WEBVTT - 5 things you need to know about the fall of FTX

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not you're into cryptocurrencies, you've likely heard about

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<v Speaker 1>the failure of F. T. X this past month, the

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<v Speaker 1>abrupt downfall of what was once one of the world's

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<v Speaker 1>largest crypto exchanges has shaken the industry calling into question

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<v Speaker 1>financial practices at such exchanges that are used to transact

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<v Speaker 1>cryptocurrencies by both institutional and retail investors around the world.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Sona Ramesh from the money

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<v Speaker 1>team today, we're looking at the top five things you

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<v Speaker 1>need to know about the four of F. T. X.

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<v Speaker 1>My guest today, Eugene and co founder of Blockchain based

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<v Speaker 1>company open Eden, Antonio Fattah's economist at and later we'll

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<v Speaker 1>be hearing from Jim Rogers investor and author Eugene, let's

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<v Speaker 1>start with how significant is F. T. X has collapsed

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<v Speaker 1>to you

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<v Speaker 2>on a scale of 1 to 10 I think nine

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<v Speaker 2>to put things in perspective. Lehman Brothers had 600 plus

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<v Speaker 2>billion dollars when it filed for bankruptcy. Annual Madoff defrauded

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<v Speaker 2>60 plus billion dollars. F. T. X. $10 billion from

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<v Speaker 2>more than five million creditors at the sky high values

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<v Speaker 2>of $22 billion which is white overnight. So I think

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<v Speaker 2>this is probably the top 10 corporate scandals of all time,

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<v Speaker 2>making one of the biggest, if not the biggest crypto

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<v Speaker 2>scandals today. But what's more grave is that most people

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<v Speaker 2>perceived as a trusted venue because of his mainstream advertising,

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<v Speaker 2>big time celebrity endorsement and blue chip venture capital backers.

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<v Speaker 2>SPF SAM, the ceo of FTS ventures and benefit owner

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<v Speaker 2>of elemental is fun, constantly portrayed himself as a Fillon trophies.

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<v Speaker 2>Being the second largest democrat donor who allegedly have a

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<v Speaker 2>cozy relationship with the sec chairman

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<v Speaker 1>Antonio. What are your thoughts?

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<v Speaker 2>Very significant. It's not the first time that we see

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<v Speaker 2>similar things in the crypto world, but I think the

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<v Speaker 2>size of F. T. X. The fact that it was

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<v Speaker 2>at some point sort of a leader in this market

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<v Speaker 2>has created a lot more of a shock than any

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<v Speaker 2>of the previous things. So I think it's a combination

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<v Speaker 2>of size, but I think it's also because they had

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<v Speaker 2>played a role in developing this market and there was

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of trust by many that they were doing

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<v Speaker 2>something that was right such as a surprise has been

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<v Speaker 2>a wake up call for some people.

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<v Speaker 1>Big names like Temasek and Sequoia Capital have announced that

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<v Speaker 1>they're writing down millions of dollars invested in FT. X.

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<v Speaker 1>Surely questions are going to be asked about why VCS

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<v Speaker 1>and investors didn't notice anything fishy in its books,

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<v Speaker 2>Institutions and venture capital have ported $1.8 billion dollars into F. T. X.

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<v Speaker 2>Many of these stakeholders, shareholders and investors are likely going

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<v Speaker 2>to ask questions around the due diligence processes such as

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<v Speaker 2>the lack of

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<v Speaker 2>independent board of directors which currently consists of some FCS

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<v Speaker 2>employee and a lawyer. That's an amazing question. A great

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<v Speaker 2>question and I think the answer is that we're not

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<v Speaker 2>doing the due diligence. Obviously somebody was trusting this individual

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<v Speaker 2>too much. So it's just trusting a little bit of

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<v Speaker 2>personality of the entrepreneur as opposed to doing due diligence

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<v Speaker 2>or what is behind the business. That's a big failure.

