WEBVTT - Why oil spills are especially nasty 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:05.170 You're listening to AC N A podcast. 0:00:06.380 --> 0:00:09.640 It's fair to say Singapore's been shocked and a bit 0:00:09.648 --> 0:00:12.890 saddened by the fallout of the oil spill that happened 0:00:12.898 --> 0:00:17.530 on June 14 weeks on the situation is still unfolding, 0:00:17.969 --> 0:00:21.379 containing thousands of tons of oil in the environment is 0:00:21.389 --> 0:00:25.520 a major challenge and the cleanup will take a long time. 0:00:25.979 --> 0:00:29.520 Even as we wean off fossil fuels, oil is all 0:00:29.530 --> 0:00:33.439 around us. Today. We're looking at how to live with it. 0:00:35.598 --> 0:00:39.680 Hello and welcome to climate conversations. I'm Jack Ford, coming 0:00:39.689 --> 0:00:43.750 to you from Bangkok and Hello Li Ling Tan in Singapore. 0:00:43.950 --> 0:00:46.168 I hope you're good. Yes, I am. Thank you very 0:00:46.180 --> 0:00:49.080 much for asking. I hope you are too. I am. Now, 0:00:49.090 --> 0:00:53.040 this story though has really captured people's attentions and emotions, 0:00:53.049 --> 0:00:55.290 hasn't it? And we will get into the nitty gritty. 0:00:55.299 --> 0:00:55.709 But what sort 0:00:55.792 --> 0:00:59.053 feelings have you experienced? Kind of seeing all these horrible 0:00:59.062 --> 0:01:03.303 images of oil in what is normally a reasonably clean environment? Yeah, 0:01:03.312 --> 0:01:06.333 it's really jarring and very surreal. A lot of the 0:01:06.343 --> 0:01:08.953 attention was along the beaches of Sentosa. A lot of 0:01:08.962 --> 0:01:10.962 the spill was there and I go there a lot, 0:01:10.972 --> 0:01:13.502 usually to the beach clubs at Tanjong Beach. I'm sure 0:01:13.513 --> 0:01:15.892 you've been there too. These are beach clubs where family 0:01:15.986 --> 0:01:18.206 go during the day and party people go at night 0:01:18.215 --> 0:01:20.934 and these are also the beaches where our Children play. 0:01:20.944 --> 0:01:24.606 And for our international listeners, the hotel that hosted the 0:01:24.615 --> 0:01:28.325 Trump Kim Summit is right there to Capella Sentosa, right 0:01:28.334 --> 0:01:31.865 by Palawan Beach. So to see these pictures of the 0:01:31.875 --> 0:01:34.685 oil slick on the water of this getaway destination and 0:01:34.694 --> 0:01:36.075 the blackened sand, 0:01:36.290 --> 0:01:38.970 it's hard to believe, Jack. It's difficult to imagine that 0:01:38.980 --> 0:01:41.518 something like this could happen. So, are you the family 0:01:41.529 --> 0:01:44.220 person going during the day or the party person going 0:01:44.230 --> 0:01:49.260 at night? I will neither deny nor confirm anything. Both actually. Well, 0:01:49.269 --> 0:01:50.819 it depends on what point of my life. 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:53.720 Gotcha. Gotcha. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:00.389 Let's get into our weekly quiz. Everybody's favorite time of 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.940 the episode. We will be talking about alternative marine fuels 0:02:03.949 --> 0:02:07.239 a little bit later. But developing a cleaner global shipping 0:02:07.250 --> 0:02:10.300 fleet is a big challenge. So I would like to 0:02:10.309 --> 0:02:14.100 know how significant do you think the pollution is from 0:02:14.110 --> 0:02:17.820 one typical large shipping container vessel? One of those big 0:02:17.830 --> 0:02:19.479 ships that you probably see every day. 0:02:19.985 --> 0:02:22.764 If you live in a condominium, you're looking into the sea, 0:02:22.774 --> 0:02:26.035 the Malacca Strait, you'll see these vessels everywhere. One of them, 0:02:26.044 --> 0:02:30.074 is it the same amount of pollution as 50,000 cars 0:02:30.085 --> 0:02:34.195 b the same as a million cars? And for context, 0:02:34.205 --> 0:02:38.195 that's about how many cars Singapore has in total or 0:02:38.205 --> 0:02:43.913 c the same as 50 million cars. Le Ling any 0:02:43.925 --> 0:02:46.354 early thoughts or you wanna save it to the end. 0:02:46.964 --> 0:02:48.235 I'll save it to the end. 0:02:49.710 --> 0:02:52.699 All right. It's news time, Le Ling. What stories have 0:02:52.710 --> 0:02:56.970 captured your attention from the newsroom this week? Well, the 0:02:56.979 --> 0:03:01.080 first one comes from your motherland. Time is running out 0:03:01.089 --> 0:03:05.100 to save the Great Barrier Reef. Jack. That's right, Australia. 