1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: this is a C. N. A. Podcast, darling, would you 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: like to hear a joke? Okay, okay, so here goes 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,780 Speaker 1: a guy walks into a company all prepared for his interview. 4 00:00:11,789 --> 00:00:13,860 Speaker 1: He finally sits down. He goes for his interview. The 5 00:00:13,860 --> 00:00:16,220 Speaker 1: recruiter ask, do you think you have what it takes 6 00:00:16,220 --> 00:00:18,810 Speaker 1: to join our company? And the guy says, I think 7 00:00:18,810 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: I do. The recruiter goes okay to join our company. 8 00:00:22,690 --> 00:00:25,349 Speaker 1: These are the qualifications that you need first. You need 9 00:00:25,350 --> 00:00:27,770 Speaker 1: to be honest, you need to be down to earth, 10 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,980 Speaker 1: you need to be able to take on multiple shifts 11 00:00:29,990 --> 00:00:32,050 Speaker 1: and most importantly 12 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,349 Speaker 1: you need to be responsible. Do you think you have it? 13 00:00:36,340 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: The candidate pauses things for a while 14 00:00:38,740 --> 00:00:42,020 Speaker 1: and goes, yeah, I think I do According to my 15 00:00:42,020 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: last company, 16 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,470 Speaker 1: every time something went wrong, they said, you are the 17 00:00:46,470 --> 00:00:49,450 Speaker 1: one responsible for it, take responsibility for it. 18 00:00:50,140 --> 00:00:52,450 Speaker 1: So I think I do, I am a responsible person. 19 00:00:52,940 --> 00:01:00,060 Speaker 1: 2020 Singapore saw one of the lowest ratios of job 20 00:01:00,060 --> 00:01:03,820 Speaker 1: vacancies to unemployed people peeled and six for every 10 21 00:01:03,830 --> 00:01:07,140 Speaker 1: for the new graduates who just entered the job market. 22 00:01:07,150 --> 00:01:11,449 Speaker 1: It was clear that reality was not pulling punches, ambitions 23 00:01:11,450 --> 00:01:12,459 Speaker 1: were quickly scrapped 24 00:01:12,540 --> 00:01:15,790 Speaker 1: And fear was real. As the pandemic continued to evolve. 25 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: But what about last year, 2021 Nick wasn't there an 26 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: improvement in the job hunting scene? 27 00:01:20,740 --> 00:01:23,690 Speaker 1: Well, yes and no, there was two stories of broken 28 00:01:23,690 --> 00:01:27,420 Speaker 1: dreams and difficult job search among younger Singaporeans? As the 29 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:30,660 Speaker 1: economy struggled to find its footing in a pandemic forced 30 00:01:30,670 --> 00:01:33,210 Speaker 1: new normal, many were told they had to wait an 31 00:01:33,209 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: indefinite period before they could get an answer on the 32 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: job they applied for. So then how can graduates increase 33 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: the chances of letting their dream job? 34 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,070 Speaker 1: What are some of the most common mistakes graduates make 35 00:01:44,069 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: when applying for their first job? I'm lyn selling and 36 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: you're listening to a special four part series of Heart 37 00:01:49,930 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: of the matter, looking at issues close to the hearts 38 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,610 Speaker 1: of youth and I'm Nicholas, the co host for today's 39 00:01:55,610 --> 00:01:59,250 Speaker 1: special episode and a student majoring in communications and new 40 00:01:59,250 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: media 41 00:02:00,940 --> 00:02:02,910 Speaker 1: joining us today in the studio to share more on 42 00:02:02,910 --> 00:02:05,910 Speaker 1: the issue of employment. We have Adrian Tan, a frequent 43 00:02:05,910 --> 00:02:10,030 Speaker 1: commentator on CNN digital and Cheryl seen a recent geography 44 00:02:10,030 --> 00:02:12,660 Speaker 1: graduate from the National University of Singapore. 45 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,450 Speaker 1: Cheryl. Adrian, it's a pleasure to have you on the 46 00:02:15,450 --> 00:02:17,750 Speaker 1: show today. I just want to get this cracking by 47 00:02:17,750 --> 00:02:21,179 Speaker 1: telling you about this very scientific instagram pool that we did. 48 00:02:21,190 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: Two days ago we asked our Sienna followers on Instagram, 49 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,070 Speaker 1: what were the common mistakes that they made while job hunting? 50 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: And over 4300 responded the top three answers really interesting. 51 00:02:32,740 --> 00:02:35,050 Speaker 1: Number one, not preparing for job interviews. 52 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,090 Speaker 1: Number two, not doing detailed research into the prospective company 53 00:02:39,100 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: and then the last one was sending out CVS without 54 00:02:42,650 --> 00:02:46,170 Speaker 1: tailoring them. So maybe let's just get cracking into it, 55 00:02:46,180 --> 00:02:49,710 Speaker 1: sending out CVS without tailoring them. Adrian start us off, 56 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: share your thoughts about what you've just heard 57 00:02:52,169 --> 00:02:55,490 Speaker 2: this has been a problem since time in memorial. Everyone 58 00:02:55,490 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 2: goes through the same thing when I first started out 59 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,140 Speaker 2: in the career search. It's also the same thing. I 60 00:03:00,139 --> 00:03:00,649 Speaker 2: think 61 00:03:00,740 --> 00:03:03,670 Speaker 2: it is quite common when people get a job interview 62 00:03:03,669 --> 00:03:06,570 Speaker 2: opportunity they tend to think, oh I'm going to nail it, 63 00:03:06,570 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna prepare, I'm just going to turn, I'm 64 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 2: gonna win, I'm going to get it. But most of 65 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,580 Speaker 2: the time companies would also have a lot of different candidates, 66 00:03:13,580 --> 00:03:16,210 Speaker 2: a lot of different job seekers to go through. When 67 00:03:16,220 --> 00:03:18,859 Speaker 2: things become very hard to compare when you have people 68 00:03:18,860 --> 00:03:20,889 Speaker 2: of the same caliber. What are the things that would 69 00:03:20,900 --> 00:03:23,130 Speaker 2: differentiate the two of them? And usually it will be 70 00:03:23,139 --> 00:03:25,510 Speaker 2: the kind of attitude that you bring to the table. 71 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,870 Speaker 2: The kind of deep research that kind of impression that 72 00:03:27,870 --> 00:03:30,020 Speaker 2: you can make. So it's really trying to make that 73 00:03:30,020 --> 00:03:33,090 Speaker 2: first great impression. And bearing in mind is usually the 74 00:03:33,090 --> 00:03:35,740 Speaker 2: first impression that really people put a lot of weight 75 00:03:35,740 --> 00:03:39,180 Speaker 2: onto and for any job seekers that tend to go 76 00:03:39,190 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: just a little bit beyond just doing more research 77 00:03:42,340 --> 00:03:44,910 Speaker 2: to read the glass door, read some news about the company, 78 00:03:44,910 --> 00:03:47,620 Speaker 2: all these could be pointers that employers may give to you. 79 00:03:47,630 --> 00:03:50,650 Speaker 1: But what about glass door is important research there, isn't it? 80 00:03:50,650 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: Just a bunch of ex employees talking about their bosses 81 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: in a bad way. 82 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: Let me show you how we used to use Glassdoor 83 00:03:57,730 --> 00:04:00,690 Speaker 2: as headhunter. When I was still doing headhunting when we 84 00:04:00,700 --> 00:04:04,130 Speaker 2: want to look at companies, people that want to poach from, 85 00:04:04,140 --> 00:04:06,330 Speaker 2: we would usually also go to the glass door of 86 00:04:06,340 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: that company 87 00:04:07,340 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: to see exactly what are the things that people are 88 00:04:09,890 --> 00:04:13,410 Speaker 2: unhappy about. So for the company that employed that represent, 89 00:04:13,410 --> 00:04:15,660 Speaker 2: I can go ahead to the candidate and tell them, hey, 90 00:04:15,670 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: you know the employer that is interested to talk to you, 91 00:04:18,410 --> 00:04:19,550 Speaker 2: they don't have such problems 92 00:04:19,940 --> 00:04:22,380 Speaker 2: and usually the people that are speaking, how do you 93 00:04:22,380 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: know that we have such issue in the company because 94 00:04:24,410 --> 00:04:26,099 Speaker 2: if a lot of people say the same thing then 95 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 2: usually it's going to be truth. Someone said there's no 96 00:04:29,050 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: smoke without fire last. So you want to look at 97 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,310 Speaker 2: all these telltale signs. So I think to some extent 98 00:04:33,310 --> 00:04:35,010 Speaker 2: Glassdoor is still quite useful to look at but of 99 00:04:35,010 --> 00:04:37,660 Speaker 2: course don't put all your eggs in one basket, 100 00:04:37,670 --> 00:04:40,770 Speaker 1: you've really sort of given a very good introduction to 101 00:04:40,770 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: why it's important to tailor your CV. 102 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:44,990 Speaker 1: We've also heard from one C. N. A follower who 103 00:04:44,990 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: said my biggest mistake was to distribute CVS like there 104 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,700 Speaker 1: were flyers meaning I just send out as many as 105 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:54,390 Speaker 1: I could to as many recruiters, Headhunters companies sort of 106 00:04:54,390 --> 00:04:57,060 Speaker 1: like a spray and pray approach because surely someone will 107 00:04:57,060 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: call you back for sure. Right, 108 00:04:58,540 --> 00:05:02,060 Speaker 1: but why is that wrong? Is it not a safer 109 00:05:02,060 --> 00:05:05,119 Speaker 1: strategy to do that because when you spend less time 110 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: and effort to tailor your CV And also if you 111 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,630 Speaker 1: spend so much time and effort tailoring your CV, you 112 00:05:10,630 --> 00:05:13,870 Speaker 1: are sort of putting all your eggs in very few baskets. 