Speaker 1: This
Speaker 2: is a C N A
Speaker 1: podcast.
Speaker 1: Hi welcome back to the climate conversations. We start a
Speaker 1: brand new season with me julie you
Speaker 1: during the day. I present the flagship morning show ASIA
Speaker 1: first on C. N. A. And as part of my work,
Speaker 1: I've been reporting on climate change related stories from doomsday predictions,
Speaker 1: the climate catastrophes around the world almost on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: And at times the challenges just didn't feel all that
Speaker 1: personal to me,
Speaker 1: Perhaps because climate change is invisible, slow moving and can
Speaker 1: feel so far away, especially here in Singapore where we
Speaker 1: are spared much of the effects of climate change currently.
Speaker 1: But recently I was given the chance to produce a
Speaker 1: 12 part series on sustainability
Speaker 1: and had a chance to talk to amazing eco heroes,
Speaker 1: visited companies focused on delivering brilliant ideas and solutions for
Speaker 1: a greener planet and also looked at ways that each
Speaker 1: of us can do to fight climate change. I was
Speaker 1: deeply inspired to delve into these issues and I'm certainly
Speaker 1: looking forward to taking you on this journey with me
Speaker 1: to learn from the people who are in the thick
Speaker 1: of things, the people who used their time,
Speaker 1: their effort and money to do their part to make
Speaker 1: a difference and maybe like me, you'll be inspired as
Speaker 1: well
Speaker 1: Today we welcome someone who was knee deep in this
Speaker 1: space even before climate activism became a buzzword made famous
Speaker 1: of course by a young Swedish teenager.
Speaker 1: This is all wrong.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be up here,
Speaker 1: I should be back in school on the other side
Speaker 1: of the ocean.
Speaker 1: Yet you all come to us, young people for hope
Speaker 1: how dare you
Speaker 1: and that of course was 16 year old Greta to
Speaker 1: Hamburg addressing world leaders at the U. N. Climate action
Speaker 1: summit and since then she has become a social media
Speaker 1: force and the times 2019 person of the year,
Speaker 1: her powerful words also demonstrate how climate change conversations are
Speaker 1: often set up to pit the young against the old.
Speaker 1: After all. The common narrative is that climate change is
Speaker 1: a problem that previous generations have created and which is
Speaker 1: now dumped onto current and future generations to deal with.
Speaker 1: And also activism
Speaker 1: is often seen as a pursuit for younger people, the
Speaker 1: ones who have higher stakes in the future of the planet.
Speaker 1: So is there still a place in the climate scene
Speaker 1: for older activists? What can we learn from them who
Speaker 1: jumped aboard a green bandwagon way before it became fashionable.
Speaker 1: My guest today is N Siva Soc, a climate activist
Speaker 1: who has been immersed in mangroves and wildlife for research,
Speaker 1: education and conservation at the National University of Singapore since
Speaker 1: the late 19 eighties and as one of the earliest
Speaker 1: adopters of eco blogging in Singapore.
Speaker 1: He has contributed his expertise to numerous wildlife conservation communities
Speaker 1: and also inspired many around him to support the cause.
Speaker 1: Siva welcome Good to see you.
Speaker 1: Before we start, I couldn't help but notice the nickname
Speaker 1: you use online. The otter man,
Speaker 1: I guess we ought to know why that's your nickname.
Speaker 1: Tell me the story behind it because I really do
Speaker 1: not see the resemblance.
Speaker 2: Well my friends will contest it. There's a photo of
Speaker 2: me on the other side by side and they say
Speaker 2: okay it's really close. But really it came about in
Speaker 2: a time when people were really unaware about nature in Singapore.
Speaker 2: So when I started doing my auto work also was
Speaker 2: giving talks about mangroves and wildlife and having a monocle
Speaker 2: is really useful. People get excited. They are curious
Speaker 2: and of course the photographs I use, my friends photographs,
Speaker 2: they take better photos and that really wild audiences everywhere
Speaker 2: in schools, in corporate boardrooms overseas. So that was meant
Speaker 2: to mobilize people to realize we do have things worth
Speaker 2: protecting
Speaker 2: right at the doorstep and to pay a little bit
Speaker 2: more attention.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Otters. I mean I'm fascinated by them too because
Speaker 1: how they just integrate into urban space and pop up
Speaker 1: here and there and rush hour traffic and condominium pools.
