1 00:00:00,150 --> 00:00:01,890 S1: I'd say, though, it's a zero 2 00:00:02,009 --> 00:00:02,820 S2: and it's germane, 3 00:00:02,830 --> 00:00:05,130 S3: and welcome back to another episode of Clarity. 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,900 S2: Oh, we are back on the set, but we are 5 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:13,410 S2: very sad today because our dear Haiti is in a screen. 6 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,070 S1: I am devastated that usually she's on my right, but 7 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:17,390 S1: I can live on my right. 8 00:00:17,670 --> 00:00:20,760 S3: Well, you know what I mean? It's tough times. I 9 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:22,710 S3: think we're doing all that we can to keep each 10 00:00:22,710 --> 00:00:25,830 S3: other safe. And eventually this won't be for long, but 11 00:00:25,980 --> 00:00:28,780 S3: I'm saving them healthy. You so don't need to worry. 12 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,260 S2: That's right. That's the most important thing now today. We're 13 00:00:31,260 --> 00:00:34,410 S2: going to be talking about something that we publicly dressed 14 00:00:34,409 --> 00:00:34,850 S2: up for. 15 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:40,030 S1: You see his you show us your shirt, baby girl girl. 16 00:00:40,500 --> 00:00:42,000 S2: We're talking about your name. 17 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,520 S1: Let me tell you, let me buy you a drink. Okay, 18 00:00:45,530 --> 00:00:46,860 S1: people calm down. 19 00:00:47,370 --> 00:00:50,790 S2: But today we're talking about babies and more specifically, something 20 00:00:50,790 --> 00:00:54,360 S2: called social egg freezing. And this episode is a lot 21 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,070 S2: more than just that. We're also going to talk about 22 00:00:56,070 --> 00:00:59,340 S2: the notion of having a biological clock. So very briefly 23 00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:02,190 S2: to the floor, yes or no? Are you concerned about 24 00:01:02,190 --> 00:01:05,310 S2: having a ticking biological clock hazy? What do you think? 25 00:01:05,490 --> 00:01:07,650 S3: Yes, of course. You know, it used to be my 26 00:01:07,650 --> 00:01:11,520 S3: dream to be merit-based like twenty eight by twenty eight 27 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,030 S3: twenty nine ish, but it clearly isn't happening. And although 28 00:01:15,030 --> 00:01:16,500 S3: I knew that it was me, 29 00:01:16,650 --> 00:01:19,470 S2: exactly, I actually had the same thought as well. Like 30 00:01:19,470 --> 00:01:22,680 S2: in my notes here, I wrote kids by twenty six, 31 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,290 S2: but I am 26 this year, so it's definitely not 32 00:01:25,290 --> 00:01:27,510 S2: going to know it's not happening. I am lowering 33 00:01:27,510 --> 00:01:28,440 S1: all my finger, but 34 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,340 S2: I'm concerned because I always hear the notion that younger 35 00:01:32,340 --> 00:01:34,619 S2: is better to have kids. All my friends that have kids. 36 00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:37,529 S2: They told me LIBOR when you're younger, is smoother with 37 00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:40,450 S2: less complication, so I would say yes, but we'll get 38 00:01:40,450 --> 00:01:42,300 S2: into it a bit more later. What about you? 39 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,580 S1: Um, yes and no. Yeah, I think I'm a bit 40 00:01:47,590 --> 00:01:50,580 S1: less concerned, to be honest, because I'm a bit more like, 41 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:54,780 S1: you know, it happens, a happens, can can on, you know, like. 42 00:01:54,930 --> 00:01:58,440 S1: But I think it's pressure from people as well telling you, like, Oh, 43 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,200 S1: you should try and have your first kid before 30. 44 00:02:01,410 --> 00:02:05,220 S1: The body is different after 30. So that kind of things, 45 00:02:05,220 --> 00:02:07,260 S1: I think it scares me a little bit. 46 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:09,780 S2: I see. I see. OK, let's set the stage here, right? 47 00:02:10,110 --> 00:02:12,030 S2: For those that don't know, actually, I learn a lot 48 00:02:12,180 --> 00:02:14,640 S2: reading the notes for today's session. A woman is actually 49 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,359 S2: born with a finite number of eggs. OK. OK, so 50 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:23,600 S2: it continuously depletes over time, and we're actually most fertile now. 51 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,730 S2: And in our early 30s, late 20s, early 30s, right 52 00:02:26,970 --> 00:02:31,290 S2: after which the quality of your egg actually decreases and 53 00:02:31,290 --> 00:02:33,720 S2: the possibility of having children, it does get a bit harder, 54 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,910 S2: a bit more complicated as well. But I don't think 55 00:02:35,910 --> 00:02:38,429 S2: it has to be this way. So today on her podcast, 56 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,030 S2: let's talk about fertility, social egg freezing and how this 57 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,529 S2: actually affects our family, our life and our career. Mm hmm. 58 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,960 S2: Mm hmm. OK, first up, why are we concerned or 59 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,040 S2: not concerned for basura you know about our ticking biological clock? 60 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,790 S3: Oh, you know what? I used to have some friends. 61 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,040 S3: They're a bit older than me, and they try to 62 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,430 S3: conceive at the age of C, maybe thirty seven, thirty eight. 63 00:03:02,430 --> 00:03:04,739 S3: And they had such a hot time. And looking at them, 64 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:07,410 S3: I feel that I don't want to go through that, 65 00:03:07,419 --> 00:03:09,269 S3: you know what I mean? As much as I respect 66 00:03:09,270 --> 00:03:12,300 S3: them for for training so hot and you know, the 67 00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:14,160 S3: more they want to have the kit, the more they 68 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,649 S3: stress themselves out and the more they are not able 69 00:03:16,650 --> 00:03:19,710 S3: to conceive. And this is a cycle, and then they 70 00:03:19,710 --> 00:03:22,980 S3: get even more out. So there are many, many problems 71 00:03:22,980 --> 00:03:26,040 S3: that come with giving birth above the age of 35. 72 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,040 S3: I think there are many veteran actresses in the industry 73 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,400 S3: as well who only gave birth after thirty five, and 74 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,740 S3: we have heard them talk about their stories. I think 75 00:03:34,740 --> 00:03:38,160 S3: we funghi is one of them. Holy bunch. She has 76 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,280 S3: many times talked about how difficult it is to conceive 77 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,030 S3: after the age of 35. And I think this is 78 00:03:45,030 --> 00:03:47,310 S3: worrying for me because right now I don't even have 79 00:03:47,310 --> 00:03:49,530 S3: a partner. And after I find a partner of to 80 00:03:49,530 --> 00:03:51,880 S3: date for like a few years, get married and maybe, 81 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,790 S3: you know, spend some time together, just the both of 82 00:03:53,790 --> 00:03:58,050 S3: us before we travel kit and Biden, how would I 83 00:03:58,050 --> 00:04:00,510 S3: be even after my first? Would I still be able 84 00:04:00,510 --> 00:04:03,270 S3: to conceive my second one? Like, how or would I 85 00:04:03,270 --> 00:04:06,120 S3: be this way? I think this is a huge concern 86 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,150 S3: to all women, especially people in our industry. 