1 00:00:03,509 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast, Steve ask me 2 00:00:07,769 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: what's my favorite month of the year? Alright. What is 3 00:00:10,529 --> 00:00:15,010 Speaker 1: your favorite month in the year? December? It's my birthday 4 00:00:15,699 --> 00:00:21,670 Speaker 1: and the podcast team takes a much needed break in December. Ah, ok, 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,149 Speaker 1: that sounds nice. I should have known that was coming. 6 00:00:25,530 --> 00:00:28,770 Speaker 1: So I'm telling you now. So what happens in December 7 00:00:28,780 --> 00:00:32,319 Speaker 1: is that we clear our leave and we think of 8 00:00:32,330 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: new material that we can come back with a bang 9 00:00:34,930 --> 00:00:38,759 Speaker 1: in January 2025. But if you're listening in, don't worry, 10 00:00:38,770 --> 00:00:40,958 Speaker 1: we will still fill the air time with some of 11 00:00:40,970 --> 00:00:43,950 Speaker 1: the great stuff that we've done before and we'll just 12 00:00:43,959 --> 00:00:45,388 Speaker 1: replay it for you so that you can 13 00:00:45,490 --> 00:00:47,580 Speaker 1: hear it and maybe feel it's even greater than it 14 00:00:47,590 --> 00:00:50,139 Speaker 1: was before. Yeah, so we picked what we call our 15 00:00:50,150 --> 00:00:54,310 Speaker 1: best of and these are our top performing episodes for 16 00:00:54,319 --> 00:00:58,009 Speaker 1: 2024 all December. You get to hear our voices still, 17 00:00:58,020 --> 00:01:01,110 Speaker 1: so tune in and we'll be back with a blast 18 00:01:01,159 --> 00:01:04,529 Speaker 1: in the brand new year in January 2025. Yeah. Don't 19 00:01:04,540 --> 00:01:05,430 Speaker 1: miss us too much. 20 00:01:07,980 --> 00:01:11,150 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone and welcome back to this episode of deep guy. 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,459 Speaker 1: My name is Christina Robert and I'm here with my 22 00:01:13,470 --> 00:01:17,489 Speaker 1: co-host Steven Chen. Hello. Hello, everyone. Hi, Steve. Ok. So 23 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:21,550 Speaker 1: you travel quite a bit for work too, right. Tell 24 00:01:21,559 --> 00:01:24,279 Speaker 1: me what's your biggest fear about traveling? I have to 25 00:01:24,290 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: fly budget. No, I'm kidding. 26 00:01:27,569 --> 00:01:30,169 Speaker 1: The comforts of life because we always fly budget so 27 00:01:30,190 --> 00:01:33,699 Speaker 1: privileged when you're on a plane that doesn't feel very safe. 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,550 Speaker 1: What do you mean? Sometimes for whatever reason you hear 29 00:01:36,559 --> 00:01:38,430 Speaker 1: things in the plane which are a bit clinky and 30 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,730 Speaker 1: you start thinking, well, this seatbelt doesn't really click so well, 31 00:01:41,889 --> 00:01:44,379 Speaker 1: it makes me a bit fearful of that journey that 32 00:01:44,389 --> 00:01:46,949 Speaker 1: I'm taking. Ok. And of course, turbulence is one of 33 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:48,690 Speaker 1: those two when the plane is rocking. I mean, you know, 34 00:01:48,699 --> 00:01:52,150 Speaker 1: nobody feels safe in that kind of environment. Yeah, exactly. 35 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,569 Speaker 1: So I'm not really good with flying. I have anxiety 36 00:01:54,580 --> 00:01:54,910 Speaker 1: and it flares. 37 00:01:55,300 --> 00:01:58,790 Speaker 1: So for me, right, if I were on that flight 38 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,949 Speaker 1: sq 321, which is the reason why we're talking about 39 00:02:01,959 --> 00:02:05,910 Speaker 1: this today, I would have literally just, yeah, died of 40 00:02:05,919 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: anxiety first before any injuries. I think everyone knows about 41 00:02:10,649 --> 00:02:12,788 Speaker 1: this story now and they will probably have seen some 42 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,369 Speaker 1: rather horrific images and videos of what happened on that 43 00:02:15,380 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: flight from London to Singapore that happened on the 21st 44 00:02:18,529 --> 00:02:22,750 Speaker 1: of May. It hit severe turbulence made an emergency landing 45 00:02:22,830 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: in Bangkok. One passenger died and dozens others were badly. 46 00:02:27,139 --> 00:02:31,329 Speaker 1: So today we're going to discuss the rather complicated issue 47 00:02:31,339 --> 00:02:34,789 Speaker 1: of airline compensation. Who decides how much to pay out 48 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,020 Speaker 1: when something bad happens? Why do people hire lawyers, for example? 49 00:02:39,179 --> 00:02:41,388 Speaker 1: And when do they decide that they want to go 50 00:02:41,399 --> 00:02:45,190 Speaker 1: to court? Can you negotiate for more money without actually 51 00:02:45,199 --> 00:02:47,580 Speaker 1: going to court? These are some of the things we 52 00:02:47,589 --> 00:02:50,059 Speaker 1: want to discuss today. We got some legal folks with 53 00:02:50,070 --> 00:02:50,570 Speaker 1: us to help 54 00:02:50,649 --> 00:02:54,070 Speaker 1: for to answer those questions. This recording is also happening 55 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,029 Speaker 1: online because since we're in the aviation sector, these guys 56 00:02:57,038 --> 00:02:59,460 Speaker 1: don't stay put in one country. So both our guests 57 00:02:59,470 --> 00:03:02,850 Speaker 1: are overseas at the moment. Mr Paul NG is the 58 00:03:02,860 --> 00:03:05,339 Speaker 1: head of Aviation at Raja and Tan. He's calling in 59 00:03:05,350 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: from New York. He's also an adjunct professor at NUS 60 00:03:08,529 --> 00:03:10,228 Speaker 2: Law. Thank you. Happy to be here, 61 00:03:10,538 --> 00:03:13,429 Speaker 1: Mr Chui Jing Yan, a disputes lawyer from Eugene Tuai 62 00:03:13,630 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: Singham L LP is in Bangkok. Hello everyone. My pleasure 63 00:03:17,330 --> 00:03:18,199 Speaker 1: to be here as well 64 00:03:22,630 --> 00:03:25,489 Speaker 1: on a recent flight out of KL we had already 65 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:28,850 Speaker 1: boarded and then the pilot basically said, oh Changi is 66 00:03:28,860 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: not accepting any more flights in because there's a severe thunderstorm. 