1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,430 Speaker 1: I say so, hey DEA and welcome back to another 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:03,619 Speaker 1: episode of clarity. 3 00:00:05,929 --> 00:00:07,849 Speaker 1: As you can tell, we are very happy and very sad, 4 00:00:07,860 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: happy because this is a brand new set, but sad 5 00:00:12,329 --> 00:00:14,310 Speaker 1: because it's our very first episode in the new set. 6 00:00:14,319 --> 00:00:16,628 Speaker 1: But Jemmy can't be here with us today. She's feeling 7 00:00:16,639 --> 00:00:18,950 Speaker 1: a little bit under the weather but today we have 8 00:00:18,959 --> 00:00:21,299 Speaker 1: a special guest and by special, I mean, very, very 9 00:00:21,309 --> 00:00:25,549 Speaker 1: special because she is the youngest member of Singapore's 14th 10 00:00:25,590 --> 00:00:29,860 Speaker 1: parliament representing Ang Mo Kio Grc. Let's give a warm 11 00:00:29,870 --> 00:00:30,549 Speaker 1: welcome to. 12 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,900 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. I was seeing that cushion smell very new, 13 00:00:36,299 --> 00:00:37,028 Speaker 1: the smell. 14 00:00:38,310 --> 00:00:39,290 Speaker 1: Tell our viewers 15 00:00:39,299 --> 00:00:40,049 Speaker 1: more about yourself. 16 00:00:40,060 --> 00:00:42,569 Speaker 2: Hi, everyone. My name is Nadia. I think as Hazel mentioned, 17 00:00:42,580 --> 00:00:45,669 Speaker 2: I currently serve as the youngest member of parliament here 18 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,950 Speaker 2: in Singapore as a parliamentary duties. I think other than 19 00:00:48,959 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 2: what you see as in parliament, sometimes in tiktok snippets, 20 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: we also do a lot of ground work in our constituencies. 21 00:00:55,529 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: I serve in Ang Mo Kio, which is actually even 22 00:00:57,409 --> 00:01:00,689 Speaker 2: though I'm the youngest, it's one of the oldest constituencies. 23 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:03,889 Speaker 2: So I have about 25% of my residents who are 24 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:06,790 Speaker 2: over 80 years old. Wow. But I, 25 00:01:06,913 --> 00:01:08,982 Speaker 2: I love the dynamic actually that has panned out. I mean, 26 00:01:08,992 --> 00:01:11,193 Speaker 2: you know, I really see them as parents and grandparents 27 00:01:11,203 --> 00:01:13,413 Speaker 2: and as much as you try to look after them, 28 00:01:13,422 --> 00:01:15,282 Speaker 2: you know, they also look after you. I'm very grateful. 29 00:01:15,292 --> 00:01:17,682 Speaker 2: So there's groundwork. We also look after the estate. So 30 00:01:17,693 --> 00:01:21,553 Speaker 2: all your town council complaints. Yes, we also you want 31 00:01:21,572 --> 00:01:24,402 Speaker 2: to start later. I take my notebook, I take my 32 00:01:25,142 --> 00:01:27,553 Speaker 2: I feel for you. Thank you. There must be so 33 00:01:27,563 --> 00:01:31,002 Speaker 2: many complaints coming here. Yes, let's not go there. But yeah, 34 00:01:31,013 --> 00:01:33,303 Speaker 2: we also play other roles. I mean, I also, you know, 35 00:01:33,313 --> 00:01:35,413 Speaker 2: as the youngest speak on different issues 36 00:01:35,515 --> 00:01:37,155 Speaker 2: close to the heart of many of our youth and 37 00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:40,136 Speaker 2: as a woman, which is why we're here today. And 38 00:01:40,146 --> 00:01:41,825 Speaker 2: as a minority, I mean, these are some of the 39 00:01:41,834 --> 00:01:44,856 Speaker 2: different issues that I speak about. She does everything 40 00:01:44,916 --> 00:01:45,356 Speaker 1: you wear so 41 00:01:45,365 --> 00:01:45,595 Speaker 2: many 42 00:01:45,606 --> 00:01:47,706 Speaker 1: hats. What got you started in the first place? 43 00:01:47,716 --> 00:01:50,835 Speaker 2: I mean, I've been volunteering since I was 15 and 44 00:01:50,846 --> 00:01:53,486 Speaker 2: I think, you know, my dad actually was affected during 45 00:01:53,496 --> 00:01:56,445 Speaker 2: the SARS period. So pre COVID, my dad used to 46 00:01:56,456 --> 00:01:58,935 Speaker 2: be in the airlines. He flew for 30 something years 47 00:01:59,106 --> 00:02:02,375 Speaker 2: and he and many of his batch were affected by 48 00:02:02,386 --> 00:02:04,015 Speaker 2: what happened during SARS. He was 49 00:02:04,119 --> 00:02:07,178 Speaker 2: so breadwinner at the time. And so for us, it 50 00:02:07,189 --> 00:02:10,597 Speaker 2: was quite a difference and I started working from quite 51 00:02:10,608 --> 00:02:13,779 Speaker 2: early on and without financial assistance. I wouldn't have been 52 00:02:13,788 --> 00:02:16,458 Speaker 2: able to complete whether it's my A levels or whether 53 00:02:16,468 --> 00:02:18,407 Speaker 2: it's uni, so a lot of things I'm very grateful for. 54 00:02:18,419 --> 00:02:20,248 Speaker 2: And so my mom always said, you know, you should 55 00:02:20,258 --> 00:02:23,699 Speaker 2: then sort of do something and contribute in whatever way 56 00:02:23,708 --> 00:02:26,708 Speaker 2: you can. So I volunteered since I was young. And 57 00:02:26,718 --> 00:02:30,018 Speaker 2: I think for me, I see it as a way 58 00:02:30,029 --> 00:02:32,669 Speaker 2: of continuing to serve and do work in the 59 00:02:32,722 --> 00:02:36,802 Speaker 2: community Prior to our batch of MP S, you mentioned parliament. 60 00:02:36,811 --> 00:02:41,332 Speaker 2: We've actually only had four Malay women in the history 61 00:02:41,341 --> 00:02:45,671 Speaker 2: of Singapore politics. I never knew that for so it's 62 00:02:45,681 --> 00:02:51,661 Speaker 2: former president Halima Dr Fatima Latif Dr Intan and Hau, 63 00:02:51,951 --> 00:02:55,061 Speaker 2: who currently is still serving as well. And then Maryam 64 00:02:55,501 --> 00:02:58,712 Speaker 2: and myself, we are the 5th and 6th. And I 65 00:02:58,722 --> 00:03:00,962 Speaker 2: think at the end of the day, we all bring 66 00:03:00,972 --> 00:03:01,222 Speaker 2: different 67 00:03:01,324 --> 00:03:03,684 Speaker 2: voices to the table. I mean, I felt that it 68 00:03:03,695 --> 00:03:07,103 Speaker 2: was something that when presented with this chance, I think 69 00:03:07,115 --> 00:03:10,445 Speaker 2: it was something that I thought, OK, I'm gonna take it, 70 00:03:10,455 --> 00:03:13,345 Speaker 2: do my best. And if I'm useful, I'll try. 71 00:03:14,633 --> 00:03:18,024 Speaker 1: Nadia. Here is like the epidemic of a woman who 72 00:03:18,035 --> 00:03:20,984 Speaker 1: has fought many battles like growing up being put in 73 00:03:21,065 --> 00:03:23,494 Speaker 1: a stressful condition. Your dad being the sole breadwinner and 74 00:03:23,505 --> 00:03:25,565 Speaker 1: to have that job taken away from him because of 75 00:03:25,574 --> 00:03:28,095 Speaker 1: the pandemic, right? Have you ever heard of this phrase? 76 00:03:28,195 --> 00:03:29,864 Speaker 1: Women can never win 77 00:03:30,889 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: but we disagree. I disagree. You disagree? 78 00:03:33,750 --> 00:03:34,509 Speaker 1: I disagree. 79 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:34,899 Speaker 2: OK? 80 00:03:34,910 --> 00:03:35,369 Speaker 1: Tell me 81 00:03:35,380 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: more. I feel like, especially in this day and age, 82 00:03:38,410 --> 00:03:41,130 Speaker 1: we have a lot of space and a lot of 83 00:03:41,139 --> 00:03:44,250 Speaker 1: grounds to fight for ourselves. I wouldn't say things are 84 00:03:44,259 --> 00:03:47,740 Speaker 1: the same if it's my mother or my grandmother's time. Yeah. 85 00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:50,970 Speaker 1: But for now I feel like we are able to 86 00:03:50,979 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: fight for ourselves. You know, I think 87 00:03:52,529 --> 00:03:52,679 Speaker 2: when 88 00:03:52,690 --> 00:03:55,059 Speaker 2: I think about women can never win, 89 00:03:55,410 --> 00:04:01,100 Speaker 2: I almost slightly agree. Only because I think we don't 90 00:04:01,110 --> 00:04:03,470 Speaker 2: allow ourselves to win because we always want more from 91 00:04:03,479 --> 00:04:08,039 Speaker 2: ourselves like we never feel like we've won. I mean, 92 00:04:08,050 --> 00:04:10,139 Speaker 2: you look at Nadia, right? And she wears so many hats. 93 00:04:10,149 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: She does so many things. I look at her and 94 00:04:12,009 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: I'm like, actually when you sleep, 95 00:04:15,059 --> 00:04:18,100 Speaker 2: do you have 36 hours in a day? I have 96 00:04:18,109 --> 00:04:22,149 Speaker 2: a time turner. She does so much, right? And you 97 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: wonder like, how is it that someone can do so 98 00:04:25,329 --> 00:04:27,529 Speaker 2: much and play so many roles? I mean, she's mommy 99 00:04:27,540 --> 00:04:33,529 Speaker 2: to be 30 weeks in? Thank you. Thank you. And 100 00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:36,489 Speaker 2: it just feels like, you know, you always look at 101 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:38,250 Speaker 2: someone else, you look at another woman and you just 102 00:04:38,260 --> 00:04:40,829 Speaker 2: always feel like how are you doing all this? Yeah. 103 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:41,850 Speaker 1: So you mentioned that you 104 00:04:42,376 --> 00:04:45,256 Speaker 1: women can never win. You disagree with this sentence? Why? So, 105 00:04:45,265 --> 00:04:48,395 Speaker 2: ok, so I think you both raised very valid points 106 00:04:48,406 --> 00:04:51,355 Speaker 2: and both that I agree with. I think one is 107 00:04:51,365 --> 00:04:53,776 Speaker 2: that we've come a long way and you know, many, 108 00:04:53,786 --> 00:04:55,726 Speaker 2: we stand on the shoulders of women who have come 109 00:04:55,735 --> 00:04:59,066 Speaker 2: before us and men also who have, you know, been allies. Yeah, 110 00:04:59,075 --> 00:05:02,605 Speaker 2: great champions who have also supported the building of this space. 