Speaker 1: But let's start with a little background about the work
Speaker 1: you do. You wear many hats as a senior lecturer
Speaker 1: at the En US Biological Sciences,
Speaker 1: the Director of studies at Ridgeview residential college and
Speaker 1: a research associate in the lee kong chian natural history museum.
Speaker 1: Just to name a few. You've also been heavily involved
Speaker 1: in many wildlife conservation groups, some of which you are
Speaker 1: even the founder of
Speaker 1: what drives you in all these activities. Do you see
Speaker 1: them as a separate efforts or do they all form
Speaker 1: part of your passion for conservation and wildlife.
Speaker 2: So Singapore is a highly urbanized city, it's a capitalist
Speaker 2: based economy. So the nature of such residents in such
Speaker 2: cities is they will become divorced from nature and you'll
Speaker 2: see it in the public, you'll see it in policymakers
Speaker 2: and you'll see it even in students. So
Speaker 2: it's such a big mountain to climb.
Speaker 2: So you apply yourself to any and every opportunity now
Speaker 2: in the 80s no one was interested. So you would
Speaker 2: have to fight your way in and once they hear
Speaker 2: your stories then the images and the stories of nature
Speaker 2: and wildlife,
Speaker 2: it will take their due effect. You know, everyone has
Speaker 2: this biophilia element within them
Speaker 2: and they connect very well. Of course. Later on, as
Speaker 2: I get older, I'm in a position where I can
Speaker 2: influence scenarios which are not directly connected. So for education
Speaker 2: there are plenty of avenues to be part of and
Speaker 2: you can inject your specific expertise and then working groups.
Speaker 2: I work with colleagues who were scattered
Speaker 2: all doing their own thing
Speaker 2: to rescue wildlife or to educate people. And then as
Speaker 2: we come together and synergize there was also an increasing
Speaker 2: interest and appetite for these things by the public, the
Speaker 2: government's manner of addressing all of these kept getting more
Speaker 2: and more sophisticated. So in fact now when a volunteer
Speaker 2: comes to me, I point them to the impact web
Speaker 2: page
Speaker 2: and we've collaborated impacts on certain schemes. So as long
Speaker 2: as you toss them into the pool there's plenty of
Speaker 2: opportunities and eventually will meet the space is still quite smaller.
Speaker 2: If you want to make comparisons f one like 200,000
Speaker 2: people that we can ping dot was 20,000. And then
Speaker 2: climate change rally was 2000.
Speaker 2: Of course. Then my instagram influences maybe about 20.
Speaker 2: So as you spend time in the field, you look
Speaker 2: to wherever you can provide partnership. What has been quite
Speaker 2: extraordinary is in the past two decades or three decades,
Speaker 2: the interest has simply heightened. So certain years on Earth
Speaker 2: day weekend,
Speaker 2: I just give talks. It's every day there's an appointment
Speaker 2: to go to
Speaker 2: until I'm exhausted. Now during covid it's diversified. Just came
Speaker 2: from tree planting. We are recording this program and there's
Speaker 2: youth programs which are going on. So
Speaker 2: when you have these expertise and it's really kind of niche,
Speaker 2: then you go and find partners, whoever's interested and then
Speaker 2: they can amplify your reach.
Speaker 1: You've been deeply involved and you said a leading environmental
Speaker 1: organization and events, climate activism seems to be in your blood.
Speaker 1: And your D. N. A. As one of the pioneers
Speaker 1: give us a sense of
Speaker 1: how far this movement has come grown
Speaker 1: and changed. It must have been quite different from when
Speaker 1: you started.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess there are two elements. One is this
Speaker 2: great extinction that we are seeing in our time. So
Speaker 2: that's what occupied me as a biologist
Speaker 2: is the sixth great extinction on the planet. And as
Speaker 2: I cycled around Singapore, I could see land use change
Speaker 2: and it's very dramatic very fast. So that personal motivation
Speaker 2: came from the biopsy sector. We are losing forests,
Speaker 2: not just in Singapore. Everything you see in Singapore is
Speaker 2: reflected in Southeast Asia and the world.
