1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,340 Speaker 1: this is a C. N. A. Podcast. 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,219 Speaker 1: The sweet sound of freedom after being grounded. Since the 3 00:00:11,220 --> 00:00:16,140 Speaker 1: pandemic began, chinese nationals can finally start planning their overseas 4 00:00:16,140 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: trips while foreigners can look forward to an easier time 5 00:00:20,170 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: entering the country reuniting after 6 00:00:22,410 --> 00:00:26,210 Speaker 1: nearly three years. These are passengers from the first international 7 00:00:26,210 --> 00:00:30,020 Speaker 1: flight that arrived in china Shenzhen airport earlier this morning 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,750 Speaker 1: as china reopened its borders and ended its covid isolation, 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: joining the rest of the world in living with the coronavirus. 10 00:00:38,690 --> 00:00:42,780 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to CNN correspondent. I'm your host, Teresa 11 00:00:42,780 --> 00:00:46,470 Speaker 1: Tang On today's edition. We speak to two people who 12 00:00:46,470 --> 00:00:51,010 Speaker 1: lived through and reported on china's strict zero covid policy. 13 00:00:51,050 --> 00:00:54,970 Speaker 1: Olivia song and Loman Men joined me to discuss Beijing's 14 00:00:54,970 --> 00:00:58,630 Speaker 1: handling of the reopening and its impact on the world 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,370 Speaker 1: as chinese travel is set to take off. 16 00:01:04,910 --> 00:01:07,900 Speaker 1: Hi Olivia. Moonman Welcome Theresa. 17 00:01:07,910 --> 00:01:09,250 Speaker 2: Hello. 18 00:01:09,260 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: You know I'm sure at one point it felt like 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,509 Speaker 1: this day would never come the day you could go 20 00:01:14,510 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: in and out of china with ease without the need 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: for weeks long quarantines. And I remember watching both of 22 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,300 Speaker 1: your reports during the height of Covid thinking 23 00:01:23,580 --> 00:01:26,430 Speaker 1: wow our jobs as journalists can be tough. But in 24 00:01:26,430 --> 00:01:29,970 Speaker 1: china that is just a whole new level Olivia. Let's 25 00:01:29,970 --> 00:01:33,289 Speaker 1: start with you. What was it like Navigating the workday 26 00:01:33,290 --> 00:01:36,740 Speaker 1: and daily life when there were so many restrictions. Um 27 00:01:36,740 --> 00:01:39,619 Speaker 1: so how long do we have for this podcast? 28 00:01:41,110 --> 00:01:44,020 Speaker 1: Well how do we really sum up these three years 29 00:01:44,030 --> 00:01:46,090 Speaker 1: of living in china. And if we were to talk 30 00:01:46,090 --> 00:01:49,850 Speaker 1: about navigating daily life here. I think we could sum 31 00:01:49,850 --> 00:01:52,740 Speaker 1: it up by saying that it's been about really adapting 32 00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:56,500 Speaker 1: to the different stages and forms in which Zero Covid 33 00:01:56,500 --> 00:01:59,330 Speaker 1: has taken on in these last three years. And I 34 00:01:59,330 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: was just thinking about it to the start of all 35 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,380 Speaker 1: these three years ago. I remember reporting on the start 36 00:02:04,380 --> 00:02:07,510 Speaker 1: of this pandemic when we were hearing about this mysterious 37 00:02:07,510 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: virus which no one knew about hadn't even been name 38 00:02:11,050 --> 00:02:15,350 Speaker 1: named Covid 19 yet. And that shock and anxiety when 39 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: Wuhan went into that unprecedented lockdown which truly was unsinkable 40 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: and unseen ever before at the time. And that really 41 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,100 Speaker 1: set the stage for china zero covid policy. And then 42 00:02:26,110 --> 00:02:30,540 Speaker 1: here in Beijing I remember those eerily quiet streets and 43 00:02:30,540 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: that fear and nervousness as people chose to stay indoors 44 00:02:33,970 --> 00:02:36,260 Speaker 1: and as the virus then spread to the rest of 45 00:02:36,260 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 1: the world and china shut its borders. Many have been 46 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,989 Speaker 1: supportive of the Zero Covid policy 47 00:02:41,169 --> 00:02:43,230 Speaker 1: but then I think there was a bit of a 48 00:02:43,230 --> 00:02:49,430 Speaker 1: shift in 2022 when army Cron hit and it became 49 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,590 Speaker 1: evidently too hard to contain with that same zero covid 50 00:02:52,590 --> 00:02:56,180 Speaker 1: strategy given that it was more contagious. Even as the 51 00:02:56,180 --> 00:02:58,500 Speaker 1: rest of the world chose to open up the W. H. O. 52 00:02:58,500 --> 00:02:59,020 Speaker 1: Said that 53 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:03,139 Speaker 1: china zero covid policy was unsustainable. That china pressed on 54 00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:07,049 Speaker 1: it doubled down. In fact imposed more restrictions which affected 55 00:03:07,060 --> 00:03:09,990 Speaker 1: more of the population. I remember stocking up on some 56 00:03:09,990 --> 00:03:13,540 Speaker 1: food but it's been very difficult to get any groceries delivered. 