113 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: Cheryl what has been your own experience? Like vito 114 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,930 Speaker 1: I actually cast my Net out very wide once I 115 00:05:19,930 --> 00:05:24,060 Speaker 1: graduated from uni, taylor your CV, I did that mistake, 116 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:27,310 Speaker 1: I actually didn't taylor my CV. So I actually sent 117 00:05:27,310 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: out close to 20 applications out wide of the same CV. Yes, Yeah, 118 00:05:33,250 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: I only tailored a few for the job applications that 119 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,409 Speaker 1: I really wanted to get as much as I cast 120 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:40,860 Speaker 1: my Net 121 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,100 Speaker 1: out wide. I actually knew a general direction that I 122 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:45,970 Speaker 1: wanted to go to. So there was some that you 123 00:05:45,970 --> 00:05:47,909 Speaker 1: were not very serious about and you knew and you 124 00:05:47,910 --> 00:05:49,570 Speaker 1: didn't want to spend too much effort but you just 125 00:05:49,570 --> 00:05:51,330 Speaker 1: say let me try and then I sent out this 126 00:05:51,330 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: generic cbs that it Yes, that's exactly it. Yeah, I 127 00:05:55,330 --> 00:05:58,740 Speaker 1: rather wanted to just send out as many applications that 128 00:05:58,740 --> 00:06:01,370 Speaker 1: I could rather than just send out like maybe 10 129 00:06:01,370 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: of you were 130 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,770 Speaker 1: and then hoping that they will come back to me 131 00:06:04,779 --> 00:06:06,370 Speaker 1: but you know if you get that job that you 132 00:06:06,370 --> 00:06:08,620 Speaker 1: send the generic CV to, you're not going to take 133 00:06:08,620 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: it anyway. So why bother applying? I think it's more 134 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,530 Speaker 1: of like gaining experience in terms of if I get 135 00:06:13,529 --> 00:06:16,089 Speaker 1: the interview and then how the interview goes and then 136 00:06:16,089 --> 00:06:17,050 Speaker 1: I will also get 137 00:06:17,140 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: More exposure to what kind of company culture is there 138 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,260 Speaker 1: out there and other industries as well. So you sent 139 00:06:23,270 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: 20 close to 20 Adrian, do you know what's the 140 00:06:26,610 --> 00:06:30,090 Speaker 1: average number of CVS? Our Instagram followers say they sent 141 00:06:30,089 --> 00:06:32,990 Speaker 1: out before they landed their first role. 142 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: No idea 143 00:06:33,940 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: 15-16. Is that normal? Is that the high low? I 144 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: think again, 145 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 2: it depends on the approach as mentioned earlier on. If 146 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: you take the spray and pray approach, usually you need 147 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,140 Speaker 2: to send out a lot more and to what was 148 00:06:45,140 --> 00:06:46,659 Speaker 2: asked earlier on. I think if you just 149 00:06:46,740 --> 00:06:49,969 Speaker 2: take perception as a recipient, just look at the kind 150 00:06:49,970 --> 00:06:53,150 Speaker 2: of spam that comes into your mailbox, your email box. 151 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,770 Speaker 2: Usually this kind of content, the ones that you instantly 152 00:06:55,770 --> 00:06:58,260 Speaker 2: delete or even don't bother reading. Those are the kind 153 00:06:58,260 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: of stuff that are not customized to you. 154 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,350 Speaker 2: But if you imagine that a message customized to you, 155 00:07:02,350 --> 00:07:05,250 Speaker 2: your name is in the subject title or something related 156 00:07:05,250 --> 00:07:07,250 Speaker 2: to you is mentioned in the body of the content 157 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,369 Speaker 2: that will help you to relate to the message better 158 00:07:09,370 --> 00:07:11,860 Speaker 2: and of course read through. So likewise, when a job 159 00:07:11,860 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 2: seeker apply or send in an application to a company, 160 00:07:15,250 --> 00:07:17,490 Speaker 2: they will see from the same lens if it's something 161 00:07:17,490 --> 00:07:20,010 Speaker 2: to generic, not tailored for the job. It is to 162 00:07:20,020 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 2: choose one size fits all. It is very much possible 163 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,650 Speaker 2: that they can see it through and also bearing my recruiters. 164 00:07:25,740 --> 00:07:27,750 Speaker 2: C CVS every day, 165 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,230 Speaker 2: there are dedicated talent acquisition people that their main job 166 00:07:31,230 --> 00:07:33,750 Speaker 2: is just to reach CVS every single day and every 167 00:07:33,750 --> 00:07:35,690 Speaker 2: day they could read up to 100 over CVS. 168 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:38,220 Speaker 1: So they're picking up your lack of genuine interest because 169 00:07:38,220 --> 00:07:40,190 Speaker 1: they see a generic CV. They say, well this person 170 00:07:40,190 --> 00:07:41,660 Speaker 1: is not very serious anyway, 171 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,270 Speaker 2: I don't think they really try to spot that much 172 00:07:44,270 --> 00:07:46,260 Speaker 2: of red flag because there's just so many CV to 173 00:07:46,260 --> 00:07:48,650 Speaker 2: go through. Instead, they will be sporting green flags. 174 00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:50,390 Speaker 2: So they'll be seeing the right things that you have 175 00:07:50,390 --> 00:07:52,470 Speaker 2: put inside so they can quickly scan through. Okay, this 176 00:07:52,470 --> 00:07:54,100 Speaker 2: one clear move onto the next one, move on the 177 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:55,860 Speaker 2: next one and so on so forth. And to put 178 00:07:55,860 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: in all this kind of stuff, you really have to 179 00:07:57,770 --> 00:08:01,110 Speaker 2: take into consideration one. What exactly is being mentioned in 180 00:08:01,110 --> 00:08:02,150 Speaker 2: the job posting? 181 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 2: And there are tools out there. Companies such as jobs 182 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,780 Speaker 2: can that actually scientifically happy to understand the kind of 183 00:08:07,780 --> 00:08:10,020 Speaker 2: keywords that you have in your resume that is missing 184 00:08:10,030 --> 00:08:13,210 Speaker 2: because you did not follow through and monitor what is 185 00:08:13,220 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: mentioned in the job posting? So that's one thing and 186 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: the second thing is of course different companies have different culture. 187 00:08:18,610 --> 00:08:21,460 Speaker 2: Do you embed a sense of your alignment to that culture? 188 00:08:21,470 --> 00:08:23,370 Speaker 2: So for example, if one of the company culture is 189 00:08:23,380 --> 00:08:26,510 Speaker 2: innovation are you mentioning about how innovative you are in 190 00:08:26,510 --> 00:08:29,540 Speaker 2: your school project in the past work that you've done etcetera, 191 00:08:29,540 --> 00:08:31,250 Speaker 2: etcetera because all these will be picked up as well. 192 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: Let's see now that you have a good CV, you've 193 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,190 Speaker 1: tailored it, you show that you know more about the 194 00:08:36,190 --> 00:08:38,260 Speaker 1: company that you sort of match what the company is 195 00:08:38,260 --> 00:08:41,300 Speaker 1: looking for. What's next one common advice that we've heard 196 00:08:41,309 --> 00:08:43,780 Speaker 1: is to follow up after you've sent out your job 197 00:08:43,780 --> 00:08:46,820 Speaker 1: application or in this case your tailored CV. What's the 198 00:08:46,820 --> 00:08:49,290 Speaker 1: best way to follow up with a recruiter or a 199 00:08:49,290 --> 00:08:49,949 Speaker 1: company 200 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,700 Speaker 1: since you know, you do not want to come across 201 00:08:51,700 --> 00:08:54,750 Speaker 1: as either aggressive or worse Uninterested. 202 00:08:55,140 --> 00:08:58,150 Speaker 1: And does it really demonstrate tenacity and some sort of 203 00:08:58,150 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: a quality that gives you an advantage no matter how 204 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,130 Speaker 1: small it is so that you can stand out as 205 00:09:02,130 --> 00:09:04,290 Speaker 1: a candidate in a good way to do this small 206 00:09:04,290 --> 00:09:06,570 Speaker 1: things matter job before you give us answer, let's see 207 00:09:06,570 --> 00:09:08,540 Speaker 1: what Cheryl did to follow up. Did you follow up 208 00:09:08,540 --> 00:09:11,570 Speaker 1: after you send out your 20 CVS 20 I didn't 209 00:09:11,570 --> 00:09:13,260 Speaker 1: follow up for 20 emails, 210 00:09:13,340 --> 00:09:15,350 Speaker 1: but I did follow up for a few, 211 00:09:15,540 --> 00:09:19,860 Speaker 1: Maybe 5-7 companies, but 212 00:09:20,340 --> 00:09:21,060 Speaker 1: I don't think 213 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,309 Speaker 1: for the 5 to 7 companies itself, they did come 214 00:09:24,309 --> 00:09:27,370 Speaker 1: back with me for a few interviews, but then again, 215 00:09:27,370 --> 00:09:29,850 Speaker 1: I didn't feel like the company was the right fit 216 00:09:29,860 --> 00:09:31,660 Speaker 1: as well for some people, but would you say there 217 00:09:31,660 --> 00:09:33,530 Speaker 1: was a difference, like the companies that you followed up 218 00:09:33,530 --> 00:09:35,810 Speaker 1: with then they responded quicker or then maybe those that 219 00:09:35,809 --> 00:09:38,270 Speaker 1: you didn't follow up within the sort of. Yeah actually 220 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,150 Speaker 1: definitely like following up might actually help 221 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:41,660 Speaker 1: which 222 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: I think at that point of time I didn't really 223 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,590 Speaker 1: realize that it forces them to respond to you right 224 00:09:46,590 --> 00:09:49,470 Speaker 1: as a human being Adrian, what do you think? How 225 00:09:49,470 --> 00:09:50,790 Speaker 1: was the best way to follow up? So it's not 226 00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:53,710 Speaker 1: so weird and awkward because you're not sure right how 227 00:09:53,710 --> 00:09:54,660 Speaker 1: aggressive you should be? 228 00:09:54,670 --> 00:09:57,290 Speaker 2: Yeah firstly I think following up into this context can 229 00:09:57,290 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: be quite challenging because if you notice a lot of 230 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 2: your application that you put through are actually through a 231 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:01,860 Speaker 2: form 232 00:10:02,140 --> 00:10:03,820 Speaker 2: you don't even know who is the recruiter at the 233 00:10:03,820 --> 00:10:04,260 Speaker 2: back end 234 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: unless of course you go and do some C. S. I. 235 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,330 Speaker 2: On linkedin and do some guesstimate on who that recruiter 236 00:10:09,330 --> 00:10:11,670 Speaker 2: might be to. What you mentioned about following up that 237 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,390 Speaker 2: is good practice. So what I would advise is gold 238 00:10:14,390 --> 00:10:17,290 Speaker 2: on linkedin just mentioned that you have submitted your CV. 239 00:10:17,290 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: Really interested to show that you really put this company 240 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,050 Speaker 2: as a top priority if that is the case. 241 00:10:22,140 --> 00:10:22,370 Speaker 2: But 242 00:10:22,370 --> 00:10:23,590 Speaker 1: having said that recruiter 243 00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:25,550 Speaker 2: also have to fulfill the KPI given by the hiring 244 00:10:25,550 --> 00:10:27,900 Speaker 2: manager which means they have to find a good fit. 245 00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:30,780 Speaker 2: So assuming that you do not have the expertise, you 246 00:10:30,780 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 2: do not have the skill sets that are looking for 247 00:10:32,570 --> 00:10:35,780 Speaker 2: no amount of follow up would help you with that issue. 