87 00:04:09,630 --> 00:04:11,070 S1: But you have a long 88 00:04:11,070 --> 00:04:13,140 S2: line of suitors. As we always say. I know you're 89 00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:15,210 S2: waiting for Tom Holland. I know. 90 00:04:15,210 --> 00:04:18,060 S1: But but you think you can find he's a Tesla, 91 00:04:18,330 --> 00:04:22,460 S1: maybe who don't a. Come on, I wish. 92 00:04:22,980 --> 00:04:25,409 S3: No problem. I speak to my ex and I wait. 93 00:04:26,700 --> 00:04:29,159 S2: There we go. But I actually agree with the same 94 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,750 S2: thing where she was saying, You know, a lot of 95 00:04:31,020 --> 00:04:32,460 S2: actors have come up, a lot of people in the 96 00:04:32,460 --> 00:04:36,510 S2: public eye. They actually have kids much later than how 97 00:04:36,510 --> 00:04:39,390 S2: you traditionally would. But I feel like that normalizes it 98 00:04:39,390 --> 00:04:41,730 S2: for me as well. Correct. I see them having kids. 99 00:04:41,730 --> 00:04:42,960 S2: They then I think actually, 100 00:04:43,230 --> 00:04:45,750 S1: what's so wrong about that? Correct? Because I think when 101 00:04:45,750 --> 00:04:48,359 S1: I was younger, I used to think like, Oh, you 102 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,849 S1: got to have kids before, like 35, that kind of thing. 103 00:04:51,060 --> 00:04:53,970 S1: And then now you see people around you having kids 104 00:04:53,970 --> 00:04:56,910 S1: at like, thirty seven, thirty eight, and you're like, Oh, 105 00:04:56,910 --> 00:05:00,469 S1: then you start thinking, Oh, it's possible. But I think 106 00:05:00,470 --> 00:05:04,170 S1: sometimes it makes you forget that, you know, it's more risky. 107 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,580 S1: It's harder as well. So I think we've got a 108 00:05:07,580 --> 00:05:08,479 S1: lot to unpack today. 109 00:05:08,510 --> 00:05:11,419 S2: Yeah, my own mom actually had me when she was 110 00:05:11,420 --> 00:05:13,820 S2: in her 30s. So I think because of that, I 111 00:05:13,820 --> 00:05:15,979 S2: didn't feel like the pressure or in my 20s. I 112 00:05:15,980 --> 00:05:17,690 S2: have to. It's more of this. What I want it 113 00:05:17,690 --> 00:05:20,089 S2: for my future. It's not happening. Let's let it go. 114 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:22,400 S1: Let it go. 115 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,270 S2: So what about you? Zero in terms of whether you've 116 00:05:26,270 --> 00:05:29,239 S2: considered having children before the age of 30? I mean, 117 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:29,839 S2: you're married. 118 00:05:29,990 --> 00:05:36,219 S1: What do you think? So I'm married. You know, I 119 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,690 S1: got married twenty five. So that would have left me 120 00:05:39,810 --> 00:05:42,750 S1: plenty of time by right? Right. I mean, I guess 121 00:05:42,750 --> 00:05:44,640 S1: I don't know if people expected me to have kids 122 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,560 S1: quite immediately or anything like that, but it ain't happening. 123 00:05:47,970 --> 00:05:51,000 S1: And and initially, honestly, at that point, I thought, OK, 124 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,320 S1: maybe two years, two years. Now I'm going, OK, maybe 125 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,549 S1: another two? Yeah. But I think it's a concern as well, 126 00:05:59,550 --> 00:06:02,609 S1: because let's see, I won the option of having more 127 00:06:02,610 --> 00:06:05,490 S1: than one. Yeah. And if, let's say I won three 128 00:06:05,670 --> 00:06:07,500 S1: and I don't want to have that in succession, right? 129 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:09,630 S1: So I would want to space it out maybe two 130 00:06:09,630 --> 00:06:12,870 S1: or three years. That means it's nine years or anything 131 00:06:12,870 --> 00:06:16,049 S1: for three. And if I let's say now, I'm not 132 00:06:16,050 --> 00:06:19,360 S1: ready and I started thirty, I'll be thirty nine. Yeah, 133 00:06:19,380 --> 00:06:21,450 S1: when I'm trying to have my last kit, will I 134 00:06:21,450 --> 00:06:23,850 S1: still be able to at that point? I don't know. 135 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,630 S1: So it feels like, well, if I want to walk away, right? 136 00:06:27,630 --> 00:06:29,669 S1: And then means I have to start now, but I'm 137 00:06:29,670 --> 00:06:30,600 S1: not ready yet. 138 00:06:31,410 --> 00:06:33,270 S2: That's the reality for a lot of people. And I 139 00:06:33,270 --> 00:06:36,060 S2: think that with, you know, more technology coming in to 140 00:06:36,060 --> 00:06:39,030 S2: help us, we might not have to feel this pressure. 141 00:06:39,029 --> 00:06:42,780 S2: But let's unpack this pressure first and foremost, right? Where 142 00:06:42,779 --> 00:06:44,460 S2: do you guys think this comes from? Easy. What do 143 00:06:44,460 --> 00:06:44,789 S2: you think? 144 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,080 S3: Maybe being in Asia, being a country like Singapore, maybe 145 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,810 S3: if you have traditional parents, you know, they would always 146 00:06:51,810 --> 00:06:54,630 S3: want us to give birth because they think it's easier 147 00:06:54,630 --> 00:06:56,970 S3: for us. And, you know, while they are fit and healthy, 148 00:06:56,970 --> 00:06:58,500 S3: they can help us to take care of our kids. 149 00:06:58,830 --> 00:07:01,380 S3: So I think this is where the pressure is coming from, 150 00:07:02,100 --> 00:07:05,430 S3: from society. On my end, though, I think not so much, 151 00:07:05,610 --> 00:07:09,090 S3: not as high as the pressure coming from the family. 152 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:09,990 S3: What do you guys think? 153 00:07:10,110 --> 00:07:12,780 S2: Well, I think our producer actually put in a really 154 00:07:12,780 --> 00:07:16,590 S2: good note that this really stems from how a woman's 155 00:07:16,590 --> 00:07:20,790 S2: self-worth is tech through her marital status. And it's traditionally been, 156 00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:23,580 S2: you know, a patriarchal society where if you are not married, 157 00:07:23,580 --> 00:07:25,240 S2: that you're worthless, that's what people used to see when 158 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,290 S2: they're young. In the past, I guess, and it's more 159 00:07:28,290 --> 00:07:32,170 S2: of a social conditioning that we feel this pressure. Yeah, right? 160 00:07:32,190 --> 00:07:35,280 S2: But is it really something that we have to face 161 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:36,300 S2: in our lifetime? 