57 00:03:13,540 --> 00:03:17,780 Speaker 1: The supermarket shelves were just wiped out and the malls 58 00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: and shops around my neighborhood were all closed. There was 59 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,769 Speaker 1: no dining in the subway was shut. There was no 60 00:03:23,770 --> 00:03:25,649 Speaker 1: public transport, you couldn't even get a cat 61 00:03:25,669 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: cab. I remember cycling or taking a run around just 62 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,220 Speaker 1: to get some fresh air on a number of days 63 00:03:31,220 --> 00:03:32,860 Speaker 1: because we have been working from home and it was 64 00:03:32,860 --> 00:03:36,100 Speaker 1: just so empty and so quiet and I think the 65 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:39,230 Speaker 1: biggest challenge from them has been about dealing with this 66 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,730 Speaker 1: unpredictability and uncertainty that policy and restrictions could change on 67 00:03:43,730 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: short notice. We're talking about PcR tests, you can't count 68 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,100 Speaker 1: the number of Pcr tests that we had to do. 69 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:52,100 Speaker 1: There was this mass testing every day. At one 70 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: point we quite often for big events to cover them. 71 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: We had to check into media quarantine hotels ahead of time. 72 00:03:58,450 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: News conferences were held by video link. I did share 73 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: a bit of this tinge of sadness with some other 74 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,170 Speaker 1: members of the chinese public when we couldn't access or 75 00:04:07,170 --> 00:04:11,750 Speaker 1: watch events like the winter olympics, freely Spectators last year. 76 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:14,860 Speaker 1: So so much of this job is about experiencing and 77 00:04:14,860 --> 00:04:17,690 Speaker 1: seeing things for ourselves and I felt a bit sad 78 00:04:17,690 --> 00:04:18,549 Speaker 1: that we couldn't be apart 79 00:04:18,570 --> 00:04:21,210 Speaker 1: that as freely as we wanted to be, our team 80 00:04:21,210 --> 00:04:24,460 Speaker 1: would make sure that we would always have our camera equipment, 81 00:04:24,470 --> 00:04:27,030 Speaker 1: editing equipment with us. We would shuttle it back and 82 00:04:27,029 --> 00:04:30,140 Speaker 1: forth from the office because you just never knew whether 83 00:04:30,140 --> 00:04:33,740 Speaker 1: the office building would come under lockdown confirmed or suspected 84 00:04:33,740 --> 00:04:36,659 Speaker 1: case had been found. We did our live crosses from 85 00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:38,930 Speaker 1: home at one point And on the personal front I 86 00:04:38,930 --> 00:04:41,460 Speaker 1: think with as many other foreigners living here in china 87 00:04:41,460 --> 00:04:43,969 Speaker 1: during these few years getting home to Singapore has been 88 00:04:43,970 --> 00:04:45,020 Speaker 1: a challenge 89 00:04:45,260 --> 00:04:48,570 Speaker 1: because of the lengthy quarantine and the lack of flights 90 00:04:48,570 --> 00:04:52,210 Speaker 1: into Beijing. It sounds so arduous just getting to the 91 00:04:52,210 --> 00:04:55,630 Speaker 1: most basic places. What about human men? What was it 92 00:04:55,630 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: like in shanghai? 93 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: Well I think for shanghai last year, one of the 94 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:04,029 Speaker 2: most significant moments was the two months lockdown where we 95 00:05:04,029 --> 00:05:07,130 Speaker 2: have shortage of food. A lot of people are wondering 96 00:05:07,140 --> 00:05:09,350 Speaker 2: that's good because then you would be very free. You're 97 00:05:09,350 --> 00:05:12,530 Speaker 2: just reporting from home, you can't go out and then 98 00:05:12,540 --> 00:05:14,690 Speaker 2: other people will be wondering when I'm reporting on tv. 99 00:05:14,690 --> 00:05:16,669 Speaker 2: They're like how can you know the truth when you're 100 00:05:16,670 --> 00:05:19,310 Speaker 2: at home, you're not even going out to verify these things. 101 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 2: And actually the fact is that this period is two 102 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,300 Speaker 2: months when I'm stuck at home turned out to be 103 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:27,870 Speaker 2: one of the busiest periods in the entire year 104 00:05:28,060 --> 00:05:31,180 Speaker 2: because we asked for permission from the Foreign Ministry to 105 00:05:31,180 --> 00:05:34,029 Speaker 2: go out to report but they said no but at 106 00:05:34,029 --> 00:05:37,700 Speaker 2: this time there were so many unbelievable stories that came 107 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:41,679 Speaker 2: out on social media. People just talking about not just 108 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,690 Speaker 2: not being able to get food but people are dying 109 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: not from covid but from delayed treatment because they couldn't 110 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,049 Speaker 2: get to the hospital because there wasn't any public trans. 111 00:05:50,365 --> 00:05:53,025 Speaker 2: They literally couldn't find a way to get there and 112 00:05:53,025 --> 00:05:55,065 Speaker 2: they couldn't leave their house because they didn't get an 113 00:05:55,075 --> 00:05:58,075 Speaker 2: exit permit in time or they didn't have the pcr 114 00:05:58,075 --> 00:06:01,085 Speaker 2: test to enter hospitals and were denied treatment. And then 115 00:06:01,085 --> 00:06:04,164 Speaker 2: there were like elderly people who were mistakenly sent to 116 00:06:04,165 --> 00:06:07,105 Speaker 2: the funeral parlor and they were still alive and there 117 00:06:07,105 --> 00:06:10,075 Speaker 2: were deaths and nursing homes that went unreported. There were 118 00:06:10,085 --> 00:06:12,090 Speaker 2: just all these things that just 119 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,109 Speaker 2: really surreal and unbelievable sometimes and the moment they pop 120 00:06:17,110 --> 00:06:20,029 Speaker 2: up on social media they would be scrubbed within hours 121 00:06:20,029 --> 00:06:23,049 Speaker 2: by the authorities. So I was really busy just trying 122 00:06:23,050 --> 00:06:26,609 Speaker 2: to screenshot everything and save these videos and take down 123 00:06:26,610 --> 00:06:29,910 Speaker 2: who actually posted them. And I would try to track 124 00:06:29,910 --> 00:06:33,930 Speaker 2: them down later on to hopefully find at least several 125 00:06:33,940 --> 00:06:37,020 Speaker 2: eyewitnesses or people around the area who could verify 126 00:06:37,043 --> 00:06:40,263 Speaker 2: and corroborate these stories. So it was really busy as 127 00:06:40,263 --> 00:06:43,863 Speaker 2: I was also navigating my own situation with food shortage 128 00:06:43,863 --> 00:06:45,123 Speaker 2: and the lockdown as well. 129 00:06:45,163 --> 00:06:49,303 Speaker 1: And Olivia you mentioned traveling domestically earlier that was a 130 00:06:49,303 --> 00:06:53,313 Speaker 1: challenge to given I remember you telling us about notifications 131 00:06:53,313 --> 00:06:55,643 Speaker 1: that you get on your phone that would pretty much 132 00:06:55,642 --> 00:06:58,573 Speaker 1: render you hostage wherever you were. Yeah. So I think 133 00:06:58,573 --> 00:07:01,702 Speaker 1: that also had to do with living in Beijing 134 00:07:01,726 --> 00:07:06,026 Speaker 1: which post its own challenges particularly as the capital, especially 135 00:07:06,026 --> 00:07:09,666 Speaker 1: last year, which was a politically sensitive year with a 136 00:07:09,666 --> 00:07:13,816 Speaker 1: big twice a decade. Communist Party congress. So Beijing had 137 00:07:13,826 --> 00:07:17,386 Speaker 1: in the whole country some of the strictest covid policy. 