1 00:00:00,079 --> 00:00:02,269 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:04,019 --> 00:00:08,159 Speaker 1: Hey there. It's Andrea Heng back on the Money Talks podcast. 3 00:00:08,170 --> 00:00:12,300 Speaker 1: In the previous episode, my colleague Elizabeth Neo did some 4 00:00:12,310 --> 00:00:16,290 Speaker 1: investigating into the need for a financial planner, the benefits 5 00:00:16,299 --> 00:00:19,909 Speaker 1: of having one, how to audition one, how to break 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,149 Speaker 1: up with him or her. Thanks Liz for standing in 7 00:00:23,159 --> 00:00:26,149 Speaker 1: for me. But this week we want to cater to 8 00:00:26,159 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: those going so low. Perhaps you 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,150 Speaker 1: a pretty good financial student. Ok. You've done your homework. 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,958 Speaker 1: You're a prudent spender, you have a healthy amount of 11 00:00:34,970 --> 00:00:37,630 Speaker 1: savings in your pocket. You have a good sense of 12 00:00:37,639 --> 00:00:40,950 Speaker 1: what you want better yet. You're determined to do it 13 00:00:40,959 --> 00:00:46,290 Speaker 1: without professional help. Well, this episode is for you. You 14 00:00:46,299 --> 00:00:49,110 Speaker 1: don't have to consider this episode help. Just think about 15 00:00:49,119 --> 00:00:52,349 Speaker 1: it as handy tips on how to diy your own 16 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:53,189 Speaker 1: portfolio 17 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,209 Speaker 1: and we have someone to help us with those tips. 18 00:00:56,220 --> 00:00:59,430 Speaker 1: His name is Tim Phillips, head of content and investment 19 00:00:59,439 --> 00:01:01,970 Speaker 1: lead at prosperous at C G S C I M 20 00:01:01,979 --> 00:01:05,870 Speaker 1: B Securities. He's also a content creator. It's called Tim 21 00:01:05,879 --> 00:01:09,509 Speaker 1: talks money dot com. He's also on Instagram to search 22 00:01:09,519 --> 00:01:13,470 Speaker 1: Tim Talks money side note, He's also author of Chasing 23 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,619 Speaker 1: Miles and E Guide to Chasing Credit Card Miles. Welcome 24 00:01:17,629 --> 00:01:18,690 Speaker 1: to Money Talks Tim. 25 00:01:18,699 --> 00:01:19,709 Speaker 2: Thank you for that 26 00:01:19,805 --> 00:01:22,985 Speaker 2: kind introduction and it is my pleasure. Yeah. No, I 27 00:01:22,995 --> 00:01:25,254 Speaker 2: like all things sort of money and investing. So I 28 00:01:25,264 --> 00:01:27,294 Speaker 2: have a passion for Miles. As you kind of mentioned. 29 00:01:27,305 --> 00:01:29,893 Speaker 2: I thought I'd put that book out there to help 30 00:01:29,904 --> 00:01:32,485 Speaker 2: people optimize their spend a bit better. It's such a 31 00:01:32,495 --> 00:01:32,894 Speaker 2: noble 32 00:01:32,904 --> 00:01:34,893 Speaker 1: act. I must say it's such a novel act. You 33 00:01:34,904 --> 00:01:40,035 Speaker 1: got hit by the investment bug as a teenager when 34 00:01:40,044 --> 00:01:43,205 Speaker 1: you started investing at that age. Did you go it 35 00:01:43,214 --> 00:01:44,735 Speaker 1: alone or did you have some help? I 36 00:01:44,745 --> 00:01:45,955 Speaker 2: mainly got into it 37 00:01:46,050 --> 00:01:50,099 Speaker 2: because of my dad who actually came into investing in 38 00:01:50,110 --> 00:01:52,910 Speaker 2: shares in unit trusts and investment trusts in the UK 39 00:01:52,919 --> 00:01:54,730 Speaker 2: when he was in his forties. So he started out 40 00:01:54,739 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: quite late actually, but he'd always encourage me to save 41 00:01:59,489 --> 00:02:01,709 Speaker 2: and to put it away every month, a certain portion 42 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,540 Speaker 2: of it. So I think when you're young and you 43 00:02:03,550 --> 00:02:06,550 Speaker 2: start investing or you're interested, it's usually a parent or 44 00:02:06,559 --> 00:02:08,369 Speaker 2: a family member or someone who has an influence on you. 45 00:02:08,380 --> 00:02:10,910 Speaker 2: So for me, it was definitely that case with my dad, 46 00:02:11,059 --> 00:02:12,198 Speaker 2: I did start out 47 00:02:12,395 --> 00:02:15,835 Speaker 2: going it alone, individual shares as you might imagine, but 48 00:02:15,845 --> 00:02:17,565 Speaker 2: you learn a lot along the way, right? You, you 49 00:02:17,574 --> 00:02:22,904 Speaker 2: do make mistakes. I mean there's, it's not. Yeah. Yeah. 50 00:02:22,913 --> 00:02:24,945 Speaker 2: So and back in the day in Hong Kong, the 51 00:02:24,955 --> 00:02:27,365 Speaker 2: one stock that you bought or everyone bought was H 52 00:02:27,375 --> 00:02:29,375 Speaker 2: S BC. And you can kind of see what's happened 53 00:02:29,383 --> 00:02:31,794 Speaker 2: with H S BC share. But I think it does 54 00:02:31,804 --> 00:02:35,494 Speaker 2: teach you how to think about companies more. And I 55 00:02:35,505 --> 00:02:38,485 Speaker 2: got into the investment industry just 56 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,660 Speaker 2: in my career anyway, later on. And then I took 57 00:02:41,669 --> 00:02:44,899 Speaker 2: on an interest in investing. But I think for most people, 58 00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:47,190 Speaker 2: they probably don't either have a, have the time or 59 00:02:47,199 --> 00:02:49,830 Speaker 2: b just really don't have the interest in investing in 60 00:02:49,839 --> 00:02:52,220 Speaker 2: shares or individual stocks or what have you. So I 61 00:02:52,229 --> 00:02:55,580 Speaker 2: think it's more important that for people who aren't interested, 62 00:02:55,589 --> 00:02:58,850 Speaker 2: maybe 90% of people out there who just don't have 63 00:02:58,860 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 2: the time or are not interested