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<v Speaker 2>Certainly of the investors that pour a lot of money

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<v Speaker 2>into this business,

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<v Speaker 2>but you need to make the effort of asking for

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<v Speaker 2>the details. You cannot just stop and getting mesmerized about

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<v Speaker 2>the charisma of the entrepreneur. I think you have to

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<v Speaker 2>ask for the numbers and I think there's been a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of signals in the crypto world that a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of those business, we're not doing what they said they

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<v Speaker 2>were doing.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we have other crypto exchanges rushing to assure customers

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<v Speaker 1>that they are financially sound. But already there have been

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<v Speaker 1>some victims. Do you see this as the start of

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<v Speaker 1>a larger crypto winter

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<v Speaker 2>for sure you're seeing some other exch

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<v Speaker 2>changes, stopping withdrawals over the last days. I expect that

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<v Speaker 2>to happen even more in other exchanges over the coming days.

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<v Speaker 2>Some exchanges, I hope. I mean I don't have all

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<v Speaker 2>the data myself because I'm not an investor. I hope

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<v Speaker 2>that some of the other exchanges have better balance sheets

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<v Speaker 2>and they're not doing the type of fraud that F. T. X.

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<v Speaker 2>Was doing. So I assume some of them are going

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<v Speaker 2>to survive. But I have no doubt that others were

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<v Speaker 2>doing investments and fraudulent activities that resemble what F. T. X.

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<v Speaker 2>Was doing.

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<v Speaker 2>Given that both elementary gets invested in 250 crypto companies.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there'll be a butterfly effect. And what implications?

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<v Speaker 2>Number one is F. T. X. Have dressed up as

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<v Speaker 2>a white knight to rescue companies like block fire and Voyager.

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<v Speaker 2>Number two is FTS. And elements have been very much

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<v Speaker 2>invested in big ecosystems like Salon a Syrian, both FX

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<v Speaker 2>and elemental have sizable exposure to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, these projects through their token holdings and I

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<v Speaker 2>think this is going to leave a lot of questions

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<v Speaker 2>and potential liabilities to these projects where it could potentially

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<v Speaker 2>impact the future growth, potentially resulting from chapter 11 filings

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<v Speaker 2>and creditors from FT. X.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's bring in veteran investor jim Rogers. Jim you're well

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<v Speaker 1>known for being a crypto skeptic. Do you see this

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<v Speaker 1>as the start of the beginning of the end?

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<v Speaker 1>Not today, it's the end, but it is the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of the end because several of them have already collapsed

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<v Speaker 1>and disappeared and gone to zero. There's still many, many

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<v Speaker 1>around Bitcoin is still around etcetera. But I suspect that

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<v Speaker 1>there will be fewer and fewer people who will be

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<v Speaker 1>converted to crypto money. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>as long as they're trading vehicles, nobody really cares that

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<v Speaker 1>much except the people who lose money or make money

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<v Speaker 1>and some people have made money. But no, I suspect

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to see fewer and fewer people getting involved

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<v Speaker 1>because there's enough publicity now. A lot of people who

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<v Speaker 1>have lost everything and that usually scares people

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<v Speaker 1>Whenever there's some new hot idea, everybody gets excited in

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<v Speaker 1>the ball market and computers in the late 60s it

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<v Speaker 1>was a laundry in New York which changed its name

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<v Speaker 1>to computer and stock was straight up,

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<v Speaker 1>it was still a laundry but the name said computer

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<v Speaker 1>and so everybody got crazy. I mean people markets have

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<v Speaker 1>long histories of people been foolish things, getting excited about

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<v Speaker 1>the wrong things and going through the roof and eventually

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<v Speaker 1>losing a lot of money. This kind of thing has

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<v Speaker 1>been around for hundreds of years. It will probably be

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<v Speaker 1>around for a few 100 more years. You know if

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<v Speaker 1>you bought a lot of wheat and it collapsed

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<v Speaker 1>at least have some wheat, you can make bread or

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<v Speaker 1>cellar or something. But if you've got these things,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you have, I mean what do you have,

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<v Speaker 1>you have something on your computer that says this? But

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<v Speaker 1>what are you gonna do with it? Not much.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's take stock of what we've been speaking about. F. T.

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<v Speaker 1>X's failure could go down as one of the world's

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<v Speaker 1>biggest corporate scandals. The crypto exchange was viewed as one

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<v Speaker 1>that was trusted compliant and the market leader. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>sudden downfall has shaken the industry to its core

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<v Speaker 1>questions will be asked about why F. D. X. S.