138 00:07:17,386 --> 00:07:19,586 Speaker 1: So for example, you know, to cover some of the 139 00:07:19,586 --> 00:07:23,086 Speaker 1: big events here, it required us to have not left 140 00:07:23,096 --> 00:07:26,410 Speaker 1: Beijing in the last 21 days at one point. 141 00:07:26,590 --> 00:07:29,930 Speaker 1: And then another big thing were these health code apps 142 00:07:29,940 --> 00:07:32,970 Speaker 1: on our phones, which were a key part of china 143 00:07:32,970 --> 00:07:36,530 Speaker 1: zero covid policy. Each province had their own shanghai had 144 00:07:36,530 --> 00:07:38,940 Speaker 1: its own Beijing had its own and we had to 145 00:07:38,940 --> 00:07:42,300 Speaker 1: scan our phones to check into places and this data 146 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:46,460 Speaker 1: collected would determine whether or not we had been to 147 00:07:46,460 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: any risky so called risky places. And if the code 148 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:50,780 Speaker 1: was green, 149 00:07:50,796 --> 00:07:52,566 Speaker 1: it was normal and you were in good health, you 150 00:07:52,566 --> 00:07:54,786 Speaker 1: had no risk and you can move about freely. But 151 00:07:54,796 --> 00:07:58,196 Speaker 1: if not at one point, Beijing imposed rules which would 152 00:07:58,206 --> 00:08:01,466 Speaker 1: trigger a dreaded pop up window, which meant that the 153 00:08:01,466 --> 00:08:05,296 Speaker 1: big data found you were at risk of possibly being 154 00:08:05,296 --> 00:08:08,026 Speaker 1: infected and you wouldn't be able to if you have 155 00:08:08,026 --> 00:08:12,016 Speaker 1: this abnormal health code visit any public spaces. And it 156 00:08:12,016 --> 00:08:14,990 Speaker 1: really caused a lot of inconveniences for many people. 157 00:08:15,002 --> 00:08:17,322 Speaker 1: There were a few reasons why you would receive this 158 00:08:17,322 --> 00:08:19,772 Speaker 1: pop up. I received quite a few of those and 159 00:08:19,772 --> 00:08:23,102 Speaker 1: one of them known as pop up notification number one 160 00:08:23,112 --> 00:08:25,992 Speaker 1: said and I still have the screenshot here says you 161 00:08:25,992 --> 00:08:29,192 Speaker 1: have a travel history to a county where one or 162 00:08:29,192 --> 00:08:32,512 Speaker 1: more local covid 19 cases have been confirmed within the 163 00:08:32,511 --> 00:08:37,112 Speaker 1: past seven days. Beijing's covid containment policy requires you to 164 00:08:37,112 --> 00:08:39,190 Speaker 1: postpone your trip to Beijing. And 165 00:08:39,208 --> 00:08:42,388 Speaker 1: if you are in Beijing please report yourself to the 166 00:08:42,388 --> 00:08:46,488 Speaker 1: neighborhood committee and follow the required containment policy when I 167 00:08:46,488 --> 00:08:51,638 Speaker 1: checked it had locked my flight and train booking app. 168 00:08:51,648 --> 00:08:55,348 Speaker 1: And so the notification then said that due to pandemic 169 00:08:55,348 --> 00:09:01,218 Speaker 1: prevention control requirements you temporarily cannot book a flight into Beijing. 170 00:09:01,218 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: And so we have to be very strategic and 171 00:09:03,414 --> 00:09:07,504 Speaker 1: Efficient to minimize the risk of any complications. Every time 172 00:09:07,514 --> 00:09:11,294 Speaker 1: we chose to leave Beijing because getting back could be 173 00:09:11,304 --> 00:09:13,654 Speaker 1: a real challenge. And you just imagine for those people 174 00:09:13,654 --> 00:09:16,614 Speaker 1: who are used to shuttling around the country for work 175 00:09:16,614 --> 00:09:19,353 Speaker 1: a short 2-3 day trip could land you in 14 176 00:09:19,354 --> 00:09:22,344 Speaker 1: days of home quarantine. And so in Beijing especially with 177 00:09:22,344 --> 00:09:24,904 Speaker 1: so many people just choosing to stay put. It's so 178 00:09:24,904 --> 00:09:27,620 Speaker 1: hard to believe that that was your reality Olivia. 179 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,700 Speaker 1: While many people are definitely looking forward to china's reopening, 180 00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:34,940 Speaker 1: Some are watching the country's move with a mixture of 181 00:09:34,950 --> 00:09:38,650 Speaker 1: dread and trepidation. Men men are we expecting to see 182 00:09:38,650 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: a flood of chinese travelers around the world anytime soon. 183 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: Well you know today I have a friend who was 184 00:09:45,250 --> 00:09:47,650 Speaker 2: at the Pudong international airport and you would think that 185 00:09:47,650 --> 00:09:50,030 Speaker 2: it would be very crowded of people just trying to 186 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: get out and travel for the first time, but he 187 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,350 Speaker 2: said it was still very empty and there was just 188 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,569 Speaker 2: one international outbound flight going to Frankfurt. I think that 189 00:09:58,570 --> 00:10:01,500 Speaker 2: really symbolizes the travel industry right now. When I go 190 00:10:01,500 --> 00:10:03,349 Speaker 2: out to speak to people, there 191 00:10:03,366 --> 00:10:06,026 Speaker 2: is definitely this pent up demand. A lot of people 192 00:10:06,026 --> 00:10:09,856 Speaker 2: very excited to make a trip overseas, but a lot 193 00:10:09,856 --> 00:10:12,396 Speaker 2: of them tell me that they cannot afford it right 194 00:10:12,396 --> 00:10:16,106 Speaker 2: now because tickets are so expensive and a lot of 195 00:10:16,106 --> 00:10:19,675 Speaker 2: travel agencies are also charging very high prices to process 196 00:10:19,686 --> 00:10:23,476 Speaker 2: their visas and that's because right now international flights is 197 00:10:23,476 --> 00:10:23,905 Speaker 2: still 198 00:10:24,011 --> 00:10:27,932 Speaker 2: Around 8% of pre pandemic levels. So a lot of 199 00:10:27,932 --> 00:10:30,132 Speaker 2: people tell me that they are planning to wait a 200 00:10:30,131 --> 00:10:32,542 Speaker 2: few more months for the travel industry to catch up 201 00:10:32,542 --> 00:10:36,002 Speaker 2: with that demand and some people are still worried about 202 00:10:36,011 --> 00:10:40,242 Speaker 2: getting COVID overseas or getting exposed to new variants overseas 203 00:10:40,252 --> 00:10:42,742 Speaker 2: so they want to wait for a while for things 204 00:10:42,742 --> 00:10:44,541 Speaker 2: to stabilize before taking that. 205 00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:48,990 Speaker 1: Okay, so fast forward tell me now, where were you Olivia? 