1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,339 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:05,349 --> 00:00:09,109 Speaker 2: It's Andrea Heng. And I am back with another episode 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,890 Speaker 2: of Money Talks, the podcast where we discuss all things 4 00:00:12,898 --> 00:00:16,559 Speaker 2: to do with personal finance, how to save better, invest 5 00:00:16,569 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 2: better and plan for our retirement better. Can't forget about 6 00:00:20,170 --> 00:00:22,889 Speaker 2: that one. Now, in the last episode, I explored the 7 00:00:22,899 --> 00:00:27,649 Speaker 2: risks and rewards of investment linked insurance policies that I 8 00:00:27,659 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: LP S for those of you who don't know. And 9 00:00:30,209 --> 00:00:30,430 Speaker 2: if it's 10 00:00:30,506 --> 00:00:33,816 Speaker 2: good idea to terminate an I LP, if it's not 11 00:00:33,826 --> 00:00:37,534 Speaker 2: working for you, if that's something you've been thinking about, 12 00:00:37,555 --> 00:00:40,495 Speaker 2: you want to check it out. Well, today, however, I 13 00:00:40,506 --> 00:00:43,425 Speaker 2: want to talk about something that we probably don't think 14 00:00:43,436 --> 00:00:48,236 Speaker 2: about often enough and that is investing your CPF money, 15 00:00:48,245 --> 00:00:53,085 Speaker 2: especially when you are younger. I'll tell you how much younger. Ok. 16 00:00:53,296 --> 00:00:55,654 Speaker 2: Now we all know what CPF is it 17 00:00:55,731 --> 00:00:58,902 Speaker 2: a portion of your monthly salary that's set aside that 18 00:00:58,911 --> 00:01:01,742 Speaker 2: you can use for housing your medical needs. I know 19 00:01:01,751 --> 00:01:05,501 Speaker 2: I've done that before. Now, whatever is left behind, accumulates 20 00:01:05,512 --> 00:01:09,861 Speaker 2: interest over time and just form a tidy nest egg. Now, 21 00:01:09,872 --> 00:01:13,521 Speaker 2: if you are in your twenties or thirties and that's 22 00:01:13,531 --> 00:01:16,912 Speaker 2: the age group we're talking about today. Chances are you 23 00:01:16,921 --> 00:01:19,902 Speaker 2: might have already tapped into your CPF to pay for 24 00:01:19,912 --> 00:01:20,882 Speaker 2: your first home 25 00:01:21,169 --> 00:01:24,019 Speaker 2: and then ignore what's happening in your ordinary account or 26 00:01:24,029 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 2: your O A because you're thinking, you know what? I 27 00:01:26,809 --> 00:01:30,019 Speaker 2: have to wait till I'm 55 to cash it out. Anyway. Well, 28 00:01:30,029 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 2: this episode might change your mind here to offer strategies 29 00:01:34,330 --> 00:01:38,569 Speaker 2: for maximizing your CPF. Money. Is Lawrence Tan. It's the 30 00:01:38,580 --> 00:01:39,599 Speaker 2: training and content 31 00:01:39,675 --> 00:01:43,714 Speaker 2: team lead at the Institute for Financial Literacy and we 32 00:01:43,724 --> 00:01:46,724 Speaker 2: welcome him to money talks. Hey, Lawrence. Hi, Andrea. Pleasure 33 00:01:46,735 --> 00:01:48,745 Speaker 2: to be here. It is our pleasure to have you, Lawrence. 34 00:01:48,754 --> 00:01:52,385 Speaker 2: Let's start with a personal anecdote. When did you start 35 00:01:52,394 --> 00:01:57,035 Speaker 2: investing your CPF money? Were you already investing actively elsewhere 36 00:01:57,044 --> 00:01:59,875 Speaker 2: and thought, ah, it's time for me to maximize my 37 00:01:59,885 --> 00:02:00,434 Speaker 2: CPF money. 38 00:02:01,419 --> 00:02:03,830 Speaker 2: So, just like most people who started work and after 39 00:02:03,839 --> 00:02:06,379 Speaker 2: you see some CPF balances accumulate, you sort of feel 40 00:02:06,389 --> 00:02:08,850 Speaker 2: that it's something that I can see, but I cannot touch. 41 00:02:08,860 --> 00:02:11,059 Speaker 2: And then of course, you have all sorts of anecdotes 42 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:13,619 Speaker 2: coming your way that this money is too far for 43 00:02:13,630 --> 00:02:16,649 Speaker 2: you to use and useless. So that's why I started 44 00:02:16,660 --> 00:02:20,199 Speaker 2: to invest without really having I would say on hindsight, 45 00:02:20,210 --> 00:02:24,380 Speaker 2: fully understanding the risk reward equation. So, yeah, probably around 46 00:02:24,389 --> 00:02:27,579 Speaker 2: mid twenties, mid twenties. That's pretty healthy. I think I 47 00:02:27,589 --> 00:02:28,770 Speaker 2: did about the same too. 48 00:02:28,990 --> 00:02:32,100 Speaker 2: But it took me a how do I say this 49 00:02:32,110 --> 00:02:36,008 Speaker 2: a milestone in my life to realize, hey, I can 50 00:02:36,020 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 2: actually invest this money even though I can't touch it. 51 00:02:38,850 --> 00:02:42,309 Speaker 2: So before we get into the nitty gritty, I wanted 52 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 2: to ask you, could you explain what investing using this, 53 00:02:46,169 --> 00:02:50,669 Speaker 2: using your CPF moneys and tails versus cash? Are there 54 00:02:50,679 --> 00:02:53,929 Speaker 2: specific kinds of instruments, vehicles, products that you can use 55 00:02:53,940 --> 00:02:55,830 Speaker 2: versus what we normally invest in? 56 00:02:56,410 --> 00:03:00,050 Speaker 2: So the CPF investment scheme or CPFIS for short is 57 00:03:00,059 --> 00:03:05,259 Speaker 2: specifically tailored to give savers an opportunity to invest in 58 00:03:05,270 --> 00:03:07,550 Speaker 2: a selected basket of products. So it's not open to 59 00:03:07,559 --> 00:03:10,649 Speaker 2: every product that is available out there. Generally, it's a 60 00:03:10,660 --> 00:03:13,660 Speaker 2: bit more conservative from a risk perspective and that's a 61 00:03:13,669 --> 00:03:16,649 Speaker 2: good reason for it because this is your hard earned money. 