248 00:10:35,790 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: So it still takes a bit of balance on the 249 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:40,460 Speaker 2: kind of substance that you have 250 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,670 Speaker 2: and of course going through to speak with the recruiter 251 00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:45,340 Speaker 2: to tell them, hey, you know, I've done something A 252 00:10:45,340 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 2: more useful method would really be to identify if you 253 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,620 Speaker 2: have any soft connections in that company and get those 254 00:10:51,620 --> 00:10:54,050 Speaker 2: soft connections to help you make a referral. Because there 255 00:10:54,050 --> 00:10:56,850 Speaker 2: have been studies shown that employee referral actually is the 256 00:10:56,850 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: main source of good, higher and because if someone within 257 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: the company there to stick their name on you, it 258 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,970 Speaker 2: says a lot because nobody would want to recommend that 259 00:11:04,970 --> 00:11:08,510 Speaker 2: crazy neighbor into the company with that recruiters, hiring manager 260 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:09,459 Speaker 2: is more assured 261 00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:11,970 Speaker 2: that okay, this one must be quite okay. Let me 262 00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:12,939 Speaker 2: talk to him or her. 263 00:11:12,950 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: But what do you use to gauge whether you can 264 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,829 Speaker 1: reach out to someone in that company because sometimes those 265 00:11:18,830 --> 00:11:20,780 Speaker 1: people are not people that you know for a long 266 00:11:20,780 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: time it could be say this fella in secondary school 267 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,989 Speaker 1: who I haven't seen for 20 over years, am I 268 00:11:25,990 --> 00:11:27,660 Speaker 1: really going to reach out to him and how do 269 00:11:27,660 --> 00:11:29,660 Speaker 1: I catch it? Such as I don't seem desperate 270 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,830 Speaker 2: to your point. I guess it also depends on how 271 00:11:31,830 --> 00:11:34,150 Speaker 2: much you really want the job. How I would usually 272 00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:36,610 Speaker 2: advise and I was doing career coaching last time is 273 00:11:36,620 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: I would advise to approach these people and tell them, hey, 274 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,530 Speaker 2: you know, I'm actually looking for something within your industry, 275 00:11:42,540 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: did some research. I just realized that you happened to 276 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,030 Speaker 2: be in it, Can I buy you coffee and get 277 00:11:46,030 --> 00:11:48,270 Speaker 2: some career advice from you instead of going straight and 278 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: asked can I get a job, 279 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: can you make a recommendation because there's too much of 280 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: a hard sell and people would just treat you like, oh, 281 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,819 Speaker 2: you want some insurance, is it? You want to take 282 00:11:56,820 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: the most of the approach and usually people who are 283 00:11:59,929 --> 00:12:03,730 Speaker 2: at quite a stable career, you also realize psychologically everyone 284 00:12:03,730 --> 00:12:05,100 Speaker 2: loves to give advice, Everyone 285 00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:05,930 Speaker 1: loves to be that 286 00:12:05,929 --> 00:12:07,179 Speaker 2: guru that people come 287 00:12:07,179 --> 00:12:08,109 Speaker 1: to for advice. 288 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 2: So if you were to just be a bit humble 289 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,310 Speaker 2: to the humble pie, can I get your advice please? 290 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:13,990 Speaker 2: I think you will show their ego and of course 291 00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:14,660 Speaker 2: they will try to help you? 292 00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:15,030 Speaker 2: You 293 00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:17,540 Speaker 1: might learn something about the company as well. Right, Just 294 00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:18,490 Speaker 1: to go back to what you said just now you 295 00:12:18,490 --> 00:12:21,380 Speaker 1: said rather than to prioritize following up on the company, 296 00:12:21,380 --> 00:12:23,780 Speaker 1: it's more important to showcase your strengths on your CV. 297 00:12:23,790 --> 00:12:26,020 Speaker 1: So this is also another common advice that we heard, 298 00:12:26,030 --> 00:12:28,150 Speaker 1: which was to know your strengths 299 00:12:28,540 --> 00:12:30,330 Speaker 1: so that, you know, when you tailor your CV, you 300 00:12:30,330 --> 00:12:32,260 Speaker 1: can bring out what's your best traits and then also 301 00:12:32,260 --> 00:12:34,570 Speaker 1: you can slay all the interviews, but at the same 302 00:12:34,570 --> 00:12:37,670 Speaker 1: time it just sounds a bit generic, maybe Cheryl, could 303 00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:39,329 Speaker 1: you break it down for us, How did you apply 304 00:12:39,330 --> 00:12:41,310 Speaker 1: that in your efforts when you're trying to land your 305 00:12:41,309 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: first job in my CV wise 306 00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:46,690 Speaker 1: only for the ones that I tailored for the company, 307 00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:49,730 Speaker 1: like what Adrian said, I actually tried to look through 308 00:12:49,730 --> 00:12:52,329 Speaker 1: like the job description and trying to put in all 309 00:12:52,330 --> 00:12:55,500 Speaker 1: the keywords that they have mentioned as well. One of 310 00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: the difficulties that may be fresh grads do experience when 311 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,140 Speaker 1: they're trying to put out their CVS out there is 312 00:13:01,150 --> 00:13:04,850 Speaker 1: translating the experience or the skills that you've learned in 313 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,370 Speaker 1: university, like through projects or maybe through your CC A 314 00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:11,900 Speaker 1: into some form of relevant experience that you can showcase 315 00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:15,630 Speaker 1: to employers personally. That was what I struggled with when 316 00:13:15,630 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: I was trying to develop my CV properly. But what 317 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,859 Speaker 1: I did was basically trying to pick up 318 00:13:21,940 --> 00:13:24,510 Speaker 1: the key words of job descriptions and try to match 319 00:13:24,510 --> 00:13:26,950 Speaker 1: it with whatever experience that I had, whether it was 320 00:13:26,950 --> 00:13:31,189 Speaker 1: through CC A through clubs or through like university projects 321 00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: that I've been on. 322 00:13:32,340 --> 00:13:34,460 Speaker 1: So how would you showcase that in your CV? 323 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, like specifically like the phrases, but um, 324 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:39,949 Speaker 1: what I would do is, let's say I was in 325 00:13:39,950 --> 00:13:43,570 Speaker 1: cross country team because I have an athletic background, I 326 00:13:43,570 --> 00:13:46,140 Speaker 1: will actually amplify like the soft skills that I have had, 327 00:13:46,140 --> 00:13:49,390 Speaker 1: like discipline to turn up for training and some form 328 00:13:49,390 --> 00:13:52,780 Speaker 1: of resilience and whatnot on this note, right? And I 329 00:13:52,780 --> 00:13:54,460 Speaker 1: think that I sort of realized that 330 00:13:54,540 --> 00:13:57,290 Speaker 1: my generation, me and Cheryl's generation that we have in 331 00:13:57,290 --> 00:13:59,850 Speaker 1: common not to draw a line here, but 332 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: what we've noticed is that there's this trend now, it's 333 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,010 Speaker 1: called like side hustles right to really get as many 334 00:14:05,010 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: side houses as you can. So that includes that. What 335 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: she mentioned joining all the clubs are different CCS volunteering 336 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,030 Speaker 1: doing projects, maybe even out of school actually, yes, that 337 00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:16,540 Speaker 1: can be seen as a strength, but also might sometimes 338 00:14:16,540 --> 00:14:17,250 Speaker 1: suggest that, 339 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,140 Speaker 1: you know, you have so many things going on. You're 340 00:14:19,140 --> 00:14:21,660 Speaker 1: just basically a jack of all trades, but a master 341 00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:25,060 Speaker 1: of none could work against you or against you. Exactly. 342 00:14:25,140 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: I think it depends on how you publicize yourself because 343 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,540 Speaker 2: you can do all your side hustles quietly but loudly 344 00:14:31,540 --> 00:14:32,660 Speaker 2: just publicize one of them. 345 00:14:33,140 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: So that will help you to drive specific focus. And 346 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: I'm very big into side hustles because side hustles basically 347 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,790 Speaker 2: got me my previous two jobs and I basically did 348 00:14:43,790 --> 00:14:46,030 Speaker 2: a lot of content, a lot of writing and that 349 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: basically led to a lot of publicity, a lot of 350 00:14:49,410 --> 00:14:51,950 Speaker 2: awareness and that's how one thing leads to another. 351 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: It is still a good thing to get those high 352 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: households and 353 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,430 Speaker 2: you don't even need to be that intentional. I never 354 00:14:56,430 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: started out as being intentional about it, but it's things 355 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 2: that you get along the way that people you get 356 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,740 Speaker 2: to know and most importantly the skills and experience that 357 00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:05,860 Speaker 2: you gain over time, 358 00:15:05,870 --> 00:15:07,890 Speaker 1: but you know, when you talk about side hustles, right? 359 00:15:07,900 --> 00:15:10,250 Speaker 1: It's sometimes it's not really about doing a lot of 360 00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: things and everything, it's maybe having a focus, are you 361 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,060 Speaker 1: trying to build a brand? What's your thinking? When you 362 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,750 Speaker 1: say you start a side hustle, what's your goal and 363 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: your priorities and your objectives. 