in individual stocks. It's 64 00:03:00,889 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: actually fine just to think about 65 00:03:02,990 --> 00:03:06,508 Speaker 2: investing into something that's low cost that's diversified like an 66 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,550 Speaker 2: exchange traded fund. I think it's important that even if 67 00:03:09,559 --> 00:03:12,869 Speaker 2: you are someone who's interested or experienced like myself or 68 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,059 Speaker 2: anyone else who's in the investment industry, you're probably going 69 00:03:15,070 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 2: to have 70 00:03:15,910 --> 00:03:18,419 Speaker 2: a set amount of money in ETF S anyway, just 71 00:03:18,429 --> 00:03:20,710 Speaker 2: because it's just diversified as a responsible way to 72 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,529 Speaker 1: invest. So what makes a low cost fund? How do 73 00:03:23,538 --> 00:03:24,869 Speaker 1: I know it's a low cost 74 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,649 Speaker 2: fund? Ok. So this is one area where I think 75 00:03:27,660 --> 00:03:32,038 Speaker 2: the investment industry in Singapore maybe isn't as transparent as 76 00:03:32,050 --> 00:03:35,020 Speaker 2: it is in other jurisdictions, but also maybe because they're 77 00:03:35,029 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: not required by law maybe to show up front, what 78 00:03:37,729 --> 00:03:40,190 Speaker 2: all their costs are, but they're there, they're just in 79 00:03:40,199 --> 00:03:41,089 Speaker 2: the highlight 80 00:03:41,335 --> 00:03:43,225 Speaker 2: highlight sheet and telling me 81 00:03:43,445 --> 00:03:44,095 Speaker 1: I have to, I 82 00:03:44,774 --> 00:03:47,414 Speaker 2: have to do homework and it's super boring. I understand that. Yeah, 83 00:03:47,604 --> 00:03:50,934 Speaker 2: but it's basically called an expense ratio and it's usually 84 00:03:50,945 --> 00:03:53,755 Speaker 2: called a T er, total expense ratio. And it's basically 85 00:03:54,005 --> 00:03:58,074 Speaker 2: what is the percentage of the money that you've invested 86 00:03:58,085 --> 00:04:00,134 Speaker 2: that they take as a fee? And so if you 87 00:04:00,145 --> 00:04:02,875 Speaker 2: think about mutual funds, a lot of them are quite 88 00:04:02,884 --> 00:04:06,505 Speaker 2: expensive now, they're 1.5% per annum. So for every 89 00:04:06,789 --> 00:04:11,039 Speaker 2: $1000 that you have invested, they'll take $15 of that 90 00:04:11,050 --> 00:04:13,399 Speaker 2: every year, right? So that's a lot of money. So 91 00:04:13,649 --> 00:04:15,839 Speaker 2: you have to really think about how that's going to 92 00:04:15,850 --> 00:04:19,250 Speaker 2: impact you. If you're having 60,000 over the years, how 93 00:04:19,260 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: much of your profits are getting eroded by cost? Right. 94 00:04:21,649 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: So I think exchange traded funds solve that problem for 95 00:04:24,649 --> 00:04:27,510 Speaker 2: a lot of investors in terms of the, the cost 96 00:04:27,519 --> 00:04:28,579 Speaker 2: is super low, 97 00:04:28,678 --> 00:04:30,429 Speaker 2: right? So if you're thinking about something in the US, 98 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,969 Speaker 2: it could have an expense ratio of basically, I think 99 00:04:32,980 --> 00:04:38,630 Speaker 2: the lowest now is 0.3%. Oh, wow, that's a huge difference. 1.5%. 100 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,459 Speaker 2: That's huge. That's humongous. Right? So think about that extended 101 00:04:41,470 --> 00:04:44,808 Speaker 2: over 15 2030 years. So that's an area I think 102 00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:48,649 Speaker 2: where costs is really important is when you're thinking about 103 00:04:48,660 --> 00:04:52,809 Speaker 2: your investments and in ETF S, ETF S have made 104 00:04:52,820 --> 00:04:54,750 Speaker 2: it really easy for investors, 105 00:04:55,089 --> 00:04:58,329 Speaker 2: whether they're experienced or whether they're completely starting out to 106 00:04:58,339 --> 00:05:01,529 Speaker 2: access the market at really low cost and to benefit 107 00:05:01,540 --> 00:05:03,190 Speaker 2: from it going up over 108 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,118 Speaker 1: time. I mean, you got to think long term, long term, 109 00:05:06,149 --> 00:05:08,459 Speaker 1: what are the reasons for someone preferring 110 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,690 Speaker 1: to diy his or her portfolio? Especially when it comes 111 00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:15,850 Speaker 1: to a millennial mindset. What I observe is that a 112 00:05:15,859 --> 00:05:18,260 Speaker 1: lot of these millennials tend to want to go it alone. 113 00:05:18,269 --> 00:05:21,609 Speaker 1: They are fiercely independent. Is that what you're seeing as well? 114 00:05:21,619 --> 00:05:21,630 Speaker 1: I 115 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,809 Speaker 2: think it's a combination of yeah, just being more independent 116 00:05:25,820 --> 00:05:27,890 Speaker 2: and wanting to do things themselves. But also they have 117 00:05:27,899 --> 00:05:30,579 Speaker 2: the tools. Remember back in 20 years ago when you 118 00:05:30,589 --> 00:05:32,269 Speaker 2: wanted to start investing or when I was 119 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,690 Speaker 2: investing back in Hong Kong in in you know the yeah, 120 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:38,669 Speaker 2: the the broker and then how much does it cost? 121 00:05:38,678 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 2: It costs like 50 sing dollars to do a trade? 