62 00:03:16,660 --> 00:03:19,970 Speaker 2: And CPF as you mentioned in the introduction, is really 63 00:03:19,979 --> 00:03:23,220 Speaker 2: for three pillars, right? One for medical needs, of course, 64 00:03:23,229 --> 00:03:24,020 Speaker 2: we have your ma 65 00:03:24,229 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 2: your ordinary account, which is for your home. Most people 66 00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: use it for home and also your S A for 67 00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:32,779 Speaker 2: your retirement, which is a very critical component and sometimes 68 00:03:32,788 --> 00:03:35,509 Speaker 2: when you're younger, you don't think about it. So you 69 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,809 Speaker 2: have to make sure that you do not lose too 70 00:03:37,820 --> 00:03:40,740 Speaker 2: much of your capital through improper investment. So the risk 71 00:03:40,750 --> 00:03:46,050 Speaker 2: basket for products under the CPFIS scheme is calibrated. So generally, 72 00:03:46,059 --> 00:03:49,119 Speaker 2: they are very conservative products having said that you have 73 00:03:49,205 --> 00:03:51,634 Speaker 2: to then look at the fact that there is risk 74 00:03:51,675 --> 00:03:55,705 Speaker 2: free return from your CPF. So you want to obviously 75 00:03:55,714 --> 00:04:00,255 Speaker 2: invest in something that can outperform a risk free return 76 00:04:00,324 --> 00:04:04,994 Speaker 2: with a relatively logical risk reward trade off, right? Because 77 00:04:05,005 --> 00:04:07,324 Speaker 2: if it's paying you 2.5% and you think you can 78 00:04:07,335 --> 00:04:10,065 Speaker 2: only get about 3% question is whether it makes sense 79 00:04:10,565 --> 00:04:14,115 Speaker 2: given the higher risk. So these are some of the considerations, right? 80 00:04:14,309 --> 00:04:17,399 Speaker 2: And of course, recently, you can also invest your CPF 81 00:04:17,410 --> 00:04:20,559 Speaker 2: into things like Singapore government bonds or Singapore savings bonds. 82 00:04:20,570 --> 00:04:23,779 Speaker 2: So there's a little bit more products available. And if 83 00:04:23,790 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: you don't like 2.5% you think SSB is giving you 3% 84 00:04:27,170 --> 00:04:28,729 Speaker 2: or you know, you can go for that and you 85 00:04:28,738 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: have the same level of risk. So that's how you 86 00:04:30,649 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: should think about investing your CPFIS, right? Ok. That's cool. 87 00:04:34,928 --> 00:04:38,178 Speaker 2: Is there a minimum amount that we need to have 88 00:04:38,190 --> 00:04:40,738 Speaker 2: in that O A for us to even invest in 89 00:04:40,820 --> 00:04:42,220 Speaker 2: or to make it even worse? 90 00:04:42,299 --> 00:04:45,428 Speaker 2: Thinking about investing? Well, actually at the end of the day, 91 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,229 Speaker 2: you take a look at how much you are prepared 92 00:04:47,238 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 2: to put your capital. The money that you don't need 93 00:04:49,928 --> 00:04:52,219 Speaker 2: investing is always about, you know, the money that you 94 00:04:52,230 --> 00:04:54,709 Speaker 2: can put aside for the long term. I like to 95 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,149 Speaker 2: use that analogy of, you know, investing, you invest your 96 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: beer money, not your milk powder money that straight away 97 00:05:02,209 --> 00:05:04,269 Speaker 2: drives from the point of the kind of money that 98 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,140 Speaker 2: you should be using, right? You immediately know what you mean, 99 00:05:08,149 --> 00:05:10,079 Speaker 2: the money is fungible. But you know, 100 00:05:10,290 --> 00:05:12,869 Speaker 2: if you think about it, your money is money. Yeah, 101 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,209 Speaker 2: you don't have to feed somebody. So that's the kind 102 00:05:15,220 --> 00:05:17,469 Speaker 2: of thinking that you sort of have in mind. But 103 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,829 Speaker 2: having said that again, CPF like I said, is cost 104 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,220 Speaker 2: savings because whatever you build up in your O A 105 00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:25,850 Speaker 2: eventually when you reach obviously my age or closer to that, 106 00:05:26,010 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: it all forms part of your S A for So 107 00:05:29,450 --> 00:05:31,779 Speaker 2: O A plus S A becomes your retirement account. So 108 00:05:31,790 --> 00:05:35,380 Speaker 2: you don't want to be too about it. That's not 109 00:05:35,390 --> 00:05:37,909 Speaker 2: to say though that you talked about how some of 110 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:38,079 Speaker 2: the 111 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,808 Speaker 2: pfis instruments tend to be quite conservative. It gives you 112 00:05:42,820 --> 00:05:45,488 Speaker 2: quite a bit of room in terms of your risk 113 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 2: reward capabilities, but that's not to say that you can't 114 00:05:48,488 --> 00:05:52,130 Speaker 2: lose on your CPF investments, can you? Of course, I 115 00:05:52,140 --> 00:05:54,630 Speaker 2: think the last time I looked at data from CPF, 116 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,959 Speaker 2: at least 50% of people who have invested within the 117 00:05:57,970 --> 00:06:03,890 Speaker 2: CPFIS investments don't outperform the 2.5%. So in other words, 118 00:06:03,899 --> 00:06:05,868 Speaker 2: you would have been better off just leaving the money 119 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:06,190 Speaker 2: there 120 00:06:06,459 --> 00:06:11,469 Speaker 2: sleeping better, right? Whatever. So the track record is not great. 121 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,428 Speaker 2: It's not that every seven out of 10 investors who 122 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,349 Speaker 2: invested in CPFIS do better than 2.5%. It's not that 123 00:06:18,359 --> 00:06:21,420 Speaker 2: it's probably about 40 50% at best. So we have 124 00:06:21,428 --> 00:06:25,149 Speaker 2: to remember that it's not right. It's not a given. 