Speaker 2: So that fueled our desire to share what we had,
Speaker 2: which was worth protecting and what you can do about
Speaker 2: it with the larger masses. But then sustainability, climate change
Speaker 2: sort of raised and took over. It became now a
Speaker 2: predominant issue. So then we hook our cause onto that
Speaker 2: because the biodiversity loss by the sea conservation is a
Speaker 2: subset of
Speaker 2: Having a sustainable future. So the push from sustainability exemplified
Speaker 2: by Singapore's Green Plan 2030 where you see five ministries
Speaker 2: or getting into the act. So we're not just going
Speaker 2: to think about how we recycle plastic, but also what
Speaker 2: we do about green financing.
Speaker 2: It's quite holistic. So that movement has taken on a
Speaker 2: very different force. It's very powerful force
Speaker 2: and we in the sector got to make sure we
Speaker 2: are part of it
Speaker 1: when we think about extinction and most of us probably
Speaker 1: imagine Armageddon and the dinosaurs being swiped out by the
Speaker 1: rain of asteroids or volcanic eruptions. But could you paint
Speaker 1: a picture for us like what this would have looked
Speaker 1: like for Singapore and Asia and how optimistic are you
Speaker 1: about this fight
Speaker 2: Iran 65 million years ago. There's great extinctions, mammals which
Speaker 2: were really tiny, then begin to dominate. So that periodic
Speaker 2: disappearance
Speaker 2: is something we are seeing
Speaker 2: today. Except that the force is not a meteor or
Speaker 2: climate change, it's
Speaker 2: actually just action of men. And you can see that
Speaker 2: locally as well, not just regionally or globally.
Speaker 2: So in Singapore growing up, I've seen many spaces disappear
Speaker 2: and then action by originally the colonial government to maintain
Speaker 2: a catchment and then subsequently independent Singapore to set aside
Speaker 2: certain spaces has actually seen an improvement. So we are
Speaker 2: actually better shape than we used to be.
Speaker 2: But still there's going to be lost as the land
Speaker 2: bank is used for various purposes of society.
Speaker 2: And so the tension is there still but massive extinctions
Speaker 2: that could have happened happened. And then we are dealing
Speaker 2: with how to restore and mitigate for current biodiversity.
Speaker 2: Our job is to make sure it's not silent forest.
Speaker 2: So there's poaching pressure in various places. So you can't
Speaker 2: even hear the birds sing in Singapore. At least we
Speaker 2: don't have issues of poaching. And so animals like the pangolin.
Speaker 2: The straw hit the boo boo, the hornbills that you see, right,
Speaker 2: these are in serious threat regionally. But in Singapore, they
Speaker 2: can flourish so that they turn up in En us.
Speaker 2: You know, it's crazy
Speaker 2: when I was a student, Oh you'd have to go
Speaker 2: to the forest. Be very patient. And then, oh, you
Speaker 2: might have a glimpse of a pangolin or a hornbill. Right?
Speaker 2: And now they're turning up on campus. So it means
Speaker 2: that in the areas we've protected, they're doing well and
Speaker 2: now they're trying to find spaces outside and then we're
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how well can we accommodate them.
Speaker 2: This generation is lucky in that although we've lost a
Speaker 2: lot of things, there's a lot of restoration. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of reflection on how we deal with land and
Speaker 2: government is responsive and they're inviting in for dialogue. So
Speaker 2: it's actually a good time to have a feeling for
Speaker 2: nature
Speaker 2: and be able to contribute towards its conservation.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the work, you've been involved in,
Speaker 1: the work milestone event. I guess a case could be,
Speaker 1: you're part of the 2001 petition to protect Chek jawa
Speaker 1: and Polo you been, which was a historic example of
Speaker 1: how activism can work to influence major decisions and tell
Speaker 1: us why this was
Speaker 1: an important part of the Singapore story.
Speaker 2: The Singapore public was not aware of the environmental costs
Speaker 2: of our lifestyle
Speaker 2: that began to change show at check java in 2001.
Speaker 2: Well I knew how to make a web page. I
Speaker 2: just knew about five or six. Html commands. And then
Speaker 2: we just said there's a tour, you can come and
Speaker 2: people were searching the web. Not so much social media
Speaker 2: right at the time. But the web and they came
Speaker 2: and their interests surprised us.
