WEBVTT - Tales from the original climate activist Sivasothi | EP 1 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:00.550 This 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:01.500 is a C N A 0:00:01.500 --> 0:00:03.250 podcast. 0:00:04.340 --> 0:00:08.840 Hi welcome back to the climate conversations. We start a 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.059 brand new season with me julie you 0:00:11.539 --> 0:00:14.660 during the day. I present the flagship morning show ASIA 0:00:14.660 --> 0:00:17.750 first on C. N. A. And as part of my work, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:22.850 I've been reporting on climate change related stories from doomsday predictions, 0:00:22.860 --> 0:00:27.260 the climate catastrophes around the world almost on a daily basis. 0:00:27.740 --> 0:00:30.700 And at times the challenges just didn't feel all that 0:00:30.710 --> 0:00:31.760 personal to me, 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:36.510 Perhaps because climate change is invisible, slow moving and can 0:00:36.510 --> 0:00:40.140 feel so far away, especially here in Singapore where we 0:00:40.140 --> 0:00:43.280 are spared much of the effects of climate change currently. 0:00:43.300 --> 0:00:46.280 But recently I was given the chance to produce a 0:00:46.290 --> 0:00:48.760 12 part series on sustainability 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.519 and had a chance to talk to amazing eco heroes, 0:00:52.540 --> 0:00:57.090 visited companies focused on delivering brilliant ideas and solutions for 0:00:57.090 --> 0:01:00.450 a greener planet and also looked at ways that each 0:01:00.450 --> 0:01:04.940 of us can do to fight climate change. I was 0:01:04.950 --> 0:01:08.940 deeply inspired to delve into these issues and I'm certainly 0:01:08.940 --> 0:01:11.730 looking forward to taking you on this journey with me 0:01:11.740 --> 0:01:14.130 to learn from the people who are in the thick 0:01:14.130 --> 0:01:16.649 of things, the people who used their time, 0:01:16.740 --> 0:01:19.740 their effort and money to do their part to make 0:01:19.740 --> 0:01:23.760 a difference and maybe like me, you'll be inspired as 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:24.260 well 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.990 Today we welcome someone who was knee deep in this 0:01:27.990 --> 0:01:32.740 space even before climate activism became a buzzword made famous 0:01:32.740 --> 0:01:37.360 of course by a young Swedish teenager. 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:39.860 This is all wrong. 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:41.650 I shouldn't be up here, 0:01:42.140 --> 0:01:44.690 I should be back in school on the other side 0:01:44.690 --> 0:01:45.560 of the ocean. 0:01:46.140 --> 0:01:49.950 Yet you all come to us, young people for hope 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:51.750 how dare you 0:01:52.340 --> 0:01:54.990 and that of course was 16 year old Greta to 0:01:54.990 --> 0:01:58.120 Hamburg addressing world leaders at the U. N. Climate action 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.570 summit and since then she has become a social media 0:02:01.570 --> 0:02:05.660 force and the times 2019 person of the year, 0:02:06.140 --> 0:02:10.630 her powerful words also demonstrate how climate change conversations are 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.990 often set up to pit the young against the old. 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.230 After all. The common narrative is that climate change is 0:02:17.230 --> 0:02:21.150 a problem that previous generations have created and which is 0:02:21.150 --> 0:02:25.600 now dumped onto current and future generations to deal with. 0:02:25.610 --> 0:02:27.350 And also activism 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.670 is often seen as a pursuit for younger people, the 0:02:30.669 --> 0:02:33.840 ones who have higher stakes in the future of the planet. 0:02:33.850 --> 0:02:36.560 So is there still a place in the climate scene 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.209 for older activists? What can we learn from them who 0:02:40.210 --> 0:02:44.660 jumped aboard a green bandwagon way before it became fashionable. 0:02:45.340 --> 0:02:49.120 My guest today is N Siva Soc, a climate activist 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.940 who has been immersed in mangroves and wildlife for research, 0:02:52.950 --> 0:02:57.480 education and conservation at the National University of Singapore since 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.970 the late 19 eighties and as one of the earliest 0:03:00.980 --> 0:03:04.059 adopters of eco blogging in Singapore. 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:09.060 He has contributed his expertise to numerous wildlife conservation communities 0:03:09.060 --> 0:03:12.450 and also inspired many around him to support the cause. 