364 00:15:19,450 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 2: It really depends on what is your intent behind it. 365 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,670 Speaker 2: For some people said households, basically just a way to 366 00:15:24,670 --> 00:15:27,119 Speaker 2: make ends meet maybe on the side, I go and drive, 367 00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:29,370 Speaker 2: grab block, I go and do some web design work 368 00:15:29,380 --> 00:15:32,250 Speaker 2: or help people balance their books, do some bookkeeping. 369 00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:34,330 Speaker 2: So those are things that you can do just to 370 00:15:34,340 --> 00:15:36,700 Speaker 2: get money in. But if you want to be a 371 00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:38,970 Speaker 2: bit more intentional to build up your brand then of 372 00:15:38,970 --> 00:15:41,150 Speaker 2: course you have to go into a specific direction. 373 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,130 Speaker 2: But for myself, when I started writing I actually wrote 374 00:15:44,140 --> 00:15:47,710 Speaker 2: so many different stuff, I started writing on entrepreneurship, recruitment, 375 00:15:47,710 --> 00:15:50,740 Speaker 2: career management, even to one extent, even parenting, 376 00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:51,970 Speaker 1: then I realized 377 00:15:51,970 --> 00:15:54,250 Speaker 2: on my website to roja really lie and started to 378 00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:57,260 Speaker 2: spin off and slowly, one by one, I started to 379 00:15:57,270 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: Canada and eventually I kept at HR technology 380 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,060 Speaker 2: and again it wasn't also intentional because 381 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: I was looking at HR tech entrepreneurship, someone told me, 382 00:16:05,770 --> 00:16:07,410 Speaker 2: oh you know, it would be great if I have 383 00:16:07,410 --> 00:16:09,630 Speaker 2: your asset on the HR tech side and it got 384 00:16:09,630 --> 00:16:12,490 Speaker 2: me thinking maybe entrepreneurship I can drop it lock, there's 385 00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:14,890 Speaker 2: definitely people who can write a lot more in that 386 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:17,460 Speaker 2: domain and I chose HR tech because if you go 387 00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:19,740 Speaker 2: on to google and search HR tech back then I 388 00:16:19,740 --> 00:16:21,900 Speaker 2: think I can score page one number one very easily, 389 00:16:21,910 --> 00:16:23,060 Speaker 2: which I did at one point in time, 390 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: things just snowballed from there, 391 00:16:24,810 --> 00:16:27,250 Speaker 1: knowing you're the landscape in there for what your strengths are. 392 00:16:27,490 --> 00:16:28,250 Speaker 1: And over time 393 00:16:28,250 --> 00:16:30,210 Speaker 2: people see me as the go to expert for all 394 00:16:30,210 --> 00:16:32,430 Speaker 2: HR tech stuff and things just built on from that. 395 00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:32,750 Speaker 2: So 396 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,900 Speaker 2: again, did not start out intentional, it's just an area 397 00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:38,620 Speaker 2: for me to express my interest in writing, but over 398 00:16:38,620 --> 00:16:40,570 Speaker 2: time you can try to figure out how do I 399 00:16:40,570 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: then try to connect the other dots? 400 00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: What about the flip side of the coin? You know, 401 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,510 Speaker 1: your strengths, you know how to connect the dots, what 402 00:16:46,510 --> 00:16:49,850 Speaker 1: about your weaknesses? So this is an interesting topic 403 00:16:49,940 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: and I've heard career advisors say that you should try 404 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:52,970 Speaker 1: to clean up 405 00:16:53,140 --> 00:16:55,850 Speaker 1: your online presence, especially when it comes to like maybe 406 00:16:55,860 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: maybe linkedin I guess, you know, like just like you 407 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: mentioned use linkedin do some sort of stalking and try 408 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,190 Speaker 1: to connect with new employers, but how do you clean 409 00:17:04,190 --> 00:17:07,230 Speaker 1: up your online presence? Like how do you remove your 410 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,140 Speaker 1: internet footprint without making you feel like you're not being 411 00:17:10,140 --> 00:17:12,490 Speaker 1: who you are and you have to do that Cheryl? 412 00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: Um I didn't really create my linkedin until I was 413 00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: halfway through uni 414 00:17:18,740 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: and I realized that it's quite important for getting internships 415 00:17:22,010 --> 00:17:25,180 Speaker 1: and also like for future job preferences? I've only started 416 00:17:25,190 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: to professionally put in all my profiles and experiences on 417 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,630 Speaker 1: linkedin in year 32, year four of university. Actually, I'm 418 00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: also quite curious like how important it is to have 419 00:17:35,690 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: a professional preference online. 420 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,070 Speaker 1: But would you say you're very, very cautious when it 421 00:17:39,070 --> 00:17:40,350 Speaker 1: comes to posting on linkedin? 422 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,950 Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess, you know, instagram and stuff. Yeah, 423 00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:46,410 Speaker 1: I think I'm not posted anything on linkedin until maybe 424 00:17:46,410 --> 00:17:48,310 Speaker 1: I joined impact and then I had to help the 425 00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:50,790 Speaker 1: company hey, but I think people would also look at 426 00:17:50,790 --> 00:17:53,750 Speaker 1: your instagram. No, not just linkedin. So you also might 427 00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:55,450 Speaker 1: want to be careful about your instagram though. Did you 428 00:17:55,450 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: have to curate anything? Not really. I'm not sure if 429 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: it's a mistake, but I didn't really take on instagram. Yeah, 430 00:18:03,050 --> 00:18:05,740 Speaker 1: too late already. She's already can 431 00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:08,609 Speaker 2: find because usually when it comes to your instagram handle 432 00:18:08,609 --> 00:18:10,350 Speaker 2: is always some weird funny names. 433 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,620 Speaker 1: You won't be able to relate my instagram name is 434 00:18:12,619 --> 00:18:14,550 Speaker 1: not my name. Okay, 435 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,980 Speaker 1: but did you have any advice Adrian on like do 436 00:18:16,980 --> 00:18:20,010 Speaker 1: we really have to scrub out our online presence and 437 00:18:20,010 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: curate all these. I have seen 438 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,770 Speaker 2: firsthand that recruited the first thing that they do after 439 00:18:24,940 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 2: having a sense that you are an okay candidate, they 440 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 2: will go to facebook, they will go to linkedin to 441 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,790 Speaker 2: do some informal CS island, 442 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:33,940 Speaker 1: what are you looking for? 443 00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:36,369 Speaker 2: I honestly, I'm not really sure because what can you 444 00:18:36,369 --> 00:18:38,070 Speaker 2: really tell? I mean? So what if you have a 445 00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:40,449 Speaker 2: drunk photo on facebook that doesn't represent much and of 446 00:18:40,450 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 2: course people nowadays won't be so stupid to do that. 447 00:18:42,810 --> 00:18:44,050 Speaker 2: They just want to 448 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,970 Speaker 2: get a better sense of you as a person on 449 00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:48,850 Speaker 2: the things that you said, the things that you've done, 450 00:18:48,859 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 2: I think it's really again trying to identify red 451 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:52,270 Speaker 1: flags. So 452 00:18:52,270 --> 00:18:55,620 Speaker 2: for example, if they go to your facebook and you 453 00:18:55,619 --> 00:18:59,060 Speaker 2: happen to make some stupid comment on, you know, maybe 454 00:18:59,060 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 2: some racist stuff or whatever, then obviously your employer want 455 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,060 Speaker 2: to stay away from you as far as possible. 456 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,449 Speaker 2: But again, into this context. Well, firstly younger generation, they 457 00:19:08,450 --> 00:19:09,590 Speaker 2: don't use facebook anymore. 458 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:10,530 Speaker 1: It's very hard 459 00:19:10,530 --> 00:19:13,850 Speaker 2: for anyone to identify who you are on instagram linkedin 460 00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:15,949 Speaker 2: of course is different because in linkedin you have to 461 00:19:15,950 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: use a true persona and but then because of that, 462 00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:21,290 Speaker 2: people would be a bit more cautious. Like you mentioned 463 00:19:21,290 --> 00:19:24,550 Speaker 2: Cheryl on linkedin to post things that they would think 464 00:19:24,550 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 2: true La, 465 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,140 Speaker 2: they will make sure to put on their fake news 466 00:19:27,140 --> 00:19:29,490 Speaker 2: filter and all that just to ensure that the things 467 00:19:29,490 --> 00:19:30,060 Speaker 2: that they put out 468 00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:33,139 Speaker 2: will not get flame or anything like that to a 469 00:19:33,140 --> 00:19:35,670 Speaker 2: large extent. It really doesn't work that much in today's 470 00:19:35,670 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: context because people are already aware of all these things 471 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,550 Speaker 1: happening. 472 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: So one area of concern that people always wonder whether 473 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: they should flag on their CV or try to beautify 474 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,530 Speaker 1: a little bit is gap years during my time when 475 00:19:53,530 --> 00:19:55,230 Speaker 1: people did take Gabby, it was kind of around the 476 00:19:55,230 --> 00:19:56,850 Speaker 1: pond and people thought that 477 00:19:56,940 --> 00:19:59,449 Speaker 1: why are you going away and doing your own thing? 