1 00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:02,460 S1: Hi, Faisal, it's a zero and is to me, 2 00:00:02,550 --> 00:00:03,830 S2: welcome back to Clematis 3 00:00:04,470 --> 00:00:08,780 S1: Park. Today we have a special guest on our show, 4 00:00:08,789 --> 00:00:12,570 S1: Welcome Young. So, guys, 5 00:00:14,190 --> 00:00:14,610 S3: wow, 6 00:00:17,890 --> 00:00:19,470 S2: look at what they're wearing, guys, look at what 7 00:00:19,470 --> 00:00:22,529 S1: we're. Oh my god. Let me get this piece of piece. 8 00:00:22,540 --> 00:00:25,690 S1: Only those who've broken it. 9 00:00:25,710 --> 00:00:26,440 S3: You look great. 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,030 S2: The question for you? Yes. Young Roger, what happens when 11 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:30,540 S2: you get old? 12 00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:34,830 S3: I put this question one too many times. I don't know, actually. 13 00:00:35,100 --> 00:00:36,900 S3: Maybe you might just change it to Roger. 14 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,140 S2: I have a solution, though. I was young at 15 00:00:39,330 --> 00:00:41,400 S1: Roger, Young at heart, Roger. 16 00:00:42,220 --> 00:00:45,479 S3: He's really like that. Yeah, I mean, like, they're young 17 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:46,050 S3: and hot, right? 18 00:00:46,110 --> 00:00:47,670 S2: I like it. So today is going to be a 19 00:00:47,670 --> 00:00:50,489 S2: very interesting episode. We have once again another male guest 20 00:00:50,490 --> 00:00:52,830 S2: on our show. And I would just like to read 21 00:00:52,830 --> 00:00:55,170 S2: out the very first sentence that our producers put in 22 00:00:55,170 --> 00:00:58,200 S2: our scripts. OK, OK, it goes like this today. We 23 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,130 S2: have a male guest because we are going to discuss emotions. 24 00:01:03,380 --> 00:01:06,200 S1: It's taken me over. You need therapy. 25 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,120 S2: She's definitely emotional. 26 00:01:08,150 --> 00:01:11,240 S1: Well, you know, they always say that boys are emotionless 27 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,550 S1: or they can't show their emotions. And they said, girls 28 00:01:13,550 --> 00:01:16,430 S1: are always like, you know, sugar spice everything. Nice Spice 29 00:01:16,430 --> 00:01:21,020 S1: Boys life like a spice. That's a good pie. So 30 00:01:21,020 --> 00:01:22,890 S1: those are just like, what are you been up to? 31 00:01:22,910 --> 00:01:24,500 S1: Apart from Spice Boy and all that 32 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:27,080 S3: Spice Boys, my brand new single thank you for plugging that. 33 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,650 S3: I've just been, you know, occupied with a few things, 34 00:01:30,650 --> 00:01:33,529 S3: peace of being one of my biggest babies right now 35 00:01:34,069 --> 00:01:36,470 S3: that it's finally out. So I'm very happy that you 36 00:01:36,470 --> 00:01:37,160 S3: guys are rocking it. 37 00:01:37,190 --> 00:01:39,470 S1: Thank you. And I think it's also worthy to mention 38 00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:45,319 S1: that Mommy, Mommy, Mommy, mommy. Yo, Jimmy Fallon. Thanks. I mean, 39 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:47,720 S1: how did you feel in that moment, man? 40 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,980 S3: That was one of the most random, unexpected moments ever. No, 41 00:01:51,980 --> 00:01:53,630 S3: nobody knew it was going to happen. Nobody from my 42 00:01:53,630 --> 00:01:56,210 S3: team knew. So it was a very emotional day, actually. 43 00:01:56,270 --> 00:01:59,210 S3: Did you cry? I cried. My mom cried. My dad cried. 44 00:01:59,210 --> 00:01:59,809 S3: Everybody cried. 45 00:02:00,950 --> 00:02:03,500 S2: You don't cry. Yeah. The anything about men not having 46 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:04,110 S2: emotions 47 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,880 S3: like it was an emotional day. Very emotional day. Because, 48 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:09,710 S3: you know, from the day I started it, it has 49 00:02:09,710 --> 00:02:12,440 S3: always been about how far can we push this right? Like, 50 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,060 S3: Jermaine knows, like, you know, when we're back in the 51 00:02:14,060 --> 00:02:15,890 S3: days we used to study together the dreams 52 00:02:15,889 --> 00:02:16,959 S1: like this one man? 53 00:02:17,180 --> 00:02:17,690 S3: I mean, like 54 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,299 S1: six years, seven years ago, is this, you know, way 55 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:20,600 S1: longer 56 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,149 S3: than we are longer than that. Back then, I wasn't 57 00:02:23,389 --> 00:02:25,430 S3: into rapping. Then I was trying to be an actor. 58 00:02:25,490 --> 00:02:28,040 S3: But the dreams were essentially the same, you know, trying 59 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,740 S3: to be somebody trying to do something great, you know, 60 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,650 S3: for my family, for myself. So the Jimmy Fallon thing 61 00:02:33,650 --> 00:02:36,530 S3: was like, what was the testimony that anything can happen 62 00:02:36,530 --> 00:02:38,480 S3: any time, like dreams are real? 63 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,880 S1: You know, like every month I text Raj, I say, 64 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,430 S1: I'm so proud of you. But the thing is that, 65 00:02:43,430 --> 00:02:45,890 S1: you know, no matter what success comes your way. He's 66 00:02:45,889 --> 00:02:48,079 S1: still the same on the inside, and that's what comes. 67 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,320 S1: Thank you. I think it was so nice that on 68 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,720 S1: that day as well, while it was your achievement, we 69 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,780 S1: saw everybody come together, you know, like Singaporeans, you know, 70 00:02:56,780 --> 00:02:59,880 S1: whether you were your friends or not, everybody was just like, Yo. 71 00:03:00,110 --> 00:03:02,480 S1: And actually, right, I heard from one of his team 72 00:03:02,930 --> 00:03:06,500 S1: that she had just made instant noodles. Oh, very happy. 73 00:03:06,500 --> 00:03:08,060 S1: I'm going to take 20 minutes off. I'm going to 74 00:03:08,060 --> 00:03:10,970 S1: eat my noodles. Just sat down, had a bite. The 75 00:03:10,970 --> 00:03:14,240 S1: message came in and we never got to eat what 76 00:03:14,660 --> 00:03:16,430 S1: it was worth it. And I saw on YouTube. One 77 00:03:16,430 --> 00:03:19,190 S1: of the top searches was young rider Jimmy Fallon, but 78 00:03:19,190 --> 00:03:21,389 S1: it was white or you and your spelt wrong. Like, 79 00:03:21,770 --> 00:03:25,549 S1: Why are you angry young? Wrong? It's like, Yo, you're 80 00:03:25,910 --> 00:03:26,950 S1: very good at it, right? 81 00:03:27,139 --> 00:03:29,360 S2: Like that. So mental health is a subject that I 82 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,210 S2: feel that we have to continuously talk about. So what 83 00:03:32,210 --> 00:03:35,330 S2: better time there is than today to talk about it, OK? 84 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,360 S2: Especially the scene that, you know, men are not allowed 85 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,420 S2: to show emotions, but you know, women, we can cry. 86 00:03:41,420 --> 00:03:43,790 S2: We can weep. Is that really true, though? No. 87 00:03:43,790 --> 00:03:45,620 S1: The worst thing about it is they make it sound 88 00:03:45,620 --> 00:03:48,440 S1: like it's bad. Like all you girls cry all the 89 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,140 S1: time while you are too emotional. And people have used 90 00:03:51,140 --> 00:03:53,660 S1: it as sort of like a negative connotation, you know, like, Oh, 91 00:03:53,660 --> 00:03:56,360 S1: you're too emotional, right? Roger, have you ever heard or 92 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,060 S1: has anyone told you a boys? Don't cry boys didn't cry? 93 00:03:59,180 --> 00:04:02,150 S3: Yeah, definitely. I think the in my family as well, 94 00:04:02,540 --> 00:04:06,050 S3: you know, I come from a traditional South Indian family. 95 00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:09,910 S3: My dad is an elderly man. He's is past 70s now, right? 96 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,810 S3: So that generation of traditional thinking people don't really give 97 00:04:14,810 --> 00:04:18,440 S3: much respect or room for emotion, especially the men 98 00:04:18,740 --> 00:04:19,039 S2: that he 99 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,300 S3: cried. He cried. 100 00:04:20,300 --> 00:04:21,560 S2: He cried when he went on the Jimmy Fallon. 101 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,060 S3: Yeah, because he couldn't control it. And it wasn't something like, um, 102 00:04:25,490 --> 00:04:27,650 S3: he he I don't think he has a very good 103 00:04:27,650 --> 00:04:30,950 S3: relationship with his emotions. You know him being an elderly 104 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,360 S3: man from South India. And I'm pretty sure the environment 105 00:04:35,450 --> 00:04:40,279 S3: then was not very welcoming for for emotions when it 106 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,740 S3: comes to guys, you know? Yeah, it's just the stigma 107 00:04:42,740 --> 00:04:45,919 S3: that we still have. We still continue to have. And 108 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,290 S3: I think now that we are talking about this, now 109 00:04:48,290 --> 00:04:50,210 S3: is the time for us to break these stigmas and 110 00:04:50,210 --> 00:04:55,280 S3: kind of reinvent whatever social construct we have when it 111 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:56,330 S3: comes to things like emotions. 112 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,510 S1: Absolutely. That just Segway because you mentioned that, right? So 113 00:04:59,510 --> 00:05:01,609 S1: right now, you know, as people who are trying to 114 00:05:01,610 --> 00:05:04,729 S1: push for equality for, you know, just being a self 115 00:05:04,730 --> 00:05:07,310 S1: expressing itself, especially as a musician as well. Do you 116 00:05:07,310 --> 00:05:10,940 S1: find that you try to educate with that about, you know, emotions? 