206 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,910 Speaker 1: What went through your head when you heard that all 207 00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:54,370 Speaker 1: of a sudden the government was going to make a U. 208 00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:58,510 Speaker 1: Turn going from its suffocating grip to completely opening up. 209 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,550 Speaker 1: I still can't remember that moment quite vividly. In fact, 210 00:11:01,550 --> 00:11:03,780 Speaker 1: I think there were two key moments first we're talking 211 00:11:03,780 --> 00:11:06,220 Speaker 1: about the relaxation of measures on the 212 00:11:06,420 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: domestic front rather abruptly. In early december. I had been 213 00:11:10,850 --> 00:11:13,809 Speaker 1: in Singapore. My first trip back home in a while 214 00:11:13,809 --> 00:11:17,020 Speaker 1: and for work and for a break and prior to 215 00:11:17,020 --> 00:11:20,570 Speaker 1: this announcement I was hearing of more and more friends 216 00:11:20,570 --> 00:11:24,860 Speaker 1: whose buildings here in Beijing that the apartment complexes were 217 00:11:24,860 --> 00:11:27,660 Speaker 1: being put under lockdown because the virus was 218 00:11:27,809 --> 00:11:31,329 Speaker 1: reading and there were confirmed cases detected in their neighborhood. 219 00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:34,699 Speaker 1: But what was new I felt was also more and more. 220 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:38,090 Speaker 1: We also heard of residents banding together to voice their 221 00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: unhappiness to neighborhood committees against potential lockdowns. And there were 222 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,719 Speaker 1: these lists circulating on Wechat advising people on how to 223 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: talk to officials effectively, 224 00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:51,290 Speaker 1: this to me was a sign that things were different 225 00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:54,090 Speaker 1: this time because in the last few years if we 226 00:11:54,100 --> 00:11:56,310 Speaker 1: spoke to many people, they would say that they were 227 00:11:56,309 --> 00:11:59,750 Speaker 1: supportive of china zero Covid policy. But now with the 228 00:11:59,750 --> 00:12:03,770 Speaker 1: lockdowns increasingly more and more people affected it was disruptive. 229 00:12:03,780 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: They weren't able to go out to work. There seemed 230 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: to be no end inside and more were open 231 00:12:09,025 --> 00:12:12,915 Speaker 1: Expressing their unhappiness and this also as news broke of 232 00:12:12,915 --> 00:12:17,425 Speaker 1: how a fire in Xinjiang killed 10 people who were 233 00:12:17,434 --> 00:12:21,095 Speaker 1: in lockdown and people were angered and so it was 234 00:12:21,095 --> 00:12:26,564 Speaker 1: like this volcano waiting to erupt. But many were surprised 235 00:12:26,565 --> 00:12:28,699 Speaker 1: when this actually erupted into 236 00:12:28,820 --> 00:12:34,010 Speaker 1: actual protests in many cities, which is risky because of 237 00:12:34,010 --> 00:12:37,330 Speaker 1: the serious repercussions that they have in a place like 238 00:12:37,330 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: china and we do hear of the fallout for people 239 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,829 Speaker 1: who took part. So many people have asked was the 240 00:12:44,830 --> 00:12:49,030 Speaker 1: U turn and zero covid because of the protests officially. 241 00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: That is not the narrative that the authorities are going 242 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,620 Speaker 1: to go with. But we know that the U 10 243 00:12:54,620 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: came shortly after 244 00:12:56,095 --> 00:13:00,655 Speaker 1: those protests came, there was like one moment friends were 245 00:13:00,655 --> 00:13:03,725 Speaker 1: in lockdown, confined in their homes and then the next 246 00:13:03,725 --> 00:13:07,755 Speaker 1: moment everything was gone. Testing booths that had been littered 247 00:13:07,755 --> 00:13:11,694 Speaker 1: the city were all dismantled. I was ironically serving the 248 00:13:11,695 --> 00:13:15,065 Speaker 1: last night of my eight days of quarantine in a 249 00:13:15,065 --> 00:13:19,645 Speaker 1: hotel in chongqing after returning from Singapore. When this news broke, 250 00:13:19,655 --> 00:13:22,735 Speaker 1: that was late on december 26th. I remember after 11 251 00:13:22,735 --> 00:13:23,365 Speaker 1: PM 252 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,460 Speaker 1: and then I had to quickly get ready to go 253 00:13:25,460 --> 00:13:28,250 Speaker 1: live to talk about it at midnight. It was big 254 00:13:28,250 --> 00:13:31,130 Speaker 1: news and there had been rumors that china would eventually 255 00:13:31,130 --> 00:13:34,210 Speaker 1: scrap these quarantine requirements. But it was also a lot 256 00:13:34,210 --> 00:13:38,050 Speaker 1: sooner that many people had expected. As I left the 257 00:13:38,050 --> 00:13:39,790 Speaker 1: quarantine hotel that day 258 00:13:39,945 --> 00:13:44,085 Speaker 1: next day, in fact it was surreal. This very sterile environment, 259 00:13:44,085 --> 00:13:47,545 Speaker 1: the smell of disinfectant and sanitizing the lift and the 260 00:13:47,545 --> 00:13:51,015 Speaker 1: corridors and as I was leaving, I was thinking to myself, 261 00:13:51,025 --> 00:13:54,245 Speaker 1: this really felt like the end of another chapter and 262 00:13:54,255 --> 00:13:56,325 Speaker 1: hopefully the last quarantine 263 00:13:56,650 --> 00:14:00,030 Speaker 1: that I and everyone here will have to experience in 264 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,429 Speaker 1: a very, very long while. Olivia used the word baffling men. Men, 265 00:14:04,429 --> 00:14:07,329 Speaker 1: what word would you describe when you think back to 266 00:14:07,340 --> 00:14:10,790 Speaker 1: the moment you realized, hey things are really changing. I 267 00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: think for me it was really surreal and unbelievable mainly 268 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,069 Speaker 2: because how quickly things flipped 269 00:14:18,095 --> 00:14:22,525 Speaker 2: from 100 to 0. It's like whiplash because before the 270 00:14:22,525 --> 00:14:25,425 Speaker 2: announcement you could get covid and be dragged into a 271 00:14:25,425 --> 00:14:28,795 Speaker 2: quarantine center and you would cause all your neighbors in 272 00:14:28,795 --> 00:14:32,565 Speaker 2: your entire building to go into hard lockdown. And suddenly 273 00:14:32,565 --> 00:14:35,215 Speaker 2: we went from that to let it rip through the 274 00:14:35,215 --> 00:14:38,535 Speaker 2: community and end the quarantine, stop the health codes and 275 00:14:38,535 --> 00:14:39,540 Speaker 2: the mass testing. 