125 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,010 Speaker 2: So think carefully. There are instruments you can invest, you 126 00:06:29,019 --> 00:06:31,739 Speaker 2: can put into ETF S which potentially gives you a 127 00:06:31,750 --> 00:06:33,089 Speaker 2: bit more 6 7%. 128 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,329 Speaker 2: But there's always a risk. Of course, of course, with 129 00:06:36,339 --> 00:06:42,049 Speaker 2: ETF S. Now how different is investing CPF versus cash 130 00:06:42,059 --> 00:06:44,928 Speaker 2: apart from the types of products? What other considerations are 131 00:06:44,940 --> 00:06:48,700 Speaker 2: there in terms of the differences? I think again, we 132 00:06:48,709 --> 00:06:51,140 Speaker 2: come back to the core mission of what CPF is for, right? 133 00:06:51,178 --> 00:06:54,709 Speaker 2: We all earn a certain level of income, we contribute 134 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,868 Speaker 2: significantly CPF as well as from the employer side. 135 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,988 Speaker 2: So the mission of CPF is really to build three 136 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,029 Speaker 2: key pillars that we talked about, right? Health care, retirement 137 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,570 Speaker 2: and housing needs, right? Although O A along the way, 138 00:07:07,940 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: because of your demand, you have allowed to invest, you know, 139 00:07:11,450 --> 00:07:13,609 Speaker 2: you can even use it for education loan and some 140 00:07:13,619 --> 00:07:17,579 Speaker 2: of the other stuff. But the fundamentals of CPF should be, 141 00:07:17,589 --> 00:07:20,750 Speaker 2: we should remind ourselves of it, right? Cash is always 142 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,029 Speaker 2: the other source. The question is, of course, you know, 143 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,750 Speaker 2: what are you getting from the cash? To me, the 144 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,369 Speaker 2: logic is obviously, if cash is lazy out there 145 00:07:28,769 --> 00:07:31,470 Speaker 2: is getting only 1% I mean, these days, at least 146 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 2: interest rate is slightly better, but you know, rewind 34 147 00:07:34,049 --> 00:07:36,529 Speaker 2: or five years back, the interest rates were bad, you 148 00:07:36,540 --> 00:07:39,239 Speaker 2: are hardly getting anything. So then you have lazy cash, 149 00:07:39,339 --> 00:07:42,299 Speaker 2: then of course, you want to deploy lazy cash first, right? Yeah, 150 00:07:42,309 --> 00:07:45,649 Speaker 2: of course. As a 2030 year old when you start off, 151 00:07:45,660 --> 00:07:49,079 Speaker 2: I think inevitably you will start carrying some debt. So 152 00:07:49,089 --> 00:07:51,989 Speaker 2: you have to ask yourself again carefully. Should I invest 153 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,809 Speaker 2: or should I just my debt? If your debt is 154 00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: costing you 4 5% 155 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,130 Speaker 2: you retire with lazy cash, you are actually saving 4 5%. 156 00:08:00,140 --> 00:08:01,910 Speaker 2: Right straight away. You get a yield, you get a 157 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,450 Speaker 2: pick up 4 5%. So you can, you must think 158 00:08:04,459 --> 00:08:06,679 Speaker 2: of it that way, right? If you think that you 159 00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: can outperform 4 5% or whatever that your debt is, 160 00:08:10,450 --> 00:08:13,769 Speaker 2: then invest the cash, right, then that's the way to 161 00:08:13,779 --> 00:08:16,970 Speaker 2: think about investing, right? So use those lazy cash, 162 00:08:17,390 --> 00:08:19,980 Speaker 2: but take into consideration whether how much debt you're carrying 163 00:08:19,989 --> 00:08:23,049 Speaker 2: at what cost and then ask yourself, would you be 164 00:08:23,059 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: better off retiring the debt or you can invest the 165 00:08:26,329 --> 00:08:29,959 Speaker 2: cash with multiple returns over the course of the debt? Right. Right. 166 00:08:29,970 --> 00:08:33,190 Speaker 2: So either shut that debt down and that will be 167 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,900 Speaker 2: an investment. Of course, it is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, down 168 00:08:37,909 --> 00:08:40,580 Speaker 2: the road. So either that or if you don't have debt, 169 00:08:40,590 --> 00:08:43,159 Speaker 2: which I don't know who would have debt in Singapore 170 00:08:43,289 --> 00:08:45,380 Speaker 2: in your twenties and twenties maybe, I don't know, 171 00:08:45,482 --> 00:08:50,723 Speaker 2: I think I would say, yeah, definitely, definitely have that. Ok. 172 00:08:50,732 --> 00:08:53,322 Speaker 2: So either shut the debt down or think about the 173 00:08:53,333 --> 00:08:55,381 Speaker 2: kinds of instruments that can give you that kind of 174 00:08:55,393 --> 00:08:59,533 Speaker 2: returns that would be above and beyond it being asleep 175 00:08:59,752 --> 00:09:02,533 Speaker 2: in your way of being ok. Now, I wanted to 176 00:09:02,543 --> 00:09:06,093 Speaker 2: talk about the age group here. I'm way past my 177 00:09:06,102 --> 00:09:08,612 Speaker 2: twenties and thirties and I wish I had better advice 178 00:09:08,622 --> 00:09:10,982 Speaker 2: when I was at that age. But you know what? Yeah, 179 00:09:10,992 --> 00:09:13,283 Speaker 2: better late than never I say, 180 00:09:13,575 --> 00:09:15,596 Speaker 2: but let's talk about that group of people, the twenties 181 00:09:15,606 --> 00:09:19,536 Speaker 2: and thirties. Do you think that this age group and 182 00:09:19,546 --> 00:09:22,895 Speaker 2: especially in today's context where you have a lot of 183 00:09:22,905 --> 00:09:26,665 Speaker 2: temptation in terms of retail