111 00:05:02,615 --> 00:05:05,735 Speaker 2: And I think that's something that's really important to acknowledge. 112 00:05:05,746 --> 00:05:09,054 Speaker 2: But with this increased space is also 113 00:05:09,522 --> 00:05:13,462 Speaker 2: faced possibilities. And that's where I think what Azura said 114 00:05:13,471 --> 00:05:15,582 Speaker 2: comes in as well. That actually a lot of it 115 00:05:15,592 --> 00:05:20,022 Speaker 2: is beyond the societal expectations. It's the expectations that we 116 00:05:20,032 --> 00:05:24,601 Speaker 2: place on ourselves and sometimes it's just impossible buzz. I 117 00:05:24,611 --> 00:05:27,361 Speaker 2: was very blessed in my early career. I did corporate 118 00:05:27,372 --> 00:05:30,332 Speaker 2: M and A and I had this amazing lady boss 119 00:05:30,342 --> 00:05:32,782 Speaker 2: who said that, ok, at the end of the day, 120 00:05:32,791 --> 00:05:35,351 Speaker 2: you can have it all just maybe not all at 121 00:05:35,361 --> 00:05:36,221 Speaker 2: the same time. 122 00:05:38,269 --> 00:05:42,779 Speaker 2: And I think that's something that's really important to remember. 123 00:05:43,070 --> 00:05:45,700 Speaker 2: Um And look, I mean, everyone has different ways of 124 00:05:45,709 --> 00:05:47,988 Speaker 2: how they want to lead their lives. But I guess 125 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,109 Speaker 2: thinking about it from a career perspective since it's my 126 00:05:51,119 --> 00:05:53,738 Speaker 2: first boss. One thing that I used to share with 127 00:05:53,750 --> 00:05:57,010 Speaker 2: my juniors is if you print out a calendar, like 128 00:05:57,019 --> 00:05:59,209 Speaker 2: a monthly blank calendar and fill in your time, 129 00:05:59,325 --> 00:06:02,876 Speaker 2: I genuinely how you're spending it for a month. What's 130 00:06:02,885 --> 00:06:04,465 Speaker 2: important to you? Right? I mean, are you going to 131 00:06:04,476 --> 00:06:07,536 Speaker 2: the gym? Are you meeting up with your friends? Are 132 00:06:07,545 --> 00:06:10,946 Speaker 2: you going to church or are you how much time 133 00:06:11,156 --> 00:06:13,665 Speaker 2: in a day and all of these are different colors. 134 00:06:14,085 --> 00:06:15,216 Speaker 2: And then when you look at it at the end 135 00:06:15,226 --> 00:06:19,346 Speaker 2: of the month, you ask yourself, is this congruent with 136 00:06:19,395 --> 00:06:20,365 Speaker 2: how my, 137 00:06:20,842 --> 00:06:24,661 Speaker 2: my values I want to live my life. Because until 138 00:06:24,671 --> 00:06:28,752 Speaker 2: all that is congruent, I think it will always feel 139 00:06:28,761 --> 00:06:34,141 Speaker 2: like you are either lacking something, letting someone down, including 140 00:06:34,152 --> 00:06:38,752 Speaker 2: yourself or just not achieving any, you know, this impossible bar. 141 00:06:38,761 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: But that piece of paper and how you spend your 142 00:06:41,212 --> 00:06:41,630 Speaker 2: time 143 00:06:41,988 --> 00:06:46,329 Speaker 2: has to speak to what you want to achieve for yourself. 144 00:06:46,339 --> 00:06:49,149 Speaker 2: Shall we sit down after this and do a lot 145 00:06:49,170 --> 00:06:50,070 Speaker 2: of pink highlighters 146 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:52,890 Speaker 1: as Nadia was saying that I was actually thinking about 147 00:06:52,899 --> 00:06:56,690 Speaker 1: my own calendar like in the past month because in 148 00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: my smartphone, the calendars it comes with colors, right? What 149 00:06:59,850 --> 00:07:02,220 Speaker 1: is one color? Personal thing is another color. And I 150 00:07:02,230 --> 00:07:04,309 Speaker 1: find that most of them are filled with pink, which 151 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,859 Speaker 1: is work related events. And then I think about it 152 00:07:06,869 --> 00:07:08,450 Speaker 1: is this how I want to spend my life? Is 153 00:07:08,459 --> 00:07:09,529 Speaker 1: this my value 154 00:07:09,733 --> 00:07:12,342 Speaker 1: and my purpose in life at this point, I would 155 00:07:12,352 --> 00:07:14,532 Speaker 1: say yes, yes, because I won't want to have it 156 00:07:14,542 --> 00:07:18,713 Speaker 1: all in my career. But moving forward, maybe that should change. 157 00:07:18,722 --> 00:07:20,752 Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, I really want to call that 158 00:07:20,763 --> 00:07:22,542 Speaker 2: out because I think a lot of times we talk 159 00:07:22,553 --> 00:07:25,743 Speaker 2: about like work life balance and different people have different views. 160 00:07:25,752 --> 00:07:28,532 Speaker 2: There's no one right or wrong thing. But again, because 161 00:07:28,542 --> 00:07:31,722 Speaker 2: of my experience in legal practice, I realized very early 162 00:07:31,733 --> 00:07:34,192 Speaker 2: that I think it's more about integration. And when I 163 00:07:34,203 --> 00:07:37,233 Speaker 2: say integration, I don't mean that there's no bound, 164 00:07:37,946 --> 00:07:40,055 Speaker 2: you know, you know, like your employers calling you at 165 00:07:40,066 --> 00:07:42,055 Speaker 2: one am you have to pick up zoom call. OK. No, no, no, no, no, 166 00:07:42,066 --> 00:07:44,895 Speaker 2: that's not what I mean. Can we employ the Australian 167 00:07:44,906 --> 00:07:50,096 Speaker 2: rule to this? I think that you should have boundaries 168 00:07:50,305 --> 00:07:54,265 Speaker 2: but every person's boundaries will depend on you. And like 169 00:07:54,276 --> 00:07:56,476 Speaker 2: you said, right, that the truth is we spend so 170 00:07:56,485 --> 00:07:58,376 Speaker 2: much time at work. And for me, like it would 171 00:07:58,385 --> 00:08:02,605 Speaker 2: be impossible for work, whether my social impact work or 172 00:08:02,705 --> 00:08:04,855 Speaker 2: my work on the ground as an MP, 173 00:08:05,209 --> 00:08:07,660 Speaker 2: do not be part of my identity. I mean, I'm 174 00:08:07,670 --> 00:08:10,070 Speaker 2: sure work is part of your identity to some extent. 175 00:08:10,079 --> 00:08:12,980 Speaker 2: And that's why it goes back, I think to congruence 176 00:08:12,989 --> 00:08:16,470 Speaker 2: and you know, for different women at different times in 177 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,500 Speaker 2: their lives, different things take priority and it's a sliding scale, 178 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,929 Speaker 2: it can change. I mean, it doesn't mean that that's 179 00:08:22,940 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: what it is for ever. But I think we also 180 00:08:26,049 --> 00:08:32,619 Speaker 2: tend to shame women who either prioritize work or prioritize family. And, 181 00:08:32,723 --> 00:08:35,381 Speaker 2: and I don't think we should do that. You know, 182 00:08:35,393 --> 00:08:38,093 Speaker 2: I think everyone, first of all should be able to 183 00:08:38,102 --> 00:08:40,822 Speaker 2: choose what they want to do and what's important to them. 184 00:08:40,833 --> 00:08:43,543 Speaker 2: Very recently. I heard about the story of this woman 185 00:08:43,552 --> 00:08:46,602 Speaker 2: who was struggling basically with her life so she, I 186 00:08:46,612 --> 00:08:50,223 Speaker 2: believe was getting a divorce, was handling two kids on 187 00:08:50,232 --> 00:08:52,942 Speaker 2: her own. And at that time when she was still married, 188 00:08:52,953 --> 00:08:53,393 Speaker 2: I think she was, 189 00:08:53,466 --> 00:08:56,286 Speaker 2: she's like, not working or working part time. And now 190 00:08:56,296 --> 00:08:57,806 Speaker 2: that she was a single mother, she had to, you know, 191 00:08:57,815 --> 00:09:00,875 Speaker 2: sort it out. Um, she was trying to work but 192 00:09:00,885 --> 00:09:02,785 Speaker 2: at the same time she had two kids to handle 193 00:09:02,815 --> 00:09:05,366 Speaker 2: and then someone who was very close to her, kept 194 00:09:05,375 --> 00:09:08,885 Speaker 2: going on and on and on about just build your career. Like, 195 00:09:08,895 --> 00:09:11,596 Speaker 2: can you just not think about everything else and just 196 00:09:11,606 --> 00:09:13,926 Speaker 2: build your career? Not so easy? Yeah. 197 00:09:14,419 --> 00:09:17,479 Speaker 2: And I think that really hurt her because that may 198 00:09:17,489 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: be important to you. But right now it's the last 199 00:09:20,090 --> 00:09:22,479 Speaker 2: thing that I can do. But even if I wanted to, 200 00:09:22,489 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 2: it's the last thing I can do. Yeah. 201 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,630 Speaker 1: So a lot of times I feel like a lot 202 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 1: of career oriented women have to take a step back 203 00:09:29,609 --> 00:09:32,099 Speaker 1: when it comes to family like myself. I feel so 204 00:09:32,109 --> 00:09:34,659 Speaker 1: guilty when I cannot go home to visit my parents 205 00:09:34,669 --> 00:09:35,299 Speaker 1: at least once a 206 00:09:35,309 --> 00:09:35,718 Speaker 1: week. 207 00:09:38,809 --> 00:09:40,228 Speaker 2: I'll see you on Sunday. 