67 00:03:32,169 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: So the flight took off something like two hours later. 68 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:39,110 Speaker 1: So it wasn't very long actually, but delays happen all 69 00:03:39,119 --> 00:03:41,729 Speaker 1: the time and we can't, you know, expect airlines to 70 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:44,009 Speaker 1: be compensating for every little thing, right? 71 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,419 Speaker 1: So my first question is what is compensation territory and 72 00:03:48,429 --> 00:03:51,220 Speaker 1: what gets you a food voucher in a hotel room Paul, 73 00:03:51,229 --> 00:03:52,380 Speaker 1: you want to start 74 00:03:52,389 --> 00:03:56,630 Speaker 2: sure. In terms of compensation territory at the high end, obviously, 75 00:03:56,639 --> 00:04:00,100 Speaker 2: bodily harm and property damage. And here we are talking 76 00:04:00,199 --> 00:04:03,610 Speaker 2: about people who are on board or within an area 77 00:04:03,619 --> 00:04:06,779 Speaker 2: that's within the control of the airline or the air operator. 78 00:04:06,809 --> 00:04:09,289 Speaker 2: In terms of what can you get compensated when you 79 00:04:09,300 --> 00:04:13,339 Speaker 2: are within this location. There are international conventions that deal 80 00:04:13,350 --> 00:04:15,919 Speaker 2: with it because aircraft obviously flies around the world. 81 00:04:16,218 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 2: The laws in each country is quite different. The most 82 00:04:19,049 --> 00:04:22,698 Speaker 2: widely ratified conventions, the Montreal Convention and we will come 83 00:04:22,709 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 2: back to that in just a while. And then if 84 00:04:24,488 --> 00:04:27,598 Speaker 2: you come down the scale from bodily harm, death and 85 00:04:27,609 --> 00:04:33,058 Speaker 2: property damage, there's delays and baggage loss. Now, that's more interesting. 86 00:04:33,069 --> 00:04:35,438 Speaker 2: I don't know whether you've read the back of your ticket. 87 00:04:35,688 --> 00:04:39,759 Speaker 2: There are terms and conditions so contractually you have certain rights, 88 00:04:39,769 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 2: that's one, 89 00:04:40,850 --> 00:04:45,019 Speaker 2: but rights are also imposed on the airline in your favor. 90 00:04:45,029 --> 00:04:48,029 Speaker 2: So for instance, if you flew in the US or Europe, 91 00:04:48,049 --> 00:04:52,368 Speaker 2: there are quite favorable rules in terms of compensation as 92 00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:55,058 Speaker 2: to how many hours beyond which you should get a 93 00:04:55,070 --> 00:04:58,349 Speaker 2: meal ticket, you should get money, you should get accommodation. 94 00:04:58,359 --> 00:04:58,649 Speaker 2: Let me 95 00:04:58,660 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: jump in there because there is the eu air passenger rights. 96 00:05:01,209 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: Is that what you're talking about? Can you give an 97 00:05:02,769 --> 00:05:04,669 Speaker 1: example of one or two things that would come under 98 00:05:04,678 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: these rights 99 00:05:05,369 --> 00:05:05,890 Speaker 2: delays 100 00:05:05,899 --> 00:05:09,229 Speaker 2: beyond a certain number of hours will entitle you from 101 00:05:09,238 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 2: a whole range of things 102 00:05:10,247 --> 00:05:15,366 Speaker 2: from food vouchers to accommodation to money. Those are strict, 103 00:05:15,377 --> 00:05:18,696 Speaker 2: meaning that even if the airline was to show that 104 00:05:18,707 --> 00:05:24,677 Speaker 2: there is unfavorable weather conditions, the legislation protects very favorably 105 00:05:24,687 --> 00:05:26,016 Speaker 2: the passenger. 106 00:05:26,027 --> 00:05:29,036 Speaker 1: So even if it wasn't the airline's fault, so to speak, 107 00:05:29,046 --> 00:05:32,217 Speaker 1: they would still have to compensate the passenger according to 108 00:05:32,226 --> 00:05:34,296 Speaker 1: that legislation. Right. That's what you're saying 109 00:05:34,307 --> 00:05:38,255 Speaker 2: in both the Montreal Convention and these other eu and 110 00:05:38,266 --> 00:05:39,407 Speaker 2: US legislation, 111 00:05:39,493 --> 00:05:42,104 Speaker 2: there are strict portions and there are portions that you 112 00:05:42,113 --> 00:05:44,873 Speaker 2: need to prove. And yes, there are strict portions which 113 00:05:44,884 --> 00:05:47,924 Speaker 2: doesn't matter what the conditions were. You are entitled to 114 00:05:47,933 --> 00:05:50,753 Speaker 2: a certain amount of recovery or remedy, which is good 115 00:05:50,764 --> 00:05:51,503 Speaker 2: news for people 116 00:05:51,514 --> 00:05:51,843 Speaker 2: flying. 117 00:05:51,854 --> 00:05:54,933 Speaker 1: Right. For example, if I took, let's say Air France 118 00:05:54,944 --> 00:05:58,753 Speaker 1: and I was flying to London, it comes under that 119 00:05:58,764 --> 00:06:01,794 Speaker 1: eu umbrella and something happens on that flight. It doesn't 120 00:06:01,803 --> 00:06:07,144 Speaker 1: matter what nationality, it doesn't matter where your original departure was. 121 00:06:07,153 --> 00:06:07,544 Speaker 2: There are 122 00:06:07,553 --> 00:06:08,764 Speaker 2: actually quite complicated 123 00:06:08,851 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: rules on that. The people who used to complain when 124 00:06:11,651 --> 00:06:13,830 Speaker 2: these rules were set up were low cost carriers because 125 00:06:13,841 --> 00:06:17,751 Speaker 2: their chance of having to compensate was the highest. But 126 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,411 Speaker 2: in fact, the eu legislation was set up to punish 127 00:06:21,420 --> 00:06:24,430 Speaker 2: low cost carriers if they didn't make their timing because 128 00:06:24,651 --> 00:06:28,411 Speaker 2: they charge low fares and passengers should have at least 129 00:06:28,420 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: a minimum expectation as now as to Singapore Airlines flying 130 00:06:32,890 --> 00:06:36,550 Speaker 2: into us space or say Air Asia starts to fly 131 00:06:36,670 --> 00:06:38,070 Speaker 2: and they used to fly to London. 