0:03:06.809 --> 0:03:08.720 So time is running out to save the Great Barrier 0:03:08.729 --> 0:03:10.978 Reef but not so bad that it needs to be 0:03:10.990 --> 0:03:15.119 on the unesco's list of endangered heritage sites. Yet, 0:03:15.470 --> 0:03:17.770 a new report from the UN S Education science and 0:03:17.779 --> 0:03:21.899 cultural arms says the reef remains under serious threat and 0:03:21.910 --> 0:03:26.130 urgent action is needed to protect it. This includes calls 0:03:26.139 --> 0:03:29.970 for more ambitious climate targets. It's among a list of 0:03:29.979 --> 0:03:34.880 recommendations from the UNESCO report about preserving the reef status 0:03:34.889 --> 0:03:38.809 as a world heritage site, but the report stopped short 0:03:38.820 --> 0:03:41.809 of recommending that the reef be placed on its list 0:03:41.820 --> 0:03:43.649 of endangered heritage 0:03:43.753 --> 0:03:46.733 site, something that Australia wants to avoid. Now, it did 0:03:46.742 --> 0:03:51.013 however suggest that Australia submit a progress report by February 0:03:51.022 --> 0:03:54.582 next year. The committee could consider including the reef in 0:03:54.593 --> 0:03:59.292 its list of endangered sites. Later in 2026. The report 0:03:59.302 --> 0:04:02.662 cited concerns about pollution from land clearing that then flow 0:04:02.673 --> 0:04:05.973 into the reef about invasive starfish that feed on the 0:04:05.983 --> 0:04:08.563 coral as well as the mass coral bleaching over the 0:04:08.572 --> 0:04:11.772 past few months. And it wants Australia to make 0:04:12.535 --> 0:04:15.955 the extent of coral die off from this latest bleaching 0:04:15.966 --> 0:04:20.506 event going on for a couple of years and particularly 0:04:20.515 --> 0:04:24.976 the previous Australian government was very strong on not having 0:04:24.985 --> 0:04:28.846 the reef listed as endangered, something that it considers a 0:04:28.855 --> 0:04:32.135 hammer blow to one of the most important sites that 0:04:32.145 --> 0:04:34.895 Australia has. But something has to be done. And I 0:04:34.906 --> 0:04:37.126 feel like a lot of this is just putting our 0:04:37.135 --> 0:04:40.195 head in the sand pretending that there's not a big problem. 0:04:40.579 --> 0:04:43.799 There's clearly issues at the reef. Why does Australia not 0:04:43.809 --> 0:04:47.320 want to be on the endangered heritage sites for the reef? 0:04:47.329 --> 0:04:50.649 Why not? It suggests to me that there will be 0:04:50.660 --> 0:04:55.920 blame placed on the lack of protections that have been implemented, 0:04:55.928 --> 0:04:57.200 that activity 0:04:57.285 --> 0:05:01.565 that continue all around the reef, including mining, including shipping 0:05:01.575 --> 0:05:05.625 continues and that is putting the reef at further risk. 0:05:05.695 --> 0:05:08.424 So there's a political angle to that. There's a lot 0:05:08.434 --> 0:05:12.553 of politics being played between the government and unesco interesting 0:05:12.565 --> 0:05:13.864 space to watch. I think. 