208 00:09:41,570 --> 00:09:42,549 Speaker 1: Me too. Me. 209 00:09:43,409 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: But have you ever felt the stress and the pressure 210 00:09:45,969 --> 00:09:46,940 Speaker 1: to be a good 211 00:09:46,950 --> 00:09:47,599 Speaker 1: daughter? 212 00:09:47,609 --> 00:09:50,189 Speaker 2: Um And I think this goes back to what I 213 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,309 Speaker 2: was saying that, you know, I'm very blessed to have 214 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,010 Speaker 2: an amazing parents. You know, my mom and dad. Um 215 00:09:56,020 --> 00:09:58,949 Speaker 2: They really made me who I am today and you know, with, 216 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,789 Speaker 2: with my younger brother as well. So 217 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 2: the pressure doesn't come from them for myself or, you know, 218 00:10:06,090 --> 00:10:09,339 Speaker 2: I mean, there are comments like, you know, your daughter 219 00:10:09,349 --> 00:10:11,849 Speaker 2: very busy but you know, my my parents are really 220 00:10:11,859 --> 00:10:15,289 Speaker 2: wonderful about it and I think as the eldest child, 221 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,369 Speaker 2: you also kind of take on a lot of the 222 00:10:18,919 --> 00:10:25,059 Speaker 2: decision making, planning, sorting things out. So I, I do 223 00:10:25,070 --> 00:10:28,619 Speaker 2: think a lot of pressure comes from myself, you know, 224 00:10:28,630 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 2: wanting to make sure I have the time I have this, 225 00:10:32,330 --> 00:10:35,900 Speaker 2: I have that. So there was once when I was, 226 00:10:36,130 --> 00:10:38,260 Speaker 2: you know, I was in a certain job and 227 00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 2: I was earning not a lot of money. And at 228 00:10:41,330 --> 00:10:44,090 Speaker 2: that point, I made that decision because I wanted to 229 00:10:44,099 --> 00:10:47,690 Speaker 2: pursue that role. But at the same time, I also thought, ok, 230 00:10:47,700 --> 00:10:49,650 Speaker 2: maybe it will give me a bit more flexibility as 231 00:10:49,659 --> 00:10:53,669 Speaker 2: compared to corporate MN A. And so in that role, 232 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,289 Speaker 2: I remember I had the chance to bring my dad 233 00:10:56,299 --> 00:10:59,209 Speaker 2: for his cataract surgery and I could sit with him 234 00:10:59,219 --> 00:11:01,010 Speaker 2: and wait with him and 235 00:11:01,405 --> 00:11:03,736 Speaker 2: the whole thing, right, which I would not be able 236 00:11:03,745 --> 00:11:05,856 Speaker 2: to do if I was in my former role. I 237 00:11:05,866 --> 00:11:08,645 Speaker 2: was thinking to myself, ok, you know, I made the 238 00:11:08,655 --> 00:11:12,015 Speaker 2: right choice, right? I could accompany my dad and etcetera. 239 00:11:12,026 --> 00:11:14,616 Speaker 2: But then we got to the counter to make payment. 240 00:11:14,684 --> 00:11:17,116 Speaker 2: And because, you know, my dad is of the older generation, 241 00:11:17,125 --> 00:11:19,995 Speaker 2: he could get certain medical subsidies and the Polyclinic had 242 00:11:20,005 --> 00:11:23,556 Speaker 2: told him, ok, this is the amount of your cataract 243 00:11:23,565 --> 00:11:23,786 Speaker 2: surgery 244 00:11:24,041 --> 00:11:28,122 Speaker 2: and you get 50%. So the interpretation was that was 245 00:11:28,131 --> 00:11:30,531 Speaker 2: the total amount and the amount you pay will be half. 246 00:11:30,752 --> 00:11:33,702 Speaker 2: But when we went to the counter, they said that 247 00:11:33,711 --> 00:11:36,742 Speaker 2: this is the amount it's already half, it's already subsidized, 248 00:11:36,752 --> 00:11:40,502 Speaker 2: it's already, this is the, and I mean, it wasn't 249 00:11:40,511 --> 00:11:43,992 Speaker 2: a super huge amount but it was more than what 250 00:11:44,002 --> 00:11:46,401 Speaker 2: was in my bank account at that point in time. Right? 251 00:11:46,682 --> 00:11:49,021 Speaker 2: And I remember just thinking, oh, wait a minute, like 252 00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:51,901 Speaker 2: these are very real tradeoffs between, 253 00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:55,260 Speaker 2: I had the time to accompany my dad and do this. 254 00:11:55,270 --> 00:11:57,459 Speaker 2: But at the same time, financially, you had to take 255 00:11:57,469 --> 00:12:00,119 Speaker 2: a step back, you have to reassess. So again, it 256 00:12:00,130 --> 00:12:03,700 Speaker 2: goes back to I think what you can or need 257 00:12:03,710 --> 00:12:06,380 Speaker 2: to prioritize at that point in time and there's really 258 00:12:06,390 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 2: no right or wrong answer now that you're about to 259 00:12:09,510 --> 00:12:11,919 Speaker 2: become a mother yourself. Yes. 260 00:12:12,609 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: Have you thought about how things are going to change 261 00:12:15,849 --> 00:12:18,390 Speaker 2: or how your time management is going to change or 262 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,090 Speaker 2: what you're going to have to give up because it 263 00:12:20,099 --> 00:12:22,468 Speaker 2: must have crossed your mind. You know, I've been taking 264 00:12:22,479 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: care of people. Is it maybe time for me to 265 00:12:25,330 --> 00:12:28,750 Speaker 2: take care of my own child? You asked me very 266 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,549 Speaker 2: difficult questions. I mean, I think firstly, you know, the 267 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,169 Speaker 2: truth is that none of us go at this alone. We, 268 00:12:35,179 --> 00:12:37,969 Speaker 2: you know, have each have our own support systems, whatever 269 00:12:37,979 --> 00:12:41,010 Speaker 2: that might look like for different people. For some, it's your, 270 00:12:41,054 --> 00:12:45,395 Speaker 2: your closest oldest friends, for some. It's your grandma, your auntie, 271 00:12:45,405 --> 00:12:48,954 Speaker 2: your uncle, your parents, your husband, etcetera. So your partner, 272 00:12:48,965 --> 00:12:52,195 Speaker 2: it really depends. And I'm very grateful for the tribe 273 00:12:52,205 --> 00:12:54,294 Speaker 2: that I do have. So firstly, I recognize that it 274 00:12:54,304 --> 00:12:57,835 Speaker 2: won't be me alone doing this. I would like to 275 00:12:57,844 --> 00:13:00,275 Speaker 2: think that with a child, 276 00:13:01,049 --> 00:13:04,969 Speaker 2: a child adds to your life rather than take away 277 00:13:04,979 --> 00:13:08,829 Speaker 2: from it. And I hope to build that kind of, 278 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: you know, parent, child relationship, which does that. I think 279 00:13:11,650 --> 00:13:13,450 Speaker 2: a lot of young parents these days they do things 280 00:13:13,460 --> 00:13:15,340 Speaker 2: like take the kindergarten kid out for like 281 00:13:15,659 --> 00:13:18,830 Speaker 2: Bandung and then have a real conversation about, you know, 282 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,030 Speaker 2: I have another friend who used to call her son, 283 00:13:22,039 --> 00:13:24,150 Speaker 2: little man and that was just the way that she 284 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:28,390 Speaker 2: communicated and her life didn't totally change because she didn't 285 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: allow it to. Yeah, in the sense that it wasn't ok, 286 00:13:31,650 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 2: we can only go out in between this time and 287 00:13:34,090 --> 00:13:37,179 Speaker 2: this time and then we're very, you know, fixed about it. 288 00:13:37,409 --> 00:13:38,650 Speaker 2: So my husband and I have a lot of these 289 00:13:38,659 --> 00:13:41,189 Speaker 2: conversations about what we think it would be like or 290 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:41,390 Speaker 2: what 291 00:13:41,650 --> 00:13:44,010 Speaker 2: the kind of parents we hope to be. But at 292 00:13:44,020 --> 00:13:46,539 Speaker 2: the same time, I think it's very like some survive, 293 00:13:46,549 --> 00:13:48,419 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, at the end of the day, right. 