276 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,630 Speaker 2: It kind of reminds me of the shanghai lockdown as well. 277 00:14:42,630 --> 00:14:44,900 Speaker 2: It was the same thing the way things were announced 278 00:14:44,910 --> 00:14:47,850 Speaker 2: the announcement for the lockdown came around something like eight p.m. 279 00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 2: At night and the lockdown began a few hours later 280 00:14:50,610 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: at midnight so people were scrambling to get food and 281 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,870 Speaker 2: the same thing two months later when the lockdown ended. 282 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,380 Speaker 2: I think an announcement came maybe a few days before 283 00:14:58,390 --> 00:15:02,220 Speaker 2: and then everything just went from 0 to 100 like boom. 284 00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:05,650 Speaker 2: So it was just very shocking how quickly things move 285 00:15:05,650 --> 00:15:06,230 Speaker 2: here 286 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: amendment this newfound freedom for some it was very jarring, 287 00:15:10,570 --> 00:15:14,340 Speaker 1: devastating even and I'm talking about those who felt sick 288 00:15:14,350 --> 00:15:17,370 Speaker 1: as soon as the government let the virus proliferate in 289 00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:19,109 Speaker 1: one of your reports. Men, Men, you were in a 290 00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:22,890 Speaker 1: hospital in shanghai and I remember there was one shot 291 00:15:22,890 --> 00:15:23,780 Speaker 1: in your story. 292 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,869 Speaker 1: The camera, it just pans down the hallways absolutely filled 293 00:15:27,870 --> 00:15:31,170 Speaker 1: to capacity. Tell us how did you get access to 294 00:15:31,170 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: that hospital and what were people inside saying. 295 00:15:34,190 --> 00:15:37,330 Speaker 2: Yeah it was quite a heartbreaking moment for me to 296 00:15:37,340 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: go in that hospital. And it's really a different world 297 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 2: in there because outside you're seeing these crowds of people 298 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 2: back on the streets some of them without a mask. 299 00:15:47,010 --> 00:15:50,650 Speaker 2: Kind of celebrating this return to normalcy but inside those 300 00:15:50,660 --> 00:15:55,250 Speaker 2: hospital doors in an emergency ward every inch of available flow. 301 00:15:55,275 --> 00:15:58,265 Speaker 2: The space was taken up with beds just in the 302 00:15:58,265 --> 00:16:01,625 Speaker 2: corridors in front of the payment counters everywhere. And I 303 00:16:01,625 --> 00:16:03,425 Speaker 2: heard a doctor telling a patient that they have no 304 00:16:03,425 --> 00:16:06,705 Speaker 2: beds available and some patients tell me they were asked 305 00:16:06,705 --> 00:16:09,055 Speaker 2: to return every single day to get an I. V. 306 00:16:09,055 --> 00:16:12,535 Speaker 2: Drip because they can't stay overnight there's no space for them. 307 00:16:12,535 --> 00:16:14,195 Speaker 2: And so they have been going to the hospital every 308 00:16:14,195 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: day for about nine days when I spoke to them. 309 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,870 Speaker 2: So there was absolutely no privacy in the hospital. I 310 00:16:19,870 --> 00:16:21,710 Speaker 2: could walk around and it's a situation where I could 311 00:16:21,710 --> 00:16:25,790 Speaker 2: see elderly patients getting their diapers change everything out in 312 00:16:25,790 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: the open. About. The surprising thing was that when I 313 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,910 Speaker 2: speak to some of these people, their family members they 314 00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:34,870 Speaker 2: tell me that it is better to get infected. Now 315 00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:39,490 Speaker 2: with COVID-19 at least the accessibility issue is solved. Compared 316 00:16:39,490 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 2: to doing the lockdown. They don't have to worry about 317 00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:44,410 Speaker 2: getting a pcr test before going to the hospital. They 318 00:16:44,410 --> 00:16:46,540 Speaker 2: don't have to worry about being unable to leave their 319 00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:49,870 Speaker 2: homes or being unable to find public transport to get there. 320 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,300 Speaker 2: Most people just feel helpless and see it as inevitable. 321 00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 2: That china eventually has to loosen these controls and they 322 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,370 Speaker 2: seem to be quite supportive of the loosening of restrictions 323 00:16:59,370 --> 00:17:01,950 Speaker 2: despite the heightened risk of getting covid. 324 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,350 Speaker 1: But for those who are blessed with good health right now, 325 00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: heading home is top of mind 326 00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:10,090 Speaker 1: given we are on the cusp of chinese new year 327 00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: and it's going to be the first time in years. 328 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:17,430 Speaker 1: People can finally reunite with their families unhindered by draconian curbs. 