0:05:14.220 --> 0:05:17.839 So. Next up, Jack remember how just over a month 0:05:17.850 --> 0:05:20.609 ago before the oil spill in Singapore took up all 0:05:20.619 --> 0:05:23.320 our head space here. What the big news was the 0:05:23.329 --> 0:05:27.440 extreme turbulence on SQ 321 that led to one death 0:05:27.910 --> 0:05:30.589 and more than 100 people injured. That's like just over 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.539 a month ago, it seems much longer than that, doesn't it? Well, 0:05:33.549 --> 0:05:36.399 we got word this week of technology that can reduce 0:05:36.410 --> 0:05:39.988 the danger of air turbulence. Something that is reportedly becoming 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.070 much more common due to climate change. 0:05:42.380 --> 0:05:46.600 And interestingly, it's not new technology. It's actually something that's 0:05:46.609 --> 0:05:50.299 already being used in self driving cars. Jack, you ever 0:05:50.309 --> 0:05:53.290 heard of Lidar? I've heard of it, but I don't 0:05:53.299 --> 0:05:56.839 have a self driving car. So maybe you better explain 0:05:56.850 --> 0:06:00.109 it to me. So it's a type of 3D laser 0:06:00.119 --> 0:06:05.549 scanning technology that can apparently also detect clear air turbulence 0:06:05.570 --> 0:06:09.820 up to 20 miles or 32 kilometers ahead of an aircraft. 0:06:09.829 --> 0:06:10.880 And this is according to a 0:06:11.350 --> 0:06:14.089 specialist Chang Chin Wei in an interview with media Corp 0:06:14.100 --> 0:06:18.469 program talking point. Now Chung explains how lidar can detect 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.820 clear air turbulence in the absence of water vapors, which 0:06:22.829 --> 0:06:26.010 current weather radar systems cannot do. And it does this 0:06:26.019 --> 0:06:30.159 by picking up the movement of air molecules and sending 0:06:30.170 --> 0:06:32.809 this data back to the pilots on a screen. Now 0:06:32.820 --> 0:06:36.010 it's color coded. So red means the object is closer 0:06:36.019 --> 0:06:39.808 to the aircraft lighter color means it's further away. 0:06:40.089 --> 0:06:43.209 The question of course is when can it deploy for 0:06:43.220 --> 0:06:47.589 aircraft use? Cheng says about 3 to 10 years possibly 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.709 because there's still a lot of hurdles to overcome, there's 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.820 a need for high processing power and that also requires 0:06:53.829 --> 0:06:57.109 a big lighter unit which adds weight to the aircraft 0:06:57.119 --> 0:07:01.469 in flight. Now altitude also affects the range of detection. 0:07:01.829 --> 0:07:05.299 Hm Super interesting and it seems like something in terms 0:07:05.309 --> 0:07:08.969 of safety that would be really useful. We've heard since 0:07:08.980 --> 0:07:10.649 the Singapore Airlines incident, 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.579 a bunch of other planes have been encountering something similar. 0:07:14.589 --> 0:07:18.100 We know that climate change is obviously making turbulence worse 0:07:18.109 --> 0:07:20.880 and more frequent. Yeah, maybe three years would be better 0:07:21.179 --> 0:07:24.390 in 10 years. If we're waiting 10 years, then might 0:07:24.399 --> 0:07:27.160 take some investment from some of these airlines as well. 0:07:27.190 --> 0:07:29.980 The good news is it's already existing tax. So it's 0:07:29.989 --> 0:07:33.179 not something that needs a longer runway to runway, needs 0:07:33.190 --> 0:07:36.230 a longer runway to deploy. Ok, let's go to our 0:07:36.239 --> 0:07:37.459 main story this week, 0:07:38.670 --> 0:07:43.089 around 400 metric tons of oil was spilled following Friday's 0:07:43.100 --> 0:07:46.329 shipping crash when a dredger struck a bunker vessel and 0:07:46.339 --> 0:07:50.130 ruptured an oil tank. And where does all that oily 0:07:50.140 --> 0:07:53.179 sand go? A big part of cleaning up last Friday's 0:07:53.190 --> 0:07:57.269 oil spill involves removing and treating oil soaked sand from 0:07:57.279 --> 0:08:00.670 affected shorelines. Singapore is deploying more oil absorb 0:08:01.049 --> 0:08:04.850 booms to contain the oil spill along the southern shores. 