294 00:13:48,429 --> 00:13:52,299 Speaker 2: Like you don't know for sure what it's going to 295 00:13:52,309 --> 00:13:57,380 Speaker 2: be like. And my sort of approach is take things 296 00:13:57,390 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 2: as it comes. I mean, you can have a plan 297 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,140 Speaker 2: but you change, change. I mean, you know, politics was 298 00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:06,429 Speaker 2: not on the card. So I see this as my 299 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:07,239 Speaker 2: five year plan 300 00:14:07,479 --> 00:14:12,059 Speaker 2: new and, and the, the other day got the best 301 00:14:12,070 --> 00:14:14,718 Speaker 2: of plants, I think. So, you know, you just roll 302 00:14:14,729 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 2: with the punches and you prepare as much as you can. 303 00:14:18,020 --> 00:14:20,789 Speaker 2: And baby's been very quiet so far, which I'm very 304 00:14:20,799 --> 00:14:25,070 Speaker 2: grateful for. So don't come out so early, but we 305 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:26,299 Speaker 2: got a lot of things to finish 306 00:14:27,479 --> 00:14:30,250 Speaker 1: on that note. Can I ask a very real question? 307 00:14:30,460 --> 00:14:33,570 Speaker 1: Have any residents come up to you and ask if 308 00:14:33,580 --> 00:14:35,030 Speaker 1: you would be less available 309 00:14:35,289 --> 00:14:36,239 Speaker 1: after you give birth? 310 00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:40,219 Speaker 2: Honestly, I'm sure. Oh, no. And to be honest, I've 311 00:14:40,229 --> 00:14:43,549 Speaker 2: had very, very kind residents who have also said like, 312 00:14:43,559 --> 00:14:43,950 Speaker 2: you know, because I, 313 00:14:44,054 --> 00:14:46,034 Speaker 2: my husband and I didn't really share the news until 314 00:14:46,054 --> 00:14:48,364 Speaker 2: I was quite far along until I think I was 315 00:14:48,375 --> 00:14:52,465 Speaker 2: past six months. And you know, a lot of residents have, well, 316 00:14:52,474 --> 00:14:55,955 Speaker 2: meaning like, you know, go like MP you should have 317 00:14:55,965 --> 00:14:58,395 Speaker 2: a child soon and all that. So I'm like, yeah, 318 00:14:58,405 --> 00:15:01,734 Speaker 2: you ask him to ask, I have delivered, I will 319 00:15:01,744 --> 00:15:04,934 Speaker 2: be delivering and actually there have been residents still like, 320 00:15:04,945 --> 00:15:09,565 Speaker 2: you know, oh, I can help you babysit. I still can, 321 00:15:09,575 --> 00:15:11,455 Speaker 2: by the way. Ok. Very good. I know what you 322 00:15:11,465 --> 00:15:11,815 Speaker 2: say 323 00:15:13,239 --> 00:15:15,940 Speaker 2: and I'm very grateful and I think there are tradeoffs 324 00:15:15,950 --> 00:15:19,309 Speaker 2: that I, I will have to make in terms of 325 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,489 Speaker 2: how much time I think, you know, some people talk 326 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:24,590 Speaker 2: about being able to take like a year of work 327 00:15:24,599 --> 00:15:26,020 Speaker 2: to be able to spend with the child for the 328 00:15:26,030 --> 00:15:27,549 Speaker 2: first year. I mean, I think I just have to 329 00:15:27,559 --> 00:15:30,010 Speaker 2: also be very practical and realistic that they have different 330 00:15:30,020 --> 00:15:32,729 Speaker 2: commitments in my life. And that's not an option for 331 00:15:32,739 --> 00:15:37,039 Speaker 2: me today. Is there guilt? Uh, there is the other 332 00:15:37,049 --> 00:15:38,349 Speaker 2: day I had six events 333 00:15:38,895 --> 00:15:41,494 Speaker 2: and the first one was quite a long stretch. When 334 00:15:41,505 --> 00:15:43,114 Speaker 2: I was on my feet, I was walking up and 335 00:15:43,125 --> 00:15:46,364 Speaker 2: down and my first meal of that day I think 336 00:15:46,375 --> 00:15:48,844 Speaker 2: was around 1 p.m. and I hit Tapao and I 337 00:15:48,854 --> 00:15:51,604 Speaker 2: was eating in the car and that's just the reality 338 00:15:51,614 --> 00:15:54,484 Speaker 2: of what it is sometimes. So I went through the 339 00:15:54,494 --> 00:15:56,065 Speaker 2: rest of my day, I finished at about nine. It 340 00:15:56,075 --> 00:15:58,515 Speaker 2: was me autumn, I went home and I just remember 341 00:15:58,525 --> 00:16:01,505 Speaker 2: feeling so guilty like, you know, oh, I didn't, I 342 00:16:01,515 --> 00:16:03,544 Speaker 2: didn't get to feed you properly today. 343 00:16:04,169 --> 00:16:06,849 Speaker 2: Um, I was, you know, I didn't get to rest. 344 00:16:06,859 --> 00:16:09,030 Speaker 2: I didn't put my feet up. My feet were really swollen. 345 00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:12,340 Speaker 2: I was just thinking, ok, I'll try harder. Yeah. And 346 00:16:12,349 --> 00:16:15,849 Speaker 2: I think that's just part of the ups and downs. 347 00:16:15,859 --> 00:16:18,390 Speaker 2: And what we have to bear along the way. I 348 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,900 Speaker 2: shouldn't stop you. I shouldn't stop you from trying to 349 00:16:23,409 --> 00:16:24,469 Speaker 2: achieve all the things you want 350 00:16:24,479 --> 00:16:27,270 Speaker 1: to balance it. What about your role as a wife, 351 00:16:27,530 --> 00:16:28,270 Speaker 2: as a wife? 352 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:28,510 Speaker 1: Do 353 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: you think you are living up to that? 354 00:16:30,619 --> 00:16:31,210 Speaker 2: Oh, no. 355 00:16:32,349 --> 00:16:33,590 Speaker 2: You know anyone else 356 00:16:34,119 --> 00:16:34,250 Speaker 1: only 357 00:16:34,530 --> 00:16:36,450 Speaker 2: to yourself. So, you have to ask my husband. I 358 00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:40,590 Speaker 2: hold on. I got ok. She knows my husband, I think, yeah, 359 00:16:40,599 --> 00:16:42,309 Speaker 2: if it goes back to what 360 00:16:42,405 --> 00:16:45,955 Speaker 2: are the different versions and visions of it. And I 361 00:16:45,965 --> 00:16:49,015 Speaker 2: think that's something that's very important between partners that you 362 00:16:49,025 --> 00:16:52,625 Speaker 2: have that agreement and understanding about how you're going to 363 00:16:52,635 --> 00:16:55,405 Speaker 2: be there for each other and in what way? So 364 00:16:55,414 --> 00:16:58,164 Speaker 2: I'm really very fortunate to have an understanding and supportive 365 00:16:58,174 --> 00:17:01,304 Speaker 2: husband without whom I would not be able to do 366 00:17:01,544 --> 00:17:04,064 Speaker 2: half the things that I do. And it was a 367 00:17:04,074 --> 00:17:06,405 Speaker 2: very serious conversation early on that if I were to 368 00:17:06,415 --> 00:17:07,344 Speaker 2: go down this path, 369 00:17:08,380 --> 00:17:11,500 Speaker 2: this is what it will look like. And we've had 370 00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:14,839 Speaker 2: to adjust the sales along the way and have very 371 00:17:14,849 --> 00:17:18,579 Speaker 2: difficult conversations. But I think at the end of the 372 00:17:18,589 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 2: day we are ultimately stronger for it. And I think 373 00:17:22,890 --> 00:17:25,770 Speaker 2: the most comforting thing to be able to go home 374 00:17:25,780 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 2: and be like, 375 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:29,739 Speaker 2: yeah, it was a really hard day. Oh, yeah. It was, 376 00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 2: it was a really great day and I know that 377 00:17:32,130 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 2: he likes to hear the stories of the residents interactions 378 00:17:35,530 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: because he knows that that's important to me. So I 379 00:17:37,890 --> 00:17:40,829 Speaker 2: don't know if I'm fully like a plus, but I 380 00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 2: think it's like, ok. Right. 381 00:17:44,530 --> 00:17:48,239 Speaker 2: I don't know. You really have to ask him sweat. 