WEBVTT - Will we see a return of the haze this year?

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<v Speaker 1>This is a CNA podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Climate Conversations. I'm Yasmin Y your guest

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<v Speaker 1>host today and I'm sitting in for Julie Yu, who's

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<v Speaker 1>normally the big star of this show. Julie is away

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<v Speaker 1>on a well deserved break.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, if you've been feeling hot under the collar, like

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<v Speaker 1>I have because of searing temperatures here in Singapore and

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<v Speaker 1>around the region, you may have to brace yourselves for

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<v Speaker 1>something even worse. The haze might be back.

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<v Speaker 2>Singapore's interagency haze task force is preparing for possible haze ahead. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>that's as drier and warmer weather is expected to persist

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<v Speaker 2>from next month through to October.

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<v Speaker 1>So let me take you back

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<v Speaker 1>to 2015. Singapore was choked with smock. Remember that guys?

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<v Speaker 1>It was as bad as to have schools be shut

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<v Speaker 1>and even mcdonald's the usual trusty delivery wasn't actually sending

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<v Speaker 1>those nuggets that she like to your door because they

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to protect their delivery guys. Well, just last week,

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<v Speaker 1>the Met Service sounded the Hayes alarm telling all of

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<v Speaker 1>us to

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<v Speaker 1>get our masks and air purifiers ready for those of

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<v Speaker 1>us who remember how bad it was in 2015 and

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<v Speaker 1>then again, in 2019. The question on our minds will

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<v Speaker 1>this year be just as bad with me to answer

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<v Speaker 1>that and to talk about everything else. Hayworth is Associate

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<v Speaker 1>Professor Simon Tate. He is the chairman of the Singapore

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<v Speaker 1>Institute of International Affairs Professor. Welcome to the climate conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>How

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<v Speaker 1>are you today? Surprised by that big haze announcement in Singapore.

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<v Speaker 1>Sadly not, we've been expecting it because all our research

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<v Speaker 1>shows quite similar signs. It's going to be drier than

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<v Speaker 1>the last three years, that's for sure. And now could

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<v Speaker 1>it be a full blow? And Nino predictions have gone

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<v Speaker 1>from about 60% just a month ago to about 80%.

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<v Speaker 1>The weather is really in God's control. It's not for

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<v Speaker 1>human beings, but there are things we can do but

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<v Speaker 1>governments have to be center of action.

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<v Speaker 1>Ok. Now, the thing is we are a little confused as,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, sort of regular people because I mean, we've

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<v Speaker 1>been reading that, yeah, there's El Nino but then suddenly

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<v Speaker 1>it's connected to haze and then it becomes a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of an alarm and then you look out the window,

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<v Speaker 1>the skies are really clear. Air quality seems fine.

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<v Speaker 1>People are even being asked like, are you going to

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<v Speaker 1>be stuck up in 95 masks? Not really, not many

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<v Speaker 1>people are perturbed. So this is all a little sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>I have to say for the average person. Yes, it is.

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<v Speaker 1>I think for the average person, the weather it seems

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<v Speaker 1>like here and now. But of course, there is always

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<v Speaker 1>an effort to look ahead.

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<v Speaker 1>So the good outcome for any early warning is not

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<v Speaker 1>to have the problem. Now, if you check it more carefully,

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<v Speaker 1>we've really seen warning signs already emerged. It's isolated problems

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<v Speaker 1>like the heat spells, we all feel that, that it

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<v Speaker 1>creates drier weather and if it is a prolonged and

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<v Speaker 1>deeper drought, then there could be fires and there have

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<v Speaker 1>been fires in our region and heat spells. And up

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<v Speaker 1>north in Indo China, Thailand, they've had fires and there

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<v Speaker 1>have been warning signs of fires. Now in Malaysia, not

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<v Speaker 1>yet Indonesia, but

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<v Speaker 1>the Malaysian Minister has said there is a risk of haze.

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<v Speaker 1>And in Indonesia, President Jo Kui has also sent an

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<v Speaker 1>early signal to warn his local officials in the areas

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<v Speaker 1>just south of us that he will not tolerate Pfizer haze.