478 00:19:59,450 --> 00:20:02,390 Speaker 1: It suggests that your own priorities might be more important 479 00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:04,770 Speaker 1: than any other organization that you might join 480 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,570 Speaker 1: after when it's something they struggle with when you have 481 00:20:07,570 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: a gap here in your CV as well. So how 482 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,580 Speaker 1: would you advise people position themselves when they do have 483 00:20:13,580 --> 00:20:15,820 Speaker 1: that gap here? How do they talk about it to 484 00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:18,660 Speaker 1: the recruiter because they'll definitely come up right. Did you 485 00:20:18,660 --> 00:20:21,510 Speaker 1: experience that Cheryl, did your friends have gap years? I 486 00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:24,179 Speaker 1: have a friend currently going to take a gap year 487 00:20:24,190 --> 00:20:27,110 Speaker 1: and I think right now she's not worried about how 488 00:20:27,109 --> 00:20:28,060 Speaker 1: it's gonna turn out 489 00:20:28,140 --> 00:20:30,750 Speaker 1: closer to when she starts applying, she might have to 490 00:20:30,750 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: start thinking about how to pose it as a strength 491 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: of hers. But it doesn't stop anyone from taking a 492 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,270 Speaker 1: cab here. It doesn't, I don't think it does. Yeah, 493 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:39,650 Speaker 1: so how Adrian, 494 00:20:39,660 --> 00:20:43,460 Speaker 2: unfortunately in Singapore context, I've seen many instances where employers 495 00:20:43,460 --> 00:20:46,790 Speaker 2: will from upon gap year or for any kind of 496 00:20:46,790 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: gaps and it may not even be from a young 497 00:20:50,090 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 2: job seeker, I've seen cases where of course people are 498 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 2: unemployed for a long period of time 499 00:20:54,740 --> 00:20:57,990 Speaker 2: and I've also seen mothers who quit because the sun 500 00:20:57,990 --> 00:21:00,170 Speaker 2: taking PSLV that year so I just want to be 501 00:21:00,170 --> 00:21:01,270 Speaker 2: full time tuition teacher 502 00:21:01,540 --> 00:21:03,670 Speaker 2: and when they tried to make the entrance back into 503 00:21:03,670 --> 00:21:05,710 Speaker 2: the workforce, it was very tough. I remember speaking to 504 00:21:05,710 --> 00:21:08,060 Speaker 2: a banking headhunter and he was telling me, oh my 505 00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:11,030 Speaker 2: customers would not want to see any candidate that has 506 00:21:11,030 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 2: been unemployed for more than three months. 507 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,460 Speaker 2: Like why? Oh, it's just, they insist they feel that 508 00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: anything more than three months you are rusty air quotes rusty. 509 00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:23,540 Speaker 2: It is very illogical. In my opinion. The good thing 510 00:21:23,550 --> 00:21:26,190 Speaker 2: I would say right now is because of our shrinking population, 511 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 2: you don't really have that much supply of talent, 512 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,420 Speaker 2: employers can continue to be so stubborn and so silly, 513 00:21:31,420 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 2: but over time they realize they don't really have a 514 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 2: choice for job seekers. It is of course important for 515 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,090 Speaker 2: you to state that you do have a gap here 516 00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 2: and also more crucially to put in exactly what you 517 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,210 Speaker 2: have learned during that period. Of course, if you're learning is, 518 00:21:44,220 --> 00:21:47,770 Speaker 2: I've learned how to really score on Fortnite, 519 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 2: then you may have to think through a lot. You know, 520 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,469 Speaker 2: clearly what else can you write a lot, you know, 521 00:21:51,470 --> 00:21:53,500 Speaker 2: not just about or I know how to flip to 522 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:56,450 Speaker 2: the right channel on netflix in one second kind of stuff. 523 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,010 Speaker 2: Something tangible. Something that could be useful for you because 524 00:21:59,010 --> 00:22:00,220 Speaker 2: the narrative is really up to you to 525 00:22:00,220 --> 00:22:03,950 Speaker 1: control. I'm curious because gap years doesn't really mean that 526 00:22:03,950 --> 00:22:07,530 Speaker 1: your slacker, you're going around doing nothing. Sometimes it means important, 527 00:22:07,530 --> 00:22:10,330 Speaker 1: priorities are being taken care of. Like you mentioned whether 528 00:22:10,330 --> 00:22:12,990 Speaker 1: it's parenting, whether it's taking time off to do some 529 00:22:12,990 --> 00:22:13,949 Speaker 1: volunteer work 530 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,770 Speaker 1: and that person should be seen as someone who has 531 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 1: a sense of who they are, what they want, a 532 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: good sense of balance and priorities shouldn't a gap year 533 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:22,910 Speaker 1: be a plus. 534 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,790 Speaker 2: It depends on how enlightened employers are on the hiring 535 00:22:25,790 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: managers are as we move along, we have of course 536 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,910 Speaker 2: younger younger hiring managers who are more enlightened there more 537 00:22:31,910 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 2: okay with things like remote work and all that and 538 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: this kind of arrangements and more cognizant of the fact 539 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,479 Speaker 2: that actually, you know, I'm not expecting my employee to 540 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:40,770 Speaker 2: be with me for life, 541 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: then they'll be much open to all this kind of scenario, 542 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,590 Speaker 2: especially if they themselves imagine your friend, if he or 543 00:22:46,590 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 2: she happens to become a hiring manager in the future 544 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,510 Speaker 2: here. She has taken gap year before for her to 545 00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:53,449 Speaker 2: look at someone who has also taken a gap, there 546 00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:55,310 Speaker 2: is nothing in fact they will have much more things 547 00:22:55,310 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 2: to 548 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: relate to. So I guess we can expect a shift 549 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,909 Speaker 1: basically so that in the future this might actually be 550 00:22:59,910 --> 00:23:01,670 Speaker 1: the new normal. This is interesting here. 551 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,050 Speaker 1: Another mistake that we've heard was not preparing enough for 552 00:23:05,050 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: interviews now with google and everything, you can easily find 553 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,389 Speaker 1: more questions online, so easy to find them what your 554 00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:14,149 Speaker 1: biggest strengths weaknesses, your leadership qualities and stuff like that, 555 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,030 Speaker 1: but is that enough? Like just going online searching for 556 00:23:17,030 --> 00:23:20,370 Speaker 1: the generic interview questions actually share. We mentioned that you 557 00:23:20,380 --> 00:23:21,770 Speaker 1: applied for so many different jobs 558 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: and those are actually training for you because every interview 559 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,490 Speaker 1: you went for was sort of like a training was 560 00:23:26,490 --> 00:23:30,460 Speaker 1: effective towards the end of me applying for all the 561 00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:34,490 Speaker 1: applications and the job interviews. One by one I sort 562 00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: of developed a template for myself on like the common 563 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,619 Speaker 1: questions that each recruiters would actually ask and then I 564 00:23:41,619 --> 00:23:44,190 Speaker 1: would build on that the last few interviews that I've 565 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,070 Speaker 1: been on I would actually tailor it towards what they 566 00:23:47,070 --> 00:23:48,050 Speaker 1: are seeking for 567 00:23:48,140 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: of an employee out of me. But you can't do 568 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,909 Speaker 1: that for scenario based questions though that's specific to the 569 00:23:52,910 --> 00:23:56,649 Speaker 1: company enroll. That's the surprise questions and I can only 570 00:23:56,650 --> 00:23:59,670 Speaker 1: get as ready as I can which would then be 571 00:23:59,670 --> 00:24:02,689 Speaker 1: actually researching on what the organization does or what the 572 00:24:02,690 --> 00:24:06,090 Speaker 1: company does. And then also trying to tease out like 573 00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:06,770 Speaker 1: my 574 00:24:07,140 --> 00:24:11,850 Speaker 1: interviewers profile if they have on linkedin facebook or whatever 575 00:24:11,850 --> 00:24:14,260 Speaker 1: that I can get what's the best way to prepare 576 00:24:14,260 --> 00:24:16,740 Speaker 1: you think Adrian for interviews. People say they're not prepared 577 00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:18,380 Speaker 1: enough so what is the right way to do it 578 00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:21,740 Speaker 2: besides interview questions? You even have platforms nowadays they can 579 00:24:21,740 --> 00:24:24,930 Speaker 2: help you conduct your interview. You can even pay people 580 00:24:24,940 --> 00:24:25,770 Speaker 2: to interview you 581 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 2: I've seen the website, remember the name but it's specific 582 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:29,850 Speaker 2: for software developers 583 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 2: so you can pay other more senior software developers may 584 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,530 Speaker 2: be C. T. O. V. P. I. T. To pretend 585 00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:37,459 Speaker 2: to be the interviewer and to go through the interview 586 00:24:37,460 --> 00:24:39,899 Speaker 2: with you. That's how high stake it is for them. 587 00:24:39,910 --> 00:24:42,149 Speaker 2: So those are things that you can do. But to 588 00:24:42,150 --> 00:24:44,290 Speaker 2: what you mentioned earlier on of course you want to 589 00:24:44,290 --> 00:24:46,090 Speaker 2: make sure that you cover all grounds when it comes 590 00:24:46,090 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 2: to the standard questions just now where we're talking about strength. 591 00:24:49,340 --> 00:24:51,140 Speaker 2: Now what do you think? It's a good way to answer? 