1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,710 Speaker 1: Hi. Say so it's Azura and I'm Jermaine and welcome 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: back to Clem Hash podcast. Have you ever heard the 3 00:00:06,849 --> 00:00:10,390 Speaker 1: saying men are from Mars, women are from Venus, of course. 4 00:00:10,398 --> 00:00:12,470 Speaker 1: Where are you guys from? Singapore? Hell, 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,159 Speaker 1: yeah. As you can tell my friends are very different 6 00:00:17,059 --> 00:00:19,950 Speaker 1: today. We actually wanted to talk a little bit about 7 00:00:19,959 --> 00:00:24,889 Speaker 1: making the first move as a woman. Ok. This can 8 00:00:24,899 --> 00:00:28,159 Speaker 1: be in anything, right? But mostly in dating. I don't 9 00:00:28,170 --> 00:00:31,670 Speaker 1: know about you guys, but have you girls ever made 10 00:00:31,690 --> 00:00:34,909 Speaker 1: the first move? Like you the one to initiate something 11 00:00:34,918 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: with a guy in recent years? Yes, I like to 12 00:00:37,409 --> 00:00:40,699 Speaker 1: do it. So, what do you do? 13 00:00:43,740 --> 00:00:45,259 Speaker 1: I like to make the first move. I like to 14 00:00:45,270 --> 00:00:48,409 Speaker 1: ask the guy out first. I like to initiate different things. 15 00:00:48,418 --> 00:00:51,950 Speaker 1: Like what do you say? Play smooth la, play cool. 16 00:00:52,319 --> 00:00:54,549 Speaker 1: And then would you want to hang? I mean something 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,459 Speaker 1: as easy and simple as that innocent. I'm just kind 18 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:04,220 Speaker 1: of the innocent, innocent kind, not the but you would 19 00:01:04,230 --> 00:01:05,769 Speaker 1: make that first move even if they, 20 00:01:05,846 --> 00:01:08,986 Speaker 1: I haven't asked you, I don't see anything wrong with that. 21 00:01:08,996 --> 00:01:12,905 Speaker 1: So like for example, us already right? When it comes 22 00:01:12,916 --> 00:01:15,765 Speaker 1: to more serious conversations, for example, would you make the 23 00:01:15,776 --> 00:01:19,036 Speaker 1: first move? Of course, when it comes to maybe hugs 24 00:01:19,346 --> 00:01:22,456 Speaker 1: things more than their physical intimacy? I don't mind making 25 00:01:22,465 --> 00:01:25,526 Speaker 1: the first move as well. What do you mean like you? 26 00:01:26,155 --> 00:01:28,846 Speaker 1: I love you first? Oh OK. This one? 27 00:01:29,071 --> 00:01:32,722 Speaker 1: No. OK. OK. Have you said? Well, I think I 28 00:01:32,732 --> 00:01:36,351 Speaker 1: like you. Yeah, for sure. I love you are three 29 00:01:36,361 --> 00:01:38,581 Speaker 1: words that carry a lot of weight. Ok. I said 30 00:01:38,592 --> 00:01:41,982 Speaker 1: I love you. I would never ask a guy out first, 31 00:01:41,991 --> 00:01:44,772 Speaker 1: but I said I love you first. Really? In fact, 32 00:01:44,781 --> 00:01:47,331 Speaker 1: it's a stretch. What I said was I think I 33 00:01:47,382 --> 00:01:50,332 Speaker 1: might love you. Yeah, I think I might love you. 34 00:01:50,571 --> 00:01:52,001 Speaker 1: I was also a bit drunk 35 00:01:53,010 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: and then the next day I was like, did I 36 00:01:54,489 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: say that to you? Hey, hey, hey, do we have 37 00:01:56,730 --> 00:02:00,489 Speaker 1: a very important conversation? I'm a firm believer that of 38 00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:04,019 Speaker 1: drunk words and actions are sober. Thoughts fair enough. It's 39 00:02:04,029 --> 00:02:07,110 Speaker 1: not 100% accurate. But I would say that's 70% truth. 40 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,229 Speaker 1: I would never ask a guy out on a date 41 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,559 Speaker 1: or to hang because I wouldn't want to seem over eager. 42 00:02:14,570 --> 00:02:16,859 Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? I don't want to 43 00:02:16,869 --> 00:02:19,630 Speaker 1: seem like I'm coming on too strong as a girl. No, 44 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,750 Speaker 1: but I think that it also is a display 45 00:02:21,841 --> 00:02:24,421 Speaker 1: of affection, right? It shows the guy that, hey, you're 46 00:02:24,431 --> 00:02:26,671 Speaker 1: interested then maybe next time he can make the first 47 00:02:26,681 --> 00:02:29,011 Speaker 1: move or ask you out on the second day, right? 48 00:02:29,022 --> 00:02:31,141 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's like a ping pong session. Honestly, 49 00:02:31,151 --> 00:02:33,501 Speaker 1: for me, it was like if he wanted to, he would, 50 00:02:33,671 --> 00:02:35,971 Speaker 1: then you want to wait until how long sometimes, right? 51 00:02:35,981 --> 00:02:37,632 Speaker 1: You have to keep waiting and waiting. Then why not 52 00:02:37,641 --> 00:02:40,632 Speaker 1: just save yourself the trouble? Because when you wait, you 53 00:02:40,641 --> 00:02:42,761 Speaker 1: actually think about, oh when is he going to ask 54 00:02:42,772 --> 00:02:45,742 Speaker 1: me out? Is he ever going to, what is you 55 00:02:45,751 --> 00:02:48,431 Speaker 1: just make the first move? Ask the question. I feel 56 00:02:48,442 --> 00:02:50,582 Speaker 1: like there are two camps. There's one 57 00:02:50,723 --> 00:02:53,502 Speaker 1: c that have you heard of guys say like they 58 00:02:53,514 --> 00:02:56,113 Speaker 1: find it hard when women make the first move like 59 00:02:56,123 --> 00:02:59,373 Speaker 1: they like it when women make the first move. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 60 00:02:59,383 --> 00:03:03,633 Speaker 1: no on the street like just they find it sexy 61 00:03:03,643 --> 00:03:07,654 Speaker 1: and confident. Yeah. OK. But then there's also another camp 62 00:03:07,663 --> 00:03:11,833 Speaker 1: that believes that men inherently are supposed to be chasers 63 00:03:11,854 --> 00:03:15,893 Speaker 1: to lead to direct, correct. They are the ones with 64 00:03:15,904 --> 00:03:19,414 Speaker 1: the masculine energy, right? They are chases, 65 00:03:19,505 --> 00:03:21,876 Speaker 1: go get this and you need to allow them to 66 00:03:21,886 --> 00:03:24,335 Speaker 1: be that. I am more of that. The second camp 67 00:03:24,345 --> 00:03:26,984 Speaker 1: like you feel like men should be more proactive. But 68 00:03:26,996 --> 00:03:29,326 Speaker 1: then again, the way that you act will attract the 69 00:03:29,335 --> 00:03:32,615 Speaker 1: men that are in whichever camp there are, there's someone 70 00:03:32,626 --> 00:03:37,626 Speaker 1: for everyone there sometimes unknowingly you project stuff and that's 71 00:03:37,636 --> 00:03:40,776 Speaker 1: why you attract whatever pattern that you're attracting. But the 72 00:03:40,785 --> 00:03:43,746 Speaker 1: problem is I've heard when I was single. Not now 73 00:03:43,755 --> 00:03:46,626 Speaker 1: in the short thing that I was single, nobody really 74 00:03:46,656 --> 00:03:48,195 Speaker 1: dared to ask me out. 75 00:03:48,490 --> 00:03:52,169 Speaker 1: I think I come off as intimidating to people. So 76 00:03:52,179 --> 00:03:55,029 Speaker 1: no one really dared to ask me out. There was 77 00:03:55,039 --> 00:03:57,589 Speaker 1: only really like one guy that dared to ask me 78 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,300 Speaker 1: out for coffee. Yes, for a coffee. And this was 79 00:04:00,309 --> 00:04:03,070 Speaker 1: a guy that I met in the club, right? Obviously. 80 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: And you would think, ok, just let's lay it out here. 81 00:04:05,529 --> 00:04:07,330 Speaker 1: If you're trying to get someone in bed, you ask them, 82 00:04:07,449 --> 00:04:08,910 Speaker 1: do you want to go for a drink? Right? Do 83 00:04:08,919 --> 00:04:11,139 Speaker 1: you want to go for dinner and then drinks? But 84 00:04:11,149 --> 00:04:12,350 Speaker 1: he asked me out. He said I want to go 85 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,300 Speaker 1: for coffee in the day. I was like, I was 86 00:04:14,309 --> 00:04:15,869 Speaker 1: like who I was a bit taken aback. 