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<v Speaker 1>So our region is likely to experience a much drier

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<v Speaker 1>weather in the coming months, not immediately in the next

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<v Speaker 1>few weeks, but in the coming months, it will deepen

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<v Speaker 1>and that's where the risk will be. So it sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like it's creeping closer and closer to Singapore. You were

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<v Speaker 1>talking about Indochina and then it seems to be creeping

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<v Speaker 1>south and

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<v Speaker 1>does come back to Singapore this year. How do you

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<v Speaker 1>suppose it will compare with the choking haze of 2015

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<v Speaker 1>or even 2019? Well, I think there is some relatively

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<v Speaker 1>good news in 2015 in 2013 longer back there weren't

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<v Speaker 1>really strong systems in place to try to suppress or

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<v Speaker 1>even better, still prevent fires while whether possible El Nino

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<v Speaker 1>is the main worry. It's not fatalistic. Right. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>there are things that men, women

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<v Speaker 1>operations and governments can do and so there is a

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<v Speaker 1>prospect that it won't be as bad as 2015, but

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<v Speaker 1>that's not complacency. That's really a call for action that

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<v Speaker 1>the systems that we put in place has to be

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<v Speaker 1>double checked to make sure they're working. It's like any

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<v Speaker 1>fire prevention, right? Once in a while, you got to

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<v Speaker 1>pick up those fire canisters and see, is there stuff

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<v Speaker 1>still in there in case the fire goes off and

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<v Speaker 1>that's kind of how we need to approach it. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>it's good that the government of Indonesia, Malaysia and our

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<v Speaker 1>own all take this seriously. All right. And you talked

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<v Speaker 1>about the system

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<v Speaker 1>systems in place. Do you mind going through them with us?

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<v Speaker 1>And how often are they really checked? And what really are?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know the key points to understand whether they

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<v Speaker 1>still work or not. Yes, I think there's always some

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<v Speaker 1>skepticism about how thoroughly any government can implement a decision.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course, when the case of Indonesia will be

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<v Speaker 1>such a large bowling archipelago, it's going to be hard

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<v Speaker 1>to imagine that a rule set in Jakarta in some

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<v Speaker 1>ministry can really have effect on the ground. And

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<v Speaker 1>with this year elections coming up, there have been records

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<v Speaker 1>in the past that local officials will tend to let

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<v Speaker 1>small holders and small companies kind of clear more land

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<v Speaker 1>as a kind of bonus to them to curry favor.

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<v Speaker 1>But I must credit the Indonesian government and especially President

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<v Speaker 1>Jokowi for doing things that nobody has before. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>stopping the haze ending the fires for the sake of

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<v Speaker 1>Indonesian people is really a hallmark of his administration these

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<v Speaker 1>last few years. That's one reason why we've had kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a blue sky amnesia. We've forgotten

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<v Speaker 1>what the haze was like way back when I just

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to add in as well. I mean, he once

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<v Speaker 1>famously put out, I suppose almost his phone number personally

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<v Speaker 1>for people to report if there was a haze situation

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<v Speaker 1>and he talked about how embarrassing it was that his

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<v Speaker 1>country might have been the cause of this situation. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>he's actually been to fire regions during the fires. And

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<v Speaker 1>he's understood that when fires happen in Indonesia, it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>the Indonesians who suffer the most. We like second hand smokers.

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<v Speaker 1>It's bad, but it's not like being right next to

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<v Speaker 1>the fire in fear of your life. And

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<v Speaker 1>people Indonesia have died, Children have died from past bad

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<v Speaker 1>fires in 2019 and 2015. Now this is the last

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<v Speaker 1>few 18 months or so of his government and really

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<v Speaker 1>his changes, I hope will outlive him and really be

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<v Speaker 1>that legacy, for example, the president actually oversees law enforcement platforms.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, he has almost daily call with a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the military and provincial officials outside Jakarta to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure this is actually happening. Secondly, his Minister for Environment

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<v Speaker 1>and Forest

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<v Speaker 1>City, no Baa has actually investigated and taken legal action

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<v Speaker 1>against the bad companies linked to the fire. So really

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<v Speaker 1>compared to the past, people are being prosecuted institutionally, Indonesia

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<v Speaker 1>has also created things like the Peatland and Mangrove restoration Agency.

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<v Speaker 1>Now that sounds like a green gang. But really a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the worst haze comes from fires on peatland.