132 00:06:38,380 --> 00:06:41,799 Speaker 2: There are parameters that have to apply. How large is 133 00:06:41,809 --> 00:06:44,630 Speaker 2: the portion of the flight in the eu before it 134 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,739 Speaker 2: qualifies for the legislation. 135 00:06:47,170 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: So it does sound a bit complicated, but essentially there 136 00:06:49,928 --> 00:06:53,510 Speaker 1: is some legislation to try and protect passengers a bit 137 00:06:53,519 --> 00:06:56,149 Speaker 1: more as you've mentioned. So when we look at this 138 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: case with SQ, is it then fair to say that 139 00:06:58,769 --> 00:07:00,399 Speaker 1: from what Paul's explained? Any, 140 00:07:00,475 --> 00:07:04,165 Speaker 1: anything that happens within the airline's control or within the 141 00:07:04,174 --> 00:07:08,815 Speaker 1: airline's premises, so to speak, they should be held responsible for. Absolutely. 142 00:07:08,825 --> 00:07:13,274 Speaker 1: The Montreal convention provides for a limit right now. It's 143 00:07:13,285 --> 00:07:17,415 Speaker 1: about us 170,000 where the airline has to pay if 144 00:07:17,424 --> 00:07:20,654 Speaker 1: you prove that you suffered that amount of damages regardless 145 00:07:20,665 --> 00:07:22,454 Speaker 1: of whether the airline was at fault. 146 00:07:22,899 --> 00:07:24,899 Speaker 1: And I think that makes a lot of sense because 147 00:07:24,910 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: when you're sitting on the airplane as a passenger, your 148 00:07:27,730 --> 00:07:30,309 Speaker 1: life is literally in the hands of the pilot and 149 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: his crew. And there's nothing you can do about anything 150 00:07:32,959 --> 00:07:37,079 Speaker 1: one of the rationales behind the Montreal convention. And before 151 00:07:37,089 --> 00:07:39,940 Speaker 1: the Montreal Convention existed, there was a Warsaw or Hague 152 00:07:39,950 --> 00:07:43,239 Speaker 1: convention where the limits were a bit different. But basically, 153 00:07:43,250 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 1: we have been seeing a trend where the compensation amounts 154 00:07:46,750 --> 00:07:49,140 Speaker 1: have been going up and up in terms of the 155 00:07:49,149 --> 00:07:51,299 Speaker 1: limit where you don't actually have to prove liability 156 00:07:51,515 --> 00:07:52,904 Speaker 1: on the part of the airline. It makes it a 157 00:07:52,915 --> 00:07:56,934 Speaker 1: lot simpler for the passengers. Of course, this doesn't mean 158 00:07:56,945 --> 00:08:00,834 Speaker 1: that you automatically get 100 and $70,000. The moment something 159 00:08:00,845 --> 00:08:02,765 Speaker 1: happens to you on the plane, you still have to 160 00:08:02,774 --> 00:08:05,204 Speaker 1: prove damage. You still have to prove what injury you suffered. 161 00:08:05,515 --> 00:08:08,454 Speaker 1: I think we should talk specifically about su 321 because 162 00:08:08,464 --> 00:08:10,665 Speaker 1: that's the one that everyone knows about. Now, they paid 163 00:08:10,674 --> 00:08:12,894 Speaker 1: out quite a handful of money from full refund of 164 00:08:12,904 --> 00:08:16,845 Speaker 1: tickets to cash up to $25,000 depending on their injuries. 165 00:08:17,045 --> 00:08:19,765 Speaker 1: The larger cash payments were called advance payments. 166 00:08:20,049 --> 00:08:22,869 Speaker 1: Now, we know these are actually goodwill payments and how 167 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,690 Speaker 1: do airlines typically decide on the amount? That's what we're 168 00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:28,619 Speaker 1: curious to find out. Why did some people get 25? 169 00:08:28,630 --> 00:08:31,519 Speaker 1: Some people get less? Some people get way more even 170 00:08:31,529 --> 00:08:34,630 Speaker 1: before there's investigation or anything, right? Tell us why did 171 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,950 Speaker 1: they decide to give up this money? Just like that 172 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,598 Speaker 2: quite a lot has been said and speculated as to 173 00:08:39,609 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 2: the reasons Singapore Airlines is a premier carrier and its 174 00:08:43,729 --> 00:08:46,669 Speaker 2: reputation has to be protected. It is valuable. 175 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,090 Speaker 2: So a gratitude payment where people are not asking for it. 176 00:08:51,109 --> 00:08:55,569 Speaker 2: My understanding is 10,000 for minor injuries and then 25,000. 177 00:08:55,580 --> 00:08:58,339 Speaker 2: But that's just the initial advance payment. As you say, 178 00:08:58,349 --> 00:09:01,859 Speaker 2: it could be more for the person who was deceased. 179 00:09:01,869 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 2: They are discussing what is an appropriate level of competition. 180 00:09:05,450 --> 00:09:08,989 Speaker 2: It shows actually to the public that they are concerned 181 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,020 Speaker 2: about their passenger 182 00:09:10,216 --> 00:09:13,795 Speaker 2: and that they are prepared to put the money where 183 00:09:13,806 --> 00:09:17,315 Speaker 2: their mouth is and compensate them where injury that's on 184 00:09:17,325 --> 00:09:17,776 Speaker 2: their 185 00:09:17,835 --> 00:09:18,536 Speaker 2: airplanes. 186 00:09:18,736 --> 00:09:20,814 Speaker 1: But in a way they had no obligation to do so. 187 00:09:20,825 --> 00:09:23,335 Speaker 1: Are they trying to front load? What could be a 188 00:09:23,346 --> 00:09:25,056 Speaker 1: possible crisis down the 189 00:09:25,065 --> 00:09:25,325 Speaker 1: line 190 00:09:25,335 --> 00:09:29,005 Speaker 2: under the Montreal convention is there is a strict liability 191 00:09:29,205 --> 00:09:32,945 Speaker 2: up to a certain amount of 100 special drawing rights 192 00:09:33,131 --> 00:09:36,692 Speaker 2: is about 100 and $70,000. But you have to prove 193 00:09:36,702 --> 00:09:39,072 Speaker 2: that loss, it's not free. So 194 00:09:39,081 --> 00:09:42,290 Speaker 1: this is really goodwill in a way in. You got 195 00:09:42,302 --> 00:09:44,631 Speaker 1: something to add to this one. I don't think it 196 00:09:44,642 --> 00:09:47,531 Speaker 1: has been very clear as I position on whether let's 197 00:09:47,541 --> 00:09:50,742 Speaker 1: say for the 10,000 amount they've been offering for minor injuries. 