592 00:24:51,140 --> 00:24:53,580 Speaker 2: What is your strength to me? You don't even need 593 00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 2: to answer because if I were to do it I 594 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,210 Speaker 2: would beforehand go and take a strength finder test. You 595 00:24:58,210 --> 00:25:01,169 Speaker 2: have companies like Clifton's 20 bucks us dollar if you 596 00:25:01,170 --> 00:25:03,470 Speaker 2: want free one, you go to Red bull ring finder 597 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,290 Speaker 2: also strength test. So if I'm the candidate, I will 598 00:25:06,290 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: tell you all my strength. This is what Clinton 599 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: said. five strengths. Yeah, 600 00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:12,210 Speaker 2: because there's no way you can dispute that. If you 601 00:25:12,210 --> 00:25:14,750 Speaker 2: were to dispute that you're disputing Clifton's, you're not disputing me. 602 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 2: So that would really help you to score one for 603 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,980 Speaker 2: scenario based into this context. For the more enlightened companies, 604 00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:24,869 Speaker 2: a lot of scenario questions would be given to you 605 00:25:24,869 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: as an assignment 606 00:25:26,140 --> 00:25:28,370 Speaker 1: because in an actual workplace, nobody 607 00:25:28,369 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 2: expect you to tell me the answer. Now now now 608 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:30,830 Speaker 2: now no 609 00:25:30,830 --> 00:25:31,910 Speaker 1: one says that anymore. 610 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 2: People will tell you well maybe 611 00:25:33,410 --> 00:25:35,170 Speaker 1: maybe for your line 612 00:25:35,170 --> 00:25:36,290 Speaker 2: of business but for 613 00:25:36,290 --> 00:25:37,330 Speaker 1: many cases I've seen. 614 00:25:37,340 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 2: okay, this is our problem statement, you'll have three days 615 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,450 Speaker 2: one week to come back with a proposal with the 616 00:25:42,450 --> 00:25:43,859 Speaker 2: presentation so on and so forth. 617 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,169 Speaker 2: Most companies should do that for companies. That doesn't expect 618 00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:49,780 Speaker 2: you to give an answer on the spot to me. 619 00:25:49,790 --> 00:25:52,210 Speaker 2: A lot of all these instances really trying to think 620 00:25:52,210 --> 00:25:54,630 Speaker 2: of the answers that they are expecting as I used 621 00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:57,260 Speaker 2: to tell people, you don't list down the answers given 622 00:25:57,260 --> 00:25:59,020 Speaker 2: in the text book you list. Now the answer that 623 00:25:59,030 --> 00:26:01,859 Speaker 2: your lecturer want to see because he ultimately will be 624 00:26:01,859 --> 00:26:02,770 Speaker 2: marking your paper. 625 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 2: So what do you think they want to see from 626 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 2: this instance? If they would ask you all, can you 627 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,730 Speaker 2: relate to me a stressful environment, someone in your team slacking, 628 00:26:11,730 --> 00:26:13,860 Speaker 2: but you still have to chase up on the project. 629 00:26:13,869 --> 00:26:15,340 Speaker 2: So basically what they're trying to find out there, trying 630 00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 2: to find out how do you manage the situation, your 631 00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:20,020 Speaker 2: interpersonal skills and still at the same time trying to 632 00:26:20,020 --> 00:26:22,580 Speaker 2: meet company objective. End of the day, it's all about 633 00:26:22,580 --> 00:26:25,830 Speaker 2: company objective with the least amount of damage. So those 634 00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:27,350 Speaker 2: are the things that you should just have to take 635 00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 2: note of. 636 00:26:27,650 --> 00:26:29,310 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know a friend who wants to me that 637 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: she received a scenario based questions, something like you said 638 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: it was a past that she had to complete. 639 00:26:33,340 --> 00:26:35,830 Speaker 1: The only issue was she was not given a deadline 640 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,950 Speaker 1: and when she asked, how much time do I have 641 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,850 Speaker 1: the interviewer responded, 642 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,590 Speaker 1: you decide that feels kind of intimidating. How would you 643 00:26:42,590 --> 00:26:44,700 Speaker 1: recommend my friend to go through that process 644 00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:49,260 Speaker 2: firstly for all these kind of interesting interview scenario, I 645 00:26:49,260 --> 00:26:51,510 Speaker 2: dare say in most instances if you go glass store, 646 00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:54,340 Speaker 2: you can find because most people, whenever they go through 647 00:26:54,340 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: some interesting or some 648 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,370 Speaker 2: not normal interview scenario, people will put on the glass door. 649 00:26:59,380 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 2: I'm assuming that this company is you know, somewhat well known. 650 00:27:01,930 --> 00:27:03,630 Speaker 2: Then you can find out of course what people have 651 00:27:03,630 --> 00:27:04,260 Speaker 2: done before 652 00:27:04,540 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 2: and oh I submitted in two weeks on one week, 653 00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:09,490 Speaker 2: average it out. Okay so it's one week that maybe 654 00:27:09,490 --> 00:27:12,150 Speaker 2: to impress them. I submit in five days. I do 655 00:27:12,150 --> 00:27:14,250 Speaker 2: it less than one week. So those are the kind 656 00:27:14,250 --> 00:27:16,090 Speaker 2: of benchmark you want. It's like when you go in 657 00:27:16,090 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 2: for a salary negotiation, if you have 658 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,390 Speaker 1: no benchmark, no 659 00:27:19,390 --> 00:27:21,670 Speaker 2: anchor, you do not know what is your network. 660 00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 2: Instead. You can go to payscale dot com. You can 661 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 2: go to salary board dot com. M O M also 662 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,550 Speaker 2: have some information. I think all the university also has 663 00:27:28,550 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 2: this employee graduate survey thing. 664 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: Then you have some benchmark mark. Then you can go 665 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 2: in with information on your back. Okay, this is how 666 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,660 Speaker 2: much I want, you need those kind of benchmark and 667 00:27:37,660 --> 00:27:39,470 Speaker 2: anchor wherever you can find. And the good thing about 668 00:27:39,470 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 2: all this take home scenario thing is you can go 669 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 2: back and quickly google for your 670 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:43,660 Speaker 1: answers. 671 00:27:43,940 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: So since you're jumping ahead of us already, we do 672 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: want to ask you about what advice you have for 673 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,350 Speaker 1: graduates seeking to negotiate pay. 674 00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:53,659 Speaker 1: It doesn't really come up in the job interview at 675 00:27:53,670 --> 00:27:56,470 Speaker 1: the very end and there's an offer on the table. 676 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: How should they go about doing it? Because it can 677 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,770 Speaker 1: be a really awkward exercise. I imagine this is your 678 00:28:01,770 --> 00:28:05,210 Speaker 1: first job. There is nothing to benchmark yourself against. What 679 00:28:05,210 --> 00:28:08,100 Speaker 1: did you do? Cheryl, did you negotiate your salary? So 680 00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,270 Speaker 1: fun fact is that I'm about to go into conversion 681 00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:13,830 Speaker 1: then I will have to start negotiating my pay. So 682 00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:16,629 Speaker 1: I'm actually curious about what does agent have to say? 683 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:17,850 Speaker 1: All right, 684 00:28:18,140 --> 00:28:20,409 Speaker 2: as mentioned of course trying to do as much homework 685 00:28:20,410 --> 00:28:22,510 Speaker 2: as you can. And second of all you have to 686 00:28:22,510 --> 00:28:27,250 Speaker 2: take into consideration all the other non monetary salary. You 687 00:28:27,250 --> 00:28:30,700 Speaker 2: have things like your benefits, your annual leave, your medical 688 00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:33,370 Speaker 2: coverage etcetera, etcetera because they can pay you a very 689 00:28:33,369 --> 00:28:35,420 Speaker 2: good salary. But then tell you, oh, you're an only 690 00:28:35,420 --> 00:28:36,050 Speaker 2: seven days. 691 00:28:36,340 --> 00:28:38,380 Speaker 2: You probably would not want to entertain that as well. 692 00:28:38,380 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 2: So you have to look at the full package 693 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,350 Speaker 2: And also bearing in mind your salary will grow over 694 00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 2: time your entrance salary, maybe this amount but over time 695 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,730 Speaker 2: you can go up. What is that opportunity? Is that 696 00:28:49,730 --> 00:28:52,370 Speaker 2: transparency on how I can achieve it. Would it take 697 00:28:52,370 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: me one year of solid performance to hit the next 698 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,290 Speaker 2: year or do I need to do 10 years before 699 00:28:58,290 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 2: I can move on to the next year. 700 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 2: So all this will also be material and the next 701 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,540 Speaker 2: thing is when it comes to crunch time, when you 702 00:29:04,540 --> 00:29:06,450 Speaker 2: have a sense, okay, I'm the candidate they want to 703 00:29:06,450 --> 00:29:08,910 Speaker 2: offer me and they have this thing on the table. 704 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,940 Speaker 2: One trick that you can try to pull off is 705 00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:13,290 Speaker 2: think of something that you really want but you have 706 00:29:13,290 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 2: to put it across to them. Okay? If you can 707 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,770 Speaker 2: give me X. I will sign immediately. 