382 00:17:48,250 --> 00:17:53,349 Speaker 2: The moral of the story is choose your partners wisely. But, 383 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:54,938 Speaker 2: you know, like when you do your walk about, when 384 00:17:54,949 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 2: you meet a resident, do you see women who, you know, 385 00:17:58,449 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: struggle the expectations of caring for the elderly because you 386 00:18:01,530 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 2: have 387 00:18:01,729 --> 00:18:06,189 Speaker 2: so many like d residences there, I think firstly, caregiving, 388 00:18:06,199 --> 00:18:08,510 Speaker 2: I mean, whether you're a son or a daughter is 389 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,750 Speaker 2: incredibly challenging and a lot of times you can feel 390 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,709 Speaker 2: like your entire life has been put on hold or 391 00:18:15,719 --> 00:18:17,729 Speaker 2: you need to put it aside in order to look 392 00:18:17,739 --> 00:18:19,050 Speaker 2: after the care recipient. 393 00:18:19,390 --> 00:18:21,718 Speaker 2: And a lot of times it does fall to the 394 00:18:21,729 --> 00:18:27,899 Speaker 2: daughter sometimes unfairly, right? Sometimes a bit too casually, like 395 00:18:27,910 --> 00:18:31,790 Speaker 2: an unspoken thing, you know, the they just assume your 396 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 2: daughter will look after, you know, and you know, especially 397 00:18:34,689 --> 00:18:37,750 Speaker 2: during COVID, I think where, you know, a lot of 398 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,369 Speaker 2: our elderly are also very independent, they want to live alone. 399 00:18:41,380 --> 00:18:43,208 Speaker 2: I mean, my grandma, for example, is one of the 400 00:18:43,314 --> 00:18:48,295 Speaker 2: who is fiercely independent. I mean, she's 89 but she's like, yeah, 401 00:18:48,584 --> 00:18:51,854 Speaker 2: you know, she only very recently consented to having a 402 00:18:51,864 --> 00:18:54,824 Speaker 2: helper at home, but before that, she really wanted to. 403 00:18:54,834 --> 00:18:56,415 Speaker 2: And I see that in that in so many of 404 00:18:56,425 --> 00:18:59,244 Speaker 2: my residents who are very resilient, who are very independent, 405 00:18:59,255 --> 00:19:01,165 Speaker 2: who don't want to give up or don't want to 406 00:19:01,175 --> 00:19:03,025 Speaker 2: have someone else in their home. So for a lot 407 00:19:03,035 --> 00:19:06,375 Speaker 2: of caregivers who have an idea of how care should 408 00:19:06,385 --> 00:19:07,135 Speaker 2: be given, 409 00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:10,650 Speaker 2: they also can't always deliver that care because, you know, 410 00:19:10,660 --> 00:19:12,770 Speaker 2: they don't ask mummy to come and stay with me, 411 00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:14,859 Speaker 2: my mommy don't want. And so I have to make 412 00:19:14,869 --> 00:19:19,130 Speaker 2: this commute, you know, every day to look after. And 413 00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:22,369 Speaker 2: it is really, really challenging, especially when you also have 414 00:19:22,829 --> 00:19:26,170 Speaker 2: your own, say like kids, your own home to run, 415 00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:28,899 Speaker 2: you know, your own job to do, which is why 416 00:19:28,910 --> 00:19:32,689 Speaker 2: I think having more access to resources. So for example, 417 00:19:32,859 --> 00:19:35,489 Speaker 2: knowing that there are active aging centers also in the 418 00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:37,419 Speaker 2: neighborhood that maybe, you know, you don't have someone there 419 00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:39,530 Speaker 2: 24 7, but maybe you can control 420 00:19:39,969 --> 00:19:43,219 Speaker 2: when you want to step into a day activity center, 421 00:19:43,530 --> 00:19:46,939 Speaker 2: meet other people and then when you're done, you know, 422 00:19:47,089 --> 00:19:50,310 Speaker 2: you go home. But there are unfortunately cases also of 423 00:19:50,319 --> 00:19:54,770 Speaker 2: very real burnout. And even beyond that period of caring, 424 00:19:54,780 --> 00:19:57,889 Speaker 2: I think at some point if the person you're caring 425 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:01,099 Speaker 2: for has passed on, it is incredibly challenging because you 426 00:20:01,109 --> 00:20:03,859 Speaker 2: feel like so much of your identity has been 427 00:20:04,199 --> 00:20:08,459 Speaker 2: I am this person's caregiver and so who am I now? 428 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,459 Speaker 2: And it's not just, you know, daughters or Children, but 429 00:20:12,469 --> 00:20:14,669 Speaker 2: also spouses because at the end of the day, you know, 430 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,270 Speaker 2: in terms of health span lifespan. Women in Singapore tend 431 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,420 Speaker 2: to live. I think it's about 56 years longer than 432 00:20:20,430 --> 00:20:24,300 Speaker 2: the men. So for a lot of wives who, especially 433 00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:27,660 Speaker 2: of the older generation, like you were saying, have grown up, 434 00:20:28,140 --> 00:20:30,150 Speaker 2: you know, through the years, maybe not working for a 435 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,410 Speaker 2: long time. And a lot of the identity has really 436 00:20:33,420 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 2: been tiered to, you know, oh, I am missus, someone 437 00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:40,079 Speaker 2: that can be such a huge shift that they need 438 00:20:40,089 --> 00:20:43,780 Speaker 2: to be supported to realize that you are more, you know, 439 00:20:43,790 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: there is still stuff for you to go out there 440 00:20:46,050 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: and achieve. Yeah, very sad, sorry, 441 00:20:50,050 --> 00:20:54,229 Speaker 1: very, very real, real stories. And these examples, we might 442 00:20:54,239 --> 00:20:56,670 Speaker 1: very well face them one day ourselves as well. But 443 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,219 Speaker 1: I also think like at this day and age when 444 00:20:59,229 --> 00:21:02,900 Speaker 1: it comes to social economic status, women are no longer 445 00:21:02,910 --> 00:21:05,260 Speaker 1: at a disadvantage like last time when it comes to 446 00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:07,579 Speaker 1: cases like that, maybe the man will bring in more 447 00:21:07,589 --> 00:21:09,550 Speaker 1: money and then the women will be pitching in less. 448 00:21:09,719 --> 00:21:11,319 Speaker 1: But I feel like now it's more of like a 449 00:21:11,329 --> 00:21:13,420 Speaker 1: 5050 sometimes the woman 450 00:21:13,535 --> 00:21:15,555 Speaker 1: and can also be earning more than the men. 451 00:21:15,744 --> 00:21:19,334 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think again, it goes back to how 452 00:21:19,344 --> 00:21:23,444 Speaker 2: you and your partner choose to run the household and 453 00:21:23,454 --> 00:21:25,264 Speaker 2: of your life. I do think that in this day 454 00:21:25,275 --> 00:21:28,415 Speaker 2: and age, there are more dads who want to be 455 00:21:28,425 --> 00:21:32,555 Speaker 2: very active parents also want to, you know, spend time 456 00:21:32,564 --> 00:21:34,675 Speaker 2: with their little ones. And you know, I think the 457 00:21:34,685 --> 00:21:36,915 Speaker 2: steps that we've taken towards paternity leave, 458 00:21:37,020 --> 00:21:40,060 Speaker 2: leave and shared parental leave are sort of the policy 459 00:21:40,069 --> 00:21:44,429 Speaker 2: implications of what society is asking for. And in that case, 460 00:21:44,439 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 2: you know, I think there also are sometimes really difficult 461 00:21:47,130 --> 00:21:50,989 Speaker 2: expectations on men where the expectation is. OK. Yeah, you 462 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,900 Speaker 2: are supposed to bring in more what you know, but 463 00:21:52,910 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 2: then you're also supposed to be more active, more active 464 00:21:57,290 --> 00:21:58,989 Speaker 2: and then, you know, you're also supposed to be very 465 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,319 Speaker 2: strong and stoic, 466 00:22:00,505 --> 00:22:02,885 Speaker 2: but you are also supposed to be vulnerable. I mean, 467 00:22:02,895 --> 00:22:05,744 Speaker 2: it's a confusing time for a lot of people out 468 00:22:05,755 --> 00:22:09,285 Speaker 2: there and I don't know if it's about balance really, 469 00:22:09,295 --> 00:22:12,765 Speaker 2: but it's about harmony. And I think for every couple 470 00:22:12,854 --> 00:22:15,765 Speaker 2: it looks different and the most important thing is for 471 00:22:15,775 --> 00:22:18,285 Speaker 2: people to be able to feel that they can be 472 00:22:18,295 --> 00:22:21,145 Speaker 2: themselves and that they can be confident in the choices 473 00:22:21,155 --> 00:22:22,744 Speaker 2: that they are making and that people are not going 474 00:22:22,755 --> 00:22:23,885 Speaker 2: to touch them. And frankly, 475 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,599 Speaker 2: it's nobody's business how you want to. 476 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:28,260 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true. 477 00:22:28,290 --> 00:22:30,839 Speaker 1: So I have a friend, she made a career switch 478 00:22:30,849 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: and by making this career switch, she actually took a 479 00:22:32,569 --> 00:22:35,859 Speaker 1: pay cut. So her damn boyfriend now husband actually offered 480 00:22:35,869 --> 00:22:38,010 Speaker 1: to pay more for her mortgage. But a couple of 481 00:22:38,020 --> 00:22:39,979 Speaker 1: years down the road, she's actually making more than her 482 00:22:39,989 --> 00:22:43,500 Speaker 1: husband now and she offers to pay more mortgage back. 483 00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:44,489 Speaker 1: But to me, 484 00:22:44,660 --> 00:22:50,819 Speaker 1: I don't know if that concept like the woman paying 485 00:22:50,829 --> 00:22:53,810 Speaker 1: more for mortgage. I know, call me for like whatever, 486 00:22:53,819 --> 00:22:56,589 Speaker 1: but I'm more comfortable with a 5050 kind of thing. 