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<v Speaker 1>Major backers, blue chip venture capitalists and sovereign wealth funds

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<v Speaker 1>were not able to notice suspicious activities at the exchange

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<v Speaker 1>and this could just be the start of a colder

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<v Speaker 1>crypto winter with more exchange is expected to fall in

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<v Speaker 1>the coming weeks and months, Does this mean that nowhere

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<v Speaker 1>is safe in cryptocurrencies and what must crypto exchanges do

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<v Speaker 1>to restore trust in the system,

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<v Speaker 1>nowhere is a lot of places probably be something. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean some people are just providing the markets are okay,

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<v Speaker 1>at least as long as there is a market. But

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<v Speaker 1>usually when things like this start disintegrating, there are fewer

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<v Speaker 1>and fewer safe havens because everybody is skeptical and even

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<v Speaker 1>if you're doing the right thing or even if you're

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<v Speaker 1>not doing the wrong thing, if your customers are doing

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<v Speaker 1>the wrong thing,

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<v Speaker 1>you get killed. You know, F. T. X. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure there are many people who didn't do anything wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>but now suddenly since they were involved with F. T. X.

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<v Speaker 1>They're getting ruined. I mean there are people who invested

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<v Speaker 1>in FT. X. The only thing wrong they did was

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't do their homework, enough homework, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't do anything fraudulent,

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<v Speaker 1>but since they're investing vehicle did something wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>they're suffering very badly. So even if you're smart and

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<v Speaker 1>don't do the wrong things, you can get hurt by

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<v Speaker 1>other people.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the good things that happened from the FTS

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<v Speaker 2>fiasco is that many exchanges are now scrambling to display

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<v Speaker 2>their proof of reserve renewing their commitment to transparency. Many

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<v Speaker 2>enterprising users on twitter have uncovered suspicious shuffling and shifting

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<v Speaker 2>of funds on and before the snapshot of the reserves

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<v Speaker 2>while proof of reserve is a good stepping stone to

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<v Speaker 2>embracing food transparency. But he only paints a sing

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<v Speaker 2>this side of the story. For example, if I show

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<v Speaker 2>and tell my investors that I have a billion dollars

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<v Speaker 2>of assets, I could, oh $2 billion of liabilities to

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<v Speaker 2>my depositors. So that's really meaningless. I think for the

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<v Speaker 2>industry to move forward, put the liabilities have to go

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<v Speaker 2>alongside with reserve that showcase cold wallets, aggregated balances, asset breakdown.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a tested and audited by third party that way

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<v Speaker 2>you are able to win trust from the investors

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<v Speaker 2>is such a high risk because you give your savings,

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<v Speaker 2>your investments to someone who's not regulated in most cases

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<v Speaker 2>they're not regulated in any way. So you have to

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<v Speaker 2>trust that they're keeping your funds safe. But again, trusts

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<v Speaker 2>on what

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<v Speaker 2>the financial sector is heavily regulated for the reason because

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<v Speaker 2>we do not want investors, we do not want individuals

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<v Speaker 2>to lose their savings when the business behind the financial

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<v Speaker 2>institution is not the right one. If I was an

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<v Speaker 2>investor in this world, I would be now asking myself,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the risk must be very, very high, do

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<v Speaker 2>I really want to do this?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we've seen this happen before. But again, a renewed

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<v Speaker 1>call for regulation of the industry, do you see this

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<v Speaker 1>coming and if so what kind of regulation do you

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<v Speaker 1>think would work? No, of course, of course, every politician

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<v Speaker 1>in the world now sees an opportunity to make a

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<v Speaker 1>name for himself or herself.

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<v Speaker 1>And they'll all say, oh, we need to do something,

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<v Speaker 1>let's do something many of them will jump on and say, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to protect you, we're going to pass rules,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to pass regulations, we're going to try to

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<v Speaker 1>protect you. This is the sort of thing that politicians

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<v Speaker 1>love and bureaucrats love.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, the calls were already there. What happens with

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<v Speaker 2>these exchanges is that many of them are offshore, so

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<v Speaker 2>you can regulate the ones that come to your country,

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<v Speaker 2>but the ones that are sitting offshore, they cannot do

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<v Speaker 2>much about it. So, for a Singapore investor, the monetary

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<v Speaker 2>authority of Singapore, discourage people to buy into this crypto world,

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<v Speaker 2>but there's a lot of exchanges out there and it's

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<v Speaker 2>very hard for any Central bank regulator to stop that

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<v Speaker 2>flow of money that goes offshore. So, I think we're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna have to be

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<v Speaker 2>smart, are doing two things, trying to create possibly some

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<v Speaker 2>regulated institutions within our countries that people can trust. But

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<v Speaker 2>then also discourage people from going offshore, because we will

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<v Speaker 2>never be able to regulate activities that are happening in

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<v Speaker 2>other jurisdictions.