investing, should they have a 184 00:09:26,676 --> 00:09:30,986 Speaker 2: different strategy when it comes to investing their CPF versus 185 00:09:30,995 --> 00:09:34,765 Speaker 2: those in their forties? For example, where they would have 186 00:09:34,776 --> 00:09:37,716 Speaker 2: been a bit more mature in terms of where their 187 00:09:37,726 --> 00:09:41,195 Speaker 2: CPF allocations and accumulations would have been? Yeah, 188 00:09:41,820 --> 00:09:44,868 Speaker 2: I think this you can see as more distractions. Um 189 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,210 Speaker 2: the flipside is that there are more avenues, more, more opportunities, 190 00:09:49,219 --> 00:09:52,609 Speaker 2: more channels. So the question is how do you navigate it, 191 00:09:52,619 --> 00:09:56,469 Speaker 2: make sense of it? But bottom line in investing, there's 192 00:09:56,479 --> 00:09:59,179 Speaker 2: no shortcut, you have to do your ground work, you 193 00:09:59,190 --> 00:10:01,700 Speaker 2: have to do your homework, whatever you call it, you 194 00:10:01,710 --> 00:10:05,069 Speaker 2: have to be disciplined, you have to know where you're going, 195 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,590 Speaker 2: you have to know your objective. So these ground rules 196 00:10:07,599 --> 00:10:08,489 Speaker 2: remain whether 197 00:10:08,820 --> 00:10:11,130 Speaker 2: during my generation, your generation on this new, it's just 198 00:10:11,140 --> 00:10:13,098 Speaker 2: that now you've got a lot more, perhaps a bit 199 00:10:13,109 --> 00:10:15,510 Speaker 2: more confusing. Ask yourself whether you have the discipline to 200 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,989 Speaker 2: do the homework. Some people just hate financial analysis and 201 00:10:19,289 --> 00:10:22,109 Speaker 2: they just want the latest hot tip from somebody that's 202 00:10:22,119 --> 00:10:24,950 Speaker 2: not investing, right? That's gambling. So you need to know 203 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,510 Speaker 2: the difference. If you are of the kind of mindset 204 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,109 Speaker 2: where you just want a quick tip to make some 205 00:10:30,119 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: money in 3 to 4 weeks time, then you know, 206 00:10:32,530 --> 00:10:34,728 Speaker 2: that's not investing. So I think that's the advice for 207 00:10:34,739 --> 00:10:35,849 Speaker 2: the younger age group because 208 00:10:36,309 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 2: unfortunately, maybe because people are more impatient, things are faster 209 00:10:40,349 --> 00:10:43,289 Speaker 2: and you see a lot of influences from socials and 210 00:10:43,299 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: all that stuff and you want things to be quick. 211 00:10:45,890 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 2: Hence you have this thing about people trying to get 212 00:10:48,650 --> 00:10:52,218 Speaker 2: rich quick. But I wanted to ask because of their 213 00:10:52,229 --> 00:10:56,119 Speaker 2: longer runway at that age, would this mean that they 214 00:10:56,130 --> 00:10:58,460 Speaker 2: can afford to be a bit more aggressive? The good 215 00:10:58,469 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: news is of course they can afford to, they can 216 00:11:00,650 --> 00:11:03,859 Speaker 2: afford to provide it again. We come back to the fundamentals, right? 217 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,619 Speaker 2: What is your objective for every pot of money that 218 00:11:07,630 --> 00:11:10,669 Speaker 2: you want to invest? Right? Do you have the aptitude 219 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,569 Speaker 2: to do the groundwork and the homework? These are fundamentals 220 00:11:13,580 --> 00:11:16,010 Speaker 2: must be there, right? If you do have all this 221 00:11:16,020 --> 00:11:18,848 Speaker 2: and you are clear about your objective, you can take 222 00:11:18,859 --> 00:11:22,069 Speaker 2: more risk because you are younger, you have the benefit 223 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,179 Speaker 2: of two things compounding. Plus you can recover. Yes, right. 224 00:11:26,190 --> 00:11:28,569 Speaker 2: You can recover. Should markets you know, go into a 225 00:11:28,580 --> 00:11:31,039 Speaker 2: bit of a dive, you can recover. So you have 226 00:11:31,049 --> 00:11:32,710 Speaker 2: the advantage but then again, 227 00:11:33,099 --> 00:11:35,469 Speaker 2: if you don't have the aptitude, you need to outsource 228 00:11:35,479 --> 00:11:38,500 Speaker 2: or you are a very risk averse person. The last 229 00:11:38,510 --> 00:11:41,909 Speaker 2: thing you should be doing is to invest and then 230 00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:44,270 Speaker 2: not being able to sleep at night or have quarrels 231 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,699 Speaker 2: with your spouse. Forget it. It's not worth it, it's 232 00:11:47,710 --> 00:11:50,030 Speaker 2: not worth it. So these are some of the things 233 00:11:50,039 --> 00:11:53,270 Speaker 2: which you have is very personal and each individual has 234 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,340 Speaker 2: to sort of know your makeup. If you have all 235 00:11:56,349 --> 00:11:58,570 Speaker 2: these things addressed and you are happy that this is 236 00:11:58,580 --> 00:12:01,169 Speaker 2: beer money, right? Then do your homework 237 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,530 Speaker 2: and there's a world of products, there's a world of opportunities. 