162 00:07:36,540 --> 00:07:39,660 S1: For me, I feel like because my mom let me 163 00:07:39,660 --> 00:07:41,400 S1: stay later as well, she gave up to me when 164 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,020 S1: she was thirty three. So growing up, everybody's mothers were 165 00:07:46,020 --> 00:07:51,390 S1: younger than mine are and people with and because my 166 00:07:51,390 --> 00:07:53,940 S1: friends were a lot older, right? So my older friends 167 00:07:53,940 --> 00:07:56,670 S1: had moms around the same age as mine. And so 168 00:07:56,670 --> 00:07:59,730 S1: I always thought, Oh, OK, so she had me a 169 00:07:59,730 --> 00:08:03,780 S1: bit later. But you know, maybe the norm is that 170 00:08:04,170 --> 00:08:07,890 S1: you have a bit earlier. So I grew up thinking, Oh, 171 00:08:07,890 --> 00:08:10,580 S1: maybe I should have had my kids a bit earlier, 172 00:08:10,590 --> 00:08:13,290 S1: then I have more time, that kind of thing. But 173 00:08:13,290 --> 00:08:18,240 S1: right now, I'm at a place where she's like, OK, 174 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,540 S2: but then you talked about how other people would view 175 00:08:21,540 --> 00:08:24,270 S2: that decision as well or like like relatives and stuff 176 00:08:24,270 --> 00:08:27,600 S2: like that, how society would judge you. I think that 177 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,700 S2: when it comes to freezing of eggs, right, a lot 178 00:08:29,700 --> 00:08:31,770 S2: of people think, Oh, if a woman wants to freeze 179 00:08:31,770 --> 00:08:34,410 S2: her eggs, she wants to focus on her career. But 180 00:08:34,410 --> 00:08:36,869 S2: there are so many reasons why you would want to 181 00:08:36,870 --> 00:08:38,580 S2: freeze your eggs. And it's not just that 182 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,309 S1: it her eggs let her do what she wants with them. 183 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,459 S1: I mean, you can choose your eggs like scrambled Sydneysider. 184 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,430 S1: You have that choice. We could have that choice, you know? 185 00:08:50,429 --> 00:08:53,400 S2: But then actually, I read a study online. It is 186 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,699 S2: very similar to Hazel's reason for why she thinks that, 187 00:08:56,970 --> 00:08:59,310 S2: you know, she might have kids later in life. It's 188 00:08:59,309 --> 00:09:02,150 S2: because they have no partner at this point of time. 189 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,590 S2: It's not just about Korea. Majority of women said it's 190 00:09:04,590 --> 00:09:06,319 S2: because I don't have someone right now who am I 191 00:09:06,350 --> 00:09:07,949 S2: going to go have a kid with? It's very easy. 192 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,010 S3: And we always want to make sure that when we 193 00:09:11,010 --> 00:09:14,450 S3: find our other half right, he is the one who 194 00:09:14,460 --> 00:09:18,300 S3: is responsible and committed to this relationship, even though we 195 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:20,280 S3: wouldn't even have a kid with that person. But I 196 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,709 S3: think one of the members of our clever team got 197 00:09:22,710 --> 00:09:25,920 S3: a very good point. Her name is Eyal as age, OK? 198 00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:28,949 S3: She sees that she's not worried because we can still 199 00:09:28,950 --> 00:09:31,709 S3: get pregnant on to our very last period, which is 200 00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:35,729 S3: 40 or 50 years. Like my ReCore, she got pregnant 201 00:09:35,730 --> 00:09:38,340 S3: in the 40s, and I think this is a valid point. 202 00:09:38,350 --> 00:09:39,540 S3: I never thought of it this way before. 203 00:09:40,710 --> 00:09:44,470 S2: Know that's true. And actually, but OK, on the opposing side, right? 204 00:09:44,490 --> 00:09:47,050 S2: We have a producer who is pregnant now who? 205 00:09:48,630 --> 00:09:49,590 S1: How she has 206 00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:53,250 S2: she, but she actually said I wasn't very concerned until 207 00:09:53,250 --> 00:09:55,710 S2: I got pregnant and I found all the complications that 208 00:09:55,710 --> 00:09:57,600 S2: could happen if you have kids when you're older, which 209 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:57,780 S2: makes 210 00:09:57,780 --> 00:10:01,920 S1: sense too. I remember a friend having a kid maybe 211 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,100 S1: last year when she was about 33, seven eight, and 212 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:08,790 S1: she has had other kids before that when she was younger. 213 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,120 S1: So I remember that when you're pregnant at that sort 214 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,450 S1: of age, they make you go through more tests, more 215 00:10:16,290 --> 00:10:19,800 S1: like blood tests and things like that, more checkups as well, 216 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,230 S1: because I think there's a lot of worry surrounding it. 217 00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:25,110 S1: And they always emphasized, like the doctors will always say, 218 00:10:25,110 --> 00:10:29,940 S1: like it's a higher risk, there's more complications to it, 219 00:10:30,179 --> 00:10:33,209 S1: there's a higher risk to Down syndrome as well and 220 00:10:33,210 --> 00:10:36,150 S1: things like that. So they're always very worried, the doctors 221 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,459 S1: and hence I think that's the kind of thing that 222 00:10:38,460 --> 00:10:42,360 S1: you might have to deal with expecting at a later age. 223 00:10:42,390 --> 00:10:44,550 S3: I think I've mentioned this previously on the show before 224 00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:48,720 S3: there was this Chinese singer calling me Vivian. She should 225 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,030 S3: or shouldn't you marry the Singaporean? I believe she only 226 00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:55,470 S3: found this guy possibilities. So in a way, she's very 227 00:10:55,470 --> 00:10:58,200 S3: cute for this guy. She she went through so much, 228 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,290 S3: you know, that included being confined to a bit for 229 00:11:01,290 --> 00:11:03,929 S3: one hundred and forty two days that she couldn't leave 230 00:11:03,929 --> 00:11:07,229 S3: a bit and she received more than three hundred injections 231 00:11:07,230 --> 00:11:10,620 S3: just to stabilize the fetus in a woman. That is 232 00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:13,990 S3: a lot. You went through a lot to conceive a baby. 233 00:11:14,010 --> 00:11:15,990 S2: This was very, very tough love, to be honest. And 234 00:11:18,090 --> 00:11:20,819 S2: the thing is that this whole concept of having kids 235 00:11:20,820 --> 00:11:23,130 S2: as well, right? I mean, it's really what is best 236 00:11:23,130 --> 00:11:25,800 S2: for you. And we have a producer who said, I'm 237 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,950 S2: not really concerned because at the moment, I have different priorities. 238 00:11:28,950 --> 00:11:30,990 S2: If I could have babies in the future, I'll just 239 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:31,980 S2: have a few more dogs 240 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,010 S1: who can also can exactly 241 00:11:38,460 --> 00:11:39,780 S2: OK. But the thing is that we were talking about 242 00:11:39,780 --> 00:11:42,420 S2: social egg freezing, right? This is something that is very 243 00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:45,420 S2: common in a lot of countries, but it's actually banned 244 00:11:45,420 --> 00:11:48,479 S2: in Singapore from what I understand. You need to have 245 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,870 S2: a certain underlying medical condition or a valid reason even. 246 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,040 S3: What is the reason behind that? 247 00:11:54,059 --> 00:11:56,849 S2: Yeah, I think there are a lot of different stakeholders 248 00:11:56,850 --> 00:11:58,980 S2: in this, so we're not going to pinpoint one, exactly. 