487 00:22:56,599 --> 00:22:59,459 Speaker 1: So that like, you know, I'm always safeguarding my money 488 00:22:59,469 --> 00:23:00,900 Speaker 1: at no point in time. Am I like paying like 489 00:23:00,910 --> 00:23:04,369 Speaker 1: maybe 70%? So I don't know, I don't know that one. 490 00:23:05,989 --> 00:23:07,409 Speaker 1: Then you got to see I will get back who 491 00:23:07,420 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: is taking more or is it still 5050? Because last 492 00:23:09,930 --> 00:23:11,510 Speaker 1: time the guy pay more and then now the girl 493 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: pay more, 494 00:23:11,930 --> 00:23:12,260 Speaker 1: you know, 495 00:23:12,270 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: I guess, ok, I mean, I guess the concept of 496 00:23:16,050 --> 00:23:21,069 Speaker 2: marriage or being in a partnership is ultimately that you 497 00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:24,430 Speaker 2: and I still exist. But at the same time, we 498 00:23:24,439 --> 00:23:26,250 Speaker 2: must remember that it's about us. 499 00:23:26,650 --> 00:23:28,968 Speaker 2: And so for different people, I mean, I think it 500 00:23:28,979 --> 00:23:33,180 Speaker 2: really is absolutely important for people to be financially independent. 501 00:23:33,189 --> 00:23:35,530 Speaker 2: I mean, to make sure you are saving, you never 502 00:23:35,540 --> 00:23:39,530 Speaker 2: know what's going to happen for you as an individual 503 00:23:39,540 --> 00:23:41,750 Speaker 2: or for you as a couple, you know, both ways. 504 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,010 Speaker 2: But I personally feel that, you know, in sickness and 505 00:23:46,020 --> 00:23:46,869 Speaker 2: in health in good 506 00:23:46,979 --> 00:23:50,010 Speaker 2: times and bad times, you know, really could mean in law, 507 00:23:50,020 --> 00:23:52,469 Speaker 2: we always think about worst case scenarios, right? So worst 508 00:23:52,479 --> 00:23:56,239 Speaker 2: case scenario is what if someone is permanently unfit to work, 509 00:23:56,260 --> 00:23:59,819 Speaker 2: whether it's an accident or something really unfortunate. And then 510 00:23:59,829 --> 00:24:01,780 Speaker 2: in that case that that person is not even going 511 00:24:01,790 --> 00:24:05,079 Speaker 2: to be contributing 50% you know, it's gonna be contributing 512 00:24:05,089 --> 00:24:07,349 Speaker 2: nothing 0%. And then what? 513 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:08,689 Speaker 2: Right. 514 00:24:08,699 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: So I've never considered it from this perspective. 515 00:24:12,130 --> 00:24:15,469 Speaker 2: And then would you be like, disgruntled, would you feel 516 00:24:15,969 --> 00:24:16,750 Speaker 1: how 517 00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:19,030 Speaker 2: real thoughts, 518 00:24:19,390 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: thoughts 519 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,180 Speaker 1: insurance is important? 520 00:24:25,939 --> 00:24:28,170 Speaker 1: But yeah, a question for the floor. If you had 521 00:24:28,180 --> 00:24:30,939 Speaker 1: to choose between a, being a stay at home wife 522 00:24:30,949 --> 00:24:35,630 Speaker 1: fulfilling traditional norms or b being a career woman focused 523 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,890 Speaker 1: on your job full time, what would be your pick? 524 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:38,930 Speaker 1: I 525 00:24:38,989 --> 00:24:39,219 Speaker 1: want 526 00:24:39,229 --> 00:24:41,449 Speaker 2: it all to. 527 00:24:42,189 --> 00:24:44,939 Speaker 1: Are you leaning towards one side? Because for me and 528 00:24:44,949 --> 00:24:47,819 Speaker 1: it shocks me to say this, I'm a workaholic like 529 00:24:47,829 --> 00:24:49,739 Speaker 1: she knows it. But I would want to be a 530 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:53,459 Speaker 1: stay at home while fulfilling traditional norms because these are 531 00:24:53,469 --> 00:24:54,150 Speaker 1: moments that money 532 00:24:54,244 --> 00:24:57,185 Speaker 1: come by. These are moments that once they have passed 533 00:24:57,194 --> 00:24:59,854 Speaker 1: time cannot turn back. I cannot believe that again. But 534 00:24:59,864 --> 00:25:01,514 Speaker 1: can I still go and pursue a job at the 535 00:25:01,525 --> 00:25:04,744 Speaker 1: age of 5060? I definitely can. So, you know, it's 536 00:25:04,755 --> 00:25:06,935 Speaker 1: like this little things that I don't want to miss 537 00:25:06,944 --> 00:25:09,425 Speaker 1: out on time with my parents, with my loved ones. 538 00:25:12,689 --> 00:25:14,010 Speaker 2: So your calendar must change 539 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: a bit, the greens must go up, but 540 00:25:18,010 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: she's 541 00:25:18,369 --> 00:25:21,479 Speaker 2: consciously been trying to do that. So, yeah, and I 542 00:25:21,489 --> 00:25:25,708 Speaker 2: think people also appreciate effort. You know, we shouldn't be 543 00:25:25,719 --> 00:25:28,349 Speaker 2: too hard on ourselves again. It goes to this exact 544 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 2: thing about wanting to 545 00:25:29,219 --> 00:25:31,089 Speaker 2: have it all and maybe just not at the same 546 00:25:31,099 --> 00:25:34,180 Speaker 2: time but recognizing that time is short, I mean, it's like, yeah, 547 00:25:34,770 --> 00:25:38,489 Speaker 2: you know, but not at the same time, but time 548 00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:42,140 Speaker 2: is short. So, I mean, I think that women today 549 00:25:42,150 --> 00:25:45,829 Speaker 2: are empowered and have the space and possibility 550 00:25:46,219 --> 00:25:51,989 Speaker 2: to do anything. There's no bar but it's about how 551 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,478 Speaker 2: do we then find the harmony in what we want do? Personally. 552 00:25:56,489 --> 00:25:59,689 Speaker 2: I'm not sure that I would be a stay at 553 00:25:59,699 --> 00:26:03,300 Speaker 2: home mom or a career woman. Ok. I would like 554 00:26:03,310 --> 00:26:03,989 Speaker 2: to think 555 00:26:04,459 --> 00:26:07,688 Speaker 2: I'll let you know again, maybe in a year or two, 556 00:26:07,699 --> 00:26:10,689 Speaker 2: whether I have found that harmony for myself or not. 557 00:26:10,699 --> 00:26:12,829 Speaker 2: But I think it's, it's, you know, on us to, 558 00:26:12,839 --> 00:26:13,329 Speaker 2: to try. 559 00:26:13,339 --> 00:26:15,689 Speaker 1: Correct. On that note, I want to share a study 560 00:26:15,699 --> 00:26:18,930 Speaker 1: with you again. This is done by associate professor called 561 00:26:18,939 --> 00:26:22,459 Speaker 1: Gan Yon HN. So this professor had said that the 562 00:26:22,469 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: reason women's roles have evolved in the workplace but have 563 00:26:25,170 --> 00:26:25,569 Speaker 1: remained 564 00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:28,859 Speaker 1: largely the same at home, especially when there are Children 565 00:26:28,869 --> 00:26:32,579 Speaker 1: involved is due to biology. You know why? Because he 566 00:26:32,589 --> 00:26:36,609 Speaker 1: said women often begin with nursing the infants and therefore 567 00:26:36,619 --> 00:26:39,599 Speaker 1: are naturally more hands on when the Children are young. 