238 00:12:04,539 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: Um and being young, like I said, you can afford 239 00:12:07,090 --> 00:12:09,659 Speaker 2: to take more risk, but it's not like a must 240 00:12:09,669 --> 00:12:10,549 Speaker 2: do or it 241 00:12:10,909 --> 00:12:13,849 Speaker 2: something which are compulsory because you're young, right? Yeah. So 242 00:12:13,859 --> 00:12:15,390 Speaker 2: I wanted to pick up on that. So there is 243 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:20,159 Speaker 2: obviously another camp that says, you know what, at 2.5% 244 00:12:20,169 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: leaving my money in CPF. Not a big deal. Not 245 00:12:23,090 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 2: so bad. I should just ignore it, let it roll. 246 00:12:25,729 --> 00:12:28,500 Speaker 2: I'll let it sleep in my CPF account. What do 247 00:12:28,510 --> 00:12:32,820 Speaker 2: you say to this? 2.5% will be short of inflation obviously, 248 00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:34,989 Speaker 2: but given the fact that he's going to compound over 249 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,599 Speaker 2: a period of time, you know, long term is not 250 00:12:37,609 --> 00:12:39,858 Speaker 2: that bad. And if you don't have the risk appetite 251 00:12:39,869 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 2: or the aptitude to invest, then that's the best for you. Right. 252 00:12:44,099 --> 00:12:46,469 Speaker 2: You can outsource, you can put your money into a 253 00:12:46,479 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: fund and have a regular way of investing. There are 254 00:12:49,890 --> 00:12:52,830 Speaker 2: some tradeoffs with that because you outsource to somebody, you 255 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,340 Speaker 2: rely on their strategy, of course, you have to pay them. 256 00:12:55,549 --> 00:12:57,130 Speaker 2: So there are some of these things that you have 257 00:12:57,140 --> 00:13:00,039 Speaker 2: to be happy with. But to me that's fine. If 258 00:13:00,049 --> 00:13:02,630 Speaker 2: that is your personality, your profile is fine, there's nothing 259 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 2: too bad about it. You won't lose out necessarily. Well, 260 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 2: you will not have something that grows as quickly, right? 261 00:13:08,890 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 2: With compounding, perhaps you could, you know, depends on again 262 00:13:12,450 --> 00:13:14,390 Speaker 2: what the inflation outlook is in the next two or 263 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:15,179 Speaker 2: three years. But 264 00:13:15,489 --> 00:13:20,219 Speaker 2: if things hopefully taper down without runaway hyper inflation, then 265 00:13:20,229 --> 00:13:24,429 Speaker 2: it's OK. Right. But if inflation becomes a bit out 266 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,329 Speaker 2: of control, then of course, it puts a lot of 267 00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:29,530 Speaker 2: pressure on, then even 2.5 can sort of fall into 268 00:13:29,539 --> 00:13:31,469 Speaker 2: the camp of a bit lazy money. 269 00:13:32,729 --> 00:13:35,030 Speaker 2: But then again, overall interest rate should adjust. Like if 270 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:38,380 Speaker 2: things persist at a high level, we, we shall see. Ok. 271 00:13:38,390 --> 00:13:41,469 Speaker 2: So that's the other thing that I wanted to touch 272 00:13:41,479 --> 00:13:46,579 Speaker 2: on there is this longer investment horizon. We're talking about 273 00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:48,820 Speaker 2: 20 to 25 years before you can even touch that 274 00:13:48,830 --> 00:13:52,299 Speaker 2: money in your CPF. Right. So you would need to 275 00:13:52,309 --> 00:13:55,429 Speaker 2: rid the ups and downs of the market again, depending 276 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,590 Speaker 2: on your risk, appetite, your aptitude to stomach all the 277 00:13:58,599 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 2: ups and downs of volatility in the market. 278 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,739 Speaker 2: So it's obviously as a younger person in your twenties 279 00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:07,630 Speaker 2: and thirties, you'd feel easily disheartened. You might even panic. Um, 280 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,020 Speaker 2: when you see your investments in the negative, it's turning 281 00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:13,900 Speaker 2: red on the piece of paper or rather it's on 282 00:14:13,909 --> 00:14:17,859 Speaker 2: your digital app. Now, what advice would you have in 283 00:14:17,869 --> 00:14:18,450 Speaker 2: terms of 284 00:14:18,664 --> 00:14:23,155 Speaker 2: emotionally handling these episodes? So there are two parts to it. Right. 285 00:14:23,164 --> 00:14:26,215 Speaker 2: I think most people would be still using the CPF 286 00:14:26,224 --> 00:14:30,304 Speaker 2: especially they heavily for their mortgage. That is an investment 287 00:14:30,315 --> 00:14:32,155 Speaker 2: in itself because you are using it to pay down 288 00:14:32,164 --> 00:14:36,554 Speaker 2: a loan on a property which you hope will sustain value. 289 00:14:36,830 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 2: So it's also an investment in terms of investing in 290 00:14:39,890 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: financial market products which are more volatile than your home. 291 00:14:43,010 --> 00:14:45,289 Speaker 2: Then of course, it comes back to my point at 292 00:14:45,299 --> 00:14:48,059 Speaker 2: the outset. Do you have the attitude to take this? Right. 293 00:14:48,599 --> 00:14:51,390 Speaker 2: It will be ups and downs. My advice is if 294 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:56,380 Speaker 2: you feel stressed, don't delete the app or whatever, don't, 295 00:14:56,390 --> 00:14:56,820 Speaker 2: don't stand 296 00:14:56,909 --> 00:14:59,940 Speaker 2: did every other day in your office, then perhaps you 297 00:14:59,950 --> 00:15:03,609 Speaker 2: should outsource some of your investing or tear down in 298 00:15:03,619 --> 00:15:05,570 Speaker 2: terms of your risk profile. So you don't have this 299 00:15:05,580 --> 00:15:09,190 Speaker 2: sort of volatility, right? So move from a moderately conservative, 300 00:15:09,369 --> 00:15:13,690 Speaker 2: slightly more conservative. Correct, correct. My advice is always keep 301 00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:16,690 Speaker 2: an eye on the objective, right? What have you invested 302 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: in are the fundamentals of the underlying assets? Have they changed? 