87 00:04:16,329 --> 00:04:20,070 Speaker 1: The timing was not right at this time. My heart 88 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:23,769 Speaker 1: was already with someone else. So it didn't pan out. 89 00:04:23,779 --> 00:04:26,250 Speaker 1: I didn't go for the coffee. That's what I'm saying. 90 00:04:26,260 --> 00:04:28,429 Speaker 1: I think I would prefer a guy ask me out 91 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,570 Speaker 1: because then I can analyze what your intentions. If you 92 00:04:30,579 --> 00:04:32,269 Speaker 1: ask me for a drink, what do you want? OK. 93 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:33,899 Speaker 1: But if you ask me for a coffee, then maybe 94 00:04:33,910 --> 00:04:35,790 Speaker 1: you just want to say friends, I have such a 95 00:04:35,799 --> 00:04:38,149 Speaker 1: good impression. No. If you ask me out for a coffee, 96 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:39,649 Speaker 1: I don't think guys will have coffee. Just with a 97 00:04:39,660 --> 00:04:41,269 Speaker 1: girl for any reason. Like, would you? 98 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,899 Speaker 1: Yeah, you wouldn't just ask for a coffee. Like, let's 99 00:04:45,910 --> 00:04:48,950 Speaker 1: be friends. It's like a sign that you wanted to 100 00:04:48,959 --> 00:04:51,380 Speaker 1: lead somewhere, but maybe he wanted to show you that 101 00:04:51,390 --> 00:04:53,928 Speaker 1: he was a gentleman and not ask you out for 102 00:04:54,029 --> 00:04:58,299 Speaker 1: dinner and drinks on the first day. Right? Sorry. What 103 00:04:58,309 --> 00:05:02,149 Speaker 1: have you seen videos? Tons of them. I've seen where 104 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: girls are saying if 105 00:05:03,765 --> 00:05:07,474 Speaker 1: they ask you out for coffee, don't do it because 106 00:05:07,484 --> 00:05:11,104 Speaker 1: you're setting precedents that you can be casual. Like cheat 107 00:05:11,113 --> 00:05:13,355 Speaker 1: with me like you want to take me out, take 108 00:05:13,363 --> 00:05:16,345 Speaker 1: me out for dinner. Have you seen those video? No, 109 00:05:16,355 --> 00:05:19,774 Speaker 1: and I don't believe in that coffee is expensive these days. 110 00:05:19,785 --> 00:05:21,605 Speaker 1: I mean, not like coffee the right. If you bring 111 00:05:21,613 --> 00:05:23,285 Speaker 1: me to go eat like drink like coffee or 112 00:05:24,980 --> 00:05:28,988 Speaker 1: maybe it's because if you wanna date or if you're 113 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: interested in getting to know me, if there's an intention, 114 00:05:31,609 --> 00:05:34,149 Speaker 1: then maybe they wanted to be more intentional. Hey, I'm 115 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,630 Speaker 1: a cafe date over a dinner date. Kind of girl, man. 116 00:05:36,670 --> 00:05:39,709 Speaker 1: It's casual. It's not so serious, not so much pressure. 117 00:05:39,799 --> 00:05:43,570 Speaker 1: It's chill. It's fun. Right. Yeah, but asking someone out 118 00:05:43,579 --> 00:05:45,350 Speaker 1: on a date is one thing, right? I think we're 119 00:05:45,359 --> 00:05:47,709 Speaker 1: quite divided on that. I think that's fine. But then 120 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,339 Speaker 1: when it comes to chivalry, right? Paying on the 121 00:05:50,410 --> 00:05:53,369 Speaker 1: first day we've talked about this. It's very different than 122 00:05:53,380 --> 00:05:55,230 Speaker 1: asking out on a first date. Even if it's just 123 00:05:55,238 --> 00:05:57,769 Speaker 1: coffee paying on a first date, does it always have 124 00:05:57,779 --> 00:06:00,309 Speaker 1: to be the guy? Ok. I can definitely pay for 125 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,750 Speaker 1: my own coffee. But it would be nice if you 126 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,190 Speaker 1: offered to pay on the first day. Gentleman and on 127 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,729 Speaker 1: the second day, then I cheat you. If there is one, right? 128 00:06:09,738 --> 00:06:11,649 Speaker 1: If there's one, there's one. If I know that there's 129 00:06:11,660 --> 00:06:14,100 Speaker 1: gonna be no second date, then I might offer to 130 00:06:14,109 --> 00:06:15,109 Speaker 1: pay for the first one 131 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: because I don't owe you anything like which friends don't 132 00:06:20,910 --> 00:06:24,260 Speaker 1: come at us. We're all for equality in every everything. 133 00:06:25,269 --> 00:06:27,529 Speaker 1: I was not that we're double standards or whatever it is. 134 00:06:27,540 --> 00:06:30,859 Speaker 1: But again, I'd like to go back to, I think 135 00:06:30,869 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: the feminine and masculine energy thing is very real and 136 00:06:33,809 --> 00:06:38,519 Speaker 1: I think it's very inbuilt in people. You can't change that. Hence, 137 00:06:38,529 --> 00:06:41,429 Speaker 1: that's why it tells us something when you are 138 00:06:41,529 --> 00:06:43,649 Speaker 1: prefer to pay on the first day. It's true. And 139 00:06:43,660 --> 00:06:46,809 Speaker 1: this actually comes from years and years. I'm pretty sure 140 00:06:47,010 --> 00:06:51,029 Speaker 1: in the 18th century somewhere, right? An English man would 141 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,220 Speaker 1: send a pigeon with a love letter. What will his 142 00:06:54,230 --> 00:06:59,109 Speaker 1: name be? Edward? At a pigeon? The pigeon. We love 143 00:06:59,119 --> 00:07:02,488 Speaker 1: my dear Julie yet. Ok. Yeah, you know, would you 144 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:05,269 Speaker 1: care to come on a date with me? You know, 145 00:07:05,709 --> 00:07:06,959 Speaker 1: like that's the step 146 00:07:07,089 --> 00:07:11,170 Speaker 1: and then we were ingrained in us. My carriage shall 147 00:07:11,179 --> 00:07:13,940 Speaker 1: be waiting for you at 8 p.m. Now you want 148 00:07:13,950 --> 00:07:17,730 Speaker 1: to grab a and at the train station last cabin. 149 00:07:17,839 --> 00:07:21,750 Speaker 1: So this is like in history, it's always been very patriarchal. 150 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,350 Speaker 1: It's always been like the man has to court the woman. 151 00:07:24,359 --> 00:07:28,130 Speaker 1: Like have you guys seen? Yeah, you have to court 152 00:07:28,140 --> 00:07:31,260 Speaker 1: the woman, you have to present yourself and all that. 153 00:07:31,269 --> 00:07:32,540 Speaker 1: So it comes from there, 154 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,309 Speaker 1: right? Yes. Our PD actually said when it comes to 155 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,609 Speaker 1: casual dating, I always make the first move. IP is 156 00:07:39,619 --> 00:07:41,070 Speaker 1: a girl, but that's because I want to make sure 157 00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:43,950 Speaker 1: the date aligns with my schedule and I don't like surprises. 158 00:07:43,959 --> 00:07:46,390 Speaker 1: So I will plan ahead and also I will plan 159 00:07:46,399 --> 00:07:49,769 Speaker 1: the escape route if I need it. Oh my God, 160 00:07:49,779 --> 00:07:52,470 Speaker 1: it's like the, you call your girlfriend and you're like 161 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,989 Speaker 1: level 10 emergency then then the friend is like, ok, 162 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,910 Speaker 1: I'll call crying, put me on speaker. 163 00:08:01,089 --> 00:08:05,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's our PD making the first move. But 164 00:08:05,089 --> 00:08:08,630 Speaker 1: the escape is dating me. I said you're not very interested. 165 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:09,730 Speaker 1: Which PD is this? 166 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: Oh, I see. Interesting. Do you think it's irritating when 167 00:08:16,010 --> 00:08:19,459 Speaker 1: guys say like, oh, let's hang, would you rather them 168 00:08:19,470 --> 00:08:21,059 Speaker 1: say I want to take you out? But then it 169 00:08:21,070 --> 00:08:23,399 Speaker 1: becomes more serious if they say I want to take 170 00:08:23,410 --> 00:08:25,329 Speaker 1: you out, right? Let's hang. I think it leaves more 171 00:08:25,339 --> 00:08:29,140 Speaker 1: space for escape plans like you mentioned. Yeah, escape plans. 