Speaker 2: Previously. We were resigned to the fact that everyone was
Speaker 2: wrapped up with the 5Cs. So if you go to
Speaker 2: in the morning, it's dead quiet. Very nice actually. Right.
Speaker 2: But that would dramatically change in the 2000 and check.
Speaker 2: Java seems to be a very iconic example of that change.
Speaker 2: So when we told people, okay, you can come, you
Speaker 2: can see these kind of creatures.
Speaker 2: They came in the hundreds and actually it freaked us
Speaker 2: out because we're having to do coordination of groups. You
Speaker 2: often see me in an orange cap and that orange
Speaker 2: was so that I could see my volunteer guides on
Speaker 2: the landscape and if I need to run an evacuation
Speaker 2: because of lightning threat,
Speaker 2: then I could coordinate. So
Speaker 2: that really blew our minds that people were so interested.
Speaker 2: They come all the way to change. I take the ferry,
Speaker 2: take the van and then they were all in improper footwear.
Speaker 2: And they was fascinated were like, wow, this is very different.
Speaker 2: And so we made sure the government was aware of it.
Speaker 2: We took video and photos and we shared reports
Speaker 2: and then independently the government said, hey, this is important,
Speaker 2: This is people actually connecting with the land and they
Speaker 2: reversed the decision for reclamation that we were resigned to.
Speaker 2: We're quite shocked. So first they said, okay, we're gonna
Speaker 2: keep check java. Then later on they say no we're
Speaker 2: gonna keep all of pull out open
Speaker 2: And so the pullout bin that I take my students
Speaker 2: to today is actually in a much healthier state than
Speaker 2: it was in the past when there was a lot
Speaker 2: of quarrying. There were 2000 people on the island. It's
Speaker 2: now actually like a nature paradise. It's quite beat up
Speaker 2: because of its history of land use
Speaker 2: but because it's been left alone and enhanced,
Speaker 2: my students are simply amazed when they go we make
Speaker 2: sure their binoculars and when they are walking in you
Speaker 2: can already hear all the bird calls. You know
Speaker 2: does this idea of a livable city and it includes
Speaker 2: having nature present.
Speaker 2: Not in a cosmetic way but in a railway. So
Speaker 2: you have forest reserves, you have nature parks and then
Speaker 2: you have greenway's right. So if these are all interlink
Speaker 2: then the kind of fauna you don't expect to see
Speaker 2: at the doorstep turns up there passing by as they
Speaker 2: reach a larger fragment.
Speaker 2: So connectivity in built up areas
Speaker 2: with greenery within the built up area to support it
Speaker 2: is the reason why I'm seeing strong and red jungle
Speaker 2: fowl and authors in the US which I never imagined
Speaker 2: would happen. So how we connect things. Everyone is going
Speaker 2: to do a reading. It's not just the nature of
Speaker 2: people we provide the fundamental information right?
Speaker 2: So it's the architects and the engineers and the land
Speaker 2: use allocation that
Speaker 2: needs to integrate this?
Speaker 1: We're going for a show break. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: Hi, my name is Sarah Khaldi and I'm the host
Speaker 1: of a new podcast called Money talks. Yes, we will
Speaker 1: be talking about money but more than that, we'll also
Speaker 1: be talking about life, personal choices, lucky breaks and how
Speaker 1: money is the thread running through it all. So look
Speaker 1: out for our episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's no secret of course to the challenges
Speaker 1: of activism, pushing for policy change, trying to motivate others
Speaker 1: dealing with critics or naysayers. What were the hardest ones
Speaker 1: that you had to deal with and has that changed
Speaker 1: gotten better?
Speaker 2: Yeah, if a livable city is not on the table
Speaker 2: then you're beating your head against a brick wall.
Speaker 2: So the nature people are used to rejection in the
Speaker 2: 80s and the 90s. I mean there are plans which
Speaker 2: are submitted that probably went to the shredding machine immediately.
Speaker 2: But you keep trying because the landscape change. The people
Speaker 2: are dealing with may change, they may get educated locally,
Speaker 2: they make it educated by what they see overseas.
Speaker 2: And so you keep talking and interacting
Speaker 2: and there's a general shift.
Speaker 2: It's not in a perfect state by any chance today.
Speaker 2: So then you decide what your role is? Where do
Speaker 2: you want to project ideas? Are you shouting on the streets?