0:08:04.859 --> 0:08:09.600 Two kingfishers drenched in oil have already died despite being rescued. 0:08:09.779 --> 0:08:13.119 Plans to monitor wildlife with surveys and long term research 0:08:13.130 --> 0:08:16.380 are in the works. The next stage of cleaning could 0:08:16.390 --> 0:08:20.089 take up to three months with sea activities only resuming 0:08:20.100 --> 0:08:22.769 after the water is repeatedly tested, 0:08:25.279 --> 0:08:28.779 oil and water don't mix. It's an old saying and 0:08:28.790 --> 0:08:32.400 when it comes to these marine or industrial incidents, it's 0:08:32.409 --> 0:08:35.570 true and we hate to see it happen. The good 0:08:35.580 --> 0:08:38.369 news generally is that the number of accidents and the 0:08:38.380 --> 0:08:42.030 amounts of oil being spilled around the world is reducing. 0:08:42.450 --> 0:08:46.989 In the 19 seventies every year, there were 79 spills 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.330 of over seven tons of oil on average. Now in 0:08:50.340 --> 0:08:52.729 2023 there were only 10, 0:08:53.059 --> 0:08:57.390 the average this decade is 6.8. Let's kind of look 0:08:57.400 --> 0:08:59.449 at the biggest oil spills. I think we can kind 0:08:59.460 --> 0:09:02.450 of put the Singapore spill into context a little bit. 0:09:02.780 --> 0:09:05.400 The biggest ever Li Ling. You probably don't remember this 0:09:05.409 --> 0:09:11.460 one in 1910 was the Lake View Gusher in California. 0:09:11.539 --> 0:09:16.750 It released an estimated 378 million gallons of crude oil, 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:17.760 some one 0:09:17.940 --> 0:09:21.880 0.2 million tons. And then during the Gulf War, not 0:09:21.890 --> 0:09:24.679 a single oil spill, but the biggest oil disaster the 0:09:24.690 --> 0:09:27.640 world has ever seen where especially in Kuwait, billions of 0:09:27.650 --> 0:09:30.760 gallons were spilled and burnt. And of course, something that 0:09:30.770 --> 0:09:33.869 you probably do remember and we all remember the Deepwater 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.459 Horizon disaster in the Gulf of Mexico in 2010. That 0:09:37.469 --> 0:09:39.849 was a shocking incident. Yeah, it was and you know, 0:09:39.859 --> 0:09:42.130 we were in the US at the time and following 0:09:42.140 --> 0:09:43.200 it very closely 0:09:43.469 --> 0:09:46.369 remember that this spill kept on going for about five 0:09:46.380 --> 0:09:51.579 months from April to September. It was astonishing how long 0:09:51.590 --> 0:09:54.598 it took to. Yeah, and I remember how mind boggling 0:09:54.609 --> 0:09:57.669 it was that we were seeing this oil just gushing 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.809 out from the pipe on the ocean floor happening in 0:09:59.820 --> 0:10:03.450 real time and how helpless we all felt because for 0:10:03.460 --> 0:10:07.478 so long, nothing could be done to stop it. But 0:10:07.630 --> 0:10:11.179 the difference, that was an ocean rig, the Lakeview was 0:10:11.190 --> 0:10:12.890 an oil well, the Gulf War 0:10:12.989 --> 0:10:16.989 was a war. So these spills from ships. So there's 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.400 a little bit of a difference to the situation we're 0:10:19.409 --> 0:10:21.869 talking about. Now. That's correct. That's correct. And when you 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.070 compare apples to apples, we need to consider shipping oil 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.869 spills like the Exxon Valdez Supertanker spill of 1989. I 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:30.690 think for a lot of people that's still fresh in 0:10:30.700 --> 0:10:36.169 their minds, that was more than 37,000 tons of oil spilled. 