329 00:17:17,740 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: Coming up, we talk about what the end of zero 330 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,460 Speaker 1: Covid means for the 2.1 billion trips that are expected 331 00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:26,129 Speaker 1: to be made. Stay with us. 332 00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:33,650 Speaker 1: Hi, my name is julie you and I'm the host 333 00:17:33,660 --> 00:17:37,330 Speaker 1: of the climate conversations. Each week I speak to guests 334 00:17:37,340 --> 00:17:39,950 Speaker 1: who give us tips on how we can protect the 335 00:17:39,950 --> 00:17:43,220 Speaker 1: earth every once in a while. We also have interesting 336 00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:47,780 Speaker 1: stories like how Singapore's first Tesla owner prompted billionaire 337 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,590 Speaker 1: Elon musk to reach out to Prime Minister Lee hsien 338 00:17:50,590 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: loong or chef who makes the juiciest burgers from only 339 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,820 Speaker 1: plant based ingredients for more stories like these. Look for 340 00:17:58,820 --> 00:18:02,020 Speaker 1: the climate conversations under C. N. A. And me listen 341 00:18:02,030 --> 00:18:04,609 Speaker 1: apps or wherever you get your podcasts. 342 00:18:10,420 --> 00:18:14,030 Speaker 1: Two years ago I came back after the post covid period. 343 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,050 Speaker 1: I had to quarantine Guangzhou at the point of time 344 00:18:17,050 --> 00:18:19,820 Speaker 1: and there weren't even any direct flights here dissension. But 345 00:18:19,820 --> 00:18:22,180 Speaker 1: I'm I'm working here. I'm living and working here. 346 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: So yeah. And that was two weeks of quarantine. I've 347 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,430 Speaker 1: heard that clip Olivia more than once and every time 348 00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: it makes me smile hooray! Right, she's so excited Olivia. 349 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: You were in Shenzhen when the first passengers arrived after 350 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,390 Speaker 1: the opening. Tell us about the other reactions from some 351 00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:42,290 Speaker 1: of the first inbound travelers. 352 00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, Teresa, when I was interviewing that lady that we 353 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,770 Speaker 1: heard from that was actually 35 year old J she's 354 00:18:48,770 --> 00:18:52,490 Speaker 1: a singaporean teacher who's working in Shenzhen and her energy 355 00:18:52,490 --> 00:18:55,310 Speaker 1: was just so infectious even though it was, it was late, 356 00:18:55,310 --> 00:18:57,820 Speaker 1: it was past midnight. Um I too had a huge 357 00:18:57,820 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: smile on my face when I was interviewing her behind 358 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 1: my mask. Of course, I think the significance of the 359 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,290 Speaker 1: day dawned on me. I remember standing at the international 360 00:19:06,290 --> 00:19:06,859 Speaker 1: arrival 361 00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:09,990 Speaker 1: at the Shenzhen airport waiting for the passengers of the 362 00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:14,659 Speaker 1: flight to stream out and hit me that these scenes 363 00:19:14,670 --> 00:19:17,850 Speaker 1: of these people eagerly awaiting the arrival of their loved 364 00:19:17,850 --> 00:19:20,650 Speaker 1: ones ready to you know, give them big hugs straight 365 00:19:20,650 --> 00:19:24,470 Speaker 1: off the plane, some holding flowers and welcome signs some 366 00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:26,970 Speaker 1: of young Children and even a dog. I saw in 367 00:19:26,970 --> 00:19:29,580 Speaker 1: the bag there was also a husband I spoke to 368 00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:31,050 Speaker 1: who was waiting for his wife to 369 00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:34,310 Speaker 1: arrived. They had just got married early last year and 370 00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: they haven't seen each other for more than half a 371 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,940 Speaker 1: year And since then they discovered they were expecting a baby. 372 00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:44,030 Speaker 1: So it was really heartwarming. We're also talking about the 373 00:19:44,030 --> 00:19:47,250 Speaker 1: partial reopening of borders between Hong kong and the mainland 374 00:19:47,250 --> 00:19:50,290 Speaker 1: and I was at one of the reopened border checkpoints 375 00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:53,070 Speaker 1: in Shenzhen and there was a mom with her two 376 00:19:53,070 --> 00:19:55,230 Speaker 1: young Children heading to Hong kong and 377 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: she couldn't help but get emotional and tear. And she 378 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: talked about her excitement and being able to be reunited 379 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,550 Speaker 1: with her husband and eldest daughter who live in Hong kong. 380 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,630 Speaker 1: I have to say the airport arrival hall is one 381 00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:11,010 Speaker 1: of my favorite places in the world. Just seeing people 382 00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:14,230 Speaker 1: seeing their loved ones again. But not everyone is so 383 00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:17,889 Speaker 1: excited about traveling right? I know for me I was 384 00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,540 Speaker 1: really hesitant to hop on a plane so quickly. 