0:03:12.490 --> 0:03:16.150 Siva welcome Good to see you. 0:03:16.540 --> 0:03:19.170 Before we start, I couldn't help but notice the nickname 0:03:19.169 --> 0:03:22.150 you use online. The otter man, 0:03:22.540 --> 0:03:25.880 I guess we ought to know why that's your nickname. 0:03:25.889 --> 0:03:28.579 Tell me the story behind it because I really do 0:03:28.580 --> 0:03:29.860 not see the resemblance. 0:03:30.540 --> 0:03:33.610 Well my friends will contest it. There's a photo of 0:03:33.610 --> 0:03:35.230 me on the other side by side and they say 0:03:35.230 --> 0:03:38.600 okay it's really close. But really it came about in 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:43.400 a time when people were really unaware about nature in Singapore. 0:03:43.410 --> 0:03:46.340 So when I started doing my auto work also was 0:03:46.340 --> 0:03:50.870 giving talks about mangroves and wildlife and having a monocle 0:03:50.870 --> 0:03:53.660 is really useful. People get excited. They are curious 0:03:53.940 --> 0:03:57.580 and of course the photographs I use, my friends photographs, 0:03:57.580 --> 0:04:02.030 they take better photos and that really wild audiences everywhere 0:04:02.030 --> 0:04:08.270 in schools, in corporate boardrooms overseas. So that was meant 0:04:08.270 --> 0:04:12.380 to mobilize people to realize we do have things worth 0:04:12.380 --> 0:04:13.160 protecting 0:04:13.340 --> 0:04:15.730 right at the doorstep and to pay a little bit 0:04:15.730 --> 0:04:16.760 more attention. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.500 Yeah. Otters. I mean I'm fascinated by them too because 0:04:19.500 --> 0:04:22.170 how they just integrate into urban space and pop up 0:04:22.170 --> 0:04:25.140 here and there and rush hour traffic and condominium pools. 0:04:25.150 --> 0:04:28.010 But let's start with a little background about the work 0:04:28.010 --> 0:04:31.469 you do. You wear many hats as a senior lecturer 0:04:31.470 --> 0:04:33.460 at the En US Biological Sciences, 0:04:33.790 --> 0:04:37.460 the Director of studies at Ridgeview residential college and 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.730 a research associate in the lee kong chian natural history museum. 0:04:41.730 --> 0:04:44.750 Just to name a few. You've also been heavily involved 0:04:44.750 --> 0:04:47.099 in many wildlife conservation groups, some of which you are 0:04:47.110 --> 0:04:48.760 even the founder of 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.640 what drives you in all these activities. Do you see 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.030 them as a separate efforts or do they all form 0:04:55.029 --> 0:04:58.450 part of your passion for conservation and wildlife. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:03.320 So Singapore is a highly urbanized city, it's a capitalist 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:07.330 based economy. So the nature of such residents in such 0:05:07.330 --> 0:05:11.310 cities is they will become divorced from nature and you'll 0:05:11.310 --> 0:05:14.529 see it in the public, you'll see it in policymakers 0:05:14.529 --> 0:05:17.360 and you'll see it even in students. So 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:19.560 it's such a big mountain to climb. 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:24.390 So you apply yourself to any and every opportunity now 0:05:24.390 --> 0:05:27.380 in the 80s no one was interested. So you would 0:05:27.380 --> 0:05:31.320 have to fight your way in and once they hear 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.190 your stories then the images and the stories of nature 0:05:34.190 --> 0:05:34.850 and wildlife, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.900 it will take their due effect. You know, everyone has 0:05:37.900 --> 0:05:40.350 this biophilia element within them 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.880 and they connect very well. Of course. Later on, as 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.219 I get older, I'm in a position where I can 0:05:46.220 --> 0:05:51.190 influence scenarios which are not directly connected. So for education 0:05:51.190 --> 0:05:54.170 there are plenty of avenues to be part of and 0:05:54.170 --> 0:05:57.730 you can inject your specific expertise and then working groups. 