122 00:05:40,730 --> 00:05:43,769 Speaker 2: It's just ridiculous. And nowadays it's super accessible, super cheap 123 00:05:43,779 --> 00:05:46,619 Speaker 2: and super fast, right? So you don't have these old 124 00:05:46,630 --> 00:05:48,579 Speaker 2: style models which are clunky, which are expensive and you 125 00:05:48,589 --> 00:05:50,989 Speaker 2: have to spend a minimum of $10,000 to do a 126 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:51,950 Speaker 2: trade or whatever it is, 127 00:05:52,238 --> 00:05:55,049 Speaker 2: you can trade or you can invest rather as little 128 00:05:55,059 --> 00:05:57,670 Speaker 2: as 10 or $100 a month and put it away 129 00:05:57,678 --> 00:06:00,540 Speaker 2: and it be very low cost and not have your 130 00:06:00,549 --> 00:06:03,290 Speaker 2: principle what you invest be eroded by those trading costs 131 00:06:03,299 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: or those investment costs. Right. So, I think for the 132 00:06:05,769 --> 00:06:08,220 Speaker 2: generation now there's a lot of thought about, oh, the 133 00:06:08,230 --> 00:06:08,790 Speaker 2: market 134 00:06:08,890 --> 00:06:10,779 Speaker 2: has gone up for so long and then now I'm 135 00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:13,238 Speaker 2: getting in and it's, you know, the market's done terribly 136 00:06:13,250 --> 00:06:15,808 Speaker 2: in 2022 it's not coming back. But I think if 137 00:06:15,820 --> 00:06:17,859 Speaker 2: you look at the history of the market, it always 138 00:06:17,869 --> 00:06:20,290 Speaker 2: comes back the US stock market over the past 100 139 00:06:20,299 --> 00:06:22,969 Speaker 2: and 20 years. If you average it out, it's about 140 00:06:22,980 --> 00:06:26,820 Speaker 2: eight or 9% annualized returns. But as Howard Mars, which 141 00:06:26,829 --> 00:06:29,769 Speaker 2: is a, is a great investor said each year, you 142 00:06:29,779 --> 00:06:31,679 Speaker 2: don't get eight or 9% you might get 143 00:06:32,059 --> 00:06:34,670 Speaker 2: 17% positive returns one year and then next year it 144 00:06:34,678 --> 00:06:38,149 Speaker 2: might fall 20%. So it's not a smooth path. That's 145 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,980 Speaker 2: the key. It's more the fact that on average over 146 00:06:41,988 --> 00:06:45,029 Speaker 2: however many decades it has averaged that. And so I 147 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 2: think it's more thinking about that long term perspective and 148 00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:50,339 Speaker 2: putting your money to work and leaving it there to 149 00:06:50,350 --> 00:06:53,029 Speaker 2: compound and grow. But that's difficult. I know because we 150 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,578 Speaker 2: live in this era of instant gratification. I want to 151 00:06:56,589 --> 00:06:58,988 Speaker 2: scroll to the next thing on tiktok or Insta and 152 00:06:59,000 --> 00:06:59,808 Speaker 2: see what's happening. 153 00:06:59,885 --> 00:07:01,825 Speaker 2: So it's like it's that it's that sort of scrolling 154 00:07:01,834 --> 00:07:04,054 Speaker 2: mentality and thinking. I want the next thing fast and 155 00:07:04,065 --> 00:07:06,174 Speaker 2: served up. And for me, it is probably the exact 156 00:07:06,184 --> 00:07:08,815 Speaker 2: opposite of long term investing because long term investing is, 157 00:07:08,825 --> 00:07:10,804 Speaker 2: it's boring. There's no getting away from that fact. It 158 00:07:10,815 --> 00:07:13,154 Speaker 2: is pretty dull, right? And because if you invest in 159 00:07:13,165 --> 00:07:15,054 Speaker 2: the stock market, there's all these data points. And if 160 00:07:15,065 --> 00:07:16,484 Speaker 2: you put it in for a month, you have a 161 00:07:16,494 --> 00:07:19,274 Speaker 2: 50 50 chance or, or less of making money. 162 00:07:19,519 --> 00:07:21,339 Speaker 2: If you put it in for 10 years, it's something 163 00:07:21,350 --> 00:07:23,209 Speaker 2: like 76%. If you put it in for 20 years, 164 00:07:23,220 --> 00:07:26,209 Speaker 2: you're 100% guaranteed to make money, right? So a positive return. 165 00:07:26,220 --> 00:07:27,989 Speaker 2: So if you think about the time, there's never been 166 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,570 Speaker 2: a 20 year period in the US stock market over 167 00:07:30,579 --> 00:07:31,910 Speaker 2: the past 120 years, 168 00:07:32,190 --> 00:07:34,109 Speaker 2: there's never been a 20 year period where you've had 169 00:07:34,119 --> 00:07:36,679 Speaker 2: a negative return. So if you put your money in 170 00:07:36,690 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: and you wait 20 years, you will have a positive 171 00:07:38,329 --> 00:07:41,579 Speaker 2: return based on the statistics, right? Yeah, something will happen. It's, 172 00:07:44,140 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: it's a very long process. The problem. 173 00:07:47,089 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: That's the problem. So you're saying that when it comes 174 00:07:50,609 --> 00:07:55,119 Speaker 1: to solo investing, it's really the accessibility and availability of 175 00:07:55,130 --> 00:07:59,570 Speaker 1: information and tools out there that's really making it beneficial 176 00:07:59,579 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: to go solo. 177 00:08:00,940 --> 00:08:04,470 Speaker 1: So let's dive down to the basics now. Where should 178 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,269 Speaker 1: I start? Blank slate? What do I do? 179 00:08:07,619 --> 00:08:11,869 Speaker 2: Ok. If you're thinking about doing it, Diy, completely diy, right? 