Speaker 2: Are you inside a room in private, restricted dialogue. Do
Speaker 2: you want to write openly in blocks? So there are
Speaker 2: various mechanisms
Speaker 2: you have to decide which niche am I going to
Speaker 2: fill in? Nothing was achieved without a large number of
Speaker 2: people operating from their various spaces and then collectively it
Speaker 2: comes along. So the important message from that is that
Speaker 2: anything you do individually will get amplified. So the thing
Speaker 2: is for us to try and do something
Speaker 1: you talked about different mechanisms but when you look at
Speaker 1: climate activism
Speaker 1: it continues to evolve in a young activist or championing
Speaker 1: new models and tactics of activism. Social media of course
Speaker 1: is certainly playing a big part in raising awareness and
Speaker 1: inspiring greater action nowadays.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on digital activism? Is it as
Speaker 1: important as rolling up our sleeves and getting our hands
Speaker 1: dirty in the real world.
Speaker 2: For sure because digital activism raises public awareness.
Speaker 2: So then climate change activists at school who decides let's
Speaker 2: take simple action might get completely ignored
Speaker 2: or the ground might be softer and said, okay I've
Speaker 2: heard about these things. If you can show me the
Speaker 2: way we don't mind giving you some support so that
Speaker 2: environment has definitely changed in terms of familiarity with concepts.
Speaker 2: A deep understanding is hard to achieve just from digital activism.
Speaker 2: A subset will take it up, read the details and
Speaker 2: be highly functional, but
Speaker 2: the majority will just get exposure. But then what happens
Speaker 2: is the exposed public more supportive of activists who decide
Speaker 2: to take some kind of action
Speaker 1: because I recently had a conversation with an indian water conservationist,
Speaker 1: Arun Krishnamurthy, he said there's just too many desktop conservationists
Speaker 1: and not enough true activists in the field
Speaker 1: as a person who has been both active on the
Speaker 1: ground and online.
Speaker 1: When you look at the local activism scene, would you
Speaker 1: agree
Speaker 2: local activism is usually they roll up their sleeves and
Speaker 2: then they go and charge at windmills. I mean it's
Speaker 2: tough work,
Speaker 2: the environment is not supportive. So mostly they have the
Speaker 2: experience on the ground. Then they know that just doing
Speaker 2: stuff on the ground may reach a small select audience.
Speaker 2: So to amplify their reach, then they turn to the
Speaker 2: digital interface. So it's more a case of they're doing
Speaker 2: something and then they add in the digital interfaces.
Speaker 2: Now some people will find that hole and getting some
Speaker 2: kind of traction, then they may focus more time on
Speaker 2: communication on a digital interface. But if you talk to
Speaker 2: them they are connected to a network of people who
Speaker 2: try things.
Speaker 2: There's something that is worth mentioning is that there are
Speaker 2: two different threads, there's a nature scene and there's an
Speaker 2: environmental scene.
Speaker 2: The nature scene are people who look at wildlife that's
Speaker 2: found in our green areas and then they try and
Speaker 2: bring people to realize it's there tend to be very
Speaker 2: strong in education for the environment seen, they're very strong
Speaker 2: in application. So they focus on the big picture but
Speaker 2: bring it down to the simple action that you can do.
Speaker 2: So that group of people
Speaker 2: I would say is maybe around a decade old and
Speaker 2: they are phenomenal. They're really phenomenal. So they, unlike the
Speaker 2: nature groups which had maybe a stronger association, stronger interaction
Speaker 2: with government through em parks, especially the environment groups were
Speaker 2: on their own.
Speaker 2: But because of that, they really got themselves organized and
Speaker 2: they turned up at a conference of parties nor Latrina
Speaker 2: even was the youth representative of the world.
Speaker 1: My name is last
Speaker 2: rena, I'm from Singapore and I have the honor of
Speaker 2: speaking on behalf of the
Speaker 1: youth constituency.
Speaker 2: So their understanding of political mechanisms was I felt superior
Speaker 2: and because they were not having maybe enough people listening,
Speaker 2: they took it all the way to the global scene.