117 00:05:10,940 --> 00:05:12,770 S1: Because I think right now we're in a generation where 118 00:05:12,770 --> 00:05:16,339 S1: we're trying to unlearn the stuff that we had learned 119 00:05:16,339 --> 00:05:20,000 S1: from them. Yes. And we're trying to learn again and 120 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,580 S1: we try and bring them along with us as well. 121 00:05:22,670 --> 00:05:23,690 S1: So how has that been for you? 122 00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:28,520 S3: It's never been a problem because if you understand that 123 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,669 S3: everybody's struggling to talk about this, right? So it's not 124 00:05:31,670 --> 00:05:34,040 S3: a matter of sitting down and going like, Dad, listen, 125 00:05:34,190 --> 00:05:35,870 S3: this is what I want. It's not like that. It's 126 00:05:35,870 --> 00:05:40,910 S3: like trying to ease them into the idea of things 127 00:05:40,910 --> 00:05:44,659 S3: have changed. Right? As the generations go by now, people 128 00:05:44,660 --> 00:05:48,560 S3: are more open to talk about things that they consider sensitive. 129 00:05:48,980 --> 00:05:52,279 S3: They consider taboo even, you know, so as an artist 130 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,250 S3: for me, I try to do it in a setlist 131 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,930 S3: of ways, you know, whether it's wearing earrings or whether 132 00:05:57,930 --> 00:06:02,220 S3: it's getting my nails painted, it's like pointing back to truth. 133 00:06:02,710 --> 00:06:05,950 S3: Pointing back to what I want, what I feel like, 134 00:06:06,190 --> 00:06:08,950 S3: so they start to see that this generation is way 135 00:06:08,950 --> 00:06:13,570 S3: more in tune with the inner space, the inner self, 136 00:06:13,570 --> 00:06:15,670 S3: you know, which is what they have been kind of 137 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:17,650 S3: I wouldn't say they're out of touch with it, but 138 00:06:17,650 --> 00:06:19,030 S3: they don't give as much 139 00:06:19,029 --> 00:06:21,880 S1: importance in a normal time, you know, different time. But 140 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,890 S1: on that note, let's get close to over Roger's nails 141 00:06:23,890 --> 00:06:28,150 S1: mighty good god, because like I said in my love, 142 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:32,529 S1: I know him. I nails. I love them. And I 143 00:06:32,529 --> 00:06:34,839 S1: think Roger's doing so much, you know, for other young 144 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,150 S1: boys out there that see you. Hey, you know, I 145 00:06:37,150 --> 00:06:38,560 S1: can get my nails done, too. Why not? 146 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,010 S3: There's something that I find very inspiring, and actually painting 147 00:06:42,010 --> 00:06:44,500 S3: nails wasn't something that I've always dreamed about. Like, you know, 148 00:06:44,710 --> 00:06:46,680 S3: I cannot wait to go for a manicure. It was 149 00:06:46,690 --> 00:06:49,120 S3: never that same for earrings, like it was never like 150 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,539 S3: something I was waiting to do. But I understood the 151 00:06:52,540 --> 00:06:56,080 S3: weight it has on a macro level, like, I love 152 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,310 S3: my nephews and nieces, they look up to me like 153 00:06:58,339 --> 00:07:00,330 S3: I'm their favorite uncle. They look up to me for everything. 154 00:07:00,339 --> 00:07:01,250 S3: And also this uncle. 155 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,200 S1: Yeah, you know, my people don't go, whoa. 156 00:07:04,990 --> 00:07:08,200 S2: Well, on that note, what does uncle think about your 157 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,030 S2: earrings and your fingernails? My dad, your dad. 158 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,580 S3: Well, he told me that he wasn't very open minded 159 00:07:15,580 --> 00:07:18,430 S3: about it in the beginning. Okay? But then he understood 160 00:07:18,430 --> 00:07:22,350 S3: that he understood why I was doing certain things. I know, 161 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,550 S3: like what I was mentioning. It's not like I understand 162 00:07:24,550 --> 00:07:30,010 S3: the gravity of what certain actions have. You know, I 163 00:07:30,010 --> 00:07:33,940 S3: understand the place that I'm in in my community, how 164 00:07:33,940 --> 00:07:37,240 S3: certain things are viewed. I understand how guys painting straight 165 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,120 S3: men painting nails. I understand how they view that right. 166 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,770 S3: So being an artist, being a rapper from day one, 167 00:07:42,770 --> 00:07:46,420 S3: that has been a matter of breaking the stereotype and 168 00:07:46,420 --> 00:07:51,430 S3: breaking whatever mold that people place us in. As an artist, 169 00:07:51,430 --> 00:07:54,250 S3: you have that option, you have the choice, you have 170 00:07:54,250 --> 00:07:57,340 S3: that freedom to express because this is about expression. You know, 171 00:07:57,340 --> 00:07:59,920 S3: it doesn't just stick with stay with words, with what 172 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:02,980 S3: you wear, what you do. My parents understood that my 173 00:08:02,980 --> 00:08:06,190 S3: parents understood that it was all a part of the job. 174 00:08:06,220 --> 00:08:07,780 S3: I mean, at least they see it like that, which 175 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,450 S3: helps them understand it better. But it took it took 176 00:08:10,450 --> 00:08:12,670 S3: a while. It took a few months 177 00:08:13,210 --> 00:08:15,990 S1: to of everything for you. You're in a creative space. 178 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,830 S1: You know you're a musician and all that you're used 179 00:08:17,830 --> 00:08:21,430 S1: to expressing your emotions through your music. What about, let's say, 180 00:08:21,430 --> 00:08:25,300 S1: your peers who maybe they're in a more like, imagine 181 00:08:25,300 --> 00:08:28,030 S1: someone in business that was a lawyer? Can they like 182 00:08:28,030 --> 00:08:29,560 S1: their nails in this day and age? 183 00:08:30,370 --> 00:08:33,160 S3: Well, I mean, it really does boil down to how 184 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,400 S3: they want to express themselves and what works for themselves. 185 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,470 S3: You know what works for you may not work for me. 186 00:08:38,830 --> 00:08:43,780 S3: For me, how I see expression is is boundaryless. You know, 187 00:08:43,809 --> 00:08:47,260 S3: anything you do, anything you like, anything you feel like. 188 00:08:47,470 --> 00:08:51,370 S3: If you look at some of the most iconic fashion 189 00:08:51,370 --> 00:08:55,840 S3: guys like Dennis Rodman from the 90s, whether it's Travis 190 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,720 S3: Scott or Harry Styles, you know, they just do what 191 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,530 S3: they like, you know, and it doesn't fall within any 192 00:09:02,530 --> 00:09:06,490 S3: particular construct of anybody, any any anything. They might have 193 00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:12,099 S3: a label stereotype stigma. It doesn't fall within that, you know, 194 00:09:12,610 --> 00:09:15,910 S3: which is great, you know? So somebody that is not 195 00:09:15,910 --> 00:09:20,560 S3: an artist, they may be a bit more hesitant, hesitant 196 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,760 S3: on painting nails. Or if there's no that things, no, 197 00:09:22,780 --> 00:09:23,250 S3: they're not 198 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,069 S1: even like crying, you know, expressing your emotions. 199 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,230 S3: Yeah, everybody has a different way. You know, like I 200 00:09:29,230 --> 00:09:35,920 S3: have friends that struggle with expressing their deep insecurities or 201 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,510 S3: whatever it is that they're going through, right? But with empathy, 202 00:09:40,510 --> 00:09:45,040 S3: if we all are consciously practicing empathy, which is basically 203 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,599 S3: the ability to listen without casting judgment and just be 204 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,840 S3: there because people don't really need you to tell them 205 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,329 S3: things like 90 percent of the time they already know 206 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,600 S3: already know people are not dumb. Like people are smart. 207 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,420 S3: People know what to do. But where I think we 208 00:10:01,420 --> 00:10:06,790 S3: can all do better collectively as one species is one humanity, right? 209 00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:10,390 S3: And we can all talk about this so that we 210 00:10:10,390 --> 00:10:14,079 S3: can all be more conscious about being empathetic and just 211 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,179 S3: being there for one another and just listening, you know, 212 00:10:16,179 --> 00:10:18,849 S3: because that does a great deal, because when you listen 213 00:10:18,850 --> 00:10:20,890 S3: to your friend, what they're actually doing, the talking, they're 214 00:10:20,890 --> 00:10:25,420 S3: unpacking their own thoughts. And through that they find clarity. 215 00:10:25,420 --> 00:10:29,520 S1: So clarity that, hey, that's all. 216 00:10:30,750 --> 00:10:33,030 S3: Have you do your time? But are 217 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,130 S2: they interesting? So this is coming from a mills point 218 00:10:36,130 --> 00:10:39,130 S2: of view. A question for my ladies men needs to 219 00:10:39,130 --> 00:10:40,839 S2: be strong thoughts. 220 00:10:41,230 --> 00:10:43,569 S1: The thing is that we've been conditioned to think that 221 00:10:43,570 --> 00:10:46,060 S1: men need to be strong, right? And not just in 222 00:10:46,059 --> 00:10:50,199 S1: physical strength, even as an emotional being. You know, you 223 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,270 S1: grow up, you know, I grew up not seeing my 224 00:10:52,270 --> 00:10:55,150 S1: dad cry even once, not even once, and he'd been 225 00:10:55,150 --> 00:10:57,970 S1: through his fair share of shit, right? So I never 226 00:10:57,970 --> 00:10:59,890 S1: thought of the concept of like, oh, men crying and 227 00:10:59,890 --> 00:11:02,500 S1: all that right? But I'm dating someone who is a cancer. 