180 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,899 Speaker 2: Worth looking at low cost exchange traded funds which are ETS. 181 00:08:15,910 --> 00:08:19,079 Speaker 2: So an exchange traded fund is a vehicle that basically 182 00:08:19,089 --> 00:08:21,809 Speaker 2: just tracks the stock market and within it, it holds 183 00:08:21,820 --> 00:08:23,859 Speaker 2: a lot of companies and in a lot of cases 184 00:08:23,869 --> 00:08:27,220 Speaker 2: they can hold maybe two or 3000 or maybe more. Right. So, 185 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:28,619 Speaker 2: and it has a little bit of everything, a little 186 00:08:28,630 --> 00:08:30,269 Speaker 2: bit of apple, it a little bit Microsoft it a 187 00:08:30,299 --> 00:08:33,099 Speaker 2: little bit of Netflix or Tesla and other companies, not 188 00:08:33,109 --> 00:08:33,858 Speaker 2: just technology. 189 00:08:34,179 --> 00:08:37,017 Speaker 2: So that is probably one of the best vehicles if 190 00:08:37,028 --> 00:08:39,448 Speaker 2: you want to start when I started, I was, you 191 00:08:39,458 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 2: tend to have a home bias. I mean, maybe that's 192 00:08:41,568 --> 00:08:43,757 Speaker 2: not the case nowadays with younger people, but back in 193 00:08:43,768 --> 00:08:45,499 Speaker 2: the day in Hong Kong, a lot of people in 194 00:08:45,508 --> 00:08:47,229 Speaker 2: Hong Kong still nowadays there's a home bias where you 195 00:08:47,239 --> 00:08:49,028 Speaker 2: invest in Hong Kong and I think in Singapore, that's 196 00:08:49,039 --> 00:08:52,739 Speaker 2: the same. You invest in Singapore stocks, right? In Singapore, 197 00:08:52,749 --> 00:08:55,257 Speaker 2: it's less than 1% of the global market and, and 198 00:08:55,268 --> 00:08:58,039 Speaker 2: yet people might have a lot of their money invested 199 00:08:58,049 --> 00:09:00,429 Speaker 2: into Singapore, which is fine. But you need to understand 200 00:09:00,439 --> 00:09:00,647 Speaker 2: that 201 00:09:00,929 --> 00:09:04,030 Speaker 2: you're maybe missing out on exposure to other bigger markets 202 00:09:04,039 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 2: like the US or parts of Europe or Australia or 203 00:09:07,450 --> 00:09:10,090 Speaker 2: China Hong Kong and the US now makes up 60% 204 00:09:10,099 --> 00:09:12,799 Speaker 2: of the global stock market. So you can't ignore it 205 00:09:12,809 --> 00:09:14,859 Speaker 2: and the US has the best, I guess. I 206 00:09:14,979 --> 00:09:16,799 Speaker 1: mean, they've been around that 207 00:09:17,099 --> 00:09:20,250 Speaker 2: long for the market, right? Yeah. Yeah. And they've gone 208 00:09:20,260 --> 00:09:20,819 Speaker 2: through 209 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: cold wars and the Cold War like Monday. Depressions. Yeah, 210 00:09:25,929 --> 00:09:29,069 Speaker 2: every financial crisis. So everything and so they've gone through, 211 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,728 Speaker 2: they've gone through a lot and they still managed to 212 00:09:31,739 --> 00:09:34,210 Speaker 2: generate positive returns for investors who just put money into 213 00:09:34,219 --> 00:09:36,849 Speaker 2: the market, right? Not, not necessarily picking individual stocks, but 214 00:09:36,859 --> 00:09:39,989 Speaker 2: just putting money into the market over time, that's generated 215 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:40,989 Speaker 2: a positive return. 216 00:09:41,330 --> 00:09:43,829 Speaker 2: And so for investors who want a diy, I think 217 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,020 Speaker 2: that's an easy way to do it is to build 218 00:09:46,030 --> 00:09:50,299 Speaker 2: basket of ETS based on thinking about the global breakdown. 219 00:09:50,309 --> 00:09:51,609 Speaker 2: I don't want to be just telling you, hey, this 220 00:09:51,619 --> 00:09:54,020 Speaker 2: is the portfolio you built. So there are financial advisors 221 00:09:54,030 --> 00:09:56,900 Speaker 2: out there. I think the problem with Singapore's scene is 222 00:09:56,909 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: that a lot of it 223 00:09:58,130 --> 00:10:02,650 Speaker 2: is expensive and the financial advisors interests are not aligned 224 00:10:02,659 --> 00:10:05,260 Speaker 2: with yours that has really held back. I think people 225 00:10:05,309 --> 00:10:10,210 Speaker 2: being successful with interest. The issue with financial advisory here 226 00:10:10,219 --> 00:10:11,789 Speaker 2: is that a lot of it is product driven, right? 227 00:10:11,799 --> 00:10:14,858 Speaker 2: They're driven by commissions, they're driven to sell your product 228 00:10:14,869 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: and 229 00:10:15,359 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: it's not transparent, but you're starting to see more fee only. 230 00:10:19,010 --> 00:10:20,539 Speaker 2: I think this is the key. It's called fee only 231 00:10:20,549 --> 00:10:24,099 Speaker 2: advisors which align their interests with yours. So they don't 232 00:10:24,109 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 2: get paid a fee up front to sell you something 233 00:10:26,210 --> 00:10:28,609 Speaker 2: and then whatever, I don't care how that product does 234 00:10:28,619 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: because I sold it and I've got my money. So 235 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:31,909 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter how my client does 236 00:10:32,210 --> 00:10:33,799 Speaker 2: and that's really the wrong way to look at it. 237 00:10:33,809 --> 00:10:36,530 Speaker 2: I don't think it's that ethical, there are services that 238 00:10:36,539 --> 00:10:38,099 Speaker 2: are popping up that are doing that. I mean, in 239 00:10:38,109 --> 00:10:40,919 Speaker 2: Dallas mass market is, is making it very accessible and 240 00:10:40,929 --> 00:10:41,369 Speaker 2: it allows 241 00:10:41,380 --> 00:10:44,059 Speaker 1: you to customize your own basket as well. So it 242 00:10:44,070 --> 00:10:45,218 Speaker 1: gives you that sort of 243 00:10:45,229 --> 00:10:49,729 Speaker 2: autonomy and it gives you the flexibility. There's a really 244 00:10:49,739 --> 00:10:51,630 Speaker 2: good one called Money Ow, which is by N T 245 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,119 Speaker 2: U C. It's a social enterprise and because it's backed 246 00:10:54,130 --> 00:10:56,150 Speaker 2: by N T U C, it's really a non-profit. It's 247 00:10:56,159 --> 00:10:56,599 Speaker 2: really 248 00:10:56,820 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 2: trying to focus on helping people do better with their money. 