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<v Speaker 1>They kind of different kind of soil that has a

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<v Speaker 1>way of small rain and issuing a lot of soot

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<v Speaker 1>haze and of course CO2 gasses,

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<v Speaker 1>but you talked about elections coming up as well. If

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<v Speaker 1>President Jokowi has done very well, should we be concerned

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<v Speaker 1>that should there be an administration change? Things in the

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<v Speaker 1>future might be a little bit questionable. Well, I think if,

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<v Speaker 1>when it changes, because President Jokowi has run out of

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<v Speaker 1>his two terms, there will be lots of changes and

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<v Speaker 1>this is one area to watch, but I'm confident that

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<v Speaker 1>Indonesia has made pledges internationally, not just to ASEAN in

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<v Speaker 1>the region, but

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<v Speaker 1>in global terms, its Paris Agreement on climate change have

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<v Speaker 1>really made Indonesia pledge against deforestation against increasing its CO2 emissions.

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<v Speaker 1>And so these pledges internationally will create a pressure on

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<v Speaker 1>any person coming in to fulfill more than that Indonesia

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<v Speaker 1>has really shifted from seeing, you know, let's use the

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<v Speaker 1>land no matter how we clear it to let's not

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<v Speaker 1>clear the land, if possible, let's produce more crops, more

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<v Speaker 1>products

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<v Speaker 1>activity. So it's deforestation rates have actually come down compared

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<v Speaker 1>to like Brazil. This is a great accomplishment. And additionally,

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<v Speaker 1>you can see opportunities for investment. You know, we all

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<v Speaker 1>talk about carbon credits conservation projects. Now, if Indonesia can

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<v Speaker 1>conserve projects and improve the world, it's sequestering carbon locking

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<v Speaker 1>it in, there's money to be made. There are a

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<v Speaker 1>number of projects already running in Kalimantan, which used to

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<v Speaker 1>be very

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<v Speaker 1>fire prone and these projects are successfully conserving land, helping

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<v Speaker 1>local communities and of course, selling carbon credits to international companies,

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<v Speaker 1>Shell and a number of other really global players. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>like you say, it's possibly his lasting legacy and hopefully

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<v Speaker 1>something that will be brought forward to future administrations and generations.

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<v Speaker 1>But Indonesia's side, let's talk about every other country here

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<v Speaker 1>in ASEAN. I mean, we've got Malaysia, they are

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<v Speaker 1>spots in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar as well. How close

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<v Speaker 1>are we to getting a regional understanding and a regional

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<v Speaker 1>ability to work together to fight haze? Yes, I think

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<v Speaker 1>first we have tended to see the southern haze which

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<v Speaker 1>we were talking about mainly from Indonesia and sometimes from

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<v Speaker 1>East Malaysia, separately from the northeast Asian haze coming from Myanmar,

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<v Speaker 1>Thailand and that in the Chinese area.

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<v Speaker 1>Now there was a plan after 2020 for haze free ASEAN.

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess because we had so little haze in

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<v Speaker 1>the last few years, that's gone a bit quiet now

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<v Speaker 1>with 2023. So we kind of need a new plan.

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<v Speaker 1>One very simple thing is to make a very uniform

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<v Speaker 1>system of measurement so that we know what levels of

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<v Speaker 1>haze we're seeing across the board. And how far away

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<v Speaker 1>are we from that? Like any

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<v Speaker 1>open negotiation, there will be some officials, they need to

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<v Speaker 1>work through details that we'll have to see. And I

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<v Speaker 1>admit that sometimes if I'm Indonesian, I always feel that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in the bad boy box. So we've got to

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<v Speaker 1>find a way from moving from finger pointing to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of cooperation. I don't mean to mean soft cooperation, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>really practical work together and that's still take us beyond government.

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<v Speaker 1>I think one of the major factors that's improved and

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<v Speaker 1>gives me hope really it will be about the companies,

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<v Speaker 1>corporate behavior is critical, like in anything to do with

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<v Speaker 1>climate and environment, governments can do their share, they must,

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<v Speaker 1>citizens must. But Corporates who run the plantation sector who

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<v Speaker 1>buy and sell the goods that come out of the

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<v Speaker 1>crops associated with the haze, they have to do their

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<v Speaker 1>part too.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a time in the middle of last year

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<v Speaker 1>when it seemed that the China we are familiar with

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<v Speaker 1>was a completely different place when the rest of the

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<v Speaker 1>world moved on from the COVID-19 pandemic. As many as

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<v Speaker 1>300 million Chinese people were under some form of a

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<v Speaker 1>mandatory lockdown.