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<v Speaker 2>There's been a lot of recent progress, because, as the

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<v Speaker 2>market has grown, regulators finally have woken up and said,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to do something about it. If I look back,

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<v Speaker 2>I have been very critical of regulators, because I think

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<v Speaker 2>they haven't done enough. I think they're somehow assumed that

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<v Speaker 2>this was an activity that was going to create a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of innovation and they did not want to constrain

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<v Speaker 2>it too much with the traditional regulation of the other institutions.

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<v Speaker 2>I personally always felt that was not right. I think

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<v Speaker 2>this activity looks like the other institutions, people who put

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<v Speaker 2>their money in crypto is the same people that put

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<v Speaker 2>their money in a bank or they buy government bond.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think those things should be as regulated as

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<v Speaker 2>the traditional activities now that the market has

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<v Speaker 2>grown now that we've seen the big surprises and some

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<v Speaker 2>people losing a significant amount of money. I think you're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna see obviously an increasing regulation which is gonna sort

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<v Speaker 2>of level the playing field. And now you're gonna see

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<v Speaker 2>regulation in this world that resembles the traditional regulation we

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<v Speaker 2>see in regular financial institutions.

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<v Speaker 2>I think thoughtful, meaningful balanced regulations that embraces innovation without

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<v Speaker 2>stifling progress and building of these technologies, but really focusing

0:12:20.870 --> 0:12:25.739
<v Speaker 2>on consumer protection, such as embracing more transparency from exchanges,

0:12:25.750 --> 0:12:32.140
<v Speaker 2>segregation of client assets, chinese walls amongst exchange operations. K

0:12:32.140 --> 0:12:34.059
<v Speaker 2>Y C A M L. I think we're in

0:12:34.186 --> 0:12:37.016
<v Speaker 2>progress. I think the regulars are really laying out the

0:12:37.016 --> 0:12:40.756
<v Speaker 2>framework for many of these transparency and reporting, but I

0:12:40.756 --> 0:12:43.326
<v Speaker 2>think we're still a long way, there are still many

0:12:43.336 --> 0:12:46.746
<v Speaker 2>countries where there are still many jurisdictions where regulators may

0:12:46.746 --> 0:12:49.616
<v Speaker 2>not be very clear with the way forward for some

0:12:49.616 --> 0:12:51.445
<v Speaker 2>of these crypto companies.

0:12:51.456 --> 0:12:53.736
<v Speaker 1>I wonder how much you think this has set back

0:12:53.746 --> 0:12:57.086
<v Speaker 1>Kryptos attempts to become a legitimate asset class?

0:12:57.096 --> 0:12:58.545
<v Speaker 2>I think it's a big setback.

0:12:58.562 --> 0:13:01.622
<v Speaker 2>You've already seen that in the last year when sort

0:13:01.622 --> 0:13:04.151
<v Speaker 2>of the price of Bitcoin has been coming down and

0:13:04.152 --> 0:13:06.692
<v Speaker 2>it has not recovered as much as those who like

0:13:06.702 --> 0:13:10.531
<v Speaker 2>Bitcoin were expecting. I think this is an additional setback

0:13:10.542 --> 0:13:13.472
<v Speaker 2>for a typical investor. It says do not touch this.

0:13:13.482 --> 0:13:16.012
<v Speaker 2>I think that's the message that people are getting. This

0:13:16.011 --> 0:13:18.401
<v Speaker 2>is a message which is very different from what we've

0:13:18.402 --> 0:13:21.932
<v Speaker 2>seen two years ago when sort of everyone was buying

0:13:21.932 --> 0:13:22.940
<v Speaker 2>into the hype,

0:13:23.190 --> 0:13:25.679
<v Speaker 2>they were sort of assuming that at some point these

0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.760
<v Speaker 2>things will deliver a decent or very good return. I

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.660
<v Speaker 2>don't think people look at this market anymore like that.