Speaker 2: Once I sat down with them, we organized, what do
Speaker 2: we call it? It was acts of love. So that
Speaker 2: means
Speaker 2: You see someone who's wrapping a donut 10 times
Speaker 2: and you're a customer and then you'll say, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm your customer and actually just rap one time can
Speaker 2: now the impact of that can be very high. But
Speaker 2: now that relationship has changed now we have a ministry
Speaker 2: of sustainability and Environment and the engagement level is quite
Speaker 2: high and these activists are being tapped for the potential
Speaker 2: that they have towards solution ng,
Speaker 2: it's not that the ministry environment wasn't doing anything. They
Speaker 2: were targeting like big picture, you know, so an incredible
Speaker 2: thing that happened was the extended producer responsibility act So
Speaker 2: around the world, everyone says, okay, you the individual, what
Speaker 2: are you doing? What burden are you presenting? And then
Speaker 2: the industry was free of any responsibility.
Speaker 2: But now people are saying, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: there's a social cost and environmental cost, that society is
Speaker 2: picking up the tab, you got to be part of it.
Speaker 2: And so extended producer responsibility spreading around the world, right?
Speaker 2: And in Singapore, we've passed the law already. So that
Speaker 2: was brilliant. But it's good that now there's greater cohesion
Speaker 2: between the ground and the ministry and with
Speaker 2: SGP 2030, right, I can't even keep up with the
Speaker 2: meetings whenever I'm invited, I said, have you heard of
Speaker 2: this person? Because they're young and energetic, they got energy
Speaker 2: and they're well read, you know, and when they address
Speaker 2: sustainability issues, they're really holistic.
Speaker 1: And speaking of young activists, we see young activists often
Speaker 1: at the forefront
Speaker 1: of the climate debate, they're more visible and the environment movement.
Speaker 1: And a survey showed that older generations are often accused
Speaker 1: of caring less about the climate than younger people like
Speaker 1: the gen Zs and millennials. What's your thought on that
Speaker 1: is
Speaker 1: age a factor in climate process? Or is this just
Speaker 1: an unfair stereotype?
Speaker 2: You know, I was at the funeral and then we're
Speaker 2: helping to clean up after the flowers will be disposed
Speaker 2: of naturally. Right? And then my aunt said, go through
Speaker 2: all of it and take out the little bits of
Speaker 2: plastic
Speaker 2: and I'm not talking about any of these topics. So
Speaker 2: that sensitivity to environment can be present in older generation.
Speaker 2: The people who are much older, they conserve resource use
Speaker 2: due to maybe lack of influence. So they're more careful
Speaker 2: about use of materials. So I inherited all these like,
Speaker 2: oh, you know, switch off the lights, right?
Speaker 2: Is something ingrained in us from young don't waste electricity,
Speaker 2: the kind of thing. So they have that outlook for
Speaker 2: food waste,
Speaker 2: for use of water use of electricity and that all
Speaker 2: contributes towards sustainability. So the modern movement is not something
Speaker 2: they will find very foreign, but then you have, I
Speaker 2: guess a layer that also infused in capitalism essentially that
Speaker 2: your mind is filled up with what you need to
Speaker 2: do at work
Speaker 2: and ignore everything else. And what you look forward conveniences.
Speaker 2: We didn't realize that we didn't have landfills anymore in Singapore.
Speaker 2: They were is filling up. It's not only going to
Speaker 2: last what 2030, 2025, we got to think about how
Speaker 2: much waste we're disposing. So I think there is a
Speaker 2: layer that focus on prosperity with convenience
Speaker 2: and so all these environmental issues, they didn't get exposure
Speaker 2: so much to it.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, we have limited water supply, but it's not
Speaker 2: very strong. So that generation, Yes, they will focus on
Speaker 2: something quite different. We are so used to convenient and
Speaker 2: in a fast paced lifestyle, we got to stop and
Speaker 2: think about things. So in your pantry or still
Speaker 2: everyone put any kind of ways, even the recycling bin.
Speaker 2: So we have to strategize how we get them to
Speaker 2: think before they throw because one coffee cup into the
Speaker 2: paper bin means your contractor will dispose it as rubbish,
Speaker 2: it doesn't get recycled. Right? So we see that everywhere
Speaker 2: in Singapore, there's a big struggle how to just recycle properly.
Speaker 2: And that means just slowing down and thinking.
Speaker 2: But we live in a very fast paced society with
Speaker 2: the younger generation. They get quite a lot of exposure
Speaker 2: to issues that they're familiar.