0:10:36.179 --> 0:10:41.270 Now Singapore's largest maritime oil spill was about 28,000 tons 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:42.400 when two tankers collected 0:10:42.700 --> 0:10:46.309 in 1997. So if you think about the 400 tons 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.390 spilled in this latest incident here in Singapore, it is 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:54.848 small in comparison but still the damage is done. Exactly right. Now, 0:10:54.859 --> 0:10:57.449 why does it happen? You've been there? You've kind of 0:10:57.460 --> 0:11:00.608 looked at the forensics of this incident. A lot of 0:11:00.619 --> 0:11:04.390 it has been about human error, technical issues and accidents, 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:08.130 even weather conditions like hurricanes can cause incidents resulting in 0:11:08.140 --> 0:11:11.319 oil spills. So when it comes to these oil spills 0:11:11.330 --> 0:11:11.929 from ships, 0:11:12.140 --> 0:11:14.710 the question that comes up and something that struck my 0:11:14.719 --> 0:11:18.270 mind initially, when I saw this incident in Singapore is 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:22.760 whether these overly congested shipping ports have something to do 0:11:22.770 --> 0:11:25.950 with it. That's a very valid question. And you're not 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:30.150 alone in asking this. Others have also asked and Singapore's 0:11:30.159 --> 0:11:33.369 government says this spill here wasn't a result of congestion 0:11:33.380 --> 0:11:36.609 and preliminary findings show that it was actually caused by 0:11:36.619 --> 0:11:40.219 the tragical losing engine and steering controls. The Singapore government 0:11:40.229 --> 0:11:41.450 also said that the port water 0:11:41.599 --> 0:11:45.429 here and the anchorages are not congested. But it's a 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.409 valid question, especially when you consider that this is one 0:11:48.419 --> 0:11:51.669 of the world's busiest ports and whether having more vessels 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.770 in the water increases the risk. I think the simple 0:11:54.780 --> 0:11:58.239 fact is there are increasing concerns all around the world 0:11:58.250 --> 0:12:01.348 that just by having more vessels in the water carrying 0:12:01.359 --> 0:12:05.130 large amounts of toxic cargoes, incidents can keep on happening. 0:12:05.140 --> 0:12:08.229 And the stakes we know are so high for important 0:12:08.239 --> 0:12:10.969 ecosystems and the communities that rely on them. 0:12:11.349 --> 0:12:13.729 So I want to look at the case of the Philippines, 0:12:13.739 --> 0:12:16.450 a story called Black Waters that I put together last 0:12:16.460 --> 0:12:20.659 year in February about seven kilometers offshore from the island 0:12:20.669 --> 0:12:27.000 province of Oriental Mindoro, a tanker named Mt Princess Empress 0:12:27.010 --> 0:12:30.830 sank in rough sea conditions. Now it had a toxic 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:35.289 cargo of 800,000 L of industrial oil which began spilling 0:12:35.299 --> 0:12:38.919 into one of the world's most important biodiversity hotspots. 0:12:39.289 --> 0:12:42.289 It's called the Verde Island Passage and it's a vital 0:12:42.299 --> 0:12:45.909 waterway that separates Luzon and Medora. And now this is 0:12:45.919 --> 0:12:49.189 part of the coral triangle and the VIP as they 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.229 like to call it over there is kind of the 0:12:51.239 --> 0:12:56.130 center of the center of global shore fish biodiversity and 0:12:56.140 --> 0:12:59.770 it's estimated to support about 2 million people in terms 0:12:59.780 --> 0:13:02.580 of food and livelihoods. So it's not the kind of 0:13:02.590 --> 0:13:06.260 place where you want industrial oil accidents happening. 