172 00:08:29,149 --> 00:08:32,159 Speaker 1: But it's very like modern day thing that makes like, 173 00:08:32,169 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, chivalry dead. How would 174 00:08:33,750 --> 00:08:35,390 Speaker 1: you get out of a date that you didn't want 175 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,450 Speaker 1: to be in. No, I would get through it and 176 00:08:37,460 --> 00:08:39,569 Speaker 1: never see him again. You would stay till the end. 177 00:08:39,659 --> 00:08:43,099 Speaker 1: What is it like? So you out bail on a 178 00:08:43,109 --> 00:08:47,669 Speaker 1: date halfway disappeared. I have barely been on the how 179 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,429 Speaker 1: to bail on the day. I would probably just go 180 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,729 Speaker 1: to the toilet and never come back and leave him hanging, 181 00:08:53,780 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: but I'll pay for the bill, but then I'll never 182 00:08:55,409 --> 00:08:55,929 Speaker 1: come back. 183 00:08:56,830 --> 00:08:59,609 Speaker 1: But it is respect for me. Like, you know, I 184 00:08:59,619 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't want my date to do this or so at 185 00:09:01,409 --> 00:09:03,669 Speaker 1: least tell me and then like, ok, sure, we can 186 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,049 Speaker 1: end it there. We can just go home on our 187 00:09:06,059 --> 00:09:08,750 Speaker 1: separate ways. True. Shall we do a quick little experiment? 188 00:09:09,020 --> 00:09:10,809 Speaker 1: You think we should call some guys right now and 189 00:09:10,820 --> 00:09:12,989 Speaker 1: find out whether they think which camp is it? Do 190 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,690 Speaker 1: they think it's hot that a girl asked them out first? 191 00:09:15,700 --> 00:09:17,968 Speaker 1: Or would they rather be the one to let me 192 00:09:17,979 --> 00:09:20,478 Speaker 1: call Avery? I knew it. I don't know what he's doing. 193 00:09:20,489 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: He's probably at the gym or boxing or? Let's find out. Hi. 194 00:09:25,539 --> 00:09:28,900 Speaker 1: What are you doing? Can I ask you something? We're 195 00:09:28,909 --> 00:09:33,919 Speaker 1: filming Hush Podcast now. Say hi, hi. Hello. Hi. Do 196 00:09:33,929 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: you think it's hot when a girl asks you out 197 00:09:36,210 --> 00:09:38,669 Speaker 1: on a first date or makes the first move? Yeah, 198 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: of course. 199 00:09:39,409 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 2: Why? Because it kind of breaks like that whole stigma 200 00:09:43,690 --> 00:09:46,409 Speaker 2: of guys having to be the ones to always be 201 00:09:46,419 --> 00:09:47,949 Speaker 2: the ones to ask first. And I think it takes 202 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,549 Speaker 2: a lot of courage for girls to have that kind 203 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,159 Speaker 2: of confidence to ask you. Do you not 204 00:09:51,169 --> 00:09:52,598 Speaker 1: feel like it's 205 00:09:52,770 --> 00:09:56,039 Speaker 1: a guy to want to chase or to be the 206 00:09:56,049 --> 00:09:57,460 Speaker 1: hunters for that matter to 207 00:09:57,469 --> 00:10:00,988 Speaker 2: court? I mean, I think that is also a cultural 208 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,609 Speaker 2: thing that it becomes so like, ingrained in us that 209 00:10:03,619 --> 00:10:05,059 Speaker 2: a guy are supposed to be the ones to do it. 210 00:10:05,070 --> 00:10:07,159 Speaker 2: But I do believe that when a girl does it is, 211 00:10:07,169 --> 00:10:09,289 Speaker 2: I wouldn't say like a massive turn on, but like 212 00:10:09,299 --> 00:10:11,030 Speaker 2: I would be like, oh, you know, she actually took 213 00:10:11,039 --> 00:10:13,419 Speaker 2: the courage to ask me out. So yeah, I think 214 00:10:13,429 --> 00:10:13,590 Speaker 2: it is 215 00:10:13,599 --> 00:10:20,179 Speaker 1: attractive. Any other burning questions? Thank you. OK, thanks. Love you. Bye. 216 00:10:20,700 --> 00:10:25,260 Speaker 1: We've heard from one guy. Interesting. It does take a 217 00:10:25,270 --> 00:10:27,429 Speaker 1: lot of courage. I used to think that girls shouldn't 218 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,739 Speaker 1: make the first move until one girlfriend told me that 219 00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:32,669 Speaker 1: I only date guys I go after and I thought 220 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,689 Speaker 1: that like that shed some clarity on me because she 221 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:38,409 Speaker 1: knows what are the type of guys that she likes? 222 00:10:38,429 --> 00:10:40,020 Speaker 1: And she can't expect like this type of guys who 223 00:10:40,030 --> 00:10:42,070 Speaker 1: always come after her. So it's ok that make the 224 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,169 Speaker 1: first move. So that's where she's coming from. The success rate. 225 00:10:45,369 --> 00:10:48,169 Speaker 1: I haven't been in touch with her in recent times. 226 00:10:48,179 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: So she told 227 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,739 Speaker 1: this back when we're still studying together. So I don't 228 00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:54,179 Speaker 1: know what it's like, I mean, that is when we 229 00:10:54,190 --> 00:10:56,569 Speaker 1: try to take the lead in dating, I think it's 230 00:10:56,580 --> 00:10:58,900 Speaker 1: nice to hear from a guy. It's nice to hear that, 231 00:10:58,909 --> 00:11:01,390 Speaker 1: you know, it can be quite sexy. It can be 232 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,218 Speaker 1: quite attractive to actually make the first move when it 233 00:11:05,229 --> 00:11:08,609 Speaker 1: comes to our careers though. It's so different. It's even 234 00:11:08,619 --> 00:11:10,619 Speaker 1: more so for me, here's what I heard from a 235 00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:13,919 Speaker 1: lot of guys is that guys are revered for their 236 00:11:13,929 --> 00:11:16,780 Speaker 1: societal status, for their financial gain. 237 00:11:17,229 --> 00:11:20,539 Speaker 1: Women, traditionally, I'm not saying we're not review for anything else. 238 00:11:20,549 --> 00:11:23,919 Speaker 1: But I'm saying historically, women are reviewed for their physical 239 00:11:23,929 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: appearance and that makes it so much so that guys 240 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,450 Speaker 1: are very aggressive in their careers. But women who are 241 00:11:30,460 --> 00:11:34,130 Speaker 1: very aggressive in their careers sometimes find it hard to 242 00:11:34,140 --> 00:11:36,618 Speaker 1: settle down. What do you think? I think when it 243 00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:39,179 Speaker 1: comes to my career is even more so for me, 244 00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:41,619 Speaker 1: in the sense that I'm even more proactive than when 245 00:11:41,630 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: it comes to my dating life. Ok. I will 246 00:11:43,533 --> 00:11:45,833 Speaker 1: always want to take the first move, take the first step, 247 00:11:45,843 --> 00:11:48,572 Speaker 1: make projects happen for me because this is my career. 248 00:11:48,583 --> 00:11:51,793 Speaker 1: It concerns me and nobody else. Yes. Well, I do 249 00:11:51,802 --> 00:11:54,672 Speaker 1: agree with Jimmy that, you know, traditionally men is a 250 00:11:54,682 --> 00:11:57,802 Speaker 1: typical breadwinner. Women are known for their looks. But I 251 00:11:57,812 --> 00:12:00,333 Speaker 1: think things are changing now, especially in Singapore where women, 252 00:12:00,343 --> 00:12:02,953 Speaker 1: we have more of a say, we have gentle voices, 253 00:12:02,963 --> 00:12:06,723 Speaker 1: louder discussions. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's changing and I 254 00:12:06,732 --> 00:12:09,192 Speaker 1: like this change. But do you think that compared to 255 00:12:09,203 --> 00:12:09,833 Speaker 1: your male count 256 00:12:09,926 --> 00:12:12,655 Speaker 1: parts? Right? In the same job, same roles, do you 257 00:12:12,666 --> 00:12:14,245 Speaker 1: feel like you have to work harder or do you 258 00:12:14,255 --> 00:12:17,175 Speaker 1: feel that you're treated differently? No, not at all. At 259 00:12:17,184 --> 00:12:20,176 Speaker 1: least in my company in where I work at, we 260 00:12:20,184 --> 00:12:22,815 Speaker 1: are all treated very equally. And in fact, I feel 261 00:12:22,825 --> 00:12:26,625 Speaker 1: like sometimes women, we have an additional advantage over men. Yeah, 262 00:12:26,635 --> 00:12:29,435 Speaker 1: and extra edge of men, don't you feel? So maybe 263 00:12:29,445 --> 00:12:31,526 Speaker 1: it's because we are in this industry, the media industry 264 00:12:31,535 --> 00:12:33,385 Speaker 1: and sometimes we have to do up and stuff like that. 265 00:12:33,395 --> 00:12:35,556 Speaker 1: We get to try different styles. We get to represent 266 00:12:35,565 --> 00:12:36,226 Speaker 1: ourselves in 267 00:12:36,690 --> 00:12:39,229 Speaker 1: many more ways than men can. I think we're very 268 00:12:39,239 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: fortunate because I also feel like I haven't felt that 269 00:12:42,530 --> 00:12:48,179 Speaker 1: difference in the workplace. Right? Yeah. No such discrimination. I 270 00:12:48,190 --> 00:12:53,098 Speaker 1: feel not so much in our workplace, correct industry. So 271 00:12:53,109 --> 00:12:54,809 Speaker 1: was there a moment when you guys felt the urge 272 00:12:54,820 --> 00:12:57,949 Speaker 1: to make a strong career decision despite your fears? Ok. 273 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,039 Speaker 1: For me, it was back when I was 22 274 00:13:00,291 --> 00:13:04,031 Speaker 1: 2016. At the time I joined the radio competition. Honestly, 275 00:13:04,041 --> 00:13:05,872 Speaker 1: I never knew where it was going to bring me. 276 00:13:05,881 --> 00:13:08,791 Speaker 1: I don't even know like if the amount of money 277 00:13:08,892 --> 00:13:11,790 Speaker 1: I was going to make every month is gonna help me. 278 00:13:11,802 --> 00:13:14,062 Speaker 1: Can I save, will I be able to grow some 279 00:13:14,072 --> 00:13:16,872 Speaker 1: savings and give my parents money, stuff like that. But 280 00:13:16,881 --> 00:13:19,122 Speaker 1: I still went ahead because I felt like women, we 281 00:13:19,131 --> 00:13:22,221 Speaker 1: should chase after our dreams, which is women are men 282 00:13:22,231 --> 00:13:22,721 Speaker 1: as well. 283 00:13:24,004 --> 00:13:26,213 Speaker 1: It's never been about gender for me. It's always been 284 00:13:26,223 --> 00:13:29,103 Speaker 1: about myself. Like what Hazy said, right? It's building a 285 00:13:29,114 --> 00:13:33,123 Speaker 1: career for yourself. I don't think most Singaporean women have 286 00:13:33,133 --> 00:13:35,323 Speaker 1: like the sense of, oh, you know, I don't want 287 00:13:35,333 --> 00:13:38,353 Speaker 1: to be too career focused because it's not sexy. You know, 288 00:13:38,364 --> 00:13:40,994 Speaker 1: I want to just focus on being a domesticated goddess. 289 00:13:41,004 --> 00:13:43,004 Speaker 1: I learn how to cook and plant a garden, things 290 00:13:43,013 --> 00:13:45,693 Speaker 1: like that. But I don't think we have that mindset, right? 291 00:13:45,703 --> 00:13:47,624 Speaker 1: But some people still do. Correct. 292 00:13:47,796 --> 00:13:50,495 Speaker 1: I'm known of people, right? That if given a choice 293 00:13:50,505 --> 00:13:54,135 Speaker 1: between going to try and succeed in your own career 294 00:13:54,145 --> 00:13:56,455 Speaker 1: or choosing to have kids and be a trophy wife, 295 00:13:56,466 --> 00:13:58,536 Speaker 1: they will choose to have kids and be a trophy wife. 296 00:13:58,546 --> 00:14:01,145 Speaker 1: But nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong. Nothing at all. 297 00:14:01,505 --> 00:14:03,546 Speaker 1: You just want that extra time with your Children, which 298 00:14:03,556 --> 00:14:08,064 Speaker 1: we totally respect. Right? 100%. Ok. Here's something that I've 299 00:14:08,075 --> 00:14:11,296 Speaker 1: heard and it really made me feel like, 300 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,549 Speaker 1: wow, you know, maybe it's so great and we're so 301 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,339 Speaker 1: fortunate that we're in a time like this. So basically 302 00:14:18,419 --> 00:14:21,500 Speaker 1: I was walking out of a relationship. I had spoken 303 00:14:21,510 --> 00:14:25,059 Speaker 1: to a family member of the other party. Ok? 304 00:14:25,849 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: She looks at me, she says, I understand what you 305 00:14:29,330 --> 00:14:34,590 Speaker 1: mean because this person that I'm married to is the same. 306 00:14:35,099 --> 00:14:38,549 Speaker 1: But I'm not like you, I'm dependent on him in 307 00:14:38,559 --> 00:14:43,599 Speaker 1: what ways monetarily just, you know, take it back 30 308 00:14:43,609 --> 00:14:47,030 Speaker 1: years ago where the woman is a homemaker dependent on 309 00:14:47,039 --> 00:14:50,380 Speaker 1: her husband. And when she said that it hit me 310 00:14:50,390 --> 00:14:52,619 Speaker 1: that some people back then did not have the option 311 00:14:52,630 --> 00:14:55,309 Speaker 1: of a now when they were unhappy and we have 312 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,809 Speaker 1: that option of it out because we, first of all 313 00:14:57,820 --> 00:15:00,770 Speaker 1: are brave enough to make these decisions for ourselves. And secondly, 314 00:15:00,780 --> 00:15:04,150 Speaker 1: because we can provide for ourselves financially, 315 00:15:04,245 --> 00:15:07,185 Speaker 1: imagine being in that position where you want and now, 316 00:15:07,195 --> 00:15:10,366 Speaker 1: but you've been reliant on another person, you don't have 317 00:15:10,375 --> 00:15:14,026 Speaker 1: one because traditionally, at that time, the man was the 318 00:15:14,036 --> 00:15:16,755 Speaker 1: breadwinner of the family, right? The women never got the 319 00:15:16,765 --> 00:15:18,825 Speaker 1: chance to go and make a career from themselves. And 320 00:15:18,835 --> 00:15:20,885 Speaker 1: what are you going to do at that age? Like 321 00:15:20,895 --> 00:15:23,385 Speaker 1: it's easier to just stay in that situation than to 322 00:15:23,395 --> 00:15:26,526 Speaker 1: leave and try and make a life for yourself again. 323 00:15:26,536 --> 00:15:30,036 Speaker 1: It sometimes it's too late at that stage. I mean, 324 00:15:30,046 --> 00:15:33,005 Speaker 1: I don't think any of us here think men should 325 00:15:33,015 --> 00:15:33,346 Speaker 1: be the same 326 00:15:33,442 --> 00:15:37,021 Speaker 1: breadwinner of the family. Not at all. Most families can't 327 00:15:37,031 --> 00:15:39,781 Speaker 1: even survive on a single income because the cost of 328 00:15:39,791 --> 00:15:42,181 Speaker 1: living in Singapore is too high. So I think that 329 00:15:42,192 --> 00:15:45,062 Speaker 1: has really shaped a lot of women's mindsets into thinking 330 00:15:45,072 --> 00:15:48,161 Speaker 1: it has to be a double income household, even with kids, 331 00:15:48,171 --> 00:15:50,642 Speaker 1: a family. It doesn't matter. But isn't it great to, 332 00:15:50,651 --> 00:15:52,021 Speaker 1: what do you call it? Bake your own bread, make 333 00:15:52,031 --> 00:15:54,622 Speaker 1: your own money or you are able to provide for 334 00:15:54,632 --> 00:15:57,302 Speaker 1: yourself without being dependent on the amount of money that 335 00:15:57,312 --> 00:15:59,171 Speaker 1: your husband is going to give you every month. I 336 00:15:59,182 --> 00:16:02,411 Speaker 1: think it's a very empowering feeling. Definitely. And I think 337 00:16:02,421 --> 00:16:02,531 Speaker 1: so 338 00:16:02,638 --> 00:16:05,338 Speaker 1: thing that haunts me or something that I'll never be 339 00:16:05,348 --> 00:16:09,817 Speaker 1: able to do is to ask someone for permission when 340 00:16:09,828 --> 00:16:11,978 Speaker 1: I want to spend money. Yes. Or when I want 341 00:16:11,987 --> 00:16:14,627 Speaker 1: to buy something because that money is not mine. It 342 00:16:14,747 --> 00:16:17,197 Speaker 1: drives me insane like that thought of it. So I 343 00:16:17,208 --> 00:16:19,297 Speaker 1: don't know how to do it. I understand. Yeah. I 344 00:16:19,307 --> 00:16:21,768 Speaker 1: think it is very empowering to have your own money. 