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<v Speaker 1>There were only two things on my mind to find

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<v Speaker 1>food and to not go crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>Then suddenly the people decided to take things into their

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<v Speaker 1>own hands.

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<v Speaker 1>For the first time in more than 30 years, protests

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<v Speaker 1>swept through China and just like that zero cove ended.

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<v Speaker 1>Join me. We do for a look back at the

0:11:04.390 --> 0:11:08.150
<v Speaker 1>extraordinary year in China and hear how it might have

0:11:08.159 --> 0:11:10.699
<v Speaker 1>changed the country for good.

0:11:11.390 --> 0:11:15.619
<v Speaker 1>Catch a red wall inside China's Zero COVID World A

0:11:15.630 --> 0:11:19.978
<v Speaker 1>two part podcast series by CN A. It's available now

0:11:19.989 --> 0:11:23.940
<v Speaker 1>on the CN A and me listen apps, Spotify, Apple

0:11:23.950 --> 0:11:25.419
<v Speaker 1>and Google podcasts.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people though say that the story of getting the

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<v Speaker 1>measurement standardized is actually low hanging fruit other than corporations,

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<v Speaker 1>other than what the government must do urgently. What about people?

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<v Speaker 1>How can they enforce change? Do you think? Well, first

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<v Speaker 1>I have no problems with low hanging fruit. That's probably

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<v Speaker 1>the right person. And before they go back on the tree,

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<v Speaker 1>we should eat them because that is a way of

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<v Speaker 1>really creating that sense of

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<v Speaker 1>win and cooperation. And I would say that citizens and

0:11:59.825 --> 0:12:03.176
<v Speaker 1>companies come together, you know, I mean, why are companies

0:12:03.184 --> 0:12:07.526
<v Speaker 1>behaving better because consumers demanded they are seeing consumer boycotts

0:12:07.535 --> 0:12:09.934
<v Speaker 1>especially in the West. But when we had the haze here,

0:12:09.945 --> 0:12:12.145
<v Speaker 1>some years ago, there were products there was a toilet

0:12:12.155 --> 0:12:15.545
<v Speaker 1>paper boycott, wasn't there. Yeah. And NTUC, one of the

0:12:15.556 --> 0:12:18.915
<v Speaker 1>biggest chains took it off the shelves. This had an impact.

0:12:18.926 --> 0:12:21.736
<v Speaker 1>The companies protested their innocence but they then

0:12:21.802 --> 0:12:24.331
<v Speaker 1>had to make forward looking plans and pledges that this

0:12:24.341 --> 0:12:26.881
<v Speaker 1>won't happen again. And by and large, the soy and

0:12:26.892 --> 0:12:28.861
<v Speaker 1>I have learned to work with these companies not to

0:12:28.872 --> 0:12:30.761
<v Speaker 1>let them green wash us, but we need to look

0:12:30.771 --> 0:12:34.861
<v Speaker 1>at their plans, their commitments of money for firefighting, fire prevention.

0:12:34.881 --> 0:12:37.952
<v Speaker 1>We've also been out to some of these vast plantations.

0:12:38.101 --> 0:12:41.651
<v Speaker 1>The plantations are size of Singapore, one plantation and the

0:12:41.660 --> 0:12:45.372
<v Speaker 1>villages that around them depend so much on the economy

0:12:45.381 --> 0:12:46.831
<v Speaker 1>that's created by these plantations

0:12:47.109 --> 0:12:50.159
<v Speaker 1>in Singapore. As an urban city. We have to understand

0:12:50.169 --> 0:12:52.919
<v Speaker 1>the perspective and then try to cooperate with them, not

0:12:52.929 --> 0:12:55.599
<v Speaker 1>to excuse them, but it hurts them as well. So

0:12:55.609 --> 0:12:58.460
<v Speaker 1>I've met villagers who are really sad when this happen

0:12:58.469 --> 0:13:01.320
<v Speaker 1>because we can lock up ourselves. We can buy the

0:13:01.330 --> 0:13:04.919
<v Speaker 1>N95 mask. We can have air purifiers. These guys walk