0:13:06.650 --> 0:13:09.659 It's also this fisheries hub. It's a burgeoning e tourism 0:13:09.669 --> 0:13:14.229 site and critical shipping pathway. So basically after the spill, 0:13:14.239 --> 0:13:16.630 the same things you've seen in Singapore happen there 0:13:16.929 --> 0:13:20.320 across this vast shoreline in the Philippines. The Hazmat suits 0:13:20.330 --> 0:13:23.369 the blobs of oil appearing in the sand. And sadly, 0:13:23.380 --> 0:13:26.429 for many locals there, the decimation of their local fishing 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.450 industry now all of it was cleaned up, but people 0:13:29.460 --> 0:13:31.940 are still really scared and there's a fear that the 0:13:31.950 --> 0:13:36.359 environment and local people's livelihoods are being imperiled by a 0:13:36.369 --> 0:13:40.669 regional rush to further develop the fossil fuel industry, which 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.030 I think goes at odds to what we understand of 0:13:44.039 --> 0:13:45.309 the climate change agenda 0:13:45.619 --> 0:13:48.150 and especially this is happening in the form of liquefied 0:13:48.159 --> 0:13:53.469 natural gas hubs or LNG and potentially more activated oil 0:13:53.479 --> 0:13:56.809 and gas fields, offshore oil and gas fields and then 0:13:56.890 --> 0:14:00.979 heavy shipping and those potentially dangerous cargoes are one of 0:14:00.989 --> 0:14:04.239 the symptoms of the growth of that industry. And so 0:14:04.250 --> 0:14:07.119 too is the leakage of heavy metals into waterways and 0:14:07.130 --> 0:14:10.880 heightened interest in the expansion of offshore oil and gas drilling. 0:14:11.359 --> 0:14:14.429 So I did an interview with Ivan Andres. He's from 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:18.900 the Center for Energy Ecology and Development or seed. It's 0:14:18.909 --> 0:14:22.880 a Philippine NGO focused on sustainable energy industry and governments 0:14:22.890 --> 0:14:26.380 and they've been monitoring the situation closely. Um 0:14:26.390 --> 0:14:31.429 The most recent pressure that the VIP felt we believe 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:36.010 are the impacts of the fossil gas industries. We saw 0:14:36.020 --> 0:14:40.330 the impact of bankers passing through the Red Island Passage. 0:14:40.719 --> 0:14:44.380 And as a result, there are locations of oil spills 0:14:44.390 --> 0:14:49.619 both documented and undocumented because there are, there are capsizing 0:14:49.630 --> 0:14:52.539 of ships in the area that are not being picked 0:14:52.549 --> 0:14:53.940 up by the media. 0:14:54.349 --> 0:14:58.479 And we see that as the fossil gas industries and 0:14:58.489 --> 0:15:02.760 the LNG terminals are being built more and more tankers, 0:15:02.770 --> 0:15:07.179 LNG tankers will be able to pass through the area. 0:15:07.190 --> 0:15:10.659 And of course, with the elevated number of these tankers 0:15:10.669 --> 0:15:14.090 in the area, there is more chances of capsizing and 0:15:14.099 --> 0:15:17.890 catastrophic events such as the one we saw in Oriental mind. 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.849 Of course, Singapore is a major importer of LNG liquefied 0:15:22.859 --> 0:15:26.450 natural gas. It's the region's second largest gas importer and 0:15:26.460 --> 0:15:30.590 has been expanding its existing LNG importing facility and then 0:15:30.599 --> 0:15:34.059 it also imports large amounts of oil and petroleum. So 0:15:34.070 --> 0:15:38.030 there are inevitably toxic cargoes in the surrounding waters all 0:15:38.039 --> 0:15:41.619 the time and that has to be carefully managed. Yeah, exactly. 