568 00:26:39,829 --> 00:26:44,198 Speaker 1: So this habit never leaves. So you are actually doing 569 00:26:44,209 --> 00:26:46,319 Speaker 1: more and more, you're taking more and more on your plate, 570 00:26:46,329 --> 00:26:49,469 Speaker 1: your workplace involvements have never changed, but at home it 571 00:26:49,479 --> 00:26:51,469 Speaker 1: is more for you. Do you think there's going to 572 00:26:51,479 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: be for you? 573 00:26:53,199 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 2: Sweat? This is like a reality 30 week check in, 574 00:26:58,290 --> 00:27:01,819 Speaker 2: you know, like, wow, I really can do so far. 575 00:27:01,829 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 2: People have been saying I'm quite chill but I'm not, 576 00:27:03,569 --> 00:27:06,469 Speaker 2: I'm not sure after this whether I am going to 577 00:27:06,479 --> 00:27:09,339 Speaker 2: be so chill. I think at the end of the day, 578 00:27:09,349 --> 00:27:14,020 Speaker 2: it will be about how I prioritize. And I think, 579 00:27:14,030 --> 00:27:16,140 Speaker 2: which is why also a lot of the steps towards 580 00:27:16,150 --> 00:27:19,449 Speaker 2: more flexible work arrangements. I honestly, I think that COVID, 581 00:27:19,564 --> 00:27:22,155 Speaker 2: you know, while it was very challenging for a lot 582 00:27:22,165 --> 00:27:24,784 Speaker 2: of us in a lot of different ways, one thing 583 00:27:24,795 --> 00:27:26,795 Speaker 2: that has evolved out of it is this idea of 584 00:27:26,805 --> 00:27:30,125 Speaker 2: more flexible work arrangements and flexible work arrangements do work 585 00:27:30,135 --> 00:27:32,264 Speaker 2: two ways, right at the same time, while you may 586 00:27:32,275 --> 00:27:34,354 Speaker 2: want to be able to four o'clock go off a 587 00:27:34,364 --> 00:27:36,984 Speaker 2: bit earlier to go and tap out, run an errand 588 00:27:36,994 --> 00:27:40,425 Speaker 2: before things close. It also sometimes means that, you know, 589 00:27:40,435 --> 00:27:42,974 Speaker 2: you get home and then maybe you pick up your 590 00:27:42,984 --> 00:27:45,734 Speaker 2: laptop to clear some emails at seven. I mean, it's 591 00:27:45,844 --> 00:27:45,854 Speaker 2: a 592 00:27:46,109 --> 00:27:49,420 Speaker 2: flexible means two way trade offs in that sense. I 593 00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:52,979 Speaker 2: think COVID did a solid then actually more people do 594 00:27:52,989 --> 00:27:56,290 Speaker 2: a combination of work from home and work from office. 595 00:27:56,300 --> 00:27:59,300 Speaker 2: And I think the idea of that trust is very 596 00:27:59,310 --> 00:28:02,948 Speaker 2: important between employer and employee and how you then manage 597 00:28:02,959 --> 00:28:06,930 Speaker 2: your time, work effectively, work efficiently and be able to deliver. 598 00:28:07,449 --> 00:28:11,589 Speaker 2: So I do think we take on more and more roles. 599 00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:15,589 Speaker 2: So again, it is where your tribe comes in. I think, 600 00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:18,750 Speaker 2: you know, how can a partner support you through something 601 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,389 Speaker 2: like breastfeeding? For example, you know, do you have to 602 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,219 Speaker 2: be the one who changes every diaper? Can you afford 603 00:28:26,229 --> 00:28:29,540 Speaker 2: to think about whether your mom or mom in law 604 00:28:29,550 --> 00:28:33,660 Speaker 2: can support with confinement food? I think there are ways 605 00:28:33,670 --> 00:28:33,910 Speaker 2: that 606 00:28:34,017 --> 00:28:37,757 Speaker 2: you can try to balance it but until you open 607 00:28:37,767 --> 00:28:40,958 Speaker 2: your mouth and ask or you know, you must Kai 608 00:28:40,968 --> 00:28:45,878 Speaker 2: co you don't open. Many people also cannot offer you help. 609 00:28:47,128 --> 00:28:49,758 Speaker 2: Anything that I didn't want to do. Like with regards 610 00:28:49,767 --> 00:28:51,958 Speaker 2: to the child, for example, I would just use the 611 00:28:51,968 --> 00:28:56,027 Speaker 2: excuse I carry for nine months already. Yeah, exactly. You 612 00:28:56,037 --> 00:29:00,478 Speaker 2: try nine months for the rest of your life. 613 00:29:01,995 --> 00:29:05,156 Speaker 2: But I do think that we also hesitate to raise 614 00:29:05,166 --> 00:29:07,475 Speaker 2: our hands and seek help because sometimes we feel like 615 00:29:07,485 --> 00:29:10,005 Speaker 2: I say or, you know, if I do that, then 616 00:29:10,015 --> 00:29:13,926 Speaker 2: maybe I will look weak. But actually when you know that, OK, 617 00:29:13,936 --> 00:29:16,326 Speaker 2: this is my limit, you know, and you raise your 618 00:29:16,336 --> 00:29:19,365 Speaker 2: hand that actually to me is a show of strength 619 00:29:19,375 --> 00:29:21,825 Speaker 2: rather than a show of weakness. Because you're saying I 620 00:29:21,836 --> 00:29:25,416 Speaker 2: recognize this is where I'm at and I really need 621 00:29:25,426 --> 00:29:27,046 Speaker 2: some help. And I think more often than not, 622 00:29:27,154 --> 00:29:29,713 Speaker 2: you know, whether it's your partner or your friends or 623 00:29:29,723 --> 00:29:32,163 Speaker 2: your or your parents or in laws. I do think 624 00:29:32,173 --> 00:29:34,994 Speaker 2: that people are happy to help. They want to be 625 00:29:35,004 --> 00:29:35,573 Speaker 2: there for you. 626 00:29:35,583 --> 00:29:36,183 Speaker 1: I think that's a very 627 00:29:36,193 --> 00:29:38,593 Speaker 1: good point that Nadia has raised. If you don't open 628 00:29:38,604 --> 00:29:41,723 Speaker 1: your mouth to ask, it can very easily lead to burnouts. 629 00:29:41,874 --> 00:29:44,453 Speaker 1: So asking for help is one thing I think setting 630 00:29:44,463 --> 00:29:48,384 Speaker 1: clear work life boundaries is also important. But I recognize 631 00:29:48,394 --> 00:29:51,014 Speaker 1: that you say like integration, you know, rather than like 632 00:29:51,024 --> 00:29:53,614 Speaker 1: clear boundaries. But I do think that that needs 633 00:29:53,722 --> 00:29:56,682 Speaker 1: to be a certain timetable that you can follow. For example, 634 00:29:56,692 --> 00:29:58,991 Speaker 1: after this time, no more. Checking your work emails, you 635 00:29:59,001 --> 00:30:03,381 Speaker 1: focus on connection with your spouse, your Children or rest. 636 00:30:03,511 --> 00:30:05,671 Speaker 1: Rest is so important. Well, 637 00:30:05,682 --> 00:30:06,641 Speaker 2: this is part of the work 638 00:30:06,651 --> 00:30:06,862 Speaker 2: too. 639 00:30:06,871 --> 00:30:08,862 Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. 640 00:30:08,871 --> 00:30:10,562 Speaker 1: Self care is a full time job 641 00:30:11,832 --> 00:30:15,661 Speaker 1: and like saying no, when necessary, I think it is important. 642 00:30:15,682 --> 00:30:15,692 Speaker 1: I 643 00:30:15,702 --> 00:30:16,781 Speaker 2: don't feel guilty. 644 00:30:16,802 --> 00:30:18,702 Speaker 1: So you are the kind you can say no one, 645 00:30:18,712 --> 00:30:19,651 Speaker 1: you can reject people 646 00:30:22,380 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: if 647 00:30:22,810 --> 00:30:22,969 Speaker 1: you, 648 00:30:24,750 --> 00:30:27,479 Speaker 2: if you actually had nothing. But then you're supposed to 649 00:30:27,489 --> 00:30:30,329 Speaker 2: meet a friend for example, but you're so tired like 650 00:30:30,339 --> 00:30:32,469 Speaker 2: you just want to lie down. Could you, would you 651 00:30:32,479 --> 00:30:33,069 Speaker 2: still go? Right. 652 00:30:34,689 --> 00:30:36,939 Speaker 2: My husband, it will be like, you know, come, let's 653 00:30:36,949 --> 00:30:39,380 Speaker 2: relax if I have like a free afternoon and then 654 00:30:39,390 --> 00:30:43,430 Speaker 2: I was like, ok, relax and then like 10 minutes later. 655 00:30:43,739 --> 00:30:46,260 Speaker 2: All right. Yeah, I need to go and clean. I 656 00:30:46,369 --> 00:30:49,510 Speaker 2: cannot sit still. But, but I mean, having said that 657 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 2: I do think rest is part of the world, I 658 00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:54,469 Speaker 2: do appreciate being able to have those pockets of moments. 659 00:30:54,479 --> 00:30:56,550 Speaker 2: And I think like you said, even if you integrate 660 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,670 Speaker 2: work and life, it's just one part of your identity 661 00:30:59,739 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you have to decide 662 00:31:01,410 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 2: for yourself. Ok? 663 00:31:02,255 --> 00:31:05,375 Speaker 2: Is someone going to die if I don't reply this 664 00:31:05,385 --> 00:31:10,194 Speaker 2: email at 10 p.m. are no. Yeah, chances are no. 665 00:31:10,204 --> 00:31:13,515 Speaker 2: And I think that's the kind of discipline that you 666 00:31:13,525 --> 00:31:16,295 Speaker 2: also should set for yourself and not just for yourself, 667 00:31:16,305 --> 00:31:18,954 Speaker 2: but also for your child because they also need to 668 00:31:18,964 --> 00:31:23,795 Speaker 2: know that sometimes, ok, you know, mommy is prioritizing me, right? 