303 00:15:21,559 --> 00:15:25,659 Speaker 2: Notwithstanding an event or a market episode, have they changed? Right. 304 00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:28,169 Speaker 2: Obviously COVID has given us a very good example of 305 00:15:28,179 --> 00:15:33,159 Speaker 2: how some fundamental stocks, businesses can be impacted. So you 306 00:15:33,169 --> 00:15:35,669 Speaker 2: really get a sense of, ok, are we facing the 307 00:15:35,679 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: kind of Black Swan situation or is it, you know, 308 00:15:38,530 --> 00:15:41,070 Speaker 2: really a sense of a situation where a short term 309 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,330 Speaker 2: market psychology, 310 00:15:42,590 --> 00:15:45,419 Speaker 2: an industry event, which is sort of limiting, it will 311 00:15:45,429 --> 00:15:47,830 Speaker 2: be limiting, although it looks very bad perhaps on the 312 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,020 Speaker 2: day's newspaper. Sure. But if you look over a cycle, 313 00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:54,369 Speaker 2: you will be limiting. So if your fundamentals are there, 314 00:15:54,419 --> 00:15:57,270 Speaker 2: the assets, the business that you've invested in or the 315 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: stock that you've invested in the fundamentals have not changed. 316 00:16:00,090 --> 00:16:03,109 Speaker 2: Stay the course. Yeah, I think that's the piece of 317 00:16:03,119 --> 00:16:05,619 Speaker 2: advice that we've been hearing consistently here on money talks 318 00:16:05,630 --> 00:16:08,349 Speaker 2: is that you look at the market fundamentals or even 319 00:16:08,359 --> 00:16:10,260 Speaker 2: the businesses fundamentals, 320 00:16:10,645 --> 00:16:15,015 Speaker 2: funds fundamentals. If they have remained intact over the course 321 00:16:15,025 --> 00:16:18,854 Speaker 2: of say something like COVID, then it's just best to 322 00:16:18,864 --> 00:16:22,174 Speaker 2: stay the course. Don't back out, just don't panic just 323 00:16:22,184 --> 00:16:24,655 Speaker 2: because you see the first sign of bad news and 324 00:16:24,664 --> 00:16:27,244 Speaker 2: that premises again, back to our basic that these monies 325 00:16:27,255 --> 00:16:29,534 Speaker 2: are beer money, right? It is something which you have 326 00:16:29,544 --> 00:16:31,474 Speaker 2: no sudden need or you don't say that I'm going to, 327 00:16:31,484 --> 00:16:34,044 Speaker 2: I really need that cash in one month's time because 328 00:16:34,054 --> 00:16:36,174 Speaker 2: of XYZ. So you got to make sure that this 329 00:16:36,184 --> 00:16:38,125 Speaker 2: is not the kind of that part of your funds. 330 00:16:41,530 --> 00:16:44,650 Speaker 2: Hello, everyone. My name is Christina and I'm Adrian and 331 00:16:44,659 --> 00:16:46,979 Speaker 2: we're the host of a podcast called Work It. If 332 00:16:46,989 --> 00:16:48,989 Speaker 2: you never heard of it. Well, it's a good time 333 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,700 Speaker 2: to tap in, in the last 20 episodes. We've discussed 334 00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:54,809 Speaker 2: topics like how to negotiate for a salary increase or 335 00:16:54,820 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: how to get along with younger colleagues who have different 336 00:16:57,409 --> 00:16:58,780 Speaker 2: values from you, which 337 00:16:58,890 --> 00:17:02,530 Speaker 2: incidentally it's our top performing episode. If work consumes your 338 00:17:02,539 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 2: life and you want some perspective on issues like management stress, 339 00:17:06,209 --> 00:17:10,099 Speaker 2: even office romance, then this podcast should be on your list. 340 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 2: A new episode drops every Monday. Catch us on the 341 00:17:13,170 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 2: CN A app or wherever you get your podcast. 342 00:17:19,819 --> 00:17:22,079 Speaker 2: So one of the things obviously, and we've talked about 343 00:17:22,089 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 2: this during this conversation, Lawrence is how we use CPF 344 00:17:25,449 --> 00:17:28,890 Speaker 2: to pay off our housing loans for these younger people 345 00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: in their twenties and thirties, they would either have a 346 00:17:31,569 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: BT O or a younger flat relatively or just they're 347 00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 2: just being that by virtue of the fact that they're younger, 348 00:17:37,069 --> 00:17:39,530 Speaker 2: they have the option of using their CPF to pay 349 00:17:39,540 --> 00:17:42,790 Speaker 2: off their housing loan as quickly as possible. And I 350 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:44,510 Speaker 2: know people who have done this, 351 00:17:44,755 --> 00:17:47,425 Speaker 2: but then they fall into the trap of weak cash flow, 352 00:17:47,435 --> 00:17:51,244 Speaker 2: for example. So overall using your CPF to clear your 353 00:17:51,255 --> 00:17:56,974 Speaker 2: housing loan, is this a sound strategy rather than using 354 00:17:57,005 --> 00:18:00,564 Speaker 2: the money for investments, for example. So again, it boils 355 00:18:00,574 --> 00:18:04,114 Speaker 2: back down to where are your lazy money for each individual, right? 356 00:18:04,255 --> 00:18:09,364 Speaker 2: If your CPF funds at 2.5% is your Laziest money 357 00:18:09,719 --> 00:18:11,989 Speaker 2: because you have put your funds in things that you 358 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,698 Speaker 2: can yield 10 15% or whatever or be higher risk, 359 00:18:15,819 --> 00:18:18,599 Speaker 2: then of course, paying down loans is always a good 360 00:18:18,609 --> 00:18:23,250 Speaker 2: thing to me. Right. So if you sacrifice 2.5% but you, 361 00:18:23,260 --> 00:18:25,579 Speaker 2: you are saving 5% on your housing loan, Hey, that's 362 00:18:25,589 --> 00:18:28,688 Speaker 2: a good carry. So if that's your Laziest money, then 363 00:18:28,699 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 2: of course. Right? But if you have lazy money, then don't, right. 