198 00:09:50,752 --> 00:09:52,891 Speaker 1: I'm not sure whether if you accept this, you're not 199 00:09:52,901 --> 00:09:54,521 Speaker 1: allowed to come back anymore. Is it in full and 200 00:09:54,530 --> 00:09:56,072 Speaker 1: final settlement of the entire thing? 201 00:09:56,409 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: The 25,000 has been referred to as an advance which 202 00:09:59,210 --> 00:10:01,869 Speaker 1: doesn't stop you from going to court if you later 203 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,909 Speaker 1: realize that you did suffer more than that. But if 204 00:10:04,919 --> 00:10:07,210 Speaker 1: it's the case that the 10,000 is in full and 205 00:10:07,219 --> 00:10:09,729 Speaker 1: final settlement, then it could be the case where SI 206 00:10:09,739 --> 00:10:12,070 Speaker 1: A is trying to, let's say reduce the pool of 207 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:13,750 Speaker 1: potential claimants that they would have to 208 00:10:13,844 --> 00:10:15,794 Speaker 1: deal with. Are they allowed to do that? Can they 209 00:10:15,804 --> 00:10:17,434 Speaker 1: say I'm going to give you X amount of money? 210 00:10:17,445 --> 00:10:20,125 Speaker 1: But in return, you have to agree to ABC and 211 00:10:20,135 --> 00:10:22,395 Speaker 1: it happens all the time in litigation and even you're 212 00:10:22,405 --> 00:10:25,445 Speaker 1: talking about minor injuries, you still have a full spectrum. 213 00:10:25,455 --> 00:10:28,005 Speaker 1: Some people may have just suffered bruises, let's say if 214 00:10:28,015 --> 00:10:31,135 Speaker 1: they were wearing a seatbelt, you get $10,000 for that. 215 00:10:31,479 --> 00:10:34,169 Speaker 1: You know, we probably will take it, but of course, 216 00:10:34,179 --> 00:10:37,189 Speaker 1: whoever's in doubt if you suffered something more serious than that. 217 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: And as I say, that's a minor injury or if 218 00:10:39,530 --> 00:10:42,500 Speaker 1: you want to take legal advice before agreeing to anything, 219 00:10:42,510 --> 00:10:44,710 Speaker 1: it will always come with some sort of document or 220 00:10:44,719 --> 00:10:46,820 Speaker 1: agreement to sign. And you should consult a lawyer to 221 00:10:46,830 --> 00:10:49,380 Speaker 1: look through those clauses if anyone's concerned about it, 222 00:10:49,570 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 2: just to add that even the strict portion, which is 223 00:10:52,890 --> 00:10:54,978 Speaker 2: a limit rather than something that's paid 224 00:10:55,145 --> 00:10:58,554 Speaker 2: automatically of the proof loss. Just remember that when you're 225 00:10:58,565 --> 00:11:02,655 Speaker 2: proving loss, that amount can be reduced due to contributory 226 00:11:02,664 --> 00:11:05,765 Speaker 2: actions that you took or didn't take on the plane. 227 00:11:05,775 --> 00:11:06,093 Speaker 2: For 228 00:11:06,104 --> 00:11:07,994 Speaker 1: example, if you did not wear your seat belt, 229 00:11:08,005 --> 00:11:08,044 Speaker 2: well, 230 00:11:08,054 --> 00:11:10,493 Speaker 2: if the sign came out and it sounded that the 231 00:11:10,505 --> 00:11:12,924 Speaker 2: seat belt side came up, but people didn't have much 232 00:11:12,934 --> 00:11:15,445 Speaker 2: time to react to it and you did not put 233 00:11:15,455 --> 00:11:17,455 Speaker 2: on your seat belt and other people did. And other 234 00:11:17,465 --> 00:11:20,184 Speaker 2: people didn't get injured that there's still a case to 235 00:11:20,195 --> 00:11:21,135 Speaker 2: be made that 236 00:11:21,479 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: the full amount of your loss may not be compensated. 237 00:11:25,010 --> 00:11:27,780 Speaker 2: So you do take a risk going into a claim 238 00:11:27,789 --> 00:11:29,919 Speaker 2: situation rather than taking money up front. 239 00:11:30,340 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 240 00:11:30,530 --> 00:11:33,940 Speaker 1: No, I wanted to ask about physical injuries. I can 241 00:11:33,950 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: understand it. And I think that's how airlines kind of 242 00:11:36,090 --> 00:11:38,969 Speaker 1: decide how much and how much to give out and 243 00:11:38,979 --> 00:11:39,340 Speaker 1: all that. 244 00:11:39,710 --> 00:11:42,659 Speaker 1: But what about mental trauma? Because, you know, when we 245 00:11:42,669 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: were reading some of the comments on social media, there 246 00:11:45,650 --> 00:11:48,900 Speaker 1: was a recent incident of a Qatar Airways plane that 247 00:11:48,909 --> 00:11:51,380 Speaker 1: was stuck on the tarmac for hours and hours and, 248 00:11:51,390 --> 00:11:54,059 Speaker 1: and it was in the heat wave and people were 249 00:11:54,070 --> 00:11:56,330 Speaker 1: feeling very distressed, et cetera and some of them were 250 00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:58,739 Speaker 1: saying that they weren't physically affected, but 251 00:11:59,119 --> 00:12:02,250 Speaker 1: you know, they were quite traumatized by the whole incident. 252 00:12:02,260 --> 00:12:04,978 Speaker 1: So that's a good option for me to claim. It's 253 00:12:04,989 --> 00:12:07,968 Speaker 1: never been easy to launch such a claim in the 254 00:12:07,979 --> 00:12:11,729 Speaker 1: Singapore courts. That's for one. And generally speaking, you do 255 00:12:11,739 --> 00:12:16,169 Speaker 1: need to show some sort of fairly serious psychiatric disorder 256 00:12:16,179 --> 00:12:18,700 Speaker 1: or harm that has arisen out of the incident, which 257 00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:22,650 Speaker 1: means going to actually see a psychiatrist and being assessed 258 00:12:23,099 --> 00:12:25,330 Speaker 1: and then having a report and then going through cross 259 00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: examination in court that that's challenged. So again, it's not 260 00:12:28,890 --> 00:12:31,669 Speaker 1: all that simple, which is why the current offers by 261 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,650 Speaker 1: si might make sense to some passengers, right? I think 262 00:12:34,659 --> 00:12:37,299 Speaker 1: we're saying sometimes you're stuck on the tarmac for whatever reason, 263 00:12:37,309 --> 00:12:41,070 Speaker 1: it may take two, sometimes three hours, four hours. And 264 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,070 Speaker 1: if the air conditioning isn't working, it's extremely uncomfortable. Is 265 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,590 Speaker 1: there any recourse for 266 00:12:46,695 --> 00:12:48,635 Speaker 1: passengers didn't say I'm not happy 267 00:12:48,645 --> 00:12:49,195 Speaker 1: with this. 268 00:12:49,205 --> 00:12:52,934 Speaker 2: Maybe I can just interject actually the Montreal convention and 269 00:12:52,945 --> 00:12:57,955 Speaker 2: the case law that has taken place excludes non physical injury. 