228 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,660 S1: He's freaking emotional out, so I've gotten used to it, 229 00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:08,880 S1: and he when he was growing up, his parents would 230 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,000 S1: validate his feelings. Like, how are you feeling? They want 231 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,740 S1: to see it be a man. I grow some balls. 232 00:11:14,190 --> 00:11:15,630 S1: I tell you, if you want to grow anything, you 233 00:11:15,630 --> 00:11:20,800 S1: grow vagina. You grow blissful. It a vagina is strong, will. 234 00:11:22,380 --> 00:11:25,679 S1: But yeah, OK. What about Yusra? I think if there's 235 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,199 S1: anything at all, I hope no one thinks that we. 236 00:11:28,620 --> 00:11:31,050 S1: Because if you feel like you have to be strong 237 00:11:31,050 --> 00:11:33,630 S1: for somebody, then who's going to be strong for you? Well, 238 00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:34,920 S1: if you're going to do it, do it for yourself. 239 00:11:35,220 --> 00:11:38,250 S1: If you're going to cry, cry for yourself. Because at 240 00:11:38,250 --> 00:11:41,100 S1: the end of the day, it's you. So whatever works 241 00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:43,110 S1: for you and whatever you know, pushes you fall. It 242 00:11:43,170 --> 00:11:45,330 S1: just helps you in that journey. You know, 243 00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:48,569 S2: so I grew up in the very traditional family, and 244 00:11:48,990 --> 00:11:52,740 S2: I've always heard from my my father's, my mother, my father, 245 00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:55,199 S2: my uncles, even my nephew falls down right? They were 246 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,770 S2: always told and non-whites who were in Chinese. So basically, 247 00:11:58,770 --> 00:12:00,569 S2: if you fall down, you cannot cry because you are 248 00:12:00,570 --> 00:12:04,140 S2: a boy. So I grew up with this kind of mindset, 249 00:12:04,350 --> 00:12:07,170 S2: and if my brother cries, I would think it's a 250 00:12:07,170 --> 00:12:10,980 S2: form of weakness, and I am ashamed that I have 251 00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:14,010 S2: once thought this way. So like you mentioned, just not, 252 00:12:14,010 --> 00:12:16,530 S2: I think, is a lot of the unlearning. Now that 253 00:12:16,530 --> 00:12:18,870 S2: we are in this phase of life, we know what's right, 254 00:12:19,170 --> 00:12:22,140 S2: what's wrong. It's time to like, forget what we have 255 00:12:22,140 --> 00:12:25,590 S2: learnt growing up. You know, a culture is not easily changed, 256 00:12:25,710 --> 00:12:26,340 S2: just like this. 257 00:12:26,380 --> 00:12:29,370 S3: Exactly. And that's why I mentioned about empathy, just not 258 00:12:29,370 --> 00:12:31,650 S3: because we cannot blame our parents and say, like, Oh, 259 00:12:31,650 --> 00:12:34,020 S3: you all are so close minded, blah blah. Because the 260 00:12:34,020 --> 00:12:38,310 S3: truth is they were victims of their environment and the 261 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:44,160 S3: environment then required certain modes of living. So the men 262 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:49,080 S3: had to, you know, just wall up God. They weren't 263 00:12:49,650 --> 00:12:53,310 S3: allowed to be vulnerable. They weren't capable of being vulnerable 264 00:12:53,309 --> 00:12:57,420 S3: because times then were rough. You know, we do. I 265 00:12:57,420 --> 00:12:59,220 S3: hear my dad talk about the 60s and I'm like, 266 00:12:59,220 --> 00:13:01,620 S3: How the hell did you survive the 60s when this 267 00:13:01,620 --> 00:13:03,930 S3: sounds like a different planet altogether and it 268 00:13:03,929 --> 00:13:07,840 S2: sounds so tough to be vulnerable back in those times, right? Yes. 269 00:13:08,309 --> 00:13:10,260 S2: So which brings me to my next question. Do you 270 00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:13,050 S2: think in this day and age, women are still more 271 00:13:13,050 --> 00:13:14,010 S2: emotional than men? 272 00:13:14,070 --> 00:13:16,260 S1: Shall we answer together? Oh, three two one isn't a 273 00:13:16,260 --> 00:13:20,219 S1: yes or no? Are women more emotional than men? Three 274 00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:25,440 S1: to one? Yes. Who it yes. I think yes. I 275 00:13:25,470 --> 00:13:25,920 S1: said no, 276 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:27,059 S3: I said yes. 277 00:13:28,260 --> 00:13:30,030 S1: OK. OK. Yes. Yes. 278 00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:33,990 S2: From the yes, OK. I am very emotional myself and 279 00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:38,400 S2: this guy used to date. He he is, of course, 280 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,479 S2: way less emotional than me. He's more rational. So of course, 281 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,390 S2: I feel like this is right. And I didn't like it. 282 00:13:45,390 --> 00:13:47,760 S2: That his less emotional than me, because we can all 283 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,160 S2: be emotional in the relationship is what this is, what 284 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,350 S2: I think. So if one out of the two of 285 00:13:52,350 --> 00:13:55,680 S2: us can be more emotional about it, be me, because 286 00:13:56,190 --> 00:13:58,109 S2: I'm in the artistic side of things, right? I have 287 00:13:58,110 --> 00:14:01,410 S2: a lot of emotions I need to express. Maybe he's 288 00:14:01,410 --> 00:14:03,420 S2: just for me. What about you? What do you see? 289 00:14:03,450 --> 00:14:04,859 S3: Actually, you know what? Now that 290 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:06,510 S1: and wanted to, you say 291 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:10,950 S3: I'm looking back back on my decision. I don't completely 292 00:14:10,950 --> 00:14:15,460 S3: agree to. Yes. But I feel like it's half half neutral. OK. 293 00:14:15,620 --> 00:14:18,930 S3: You know, I know a lot of guys that are 294 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,270 S3: more emotional than some of the girls that I know. 295 00:14:21,450 --> 00:14:23,130 S3: I know a lot of a lot of girls that 296 00:14:23,130 --> 00:14:25,470 S3: are more emotional than some of the guys that I know. 297 00:14:25,470 --> 00:14:27,930 S1: So it's not defined by gender. 298 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,230 S3: It's not, you know, because we all emotional beings, it's 299 00:14:31,230 --> 00:14:34,950 S3: a matter of degree of like how emotional you are. 300 00:14:35,340 --> 00:14:38,880 S3: And is not even on a judgmental point, like, Oh 301 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,490 S3: my god, it's like, you are. It's not even that. 302 00:14:41,850 --> 00:14:45,710 S3: We are all emotional. This affects some of us are 303 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,970 S3: more emotional than others. But as a matter of do 304 00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:50,130 S3: we understand and accept that or not, you know, 305 00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:51,330 S2: empathy like you mentioned? 306 00:14:51,580 --> 00:14:54,000 S1: Yes. And I think it's in which aspect as well, 307 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,280 S1: because some people are just more emotional about certain things, 308 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,460 S1: you know? You know, it's very hard to quantify that way. Yeah. 309 00:14:59,820 --> 00:15:02,640 S1: But for me, right, OK. So I've always grown up 310 00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:07,440 S1: with male friends. Majority of my friends are guys and 311 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,710 S1: they've always regarded me as one of them. One of 312 00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:13,410 S1: the boys. And in fact, sometimes they say, I'm a 313 00:15:13,410 --> 00:15:14,550 S1: little bit more men than they are. 314 00:15:15,450 --> 00:15:17,890 S2: Well, they say that. Do I get that? 315 00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:20,489 S3: But what do they mean? Like, you're more tough than 316 00:15:20,490 --> 00:15:20,640 S3: they 317 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,340 S1: are, I guess. Or like all all, I know, she's 318 00:15:23,340 --> 00:15:25,080 S1: very emotionally tough. 319 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,280 S2: Zero Halsey, right? 320 00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:28,160 S3: Yes, that's probably what they mean. Yeah. 321 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,900 S1: And I don't think it's because I'm not in touch 322 00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,590 S1: with my emotions because I m love swimming in emotions. 323 00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:38,730 S1: But but I feel like now that I look back 324 00:15:38,730 --> 00:15:41,790 S1: on it, I think it came from my childhood. OK, 325 00:15:41,790 --> 00:15:44,250 S1: so yeah, they know this, but I'll give you a summary. 326 00:15:44,250 --> 00:15:47,060 S1: So basically, my father disappeared and I'll say it's like 327 00:15:47,190 --> 00:15:50,250 S1: this in order. And because I'm the only child and 328 00:15:50,250 --> 00:15:54,000 S1: my mother is emotional having gone through whatever she did. 329 00:15:54,330 --> 00:15:57,990 S1: And I think she was, it was a tough button 330 00:15:57,990 --> 00:16:00,300 S1: on her. So at that age, right from like six, 331 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,470 S1: I felt the need to not show my emotions and 332 00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:07,740 S1: to be that pillar for her. So because if I'm 333 00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:10,200 S1: going to cry, that's going to hurt her. So I 334 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,540 S1: didn't do that. If I'm going to ask her where 335 00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:15,120 S1: daddy is, it's going to be tough on her. So 336 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:15,960 S1: I held that back. 337 00:16:16,650 --> 00:16:18,360 S3: So you had to be a pillar of strength. 