0:15:41.630 --> 0:15:43.979 And as renewables increasingly 0:15:44.054 --> 0:15:47.244 enter the energy mix, you'd expect that these movements of 0:15:47.255 --> 0:15:51.794 fossil fuels will inevitably reduce. But at the same time, 0:15:51.974 --> 0:15:54.885 we are actually not weaning off oil as quickly as 0:15:54.895 --> 0:15:58.364 you might expect. Now, OPEC which is the collective of 0:15:58.375 --> 0:16:01.434 major oil producing nations predicts that the world will be 0:16:01.445 --> 0:16:05.765 using more oil in 2045 than it does today. Yeah, 0:16:05.775 --> 0:16:09.155 that's really discouraging when you think about that 0:16:09.570 --> 0:16:11.909 and you know, Jack, when it comes to greening the 0:16:11.919 --> 0:16:14.320 maritime industry, there is a will to do that but 0:16:14.330 --> 0:16:17.909 not enough, I suppose, just based on what we're hearing 0:16:17.919 --> 0:16:21.239 from countries in the region, it's challenging for sure. But 0:16:21.250 --> 0:16:23.250 a lot of it also has to do with the 0:16:23.260 --> 0:16:27.090 lack of deployable alternatives. The future we know is in 0:16:27.099 --> 0:16:30.150 greening the fuel, greening maritime fuel, but most ships 0:16:30.414 --> 0:16:34.215 still run on conventional fuel. And although we are seeing 0:16:34.224 --> 0:16:38.674 growth in emerging alternatives like ammonia and methanol, these synthetic 0:16:38.684 --> 0:16:42.534 fuels may be more sustainable but not zero carbon. They're 0:16:42.544 --> 0:16:46.075 also still very expensive and much of their green value 0:16:46.085 --> 0:16:49.005 will be in greening the hydrogen that they're made from 0:16:49.015 --> 0:16:50.994 and lowering the cost of production. 0:16:51.260 --> 0:16:54.320 We are clearly not there yet and there's also the 0:16:54.330 --> 0:16:57.429 safety issue. Ammonia is known to be highly toxic and 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.010 dangerous in the event of a spill, a ship sinking 0:17:00.020 --> 0:17:04.129 with a cargo of ammonia could potentially sterilize quote unquote 0:17:04.140 --> 0:17:06.879 cubic miles of ocean. And that's according to one leading 0:17:06.890 --> 0:17:08.550 expert on the issue 0:17:08.900 --> 0:17:12.150 and that's pretty scary. Now, there are also safety concerns 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.560 around methanol as it is also toxic and flammable and 0:17:15.569 --> 0:17:20.530 must be handled carefully. Lots of barriers to greening up 0:17:20.540 --> 0:17:23.390 the industry, but maybe let's not forget, electric, it may 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.629 not be the silver bullet, but there are a lot 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.280 of ferries especially in Europe and also in Thailand, we 0:17:28.290 --> 0:17:29.119 are starting to see 0:17:29.589 --> 0:17:32.989 that are turning to battery powered motors and I think 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.718 for situations where distance isn't a major factor or you 0:17:36.729 --> 0:17:39.930 have close to shore operations, it does seem very practical. 0:17:39.939 --> 0:17:42.699 And we've discussed before that Singapore is looking at, rolling 0:17:42.709 --> 0:17:45.510 out more of these types of vessels. And I'm also 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.609 really on board the wind train 0:17:47.869 --> 0:17:51.130 or the wind ship in this case. Yeah, let's go 0:17:51.140 --> 0:17:54.609 old school. Like 20 commercial cargo ships are already using 0:17:54.619 --> 0:17:58.329 wind power to reduce their fuel use. So imagine a 0:17:58.339 --> 0:18:01.290 world where the wind rules again. Don't rule it out 0:18:01.300 --> 0:18:03.639 for the sake of not having to deal with more 0:18:03.650 --> 0:18:06.849 of these types of horrible spills year on year. 0:18:07.500 --> 0:18:10.760 And they're also solar powered boats. I don't know if 0:18:10.770 --> 0:18:13.500 you've heard or seen them. I've read a bit about them. 0:18:13.510 --> 0:18:16.900 Not many but they exist and there's even a cruise 0:18:16.910 --> 0:18:21.579 company that plans to launch an electric ship