men explain if you liked it,
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Speaker 2: So if you want to find out more content like
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Speaker 1: Bye