338 00:16:18,510 --> 00:16:24,420 S1: I did. Oh, I love strength. You can cry here. 339 00:16:24,460 --> 00:16:27,090 S1: I can do a really bad thing. 340 00:16:27,870 --> 00:16:30,420 S3: But thanks for sharing that man like this is super 341 00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:35,700 S3: insightful into how people, how environment and how experiences change people, 342 00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:41,790 S3: you know, like I can. I can understand why your 343 00:16:41,790 --> 00:16:45,479 S3: friends would call you like, tough, like tough, you know, 344 00:16:45,810 --> 00:16:47,760 S3: people who don't really have a choice, you know, it's 345 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,820 S3: like you either you adapt or you die, type of thing. 346 00:16:50,820 --> 00:16:53,820 S3: You know, when when life is giving you such a 347 00:16:53,820 --> 00:16:58,920 S3: difficult experience to accept right or difficult situation, you must 348 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,710 S3: accept race. Like how is that like? You can choose 349 00:17:01,710 --> 00:17:02,970 S3: to not be like, You know what? 350 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:04,889 S2: Yeah. And at the age of six, 351 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,159 S1: you were in survival mode. Yes. And I think you 352 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,790 S1: just sort of find the first thing that works best 353 00:17:11,790 --> 00:17:15,060 S1: for you so that you carry on. And for me, 354 00:17:15,060 --> 00:17:20,159 S1: it was shutting as unnecessary emotions and just choosing to 355 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,760 S1: be happy. But in that, I think in that choice 356 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,240 S1: that I made along the way, I feel like maybe 357 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,119 S1: I was in denial because I never allowed myself to 358 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,909 S1: feel those things. And at some point they sort of 359 00:17:32,910 --> 00:17:36,720 S1: come back, you know, in different ways. And sometimes you wonder, like, 360 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,790 S1: why am I being this way? Yeah, but actually, it's 361 00:17:38,790 --> 00:17:39,600 S1: very deep rooted. 362 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,820 S2: You feel this way. You feel like women are more 363 00:17:41,820 --> 00:17:44,400 S2: emotional than necessarily. 364 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,970 S1: I just feel like while guys are seeing now that 365 00:17:47,970 --> 00:17:51,060 S1: it's OK, I think they're still on a journey and 366 00:17:51,060 --> 00:17:53,460 S1: because it's always been OK for girls to a certain extent. 367 00:17:53,670 --> 00:17:56,700 S1: So right now, you know, we we express a little 368 00:17:56,700 --> 00:17:58,320 S1: more freely, I believe. OK. 369 00:17:58,380 --> 00:17:59,760 S2: What about Jimi? What do you see? 370 00:17:59,820 --> 00:18:02,970 S1: Well, I think it's important to establish that emotions doesn't 371 00:18:02,970 --> 00:18:06,040 S1: just mean crying emotions is passion. I think if you 372 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,920 S1: feel passionate about something, I mean, look at the men 373 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,290 S1: in your life. They have their own passions, you know? 374 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:13,270 S1: Sometimes they get a bit like excited about them. That 375 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,810 S1: is expressing emotions. It's just that, I think, showing the 376 00:18:15,810 --> 00:18:19,770 S1: vulnerable side. When I was younger, I didn't really see 377 00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:22,050 S1: it in my family. But as we grew older, you know, 378 00:18:22,050 --> 00:18:25,990 S1: all the shit came. I've seen everyone cry at this point. Obviously, 379 00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:28,780 S1: they had these emotions all along. It's just that I 380 00:18:28,780 --> 00:18:32,469 S1: think they suppressed them for so many years to protect 381 00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:35,949 S1: those various reasons. Yeah, definitely. So yeah, I don't agree 382 00:18:35,950 --> 00:18:38,170 S1: that women are more emotional than men. I just think 383 00:18:38,170 --> 00:18:39,920 S1: that we express them in different ways. 384 00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:44,380 S3: Yes, I agree to wage it. And like now, I'm 385 00:18:44,380 --> 00:18:48,340 S3: twenty five. I, you know, growing up in a family, 386 00:18:49,150 --> 00:18:51,669 S3: especially when my parents are way older than me, the 387 00:18:51,670 --> 00:18:54,190 S3: generation gap was so white and they come from a 388 00:18:54,190 --> 00:18:57,940 S3: different era. Like I mentioned, I didn't. I don't think 389 00:18:57,940 --> 00:19:02,470 S3: I had the proper tools to feel and unpack certain emotions, 390 00:19:02,619 --> 00:19:05,710 S3: especially the vulnerable ones, you know, and as the boy. 391 00:19:05,740 --> 00:19:09,280 S3: The whole stigma on boys, really, how boys can cry 392 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,350 S3: and all that. And I grew up around three sisters, 393 00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:14,710 S3: my mom, my grandma, you know? So the feminine energy 394 00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:17,619 S3: was strong growing up. So I was I never thought 395 00:19:17,619 --> 00:19:20,139 S3: of it as like, boys can cry. But in my 396 00:19:20,140 --> 00:19:21,700 S3: teenage years, that was conditioned. 397 00:19:21,850 --> 00:19:25,120 S2: Exactly. So these notions like men needs to be stronger, 398 00:19:25,150 --> 00:19:28,270 S2: toughen up. You know, they can't cry. I think it's 399 00:19:28,270 --> 00:19:30,220 S2: very valid still in this day and age. And this 400 00:19:30,220 --> 00:19:32,290 S2: is one question that I don't think any of us 401 00:19:32,290 --> 00:19:34,780 S2: can answer. I feel like a huge part of what 402 00:19:34,780 --> 00:19:39,430 S2: contributes to this is Ennis National Service. So what was 403 00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:42,100 S2: your experience and is like? Is it late? Does it 404 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:44,530 S2: really contribute to this that men needs to toughen up 405 00:19:44,530 --> 00:19:45,129 S2: kind of notion? 406 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,830 S3: I was very lucky. I knew from a very young 407 00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:51,310 S3: age that when I go to Ennis, I don't want 408 00:19:51,310 --> 00:19:55,210 S3: to be in in a combat department. I knew, yeah, 409 00:19:55,630 --> 00:19:57,190 S3: I knew from a very young age that I would 410 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,800 S3: only want to be an MDC, which is music and drama. 411 00:19:59,970 --> 00:20:05,169 S3: But now they have changed too. So drama and. Right? So, yeah, 412 00:20:05,170 --> 00:20:08,470 S3: so I made my move into trying to figure out 413 00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:10,929 S3: how to get into MDC and I got into MDC. 414 00:20:10,930 --> 00:20:14,100 S3: So my entire two years, I spent my my and 415 00:20:14,130 --> 00:20:19,660 S3: my next year being an M.C.. Oh yeah. I just 416 00:20:19,660 --> 00:20:22,570 S3: wanted to do something that is still aligning with my passion. 417 00:20:22,580 --> 00:20:25,090 S3: I mean, I'm seeing is not what I what I 418 00:20:25,090 --> 00:20:27,359 S3: initially dreamt of being, 419 00:20:27,369 --> 00:20:29,290 S1: but you got I'm good at it. Yeah, yeah. 420 00:20:29,410 --> 00:20:31,860 S3: I'm still in the arts industry. I knew that it's 421 00:20:31,869 --> 00:20:34,389 S3: still in the media scene and it's still in the 422 00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:36,760 S3: world that I want to be in as an adult. 423 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,110 S3: So it was great. It was 424 00:20:38,109 --> 00:20:41,469 S1: foundational. Can you imagine, though, being part of like commando 425 00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:43,870 S1: or as a diver, you know, the time is 426 00:20:44,490 --> 00:20:46,840 S3: actually you what I remember when I did a small 427 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,670 S3: role in our boys to me? Oh, of course, of course. 428 00:20:48,790 --> 00:20:51,790 S3: So we had to training symbol one camp with the 429 00:20:51,790 --> 00:20:55,660 S3: naval divers, and I met these guys. These are like, what? 430 00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:59,649 S3: They they are not the kind of people where you 431 00:20:59,650 --> 00:21:03,970 S3: want to talk about emotions. We have all these. They 432 00:21:03,970 --> 00:21:06,730 S3: got no emotion. Yeah, I have a friend who also 433 00:21:06,730 --> 00:21:10,570 S3: in the most elite unit in Singapore over know what 434 00:21:10,570 --> 00:21:12,370 S3: the unit is called OK, but I have a friend 435 00:21:12,369 --> 00:21:14,920 S3: from that unit and he he was telling me about 436 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,070 S3: his training regimen. His training routine every day is that 437 00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:22,000 S3: wake up 5:00 PM run 10 kilometers and then do 438 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,820 S3: this and that like back to back carry like 20 439 00:21:24,820 --> 00:21:27,060 S3: 30 kilo weight and then run again at night, like 440 00:21:27,070 --> 00:21:29,800 S3: is just ridiculous like you. It doesn't make sense, you know? 441 00:21:30,310 --> 00:21:33,840 S3: And I one day, if these guys. Even think about 442 00:21:33,850 --> 00:21:34,500 S3: emotion is not 443 00:21:34,780 --> 00:21:35,740 S1: they don't have time for it. 444 00:21:35,770 --> 00:21:39,190 S3: Yeah. It feels like they don't have time for that shit. 445 00:21:39,330 --> 00:21:40,750 S3: You know, it's not one of those things like, you 446 00:21:40,869 --> 00:21:43,139 S3: don't bother me with this fucking question, you know, like, 447 00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:45,220 S3: you feel like they would think of it as like, Yeah, 448 00:21:45,310 --> 00:21:49,510 S3: I'm too busy trying to train to be a fighter killer, right? 