0:13:04.929 --> 0:13:08.020
<v Speaker 1>around the streets with handkerchiefs over their faces. So it's

0:13:08.030 --> 0:13:09.059
<v Speaker 1>really a problem

0:13:09.135 --> 0:13:13.065
<v Speaker 1>that motivate people from all walks to work together. That's

0:13:13.075 --> 0:13:15.416
<v Speaker 1>why we've been working with a lot of NGO S

0:13:15.426 --> 0:13:19.226
<v Speaker 1>in Indonesia, the non government organizations that try to defend

0:13:19.236 --> 0:13:22.236
<v Speaker 1>the citizens rights. Indonesia. Yeah, it's nice to know you've

0:13:22.245 --> 0:13:24.635
<v Speaker 1>been to the oil plantations. I just want to bring

0:13:24.645 --> 0:13:26.306
<v Speaker 1>up the fact that the Eu has agreed on a

0:13:26.315 --> 0:13:29.325
<v Speaker 1>new regulation which bans the sale of palm oil. Now,

0:13:29.335 --> 0:13:31.084
<v Speaker 1>the commodities linked to deforest

0:13:31.692 --> 0:13:34.372
<v Speaker 1>and it's Indonesia and Malaysia that suffer the most when

0:13:34.381 --> 0:13:37.142
<v Speaker 1>it comes to this. This is just one sort of

0:13:37.151 --> 0:13:40.231
<v Speaker 1>issue really to complicate this whole story of haze, isn't it?

0:13:40.242 --> 0:13:42.841
<v Speaker 1>It is. In fact, that issue will be something we

0:13:42.851 --> 0:13:45.581
<v Speaker 1>are discussing at our conference on the ninth of June

0:13:45.591 --> 0:13:48.731
<v Speaker 1>because we're bringing people down from the up commission to

0:13:48.742 --> 0:13:53.111
<v Speaker 1>really help explain this imposition of European views on our region.

0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:57.000
<v Speaker 1>The Malaysians and Indonesian governments have protested it. But partly

0:13:57.010 --> 0:13:59.450
<v Speaker 1>I hoping that a positive dialogue can emerge out of

0:13:59.460 --> 0:14:02.989
<v Speaker 1>this because actually the European rules really talk about deforestation

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:07.130
<v Speaker 1>after 2020. And as I said earlier, most of Indonesia

0:14:07.140 --> 0:14:10.380
<v Speaker 1>today is not seeing deforestation anymore. It's kind of like

0:14:10.390 --> 0:14:14.010
<v Speaker 1>signaling a problem that's already passed. And therefore even the

0:14:14.020 --> 0:14:17.169
<v Speaker 1>Europeans have been accused of colonial mentality, et cetera. I

0:14:17.179 --> 0:14:20.140
<v Speaker 1>think the Indonesians and Malaysian actually are doing it for

0:14:20.150 --> 0:14:22.969
<v Speaker 1>their own sake, their own people. I'm hoping that this

0:14:23.179 --> 0:14:26.630
<v Speaker 1>dialogue which has been rather loud and nationalistic will in

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.750
<v Speaker 1>Singapore take a step forward to becoming something more cooperative

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.080
<v Speaker 1>and understanding of each other. All right, I want to

0:14:32.090 --> 0:14:35.140
<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit about technology. It's very clear that

0:14:35.150 --> 0:14:37.260
<v Speaker 1>back in 2015 when we were hit with the haze,

0:14:37.270 --> 0:14:40.640
<v Speaker 1>we weren't prepared. And then now it's still the story

0:14:40.650 --> 0:14:44.559
<v Speaker 1>of N95 masks and air filters. Do you think technology

0:14:44.570 --> 0:14:47.070
<v Speaker 1>has actually progressed from then to now. I mean, what

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.409
<v Speaker 1>new things can we do as average people to fight

0:14:50.419 --> 0:14:52.809
<v Speaker 1>the haze other than the masks and to try and

0:14:53.179 --> 0:14:56.390
<v Speaker 1>air filters? Well, that's the thing, you know, just like

0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.619
<v Speaker 1>if the climate change in the world happens, there's just

0:14:58.630 --> 0:15:01.539
<v Speaker 1>so much the individual citizen can do. So I think