249 00:11:00,570 --> 00:11:03,669 Speaker 2: And you can invest as little as $100 or 200 250 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 2: into certain funds or certain ETF S rather, and they'll 251 00:11:07,450 --> 00:11:09,460 Speaker 2: take a management fee. But all the fees are very 252 00:11:09,469 --> 00:11:13,359 Speaker 2: transparent upfront and they also have a client wealth advisory team. 253 00:11:13,369 --> 00:11:15,599 Speaker 2: I think there that is only, is based on fee only. 254 00:11:15,609 --> 00:11:17,510 Speaker 2: So they'll take a percentage of your A U M. 255 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:17,809 Speaker 2: So 256 00:11:18,090 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 2: if you have maybe 100,000, they'll take maybe 1% or 10.9%. 257 00:11:23,090 --> 00:11:25,460 Speaker 2: But their goal is to grow that a U M. 258 00:11:25,469 --> 00:11:27,409 Speaker 2: So they want you to grow, they want their business 259 00:11:27,419 --> 00:11:28,978 Speaker 2: to grow along with. I 260 00:11:28,989 --> 00:11:31,190 Speaker 1: guess the way to think of it is their partners 261 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: rather than advisers. 262 00:11:32,450 --> 00:11:34,939 Speaker 2: Yes partners. So the best thing is I think an 263 00:11:34,950 --> 00:11:38,069 Speaker 2: advisor is there to help you and to guide you 264 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:39,039 Speaker 2: to make 265 00:11:39,289 --> 00:11:42,669 Speaker 2: as many smart decisions as possible. So over the past 266 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,459 Speaker 2: 15 or 20 years of just investing and being in 267 00:11:45,469 --> 00:11:47,479 Speaker 2: the market, what I've learned is that a lot of 268 00:11:47,489 --> 00:11:50,150 Speaker 2: the success or what you're going to see as success 269 00:11:50,159 --> 00:11:53,489 Speaker 2: is going to come from basically controlling your emotions, just 270 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:57,020 Speaker 2: not doing anything stupid or rash. And sometimes you think, oh, 271 00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:59,659 Speaker 2: it's gone down and it's a very natural human impulse 272 00:11:59,669 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 2: to say I need to, I need to get out. 273 00:12:01,094 --> 00:12:03,714 Speaker 2: Yeah, because the loss of version, I mean, is it 274 00:12:05,474 --> 00:12:08,064 Speaker 2: the fight or flight? Right. And the more I'm in 275 00:12:08,075 --> 00:12:10,515 Speaker 2: the market and investing and being in this process, the 276 00:12:10,525 --> 00:12:14,184 Speaker 2: more I think investing success comes down to really human psychology. 277 00:12:14,195 --> 00:12:17,625 Speaker 1: And it's a very key characteristic that you must have, 278 00:12:17,635 --> 00:12:20,065 Speaker 1: I think if you want to do this solo. Yeah. Yeah, 279 00:12:20,075 --> 00:12:22,824 Speaker 2: you do need to have control of your emotions and 280 00:12:23,159 --> 00:12:26,590 Speaker 2: that is not easy because the natural emotion, as I said, 281 00:12:26,599 --> 00:12:29,690 Speaker 2: you feel loss or the emotional intensity. I mean, this 282 00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:32,449 Speaker 2: is down to studies and they've shown this, you feel 283 00:12:32,460 --> 00:12:35,210 Speaker 2: the emotion, you feel loss about two or three times 284 00:12:35,219 --> 00:12:38,179 Speaker 2: more intensely than, than winning, right? At the end of 285 00:12:38,190 --> 00:12:40,299 Speaker 2: the day, probably slow and steady is the best way 286 00:12:40,309 --> 00:12:41,989 Speaker 2: to do it. Just put away a certain amount every month. 287 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:42,010 Speaker 2: I 288 00:12:42,020 --> 00:12:45,890 Speaker 1: think that's great advice that whole emotional control just really 289 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:47,919 Speaker 1: know that you're in this for the long haul. Don't 290 00:12:47,929 --> 00:12:50,150 Speaker 1: panic at the first sign of danger. 291 00:12:53,309 --> 00:12:55,359 Speaker 1: There was a time in the middle of last year 292 00:12:55,369 --> 00:12:57,820 Speaker 1: when it seemed that the China we are familiar with 293 00:12:57,830 --> 00:13:01,119 Speaker 1: was a completely different place when the rest of the 294 00:13:01,130 --> 00:13:05,150 Speaker 1: world moved on from the COVID-19 pandemic. As many as 295 00:13:05,159 --> 00:13:09,010 Speaker 1: 300 million Chinese people were under some form of a 296 00:13:09,020 --> 00:13:10,419 Speaker 1: mandatory lockdown. 297 00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:17,159 Speaker 1: There were only two things on my mind to find 298 00:13:17,169 --> 00:13:19,289 Speaker 1: food and to not go crazy. 299 00:13:20,429 --> 00:13:24,250 Speaker 1: Then suddenly the people decided to take things into their 300 00:13:24,260 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: own hands 301 00:13:27,409 --> 00:13:30,940 Speaker 1: for the first time in more than 30 years, protests 302 00:13:30,950 --> 00:13:35,780 Speaker 1: swept through China and just like that zero Cove ended. 303 00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:40,020 Speaker 1: Join me. We do for a look back at the 304 00:13:40,030 --> 00:13:43,789 Speaker 1: extraordinary year in China and hear how it might have 305 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: changed the country for good. 306 00:13:46,979 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: Catch a red wall inside China's Zero COVID World, a 307 00:13:51,289 --> 00:13:55,209 Speaker 1: two part podcast series by C N A. It's available 308 00:13:55,219 --> 00:13:58,969 Speaker 1: now on the C N A and me, listen, apps, Spotify, 309 00:13:58,979 --> 00:14:01,049 Speaker 1: Apple and Google podcasts. 