449 00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:54,260 S3: Don't don't pull me back with your emotional, personal crap. 450 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,290 S3: It feels like they think that, but I'm not sure 451 00:21:56,770 --> 00:21:58,139 S3: that's the fact that they give the order. 452 00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:59,800 S2: Where do they find the girlfriend? 453 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,590 S3: Oh, no, I'm pretty sure these guys are like some 454 00:22:02,590 --> 00:22:05,590 S3: of them are married and all but just that their 455 00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:09,940 S3: show of masculinity is so much right that you I 456 00:22:09,940 --> 00:22:12,550 S3: wonder if they have any form of look 457 00:22:12,550 --> 00:22:13,210 S2: out of space. 458 00:22:13,450 --> 00:22:16,090 S3: Yeah, I guess. Yes. Yeah. Like, like, do they have 459 00:22:16,090 --> 00:22:19,179 S3: that pocket of space within them, like within their spirit? 460 00:22:19,450 --> 00:22:23,200 S3: Because if your environment is expecting you to be an 461 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,690 S3: elite soldier, how they are like, 462 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,970 S1: like some of the shit they're expected to do has 463 00:22:27,970 --> 00:22:30,880 S1: a mental toll as well. Is anyone going to talk 464 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,770 S1: to them about that? Because if you lock it away 465 00:22:32,770 --> 00:22:35,320 S1: for years, like a said, it's going to resurface in 466 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,000 S1: ways that are very damaging to you. 467 00:22:37,030 --> 00:22:40,449 S3: Yes, the only way for you to not have it 468 00:22:40,450 --> 00:22:43,810 S3: resurface again is if you unpack it. So for it 469 00:22:43,810 --> 00:22:46,840 S3: to be unpacked, you need to provide the safe space. 470 00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:51,200 S3: So most of these are aware of it as well. Yes. Yeah. Awareness? Yeah. 471 00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:55,119 S3: And then knowing how to bring it out. Some people 472 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,910 S3: write it in the diary. Some people talk to their peers. 473 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,400 S3: Some people talk to their wives, girlfriends, whatever it is, right? 474 00:23:00,790 --> 00:23:02,830 S3: But it's like if you're not capable of doing those 475 00:23:02,830 --> 00:23:04,750 S3: things and if you're not given the safe space to 476 00:23:04,750 --> 00:23:08,320 S3: express those things and unpack those things, then it's just like, 477 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,470 S3: it's going to haunt you at every point of your life, 478 00:23:11,470 --> 00:23:12,340 S3: you know? Exactly. 479 00:23:13,090 --> 00:23:15,520 S1: So what we were talking about, you know, dating for 480 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,990 S1: that matter and just coming back into how men has 481 00:23:18,020 --> 00:23:20,550 S1: be strong, tough and things like that. And because we 482 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,109 S1: on a wave do sort of like change things, just 483 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,990 S1: even if you reach out to one single person out 484 00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:28,479 S1: there who looks at you and just go, Wow, I 485 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,760 S1: don't have to be all that telling you to be. 486 00:23:31,180 --> 00:23:33,970 S1: So for you and your own dating experience, have you 487 00:23:33,970 --> 00:23:37,510 S1: ever had girls who expect that sort of masculinity from you? 488 00:23:37,570 --> 00:23:41,440 S3: Yeah, there's definitely that gender stereotypes that come with dating, right? 489 00:23:41,530 --> 00:23:45,190 S3: I've definitely data girls that think that the guy should 490 00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:48,190 S3: always be the guy should open the door, the guy 491 00:23:48,190 --> 00:23:48,760 S3: should do this. 492 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,250 S2: And that is what we are about, including the guy 493 00:23:51,250 --> 00:23:51,970 S2: to open the door. 494 00:23:51,970 --> 00:23:54,790 S3: So which is which is fine. There's nothing wrong with it. 495 00:23:55,390 --> 00:23:58,680 S3: There's nothing wrong with that stigma. You know, it's cool 496 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,080 S3: when you're dating, when in the dating phase is fine. 497 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,500 S3: This way, I'm like, I don't mind playing these playing 498 00:24:05,500 --> 00:24:10,180 S3: within the gender roles that have been around for years, decades, centuries. 499 00:24:10,180 --> 00:24:12,190 S3: I don't know how long they've been around. Once you 500 00:24:12,190 --> 00:24:14,760 S3: go deep into it, right, then you can, you know, 501 00:24:14,770 --> 00:24:16,210 S3: talk about these things and be like, You know what? 502 00:24:16,210 --> 00:24:19,630 S3: Let's you bet it's time. You know why I must 503 00:24:19,630 --> 00:24:22,150 S3: be the whole time. I like what the bank is like. 504 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,030 S1: I mean, you say, like, these are you? I mean, 505 00:24:25,030 --> 00:24:27,679 S3: I don't say like this, but this is the feeling inside. 506 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:29,590 S3: But then, of course, I put it to her nicely. 507 00:24:30,490 --> 00:24:31,510 S1: Except it, of 508 00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:36,040 S3: course, is it's logical. It's like if I pay five times, 509 00:24:36,730 --> 00:24:40,300 S3: five times in a row, sixth time, it's not wrong 510 00:24:40,990 --> 00:24:43,420 S3: for you to be aware. The fact that I've been 511 00:24:43,420 --> 00:24:45,939 S3: paying this whole time is not wrong for you to 512 00:24:45,940 --> 00:24:49,609 S3: be aware of it and try to do something nice back. 513 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:51,490 S3: It's not like I'm expecting, you know what I mean? 514 00:24:51,730 --> 00:24:53,830 S3: And it's not me. I'm talking about guys in general. 515 00:24:53,830 --> 00:24:55,830 S3: I've spoken to a lot of my guy friends about this. 516 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,139 S3: It's a matter of like reciprocation. It's like, you know, 517 00:24:59,140 --> 00:25:02,500 S3: I mean which, which I think is needed and is 518 00:25:02,500 --> 00:25:05,590 S3: healthy for a long term relationship. Exactly. 519 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,290 S2: It is more than just about the money. You know, 520 00:25:08,290 --> 00:25:10,030 S2: the money's not an issue at all 521 00:25:10,030 --> 00:25:10,960 S1: is the gesture 522 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,340 S3: that counts. And that is the truest thing when it 523 00:25:15,340 --> 00:25:17,460 S3: comes to long term relationships, I feel. 524 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,889 S1: But I appreciate that. And I think, guys, it's OK 525 00:25:20,890 --> 00:25:23,830 S1: to voice it and say, like your your beer. 526 00:25:24,109 --> 00:25:29,980 S3: But maybe not, maybe that aggressively loud, but you know, 527 00:25:29,980 --> 00:25:32,200 S3: you're better off for years as like you keep going 528 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,340 S3: for years and you just laugh. 529 00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:35,140 S2: Well, this is the kind of thing that I feel 530 00:25:35,170 --> 00:25:37,630 S2: like should come out. Even when you guys are dating, 531 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,670 S2: you should have come only in the leap of faith 532 00:25:39,670 --> 00:25:41,930 S2: because it's going to pose a lot of questions to 533 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,180 S2: the relationship you try 534 00:25:43,180 --> 00:25:43,790 S3: to deal 535 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,400 S2: with, know you love. 536 00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:51,939 S3: So the goal is to ease each other into such 537 00:25:51,940 --> 00:25:53,980 S3: difficult conversations. I mean, of course, first date, you're trying 538 00:25:53,980 --> 00:25:55,720 S3: to be like, Yeah, you know what? Don't worry about it. 539 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,619 S3: Maybe I'll bring you this Michelin star and I'm like, Oh, like, 540 00:25:59,859 --> 00:26:04,090 S3: open the cake cooler. I would do those things. It's nice. 541 00:26:04,210 --> 00:26:06,190 S3: And I mean, that's that's the whole vibe of dating 542 00:26:06,190 --> 00:26:08,280 S3: where you want to go through the whole nine yards. Like, 543 00:26:08,290 --> 00:26:10,330 S3: I think that's what makes dating fun like for me. 544 00:26:10,330 --> 00:26:14,230 S3: I've enjoyed that. The more you know, the whatever little 545 00:26:15,010 --> 00:26:17,100 S3: things like that, you know, when it comes to dating, 546 00:26:17,109 --> 00:26:21,790 S3: but they change over time. You cannot. It cannot be 547 00:26:21,790 --> 00:26:22,390 S3: like forever. 548 00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:23,830 S1: Right? 549 00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:28,000 S2: Yeah. Is she an emotional creature? And how do you 550 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,170 S2: deal with emotions? 551 00:26:29,410 --> 00:26:33,050 S3: Empathy, man. Empathy is the one that is. The one 552 00:26:33,890 --> 00:26:36,830 S3: values represent a value, I think it is a very 553 00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:40,250 S3: empty these, I would say, is the most important value 554 00:26:40,340 --> 00:26:42,800 S3: and also patience because people I want to mention are 555 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,450 S3: people have different means of unpacking and processing what they're 556 00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:49,850 S3: going through. It can never I've made this mistake with 557 00:26:49,850 --> 00:26:52,100 S3: my friends before. In all, my friends are going through 558 00:26:52,670 --> 00:26:56,600 S3: something difficult time and they're constantly in that negative space. 