708 00:29:17,340 --> 00:29:19,430 Speaker 2: So they will also give them the motivation. Okay, let 709 00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:21,070 Speaker 2: me quickly talk to the hiring manager. Can we give 710 00:29:21,070 --> 00:29:22,380 Speaker 2: her ex or not? If you can give her ex 711 00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:25,790 Speaker 2: immediately signed for any recruiter and the hiring manager every 712 00:29:25,790 --> 00:29:29,390 Speaker 2: single day without that person with that vacancy to entertain 713 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,620 Speaker 2: is actually another day of stress another day. Everyone have 714 00:29:33,620 --> 00:29:36,570 Speaker 2: to double up triple head to do all the necessary work. 715 00:29:36,580 --> 00:29:38,270 Speaker 2: So the faster they can close the better 716 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,100 Speaker 2: if you can give them that timeline. Okay, give me X. 717 00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:44,370 Speaker 2: I will immediately sign, I'll start tomorrow. That will motivate 718 00:29:44,370 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 2: them to really go all out and try to pull 719 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,070 Speaker 2: all the strings and make it work for you. 720 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,190 Speaker 1: Okay. But it's also this argument that you know, if 721 00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: you're a fresh graduate first of all, you don't really 722 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: have a lot of experience on the table and now 723 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,350 Speaker 1: in this situation where it's so difficult to find a job. 724 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: Do you really have what it takes to 725 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,770 Speaker 1: us to even negotiate? Because some people might say 726 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,030 Speaker 1: you already so lucky to have a job you want 727 00:30:03,030 --> 00:30:06,190 Speaker 1: to negotiate like other people as well, right, who are 728 00:30:06,190 --> 00:30:08,860 Speaker 1: other candidates and then they think you're being fussy, could 729 00:30:08,860 --> 00:30:10,050 Speaker 1: that risk arise? 730 00:30:10,060 --> 00:30:12,430 Speaker 2: That risk definitely will arise. But I also want to 731 00:30:12,430 --> 00:30:15,790 Speaker 2: point out if you can reach the salary negotiation stage, 732 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 2: they definitely see something in 733 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,380 Speaker 1: you. So that is your 734 00:30:18,380 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: opportunity to make the call 735 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 2: if you want to. So of course you don't just 736 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,090 Speaker 2: go in on the first interview in your email. Oh, 737 00:30:24,090 --> 00:30:26,550 Speaker 2: I want this amount already. That is not the right time. 738 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: Just before you go into a salary negotiation. Of course, 739 00:30:29,570 --> 00:30:31,450 Speaker 1: a lot of people, they have a lot of job 740 00:30:31,450 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: applications and they might actually have received more than one offer. 741 00:30:35,140 --> 00:30:38,150 Speaker 1: What's your advice to people who have maybe one or 742 00:30:38,150 --> 00:30:41,270 Speaker 1: 234 offers on the table and they're trying to decide 743 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,550 Speaker 1: which one to pick up because some sienna followers on 744 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,380 Speaker 1: instagram tell us they regret rushing into their first job. 745 00:30:48,390 --> 00:30:51,670 Speaker 1: Either they grabbed the earliest deal or they went for 746 00:30:51,670 --> 00:30:53,170 Speaker 1: a job that paid the most 747 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,270 Speaker 1: or not negotiate pay was a key regret as well. 748 00:30:56,270 --> 00:31:00,390 Speaker 1: So what's your advice on how to go about choosing 749 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,270 Speaker 1: the right place? The right role. 750 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,970 Speaker 2: Great question before that I personally would suggest you try 751 00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:08,530 Speaker 2: to reach out to people within the company to do 752 00:31:08,530 --> 00:31:11,150 Speaker 2: some informal reference check. I mean, for the longest time 753 00:31:11,150 --> 00:31:13,970 Speaker 2: reference check has always been one way company do on candidates. 754 00:31:13,980 --> 00:31:16,710 Speaker 2: But seriously, in today's context, it is very easy for 755 00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 2: a candidate you want company. 756 00:31:18,340 --> 00:31:22,730 Speaker 2: If a company insists on Naomi three happy past managers 757 00:31:22,730 --> 00:31:25,490 Speaker 2: who work with, you should also like rightfully try to 758 00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:28,350 Speaker 2: identify three happy candidates or job seekers or employees as 759 00:31:28,350 --> 00:31:30,900 Speaker 2: working for the company because of two way street, try 760 00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:32,860 Speaker 2: to go to linkedin to find out if there's people 761 00:31:32,860 --> 00:31:34,630 Speaker 2: who is working in the company or has worked in 762 00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 2: the company before. Again, using the same 763 00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: approach, can you buy your coffee, get some time from 764 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,270 Speaker 2: you to get some advice from you? 765 00:31:41,340 --> 00:31:43,910 Speaker 2: That's one. Now, the other thing when you have offers 766 00:31:43,910 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: on the table to consider, don't compare A vs. B. 767 00:31:48,210 --> 00:31:51,460 Speaker 2: Compare what is after A versus what's after B. Because 768 00:31:51,460 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: ultimately your upcoming job is not going to be our 769 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,590 Speaker 2: final job, it's just going to be a stepping stone 770 00:31:56,590 --> 00:31:58,050 Speaker 2: for you to move into what's next. 771 00:31:58,140 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 2: So, I'll give you an example. I was previously in 772 00:32:00,490 --> 00:32:01,770 Speaker 2: HR tech company 773 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,140 Speaker 2: many years back and I'm actually going to offer from 774 00:32:04,140 --> 00:32:08,050 Speaker 2: a university to get into career services. So it's really 775 00:32:08,050 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 2: very different. I was also quite 776 00:32:10,140 --> 00:32:11,710 Speaker 2: in the dilemma, I don't know what to do. So 777 00:32:11,710 --> 00:32:13,380 Speaker 2: I reached out to a mentor of mine and he said, 778 00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:17,530 Speaker 2: agent don't compare this HR tech versus this university, consider 779 00:32:17,530 --> 00:32:20,420 Speaker 2: what's next for these two items. So I was thinking 780 00:32:20,420 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 2: okay for HR tech, if I continue, maybe I could 781 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,510 Speaker 2: potentially go into some other bigger cloud based I. T. 782 00:32:26,510 --> 00:32:30,170 Speaker 2: Company like Salesforce etcetera. But if I go to career services, 783 00:32:30,340 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 2: okay after this, you need to go to another uni. 784 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,260 Speaker 2: After that you need go to another unit that that's 785 00:32:34,260 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 2: about that long, it's musical chairs. 786 00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:39,100 Speaker 2: So I decided to stick with the HR tech company. 787 00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:41,570 Speaker 2: Something along that line will be very useful because every 788 00:32:41,570 --> 00:32:44,550 Speaker 2: stepping stone that you touch on would actually lead to 789 00:32:44,550 --> 00:32:47,450 Speaker 2: an experience or some extra things that you can bring 790 00:32:47,450 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 2: along to the next company. So for example, if you 791 00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:52,290 Speaker 2: want to go into a big tech company, you will 792 00:32:52,290 --> 00:32:54,550 Speaker 2: know for sure or they want to see which are 793 00:32:54,550 --> 00:32:57,170 Speaker 2: the previous startup that you have been working with, 794 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,380 Speaker 2: Do you have a stanford degree, for example, etcetera? Do 795 00:33:00,380 --> 00:33:01,620 Speaker 2: you have an M. B. A, this kind of stuff. 796 00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 2: So those are things that you have to slowly work 797 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,130 Speaker 2: towards and for the experience that you gain at job 798 00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:08,330 Speaker 2: is important to make sure that what you have here 799 00:33:08,340 --> 00:33:10,670 Speaker 2: allow you to jump easily to the next thing. 800 00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:13,810 Speaker 1: Did you have any similar experiences or insights in the 801 00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:17,230 Speaker 1: course of your journey Cheryl when you were applying for places, 802 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,390 Speaker 1: how did you know the role that you're in currently 803 00:33:19,390 --> 00:33:22,350 Speaker 1: is the one that too much pressure to place on 804 00:33:22,350 --> 00:33:25,250 Speaker 1: the role based on my experience. I actually had a 805 00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: sort of a dilemma as well. When I was applying 806 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: for all the job applications as well, I was considering 807 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,900 Speaker 1: going into teaching. So I applied to M. O. E. 808 00:33:33,900 --> 00:33:36,470 Speaker 1: As well as casting out my net to other industries 809 00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:37,350 Speaker 1: and companies 810 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: and with 811 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: a background that is also in the education sector, I 812 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,660 Speaker 1: thought it would be a good way to go into 813 00:33:44,660 --> 00:33:47,250 Speaker 1: as well and then have a mentor of sorts in 814 00:33:47,250 --> 00:33:51,020 Speaker 1: the teaching industry. Yeah. That's so different what you're doing now. Yeah, 815 00:33:51,030 --> 00:33:53,860 Speaker 1: so it's very, very different to where I am now. 816 00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:56,020 Speaker 1: And I think what I did was I took a 817 00:33:56,020 --> 00:33:59,350 Speaker 1: step back and actually also consulted my dad on this 818 00:33:59,540 --> 00:34:02,140 Speaker 1: and he said, why don't you just take a step 819 00:34:02,140 --> 00:34:04,820 Speaker 1: back and see exactly what you want to do out 820 00:34:04,820 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: of a job 821 00:34:05,740 --> 00:34:09,540 Speaker 1: and to get more experience, let's say in other industries 822 00:34:09,540 --> 00:34:13,210 Speaker 1: first more so than going into the education sector and 823 00:34:13,210 --> 00:34:16,990 Speaker 1: then being a teacher like forever of sorts, right? And 824 00:34:16,989 --> 00:34:19,450 Speaker 1: then going to different schools and then school after school, 825 00:34:19,450 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: after school versus you going out there and to other industries, 826 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,250 Speaker 1: I actually wanted to explore more in the social sector 827 00:34:26,340 --> 00:34:29,550 Speaker 1: site. And my dad said, if you go into teaching, 828 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,230 Speaker 1: you might not have this exposure and experience after. So, 829 00:34:33,230 --> 00:34:35,899 Speaker 1: after all this deliberation and like talking to my dad, 830 00:34:35,910 --> 00:34:38,989 Speaker 1: I realized that maybe social sector is something that I 831 00:34:38,989 --> 00:34:42,180 Speaker 1: want to go into to explore first and then maybe 832 00:34:42,180 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: further down the road if I really want to be 833 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,049 Speaker 1: a teacher, I can actually apply after 834 00:34:46,340 --> 00:34:49,229 Speaker 1: with all that considerations in mind. I decided to just 835 00:34:49,230 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 1: forgo M. O. E. 836 00:34:50,540 --> 00:34:53,620 Speaker 1: And try to cast my net out right into social 837 00:34:53,620 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 1: sector organizations and companies. Right? So broaden your horizons but 838 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,410 Speaker 1: talk to someone who's been in that sector which in 839 00:34:59,410 --> 00:35:01,100 Speaker 1: this case happens to be your dad who you trust 840 00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: as well. Unfortunately. Yeah. Now that we have established all 841 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,089 Speaker 1: the different ways that we can secure a job. Talk 842 00:35:07,090 --> 00:35:09,859 Speaker 1: to someone who's in the industry, Taylor Seavey. 