345 00:16:21,778 --> 00:16:23,588 Speaker 1: I think for me it was a bit a twisted 346 00:16:23,598 --> 00:16:26,458 Speaker 1: situation for many years. I wouldn't say a breadwinner. I 347 00:16:26,468 --> 00:16:28,768 Speaker 1: don't have a family, right. But I was the more 348 00:16:28,778 --> 00:16:31,728 Speaker 1: financially capable one for many years and I 349 00:16:31,833 --> 00:16:35,294 Speaker 1: still am. But now I'm understanding a bit more of 350 00:16:35,304 --> 00:16:38,273 Speaker 1: the feminine side of it, of like taking a back seat, 351 00:16:38,343 --> 00:16:41,684 Speaker 1: letting someone else plan the day, letting someone else plan 352 00:16:41,693 --> 00:16:45,434 Speaker 1: the holiday, letting someone else buy you a gift for once, right? 353 00:16:45,443 --> 00:16:46,883 Speaker 1: Like it used to be always me. Like if it 354 00:16:46,893 --> 00:16:48,414 Speaker 1: was my birthday, I will buy myself a cake, I'll 355 00:16:48,424 --> 00:16:50,914 Speaker 1: plan it. And then this year my boyfriend actually said 356 00:16:50,924 --> 00:16:53,864 Speaker 1: to me, no, I'm gonna, I'll arrange everything. I'll plan 357 00:16:53,874 --> 00:16:56,184 Speaker 1: everything out, it's just nice to be taken care of. 358 00:16:56,193 --> 00:16:58,934 Speaker 1: Sometimes I never had that, you know, in this way 359 00:16:58,943 --> 00:17:00,934 Speaker 1: for many years. So it's just nice to 360 00:17:01,030 --> 00:17:06,329 Speaker 1: be a soft feminine girl for what she's in her era, 361 00:17:06,339 --> 00:17:09,209 Speaker 1: not so masculine. But yeah, I do think that especially 362 00:17:09,219 --> 00:17:11,630 Speaker 1: in a workplace, right, with women and men is very 363 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,389 Speaker 1: different when you come out as assertive. Like when you 364 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,530 Speaker 1: assert like I want this right? Or you're in a 365 00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: meeting and you say I really, really believe in this. 366 00:17:18,569 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: I strongly believe in this. I think a lot of 367 00:17:20,530 --> 00:17:24,459 Speaker 1: times women are seen as emotional creatures, men are seen 368 00:17:24,469 --> 00:17:28,209 Speaker 1: as logical creatures. It makes things very complicated in the workplace. 369 00:17:28,420 --> 00:17:30,129 Speaker 1: They will just think she's just pmsing. 370 00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:33,189 Speaker 1: So do you guys feel that because women are seen 371 00:17:33,199 --> 00:17:36,979 Speaker 1: as emotional creatures? Right? You try to be less emotional 372 00:17:36,989 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: so that you're taken more seriously at work? No, I 373 00:17:41,770 --> 00:17:44,819 Speaker 1: feel like this is interesting because especially in our industry, 374 00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:48,250 Speaker 1: it helps that we're emotional. No, seriously. I feel like 375 00:17:48,260 --> 00:17:51,728 Speaker 1: emotions help us become creative. Oh, yes, it's true. Right? 376 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,209 Speaker 1: But if let's say I'm feeling something and I'm trying 377 00:17:54,219 --> 00:17:56,629 Speaker 1: to get a point across, I do have the thought 378 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: that oh, I don't want someone to be able to 379 00:17:58,569 --> 00:18:00,339 Speaker 1: say that she's acting based on 380 00:18:00,410 --> 00:18:03,010 Speaker 1: emotions or she's just being emotional. She's just saying that 381 00:18:03,020 --> 00:18:06,060 Speaker 1: because she's being emotional. So I give myself the time 382 00:18:06,069 --> 00:18:08,969 Speaker 1: to write those feelings out first and then it feels 383 00:18:08,979 --> 00:18:11,890 Speaker 1: like I need to be logical. I need to make 384 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:14,979 Speaker 1: sure whatever I say is gonna sound like it's coming 385 00:18:14,989 --> 00:18:17,839 Speaker 1: from logic and not emotions. I'm the same way. I 386 00:18:17,849 --> 00:18:20,630 Speaker 1: literally like before I go into any big conversation, 387 00:18:20,939 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: I have to take check on my emotions first, I 388 00:18:23,050 --> 00:18:25,599 Speaker 1: write down all the logical points I want to hit 389 00:18:25,660 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: and I memorize them just because I don't wanna, when 390 00:18:28,410 --> 00:18:31,449 Speaker 1: I get emotional, it does affect the quality of the point. 391 00:18:31,459 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: I'm trying to put across. I've also heard people like, 392 00:18:34,290 --> 00:18:37,939 Speaker 1: feel the need to say my female boss. You don't 393 00:18:37,949 --> 00:18:40,729 Speaker 1: say your male boss? That's true. You've heard that 394 00:18:40,829 --> 00:18:42,699 Speaker 1: right? You've heard people say like, oh, I've got a 395 00:18:42,709 --> 00:18:46,099 Speaker 1: female boss. It's like implying something, you know, I have 396 00:18:46,109 --> 00:18:50,170 Speaker 1: few bosses. I love them. Oh, yes, yes. Actually watching this, 397 00:18:50,180 --> 00:18:54,290 Speaker 1: most of our bosses, all females in an entertainment industry, 398 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:58,149 Speaker 1: we have a lot of female colleagues. Bosses is very natural. 399 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,310 Speaker 1: I find that female bosses are a lot more 400 00:19:00,939 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: pathetic. I like a female boss. But here's the thing, right? 401 00:19:05,770 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: I feel like at the workplace when it's a work setting, 402 00:19:09,050 --> 00:19:10,670 Speaker 1: maybe it's just me correct me if I'm wrong. But 403 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,140 Speaker 1: maybe women feel braver to be bolder at work to 404 00:19:15,150 --> 00:19:18,719 Speaker 1: make first moves at work because there's less to lose. 405 00:19:18,729 --> 00:19:21,650 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? It's a workplace. I asked 406 00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:23,589 Speaker 1: for it if I get, I get, I don't, I don't, 407 00:19:23,709 --> 00:19:26,130 Speaker 1: I'm happy. I say it if I'm in a position 408 00:19:26,140 --> 00:19:28,629 Speaker 1: where I'm leading people where I'm leading a team, for example, 409 00:19:28,910 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: I 410 00:19:29,385 --> 00:19:32,614 Speaker 1: set the rules, I set the boundaries, I lead, right basically. 411 00:19:32,805 --> 00:19:35,454 Speaker 1: But I think maybe women get a little bit more 412 00:19:35,464 --> 00:19:37,885 Speaker 1: afraid when it's like matters of the heart. When your 413 00:19:37,895 --> 00:19:40,004 Speaker 1: heart is on the line, you're a bit more afraid 414 00:19:40,015 --> 00:19:42,724 Speaker 1: to put it out there because emotional, but at the workplace, 415 00:19:42,734 --> 00:19:44,524 Speaker 1: your heart is not exactly on the line. You know, 416 00:19:44,535 --> 00:19:46,823 Speaker 1: whether people think you're a bitch or not. And sometimes 417 00:19:46,834 --> 00:19:48,145 Speaker 1: we don't really care like you think I'm a bitch, 418 00:19:48,185 --> 00:19:50,714 Speaker 1: I'm a bitch like work is getting done. So maybe 419 00:19:50,724 --> 00:19:52,464 Speaker 1: because of that they are a little bit braver to 420 00:19:52,474 --> 00:19:54,925 Speaker 1: make fast moves that were as a society, right? I 421 00:19:54,935 --> 00:19:57,275 Speaker 1: think we can kind of watch a bit more of 422 00:19:57,285 --> 00:19:57,714 Speaker 1: the vocal 423 00:19:58,199 --> 00:20:01,139 Speaker 1: that we use in the workplace to describe women and men. 424 00:20:01,150 --> 00:20:03,729 Speaker 1: Like for example, if a woman or a man, you know, 425 00:20:03,739 --> 00:20:07,170 Speaker 1: says something very controversial during a meeting, people would describe 426 00:20:07,180 --> 00:20:10,609 Speaker 1: the woman as she's so bossy, she's so like naggy. 