with retractable 0:18:21.589 --> 0:18:24.729 cells that have solar panels on them. Can you imagine 0:18:24.739 --> 0:18:29.319 this solar cells? So there you go, electricity from wind 0:18:29.329 --> 0:18:31.079 and the sun all in one. 0:18:32.319 --> 0:18:36.899 Ok. Let's get our answer to the quiz to repeat 0:18:36.910 --> 0:18:40.400 the question. How significant do you think the pollution is 0:18:40.500 --> 0:18:45.349 from one typical large shipping container vessel? Is it the 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.660 same as 50,000 cars, 0:18:47.939 --> 0:18:51.599 the same as a million cars or the same as 0:18:51.609 --> 0:18:58.790 50 million cars? Those are all very different options. So 50,000, yeah, 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.718 I know. But you know, different variations of big so 0:19:01.729 --> 0:19:05.420 50,000 cars. I think it's too small. A million cars. 0:19:05.849 --> 0:19:10.119 It sounds like that is a reasonable middle ground. 50 0:19:10.130 --> 0:19:13.540 million cars is a lot, but we're talking about a 0:19:13.550 --> 0:19:16.439 huge shipping container vessel 0:19:16.959 --> 0:19:20.579 carrying all that fuel. So I hope it's not 50 0:19:20.589 --> 0:19:22.849 million cars, but I'm gonna go with that. Actually, you're 0:19:22.859 --> 0:19:26.260 going with 50 million. I'm going with bold, a bold 0:19:26.270 --> 0:19:30.180 choice and you are correct. It is 50 million cars. 0:19:30.189 --> 0:19:34.339 And this, we're talking about a large modern vessel astonishing 0:19:34.699 --> 0:19:38.419 and further to that, the 15 largest ships in the 0:19:38.430 --> 0:19:38.939 world 0:19:39.300 --> 0:19:43.729 emit as much nitrogen oxide and sulfur oxide as the 0:19:43.739 --> 0:19:48.400 world's 760 million cars, 15 ships the same as every 0:19:48.410 --> 0:19:51.589 car in the world. And these contribute greatly to obviously 0:19:51.599 --> 0:19:54.439 bad air in cities and they also cause diseases like 0:19:54.449 --> 0:19:55.770 cancer and asthma. 0:19:56.209 --> 0:19:59.810 So the shipping industry as a whole represents up to 3% 0:19:59.819 --> 0:20:03.879 of global emissions more than the aviation sector and 10% 0:20:03.890 --> 0:20:07.400 of transport emissions. So lots of work to try and 0:20:07.410 --> 0:20:11.198 find solutions here because the difference you can make seems 0:20:11.209 --> 0:20:13.688 like it would be profound. And that's why there are 0:20:13.699 --> 0:20:17.679 global efforts to try to reduce the amount of these 0:20:17.689 --> 0:20:18.199 pollutant 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.839 gasses like sulfur oxide from marine fuel. So in the 0:20:21.849 --> 0:20:24.829 previous episode, we were talking about low sulfur fuel, which 0:20:24.839 --> 0:20:28.349 is what the spill was from this Singapore incident. And 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:30.699 that was part of efforts to try and manage or 0:20:30.709 --> 0:20:35.129 reduce the amount of sulfur content in the fuel and 0:20:35.140 --> 0:20:37.699 Singapore suffers from bad air. I'm sure you know about it. 0:20:37.709 --> 0:20:40.260 A lot of that is because of the shipping industry. 0:20:40.890 --> 0:20:43.770 So let's clean it up. We can have cleaner air 0:20:43.780 --> 0:20:45.430 to breathe for everybody. 0:20:46.239 --> 0:20:49.069 All right, that's it for climate conversations this week. Thank you. 0:20:49.079 --> 0:20:52.359 As always for your company. Every Thursday, we have a 0:20:52.369 --> 0:20:55.140 new episode and good to have you all here today 0:20:55.150 --> 0:20:57.800 and we hope to catch up again real soon. Bye 0:20:57.810 --> 0:21:00.130 for now. I'm Li Ling Tan and I'm Jack Boyd. 0:21:00.250 --> 0:21:02.579 Thanks as always as well to the team that put 0:21:02.589 --> 0:21:07.540 together this podcast, Tiffany Janani, Jahari, Kristina Robert and Sai Ye.