0:05:57.730 --> 0:05:59.960 I work with colleagues who were scattered 0:06:00.140 --> 0:06:01.550 all doing their own thing 0:06:01.740 --> 0:06:04.300 to rescue wildlife or to educate people. And then as 0:06:04.300 --> 0:06:08.570 we come together and synergize there was also an increasing 0:06:08.570 --> 0:06:11.780 interest and appetite for these things by the public, the 0:06:11.779 --> 0:06:15.190 government's manner of addressing all of these kept getting more 0:06:15.190 --> 0:06:18.440 and more sophisticated. So in fact now when a volunteer 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.700 comes to me, I point them to the impact web 0:06:20.700 --> 0:06:21.560 page 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:25.370 and we've collaborated impacts on certain schemes. So as long 0:06:25.370 --> 0:06:27.950 as you toss them into the pool there's plenty of 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:32.789 opportunities and eventually will meet the space is still quite smaller. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.409 If you want to make comparisons f one like 200,000 0:06:36.410 --> 0:06:40.339 people that we can ping dot was 20,000. And then 0:06:40.339 --> 0:06:42.160 climate change rally was 2000. 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:46.760 Of course. Then my instagram influences maybe about 20. 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.029 So as you spend time in the field, you look 0:06:50.029 --> 0:06:54.420 to wherever you can provide partnership. What has been quite 0:06:54.430 --> 0:06:57.820 extraordinary is in the past two decades or three decades, 0:06:57.830 --> 0:07:03.400 the interest has simply heightened. So certain years on Earth 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:04.360 day weekend, 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.030 I just give talks. It's every day there's an appointment 0:07:08.029 --> 0:07:08.660 to go to 0:07:08.740 --> 0:07:12.910 until I'm exhausted. Now during covid it's diversified. Just came 0:07:12.910 --> 0:07:17.050 from tree planting. We are recording this program and there's 0:07:17.060 --> 0:07:19.660 youth programs which are going on. So 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.520 when you have these expertise and it's really kind of niche, 0:07:23.530 --> 0:07:27.000 then you go and find partners, whoever's interested and then 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:28.570 they can amplify your reach. 0:07:28.580 --> 0:07:31.740 You've been deeply involved and you said a leading environmental 0:07:31.740 --> 0:07:36.570 organization and events, climate activism seems to be in your blood. 0:07:36.570 --> 0:07:38.950 And your D. N. A. As one of the pioneers 0:07:38.950 --> 0:07:39.960 give us a sense of 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.600 how far this movement has come grown 0:07:43.950 --> 0:07:46.040 and changed. It must have been quite different from when 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:46.660 you started. 0:07:47.140 --> 0:07:50.410 Yeah, I guess there are two elements. One is this 0:07:50.410 --> 0:07:53.150 great extinction that we are seeing in our time. So 0:07:53.150 --> 0:07:55.660 that's what occupied me as a biologist 0:07:56.040 --> 0:08:00.340 is the sixth great extinction on the planet. And as 0:08:00.340 --> 0:08:04.390 I cycled around Singapore, I could see land use change 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:09.110 and it's very dramatic very fast. So that personal motivation 0:08:09.110 --> 0:08:12.960 came from the biopsy sector. We are losing forests, 0:08:13.140 --> 0:08:15.190 not just in Singapore. Everything you see in Singapore is 0:08:15.190 --> 0:08:16.950 reflected in Southeast Asia and the world. 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:22.550 So that fueled our desire to share what we had, 0:08:22.940 --> 0:08:25.360 which was worth protecting and what you can do about 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:30.590 it with the larger masses. But then sustainability, climate change 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.130 sort of raised and took over. It became now a 0:08:33.130 --> 0:08:37.510 predominant issue. So then we hook our cause onto that 0:08:37.510 --> 0:08:41.050 because the biodiversity loss by the sea conservation is a 0:08:41.050 --> 0:08:42.349 subset of 0:08:42.540 --> 0:08:47.800 Having a sustainable future. So the push from sustainability exemplified 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:52.670 by Singapore's Green Plan 2030 where you see five ministries 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.170 or getting into the act. So we're not just going 0:08:55.170 --> 0:08:58.130 to think about how we recycle plastic, but also what 0:08:58.130 --> 0:08:59.849 we do about green financing. 