270 00:12:58,044 --> 00:13:01,255 Speaker 2: So mental injury, there are cases and of course, it 271 00:13:01,265 --> 00:13:04,194 Speaker 2: depends on whether the court that you litigate in recognizes 272 00:13:04,205 --> 00:13:07,715 Speaker 2: those cases. But there are cases that confirm that mental 273 00:13:07,724 --> 00:13:11,794 Speaker 2: injury alone is insufficient. But if you have a physical 274 00:13:11,804 --> 00:13:12,395 Speaker 2: injury 275 00:13:12,909 --> 00:13:17,820 Speaker 2: that then manifests itself as a mental deficiency or injury afterwards, 276 00:13:17,830 --> 00:13:21,609 Speaker 2: then that it can be claimed under the Montreal Convention. 277 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,489 Speaker 2: So in a way indirectly you could but you still 278 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:26,369 Speaker 2: need to show a physical injury. 279 00:13:26,770 --> 00:13:29,189 Speaker 1: Yeah, basically find yourself a good lawyer who can help 280 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: you argue in that gray area and a good psychiatrist 281 00:13:33,409 --> 00:13:36,380 Speaker 1: who write you a note while the Montreal Convention, as 282 00:13:36,390 --> 00:13:38,630 Speaker 1: you mentioned, does protect us to some extent, it doesn't 283 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,530 Speaker 1: seem to really cover a lot of the day to 284 00:13:40,539 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: day issues that passengers may encounter delays last minute flight cancellation, 285 00:13:44,570 --> 00:13:47,349 Speaker 1: especially with the budget airlines, I mean lost baggage and 286 00:13:47,359 --> 00:13:49,419 Speaker 1: all that. I think we can look towards insurance to 287 00:13:49,429 --> 00:13:49,829 Speaker 1: claim 288 00:13:50,169 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: but things which often really disrupt your logistical travel. You know, 289 00:13:54,969 --> 00:14:00,020 Speaker 2: Montreal Convention is mostly death injury and damage to property. 290 00:14:00,030 --> 00:14:03,799 Speaker 2: It does cover damage to baggage. You have some compensation 291 00:14:03,809 --> 00:14:06,460 Speaker 2: under the Montreal Convention, then you look to your carriage 292 00:14:06,469 --> 00:14:10,030 Speaker 2: contract under the ticket and also the rules in the 293 00:14:10,039 --> 00:14:14,039 Speaker 2: location that you're flying and buy insurance. 294 00:14:16,289 --> 00:14:18,699 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, definitely. But I want to pick up that 295 00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:20,599 Speaker 1: you say and then it depends on the location you're 296 00:14:20,609 --> 00:14:23,219 Speaker 1: traveling to. So how does it work if I'm flying 297 00:14:23,369 --> 00:14:27,390 Speaker 1: out of Paris? But into Singapore, which law applies? Then 298 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:27,729 Speaker 2: very 299 00:14:27,739 --> 00:14:31,070 Speaker 2: good question. And people hire lawyers to figure that out. 300 00:14:32,820 --> 00:14:34,369 Speaker 1: We got you guys online. That's what 301 00:14:35,119 --> 00:14:38,750 Speaker 2: it sounds like a very easy question to answer. But 302 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,270 Speaker 2: just remember how many laws are involved. So the aircraft 303 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,429 Speaker 2: itself has a state of registration, the citizenship of the 304 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,429 Speaker 2: passenger is one where they flew out of is one 305 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,710 Speaker 2: where the land is another. And then the countries that 306 00:14:50,719 --> 00:14:53,770 Speaker 2: they fly over so very often it depends on what 307 00:14:53,780 --> 00:14:56,590 Speaker 2: is the injury. And when it happened, one thing that 308 00:14:56,599 --> 00:14:58,549 Speaker 2: people have been focusing on is 309 00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:01,539 Speaker 2: the passenger in the airline. But frankly, in a litigation 310 00:15:01,549 --> 00:15:04,979 Speaker 2: case where we've seen elsewhere where there's death and damage, 311 00:15:05,140 --> 00:15:08,580 Speaker 2: the injured families will try to take action against everybody 312 00:15:08,590 --> 00:15:12,539 Speaker 2: around it, including the manufacturers. You would have noticed that 313 00:15:12,549 --> 00:15:17,099 Speaker 2: Boeing was straight in there to investigate the case because 314 00:15:17,109 --> 00:15:21,530 Speaker 2: it's their incentivized to protect themselves. It's always deep pockets. 315 00:15:21,539 --> 00:15:24,580 Speaker 2: You look around for who can compensate you 316 00:15:25,020 --> 00:15:26,890 Speaker 2: and then you look for the cause of 317 00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: action. 318 00:15:27,289 --> 00:15:30,260 Speaker 1: Is it possible for the aviation companies, the industry in 319 00:15:30,270 --> 00:15:34,020 Speaker 1: a way, the airline, the manufacturer to come together and 320 00:15:34,030 --> 00:15:37,179 Speaker 1: share the burden, share the load. No, everybody's out for 321 00:15:37,190 --> 00:15:41,190 Speaker 1: himself to try and limit damages, right? That's the whole 322 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: point because if they volunteer, there's nothing to stop them. 323 00:15:43,789 --> 00:15:46,799 Speaker 1: But ultimately, it's a question of who can be proved 324 00:15:46,809 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: to be at fault. For example, if si was sued 325 00:15:49,849 --> 00:15:52,679 Speaker 1: or an airline was sued in a particular incident, 326 00:15:53,169 --> 00:15:56,719 Speaker 1: they have the option of bringing in the manufacturer as 327 00:15:56,729 --> 00:15:59,219 Speaker 1: a third party to contribute to anything that they may 328 00:15:59,229 --> 00:16:02,530 Speaker 1: be ordered to pay. That's a possibility. Let's talk about 329 00:16:02,539 --> 00:16:05,219 Speaker 1: taking an airline to court. What does that entail? One 330 00:16:05,229 --> 00:16:07,969 Speaker 1: interesting thing. And we were talking about this before we 331 00:16:07,979 --> 00:16:11,780 Speaker 1: started was SQ 006. Si crashes are few and far 332 00:16:11,789 --> 00:16:15,409 Speaker 1: between the touch wood. SQ 006, the one in Taiwan 333 00:16:15,419 --> 00:16:17,469 Speaker 1: was quite bad. 83 people died. 334 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,770 Speaker 1: Sia's offer to the next of kin of those who 335 00:16:20,780 --> 00:16:26,820 Speaker 1: died was US $400,000. But in the end, 40 lawsuits 336 00:16:26,830 --> 00:16:30,469 Speaker 1: were filed in Singapore, more than 60 in the US. 337 00:16:30,479 --> 00:16:34,380 Speaker 1: And you're talking about different jurisdictions, right? In the end, 338 00:16:34,409 --> 00:16:38,820 Speaker 1: they settled out of court. That's another dimension to this, right? 