249 00:11:59,190 --> 00:12:02,459 S2: But it's currently banned and only available to those with 250 00:12:02,460 --> 00:12:05,610 S2: medical needs, such as those who have to undergo chemotherapy 251 00:12:05,610 --> 00:12:08,130 S2: because it will affect their fertility rate. So there are 252 00:12:08,130 --> 00:12:10,410 S2: a lot of freeze it before we go through chemo 253 00:12:10,410 --> 00:12:14,070 S2: and stuff like that. But because it's not available to 254 00:12:14,070 --> 00:12:17,310 S2: like healthy women who have no valid reason, a lot 255 00:12:17,309 --> 00:12:20,460 S2: of Singaporean women actually travel overseas to do this and 256 00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:24,179 S2: their prey, and it's risky. It's expensive. There's so much 257 00:12:24,179 --> 00:12:27,840 S2: additional costs involved in all that, but you can also 258 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,270 S2: think of it in the big picture. As a nation, 259 00:12:30,270 --> 00:12:34,110 S2: we're trying to push our fertility rate birth rate higher. 260 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:39,810 S1: Don't you think that maybe with allowing it to happen 261 00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:44,490 S1: eight freezing that might eat in the fertility rate going up? 262 00:12:44,490 --> 00:12:47,070 S1: Because if I don't want it now, or let's say, 263 00:12:47,070 --> 00:12:50,100 S1: people like Hazel, for example, you know, she's twenty seven, 264 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:52,470 S1: she needs time to find somebody. She needs time to 265 00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:54,719 S1: decide if he's the one. If he's not the one 266 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,400 S1: and she has to find somebody else, that's a couple 267 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,940 S1: more years and she wants kids. Yeah, but if this 268 00:12:59,940 --> 00:13:02,040 S1: option is not available to her, it's going to make 269 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,200 S1: it harder for her. So she wants to contribute to 270 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,219 S1: the number of like kids in Singapore, but a lot 271 00:13:07,220 --> 00:13:10,140 S1: of it will come sometime. Know now how 272 00:13:10,140 --> 00:13:12,030 S2: many kids do you want to contribute to the birth 273 00:13:12,030 --> 00:13:12,660 S2: rate in Singapore? 274 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:18,570 S3: Can do that? Do we not do this? This is 275 00:13:18,570 --> 00:13:20,219 S3: a very good point that you are brought up because, 276 00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:22,679 S3: you know, there's actually a very credible study done last 277 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,590 S3: year that shows that fewer than 10 percent of women 278 00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:28,110 S3: actually use the eggs of the freezing them. So you 279 00:13:28,110 --> 00:13:30,690 S3: see the 90 percent of women they actually chose to 280 00:13:30,690 --> 00:13:33,360 S3: freeze eggs, but they didn't end up using them at all. 281 00:13:34,059 --> 00:13:35,160 S1: Oh. OK. 282 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,680 S2: So it's more of like a precautionary and you know, 283 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,110 S2: you have insurance like they always say, right, don't put 284 00:13:40,110 --> 00:13:41,250 S2: all your eggs in one basket. 285 00:13:41,460 --> 00:13:43,790 S1: Literally, literally literally 286 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,320 S2: put some in the bank, put some insight your womb. 287 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,000 S2: Also your ovaries, your heart. 288 00:13:48,690 --> 00:13:50,220 S1: OK, so I'll touch on a bit 289 00:13:50,220 --> 00:13:54,090 S2: more about the landscape in Singapore and surrounding egg freezing. OK? 290 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,720 S2: I think one of the ministries is a free that 291 00:13:57,750 --> 00:14:01,590 S2: it could lead to women delaying marriage because let's say 292 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:05,190 S2: you know that you have insurance policy, you're excited. They're like, Oh, 293 00:14:05,190 --> 00:14:07,860 S2: can I have two more years? You know, let me 294 00:14:08,070 --> 00:14:10,650 S2: focus on other things at this moment, but I think 295 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,800 S2: you need to think of the flip side as well. 296 00:14:12,809 --> 00:14:14,740 S2: What if they are not ready? 297 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:15,449 S1: Exactly, you 298 00:14:15,450 --> 00:14:17,610 S2: force them to have kids, and that's why divorce rates 299 00:14:17,610 --> 00:14:17,849 S2: are so 300 00:14:17,850 --> 00:14:21,720 S1: high. I was supportive that it would because have you 301 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,210 S1: not heard of, because I have heard like personal stories 302 00:14:24,210 --> 00:14:28,110 S1: from people I know who I'm not seeing that they settle. 303 00:14:28,260 --> 00:14:30,540 S1: But we they hit a certain point their life and 304 00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:33,060 S1: they feel the need to rush, even though they're not 305 00:14:33,060 --> 00:14:36,420 S1: 100 percent sure of the person, but they feel they 306 00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:39,060 S1: need to let you know what. He's not bad. It's 307 00:14:39,060 --> 00:14:41,790 S1: not fantastic, but it's not bad and I'm running out 308 00:14:41,790 --> 00:14:43,730 S1: of time. So go because 309 00:14:43,770 --> 00:14:47,130 S2: they don't have this option. Exactly. And actually, in just this, 310 00:14:47,130 --> 00:14:49,540 S2: you're in. February and July, there were a lot of 311 00:14:49,690 --> 00:14:53,230 S2: stakeholders trying to raise this issue in parliament to kind 312 00:14:53,230 --> 00:14:57,280 S2: of rethink its policy on social egg freezing. Miss Chongli 313 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,460 S2: wave from two companies GRC actually argued that under the 314 00:15:00,460 --> 00:15:03,940 S2: existing circumstances, rate women have to go overseas and they 315 00:15:03,940 --> 00:15:07,510 S2: have to bear the risk, bear the costs of doing that. 316 00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:11,050 S2: Why not have it here where our medical technology is 317 00:15:11,050 --> 00:15:11,680 S2: so advanced? 318 00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:16,060 S1: Yeah, I think quite recently as well aware the organization, 319 00:15:16,270 --> 00:15:19,540 S1: I think they have released a statement trying to urge 320 00:15:19,540 --> 00:15:22,680 S1: the Singapore government to reconsider this because the notion of 321 00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:24,910 S1: it on the basis of it is that they should 322 00:15:24,910 --> 00:15:26,590 S1: be given a choice, that women should be given a 323 00:15:26,590 --> 00:15:29,500 S1: choice with what they want to do the eggs. 324 00:15:29,650 --> 00:15:31,750 S3: So I think the government is expected to give a 325 00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:34,370 S3: response in black and white by the end of the year. 326 00:15:34,370 --> 00:15:36,790 S3: So there's one thing for sure with it. We know 327 00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:39,760 S3: we can look forward to that goes what do you think? 