0:08:59.940 --> 0:09:03.609 It's quite holistic. So that movement has taken on a 0:09:03.610 --> 0:09:06.260 very different force. It's very powerful force 0:09:06.340 --> 0:09:08.830 and we in the sector got to make sure we 0:09:08.830 --> 0:09:09.459 are part of it 0:09:10.140 --> 0:09:12.200 when we think about extinction and most of us probably 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.940 imagine Armageddon and the dinosaurs being swiped out by the 0:09:15.940 --> 0:09:18.940 rain of asteroids or volcanic eruptions. But could you paint 0:09:18.940 --> 0:09:21.090 a picture for us like what this would have looked 0:09:21.090 --> 0:09:24.350 like for Singapore and Asia and how optimistic are you 0:09:24.350 --> 0:09:25.160 about this fight 0:09:25.540 --> 0:09:29.450 Iran 65 million years ago. There's great extinctions, mammals which 0:09:29.450 --> 0:09:34.110 were really tiny, then begin to dominate. So that periodic 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:35.260 disappearance 0:09:35.740 --> 0:09:37.860 is something we are seeing 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:42.760 today. Except that the force is not a meteor or 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:43.849 climate change, it's 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.200 actually just action of men. And you can see that 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.860 locally as well, not just regionally or globally. 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:56.130 So in Singapore growing up, I've seen many spaces disappear 0:09:56.140 --> 0:10:00.250 and then action by originally the colonial government to maintain 0:10:00.250 --> 0:10:04.160 a catchment and then subsequently independent Singapore to set aside 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:08.340 certain spaces has actually seen an improvement. So we are 0:10:08.350 --> 0:10:10.260 actually better shape than we used to be. 0:10:10.540 --> 0:10:13.050 But still there's going to be lost as the land 0:10:13.050 --> 0:10:16.449 bank is used for various purposes of society. 0:10:16.540 --> 0:10:21.280 And so the tension is there still but massive extinctions 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.510 that could have happened happened. And then we are dealing 0:10:24.510 --> 0:10:28.360 with how to restore and mitigate for current biodiversity. 0:10:28.740 --> 0:10:31.970 Our job is to make sure it's not silent forest. 0:10:31.980 --> 0:10:35.060 So there's poaching pressure in various places. So you can't 0:10:35.059 --> 0:10:37.940 even hear the birds sing in Singapore. At least we 0:10:37.940 --> 0:10:42.260 don't have issues of poaching. And so animals like the pangolin. 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.770 The straw hit the boo boo, the hornbills that you see, right, 0:10:45.770 --> 0:10:49.540 these are in serious threat regionally. But in Singapore, they 0:10:49.540 --> 0:10:52.430 can flourish so that they turn up in En us. 0:10:52.429 --> 0:10:53.459 You know, it's crazy 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:55.630 when I was a student, Oh you'd have to go 0:10:55.630 --> 0:10:57.990 to the forest. Be very patient. And then, oh, you 0:10:57.990 --> 0:11:01.000 might have a glimpse of a pangolin or a hornbill. Right? 0:11:01.010 --> 0:11:04.130 And now they're turning up on campus. So it means 0:11:04.130 --> 0:11:07.730 that in the areas we've protected, they're doing well and 0:11:07.730 --> 0:11:10.670 now they're trying to find spaces outside and then we're 0:11:10.670 --> 0:11:12.950 trying to figure out how well can we accommodate them. 0:11:13.540 --> 0:11:17.059 This generation is lucky in that although we've lost a 0:11:17.059 --> 0:11:20.150 lot of things, there's a lot of restoration. There's a 0:11:20.150 --> 0:11:24.650 lot of reflection on how we deal with land and 0:11:24.650 --> 0:11:27.970 government is responsive and they're inviting in for dialogue. So 0:11:27.980 --> 0:11:30.840 it's actually a good time to have a feeling for 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:31.450 nature 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.849 and be able to contribute towards its conservation. 0:11:35.340 --> 0:11:38.370 Let's talk about some of the work, you've been involved in, 0:11:38.540 --> 0:11:42.599 the work milestone event. I guess a case could be, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.890 you're part of the 2001 petition to protect Chek jawa 0:11:46.900 --> 0:11:49.640 and Polo you been, which was a historic example of 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.610 how activism can work to influence major decisions and tell 0:11:53.610 --> 0:11:54.560 us why this was 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.250 an important part of the Singapore story. 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:03.100 The Singapore public was not aware of the environmental costs 0:12:03.110 --> 0:12:04.050 of our lifestyle 0:12:04.540 --> 0:12:08.219 that began to change show at check java in 2001. 