559 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,130 S3: I have made the mistake of being upset that my 560 00:27:01,130 --> 00:27:04,040 S3: friend is not moving out of it. Like, Come on, man, 561 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,170 S3: it's been months. Like, What are you doing right now? Oh, 562 00:27:06,170 --> 00:27:08,629 S3: of course I didn't say it, but I felt it inside. 563 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,490 S3: After some of those kinds of experiences experiences, I realized 564 00:27:13,490 --> 00:27:18,260 S3: that you should never put your own views or emotions 565 00:27:18,260 --> 00:27:21,170 S3: onto others because everybody is going through their own journey, 566 00:27:21,530 --> 00:27:26,270 S3: their own journey of battles, of trauma, of healing. Everybody 567 00:27:26,270 --> 00:27:29,780 S3: has a different timing. Everybody has a different path of 568 00:27:30,170 --> 00:27:33,680 S3: moving towards a better place, right? Like getting healed. So 569 00:27:34,210 --> 00:27:37,540 S3: when my partner is going through something, I just listen, man, 570 00:27:37,550 --> 00:27:39,260 S3: I just sit down and listen and just be patient 571 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,199 S3: like patient until she gets to the bottom of it. 572 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,780 S3: So let's get to the bottom of it. You see 573 00:27:43,790 --> 00:27:46,010 S3: everything you want to see because essentially that's what you 574 00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:49,310 S3: call for therapy, for therapy, for that like you, just 575 00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:53,119 S3: one percent to fucking listen and not talk and not talk. 576 00:27:53,330 --> 00:27:56,540 S3: Of course, after you are done seeing everything, they want 577 00:27:56,540 --> 00:28:00,500 S3: to see everything, then maybe I could share with you 578 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:03,020 S3: what I feel about it. But what I feel about 579 00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:06,889 S3: it should never be prioritized over what you feel. You know, 580 00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:09,400 S3: as a friend, as a partner, as a family member, 581 00:28:09,619 --> 00:28:11,420 S3: as an uncle is whatever it is that you are. 582 00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:14,209 S3: I think that is something that we all need to 583 00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:15,050 S3: be aware of. 584 00:28:15,140 --> 00:28:17,870 S2: This is a very good point, very like a prototype 585 00:28:18,020 --> 00:28:20,869 S2: for all you guys in relationships out there. When your 586 00:28:20,869 --> 00:28:23,570 S2: partner is experiencing a tough time and he or she 587 00:28:23,570 --> 00:28:25,550 S2: just wants you to listen, you should ask him about 588 00:28:25,550 --> 00:28:27,860 S2: this question. Do you want me to just listen or 589 00:28:27,859 --> 00:28:30,830 S2: do something a solution? So the approach is very different. 590 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,469 S2: Whether you sit down and listen or you actually offer 591 00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:34,190 S2: some advice, 592 00:28:34,220 --> 00:28:36,440 S1: correct, because you don't need it to feel like that, 593 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,290 S1: you just step in and tell you what to do. 594 00:28:39,770 --> 00:28:42,380 S1: Tell you what to do. And nothing that causes friction. 595 00:28:42,860 --> 00:28:46,760 S3: And it's not like people are stepping in because of 596 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,440 S3: any negative or malicious intentions. They want to help. Yeah, right. 597 00:28:51,980 --> 00:28:54,380 S3: But do they need the help or not? Like this 598 00:28:54,380 --> 00:28:57,710 S3: is something that you it's your job to be aware 599 00:28:58,070 --> 00:29:00,980 S3: and ask that question beforehand, because if you assume that 600 00:29:00,980 --> 00:29:03,440 S3: they need help and they're coming to you for help 601 00:29:03,770 --> 00:29:05,810 S3: and you handle the situation only, then 602 00:29:05,810 --> 00:29:06,080 S2: you're being 603 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,990 S3: disrespectful. Yeah, you're being disrespectful to the to the space, 604 00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:12,860 S3: to the energy that they are going through, the energy 605 00:29:12,860 --> 00:29:13,430 S3: that they're having. 606 00:29:13,610 --> 00:29:16,220 S1: I think sometimes the best thing is to just listen 607 00:29:16,430 --> 00:29:19,340 S1: and validate their feelings, but I think it's interesting that 608 00:29:19,340 --> 00:29:22,190 S1: you brought up therapy. Can I ask you like personally, 609 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,830 S1: have you been to therapy before or do you think 610 00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:27,890 S1: like more men should go for therapy 100 percent? 611 00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:31,880 S3: I think one of the biggest problems we have in 612 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,580 S3: the world of mental health is the stigma that is 613 00:29:34,580 --> 00:29:38,570 S3: attached to therapy and the stigma is attached to conversations 614 00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:42,680 S3: about mental health. I think people feel that therapy is 615 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,150 S3: what pushes like to put it in one line. I 616 00:29:47,150 --> 00:29:49,040 S3: think a lot of guys, a lot of guys think 617 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,130 S3: that thing that I've I have friends that think that 618 00:29:52,820 --> 00:29:56,930 S3: until they go through some shit and they're finding it 619 00:29:56,930 --> 00:30:00,530 S3: super difficult to cope with certain things and they feel like, 620 00:30:00,530 --> 00:30:03,110 S3: Oh my god, I need help is one of those 621 00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:07,070 S3: things that you cannot really know the weight of it, 622 00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:10,130 S3: of how much therapy helps if you don't go through it, 623 00:30:10,130 --> 00:30:11,990 S3: you know. Right. So if you're just standing from outside, 624 00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:14,870 S3: your life is good, you're not really going through a lot. 625 00:30:15,050 --> 00:30:17,930 S3: You would never be able to empathize. You know, there's 626 00:30:17,930 --> 00:30:21,050 S3: certain things in life you will not really know until 627 00:30:21,050 --> 00:30:23,330 S3: you know what I mean. Therapy is one of those things, 628 00:30:24,020 --> 00:30:26,750 S3: but one way I feel that we can mitigate this 629 00:30:26,750 --> 00:30:30,470 S3: issue is by talking about it. And the more people 630 00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:35,090 S3: we have opening about their difficult experiences, the better it 631 00:30:35,090 --> 00:30:39,320 S3: will be for the collective understanding of how important therapy is, 632 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,610 S3: how important talking about mental health is and how important 633 00:30:43,610 --> 00:30:47,360 S3: it is, especially moving forward in a world that in 634 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,610 S3: a world where depression is going up, suicide rate is 635 00:30:49,610 --> 00:30:51,790 S3: going up. Exactly. We are all going through shit. 636 00:30:52,190 --> 00:30:53,750 S2: I think this is a very good point. So let's 637 00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:58,190 S2: talk about how we as a society can encourage expression, 638 00:30:58,190 --> 00:30:59,570 S2: emotional expression in men. 639 00:30:59,780 --> 00:31:02,810 S1: Yeah, we have like empathy, and that is so important. 640 00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:05,500 S1: You know, listening to people, going for therapy, 641 00:31:05,510 --> 00:31:07,790 S2: getting someone to listen to you. Right. And I think 642 00:31:07,790 --> 00:31:11,690 S2: you're much I mentioned something very good parenting with parenting, 643 00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:14,030 S2: you know, teach your kids, what do you think are 644 00:31:14,030 --> 00:31:16,490 S2: the right values? Teach them that it's OK if they 645 00:31:16,490 --> 00:31:18,950 S2: have emotions, is OK to express them. 646 00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:22,100 S1: You know how whenever you go out and then some parents, 647 00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:23,930 S1: like when their kids are making noise, they were scolded 648 00:31:23,930 --> 00:31:25,670 S1: and tell them, shut up. Like, Stop making noise, you're 649 00:31:25,670 --> 00:31:29,390 S1: embarrassing me. There's my parents. But it's cutting off their 650 00:31:29,390 --> 00:31:33,040 S1: emotional capacities, just telling them, don't be. Emotional, yup. 651 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,660 S3: No, I'm pretty sure a lot of Asian parents have 652 00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:38,150 S3: that kind of parenting and that, like I mentioned, you 653 00:31:38,150 --> 00:31:40,580 S3: can't blame them because they are parents probably raise them 654 00:31:40,580 --> 00:31:45,080 S3: that way. So we we just continue habits that have 655 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,229 S3: been passed down. I mean, what you would do as 656 00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:51,740 S3: a parent would be exactly what your parent did. But 657 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,620 S3: those parents that make a choice, you know what? My 658 00:31:54,620 --> 00:31:57,290 S3: parents did this to me. I am not going to 659 00:31:57,290 --> 00:31:59,709 S3: do this to my child, so I will change, right? 