0:13:31.670 --> 0:13:34.090
<v Speaker 2>So if you have a random person of the street,

0:13:34.100 --> 0:13:36.270
<v Speaker 2>I don't think they're thinking or let me buy Bitcoin

0:13:36.270 --> 0:13:38.330
<v Speaker 2>now because it's going to go up and let me

0:13:38.330 --> 0:13:41.840
<v Speaker 2>trust an exchange. A lot of the people that put

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.570
<v Speaker 2>money into this world are trying to get out and

0:13:44.570 --> 0:13:46.550
<v Speaker 2>you don't have a new flow of people that are

0:13:46.550 --> 0:13:49.050
<v Speaker 2>gonna be the next investors in this market.

0:13:49.230 --> 0:13:52.030
<v Speaker 2>You're always gonna have the big fan boys that are

0:13:52.030 --> 0:13:56.580
<v Speaker 2>still buying obviously these cryptocurrencies, those will still be around,

0:13:56.590 --> 0:13:59.150
<v Speaker 2>but that market is gonna be so much smaller than

0:13:59.150 --> 0:14:00.439
<v Speaker 2>it was in the previous years.

0:14:00.950 --> 0:14:03.410
<v Speaker 1>Eugene, you've worked for crypto exchanges and now you work

0:14:03.410 --> 0:14:07.460
<v Speaker 1>with three technologies. Are you less pessimistic about the outlook?

0:14:07.470 --> 0:14:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I've never been more optimistic about the future of Blockchain

0:14:10.410 --> 0:14:16.620
<v Speaker 2>technologies that embraces trust lys on chain transparency and decentralization.

0:14:16.630 --> 0:14:21.970
<v Speaker 2>The embodies. What we believe as early crypto adopter, what

0:14:21.980 --> 0:14:25.610
<v Speaker 2>will transpire in the coming months would be best practices,

0:14:25.620 --> 0:14:30.920
<v Speaker 2>more regulations and more show less tell ie transparency

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:35.340
<v Speaker 2>despite headlines and what some would like to paint this

0:14:35.340 --> 0:14:37.610
<v Speaker 2>as a wild West. We have never been more convinced

0:14:37.610 --> 0:14:42.070
<v Speaker 2>that the underlying technology embraces technologies that reduces these black

0:14:42.070 --> 0:14:45.030
<v Speaker 2>actors that allows to trust one another through smart contracts

0:14:45.030 --> 0:14:45.790
<v Speaker 2>and quotes.

0:14:45.830 --> 0:14:48.270
<v Speaker 1>And what's your advice for investors who still want to

0:14:48.270 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 1>get into the Cryptocurrency space?

0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:52.190
<v Speaker 2>I think it may not be a great idea. Just

0:14:52.190 --> 0:14:55.170
<v Speaker 2>focus on red flags like the recently employed F. T. X.

0:14:55.170 --> 0:14:57.380
<v Speaker 2>It was good and it's not I think that to

0:14:57.390 --> 0:15:01.380
<v Speaker 2>risk mitigation steps, any investor should take number one, D. Y. O. R.

0:15:01.390 --> 0:15:05.450
<v Speaker 2>Do your research and number two. It's learn self custody,

0:15:05.460 --> 0:15:08.350
<v Speaker 2>but it means is ownership of your own digital assets.

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.140
<v Speaker 2>Remember saying not your keys, not your coins.

0:15:11.310 --> 0:15:13.739
<v Speaker 2>The first advice, I would not go there. But if

0:15:13.740 --> 0:15:16.050
<v Speaker 2>they really want to go there, what I would say

0:15:16.050 --> 0:15:20.950
<v Speaker 2>is that only invest in exchanges which are clearly regulated

0:15:20.950 --> 0:15:24.000
<v Speaker 2>by your national activities and do a lot of due

0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.820
<v Speaker 2>diligence and spend a lot of time trying to understand.