0:12:08.230 --> 0:12:11.190 Well I knew how to make a web page. I 0:12:11.190 --> 0:12:14.500 just knew about five or six. Html commands. And then 0:12:14.500 --> 0:12:17.240 we just said there's a tour, you can come and 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.450 people were searching the web. Not so much social media 0:12:20.450 --> 0:12:22.890 right at the time. But the web and they came 0:12:22.900 --> 0:12:25.450 and their interests surprised us. 0:12:25.740 --> 0:12:29.410 Previously. We were resigned to the fact that everyone was 0:12:29.410 --> 0:12:32.490 wrapped up with the 5Cs. So if you go to 0:12:33.010 --> 0:12:37.359 in the morning, it's dead quiet. Very nice actually. Right. 0:12:37.370 --> 0:12:40.900 But that would dramatically change in the 2000 and check. 0:12:40.900 --> 0:12:44.360 Java seems to be a very iconic example of that change. 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.380 So when we told people, okay, you can come, you 0:12:46.380 --> 0:12:47.760 can see these kind of creatures. 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.480 They came in the hundreds and actually it freaked us 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:54.740 out because we're having to do coordination of groups. You 0:12:54.750 --> 0:12:58.349 often see me in an orange cap and that orange 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.990 was so that I could see my volunteer guides on 0:13:00.990 --> 0:13:04.030 the landscape and if I need to run an evacuation 0:13:04.030 --> 0:13:05.660 because of lightning threat, 0:13:05.740 --> 0:13:08.050 then I could coordinate. So 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.230 that really blew our minds that people were so interested. 0:13:11.230 --> 0:13:13.860 They come all the way to change. I take the ferry, 0:13:13.870 --> 0:13:17.040 take the van and then they were all in improper footwear. 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:22.069 And they was fascinated were like, wow, this is very different. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.270 And so we made sure the government was aware of it. 0:13:24.270 --> 0:13:27.459 We took video and photos and we shared reports 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.360 and then independently the government said, hey, this is important, 0:13:31.740 --> 0:13:35.479 This is people actually connecting with the land and they 0:13:35.490 --> 0:13:39.150 reversed the decision for reclamation that we were resigned to. 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.490 We're quite shocked. So first they said, okay, we're gonna 0:13:41.490 --> 0:13:43.650 keep check java. Then later on they say no we're 0:13:43.650 --> 0:13:45.059 gonna keep all of pull out open 0:13:45.540 --> 0:13:48.110 And so the pullout bin that I take my students 0:13:48.110 --> 0:13:52.010 to today is actually in a much healthier state than 0:13:52.010 --> 0:13:54.290 it was in the past when there was a lot 0:13:54.290 --> 0:13:57.349 of quarrying. There were 2000 people on the island. It's 0:13:57.350 --> 0:14:01.220 now actually like a nature paradise. It's quite beat up 0:14:01.230 --> 0:14:03.450 because of its history of land use 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.660 but because it's been left alone and enhanced, 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.319 my students are simply amazed when they go we make 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.830 sure their binoculars and when they are walking in you 0:14:12.830 --> 0:14:15.460 can already hear all the bird calls. You know 0:14:15.940 --> 0:14:22.690 does this idea of a livable city and it includes 0:14:22.700 --> 0:14:24.360 having nature present. 0:14:24.740 --> 0:14:28.000 Not in a cosmetic way but in a railway. So 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.590 you have forest reserves, you have nature parks and then 0:14:31.590 --> 0:14:35.400 you have greenway's right. So if these are all interlink 0:14:35.410 --> 0:14:38.260 then the kind of fauna you don't expect to see 0:14:38.260 --> 0:14:41.350 at the doorstep turns up there passing by as they 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:42.950 reach a larger fragment. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.060 So connectivity in built up areas 0:14:46.140 --> 0:14:49.400 with greenery within the built up area to support it 0:14:49.410 --> 0:14:52.830 is the reason why I'm seeing strong and red jungle 0:14:52.830 --> 0:14:56.530 fowl and authors in the US which I never imagined 0:14:56.530 --> 0:15:00.850 would happen. So how we connect things. Everyone is going 0:15:00.850 --> 0:15:02.609 to do a reading. It's not just the nature of 0:15:02.610 --> 0:15:04.950 people we provide the fundamental information right? 