Speaker 2: But you live in fast paced society. I tell you
Speaker 2: climb one floor to throw your recycling. It's like what? Really?
Speaker 2: So we test our neighborhoods, we find out what's possible
Speaker 2: and then we slowly can improve recycling,
Speaker 2: reduce recycling contamination is heartbreaking when it happens siva
Speaker 1: And based on your experiences, how do you see climate
Speaker 1: activism evolving in years to come?
Speaker 2: Well, climate activism has really burst on the scene these
Speaker 2: past few years. Right?
Speaker 2: The way it's done by many youth groups now, they
Speaker 2: organize themselves, they write position papers, they are really well
Speaker 2: informed and then they address it to relevant authorities,
Speaker 2: authorities are interested to hear what young people have to say.
Speaker 2: So that's maturing, but can we reach targets which are
Speaker 2: meaningful
Speaker 2: and, you know, the moment Sgp 2030 was out. I
Speaker 2: think this series had a conversation with Winston child and
Speaker 2: he says, oh, it's not enough. So that's very dramatic.
Speaker 2: Right then the government company and said, hey look, it's
Speaker 2: an evolving document. If we have better methods, then we'll evolve.
Speaker 2: In fact, there have been updates since. So
Speaker 2: it's a more transparent discussion.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of hard truths that everyone has
Speaker 2: to look at divestments of your investment. So they're looking
Speaker 2: at specific action that has very big impact. It's hard
Speaker 2: to bring about change. But when everyone's trying, I feel
Speaker 2: more optimistic about it.
Speaker 1: What is your target then
Speaker 2: My personal target?
Speaker 2: Oh, for me, I always try to rethink what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: Whether it's the most effective use of what I should do,
Speaker 2: how to reach out to partners to amplify effect.
Speaker 2: But at the same time carry on the small actions
Speaker 2: that you do. This is reading week at the university.
Speaker 2: So I invited my class who has questions about conservation.
Speaker 2: You can ask me anything. So only three students to
Speaker 2: dogma and we had our full two hour session and
Speaker 2: I told them this conversation
Speaker 2: is as important as if there were 30 people, 100
Speaker 2: people
Speaker 2: because the ones who want to know what we can
Speaker 2: do better are coming for the conversation. So that's as
Speaker 2: important as going and engaging a large group of people
Speaker 2: somewhere else. And you find that a lot of the activists,
Speaker 2: they have this resilience.
Speaker 2: I've arranged things and I say, Hey, I think only
Speaker 2: like 10 people come. They say no, that's excellent. So
Speaker 2: to keep at it because when you engage and activate minds,
Speaker 2: you're hoping that people will exceed you
Speaker 2: for activists. It's quite funny. We went for some meeting
Speaker 2: and it's to do with Marine Little and I was
Speaker 2: like so excited, it's the first time we're having this
Speaker 2: big meeting, multiple entities were present and all that. They
Speaker 2: took down everything we had to say and say we'll
Speaker 2: get back to you and one of the young activists
Speaker 2: said
Speaker 2: so when will that be? Will it be next week?
Speaker 2: So the impatience of youth right, because they've heard these
Speaker 2: stories in their education then we want to see change immediately.
Speaker 2: I think it's a very important and valuable contribution to
Speaker 2: this whole activism scene where we're running out of time.
Speaker 2: So we need to act with greater urgency
Speaker 1: and to end off. What message do you have for
Speaker 1: our listeners. Perhaps
Speaker 1: one unshakable truth you've discovered and your decades of climate
Speaker 1: work
Speaker 2: just do something. Anything
Speaker 1: great message to end on. I must say, thank you
Speaker 1: very much for sharing your journey and your insight with us.
Speaker 1: Great to see you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Well we hope you enjoyed this episode of the climate
Speaker 1: conversations will fancy a juicy burger with no meat will
Speaker 1: join me next week as I talked to a plant
Speaker 1: based butcher and enticing meat lovers to reduce their carbon footprint.
Speaker 1: This episode was researched by ho painting. Our sound engineer
Speaker 1: is Danieli
Speaker 1: and the podcast editor is Christina robert. You've gotta refresh
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Speaker 1: The details are in our episode notes. Until next time.
Speaker 1: This is julie you.
Speaker 1: Mhm.