339 00:16:38,830 --> 00:16:41,859 Speaker 1: I don't take the 400 K, I tell you, I'm 340 00:16:41,869 --> 00:16:43,940 Speaker 1: gonna sue you and then I settle out of court. 341 00:16:44,299 --> 00:16:48,159 Speaker 1: So all the settlements would have come with a confidentiality 342 00:16:48,169 --> 00:16:52,419 Speaker 1: clause which is why none of us would know what 343 00:16:52,429 --> 00:16:55,130 Speaker 1: amounts were actually paid out because none of the parties 344 00:16:55,140 --> 00:16:57,010 Speaker 1: are allowed to speak about it. Otherwise they'd have to 345 00:16:57,020 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: pay it back to S A, 346 00:16:58,580 --> 00:17:01,349 Speaker 1: a reason for this would be that for SI A, 347 00:17:01,359 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: it protects them from future speculative litigation, let's say, from 348 00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:08,438 Speaker 1: plaintiffs who are looking for a windfall. When you go 349 00:17:08,449 --> 00:17:10,839 Speaker 1: back to the question of jurisdiction, you notice that there 350 00:17:10,849 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: were lawsuits being filed in Singapore, there were lawsuits being 351 00:17:13,569 --> 00:17:16,579 Speaker 1: filed in the US. Now, when we as lawyers advise 352 00:17:16,589 --> 00:17:19,790 Speaker 1: litigants on where to file the lawsuits, there are strategic 353 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: considerations as well and there are factors which the court 354 00:17:23,078 --> 00:17:26,499 Speaker 1: consider and whether or not to take jurisdiction. So sometimes 355 00:17:26,509 --> 00:17:29,898 Speaker 1: the same case may be found in competing jurisdictions. The 356 00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:32,218 Speaker 1: plaintiff may file a claim in one jurisdiction and the 357 00:17:32,229 --> 00:17:35,538 Speaker 1: defendant may file in another. And that's because the laws 358 00:17:35,548 --> 00:17:39,509 Speaker 1: of the various jurisdictions may favor either plaintiff or defendant 359 00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:42,318 Speaker 1: in any particular case. But the question of which court 360 00:17:42,328 --> 00:17:45,019 Speaker 1: will eventually take jurisdiction is a complex one because the 361 00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:47,458 Speaker 1: courts look at a whole basket of factors. 362 00:17:47,829 --> 00:17:50,069 Speaker 1: So then when you come back to the question of settlement, 363 00:17:50,079 --> 00:17:52,239 Speaker 1: it may also be the case that the passengers who 364 00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:55,910 Speaker 1: sued in the US and passengers who sued in Singapore 365 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,859 Speaker 1: for all we know they may be getting very different 366 00:17:57,869 --> 00:17:58,669 Speaker 1: amounts as well. 367 00:17:59,849 --> 00:18:02,109 Speaker 1: Yeah, you were saying the rules of how it works 368 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,458 Speaker 1: in the US is a bit different, right? Yes. So, 369 00:18:04,469 --> 00:18:07,589 Speaker 1: I mean, in terms of substantive personal injury law, for example, 370 00:18:07,599 --> 00:18:10,030 Speaker 1: there may be some kinds of heads of claim that 371 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,579 Speaker 1: the Singapore courts don't award as much as they would 372 00:18:13,589 --> 00:18:16,339 Speaker 1: in the US and vice versa. So depending on what 373 00:18:16,349 --> 00:18:18,339 Speaker 1: type of injury you suffer. You know, it may be 374 00:18:18,349 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: more advantageous to go to whichever jurisdiction. So it really 375 00:18:21,689 --> 00:18:23,239 Speaker 1: sounds like what you should do is first get a 376 00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:26,469 Speaker 1: good lawyer to help figure out what is your best 377 00:18:26,479 --> 00:18:27,219 Speaker 1: strategy 378 00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:29,369 Speaker 1: move forward. That's right. And in fact, you might even 379 00:18:29,380 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: need to speak to a lawyer in more than one 380 00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:34,150 Speaker 1: jurisdiction as a Singapore lawyer. I can say what Singapore 381 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,569 Speaker 1: personal injury law is. You might at the same time 382 00:18:36,579 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: need to ask UK lawyer Australian lawyer, us lawyer, what 383 00:18:40,650 --> 00:18:43,390 Speaker 1: the position in their jurisdiction is. So, I guess for 384 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,329 Speaker 1: the average person you're also thinking at the end of 385 00:18:45,339 --> 00:18:47,699 Speaker 1: the day, is it really worth it to go through 386 00:18:47,709 --> 00:18:49,729 Speaker 1: all this effort? One of it is, yeah, I, I 387 00:18:49,739 --> 00:18:52,099 Speaker 1: maybe you've offered me a settlement, maybe you haven't, but 388 00:18:52,109 --> 00:18:54,609 Speaker 1: for me to engage lawyers in different jurisdictions to 389 00:18:54,689 --> 00:18:57,619 Speaker 1: then fight it over a prolonged period of time against 390 00:18:57,630 --> 00:19:00,609 Speaker 1: a huge MNC I'm thinking, is it really worth it? 391 00:19:00,619 --> 00:19:03,750 Speaker 1: And I guess it depends on how severe your injury 392 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,329 Speaker 1: or accident may have been. Right, Paul, what would you 393 00:19:06,339 --> 