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.320 So it's the architects and the engineers and the land 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:09.560 use allocation that 0:15:09.740 --> 0:15:11.060 needs to integrate this? 0:15:11.540 --> 0:15:13.960 We're going for a show break. We'll be right back. 0:15:14.340 --> 0:15:17.920 Hi, my name is Sarah Khaldi and I'm the host 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.020 of a new podcast called Money talks. Yes, we will 0:15:21.020 --> 0:15:23.680 be talking about money but more than that, we'll also 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.790 be talking about life, personal choices, lucky breaks and how 0:15:27.790 --> 0:15:30.960 money is the thread running through it all. So look 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.860 out for our episodes wherever you get your podcasts. 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.300 I'm sure there's no secret of course to the challenges 0:15:39.300 --> 0:15:42.859 of activism, pushing for policy change, trying to motivate others 0:15:42.870 --> 0:15:46.230 dealing with critics or naysayers. What were the hardest ones 0:15:46.230 --> 0:15:48.890 that you had to deal with and has that changed 0:15:48.900 --> 0:15:49.859 gotten better? 0:15:50.540 --> 0:15:54.650 Yeah, if a livable city is not on the table 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.260 then you're beating your head against a brick wall. 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.540 So the nature people are used to rejection in the 0:16:00.540 --> 0:16:03.280 80s and the 90s. I mean there are plans which 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.830 are submitted that probably went to the shredding machine immediately. 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.570 But you keep trying because the landscape change. The people 0:16:09.570 --> 0:16:12.840 are dealing with may change, they may get educated locally, 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.260 they make it educated by what they see overseas. 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.050 And so you keep talking and interacting 0:16:19.140 --> 0:16:21.150 and there's a general shift. 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.460 It's not in a perfect state by any chance today. 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.150 So then you decide what your role is? Where do 0:16:28.150 --> 0:16:32.290 you want to project ideas? Are you shouting on the streets? 0:16:32.300 --> 0:16:37.650 Are you inside a room in private, restricted dialogue. Do 0:16:37.650 --> 0:16:40.280 you want to write openly in blocks? So there are 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:41.660 various mechanisms 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.840 you have to decide which niche am I going to 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:49.450 fill in? Nothing was achieved without a large number of 0:16:49.450 --> 0:16:53.780 people operating from their various spaces and then collectively it 0:16:53.780 --> 0:16:56.690 comes along. So the important message from that is that 0:16:56.700 --> 0:17:00.800 anything you do individually will get amplified. So the thing 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.260 is for us to try and do something 0:17:03.540 --> 0:17:06.310 you talked about different mechanisms but when you look at 0:17:06.310 --> 0:17:07.560 climate activism 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.350 it continues to evolve in a young activist or championing 0:17:11.350 --> 0:17:15.680 new models and tactics of activism. Social media of course 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.430 is certainly playing a big part in raising awareness and 0:17:18.430 --> 0:17:20.270 inspiring greater action nowadays. 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.790 What are your thoughts on digital activism? Is it as 0:17:23.790 --> 0:17:27.580 important as rolling up our sleeves and getting our hands 0:17:27.580 --> 0:17:28.850 dirty in the real world. 0:17:29.340 --> 0:17:33.359 For sure because digital activism raises public awareness. 0:17:33.740 --> 0:17:37.570 So then climate change activists at school who decides let's 0:17:37.570 --> 0:17:40.760 take simple action might get completely ignored 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.870 or the ground might be softer and said, okay I've 0:17:43.869 --> 0:17:46.189 heard about these things. If you can show me the 0:17:46.190 --> 0:17:49.109 way we don't mind giving you some support so that 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:54.830 environment has definitely changed in terms of familiarity with concepts. 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.670 A deep understanding is hard to achieve just from digital activism. 