328 00:15:39,770 --> 00:15:43,570 S3: Do you think you want everything to be legal here 329 00:15:43,570 --> 00:15:45,100 S3: in Singapore for all women? 330 00:15:46,030 --> 00:15:50,080 S1: I think it would be an option I would consider, 331 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,970 S1: and I do think that maybe we should relook at 332 00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:55,180 S1: do this because at the end of the day, with 333 00:15:55,180 --> 00:15:58,660 S1: a lot of things, right, you know, things like control 334 00:15:58,660 --> 00:16:01,860 S1: over your body and things like that, you should have that. Yeah. 335 00:16:01,870 --> 00:16:04,900 S1: And this is part of your body in your life 336 00:16:04,900 --> 00:16:07,840 S1: as well. And I do understand that maybe, you know, 337 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,120 S1: they don't want people to delay marriage that if you 338 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,150 S1: know that you have the back up the insurance, you 339 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,890 S1: should take your time. But I think it could. The 340 00:16:14,890 --> 00:16:17,979 S1: reverse could happen as well. Yeah, because people might want 341 00:16:17,980 --> 00:16:21,370 S1: kids just not now. And you give them this option, 342 00:16:21,820 --> 00:16:24,370 S1: you will. Your numbers will rise lower. Maybe not now, 343 00:16:24,370 --> 00:16:27,370 S1: but maybe later. So for me, I feel like I 344 00:16:27,370 --> 00:16:31,030 S1: might consider it. Maybe not for like now, but for 345 00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:34,730 S1: my later children. If I chose to have them and 346 00:16:34,770 --> 00:16:36,090 S1: I'm a bit older, 347 00:16:36,430 --> 00:16:37,800 S2: got early children and took 348 00:16:38,020 --> 00:16:39,470 S1: until relatively easy. 349 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,200 S2: What about you? Would you consider, 350 00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:43,060 S3: you know what? I've been thinking about what I mentioned 351 00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:45,520 S3: just now about the credible study that showed that fewer 352 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,230 S3: than 10 percent of women use that eight for the 353 00:16:47,230 --> 00:16:50,000 S3: freezing them. I was thinking about the 90 percent of women. 354 00:16:50,020 --> 00:16:52,330 S3: I think what could have happened or may have happened 355 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,020 S3: could be that they chose to freeze at the ended 356 00:16:56,020 --> 00:17:00,280 S3: up getting pregnant the natural way. So like when Jenny 357 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,870 S3: mentioned just now, these could be like a precautionary measure 358 00:17:02,890 --> 00:17:05,590 S3: kind of thing. I do feel like it's helpful for 359 00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:09,010 S3: women to have this option. But in the end, if 360 00:17:09,010 --> 00:17:11,860 S3: you are not using the eggs that you force is 361 00:17:11,859 --> 00:17:14,219 S3: actually good for you as well if you get pregnant 362 00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:16,810 S3: the natural way. I think this opens up a lot 363 00:17:16,810 --> 00:17:20,200 S3: more doors for women, and I think I would prefer 364 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,010 S3: for that to be legal in Singapore. Not nothing that 365 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,500 S3: I want my eggs frozen. I haven't thought about that 366 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:30,160 S3: in detail yet, but it could be a good opportunity, 367 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,280 S3: all like a good kind of time breather for many 368 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,000 S3: women out there. 369 00:17:34,660 --> 00:17:36,850 S2: I hear you, I hear you. I think personally, for me, 370 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,360 S2: I'm not in a rush and I I'm not considering 371 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,060 S2: egg freezing right now because I feel like as much 372 00:17:43,060 --> 00:17:46,300 S2: as possible. I want to conceive naturally. The only reason 373 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:48,700 S2: why I would in a few years is because, OK, 374 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:51,700 S2: so my my pet actually told me right? The health 375 00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:55,179 S2: of the baby is dependent on the health of the 376 00:17:55,180 --> 00:17:58,330 S2: egg and the sperm at the time of conception, not 377 00:17:58,330 --> 00:18:01,060 S2: at the time of birth, right? So that just means 378 00:18:01,060 --> 00:18:03,280 S2: that if my eggs that healthy and now let's say 379 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,000 S2: I live a healthy lifestyle, but if they're slightly healthier now, 380 00:18:07,390 --> 00:18:10,470 S2: then it would give the baby the best fighting chance. Yeah, 381 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,030 S2: so that would be the main reason. But right now, 382 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,760 S2: I don't think I would if it were available and say, Well, 383 00:18:15,820 --> 00:18:17,689 S2: I don't think I would go and freeze my eggs. 384 00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:18,940 S2: Maybe when I'm 30. 385 00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:20,470 S1: But I think that 386 00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:22,659 S2: a lot of reasons why people would not want to 387 00:18:22,660 --> 00:18:26,050 S2: get the eggs freeze. Mostly there's a lot of Maisey 388 00:18:26,050 --> 00:18:28,690 S2: is out there that would kind of judge your opinion 389 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,550 S2: as much as we want to see like, oh, we 390 00:18:30,550 --> 00:18:32,810 S2: live in an inclusive society, right? 391 00:18:32,830 --> 00:18:34,740 S1: Sorry, I don't understand why we're 392 00:18:35,050 --> 00:18:37,120 S2: all like, what would people say, like, Oh, you freeze 393 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,100 S2: your eggs, you know, you never conceive naturally. Why don't 394 00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:41,380 S2: you just, you know, do it the normal way that 395 00:18:41,420 --> 00:18:41,670 S2: they're 396 00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:46,629 S3: no longer angry. But you know what? There really are 397 00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:49,869 S3: risk if you conceive a child through a frozen egg. 398 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:52,270 S3: This increased risk for both by then child due to 399 00:18:52,270 --> 00:18:55,000 S3: pregnancy to lunch. This is nothing that you just has 400 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,780 S3: to do with your age because you're older and your 401 00:18:57,970 --> 00:19:00,129 S3: your body, your immune system is weaker and all that 402 00:19:00,130 --> 00:19:03,160 S3: kind of thing. And the rate of successful completion from 403 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,120 S3: frozen eggs is actually quite low four point five percent 404 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,960 S3: to 12 percent. I think it's a very, very low percentage. 