310 00:14:04,049 --> 00:14:06,659 Speaker 1: So I have two scenarios I want to paint to you. Ok. 311 00:14:06,669 --> 00:14:09,609 Speaker 1: So scenario a my goal is to save up for 312 00:14:09,619 --> 00:14:14,530 Speaker 1: retirement but also be covered medically if something were to 313 00:14:14,539 --> 00:14:17,239 Speaker 1: happen to me. My first question to you is how 314 00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:21,549 Speaker 1: do I balance my portfolio priorities in terms of things 315 00:14:21,559 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: like insurance plans and your portfolio investments? 316 00:14:26,409 --> 00:14:29,059 Speaker 2: I think it's important that you have your protection and 317 00:14:29,070 --> 00:14:32,190 Speaker 2: cash savings in place before you start investing for the 318 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:32,919 Speaker 2: long term. So 319 00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:35,239 Speaker 2: I've always said that you really should have at least 320 00:14:35,250 --> 00:14:39,559 Speaker 2: 6 to 12 months of emergency funds in cash, whether 321 00:14:39,599 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 2: you have a medical emergency or you need to, you 322 00:14:42,010 --> 00:14:44,719 Speaker 2: lose your job or there's a cash need for you. 323 00:14:44,729 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 2: You don't want to be liquidating or selling your investments 324 00:14:47,210 --> 00:14:50,119 Speaker 2: rather when the market's down. Right. So you shouldn't have 325 00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:53,299 Speaker 2: all your disposable cash in the stock market. 326 00:14:53,630 --> 00:14:56,130 Speaker 2: And so you need at least six months. Um, I'd 327 00:14:56,140 --> 00:14:58,530 Speaker 2: say if you're really conservative and worried about the market 328 00:14:58,539 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: out there or, or the job market and then 12 months, right? 329 00:15:01,210 --> 00:15:02,799 Speaker 2: But I think six months as a minimum is a 330 00:15:02,809 --> 00:15:05,590 Speaker 2: good way to start with your monthly expenses in terms 331 00:15:05,599 --> 00:15:07,539 Speaker 2: of insurance. I've always thought 332 00:15:08,299 --> 00:15:13,030 Speaker 2: it's a bit more of a specific situation to yourself 333 00:15:13,039 --> 00:15:16,299 Speaker 2: if you just graduated or if you're just starting to work, 334 00:15:16,469 --> 00:15:18,669 Speaker 2: how many dependents do you have in your household? Right. 335 00:15:18,679 --> 00:15:21,380 Speaker 2: Probably none. Unless there's that pocket money element or you 336 00:15:21,390 --> 00:15:22,989 Speaker 2: need to look after your parents. But for your own 337 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,210 Speaker 2: personal insurance, I think 338 00:15:24,275 --> 00:15:28,005 Speaker 2: you don't need to have something massive or super fancy plan. 339 00:15:28,015 --> 00:15:30,424 Speaker 2: And this comes back to the whole financial advisory system 340 00:15:30,434 --> 00:15:32,924 Speaker 2: here which a lot of plans that get sold to 341 00:15:32,934 --> 00:15:36,825 Speaker 2: people are investment linked plans that have an investment component 342 00:15:36,835 --> 00:15:39,174 Speaker 2: and an insurance component. Hey, we're gonna throw this in 343 00:15:39,184 --> 00:15:40,184 Speaker 2: there and hey, we're gonna throw this but, 344 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,270 Speaker 2: but by the way, you're going to pay an extra 345 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,650 Speaker 2: 50 basis points or an extra percent or an extra 346 00:15:44,659 --> 00:15:47,380 Speaker 2: 150 but we're not gonna show you exactly how much 347 00:15:47,390 --> 00:15:49,340 Speaker 2: because it's all buried in the documents which you don't 348 00:15:49,349 --> 00:15:50,530 Speaker 2: want to read and it's too boring. 349 00:15:50,859 --> 00:15:52,719 Speaker 1: So I want to, I want to catch you while 350 00:15:52,729 --> 00:15:55,250 Speaker 1: you're on this subject. Ok. So I have a term 351 00:15:55,260 --> 00:15:59,150 Speaker 1: plan and I LP with my financial advisor, except I've 352 00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:02,890 Speaker 1: been told by a few someone else's that, that particular 353 00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: plan is not great, but I've also been told that 354 00:16:05,770 --> 00:16:07,549 Speaker 1: I would incur a bit of a 355 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,630 Speaker 1: loss or it's not going to be a great idea 356 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,929 Speaker 1: either if I decide to terminate it and let it go. 357 00:16:13,940 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: So what do I 358 00:16:15,530 --> 00:16:17,530 Speaker 2: do? That's the thing is I think there are these 359 00:16:17,539 --> 00:16:21,340 Speaker 2: penalties if you sell, if you withdraw early. So that's 360 00:16:21,349 --> 00:16:23,869 Speaker 2: a hard one. Well, first off, I think I LP 361 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,169 Speaker 2: S are really a standard part of the scene here. 362 00:16:26,179 --> 00:16:28,369 Speaker 2: It's not to say that there's anything wrong per se 363 00:16:28,380 --> 00:16:30,369 Speaker 2: with buying it because a lot of people do. I 364 00:16:30,380 --> 00:16:33,130 Speaker 2: just don't think it's the optimal way to invest or 365 00:16:33,140 --> 00:16:34,750 Speaker 2: to think about savings because 366 