669 00:31:23,805 --> 00:31:27,025 Speaker 2: And also that there are certain boundaries. I mean, I 670 00:31:27,084 --> 00:31:30,114 Speaker 2: think you can't be checking your emails all the time 671 00:31:30,619 --> 00:31:32,359 Speaker 2: and then when your child want screen time, it is 672 00:31:32,369 --> 00:31:33,430 Speaker 2: very hard to explain, 673 00:31:33,439 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 1: right? Like why you can but the child cannot. 674 00:31:35,729 --> 00:31:35,959 Speaker 1: So 675 00:31:36,010 --> 00:31:38,869 Speaker 2: all things I I in the back of my mind. Ok? 676 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,780 Speaker 2: So if you thought about it in the back of 677 00:31:40,790 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 2: my mind, I thought about it haven't landed. But, 678 00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:46,890 Speaker 2: and I think, you know, just overall right at the 679 00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:49,839 Speaker 2: end of the day, you choose what's most important to you. 680 00:31:50,130 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 2: You try and have it all. But I think we 681 00:31:52,969 --> 00:31:55,790 Speaker 2: don't do everything at the same level. You know what 682 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,380 Speaker 2: I mean? Sometimes you willingly give things up even though 683 00:31:59,390 --> 00:32:02,060 Speaker 2: it could be nice. But I think sometimes you willingly 684 00:32:02,069 --> 00:32:04,969 Speaker 2: give things up. If there was something more important to you. 685 00:32:05,265 --> 00:32:07,864 Speaker 1: I go back to my favorite metaphor, rubber balls or 686 00:32:07,875 --> 00:32:10,564 Speaker 1: glass balls. What can you afford to drop and not 687 00:32:10,574 --> 00:32:12,694 Speaker 1: have it shattered at this point in time in your life? 688 00:32:12,704 --> 00:32:16,185 Speaker 1: I think this episode of Nadia really provides many good reminders, 689 00:32:16,194 --> 00:32:18,545 Speaker 1: you know that like women or men alike, we can 690 00:32:18,555 --> 00:32:20,704 Speaker 1: have it all but just not all at the same time. 691 00:32:20,714 --> 00:32:23,165 Speaker 1: But any final words for our listeners out 692 00:32:23,175 --> 00:32:23,464 Speaker 1: there? 693 00:32:23,474 --> 00:32:25,505 Speaker 2: Wow. Final words so heavy. 694 00:32:26,650 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: Ok, I help you. What do you think people can 695 00:32:29,170 --> 00:32:29,569 Speaker 1: do 696 00:32:29,579 --> 00:32:33,030 Speaker 2: or like women, especially to not pressure themselves into thinking 697 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,430 Speaker 2: that they have to excel in every area? Yeah. You know, 698 00:32:36,439 --> 00:32:39,319 Speaker 2: I think the most important thing for me personally is 699 00:32:39,329 --> 00:32:42,670 Speaker 2: that society will have expectations of you. It's, they can't 700 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,550 Speaker 2: help themselves. I say, fuck them. Really? It's your life. 701 00:32:45,890 --> 00:32:49,329 Speaker 2: You live what I always say, it's true. I mean, 702 00:32:49,339 --> 00:32:52,589 Speaker 2: you know, even something as, you know, as an example 703 00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:54,229 Speaker 2: during political campaigning, 704 00:32:54,552 --> 00:32:59,103 Speaker 2: you'll see that there are polls about which women candidates 705 00:32:59,113 --> 00:33:01,762 Speaker 2: are the most attractive. Really? Oh, yeah, 706 00:33:03,713 --> 00:33:04,593 Speaker 1: some random websites, 707 00:33:05,672 --> 00:33:05,692 Speaker 1: the 708 00:33:08,973 --> 00:33:09,103 Speaker 1: zone zone 709 00:33:09,113 --> 00:33:11,743 Speaker 2: and you'll see even articles, you know, saying like this 710 00:33:11,753 --> 00:33:15,383 Speaker 2: is what the women candidates are wearing to the nomination centers. 711 00:33:15,873 --> 00:33:18,812 Speaker 2: And so the expectation, I mean, the sort of implication 712 00:33:18,822 --> 00:33:21,703 Speaker 2: then is you are expected to look good. 713 00:33:22,235 --> 00:33:26,845 Speaker 2: Well, while you are walking, you know, sweating your guts out, 714 00:33:27,026 --> 00:33:29,816 Speaker 2: but you're still expected to make sure you look very 715 00:33:29,826 --> 00:33:33,656 Speaker 2: well and put together and you're expected to be smart 716 00:33:33,666 --> 00:33:37,696 Speaker 2: but maybe don't talk back too much because otherwise, then 717 00:33:37,706 --> 00:33:41,796 Speaker 2: your opinion is that someone who you should take the lead. But, 718 00:33:41,806 --> 00:33:44,176 Speaker 2: you know, maybe when you're young, maybe you're called bossy. 719 00:33:44,526 --> 00:33:46,586 Speaker 2: This is like the whole Barbie, this is like the, 720 00:33:46,595 --> 00:33:49,095 Speaker 2: the barbie mono, which I could not deliver with justice. 721 00:33:49,105 --> 00:33:49,936 Speaker 2: So I shall not. 722 00:33:50,589 --> 00:33:52,699 Speaker 2: But I think that at the end of the day, 723 00:33:52,709 --> 00:33:57,819 Speaker 2: what's most important is your own expectations of yourself. And 724 00:33:57,829 --> 00:34:00,140 Speaker 2: it's ok if you don't have it all figured out now, 725 00:34:00,439 --> 00:34:03,979 Speaker 2: it's ok if it changes along the way, I think 726 00:34:03,989 --> 00:34:07,260 Speaker 2: what's most important is that you and the people closest 727 00:34:07,270 --> 00:34:07,420 Speaker 2: to you, 728 00:34:07,510 --> 00:34:11,169 Speaker 2: the people who you love, you're very clear of where 729 00:34:11,179 --> 00:34:14,989 Speaker 2: that sort of North Star and love bubble is and 730 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,449 Speaker 2: that should be what you think about when you're making 731 00:34:17,459 --> 00:34:20,830 Speaker 2: all these big decisions in life. So people can have expectations. 732 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,189 Speaker 2: Um Azura put it eloquently which I will not say. 733 00:34:25,968 --> 00:34:28,618 Speaker 2: But, you know, I think while it's all well and 734 00:34:28,628 --> 00:34:30,688 Speaker 2: good and some of it is just well meaning advice, 735 00:34:30,898 --> 00:34:33,378 Speaker 2: you know, which you can, you can consider by the 736 00:34:33,388 --> 00:34:34,968 Speaker 2: end of the day, you know, go back to what 737 00:34:34,979 --> 00:34:37,069 Speaker 2: feels real and what feels right for you. And I'll 738 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:40,258 Speaker 2: tell you why I'm so against expectations, right? Especially from 739 00:34:40,268 --> 00:34:43,739 Speaker 2: an outside point of view. It's only because at the 740 00:34:43,748 --> 00:34:46,259 Speaker 2: end of the day, the one who has to deal 741 00:34:46,268 --> 00:34:49,018 Speaker 2: with the consequences of that decision is yours yourself. Yeah. 742 00:34:49,029 --> 00:34:52,377 Speaker 2: They have no idea. Yeah, they tell you what to do. 743 00:34:52,518 --> 00:34:54,938 Speaker 2: But if that's not what you want and you do listen, 744 00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 2: you're paying for it, it's not them. Yeah, they're gonna 745 00:34:58,370 --> 00:35:02,010 Speaker 2: go home and think about something else. Five minutes. Correct. Correct. Honestly, 746 00:35:02,189 --> 00:35:02,939 Speaker 2: you know. So 747 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:04,030 Speaker 1: yeah, 748 00:35:04,129 --> 00:35:06,909 Speaker 1: so I would just say live for yourself and just 749 00:35:06,919 --> 00:35:10,889 Speaker 1: be happy in that process and in that journey with that. 750 00:35:10,899 --> 00:35:15,178 Speaker 1: Thank you so much Nadia for joining us. I love 751 00:35:15,209 --> 00:35:17,469 Speaker 1: the IG handle. By the way, it's called something going 752 00:35:17,479 --> 00:35:17,770 Speaker 1: on 753 00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:19,689 Speaker 2: something going on. 754 00:35:21,139 --> 00:35:21,639 Speaker 2: Cute, cute. 755 00:35:23,129 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Follow Nadia on Instagram and follow us as well 756 00:35:26,050 --> 00:35:28,929 Speaker 1: at isle.co. That's right. You can listen to us on me. 757 00:35:28,939 --> 00:35:29,729 Speaker 2: Listen, Apple 758 00:35:29,739 --> 00:35:30,409 Speaker 1: podcast, 759 00:35:30,419 --> 00:35:31,250 Speaker 2: Spotify, 760 00:35:31,260 --> 00:35:31,580 Speaker 1: turn 761 00:35:31,590 --> 00:35:32,689 Speaker 2: on your notifications. 762 00:35:32,699 --> 00:35:35,969 Speaker 1: We're also on youtube. So feel free to subscribe to 763 00:35:35,979 --> 00:35:38,489 Speaker 1: us and leave comments in the comment section down below. 764 00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:40,479 Speaker 1: I read them. Ok. Thank you so much 765 00:35:40,489 --> 00:35:42,889 Speaker 2: Nadia and read all the comments. It will drive you crazy. 766 00:35:42,899 --> 00:35:43,529 Speaker 2: It's true. 767 00:35:43,550 --> 00:35:44,449 Speaker 1: It's true. That's very true. 768 00:35:44,780 --> 00:35:47,939 Speaker 1: That's very true as well. Alrighty guys, take care. We'll 769 00:35:47,949 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: see you guys next time. Bye.