660 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,580 S3: But until that person figures out and understands the fact 661 00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:08,180 S3: that they have to switch the pattern, then we have 662 00:32:08,180 --> 00:32:10,220 S3: new we have a new pattern, we have a new 663 00:32:10,220 --> 00:32:13,490 S3: way of parenting or whatnot. Exactly. But a lot of 664 00:32:13,490 --> 00:32:17,960 S3: these Asian parents are just following the traditions, traditions 665 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,570 S1: yet because they still think that they're protecting their child 666 00:32:20,570 --> 00:32:22,880 S1: by telling them what to do because I know better 667 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,280 S1: than you. But I think what they don't realize sometimes 668 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,170 S1: is that even if you realize that your child is 669 00:32:27,170 --> 00:32:29,510 S1: making a mistake, it might be a mistake that they 670 00:32:29,510 --> 00:32:30,590 S1: have to make for themselves. 671 00:32:30,660 --> 00:32:33,320 S3: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So what is the well put if 672 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,050 S3: the child is going to run and fall or touch 673 00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:39,860 S3: a candle and burn himself or herself is you got 674 00:32:39,860 --> 00:32:41,720 S3: to learn? I mean, how else are you going to know? 675 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,270 S1: Well, when it comes to parenting, I think the language 676 00:32:44,270 --> 00:32:46,640 S1: that you use with your children's very important as well. Like, 677 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,570 S1: don't tell them you don't cry like a girl, you know? Oh, 678 00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:51,420 S1: you're like a girl. Very negative. 679 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,780 S3: Yeah, yeah. There's this a recently discovered parenting TikTok parent 680 00:32:56,420 --> 00:32:57,680 S1: brand for Instagram, and 681 00:32:57,890 --> 00:33:00,560 S3: I don't know what the hashtag is, but I discovered 682 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,970 S3: this stream of TikToks of parents showing what kind of 683 00:33:04,970 --> 00:33:07,400 S3: language they use to the three year olds that are 684 00:33:07,550 --> 00:33:10,240 S3: throwing a tantrum. How patient they are, how they talk, 685 00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:12,290 S3: what kind of words they use, and they show it 686 00:33:12,290 --> 00:33:13,910 S3: on a step by step. There's one video that I 687 00:33:13,910 --> 00:33:16,400 S3: watched that was super interesting step by step first. You 688 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,560 S3: just listen, you calm them down. And I think the 689 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,520 S3: second one was to validate their feelings like, I understand 690 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,030 S3: that you are upset. Shall we then properly moving towards 691 00:33:26,030 --> 00:33:28,610 S3: a place where they can find a solution? It's so important. 692 00:33:28,610 --> 00:33:31,930 S3: It's like, wow, like I imagine if we learn, right? 693 00:33:32,450 --> 00:33:34,700 S3: And we raise our kids in in this manner 694 00:33:34,730 --> 00:33:36,730 S1: in a healthy health fashion, 695 00:33:37,010 --> 00:33:39,680 S2: the world is going to be a much better place. Definitely. 696 00:33:39,690 --> 00:33:41,540 S2: I'm not ready to be a parent. OK. 697 00:33:42,110 --> 00:33:43,320 S3: I don't think you can ever be ready to be. 698 00:33:43,490 --> 00:33:46,210 S3: I've been asking all of my friends that are not 699 00:33:46,220 --> 00:33:48,140 S3: married and have babies. All of them tell me, there's 700 00:33:48,140 --> 00:33:50,900 S3: no way that you can never be ready for it. 701 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,400 S3: They would be truly ready. I mean, of course, you 702 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,979 S3: can prep, save Manila, open a bank of a child. 703 00:33:54,980 --> 00:33:56,870 S3: But this and that you can, like, set up the 704 00:33:56,870 --> 00:34:01,250 S3: things that are necessary to welcome your child to plan it. Yeah, right. 705 00:34:01,670 --> 00:34:05,920 S3: But here and here, whenever you'd be truly ready, that's 706 00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:06,230 S3: that's you. 707 00:34:07,070 --> 00:34:09,500 S2: So it's very interesting. This is study done in 2015 708 00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:12,950 S2: on emotional expression in children. It found that social factors 709 00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:15,410 S2: in a child's development play a large role in the 710 00:34:15,410 --> 00:34:19,430 S2: gender differences, so gender differences were not found in infancy. Hmm. OK. 711 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,859 S2: Contrary to popular belief, but they were much by the 712 00:34:21,860 --> 00:34:24,380 S2: toddler preschool period and in childhood. 713 00:34:24,530 --> 00:34:28,569 S1: So you're not born with exactly no emotional incapacity? Yeah, 714 00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:29,780 S1: whereas you learn it 715 00:34:30,140 --> 00:34:31,790 S2: seems like a nature versus nurture 716 00:34:31,790 --> 00:34:32,900 S1: kind of thing, right? Yeah. 717 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,290 S2: I also heard from some of my preschool teachers, my friends, 718 00:34:36,830 --> 00:34:40,670 S2: that the children's brains develop the most between the ages 719 00:34:40,670 --> 00:34:42,770 S2: of three to six. Mm hmm. So that's like essentially 720 00:34:42,770 --> 00:34:45,259 S2: the best time to teach them some values and stuff 721 00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:47,569 S2: like that. So maybe, you know, young parents out there 722 00:34:47,570 --> 00:34:49,490 S2: listening to us maybe can start from this. 723 00:34:49,580 --> 00:34:52,370 S1: Actually, I don't know if you've seen, but very recently 724 00:34:52,370 --> 00:34:55,819 S1: there was a post that went viral about a 14 725 00:34:55,820 --> 00:34:59,060 S1: year old girl who had took her own life in China. Yes. 726 00:34:59,870 --> 00:35:03,740 S1: And she had written a suicide note essentially to her 727 00:35:03,739 --> 00:35:07,340 S1: mother and just basically saying that this is for all 728 00:35:07,340 --> 00:35:10,100 S1: the times that you used all those words to me. 729 00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:13,550 S1: You say, I'm useless. OK? You see, I, you know, 730 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,970 S1: I'm worth nothing. I hope you have. You know this. 731 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,819 S1: And I think this is something we can all understand 732 00:35:19,820 --> 00:35:22,580 S1: because we have all had words like that hurled at 733 00:35:22,580 --> 00:35:25,010 S1: us in the spill of the moment while they're angry. 734 00:35:25,290 --> 00:35:28,310 S1: But I don't think they understand that. You say in 735 00:35:28,310 --> 00:35:32,060 S1: that moment, your kit carries it with them. Yeah, yeah. 736 00:35:32,180 --> 00:35:33,980 S1: And you know, for the rest of us or for 737 00:35:33,980 --> 00:35:36,500 S1: those of us who are capable, we just push those 738 00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:39,420 S1: words away. But there are those who will believe them. 739 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,830 S3: Yup, exactly. That one moment where you let your tongue 740 00:35:43,370 --> 00:35:46,669 S3: slip go hammer. Yup. That moment of slip is a 741 00:35:46,670 --> 00:35:48,890 S3: lifetime of regret could be a lifetime of regret. 742 00:35:49,370 --> 00:35:52,210 S1: So heartbreaking. Yeah. I mean, I think as parents, you know, 743 00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:55,040 S1: we don't expect them to be perfect. So let's let's 744 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,680 S1: start with our generation. Let's see how we can better 745 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,660 S1: serve our children and the next generation. Mm hmm. 746 00:36:01,130 --> 00:36:03,750 S2: I think it's important to be more accepting. Like what 747 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,259 S2: Roger mentioned just now is important. Just set everything to 748 00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:08,120 S2: say Who do I pets? Since I put it? For instance, 749 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,190 S2: I just sit down and listen to your partner or 750 00:36:10,190 --> 00:36:12,799 S2: your friend or whoever who needs listening. You like what 751 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,220 S2: he's doing right now. I don't know what the perfect example. OK. 752 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,710 S3: You know, what was interesting is that people don't even 753 00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:22,219 S3: know how to ask you to lend a listening ear. 754 00:36:23,060 --> 00:36:24,779 S3: People don't even know how to do that. Yeah, right? 755 00:36:24,989 --> 00:36:26,780 S3: They'll just be like, Oh, bro, let's hang on. Like, Oh, 756 00:36:26,780 --> 00:36:29,870 S3: let's go out. Actually, what they really want is to 757 00:36:29,870 --> 00:36:32,490 S3: spend time and talk about what they're going through. But 758 00:36:32,489 --> 00:36:35,549 S3: people are not able to voice out and say, Hey, man, listen, 759 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,500 S3: can we go for drinks tonight? I have something to 760 00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:41,759 S3: talk about. Yeah. What is wrong with showing your vulnerability, 761 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,239 S3: you know? So we feel like that's not OK or 762 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,780 S3: is not socially acceptable as acceptable yet. So we are 763 00:36:48,780 --> 00:36:50,940 S3: like saying about this and I feel like we should, 764 00:36:50,940 --> 00:36:51,060 S3: and 765 00:36:51,210 --> 00:36:54,120 S2: this is something that men experience because for us, huge 766 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,700 S2: goals and actual friends, I don't think we've ever faced 767 00:36:56,700 --> 00:36:58,950 S2: this issue. Like whenever I have something window on my chest, 768 00:36:58,980 --> 00:37:01,169 S2: I just pop a text into it. A group chat 769 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,609 S2: titled Sexy Ladies, 770 00:37:02,610 --> 00:37:04,469 S1: by the way, I feel about you. 771 00:37:06,330 --> 00:37:08,100 S2: I just say, you know, can we hang out like, 772 00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:10,950 S2: I have something to tell you guys and I need 773 00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:13,980 S2: to just get this off my chest and always be 774 00:37:13,980 --> 00:37:16,500 S2: so ready to let me listen to you? So I 775 00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:18,810 S2: do feel like women. We are more expressive in this. 776 00:37:18,810 --> 00:37:21,870 S2: Expect we are OK to to show our girlfriends that 777 00:37:21,870 --> 00:37:23,040 S2: we need help. We need support. 