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,590 Speaker 2: if you actually think about the upfront commitment, as you said, 367 00:16:38,599 --> 00:16:40,469 Speaker 2: it's really difficult because you've got a lot of, I 368 00:16:40,479 --> 00:16:42,119 Speaker 2: don't know, monthly payments or premiums. And 369 00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: yeah, and then there's the part about being part of 370 00:16:43,849 --> 00:16:46,820 Speaker 1: a sandwich class as well where I have to think 371 00:16:46,830 --> 00:16:48,510 Speaker 1: about kids. And I also have to take care of 372 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:49,109 Speaker 1: my elderly 373 00:16:49,119 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: parents. So there's a lot of moving parts to it. 374 00:16:51,770 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: But if you think about just term life, if you 375 00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:57,500 Speaker 2: think about insurance, buying it by itself, right? The burden 376 00:16:57,510 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: is a lot less and it's also flexible and you 377 00:16:59,650 --> 00:17:03,130 Speaker 2: can buy that to cover you up to 65 or whatever, 378 00:17:03,140 --> 00:17:04,410 Speaker 2: or 70. So 379 00:17:04,698 --> 00:17:06,438 Speaker 2: there's a lot more flexibility and the cost is a 380 00:17:06,448 --> 00:17:08,818 Speaker 2: lot lower. So that's the key. And then with investments, 381 00:17:08,828 --> 00:17:10,759 Speaker 2: if you keep them separate, you've got two buckets and 382 00:17:10,769 --> 00:17:12,489 Speaker 2: I think you have the flexibility. 383 00:17:12,499 --> 00:17:15,388 Speaker 1: So let's say I can't handle the heat of going 384 00:17:15,398 --> 00:17:19,427 Speaker 1: solo anymore. What are my options at any point in time? 385 00:17:19,438 --> 00:17:19,749 Speaker 1: What 386 00:17:19,759 --> 00:17:22,308 Speaker 2: I had mentioned earlier before, I think is just go 387 00:17:22,318 --> 00:17:26,207 Speaker 2: to a platform like very easy, very user friendly. 388 00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:30,069 Speaker 2: You go there. The fees are transparent for investing if 389 00:17:30,079 --> 00:17:32,060 Speaker 2: you want exposure to global markets, if you want a 390 00:17:32,069 --> 00:17:35,390 Speaker 2: bit of dividend income, they actually let you invest as 391 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,010 Speaker 2: little as $100 a month and putting it away or 392 00:17:38,020 --> 00:17:39,948 Speaker 2: $50 a month in some of their investing and you 393 00:17:39,959 --> 00:17:41,750 Speaker 2: can use S R S cash or C P F. 394 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,729 Speaker 2: So any of those funds are available 395 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,698 Speaker 2: and the expense ratio is very manageable. It's 0.5 or 0.6%. 396 00:17:48,959 --> 00:17:50,889 Speaker 2: And I think in Dallas has made a very good 397 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,089 Speaker 2: job of it, right? I mean, they've really appealed to 398 00:17:53,099 --> 00:17:56,099 Speaker 2: the mass and also mass premium market. People who are 399 00:17:56,109 --> 00:17:57,550 Speaker 2: a bit more wealthy and maybe have a U M 400 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,829 Speaker 2: over a million or or so and so there's something 401 00:18:00,859 --> 00:18:02,709 Speaker 2: for everyone. But if you're just studying, 402 00:18:02,805 --> 00:18:04,334 Speaker 2: yeah, I would say money is a great place to 403 00:18:04,344 --> 00:18:06,594 Speaker 2: start out because it has all the tools that you need. 404 00:18:06,604 --> 00:18:10,185 Speaker 2: It gives you a financial health assessment for a small 405 00:18:10,194 --> 00:18:12,724 Speaker 2: fee and you can kind of understand what your goals 406 00:18:12,734 --> 00:18:14,875 Speaker 2: are because I think part of the whole planning process, 407 00:18:14,885 --> 00:18:17,885 Speaker 2: you need to be transparent with what your goals are, 408 00:18:18,255 --> 00:18:20,145 Speaker 2: to be honest. Yeah, you gotta be honest with yourself 409 00:18:20,155 --> 00:18:21,494 Speaker 2: and know, know yourself. No, 410 00:18:21,839 --> 00:18:23,979 Speaker 2: if I put this budget in place, am I going 411 00:18:23,989 --> 00:18:25,750 Speaker 2: to stick to it or am I gonna move this 412 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:26,989 Speaker 2: around that? 413 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,170 Speaker 1: Which brings me to my final question, right? What kind 414 00:18:30,180 --> 00:18:35,770 Speaker 1: of personality would Diy portfolio building be best 415 00:18:35,780 --> 00:18:39,609 Speaker 2: for? I think someone who has an active interest in 416 00:18:39,619 --> 00:18:43,129 Speaker 2: it A and B is really just going to stick 417 00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:45,500 Speaker 2: to the plan, be disciplined. You have to be disciplined. 418 00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:49,189 Speaker 2: You can't deviate and then say, oh, I'm gonna sell 419 00:18:49,199 --> 00:18:51,030 Speaker 2: out or stop doing this and think about, 420 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:54,180 Speaker 2: you know, doing this instead of putting this away. Don't get, 421 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,409 Speaker 2: don't get easily distracted and stick to your plan if you, 422 00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:00,599 Speaker 2: if you can't do that or if you don't want 423 00:19:00,609 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 2: to do that, Diy, because Diy, even with building an 424 00:19:02,770 --> 00:19:05,300 Speaker 2: ETF portfolio, for example, that will take a bit of 425 00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:07,989 Speaker 2: time to research and understand even though you're buying ETF S, 426 00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:09,869 Speaker 2: you need to know what your exposure is. So I 427 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,540 Speaker 2: think it's depending on knowing yourself because I've always said 428 00:19:13,550 --> 00:19:14,409 Speaker 2: investing is very personal, 429 00:19:14,489 --> 00:19:17,569 Speaker 2: you know, what is right for me or is right 430 00:19:17,579 --> 00:19:19,969 Speaker 2: for you is not necessarily right for somebody else, right? 