405 00:19:09,970 --> 00:19:13,959 S3: So I don't think this Nazy is a wrong completely, 406 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:14,530 S3: so to speak. 407 00:19:14,740 --> 00:19:17,560 S2: Yeah. And I think it's also a very expensive procedure. 408 00:19:17,950 --> 00:19:21,669 S2: Just across the border in Malaysia, it costs $5000 to 409 00:19:21,670 --> 00:19:25,690 S2: get the procedure done and the storage freezer one thousand 410 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,810 S2: hour employee at. I just go to Store Harbor and 411 00:19:28,810 --> 00:19:30,010 S2: I just ran a locker. 412 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,240 S1: Just check in. There you go free. You have my, 413 00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:35,140 S1: you 414 00:19:35,710 --> 00:19:38,920 S2: know, but it does in Malaysia. In Australia, it costs 415 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,330 S2: 11000 Singapore dollars for the procedure alone. All right. 416 00:19:43,450 --> 00:19:47,490 S1: OK, so that means right that whether you freeze your. 417 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:52,320 S1: Eggs are not that conceiving at a later age is 418 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:53,310 S1: still a problem. 419 00:19:53,820 --> 00:19:56,430 S2: Whether you freeze your eggs or not, you still have 420 00:19:56,430 --> 00:19:59,730 S2: to try and conceive as early as possible. So those 421 00:19:59,730 --> 00:20:02,310 S2: people that are saying it will delay them having kids. 422 00:20:02,609 --> 00:20:05,010 S2: But how much can we delay if all right, yeah, 423 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:06,460 S1: I'm getting on. 424 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,240 S2: I think there are arguments on both sides, but I 425 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,699 S2: do want to bring up, OK, there's an organization, I'm 426 00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:15,030 S2: not going to name them. But they have said that 427 00:20:15,030 --> 00:20:19,899 S2: performing these procedures egg freezing on healthy people is ethically questionable. 428 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,890 S2: They're a religious organization, OK, but then they also sit 429 00:20:23,130 --> 00:20:28,020 S2: along with egg freezing. Abortion also cannot aesthetic surgery. Plastic 430 00:20:28,020 --> 00:20:30,150 S2: surgery also cannot because you're healthy or what you need 431 00:20:30,150 --> 00:20:30,870 S2: to go and do your nose. 432 00:20:31,260 --> 00:20:33,179 S1: Because my problem now, no matter 433 00:20:33,390 --> 00:20:35,369 S2: what do you think about, is hazy. Like if they say, 434 00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:38,520 S2: you know, aesthetic surgery and egg freezing are all under 435 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:39,510 S2: the same category 436 00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:42,510 S3: coming from their standpoint, right? They call this practice a 437 00:20:42,510 --> 00:20:45,630 S3: selfish act because it sees career as more important than 438 00:20:45,630 --> 00:20:48,910 S3: anything else, right? So we can't blame this, this group 439 00:20:48,930 --> 00:20:51,330 S3: of people for thinking what they think. But we also 440 00:20:51,330 --> 00:20:54,000 S3: can't blame people who put their career ahead of anything 441 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,310 S3: else because it's our lives and we choose to live 442 00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:59,730 S3: it the way we want. So I think it is definitely. 443 00:20:59,730 --> 00:21:02,100 S3: If you feel like you're comfortable paying that amount of 444 00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:04,560 S3: money to get your eggs frozen without use in the 445 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,060 S3: end is ultimately your choice. 446 00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:08,970 S1: I think, you know, if you have some sort of 447 00:21:08,970 --> 00:21:12,149 S1: concern or fear, whether it's Korea and or whatever the 448 00:21:12,150 --> 00:21:15,660 S1: reason is for you to delay having children. I don't 449 00:21:15,660 --> 00:21:17,879 S1: think the reason is a problem. So you know them 450 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,560 S1: saying that it's a selfish egg or whatever it is, 451 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,300 S1: I don't think the reason is a problem because if 452 00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:24,600 S1: you look at it, that means that these people, this woman, 453 00:21:24,869 --> 00:21:28,740 S1: they know the weight of having a child and they 454 00:21:28,740 --> 00:21:32,400 S1: probably want to be as ready as possible, as stable 455 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,500 S1: as possible, emotionally, mentally, maybe financially before they raise a child, 456 00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:39,870 S1: which means that they know the gravity of it as 457 00:21:39,869 --> 00:21:42,030 S1: compared to just diving head into it 458 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,550 S2: or like having a kid to save your marriage, which 459 00:21:44,550 --> 00:21:47,340 S2: we've heard, you know, one too many times. And I 460 00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:49,950 S2: think that that is one of the, I would say, 461 00:21:49,950 --> 00:21:53,790 S2: one of the positive arguments of social egg freezing. And 462 00:21:53,790 --> 00:21:57,540 S2: I also read online that by having this well, by 463 00:21:57,540 --> 00:22:00,750 S2: having this insurance policy, you rate your whole approach to 464 00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:03,450 S2: family building is different because you go in without that 465 00:22:03,450 --> 00:22:06,300 S2: pressure of like, Oh, my, time is running out. Then 466 00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:08,129 S2: you go in with like, OK, I really want to 467 00:22:08,130 --> 00:22:10,260 S2: open my heart, open my mind and find someone that's 468 00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:13,230 S2: right for me and we'll stick it through me. And 469 00:22:13,230 --> 00:22:15,900 S2: you're not like settling like what Zora said early on 470 00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:20,460 S2: as well. So those are some of the, I would say, benefits. Yeah, yeah. 471 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,100 S2: On the positive side, for sure. 472 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,470 S3: So do you girls think that this ban should be 473 00:22:25,470 --> 00:22:26,700 S3: lifted here in Singapore? 474 00:22:26,910 --> 00:22:29,220 S2: I've always been of the opinion that it's your body, 475 00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:31,950 S2: your choice, and I was very, very honestly, very disappointed 476 00:22:31,950 --> 00:22:35,369 S2: to find out that in Texas, this is really huge news. Recently, 477 00:22:35,369 --> 00:22:38,520 S2: they just banned abortions for six weeks and up. Most 478 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,190 S2: women don't even know that they're pregnant at six weeks 479 00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:43,910 S2: because that's just two weeks from your last period. Does 480 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:44,670 S2: it make sense? 