385 00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:24,030 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. You know, even though the World Tourism 386 00:20:24,030 --> 00:20:28,010 Speaker 1: Organization estimates that the reopening could bring more than $200 387 00:20:28,010 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: billion dollars back to international tourism, it may take some 388 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,740 Speaker 1: time possibly according to some industry players we've spoken to 389 00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:38,770 Speaker 1: things could possibly only get back to business as usual 390 00:20:38,770 --> 00:20:41,060 Speaker 1: in the middle of this year. So, and the sense 391 00:20:41,060 --> 00:20:43,369 Speaker 1: that we get from people that we have been speaking 392 00:20:43,369 --> 00:20:45,660 Speaker 1: to is yes, they are happy that they get the 393 00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:47,330 Speaker 1: option to travel overseas 394 00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:50,770 Speaker 1: Once again. But there are still concerns. There is the 395 00:20:50,770 --> 00:20:55,909 Speaker 1: cost and logistics of travel that mentioned earlier, international flights 396 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,990 Speaker 1: in and out of China only at 8% of pre 397 00:20:58,990 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: pandemic levels. And speaking to some aviation experts, they say 398 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: that it will take some time for allies to ramp 399 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,780 Speaker 1: up capacity. There's a whole process to go through with 400 00:21:08,780 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: the airport authorities, the paperwork with manpower, the tourism in 401 00:21:13,330 --> 00:21:17,070 Speaker 1: industry also needs to ready itself to receive an influx 402 00:21:17,070 --> 00:21:20,790 Speaker 1: of chinese visitors. Another factor also that are causing some 403 00:21:20,790 --> 00:21:24,750 Speaker 1: chinese to hesitate with overseas travel are the restrictions that 404 00:21:24,750 --> 00:21:27,550 Speaker 1: have been imposed by some of the countries like we 405 00:21:27,550 --> 00:21:30,260 Speaker 1: have recently seen china hit back at Japan and south 406 00:21:30,260 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: Korea who have imposed these testing requirements on chinese travelers. 407 00:21:34,450 --> 00:21:37,750 Speaker 1: China stopping the issuance of short term visas and suspending 408 00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:39,310 Speaker 1: its transit free policy. 409 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,220 Speaker 1: There's also concern that among the chinese that this may 410 00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:46,109 Speaker 1: bring some inconveniences if they were to head to these countries. 411 00:21:46,109 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: So they say that they may want to wait and 412 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,689 Speaker 1: then there's also still the pandemic concern the virus here 413 00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:55,449 Speaker 1: in china is still sweeping the country. People are concerned 414 00:21:55,450 --> 00:21:59,380 Speaker 1: about getting sick again and they want to wait things out, 415 00:21:59,390 --> 00:22:03,490 Speaker 1: timing is everything as they say and the opening coming 416 00:22:03,490 --> 00:22:05,300 Speaker 1: just ahead of the chinese new year. 417 00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:09,050 Speaker 1: The vice minister of transport saying that this is the 418 00:22:09,050 --> 00:22:13,450 Speaker 1: most challenging situation for China in recent years and estimates 419 00:22:13,450 --> 00:22:16,470 Speaker 1: are that the total number of passenger trips will hit 420 00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:18,470 Speaker 1: about 2.1 billion 421 00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:21,490 Speaker 1: men. Men tell us what are officials doing to ensure 422 00:22:21,490 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: that infections are under control while people travel during this time? 423 00:22:25,369 --> 00:22:28,169 Speaker 2: Well, we know that this travel peak is going to 424 00:22:28,170 --> 00:22:32,030 Speaker 2: coincide with the peak infection rates. And the Ministry of 425 00:22:32,030 --> 00:22:34,780 Speaker 2: Transport has said that this could lead to an increase 426 00:22:34,780 --> 00:22:39,020 Speaker 2: in demand for free transportation to carry necessities like food 427 00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:42,790 Speaker 2: and medical supplies. And there could be a logistics crunch 428 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:43,109 Speaker 2: coming 429 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,310 Speaker 2: from widespread infection among the frontline transportation workers. And this 430 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 2: is going to hit the rural areas hard because they 431 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,209 Speaker 2: have weaker distribution capabilities and also less advanced medical infrastructure 432 00:22:54,210 --> 00:22:56,629 Speaker 2: over there. So the Ministry of Transport said that they 433 00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:59,530 Speaker 2: are doing everything they can to prepare for the Spring 434 00:22:59,530 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 2: festival travel rush, ensuring the health of employees, proper ventilation 435 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,540 Speaker 2: and the trains and maintenance of these transportation networks. 436 00:23:07,550 --> 00:23:09,379 Speaker 2: So they said that this is going to be the 437 00:23:09,380 --> 00:23:13,260 Speaker 2: most challenging and uncertain times for china in recent 438 00:23:13,260 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: years. 2.1 billion trips. That is just incredible. Before we go. 439 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,790 Speaker 1: I want your final thoughts on living through such an 440 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,530 Speaker 1: extraordinary time in china for both of you. How do 441 00:23:25,530 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: you think zero Covid and its fallout have changed people's 442 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,970 Speaker 1: perspective of president. See Olivia. 443 00:23:32,290 --> 00:23:35,530 Speaker 1: I think there are two big questions here. One how 444 00:23:35,530 --> 00:23:40,170 Speaker 1: the people judge how the handling of this exit from 445 00:23:40,180 --> 00:23:42,550 Speaker 1: zero Covid this abrupt u turn 446 00:23:42,770 --> 00:23:44,429 Speaker 1: in the last few years, it's been so rare to 447 00:23:44,430 --> 00:23:47,970 Speaker 1: hear of anyone getting covid until we started to approach 448 00:23:47,970 --> 00:23:51,500 Speaker 1: the end of this zero Covid policy and but this 449 00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:54,530 Speaker 1: time around, you know, we were very quickly getting messages 450 00:23:54,530 --> 00:23:57,500 Speaker 1: of people saying that, oh yeah, I'm down I've tested positive. 