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.040 A subset will take it up, read the details and 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:03.550 be highly functional, but 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.780 the majority will just get exposure. But then what happens 0:18:07.780 --> 0:18:13.850 is the exposed public more supportive of activists who decide 0:18:13.859 --> 0:18:15.620 to take some kind of action 0:18:15.630 --> 0:18:19.899 because I recently had a conversation with an indian water conservationist, 0:18:19.910 --> 0:18:25.800 Arun Krishnamurthy, he said there's just too many desktop conservationists 0:18:25.810 --> 0:18:28.770 and not enough true activists in the field 0:18:29.340 --> 0:18:31.429 as a person who has been both active on the 0:18:31.430 --> 0:18:33.129 ground and online. 0:18:33.540 --> 0:18:35.889 When you look at the local activism scene, would you 0:18:35.890 --> 0:18:36.500 agree 0:18:36.510 --> 0:18:40.760 local activism is usually they roll up their sleeves and 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.160 then they go and charge at windmills. I mean it's 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:43.770 tough work, 0:18:44.140 --> 0:18:47.340 the environment is not supportive. So mostly they have the 0:18:47.340 --> 0:18:51.760 experience on the ground. Then they know that just doing 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.659 stuff on the ground may reach a small select audience. 0:18:55.670 --> 0:18:59.030 So to amplify their reach, then they turn to the 0:18:59.030 --> 0:19:02.189 digital interface. So it's more a case of they're doing 0:19:02.190 --> 0:19:05.770 something and then they add in the digital interfaces. 0:19:05.940 --> 0:19:08.430 Now some people will find that hole and getting some 0:19:08.430 --> 0:19:12.280 kind of traction, then they may focus more time on 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.070 communication on a digital interface. But if you talk to 0:19:16.070 --> 0:19:18.500 them they are connected to a network of people who 0:19:18.500 --> 0:19:19.350 try things. 0:19:19.740 --> 0:19:22.540 There's something that is worth mentioning is that there are 0:19:22.540 --> 0:19:26.219 two different threads, there's a nature scene and there's an 0:19:26.230 --> 0:19:27.660 environmental scene. 0:19:28.140 --> 0:19:30.760 The nature scene are people who look at wildlife that's 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.369 found in our green areas and then they try and 0:19:33.369 --> 0:19:36.440 bring people to realize it's there tend to be very 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:40.590 strong in education for the environment seen, they're very strong 0:19:40.590 --> 0:19:44.210 in application. So they focus on the big picture but 0:19:44.210 --> 0:19:46.700 bring it down to the simple action that you can do. 0:19:46.710 --> 0:19:49.170 So that group of people 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:53.240 I would say is maybe around a decade old and 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:57.340 they are phenomenal. They're really phenomenal. So they, unlike the 0:19:57.340 --> 0:20:02.070 nature groups which had maybe a stronger association, stronger interaction 0:20:02.070 --> 0:20:05.859 with government through em parks, especially the environment groups were 0:20:05.869 --> 0:20:07.060 on their own. 0:20:07.540 --> 0:20:11.659 But because of that, they really got themselves organized and 0:20:11.660 --> 0:20:15.280 they turned up at a conference of parties nor Latrina 0:20:15.290 --> 0:20:18.490 even was the youth representative of the world. 0:20:18.500 --> 0:20:19.460 My name is last 0:20:19.460 --> 0:20:21.869 rena, I'm from Singapore and I have the honor of 0:20:21.869 --> 0:20:23.240 speaking on behalf of the 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:24.550 youth constituency. 0:20:27.940 --> 0:20:32.750 So their understanding of political mechanisms was I felt superior 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:36.810 and because they were not having maybe enough people listening, 0:20:36.820 --> 0:20:38.869 they took it all the way to the global scene. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.060 Once I sat down with them, we organized, what do 0:20:42.060 --> 0:20:44.880 we call it? It was acts of love. So that 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:45.360 means 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.160 You see someone who's wrapping a donut 10 times 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:51.760 and you're a customer and then you'll say, hey, you know, 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.560 I'm your customer and actually just rap one time can 0:20:54.570 --> 0:20:57.840 now the impact of that can be very high. But 0:20:57.850 --> 0:21:01.090 now that relationship has changed now we have a ministry 0:21:01.090 --> 0:21:04.260 of sustainability and Environment and the engagement level is quite 0:21:04.260 --> 0:21:07.650 high and these activists are being tapped for the potential 0:21:07.650 --> 0:21:09.850 that they have towards solution ng, 0:21:09.940 --> 0:21:13.760