481 00:22:44,820 --> 00:22:47,160 S1: I'll tell you a crazy story. A friend of mine, 482 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,619 S1: when he found out she was pregnant seven months into it. 483 00:22:49,619 --> 00:22:51,320 S1: La seven month. 484 00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:54,240 S3: Can that be this thing that she gained? A lot, 485 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:54,629 S3: a lot of 486 00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:57,900 S1: it, you know? I honestly cannot understand until I honestly 487 00:22:57,900 --> 00:22:58,879 S1: cannot understand. 488 00:22:58,890 --> 00:23:01,679 S2: But we've seen stories where they like squat on the 489 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,300 S2: toilet and they thought they have a stomach ache, right? 490 00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:05,280 S2: This is nuts, right? Where the baby? 491 00:23:05,310 --> 00:23:10,070 S1: Have you guys really just kicked off this nut nuts? 492 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:10,940 S1: But but did 493 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,270 S2: you know it reinforces the argument that at six weeks, yeah, 494 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,060 S2: there's no way. So that's very disappointing, and I'm very 495 00:23:18,060 --> 00:23:21,780 S2: thankful that in Singapore, abortion is legal. Mm hmm. But 496 00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:24,030 S2: for this, I think we could take it a step 497 00:23:24,030 --> 00:23:26,580 S2: further and lift the ban. But he's what do you feel? 498 00:23:26,820 --> 00:23:28,710 S3: I feel that way as well, I think to each 499 00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:31,869 S3: his own. If this was a mixed her choice, the 500 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,780 S3: visa excuse, we need to pay the amount of money 501 00:23:33,780 --> 00:23:36,990 S3: she's willing to commit to this, then why not? 502 00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:40,619 S1: Hmm. I think from a OK, if I think of 503 00:23:40,619 --> 00:23:43,320 S1: it from a maybe government standpoint or, you know, just 504 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,650 S1: nation building and things like that, I do feel like 505 00:23:47,220 --> 00:23:49,710 S1: maybe they're looking at it from a standpoint where they 506 00:23:49,710 --> 00:23:54,629 S1: want things more instant, where they want things more less 507 00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:58,890 S1: risky and like, Oh, just eliminate the option and you 508 00:23:58,890 --> 00:24:00,600 S1: won't have to do of that problem. 509 00:24:01,020 --> 00:24:02,310 S2: Understandable from that 510 00:24:02,310 --> 00:24:05,340 S1: viewpoint. But I do feel like maybe opening up your 511 00:24:05,340 --> 00:24:08,970 S1: options as the individual would bring your benefits in 512 00:24:08,970 --> 00:24:13,560 S2: future, encourage more people to, you know, exactly without that pressure, 513 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,080 S2: you might feel a bit more ready. Divorce rates might 514 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,040 S2: go down. Yeah, who 515 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,119 S1: knows all the more. 516 00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:20,010 S3: So on that note, how do you think we can 517 00:24:20,010 --> 00:24:23,760 S3: change people's perception of freezing their eggs? Hmm. 518 00:24:23,850 --> 00:24:26,280 S2: Well, I think that firstly, talking about it is very 519 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,330 S2: important and not making it such a taboo, taboo thing. Actually, 520 00:24:30,330 --> 00:24:32,130 S2: I have never asked my mom, but let me go, 521 00:24:32,130 --> 00:24:34,100 S2: ask my mom when I get home. Like, if ever 522 00:24:34,109 --> 00:24:35,470 S2: I wanted to freeze my eggs, what were you doing? 523 00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:39,330 S1: Right? Oh, actually, oh oh. I never thought of it 524 00:24:39,330 --> 00:24:42,180 S1: from a societal point of view because I never understood, right? 525 00:24:42,450 --> 00:24:47,150 S1: Because it's always been Oh my life, my choice, my body. 526 00:24:47,290 --> 00:24:50,050 S1: I choice, and I do feel like that should be 527 00:24:50,050 --> 00:24:52,630 S1: how it is as well. Yes. I never really thought 528 00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:55,689 S1: about old people say I actually find it quite bizarre 529 00:24:55,690 --> 00:25:00,880 S1: that people, you know, have negative perceptions of it. But 530 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,640 S1: I do feel like 531 00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:04,209 S3: I must be doing this and I hate what if 532 00:25:04,210 --> 00:25:05,679 S3: I told my mom this? You know that one of 533 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,510 S3: the freeze my ex? I can almost immediately picture Josie. No. Why? 534 00:25:10,690 --> 00:25:13,960 S3: Because this is not the conventional way of people doing things. 535 00:25:14,170 --> 00:25:16,119 S3: This is not the conventional way of women doing things. 536 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,930 S3: And in traditional Asian parents, it is not conventional. It 537 00:25:19,930 --> 00:25:22,900 S3: is unconventional. Then don't go for it because people would 538 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,800 S3: do for it. I mean, this is what society and 539 00:25:25,810 --> 00:25:28,659 S3: maybe the older generation thinks. I'm supposing. What do you 540 00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:30,670 S3: think about me? I want to see 541 00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:32,409 S2: my mom is pretty much let me do whatever I 542 00:25:32,410 --> 00:25:36,580 S2: want in my life. I think she might be disapproving, 543 00:25:36,580 --> 00:25:40,150 S2: but if given the chance to argue rationally, she might 544 00:25:40,150 --> 00:25:42,670 S2: understand as well. But I really think this is linked 545 00:25:42,670 --> 00:25:45,970 S2: to the bigger picture. Where are women only good for 546 00:25:45,970 --> 00:25:49,650 S2: birth and kids? Is that always good? Absolutely not. You know, 547 00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:51,700 S2: we have so much other things in our life, and 548 00:25:51,970 --> 00:25:54,040 S2: there are tons of women that don't want to have kids. 549 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,090 S2: That's there's nothing 550 00:25:55,090 --> 00:25:57,310 S1: wrong with it at all. I think this one thing 551 00:25:57,310 --> 00:26:00,700 S1: that I am reminded of, which is people are afraid 552 00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:05,110 S1: of what they don't understand. So maybe, maybe this is 553 00:26:05,109 --> 00:26:08,770 S1: exactly like maybe IVF 20 years ago where people didn't 554 00:26:08,770 --> 00:26:10,970 S1: understand what was going on. They were afraid of it. 555 00:26:10,990 --> 00:26:13,240 S1: They would just stay away from it. But because it's 556 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,590 S1: become a norm now, society even encourages it. So maybe, 557 00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:20,590 S1: you know, with time, people will understand that actually, there's 558 00:26:20,590 --> 00:26:23,500 S1: nothing wrong with this, that it might even bring benefits. 