0:15:01.549 --> 0:15:05.210
<v Speaker 1>the answer is really to act proactively to prevent the

0:15:05.219 --> 0:15:08.409
<v Speaker 1>haze and their technology has helped today, we publish a

0:15:08.419 --> 0:15:11.109
<v Speaker 1>haze outlook every year for the last five years. And

0:15:11.119 --> 0:15:13.119
<v Speaker 1>we're not just sticking our finger in the wind to

0:15:13.130 --> 0:15:15.590
<v Speaker 1>see what the weather is, the weather prediction and the

0:15:15.599 --> 0:15:20.330
<v Speaker 1>rainfall calculation and the monitoring of plantations and peatlands. This

0:15:20.340 --> 0:15:22.830
<v Speaker 1>has all been improved by remote sensing.

0:15:23.140 --> 0:15:26.830
<v Speaker 1>There are attempts to move the big plantation companies to

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.489
<v Speaker 1>using drones to monitor their lands for fires but also

0:15:30.500 --> 0:15:33.830
<v Speaker 1>dry conditions and to act preventively where some of the

0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.229
<v Speaker 1>concern is, of course, the small holders, they don't have

0:15:37.239 --> 0:15:40.989
<v Speaker 1>the resources, they will be much more fire at risk.

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.030
<v Speaker 1>And in between them, there are middle sized companies which

0:15:44.039 --> 0:15:47.219
<v Speaker 1>should take on these new duties and new measures, but

0:15:47.229 --> 0:15:50.429
<v Speaker 1>they're kind of not bothering. There's always some good companies

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:51.650
<v Speaker 1>and in the millions

0:15:51.737 --> 0:15:54.547
<v Speaker 1>people who do palm oil and pulp and paper, they're

0:15:54.557 --> 0:15:56.817
<v Speaker 1>going to be some bad companies. And I think that's

0:15:56.828 --> 0:15:59.328
<v Speaker 1>where the risk of the El Nino comes in because

0:15:59.338 --> 0:16:01.447
<v Speaker 1>even if you're a good company and you take care

0:16:01.458 --> 0:16:03.908
<v Speaker 1>of your own land. If there are really dry conditions,

0:16:03.918 --> 0:16:06.978
<v Speaker 1>a fire could start elsewhere and jump into your land

0:16:06.987 --> 0:16:09.617
<v Speaker 1>and once it gets going, they are very, very hard

0:16:09.627 --> 0:16:13.177
<v Speaker 1>to stop. Yeah, I remember that phenomenon from the nineties. Yeah,

0:16:13.187 --> 0:16:15.357
<v Speaker 1>but it's nice to know of the new technologies and

0:16:15.367 --> 0:16:17.778
<v Speaker 1>thank you for laying them out for us. You are

0:16:17.788 --> 0:16:20.247
<v Speaker 1>really the wise man of Hayes. I mean, you've been

0:16:20.335 --> 0:16:23.026
<v Speaker 1>working on solutions to tackle this since your son was

0:16:23.036 --> 0:16:26.745
<v Speaker 1>born in 1997. Uh It's a bit of a journey.

0:16:26.755 --> 0:16:29.106
<v Speaker 1>So what would you say are the biggest lessons for

0:16:29.116 --> 0:16:32.306
<v Speaker 1>you through all this time in working on solutions to

0:16:32.315 --> 0:16:35.825
<v Speaker 1>tackle haze? I think in a way, climate haze, they

0:16:35.835 --> 0:16:38.755
<v Speaker 1>can't be the concerns of rich urban people. Like most

0:16:38.765 --> 0:16:42.255
<v Speaker 1>of Singapore, we really have to be empathetic and cooperative.

0:16:42.265 --> 0:16:44.745
<v Speaker 1>We live in a region of great contrast and we

0:16:44.755 --> 0:16:47.455
<v Speaker 1>don't use our levers. Now we are a rich hub.

0:16:47.466 --> 0:16:48.846
<v Speaker 1>We have influence on investment.