427 00:20:10,619 --> 00:20:13,290 Speaker 1: But they would describe the man as, oh, maybe he's 428 00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:16,859 Speaker 1: coming on strong. It's a strong point like the vocabulary 429 00:20:16,869 --> 00:20:19,410 Speaker 1: in the words that you use. The language also does 430 00:20:19,420 --> 00:20:23,060 Speaker 1: perpetuate these stereotypes again and again, correct. But you know 431 00:20:23,069 --> 00:20:25,930 Speaker 1: what of recent times, I think there's a tool that really, 432 00:20:25,939 --> 00:20:26,170 Speaker 1: really 433 00:20:26,395 --> 00:20:31,484 Speaker 1: helped women feel more powerful and that's social media, don't 434 00:20:31,494 --> 00:20:33,724 Speaker 1: you think we have had guests on a harsh podcast 435 00:20:33,734 --> 00:20:38,185 Speaker 1: before Rachel from Love Bonito, Naomi Neil, OG blogger. I 436 00:20:38,194 --> 00:20:42,025 Speaker 1: do feel like they have made such strong impacts via 437 00:20:42,035 --> 00:20:45,094 Speaker 1: social media. This in turn makes them more confident and 438 00:20:45,104 --> 00:20:47,313 Speaker 1: feel better about themselves. So that's what I'm saying. There's 439 00:20:47,324 --> 00:20:50,494 Speaker 1: a community out there that is for you, no matter 440 00:20:50,505 --> 00:20:52,854 Speaker 1: what kind of lives you're leading at home or in 441 00:20:52,864 --> 00:20:54,614 Speaker 1: the office, we just have to shed that 442 00:20:55,130 --> 00:20:58,810 Speaker 1: idea of like, feminine means. You have to be more passive, 443 00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:02,939 Speaker 1: more submissive. I think the roles of feminine and masculine, 444 00:21:02,949 --> 00:21:04,989 Speaker 1: not just in terms of personality, but in terms of 445 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,979 Speaker 1: like dressing in terms of all that, you know, I 446 00:21:06,989 --> 00:21:09,010 Speaker 1: love it when a guy has nail polish on. Yeah, 447 00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:11,770 Speaker 1: I think, I think it's cute. Yeah. And these are 448 00:21:11,780 --> 00:21:14,130 Speaker 1: like straight men. They're not even, you know, bi or 449 00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:16,379 Speaker 1: gay or anything, but I love it. Yeah. When they 450 00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:20,239 Speaker 1: bend stereotypes, stereotypes are meant to be broken. I fully agree. 451 00:21:20,250 --> 00:21:23,050 Speaker 1: Just like rules. No, 452 00:21:23,535 --> 00:21:28,214 Speaker 1: not the law, not the law. Rules. Rules. I actually 453 00:21:28,224 --> 00:21:31,015 Speaker 1: have a friend many, many years ago and I would say, wow, 454 00:21:31,025 --> 00:21:33,594 Speaker 1: this is more than 10 years ago. She proposed to 455 00:21:33,604 --> 00:21:37,895 Speaker 1: her husband, what she got down on one knee. She did, 456 00:21:38,204 --> 00:21:40,734 Speaker 1: they were on a road trip. He was driving, she 457 00:21:40,744 --> 00:21:45,063 Speaker 1: pulled out a ring and said marry me. And it's 458 00:21:45,074 --> 00:21:47,984 Speaker 1: like 10 years ago. Nice. I mean, as much as 459 00:21:47,994 --> 00:21:50,645 Speaker 1: I enjoy listening to such stories, I think. It's hard 460 00:21:50,655 --> 00:21:51,504 Speaker 1: to picture myself 461 00:21:51,609 --> 00:21:54,458 Speaker 1: in this situation. I would still want my other half 462 00:21:54,469 --> 00:21:58,050 Speaker 1: to propose to me. Yeah. You know, it's just gonna 463 00:21:58,060 --> 00:22:00,069 Speaker 1: happen once in a lifetime. So I just want to 464 00:22:00,079 --> 00:22:02,900 Speaker 1: enjoy it. So, in a sense, it's still a bit 465 00:22:02,910 --> 00:22:05,688 Speaker 1: traditional some ways I think. So. I feel like I'm 466 00:22:05,699 --> 00:22:08,109 Speaker 1: very proactive when it comes to work. I've been so 467 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,849 Speaker 1: independent when it comes to my career that I don't 468 00:22:10,859 --> 00:22:13,430 Speaker 1: want to be independent when it comes to my relationship anymore. 469 00:22:13,729 --> 00:22:15,900 Speaker 1: I just want someone to rely on. Of course, I 470 00:22:15,910 --> 00:22:18,829 Speaker 1: don't mind paying for meals. I mean, we should take 471 00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:19,910 Speaker 1: turns but it's only right. 472 00:22:20,055 --> 00:22:22,425 Speaker 1: I don't mind asking him out on dates and stuff 473 00:22:22,435 --> 00:22:24,755 Speaker 1: like that, planning stuff. I think it's great. But when 474 00:22:24,765 --> 00:22:27,805 Speaker 1: it comes to the bigger events of our lives, I 475 00:22:27,814 --> 00:22:29,685 Speaker 1: feel like it would be nice if he takes the lead. 476 00:22:29,694 --> 00:22:33,395 Speaker 1: Have you also heard about people say like women who 477 00:22:33,405 --> 00:22:36,775 Speaker 1: have careers and whole powerful positions that work, they tend 478 00:22:36,785 --> 00:22:38,474 Speaker 1: to want to take a back seat at home because 479 00:22:38,484 --> 00:22:41,244 Speaker 1: they spent the entire day taking care of everything they 480 00:22:41,255 --> 00:22:45,094 Speaker 1: just want to be taken care of. Yeah. So I 481 00:22:45,104 --> 00:22:47,584 Speaker 1: feel like if this is unfair to the men because 482 00:22:47,594 --> 00:22:48,395 Speaker 1: they have also 483 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:51,109 Speaker 1: had a hard day at work, right? Everyone deserves to 484 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,719 Speaker 1: be taken care of to be treated like a baby sometimes. Absolutely. 485 00:22:55,729 --> 00:22:57,500 Speaker 1: It's a two way street. It's a human thing at 486 00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: the end of the day, right? I think femininity has 487 00:22:59,930 --> 00:23:02,310 Speaker 1: evolved so much, right? It used to be like, oh, 488 00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:05,239 Speaker 1: if you're submissive or passive, that's feminine. Now it's like 489 00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:09,060 Speaker 1: confidence is femininity. So how do you guys express your 490 00:23:09,069 --> 00:23:13,438 Speaker 1: feminine sights? How about we address this question for each other? OK. 491 00:23:13,449 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: I feel like for Zora, well, I've struggled but carry on. 492 00:23:17,719 --> 00:23:20,939 Speaker 1: I think the struggle is past you. I think for you, 493 00:23:21,069 --> 00:23:24,750 Speaker 1: you display your confidence with your dressing your fashion. I 494 00:23:24,869 --> 00:23:30,380 Speaker 1: was right. Her style your hair like you break conventional norms, 495 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: break by the way, every day 496 00:23:33,540 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 1: she break the norms and hair also. That's what you are. Ok. 497 00:23:37,530 --> 00:23:42,300 Speaker 1: Now for Jimmy, not very feminine is you are very 498 00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:46,479 Speaker 1: confidence in yourself. Like she is just confidence in one 499 00:23:46,489 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: package but we are all confident. You guys are confident too. 500 00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:52,709 Speaker 1: It shines through. No, I think something that I really 501 00:23:52,719 --> 00:23:56,209 Speaker 1: admire about you is that you can let go and 502 00:23:56,219 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: you can allow someone to take 503 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,379 Speaker 1: the front seat, the driver seat. It's very hard for 504 00:24:01,390 --> 00:24:03,729 Speaker 1: some people. I struggled that for a long time. So 505 00:24:03,739 --> 00:24:06,300 Speaker 1: I would see it right. And I was like, actually 506 00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:09,219 Speaker 1: why cannot, I mean, I think it takes the right 507 00:24:09,229 --> 00:24:12,889 Speaker 1: situation and or the right person to bring that out of, 508 00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm so sorry. Yeah. OK. Hazy. OK. Come 509 00:24:17,290 --> 00:24:22,010 Speaker 1: but he is the epitome of femininity, you know. Really? Yeah. 510 00:24:22,229 --> 00:24:24,698 Speaker 1: As in your masculine when it comes to like 511 00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:26,910 Speaker 1: when you take care of yourself. You're very masculine in 512 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,550 Speaker 1: a sense. Right? You're like, no means, no, health means health. 