559 00:26:23,710 --> 00:26:26,590 S1: It just if anything at all. It's just a security 560 00:26:26,590 --> 00:26:29,380 S1: blanket that opens up your options. So there shouldn't be 561 00:26:29,380 --> 00:26:32,500 S1: negative connotations attached to it, but maybe we need time. 562 00:26:32,530 --> 00:26:36,730 S3: So interesting story. I had a friend who conceived via IVF, 563 00:26:37,030 --> 00:26:39,430 S3: and we've been talking about it right until the kid 564 00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:41,530 S3: was born. The kid is maybe like three or four 565 00:26:41,530 --> 00:26:43,780 S3: years or at least you are talking about. There's so 566 00:26:43,780 --> 00:26:45,640 S3: one thing that she came to me and said, Oh, 567 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,620 S3: can you please go talk about like, how my kid 568 00:26:47,619 --> 00:26:50,350 S3: was conceived in front of him because I don't want 569 00:26:50,350 --> 00:26:53,320 S3: him to feel like he's weird. So this is very 570 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,470 S3: interesting because the kid was brought to Earth via idea, 571 00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:59,470 S3: but the mother doesn't want to know about it because 572 00:26:59,890 --> 00:27:02,770 S3: she's afraid of what the kid would think. But, you know, 573 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,090 S3: I think it's fairly normal. It's OK. You gave him life, 574 00:27:07,090 --> 00:27:07,710 S3: you know what I mean? 575 00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:10,750 S1: It doesn't matter via what method. You know, I think 576 00:27:10,750 --> 00:27:13,240 S2: it's great that a lot of, you know, mom influences 577 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,510 S2: are sharing openly about their journey like I conceived through IVF. 578 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,939 S2: Let me tell you about the difficulties, the benefits and 579 00:27:18,940 --> 00:27:22,810 S2: all that. It normalizes it and it tells younger females 580 00:27:22,810 --> 00:27:26,440 S2: as well. You don't just have to conceive naturally. Exactly. 581 00:27:26,619 --> 00:27:29,590 S2: And don't beat yourself up if you can. And in fact, 582 00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:31,899 S2: the thing is that egg freezing is not just like 583 00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:34,300 S2: you go in. Then you think about these your eggs 584 00:27:34,420 --> 00:27:37,270 S2: and you're done. It's actually very similar to IVF. You 585 00:27:37,270 --> 00:27:40,030 S2: got to get hormone injections. Wait for it to grow. 586 00:27:40,270 --> 00:27:43,150 S2: They put you asleep and then extract the eight from 587 00:27:43,150 --> 00:27:45,820 S2: you is not an easy process at all, which means 588 00:27:45,820 --> 00:27:48,490 S2: that if you committed to that, it's it's a commitment 589 00:27:48,490 --> 00:27:51,609 S2: that you are sure of it. Hmm. So now let's 590 00:27:51,609 --> 00:27:53,619 S2: help the women out there. Let's have our girls out there. 591 00:27:53,619 --> 00:27:54,580 S1: OK, if 592 00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:57,669 S2: let's say they feel this societal pressure to be the 593 00:27:57,670 --> 00:28:02,869 S2: ideal woman and their relatives impose these expectations on them. 594 00:28:02,900 --> 00:28:04,420 S2: What would your advice to them be? 595 00:28:04,750 --> 00:28:07,240 S3: I would say do whatever the hell you want to do, 596 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,280 S3: and nobody has to know about it. You don't have 597 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,580 S3: to tell your parents or parents in law your friends 598 00:28:12,580 --> 00:28:15,940 S3: about your decisions because they are yours. So just do 599 00:28:15,940 --> 00:28:18,460 S3: whatever makes you comfortable and just keep quiet about it 600 00:28:18,670 --> 00:28:24,250 S1: or take note about userra Sibila. I do feel that 601 00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:28,120 S1: you don't owe anyone an explanation. And I have always 602 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,639 S1: been on that camp. You want to do you do 603 00:28:30,670 --> 00:28:32,320 S1: you own it? I think at the end of the day, 604 00:28:32,619 --> 00:28:36,730 S1: you should understand that your choices has consequences. If you're 605 00:28:36,730 --> 00:28:39,489 S1: OK with the consequence, do ever, you know? And I 606 00:28:39,490 --> 00:28:42,630 S1: don't think anybody's opinions affect that. Absolutely. 607 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,340 S2: And do run off this episode. I have some great 608 00:28:45,340 --> 00:28:48,460 S2: comebacks for you. OK, if anyone asks you when you 609 00:28:48,460 --> 00:28:49,270 S2: have kids who 610 00:28:49,450 --> 00:28:54,070 S1: are ready for this, OK, ready. OK. OK, Zoey, ask me. Joanna, 611 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:55,540 S1: when are you having kids? 612 00:28:55,540 --> 00:29:00,590 S2: Are are actually. I'm still practicing law. We are more 613 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,420 S2: I have more I see you again as me here, 614 00:29:02,690 --> 00:29:05,350 S1: that was number one. Number two, I think I'm going 615 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,610 S1: to go to you. 36. 30 home. When you having kids, huh? 616 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:11,870 S2: Oh, are you going to pay for them? 617 00:29:12,750 --> 00:29:15,970 S1: OK. OK, I'm still in the neighborhood. 618 00:29:16,050 --> 00:29:20,930 S3: The dummy. Oh, already your mother waiting so long. Ready? 619 00:29:20,930 --> 00:29:21,860 S3: When are you having kids? 620 00:29:21,860 --> 00:29:25,250 S2: Up until I have kids when you start asking me 621 00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:32,000 S2: this question? There we have it. Right? Those, though next 622 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,220 S2: Chinese New Year, you can sue your relatives back with 623 00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:34,640 S2: that one. 624 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,490 S1: I will try using them, but I've been very lucky 625 00:29:37,490 --> 00:29:38,870 S1: that people don't ask me. They don't care 626 00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:42,620 S2: or they don't. They don't scare you. So thank you 627 00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:44,770 S2: very much for joining us on this episode of Clarity. 628 00:29:44,820 --> 00:29:49,110 S2: Ease makes it of all us on Instagram. It's clarity 629 00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:51,290 S2: decor for updates on our future episodes. 630 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,660 S1: That's right. You can listen to all of our podcasts 631 00:29:53,660 --> 00:29:57,800 S1: on me. Listen on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, wherever you 632 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,290 S1: consume your podcasts. Don't forget as well you can watch 633 00:30:00,290 --> 00:30:04,180 S1: individuals on YouTube. Jabba's your comments. We always read them, 634 00:30:04,190 --> 00:30:06,530 S3: and don't forget to turn on your push notifications so 635 00:30:06,530 --> 00:30:09,170 S3: you are notified every time a new episode is up. 636 00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:10,490 S3: My name is Hazel, 637 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,140 S1: I'm a zebra and I'm Timmy. 638 00:30:12,140 --> 00:30:16,500 S3: And well, do you think someone has? By Remorse, Baby Girl.