843 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:10,850 Speaker 1: But what if 844 00:35:10,940 --> 00:35:13,930 Speaker 1: despite everything we've said today, we are still unable to 845 00:35:13,930 --> 00:35:17,130 Speaker 1: secure a job. So maybe how should a fresh graduate 846 00:35:17,130 --> 00:35:20,220 Speaker 1: deal with rejection? Sure. Maybe you could share those few 847 00:35:20,219 --> 00:35:24,700 Speaker 1: instances where you have to face those tough rejections. You 848 00:35:24,710 --> 00:35:26,620 Speaker 1: must not be easy because you know in school you 849 00:35:26,620 --> 00:35:28,950 Speaker 1: get AIDS and whatnot or you'll pass and you move 850 00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:30,050 Speaker 1: on to the next level. But 851 00:35:30,340 --> 00:35:31,700 Speaker 1: how do you do a rejection? 852 00:35:32,140 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: Go into my room and cry. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, 853 00:35:35,850 --> 00:35:38,900 Speaker 1: of course I'll be disappointed. But at the end of 854 00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:41,779 Speaker 1: day it's more of like taking in the experience of 855 00:35:41,780 --> 00:35:44,550 Speaker 1: like what you maybe you did wrong. Also like maybe 856 00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:48,310 Speaker 1: thanking the company as well for having that experience to 857 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,090 Speaker 1: go through the interview process as well. And then taking 858 00:35:51,090 --> 00:35:52,170 Speaker 1: those learnings and then 859 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: apply again. Just try again. 860 00:35:53,940 --> 00:35:56,750 Speaker 1: I mean like we're adults and then we're going to 861 00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:59,660 Speaker 1: be working for the rest of our lives. So just 862 00:35:59,660 --> 00:36:02,380 Speaker 1: take it as a learning experience and don't stress about 863 00:36:02,380 --> 00:36:04,850 Speaker 1: like having to get a job within like two months 864 00:36:04,850 --> 00:36:07,870 Speaker 1: of graduating and sort of stuff. Okay Adrian how would 865 00:36:07,870 --> 00:36:10,450 Speaker 1: you recommend to your rejection I guess. How would you 866 00:36:10,450 --> 00:36:11,460 Speaker 1: recommend you know to 867 00:36:11,930 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: analyze one's performance? So let's select show after her rejection 868 00:36:15,370 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: after she's done crying. She said okay maybe I should 869 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: just analyze what I did wrong. How would you recommend 870 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:20,370 Speaker 1: her to do it 871 00:36:20,380 --> 00:36:22,580 Speaker 2: before that? Let me share a story. So after my 872 00:36:22,580 --> 00:36:24,890 Speaker 2: first recruitment business I actually wanted to get into the 873 00:36:24,890 --> 00:36:27,730 Speaker 2: tech business because after dealing with sales people for so 874 00:36:27,730 --> 00:36:29,750 Speaker 2: many years I'm so jaded of dealing with people. 875 00:36:30,130 --> 00:36:32,830 Speaker 2: So I applied at linkedin applied at higher dot com. 876 00:36:32,830 --> 00:36:34,899 Speaker 2: I didn't get the job. And that is when I 877 00:36:34,910 --> 00:36:37,940 Speaker 2: was thinking of maybe I can express my interest in 878 00:36:37,940 --> 00:36:41,060 Speaker 2: technology to writing instead and that's how things just compound 879 00:36:41,060 --> 00:36:44,470 Speaker 2: since then. So there's always an opportunity even within rejection. 880 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 2: But I think to what you mentioned is really good 881 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 2: to take those feedback in a very constructive manner to 882 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,149 Speaker 2: identify what do you think went wrong? 883 00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 2: And you will also be helpful if you can get 884 00:36:54,250 --> 00:36:56,460 Speaker 2: a third pair of lens someone from a neutral stance 885 00:36:56,460 --> 00:36:59,210 Speaker 2: to help you see your friends, your family. Why do 886 00:36:59,210 --> 00:37:01,830 Speaker 2: you think I did not get that? Ah And look 887 00:37:01,830 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 2: at perhaps do a bit of C. S. I. To 888 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 2: find out people who have 889 00:37:04,930 --> 00:37:05,969 Speaker 1: gotten the job instead 890 00:37:05,980 --> 00:37:06,890 Speaker 2: and see what is the clear 891 00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:08,110 Speaker 1: difference. Yeah. 892 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 2: Sometimes you may not be that apparent but sometimes it 893 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,700 Speaker 2: can be very clear okay all the people that joined 894 00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:15,780 Speaker 2: the company happens to come from, maybe this school, this industry, 895 00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: this former company, maybe that is what I'm lacking so realistically. 896 00:37:19,410 --> 00:37:22,090 Speaker 2: Should that be apart for me to take or should 897 00:37:22,090 --> 00:37:25,469 Speaker 2: I just consider dropping it altogether? So those are some 898 00:37:25,469 --> 00:37:26,750 Speaker 2: of the insights that you can gain. 899 00:37:27,130 --> 00:37:29,469 Speaker 1: Maybe just run off this podcast. If you both can 900 00:37:29,469 --> 00:37:32,530 Speaker 1: give us your parting shots on your advice for any 901 00:37:32,530 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: graduates who's on that journey of finding their first job 902 00:37:36,010 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: applying and not really getting anything in return. Um What's 903 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:40,660 Speaker 1: your advice to them? 904 00:37:40,730 --> 00:37:44,140 Speaker 2: I think for graduates specifically you do need to put 905 00:37:44,140 --> 00:37:47,170 Speaker 2: in a bit of work to showcase your personality because 906 00:37:47,180 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 2: you don't really have much experience to speak of 907 00:37:49,330 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 2: to be honest, everyone who come up from the university 908 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 2: is like every soldier that come up from BMT, every 909 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,530 Speaker 2: one of them look the same. So how do you 910 00:37:55,530 --> 00:37:59,359 Speaker 2: really differentiate, differentiate to other means? Maybe your CC. A. 911 00:37:59,370 --> 00:38:01,590 Speaker 2: You're like what you mentioned, you know, if you want 912 00:38:01,590 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 2: to tell me you are very persistent person, show to 913 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,940 Speaker 2: me that you're persistent or I ran an ultra marathon 914 00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:09,540 Speaker 2: that one is a different level kind of persistence. 915 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,940 Speaker 2: So those are things that have to showcase, which of 916 00:38:11,940 --> 00:38:14,899 Speaker 2: course unfortunately in hindsight, then you realize, oh no, then 917 00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 2: I shouldn't have been binge watching or playing games for, 918 00:38:17,250 --> 00:38:18,950 Speaker 2: for the past decade of my life, I have no 919 00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:21,330 Speaker 2: portfolio to build on, but having said that it's never 920 00:38:21,330 --> 00:38:23,420 Speaker 2: too late and into this context, it's so easy to 921 00:38:23,420 --> 00:38:27,070 Speaker 2: build portfolio, go to Youtube, Tiktok and write something becomes 922 00:38:27,070 --> 00:38:30,730 Speaker 2: some influencer. It is so much possible, especially if you 923 00:38:30,730 --> 00:38:31,140 Speaker 2: have 924 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,460 Speaker 2: the gumption and the interest to do all that and 925 00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:37,500 Speaker 2: for areas where you cannot talk your way through, you 926 00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:39,350 Speaker 2: can always write about it, you can always become a 927 00:38:39,350 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 2: content creator to your writing because right now honestly, if 928 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,710 Speaker 2: you do already have those assets, you can always tell 929 00:38:45,710 --> 00:38:48,290 Speaker 2: people or you go to my website, my portfolio is 930 00:38:48,290 --> 00:38:48,540 Speaker 2: there 931 00:38:48,620 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 2: versus someone that just sent in a resume, the standard 932 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,950 Speaker 2: template that career services give to everybody. 933 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:55,860 Speaker 2: So those are ways that I think you can try 934 00:38:55,860 --> 00:38:57,460 Speaker 2: to stand out amongst from the 935 00:38:57,460 --> 00:39:00,939 Speaker 1: crop, any parting shot Cheryl words of wisdom to run 936 00:39:00,940 --> 00:39:03,430 Speaker 1: it off I guess from my personal experience, just be 937 00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 1: confident in your own skills and experiences that you've learned 938 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: through uni or like through your early life itself and 939 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:15,610 Speaker 1: just believe in yourself and there you have it, are 940 00:39:15,610 --> 00:39:18,290 Speaker 1: you making these same rookie mistakes in your search for 941 00:39:18,290 --> 00:39:20,450 Speaker 1: your first job. Tell us what you like about this 942 00:39:20,450 --> 00:39:23,890 Speaker 1: podcast on your facebook instagram? Or drop us an email 943 00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:31,750 Speaker 1: at Sienna commentary at media called dot com next week. 944 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,930 Speaker 1: As the special four part series continues, This has been 945 00:39:34,930 --> 00:39:36,900 Speaker 1: the heart of the matter with me, Nicholas, 946 00:39:37,620 --> 00:39:41,860 Speaker 1: lin, xueling Christina robert, our podcast editor and Aaron Low, 947 00:39:41,870 --> 00:39:49,530 Speaker 1: our research writer, signing off until next time.