364 00:18:31,410 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: If you have lazier money somewhere, then don't. So at 365 00:18:33,810 --> 00:18:34,899 Speaker 2: the end of the day, you have to look at 366 00:18:34,910 --> 00:18:35,949 Speaker 2: where your funds are. 367 00:18:36,219 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 2: So that's the way to sort of make that decision 368 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 2: for most younger people with mortgage. My advice is don't 369 00:18:42,369 --> 00:18:45,819 Speaker 2: forget that your mortgage, you're paying 4 5%. That's a 370 00:18:45,829 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: drag on your investment, your overall wealth, right? So you 371 00:18:49,569 --> 00:18:53,229 Speaker 2: can pay off do so. Ok. Ok. That's good advice. 372 00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:56,209 Speaker 2: Have you had any stories where 373 00:18:56,449 --> 00:19:00,609 Speaker 2: uh CPF investments have gone awry? Any pitfalls that you've 374 00:19:00,619 --> 00:19:02,900 Speaker 2: heard of that we need to be aware of because 375 00:19:02,910 --> 00:19:05,089 Speaker 2: I've heard of some myself, but I wanted to hear 376 00:19:05,099 --> 00:19:08,180 Speaker 2: from you what you've heard on your side. I think 377 00:19:08,189 --> 00:19:12,139 Speaker 2: the CPF IFI S scheme is relatively ring fenced. Hence, 378 00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:14,719 Speaker 2: there's always a logic why you can only invest in 379 00:19:14,729 --> 00:19:18,719 Speaker 2: certain type of products. So where people have lost money 380 00:19:18,729 --> 00:19:21,718 Speaker 2: it is more because of market risk, right? And 381 00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 2: they needed the funds immediately and, and it was not 382 00:19:25,170 --> 00:19:28,319 Speaker 2: a good time. Hence the milk powder money versus beer 383 00:19:28,329 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 2: money thing. So they were not clear how long term 384 00:19:32,170 --> 00:19:34,849 Speaker 2: could they deploy the funds. Right. And, and of course, 385 00:19:34,859 --> 00:19:37,219 Speaker 2: we always always have a camp of people who panic 386 00:19:37,229 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 2: and they decide to withdraw and then they basically crystallize 387 00:19:41,050 --> 00:19:44,530 Speaker 2: the loss. So the horror stories have been well relatively 388 00:19:44,540 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 2: mild because it's not because of scams or some 389 00:19:47,989 --> 00:19:52,589 Speaker 2: regulated scheme that has misled. So CPFIS is kind of contained. 390 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:55,619 Speaker 2: So I've not heard of any scam related or people 391 00:19:55,630 --> 00:19:58,939 Speaker 2: who have invested in, in stuff which have turned negative 392 00:19:58,949 --> 00:20:02,329 Speaker 2: because they were poorly regulated. Right? Yeah. So CPF SI 393 00:20:02,339 --> 00:20:06,089 Speaker 2: S is really contained. Ok. That's good. That's reassuring. 394 00:20:06,489 --> 00:20:10,739 Speaker 2: Ok, so wanted to get your thoughts on the best 395 00:20:10,750 --> 00:20:15,069 Speaker 2: hacks for growing CPF money within a 20 to 25 396 00:20:15,079 --> 00:20:18,579 Speaker 2: year horizon. Ok. Let's hear it. So a couple of things, 397 00:20:18,589 --> 00:20:19,979 Speaker 2: I'm going to start with a big picture. Of course, 398 00:20:19,989 --> 00:20:23,420 Speaker 2: I have to champion money since and if so best 399 00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:27,099 Speaker 2: hack is invest in yourself, come to our platform ifl 400 00:20:27,109 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 2: we conduct courses 401 00:20:27,944 --> 00:20:31,104 Speaker 2: for free, including some of these investment topics and a 402 00:20:31,114 --> 00:20:34,324 Speaker 2: lot more. Secondly, with your twenties and thirties, I would 403 00:20:34,334 --> 00:20:38,545 Speaker 2: imagine you want to also save on tax and CPF 404 00:20:38,555 --> 00:20:41,714 Speaker 2: is a good way, we all get tax relief. But 405 00:20:41,724 --> 00:20:43,324 Speaker 2: if you are starting out and you are not at 406 00:20:43,334 --> 00:20:47,044 Speaker 2: AC PF wage cap, which is 6000, it's going to 407 00:20:47,055 --> 00:20:50,004 Speaker 2: be 6003 in September this year, by the way. So 408 00:20:50,015 --> 00:20:52,025 Speaker 2: your wage is not there, right? And you have an 409 00:20:52,035 --> 00:20:55,014 Speaker 2: additional wages that your employer pays you. Maybe 410 00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:59,260 Speaker 2: for specific duties, not additional duties. You may get some 411 00:20:59,270 --> 00:21:02,239 Speaker 2: commissions from sales or you may get some employers pay 412 00:21:02,250 --> 00:21:05,589 Speaker 2: you for your handphone. So some of these go and 413 00:21:05,599 --> 00:21:08,938 Speaker 2: check out whether some of them qualify as wages, if 414 00:21:08,949 --> 00:21:13,739 Speaker 2: you can contribute additional wages to your CPF, of course, 415 00:21:13,790 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 2: that's better and you get additional relief. So those help 416 00:21:16,449 --> 00:21:17,599 Speaker 2: you on the tax side, right? 417 00:21:18,050 --> 00:21:22,170 Speaker 2: Um If you're self-employed, many 2030 years could be self-employed. 