0:16:49.054 --> 0:16:51.583
<v Speaker 1>We bring our finance over the last 56 years, the

0:16:51.593 --> 0:16:54.083
<v Speaker 1>soI A and I helped write the first survey of

0:16:54.093 --> 0:16:57.664
<v Speaker 1>green finance in Singapore, partly so that in this sector,

0:16:57.674 --> 0:17:00.744
<v Speaker 1>the plantation companies are held accountable, not just by citizens,

0:17:00.754 --> 0:17:05.203
<v Speaker 1>not buyers and sellers, but by their bankers today esg environment,

0:17:05.213 --> 0:17:08.524
<v Speaker 1>social and governance issues are now part of the package

0:17:08.534 --> 0:17:11.774
<v Speaker 1>of what we assess creditworthiness, not just can you make money,

0:17:11.784 --> 0:17:14.123
<v Speaker 1>but can you at the same time? Not do dumb

0:17:14.134 --> 0:17:17.443
<v Speaker 1>stuff like burn your lands or cause harm to people

0:17:17.531 --> 0:17:20.482
<v Speaker 1>through the haze. Just before we go, the young Children,

0:17:20.491 --> 0:17:24.631
<v Speaker 1>the adults, the elderly who may be more susceptible to haze.

0:17:24.641 --> 0:17:25.982
<v Speaker 1>Do you have a word or two? When it comes

0:17:25.991 --> 0:17:28.942
<v Speaker 1>to advice about how to manage the haze and their

0:17:28.952 --> 0:17:32.452
<v Speaker 1>conditions before things get serious for them? Well, it has been,

0:17:32.462 --> 0:17:34.352
<v Speaker 1>I've been working on this issue a long time as

0:17:34.362 --> 0:17:37.141
<v Speaker 1>a lawyer and chairman of the Institute, there are things

0:17:37.151 --> 0:17:39.641
<v Speaker 1>I know, I don't know. One of them is medical.

0:17:39.651 --> 0:17:42.212
<v Speaker 1>I think that's where people living in Singapore will have

0:17:42.222 --> 0:17:44.991
<v Speaker 1>to tolerate the problem if it arises and listen to

0:17:45.001 --> 0:17:46.041
<v Speaker 1>the government because the government

0:17:46.130 --> 0:17:48.689
<v Speaker 1>has taken care of them. Now, I wish the same

0:17:48.699 --> 0:17:50.718
<v Speaker 1>care could be given to the people in the islands

0:17:50.729 --> 0:17:53.339
<v Speaker 1>south of us. If the fires break up there or

0:17:53.349 --> 0:17:56.180
<v Speaker 1>in Kalimantan, I would rather be here than in those

0:17:56.189 --> 0:17:59.379
<v Speaker 1>villages so close to the fire and without the hospital

0:17:59.390 --> 0:18:02.639
<v Speaker 1>and other medical care that Singaporeans will get, like you say,

0:18:02.650 --> 0:18:06.099
<v Speaker 1>handkerchiefs are their best defense. Thank you so much for

0:18:06.109 --> 0:18:09.260
<v Speaker 1>the caring concern and raising the whole story about how

0:18:09.270 --> 0:18:10.979
<v Speaker 1>the story of Hayes is not just about us here

0:18:10.989 --> 0:18:14.640
<v Speaker 1>in Pore, but everywhere else you take care. Thank you man.

0:18:15.170 --> 0:18:18.430
<v Speaker 1>Thanks as ever to my guest associate Professor Simon Tay

0:18:18.439 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 1>and to you for tuning in to the climate conversations.

0:18:21.810 --> 0:18:24.930
<v Speaker 1>We hope you enjoyed this episode. Do remember you've got

0:18:24.939 --> 0:18:27.129
<v Speaker 1>to subscribe if you'd like to hear more and if

0:18:27.140 --> 0:18:30.359
<v Speaker 1>you like this podcast and that's when you'll also know

0:18:30.369 --> 0:18:32.949
<v Speaker 1>when a new episode drops, you can find

0:18:33.094 --> 0:18:37.864
<v Speaker 1>nes climate and sustainability coverage online at Cne dot Asia.

0:18:38.025 --> 0:18:40.354
<v Speaker 1>And of course, it's not just me, I'm here just

0:18:40.364 --> 0:18:44.415
<v Speaker 1>doing the talking, but the team behind this podcast, Joanne Chancy,

0:18:45.525 --> 0:18:49.474
<v Speaker 1>Jacqueline Chan and Christina Robert. Thank you guys. I'm Yasmine

0:18:49.834 --> 0:18:50.944
<v Speaker 1>signing off.