431 00:19:19,979 --> 00:19:23,349 Speaker 2: It's completely different. And so I can't just say you 432 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,300 Speaker 2: should go do this, I can tell you that the 433 00:19:25,310 --> 00:19:28,489 Speaker 2: whatever the biggest ETF is for the US market, that's fine, 434 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:30,430 Speaker 2: that's easy. But then you need to know how does 435 00:19:30,439 --> 00:19:31,780 Speaker 2: that work into your portfolio? 436 00:19:31,790 --> 00:19:33,770 Speaker 1: Could I just go with the pie that everyone else 437 00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:34,458 Speaker 1: is having? 438 00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:36,989 Speaker 2: You can you can just go do that but then 439 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:37,579 Speaker 2: you need to, 440 00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:39,649 Speaker 2: you need to think about your goals. And I think 441 00:19:39,660 --> 00:19:42,290 Speaker 2: a financial advisor, that's where their value is, is, is 442 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:44,900 Speaker 2: in giving you or helping you plan out your goals 443 00:19:44,910 --> 00:19:48,349 Speaker 2: where you need to make trade offs, keeping you discipline 444 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,979 Speaker 2: and stay staying in the market and not selling you products, 445 00:19:50,989 --> 00:19:52,839 Speaker 2: not selling you. This next thing, not selling 446 00:19:52,915 --> 00:19:54,853 Speaker 2: this structured product, not selling you this which is going 447 00:19:54,864 --> 00:19:58,104 Speaker 2: to get the commission. It's more about giving you options 448 00:19:58,114 --> 00:20:02,805 Speaker 2: of aggressive, moderate conservative, whatever the options are and getting 449 00:20:02,814 --> 00:20:05,744 Speaker 2: you to stick to that, right? For five years, 10 years, 450 00:20:05,755 --> 00:20:07,864 Speaker 2: 15 years. So you can meet those financial goals. 451 00:20:08,170 --> 00:20:11,540 Speaker 1: I think to summarize that if I could, Tim is 452 00:20:11,550 --> 00:20:15,020 Speaker 1: really find yourself a partner, find yourself a partner who 453 00:20:15,030 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 1: you can collaborate with and is as honest as you 454 00:20:17,729 --> 00:20:19,129 Speaker 1: are about what your financial 455 00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 2: goal should be. And if you're being sold something, ask 456 00:20:21,930 --> 00:20:27,079 Speaker 2: this person, hey, what is your super difficult interrogate him? 457 00:20:27,089 --> 00:20:29,889 Speaker 2: Just say, excuse me, what's your incentive? How are you 458 00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:30,989 Speaker 2: getting paid? I 459 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,469 Speaker 1: think it's good practice either. 460 00:20:32,594 --> 00:20:35,905 Speaker 2: It is because they're asking you to hand over your money, right? 461 00:20:35,915 --> 00:20:37,895 Speaker 2: So you should be able to ask something personal about 462 00:20:37,905 --> 00:20:40,525 Speaker 2: how they're making their money off of this whole process 463 00:20:40,535 --> 00:20:43,764 Speaker 2: because your financial wealth and happiness is super important to you, right? 464 00:20:43,775 --> 00:20:46,504 Speaker 2: You can't be podding away with your money without understanding 465 00:20:48,015 --> 00:20:52,494 Speaker 2: what you're doing. Yes. Control. Yes, certainly, certainly. 466 00:20:52,935 --> 00:20:56,944 Speaker 1: So some people I know are near allergic to financial 467 00:20:57,020 --> 00:21:00,469 Speaker 1: planners and who can blame them, right? While most people 468 00:21:00,479 --> 00:21:03,489 Speaker 1: would much rather leave the nitty gritty of investing to 469 00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:07,698 Speaker 1: someone else for a worry free experience. Others prefer to 470 00:21:07,709 --> 00:21:10,790 Speaker 1: be in control and have a very clear view of 471 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,319 Speaker 1: where their money is going. We hope that this two 472 00:21:14,329 --> 00:21:17,369 Speaker 1: part series on Financial Planning has given you a better 473 00:21:17,380 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: sense of what's right for you and what's out there 474 00:21:19,689 --> 00:21:21,369 Speaker 1: and who you can trust and turn to. 475 00:21:21,444 --> 00:21:24,275 Speaker 1: Thanks so much Tim for giving us advice on how 476 00:21:24,285 --> 00:21:26,254 Speaker 1: to navigate the investing world. 477 00:21:26,665 --> 00:21:27,125 Speaker 2: Thank you 478 00:21:27,395 --> 00:21:29,854 Speaker 1: for having me and thank you to you our listener. Now, 479 00:21:29,864 --> 00:21:32,564 Speaker 1: if you've enjoyed this episode of Money Talks, there's more 480 00:21:32,574 --> 00:21:34,925 Speaker 1: content for you to enjoy. Just follow us on Apple 481 00:21:34,935 --> 00:21:38,175 Speaker 1: podcasts or Spotify. Give us a review because we love 482 00:21:38,185 --> 00:21:41,635 Speaker 1: hearing from you. The team behind Money talks is Jacqueline Chan, 483 00:21:41,645 --> 00:21:45,514 Speaker 1: Joanne Chan Christina Robert and I'm Andrea. He.