418 00:21:22,219 --> 00:21:25,889 Speaker 2: Don't forget to contribute, right? I heard of instances where 419 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,699 Speaker 2: you don't contribute because you, you think that you, you 420 00:21:28,709 --> 00:21:30,438 Speaker 2: maybe you are so busy or you don't have the 421 00:21:30,449 --> 00:21:33,150 Speaker 2: sense that this is the important part because if your 422 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,349 Speaker 2: salary staff is automated, right? But self-employed, you have to 423 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,589 Speaker 2: do it. So contribute regularly as if you are an 424 00:21:39,599 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 2: employee and an employer, both sides top up 425 00:21:43,015 --> 00:21:46,426 Speaker 2: or a medisave account and these are all tax benefits. 426 00:21:46,436 --> 00:21:48,436 Speaker 2: So to me, those are the very clear hacks that 427 00:21:48,446 --> 00:21:50,595 Speaker 2: you should take advantage of. Those are really great hacks. Laurence, 428 00:21:50,605 --> 00:21:53,406 Speaker 2: I have to say very, very good ones and final 429 00:21:53,416 --> 00:21:57,426 Speaker 2: advice for young people thinking of dipping their toes into 430 00:21:57,436 --> 00:22:00,715 Speaker 2: CPF investing, maybe top three pieces of advice. Well, I 431 00:22:00,725 --> 00:22:02,536 Speaker 2: like to use the ABC S, right? OK. So first 432 00:22:02,546 --> 00:22:06,225 Speaker 2: thing investing to avoid investments, which doesn't fit your risk 433 00:22:06,234 --> 00:22:07,885 Speaker 2: profile if you are going to be 434 00:22:07,982 --> 00:22:11,541 Speaker 2: panicking and worried all the time to avoid. That second 435 00:22:11,552 --> 00:22:17,021 Speaker 2: thing is be careful. I call it maybe the formal mentality. Yes. OK. Yes, 436 00:22:17,182 --> 00:22:20,011 Speaker 2: I think you do that. So you hear somebody says, oh, 437 00:22:20,021 --> 00:22:22,232 Speaker 2: this is the best game in town and this person 438 00:22:22,241 --> 00:22:24,702 Speaker 2: says that he made so much money from it. Formal 439 00:22:24,712 --> 00:22:27,401 Speaker 2: builds up, right? Be very careful to sort of put 440 00:22:27,411 --> 00:22:29,251 Speaker 2: that at bay and do your own research. Like go 441 00:22:29,261 --> 00:22:31,182 Speaker 2: back to the fundamentals, do your own research. Do you 442 00:22:31,192 --> 00:22:32,891 Speaker 2: have the aptitude and the risk appetite? 443 00:22:33,109 --> 00:22:35,260 Speaker 2: Is this beer money or milk powder money? Some of 444 00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: these things, right? What is the objective of your investment? 445 00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:41,510 Speaker 2: And of course, c is always be careful about your 446 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,650 Speaker 2: CPF two CS, but always be careful with your CPF 447 00:22:44,660 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: because I've lived through the twenties and thirties. I think 448 00:22:46,569 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 2: when I was at the age, I also felt that 449 00:22:47,969 --> 00:22:51,139 Speaker 2: CPF is something like somehow it takes away my cash flow. 450 00:22:51,150 --> 00:22:53,619 Speaker 2: I I wish I had the cash flow because I 451 00:22:53,630 --> 00:22:56,239 Speaker 2: needed for housing. You sort of either belittle it, ignore 452 00:22:56,250 --> 00:22:58,060 Speaker 2: it or be agitated with it, right? And plus you 453 00:22:58,069 --> 00:23:00,669 Speaker 2: have a lot of people who may spew wise cracks 454 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 2: about the fact that the government is taking your money 455 00:23:02,530 --> 00:23:02,899 Speaker 2: and stuff. 456 00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:05,839 Speaker 2: So you have all these hotspots. But again, I think 457 00:23:05,849 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 2: that the most important thing is don't underestimate the power 458 00:23:09,209 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: of CPF, 459 00:23:10,189 --> 00:23:12,688 Speaker 2: I think for Singaporeans, it is one of the most 460 00:23:12,699 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 2: important financial asset. If you manage it well from young 461 00:23:16,449 --> 00:23:18,589 Speaker 2: in your twenties and thirties, you will be well placed 462 00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:21,469 Speaker 2: in your forties and fifties. When you see the benefit 463 00:23:21,479 --> 00:23:24,469 Speaker 2: of CPF coming back, it's that nest egg that we 464 00:23:24,479 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 2: always thought for sure. So investing your CPF money can 465 00:23:28,569 --> 00:23:31,859 Speaker 2: be a great way to grow that retirement nest egg. 466 00:23:31,869 --> 00:23:34,150 Speaker 2: As long as you keep your eye on the prize 467 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 2: like Lauren says, 468 00:23:35,819 --> 00:23:38,459 Speaker 2: and remember it's a long game that you're playing when 469 00:23:38,469 --> 00:23:42,089 Speaker 2: it comes to CPFIS. As with all investments, of course, 470 00:23:42,099 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 2: do your homework. Keep on top of developments. Don't get 471 00:23:45,729 --> 00:23:48,729 Speaker 2: into trends and products you don't understand. Don't give in 472 00:23:48,739 --> 00:23:52,180 Speaker 2: to that formal thanks, Lawrence for the great advice and 473 00:23:52,189 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 2: for being here today. Oh, you're welcome. It's a pleasure. 474 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,250 Speaker 2: And thank you to you, our listener. If you've enjoyed 475 00:23:57,260 --> 00:24:00,530 Speaker 2: this episode of Money Talks, there's always more content for 476 00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:04,369 Speaker 2: you to enjoy. Simply follow us on Apple podcasts or Spotify. 477 00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:07,469 Speaker 2: Give us five stars or leave a review while you're there. 478 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:11,609 Speaker 2: The team behind Money Talks is Jacqueline Chan, Joanne Chan, Tiffany, 479 00:24:11,619 --> 00:24:15,229 Speaker 2: Ang Christina Robert and I'm Andrea. He