00:19:09,540 Speaker 1: tell people who in this situation, should I wait to 394 00:19:09,550 --> 00:19:12,589 Speaker 1: then ask for more? What approach should they take 395 00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:16,989 Speaker 2: any form of litigation can be long and costly? If 396 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 2: you are relying on the judge to make a decision, 397 00:19:19,449 --> 00:19:22,020 Speaker 2: there's some uncertainty so you could have a law 398 00:19:22,219 --> 00:19:25,349 Speaker 2: and costly litigation and then not get the result you 399 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:30,050 Speaker 2: want because legal system is adversary a win lose situation. Now, 400 00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:33,530 Speaker 2: there's some historical basis to why there are these international 401 00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:37,270 Speaker 2: conventions which is actually to protect the resilience of the 402 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: aviation industry. You don't want airlines to not be airlines 403 00:19:41,130 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: just because they could be sued by people who get 404 00:19:43,770 --> 00:19:46,619 Speaker 2: injured and there is some risk in flying. Although obviously 405 00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:49,409 Speaker 2: we are told it's safer than driving on the road. 406 00:19:50,270 --> 00:19:52,609 Speaker 2: I think one thing that people don't talk about very 407 00:19:52,619 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: much is that, as we said before the Montreal Convention, 408 00:19:55,530 --> 00:19:58,969 Speaker 2: there is a strict liability portion, but there's also an 409 00:19:58,979 --> 00:20:04,169 Speaker 2: exclusivity provision in the article 21 which actually protects the 410 00:20:04,180 --> 00:20:07,310 Speaker 2: airline if they are able to show that they weren't 411 00:20:07,319 --> 00:20:09,709 Speaker 2: the ones at fault. I mean, there are some technical 412 00:20:09,719 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 2: terms but essentially they weren't the ones at fault 413 00:20:13,579 --> 00:20:16,859 Speaker 2: or it's a third party that caused the injury. So 414 00:20:16,869 --> 00:20:19,938 Speaker 2: after they pay out the strict liability portion, if they 415 00:20:19,949 --> 00:20:25,020 Speaker 2: can prove that technically, for Montreal countries, you cannot then 416 00:20:25,030 --> 00:20:28,459 Speaker 2: take a separate action, say you find some cause of action, 417 00:20:28,469 --> 00:20:32,719 Speaker 2: bring it against the airline and claim for more than 418 00:20:32,729 --> 00:20:33,290 Speaker 2: the strict 419 00:20:33,816 --> 00:20:37,196 Speaker 2: person. This is if the airline is able to show 420 00:20:37,205 --> 00:20:39,005 Speaker 2: that they are not at fault and this people don't 421 00:20:39,015 --> 00:20:41,375 Speaker 2: talk about very much. But frankly, there have been cases 422 00:20:41,385 --> 00:20:44,015 Speaker 2: in the UK and in the US which affirm the 423 00:20:44,026 --> 00:20:48,666 Speaker 2: exclusivity of the Montreal Convention to protect airlines. Now, having 424 00:20:48,676 --> 00:20:51,566 Speaker 2: said that I've been interviewed before by CN on the 425 00:20:51,576 --> 00:20:53,635 Speaker 2: Malaysian Airlines, loss of aircraft 426 00:20:53,891 --> 00:20:58,401 Speaker 2: and the suits they are brought by the Chinese in China. Obviously, 427 00:20:58,631 --> 00:21:01,381 Speaker 2: they could still bring a case in China and a 428 00:21:01,391 --> 00:21:05,141 Speaker 2: judge that is not well versed in international treaties or 429 00:21:05,151 --> 00:21:09,281 Speaker 2: not well advised could make a different decision even for 430 00:21:09,291 --> 00:21:12,151 Speaker 2: something clear is that there is still a chance that 431 00:21:12,161 --> 00:21:13,751 Speaker 2: if you litigate you could win. 432 00:21:14,150 --> 00:21:17,910 Speaker 2: But as I said, long, costly and unpredictable and 433 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:18,030 Speaker 1: you 434 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,229 Speaker 1: could lose. Basically, that's the bottom line, right. Yeah, we 435 00:21:21,239 --> 00:21:22,869 Speaker 1: know lawyers are not cheap. So you end up paying 436 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: more than what you actually even got. So at the 437 00:21:26,930 --> 00:21:29,419 Speaker 1: end of the day, there's so many other considerations that 438 00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:32,050 Speaker 1: have to be taken into account. But we have to 439 00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:34,489 Speaker 1: ask you, is there a concern that this may also 440 00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:37,170 Speaker 1: result in one day higher fares for all of us? 441 00:21:37,180 --> 00:21:38,859 Speaker 1: Because airlines are then going to say, well, I gotta 442 00:21:38,869 --> 00:21:40,859 Speaker 1: buy more insurance. You got to take more protection. 443 00:21:41,130 --> 00:21:43,229 Speaker 1: I'm going to factor in more risks. Will this then 444 00:21:43,239 --> 00:21:46,410 Speaker 1: trickle down to the ticket prices? We see, is there 445 00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:49,219 Speaker 1: a concern there too? If it really is the case 446 00:21:49,229 --> 00:21:53,229 Speaker 1: that we are going to see more instances of unpredictable 447 00:21:53,239 --> 00:21:57,609 Speaker 1: turbulence affecting aircraft, then yes, it's going to be quite 448 00:21:57,619 --> 00:22:00,890 Speaker 1: inevitable because if you look at the Montreal Convention, you 449 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:03,369 Speaker 1: know that airlines are going to be liable for a 450 00:22:03,380 --> 00:22:05,550 Speaker 1: certain amount if we are going to see more of 451 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,149 Speaker 1: these incidents. And I don't see costs not rising for passengers, 452 00:22:09,444 --> 00:22:12,234 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to turbulence, right? Because a lot 453 00:22:12,244 --> 00:22:15,275 Speaker 1: of reports are saying that climate change is something airlines 454 00:22:15,285 --> 00:22:19,074 Speaker 1: can't control, right? Aircraft flying into an air pocket. And 455 00:22:19,175 --> 00:22:21,004 Speaker 1: just in the last few days, we've heard of a 456 00:22:21,015 --> 00:22:23,474 Speaker 1: few other airlines who have hit turbulence as well while 457 00:22:23,484 --> 00:22:26,614 Speaker 1: travel is a nice luxury to many, it's essential for some. 458 00:22:26,625 --> 00:22:28,925 Speaker 1: How would you guys sort of advise people who are 459 00:22:28,935 --> 00:22:31,974 Speaker 1: now looking at the situation? Thinking, well, how should I 460 00:22:31,984 --> 00:22:35,275 Speaker 1: approach this as a passenger? My next flight, what should 461 00:22:35,285 --> 00:22:37,224 Speaker 1: I be looking to do, Paul and go first. 