778 00:37:23,250 --> 00:37:25,890 S1: You know what I mean? I find that emotional invalidation 779 00:37:25,890 --> 00:37:27,750 S1: really happens when, for example, I talked to my dad 780 00:37:27,989 --> 00:37:29,850 S1: and I tell him, No, I'm feeling this way, this way, 781 00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:31,739 S1: this way that he would just tell me, no lies, 782 00:37:31,739 --> 00:37:34,050 S1: just all in your head. Whatever it is, it's not. 783 00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:35,790 S3: Well, dad is not. 784 00:37:35,790 --> 00:37:39,029 S1: Yeah, it's frustrating. But yeah, like we sit there from 785 00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:41,969 S1: a different generation, so I try to coax emotions out 786 00:37:41,969 --> 00:37:43,500 S1: of him. Like, you do that? Yes. 787 00:37:43,950 --> 00:37:46,950 S3: So I purposely go up to my dad and be like, 788 00:37:46,980 --> 00:37:49,790 S3: Look at my new nails with my new earrings. Do 789 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,489 S3: like it. And my dad's like, Yeah, it's nice, son. 790 00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:55,250 S3: You're like, I'm like, Yeah, I fucking love it. He's 791 00:37:55,530 --> 00:37:58,460 S3: so happy, dad. Look at my earrings. Look, my nails 792 00:37:58,460 --> 00:38:00,899 S3: is like you, right? Yeah, I love it. I purposely 793 00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:04,259 S3: see these things because I one. My parents and my 794 00:38:04,260 --> 00:38:06,450 S3: family members do know that I'll do what I love 795 00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:10,860 S3: and I'll constantly prioritize my happiness. Exactly. Over your acceptance. 796 00:38:10,890 --> 00:38:14,310 S3: I'm not saying your accepting is not important. Exempt acceptance 797 00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:18,390 S3: is important, but it is not more important than my 798 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:21,719 S1: happiness, right? And by by verbalizing it and saying it, 799 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,839 S1: you normalize it as well for your young cousins and 800 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,290 S1: all that. 801 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,250 S3: Yeah. So I have cousins that might just get kicked 802 00:38:29,250 --> 00:38:31,109 S3: out of the house if they came, came in with 803 00:38:31,110 --> 00:38:33,510 S3: colored hair or like this year's, you know, because there's 804 00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:37,830 S3: this traditional super traditional parenting or families, right? I go 805 00:38:37,830 --> 00:38:40,860 S3: to my, my cousins weddings and all. They look at 806 00:38:40,860 --> 00:38:42,989 S3: me like, I'm some alien. And I mean, like, Look, 807 00:38:42,989 --> 00:38:46,110 S3: this guy with all my gorgeous earrings. Oh my god. 808 00:38:46,650 --> 00:38:48,630 S3: And the straight away just come to an assumption. Oh, 809 00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:51,120 S3: is this guy gay like this? No, I mean, like, 810 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:52,950 S3: you see how your mind plays tricks on them, right? 811 00:38:53,170 --> 00:38:55,560 S3: Makes me more motivated and be like to to just 812 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,600 S3: be myself. It's like why? What kind of treatment pain is? Absolutely. 813 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:00,509 S3: The problem with that? 814 00:39:00,540 --> 00:39:02,640 S1: Yeah. Like on a straight man where it's good. Yeah. 815 00:39:03,060 --> 00:39:05,160 S3: Do you have a problem with that? Because if you do, 816 00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:07,049 S3: I'm not going to hit on you. But if you 817 00:39:07,050 --> 00:39:08,910 S3: do have a problem with that, it's not my job 818 00:39:08,910 --> 00:39:10,540 S3: to like, change your views. 819 00:39:10,650 --> 00:39:12,450 S1: Right? The problem is not with, you know, me 820 00:39:12,510 --> 00:39:15,600 S3: within them is how you see things. It's not about 821 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,590 S3: what you see is about how you see it. Yeah, 822 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,330 S3: how you see is always more important than what you see. 823 00:39:21,780 --> 00:39:23,460 S3: So I don't love that idea. I love that because 824 00:39:23,460 --> 00:39:27,660 S3: when my kids grow up, if my child is bisexual 825 00:39:27,660 --> 00:39:30,150 S3: or gay or whatever, you be, OK, yeah, I mean, 826 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,880 S3: of course I would. I would want to know how 827 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,520 S3: I can support. All right. Yeah, I want to know 828 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,370 S3: how I can support you the best way possible. I mean, 829 00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:41,010 S3: that's an example, but it could be anything else, right? 830 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,340 S3: I don't want my child to ever feel like whatever 831 00:39:44,340 --> 00:39:47,940 S3: he or she is going through or is is not 832 00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:51,150 S3: and cannot be accepted, because that's that's what like coming 833 00:39:51,150 --> 00:39:54,900 S3: back to my cousins. They feel like they cannot follow 834 00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:58,440 S3: their dreams. They cannot do this and that because it's 835 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,440 S3: not accepted. Right? But of course, this this lines to it. 836 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,340 S3: Love for sure. But if it's regarding your happiness and 837 00:40:05,340 --> 00:40:10,130 S3: your satisfaction with your life, then parents should be OK. 838 00:40:10,140 --> 00:40:11,969 S3: What to talk about? Like, why are they not being 839 00:40:11,969 --> 00:40:14,549 S3: open minded to talk about it? Absolutely. That's that's where 840 00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:15,029 S3: I'm coming in. 841 00:40:15,060 --> 00:40:17,969 S2: So to sum it up, I think happiness, your personal 842 00:40:17,969 --> 00:40:21,299 S2: level of happiness is very, very important to get to 843 00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:24,719 S2: that level. Seek help if you have to. Right? Don't 844 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,300 S2: be afraid to speak to people. And you know what? 845 00:40:27,300 --> 00:40:30,299 S2: I think men sometimes avoid asking for help because they 846 00:40:30,300 --> 00:40:32,819 S2: feel it is a sign of weakness. We are here 847 00:40:32,820 --> 00:40:34,000 S2: telling you that it's not. 848 00:40:34,020 --> 00:40:34,770 S3: No, it's not. 849 00:40:34,830 --> 00:40:37,410 S1: We have to change this. If you've got friends telling 850 00:40:37,410 --> 00:40:39,270 S1: you that you know men up or you know that 851 00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:42,660 S1: grow a pair or like, just call your pussy for 852 00:40:42,660 --> 00:40:45,299 S1: one thing of therapy, you need new friends. Yup. 853 00:40:46,170 --> 00:40:47,430 S3: Take us out of that circle 854 00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:50,050 S1: is louder for the people in the back, in your friend, 855 00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:53,190 S1: your new friends. Because honestly, one of the things that 856 00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:56,370 S1: stuck with me and my last conversation, Roger was just 857 00:40:56,370 --> 00:41:00,790 S1: him telling me that it's the people you surround yourself with. 858 00:41:01,110 --> 00:41:04,440 S1: That is the most important is the five people around 859 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,150 S1: because you're the average five around you. 860 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,989 S3: Mm hmm. So if you're hanging around with five assholes, assholes, 861 00:41:09,989 --> 00:41:12,810 S3: you'll be the sixth asshole. Don't do that. If you're 862 00:41:12,820 --> 00:41:18,780 S3: hanging around with five beautiful people that just open, non-judgmental, nurturing, 863 00:41:19,380 --> 00:41:20,670 S3: you're going to be the sixth one. 864 00:41:20,790 --> 00:41:23,609 S1: So if you hang around with five mommies, then you'll 865 00:41:23,610 --> 00:41:27,560 S1: be in Mommy, Mommy, my mommy and another. 866 00:41:30,530 --> 00:41:33,350 S2: OK, more of this at. So don't be an asshole, 867 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,380 S2: be a beautiful person. OK. Thank you so much for 868 00:41:36,380 --> 00:41:38,600 S2: tuning in once again, my name is Hazel. 869 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,970 S1: This is a fantastic conversation. I'm as I'm Jamie and 870 00:41:41,989 --> 00:41:42,650 S1: thank you so much 871 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:45,319 S3: for having me, ladies. 872 00:41:46,219 --> 00:41:46,759 S1: Appreciate it. 873 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,470 S2: OK, so don't forget to follow us on Instagram at 874 00:41:49,469 --> 00:41:52,520 S2: this clarity decor. OK? Drop us a comment anytime at all. 875 00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:54,560 S1: That's right, and you can check out the new episodes 876 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,380 S1: on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, me listen wherever you get your 877 00:41:57,380 --> 00:41:59,989 S1: podcasts from. Yep, drop us comment. If you've got any 878 00:42:00,010 --> 00:42:04,370 S1: old friends, you have us. Yeah, we're not assholes. I think, 879 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:05,540 S1: you know, we've been few people 880 00:42:05,540 --> 00:42:06,580 S3: know you guys like 881 00:42:06,620 --> 00:42:11,060 S1: you already. Yeah, I think so. Oh, I.