451 00:23:57,500 --> 00:24:01,500 Speaker 1: The joke is that now you don't ask people or 452 00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: have you eaten? Opening question now is have you tested 453 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,130 Speaker 1: positive already? 454 00:24:07,270 --> 00:24:10,649 Speaker 1: But jokes aside, people have been speaking to just casually, 455 00:24:10,650 --> 00:24:14,750 Speaker 1: not just in Beijing but in chongqing and Shenzhen they 456 00:24:14,750 --> 00:24:17,740 Speaker 1: told about knowing those who have died by sticking to 457 00:24:17,740 --> 00:24:21,410 Speaker 1: a zero Covid policy for this long one might argue 458 00:24:21,410 --> 00:24:25,190 Speaker 1: that while people are unhappy with the stress that has 459 00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:27,180 Speaker 1: been put on the health care system and what this 460 00:24:27,180 --> 00:24:30,900 Speaker 1: means for their lives, there's a sense also of relief 461 00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:34,870 Speaker 1: that people now see an exit from the pandemic and 462 00:24:34,869 --> 00:24:35,620 Speaker 1: they want to get 463 00:24:35,650 --> 00:24:38,780 Speaker 1: on with life, which has really not been easy in 464 00:24:38,780 --> 00:24:42,010 Speaker 1: the last three years. And that leads to the second question, 465 00:24:42,010 --> 00:24:46,030 Speaker 1: what's the longer term impact of this zero covid era? 466 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,300 Speaker 1: Don't forget that there are many other challenges that China 467 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:53,450 Speaker 1: and presidency have been dealing with prior to this pandemic. Currently, 468 00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:57,060 Speaker 1: we're also talking about, for example, struggling real estate sector, 469 00:24:57,070 --> 00:25:01,300 Speaker 1: unemployment is still a big and growing concern. 470 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: According to economists, I've been speaking to the global economic 471 00:25:05,450 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: outlook does not look good. How is china going to 472 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,590 Speaker 1: handle that? And how is President C and his leadership 473 00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:14,010 Speaker 1: team going to deal with this? And that's all set 474 00:25:14,010 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: to play out now in this next post zero covid 475 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,090 Speaker 1: chapter of China's story as it has chosen to now 476 00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:21,430 Speaker 1: live with the virus. 477 00:25:22,410 --> 00:25:24,959 Speaker 2: First of all it shows that in some ways the 478 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: government is actually responsive to change the U. Turn in. 479 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,939 Speaker 2: The policy shows that presidency is able and willing to 480 00:25:30,940 --> 00:25:34,300 Speaker 2: walk back old policies that no longer makes sense. But 481 00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:37,390 Speaker 2: some locals may also walk away thinking that you know 482 00:25:37,390 --> 00:25:41,060 Speaker 2: what those protests worked. We got our voices heard and 483 00:25:41,060 --> 00:25:44,290 Speaker 2: the government is adjusting its policy accordingly. But also those 484 00:25:44,290 --> 00:25:45,310 Speaker 2: protests are 485 00:25:45,450 --> 00:25:48,390 Speaker 2: unprecedented and it does in some ways break up that 486 00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:53,390 Speaker 2: facade of presidencies unchallenged authority especially so soon after he 487 00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:58,100 Speaker 2: had just confirmed an unprecedented third term in office at 488 00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 2: the 20th party congress in october Currently the high unofficial 489 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 2: death toll from the current wave of infection is also 490 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,670 Speaker 2: not reflecting very well on his administration. The W. H. O. 491 00:26:07,670 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 2: Is accusing 492 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 2: China under representing the severity of this outbreak because china 493 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,660 Speaker 2: doesn't include people dying from other underlying diseases in its 494 00:26:15,660 --> 00:26:18,219 Speaker 2: covid death toll. And it does look as if the 495 00:26:18,220 --> 00:26:21,730 Speaker 2: government rushed into a very ill prepared strategy without doing 496 00:26:21,730 --> 00:26:25,450 Speaker 2: enough to boost its health care capacity and vaccination rates 497 00:26:25,450 --> 00:26:28,389 Speaker 2: among the elderly in the last three years before hurriedly 498 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,090 Speaker 2: opening up in the winter when the virus is known 499 00:26:31,090 --> 00:26:31,510 Speaker 2: to spread 500 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,220 Speaker 2: quickly instead of waiting a few more months to open 501 00:26:34,220 --> 00:26:35,109 Speaker 2: up in the spring. 502 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: Clearly one chapter has closed for china but a very 503 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,179 Speaker 1: new one is emerging as well. Olivia. Min min so 504 00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:44,780 Speaker 1: happy to speak to you both and I'm really glad 505 00:26:44,780 --> 00:26:46,980 Speaker 1: that you can finally return to some normalcy. 506 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,060 Speaker 2: So glad to speak to you, 507 00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:51,750 Speaker 1: Teresa, good to speak to you. And yeah, it's now 508 00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: adjusting to a whole new, different china. 509 00:26:55,369 --> 00:26:59,330 Speaker 1: The tv version of Sienna correspondent airs on Sienna every 510 00:26:59,330 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. Follow this podcast version that takes 511 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,659 Speaker 1: you behind the scenes with our correspondence so you'll know 512 00:27:06,660 --> 00:27:09,510 Speaker 1: when a new episode is out. The team behind this 513 00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:13,580 Speaker 1: episode is Jacqueline chan clara yong Christina robert and me 514 00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:14,420 Speaker 1: Teresa tang.