0:15:26.820 --> 0:15:27.450
<v Speaker 2>Is there any

0:15:27.470 --> 0:15:30.820
<v Speaker 2>anything that looks even rescuing this exchange. So I think

0:15:30.820 --> 0:15:33.210
<v Speaker 2>you have to do that homework because these are not

0:15:33.210 --> 0:15:36.890
<v Speaker 2>regular financial institutions and even those that are regulated in

0:15:36.890 --> 0:15:39.670
<v Speaker 2>some countries, it's sort of a new business. So I

0:15:39.670 --> 0:15:42.280
<v Speaker 2>would put a lot of these trust or mistrust in

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:43.750
<v Speaker 2>many of these institutions.

0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:49.500
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately, many investors doesn't matter whether retail or institutional

0:15:49.770 --> 0:15:53.560
<v Speaker 1>when something new comes along. Many of them get excited

0:15:53.570 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 1>and they think it's wonderful and they listen to the

0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.430
<v Speaker 1>story and the story has a lot of good points

0:15:59.430 --> 0:16:02.700
<v Speaker 1>and when they ask questions, there's some good answers. It's

0:16:02.700 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 1>only when the flaws start falling apart that people find out,

0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.680
<v Speaker 1>oh wait a minute, why didn't we think of that?

0:16:09.690 --> 0:16:13.450
<v Speaker 1>Uh And so yes, many, many more people now will

0:16:13.450 --> 0:16:16.170
<v Speaker 1>see the emperor has no clothes,

0:16:16.350 --> 0:16:19.430
<v Speaker 1>but everybody has to make their own decisions and do

0:16:19.430 --> 0:16:22.130
<v Speaker 1>their own research. If you have done a lot of

0:16:22.130 --> 0:16:25.120
<v Speaker 1>research and you really know what you're doing, maybe you'll

0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:29.420
<v Speaker 1>make money. But I've seen this rodeo before and usually

0:16:29.420 --> 0:16:33.450
<v Speaker 1>in the end nearly everybody loses a lot of money.

0:16:33.940 --> 0:16:37.210
<v Speaker 1>A reality check there as investors take stock after the

0:16:37.210 --> 0:16:40.010
<v Speaker 1>collapse of one of the biggest names in the crypto world.

0:16:40.020 --> 0:16:42.330
<v Speaker 1>The fall of F. DX has hit the wider crypto

0:16:42.330 --> 0:16:45.590
<v Speaker 1>market with the prices of other cryptocurrencies falling and the

0:16:45.590 --> 0:16:48.140
<v Speaker 1>total market cap of the sector dropping to a low

0:16:48.150 --> 0:16:50.290
<v Speaker 1>of under 800 billion U. S. Dollars.

0:16:50.940 --> 0:16:54.260
<v Speaker 1>So it could be the start of a colder crypto winter.

0:16:54.270 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 1>But it's also a wake up call for greater transparency

0:16:57.530 --> 0:17:00.710
<v Speaker 1>in the crypto sphere amid calls for more regulation. It's

0:17:00.710 --> 0:17:03.370
<v Speaker 1>likely that new rules will level the playing field for

0:17:03.370 --> 0:17:07.920
<v Speaker 1>traditional and alternative financial players. Now, all of this is

0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.570
<v Speaker 1>likely to be a setback for the development of crypto

0:17:10.570 --> 0:17:13.580
<v Speaker 1>as an asset class. But there's also optimism in the

0:17:13.580 --> 0:17:16.320
<v Speaker 1>future of the underlying Blockchain technology.

0:17:17.010 --> 0:17:19.120
<v Speaker 1>That's the top five things you need to know about

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.620
<v Speaker 1>the fallout from FT X. My thanks to my guest today,

0:17:22.630 --> 0:17:25.950
<v Speaker 1>Eugene lang went three developer and investor and co founder

0:17:25.950 --> 0:17:31.369
<v Speaker 1>of open Eden antonia fattah's economists at and jim Rogers,

0:17:31.380 --> 0:17:35.500
<v Speaker 1>investor and author money mind as every saturday at 10

0:17:35.500 --> 0:17:38.190
<v Speaker 1>30 PM on media cop cny. You can also find

0:17:38.190 --> 0:17:40.830
<v Speaker 1>us on sienna dot asia and on youtube.