513 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,130 Speaker 1: Fitness means fitness. But in every way else you're just 514 00:24:33,140 --> 00:24:34,949 Speaker 1: so feminine like you are soft. You know, the way 515 00:24:34,959 --> 00:24:37,170 Speaker 1: that you move, the way that you talk, the way 516 00:24:37,180 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: that you walk is so feminine. She's gentle. She takes 517 00:24:41,369 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: care of people. She's like baby girl. Exactly. We are 518 00:24:45,810 --> 00:24:50,629 Speaker 1: not gentle. We are not my goodness, gentle. She really 519 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:50,709 Speaker 1: is 520 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,949 Speaker 1: guys. I got new bruises every day. No, sorry, that's 521 00:24:54,959 --> 00:24:57,699 Speaker 1: a side track, right? But just for shits and giggles 522 00:24:57,709 --> 00:25:01,619 Speaker 1: because Hazy mentioned about clothes, right? So actually just yesterday 523 00:25:01,630 --> 00:25:03,849 Speaker 1: I saw a meme, I found it very funny. So 524 00:25:03,859 --> 00:25:06,859 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, so I sent it to my friend. 525 00:25:06,910 --> 00:25:09,949 Speaker 1: Basically it says who the fuck raised me to believe 526 00:25:09,959 --> 00:25:12,619 Speaker 1: that I need a new outfit for every event. Ok? 527 00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:15,329 Speaker 1: My friend replied and said you have outfits for events 528 00:25:15,339 --> 00:25:16,729 Speaker 1: that you're not even going for. 529 00:25:18,339 --> 00:25:21,410 Speaker 1: That's true. That's very true. Actually, she has shoes that 530 00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:25,089 Speaker 1: she's never even worn. You don't, I actually don't. I do. Ok? 531 00:25:25,979 --> 00:25:29,089 Speaker 1: I better shut up. Yeah, I mean, redefining femininity is 532 00:25:29,099 --> 00:25:31,030 Speaker 1: on your own terms. It's not like a playbook you 533 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,410 Speaker 1: have to follow. It's not like I have to be 534 00:25:32,420 --> 00:25:34,650 Speaker 1: this or that you can be feminine in any own way, 535 00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:36,589 Speaker 1: even as a guy, right? You can let your feminine 536 00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:38,939 Speaker 1: side show a softer side show where you need a 537 00:25:38,949 --> 00:25:41,420 Speaker 1: bit of taken care of like where you are a 538 00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:44,139 Speaker 1: bit more emotional. It's ok, girl, appreciate it. Ok. Go 539 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,930 Speaker 1: actually appreciate that like, oh you also want me to 540 00:25:46,939 --> 00:25:48,810 Speaker 1: say on you. It's cute. 541 00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: Just want to communicate. My guys are so different in 542 00:25:52,810 --> 00:25:54,899 Speaker 1: front of their friends and in front of you, they're 543 00:25:54,910 --> 00:25:57,968 Speaker 1: so different, so adorable. It's like two different people. You 544 00:25:57,979 --> 00:26:02,140 Speaker 1: are right. We asked to come out. It's true like 545 00:26:02,150 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: in front of their friends, they're like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Strong, 546 00:26:04,930 --> 00:26:07,430 Speaker 1: strong then with you, they're like, I'm a baby. Yeah. 547 00:26:07,439 --> 00:26:10,649 Speaker 1: And then like the way they speak suddenly the pictures 548 00:26:10,660 --> 00:26:11,438 Speaker 1: get higher. It's, 549 00:26:14,910 --> 00:26:18,619 Speaker 1: and I think everybody can agree. Guys are the biggest 550 00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:22,099 Speaker 1: babies when they're sick. No, they are, they are, they 551 00:26:22,109 --> 00:26:25,979 Speaker 1: need the most TLC and love and care like that. 552 00:26:25,989 --> 00:26:28,459 Speaker 1: So they've had a bad day. We like that. I'm 553 00:26:28,469 --> 00:26:31,020 Speaker 1: just saying we like that just as much as guys 554 00:26:31,030 --> 00:26:34,589 Speaker 1: appreciate the masculine side of girls. Girls can also appreciate 555 00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:37,369 Speaker 1: the feminine side of guys. Exactly. So it's ok to 556 00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:39,569 Speaker 1: be soft at times and cute. 557 00:26:40,670 --> 00:26:46,500 Speaker 1: Like I can show you a teddy bear heart. So nice. Correct. 558 00:26:46,930 --> 00:26:52,380 Speaker 1: I will be the big spoon. So question right in 559 00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: a guy that they do or a quality in them 560 00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:57,900 Speaker 1: or whatever it is that gets you see me in 561 00:26:57,910 --> 00:27:00,339 Speaker 1: a bad way. No, no, no, no. In a good way. 562 00:27:00,349 --> 00:27:04,939 Speaker 1: Like something that just gets you get in the link 563 00:27:06,729 --> 00:27:09,649 Speaker 1: for me. It's easy. The first thing I look out 564 00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:12,589 Speaker 1: for in a guy is how discipline or driven is. 565 00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:15,219 Speaker 1: I've always been saying this but this why she's wholesome, 566 00:27:15,229 --> 00:27:18,079 Speaker 1: you understand? But this quality in the guy has never changed. 567 00:27:18,089 --> 00:27:19,869 Speaker 1: For me. It is a must have in all the 568 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,050 Speaker 1: guys that date. But what if, because he has that quality, 569 00:27:23,060 --> 00:27:26,089 Speaker 1: he prioritizes work over you. She was, but she will 570 00:27:26,099 --> 00:27:28,290 Speaker 1: probably prioritize work over a don't like that. 571 00:27:28,449 --> 00:27:31,729 Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. She balances very well. Actually, 572 00:27:31,739 --> 00:27:34,540 Speaker 1: I actually like to achieve a balance between love and work. 573 00:27:34,550 --> 00:27:37,478 Speaker 1: It's all about learning about each other and compromising you 574 00:27:37,489 --> 00:27:40,010 Speaker 1: can't expect at the start. Everything is perfect but you 575 00:27:40,020 --> 00:27:41,849 Speaker 1: slowly start to work towards, yeah, I used to have 576 00:27:41,859 --> 00:27:45,270 Speaker 1: a relationship. This guy, he's very driven, very disciplined, but 577 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,020 Speaker 1: he just placed more emphasis on work and less emphasis 578 00:27:48,030 --> 00:27:49,889 Speaker 1: on me. And eventually we just didn't work out 579 00:27:50,170 --> 00:27:52,170 Speaker 1: because no time, no attention span. How do you make 580 00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:55,229 Speaker 1: a relationship work? Right. So that's for me, discipline driven 581 00:27:55,239 --> 00:27:59,329 Speaker 1: for me. It's being a gentleman. Most of the guys 582 00:27:59,339 --> 00:28:02,510 Speaker 1: I dated have been, that's why I look out for 583 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,989 Speaker 1: opening of a door. Yes, she fell in love in 584 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,349 Speaker 1: school when the guy held the door open. I did. Ok? 585 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: He held the door open and I was like, what 586 00:28:10,290 --> 00:28:11,649 Speaker 1: a gentleman I love you 587 00:28:12,199 --> 00:28:14,979 Speaker 1: holding the door open or even just holding my bags, 588 00:28:14,989 --> 00:28:17,479 Speaker 1: offering to help me offering to pick up something from, 589 00:28:17,489 --> 00:28:20,409 Speaker 1: it was just taking, you know, just being a man 590 00:28:20,420 --> 00:28:23,390 Speaker 1: picking up shopping bags is so cute. Like some men, 591 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: I find that, hey, you don't treat me as a slave. No, 592 00:28:25,449 --> 00:28:28,349 Speaker 1: I really have a male friend think that like, he 593 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,750 Speaker 1: does not like to hold bags for his girlfriend because 594 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,790 Speaker 1: he feels like he's being treated like a slave that 595 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:34,750 Speaker 1: too baffles me to this. 596 00:28:35,291 --> 00:28:37,281 Speaker 1: But I wouldn't ask though, I wouldn't say like, can 597 00:28:37,291 --> 00:28:40,991 Speaker 1: you hold this for me? I wouldn't really be like, 598 00:28:41,001 --> 00:28:43,501 Speaker 1: can you help me? Yeah, but usually you know, they 599 00:28:43,511 --> 00:28:45,562 Speaker 1: offer like, can I hold that for you? Then I'll 600 00:28:45,572 --> 00:28:48,491 Speaker 1: be like, no, it's ok and then he would just 601 00:28:48,501 --> 00:28:53,202 Speaker 1: grab it from me. That is sexy. Yeah. Yeah. What 602 00:28:53,212 --> 00:28:56,302 Speaker 1: about you? What traits in gets you weak in the knees? 603 00:28:56,391 --> 00:28:57,541 Speaker 1: I can hard 604 00:28:58,614 --> 00:29:03,573 Speaker 1: attention to detail like small things. This is very minute 605 00:29:03,583 --> 00:29:06,583 Speaker 1: things right that I feel like people always overlook that 606 00:29:06,593 --> 00:29:10,014 Speaker 1: shows like thoughtfulness that gets me like let's say I 607 00:29:10,024 --> 00:29:11,683 Speaker 1: show you something on my phone and then you just 608 00:29:11,693 --> 00:29:14,894 Speaker 1: see like my battery loading, you just charge it. That's 609 00:29:14,994 --> 00:29:18,413 Speaker 1: like that or like let's say I'm doing my makeup 610 00:29:18,423 --> 00:29:20,323 Speaker 1: of the car. It's a traffic light. I mean, 611 00:29:20,426 --> 00:29:23,355 Speaker 1: we're all professionals and doing makeup and then you move 612 00:29:23,365 --> 00:29:24,906 Speaker 1: off and you're like, oh sorry, I forgot to tell 613 00:29:24,916 --> 00:29:28,615 Speaker 1: you that we're moving off. I'm actually fine, but thank 614 00:29:28,625 --> 00:29:31,975 Speaker 1: you for the thought. The fact that. You said that? Yes, 615 00:29:32,355 --> 00:29:36,586 Speaker 1: because people overlook these things all the time. So, who's car? 616 00:29:36,645 --> 00:29:39,666 Speaker 1: Are you doing makeup in? Did you ever say that, Jimmy? No, 617 00:29:39,676 --> 00:29:41,836 Speaker 1: I never ever said that if I drive off your 618 00:29:41,845 --> 00:29:42,875 Speaker 1: eyeliner will be here. 619 00:29:44,069 --> 00:29:45,849 Speaker 1: Sorry, I don't do eyeliner and browse in the car. 620 00:29:47,489 --> 00:29:49,180 Speaker 1: You know what? I think we went off of it, 621 00:29:49,329 --> 00:29:51,650 Speaker 1: but this is a fun conversation. I think it was cute. 622 00:29:51,660 --> 00:29:54,630 Speaker 1: Hopefully any guys listening to this show a bit more 623 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,910 Speaker 1: of your feminine side, your cute side and to girls 624 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,469 Speaker 1: it's OK to make the first move. Don't be afraid. 625 00:30:00,479 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes it gets you where you want to be. Wow, 626 00:30:04,069 --> 00:30:07,140 Speaker 1: you miss 100% of the shots that you don't take, 627 00:30:07,530 --> 00:30:11,060 Speaker 1: that you want something, you go for it because if 628 00:30:11,069 --> 00:30:13,119 Speaker 1: you don't try, the answer will always be 629 00:30:13,219 --> 00:30:18,910 Speaker 1: no motivation. Also recently a male friend told me he 630 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,859 Speaker 1: has this theory. We found it extremely insane. Somebody out 631 00:30:22,869 --> 00:30:25,199 Speaker 1: there please go and try. Ok. Basically he says, right, 632 00:30:25,209 --> 00:30:28,380 Speaker 1: let's say you are a restaurant, you are above your friends, 633 00:30:28,390 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: whatever it is, wherever you are, cafe, whatever you see 634 00:30:30,810 --> 00:30:32,989 Speaker 1: a guy across the room that you like. He says 635 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,890 Speaker 1: it works 100% of the time. Ok? OK. My friends 636 00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:39,420 Speaker 1: say what doesn't work. Don't look for me. Understand. So 637 00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:42,550 Speaker 1: he says you make eye contact with this 638 00:30:43,329 --> 00:30:47,849 Speaker 1: and so I had somebody hair tie. So here you go. 639 00:30:48,140 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: I have a tiny one does this work? Can I 640 00:30:50,530 --> 00:30:54,229 Speaker 1: try my best? Ok. He says that this will work 100% 641 00:30:54,239 --> 00:30:57,219 Speaker 1: of the time you're across the room. Ok. Ok. Ok. 642 00:30:57,229 --> 00:30:59,459 Speaker 1: The guy is there. Yes, you've been looking at each other, 643 00:30:59,469 --> 00:31:02,140 Speaker 1: you know, he's interested, you are interested. You want him 644 00:31:02,150 --> 00:31:04,859 Speaker 1: to come over? He says that this will make him 645 00:31:04,869 --> 00:31:07,969 Speaker 1: come over. You look straight, you cannot break eye contact. 646 00:31:07,979 --> 00:31:10,770 Speaker 1: That's the trick. Ok? And first of all, you must 647 00:31:10,780 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: bite your own 648 00:31:13,099 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: and you cannot react on that 649 00:31:16,189 --> 00:31:16,869 Speaker 1: or die of her. 650 00:31:17,969 --> 00:31:21,140 Speaker 1: That's hard. And apparently at some point, I don't know 651 00:31:21,150 --> 00:31:23,619 Speaker 1: how long he will come over. But if you never come, 652 00:31:23,630 --> 00:31:26,530 Speaker 1: I keep dying, you take out and then you try again, 653 00:31:26,540 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: you take it out and you tie it again. I 654 00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:31,989 Speaker 1: don't know, I never try. We put this to the test. 655 00:31:32,010 --> 00:31:35,050 Speaker 1: Can somebody try please and let us know what do 656 00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:40,420 Speaker 1: you guys try it? Say success? 100% like oh my God. OK. 657 00:31:40,430 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: Try it. And if it works, OK, drop us ad 658 00:31:42,569 --> 00:31:44,859 Speaker 1: M on Instagram. OK? 659 00:31:45,224 --> 00:31:48,224 Speaker 1: Yeah, our handle is at a cavity.co, correct? And you 660 00:31:48,234 --> 00:31:50,854 Speaker 1: can listen to us on me. Listen Apple Podcast, Spotify. 661 00:31:50,864 --> 00:31:54,135 Speaker 1: Don't forget to turn on the notifications. And if you 662 00:31:54,145 --> 00:31:56,395 Speaker 1: want to watch a zero tie her hair, make sure 663 00:31:56,405 --> 00:31:59,364 Speaker 1: you watch us on youtube. Honestly, that made me feel something. 664 00:31:59,464 --> 00:32:01,244 Speaker 1: It was not sexy enough. Should I do it again? 665 00:32:01,255 --> 00:32:04,415 Speaker 1: It was quite sex. I have to say it was 666 00:32:05,469 --> 00:32:05,489 Speaker 1: hi.