462 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,209 Speaker 2: I just flew to New York on SQ and any turbulence, 463 00:22:41,219 --> 00:22:45,449 Speaker 2: everybody had their seat belt on the stewardesses were seated, 464 00:22:45,739 --> 00:22:49,770 Speaker 2: no food or drink. So choose an airline that has 465 00:22:49,780 --> 00:22:52,310 Speaker 2: a good safety record. Singapore Airlines until now had a 466 00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:55,420 Speaker 2: fantastic day. That's the first. Secondly, I think 467 00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:57,890 Speaker 2: you do need to buy insurance and on the point 468 00:22:57,900 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 2: about ticket prices going up, it will go up because 469 00:23:00,579 --> 00:23:03,579 Speaker 2: the cost of insurance will go up if insurers have 470 00:23:03,589 --> 00:23:09,619 Speaker 2: to cover the airlines for compensating the passengers for their injury, 471 00:23:09,630 --> 00:23:12,329 Speaker 2: death or damage and they will have to because you 472 00:23:12,339 --> 00:23:13,339 Speaker 2: cannot fly 473 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,819 Speaker 2: an aircraft without third party liability insurance. So insurance will 474 00:23:17,829 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 2: go up means costs will go up, buy insurance for 475 00:23:20,410 --> 00:23:22,310 Speaker 2: yourself and choose a good airline. 476 00:23:22,349 --> 00:23:22,708 Speaker 1: One 477 00:23:22,719 --> 00:23:25,739 Speaker 1: good thing that has come out of all this is awareness, 478 00:23:25,939 --> 00:23:28,619 Speaker 1: as we always say, prevention is better than cure for 479 00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:30,150 Speaker 1: me as well. I came up to Bangkok on a 480 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,290 Speaker 1: scoot flight and same as Paul. You know, the moment 481 00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:36,129 Speaker 1: the seatbelt sign comes on, everybody is seated, all the 482 00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:38,939 Speaker 1: food disappears. Nobody dares to go to the toilet 483 00:23:39,232 --> 00:23:41,552 Speaker 1: in the past. Some people used to not be so 484 00:23:41,561 --> 00:23:44,362 Speaker 1: concerned about keeping your seatbelt on even after the sign 485 00:23:44,371 --> 00:23:46,911 Speaker 1: goes off. Now I notice even after the sign goes off, 486 00:23:46,921 --> 00:23:49,052 Speaker 1: most of us still keep the seatbelt on. That was 487 00:23:49,061 --> 00:23:53,112 Speaker 1: the interesting cultural shift, right for us because we're so 488 00:23:53,121 --> 00:23:55,232 Speaker 1: scared by all the images that we saw all the 489 00:23:55,241 --> 00:23:58,562 Speaker 1: blood and all the injuries. It was quite terrible actually. Yeah, 490 00:23:58,571 --> 00:24:01,102 Speaker 1: that will change the way we travel. I guess my 491 00:24:01,112 --> 00:24:03,511 Speaker 1: next holiday will be a drive to Malaysia. Oh wait, 492 00:24:03,521 --> 00:24:04,612 Speaker 1: that's dangerous. I think, I think 493 00:24:04,663 --> 00:24:07,784 Speaker 1: ferry to but maybe that is another option. I think 494 00:24:07,792 --> 00:24:12,234 Speaker 1: statistic despite all that has happened, airline travel is still 495 00:24:12,244 --> 00:24:15,693 Speaker 1: the safest travel mode amongst everything else. At least 496 00:24:15,703 --> 00:24:16,162 Speaker 1: for now. 497 00:24:16,423 --> 00:24:19,203 Speaker 2: I don't think air travel will reduce. It's just that 498 00:24:19,213 --> 00:24:22,364 Speaker 2: people on planes will be a little bit more careful 499 00:24:22,374 --> 00:24:24,363 Speaker 2: and he the seat belt sign, 500 00:24:24,484 --> 00:24:24,812 Speaker 1: which 501 00:24:24,823 --> 00:24:26,953 Speaker 1: is a good thing overall because it so happens. I'm 502 00:24:26,963 --> 00:24:28,904 Speaker 1: working on the talking point episode now about people who 503 00:24:28,913 --> 00:24:30,043 Speaker 1: were not wearing seat belts, but 504 00:24:30,156 --> 00:24:30,855 Speaker 1: the car 505 00:24:31,916 --> 00:24:34,296 Speaker 2: when you make that claim, the airline won't be able 506 00:24:34,306 --> 00:24:37,926 Speaker 2: to say contributory negligence, you didn't put on your seatbelt. 507 00:24:37,936 --> 00:24:39,066 Speaker 2: So there's a money to 508 00:24:39,336 --> 00:24:42,125 Speaker 1: this one is full negligence. It's true. We don't have 509 00:24:42,135 --> 00:24:44,855 Speaker 1: a habit of wearing a seatbelt, especially for a back seat, drivers. Right. 510 00:24:44,865 --> 00:24:47,215 Speaker 1: Exactly in the rear seat. But did you know that 511 00:24:47,225 --> 00:24:49,815 Speaker 1: actually by law it is mandatory? Oh, my God. We 512 00:24:49,826 --> 00:24:52,515 Speaker 1: built it up in all seats in the car, breaking 513 00:24:52,526 --> 00:24:55,536 Speaker 1: the law. I know guys. Thanks so much for 514 00:24:55,647 --> 00:24:57,427 Speaker 1: dialing in and sharing your thoughts with us. I think 515 00:24:57,436 --> 00:24:58,858 Speaker 1: this is one thing we just wanted to shed a 516 00:24:58,868 --> 00:25:00,588 Speaker 1: bit more light on the issue for all of us. 517 00:25:00,637 --> 00:25:02,707 Speaker 1: And yeah, if you're listening in, you have thoughts on this. So, 518 00:25:02,718 --> 00:25:04,737 Speaker 1: you know, next time you travel, what are you doing? 519 00:25:04,748 --> 00:25:06,848 Speaker 1: More of, less of drop us a note. Let us 520 00:25:06,858 --> 00:25:09,147 Speaker 1: know we would love to have a feedback from you 521 00:25:09,157 --> 00:25:12,027 Speaker 1: as well. Thank you to both the gentlemen here and 522 00:25:12,037 --> 00:25:15,417 Speaker 1: thanks to the team behind the podcast, Tiffanie Ang Jaini, Johari, 523 00:25:15,427 --> 00:25:20,147 Speaker 1: Joan Chansa Ween and sound mixing by Ken Delbridge. Thank you. Goodbye. 524 00:25:20,157 --> 00:25:20,817 Speaker 1: Bye for now.