WEBVTT - What exactly is a green job? | EP 17

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<v Speaker 1>this is a C N. A podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Choosing your career feels like one of the biggest decisions

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<v Speaker 1>you make. While some people are lucky to just know

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<v Speaker 1>what they want to do, others do not. How do

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<v Speaker 1>you pick a career that is meaningful, makes an impact

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<v Speaker 1>on the world and also pays the bills. Welcome back

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<v Speaker 1>to the climate conversations with me. I'm your guest host

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<v Speaker 1>for today and I'm excited to be part of this initiative.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a year three undergraduate at the School of Law

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<v Speaker 1>of the Singapore Management University. Besides my law modules, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>also learning from Professor Winston Child on how technology can

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<v Speaker 1>be used to advance sustainability.

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<v Speaker 1>This course opened my eyes to the opportunities that exist

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<v Speaker 1>in a sustainability space. These opportunities are called green jobs,

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<v Speaker 1>which will be today's topic, but what are green jobs?

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<v Speaker 1>And could it be your calling

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<v Speaker 1>with me to discuss? Green jobs is MS. A well

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<v Speaker 1>known local environmentalists who runs the instagram page, the way

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<v Speaker 1>that while where she aims to make sustainability information more

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<v Speaker 1>accessible to 14,000 followers, she also works as a sustainability

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<v Speaker 1>consultant at Carbon

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Thank you for coming on today. Thanks

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<v Speaker 2>for having me. It's nice to meet you.

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<v Speaker 1>Many of my friends follow your work on instagram and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm very excited that I'm speaking to you today. You

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<v Speaker 1>are quite well known in this space, but many do

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<v Speaker 1>not really know that you have worked in a range

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<v Speaker 1>of green jobs as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Was your work in sustainability a journey of self discovery

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<v Speaker 1>or was it a childhood inspiration

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<v Speaker 2>for me growing up, Environmentalism has been a very big

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<v Speaker 2>part of my journey. I was very into animals and

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<v Speaker 2>conservation at a young age steve Irwin was my is

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<v Speaker 2>my childhood hero and ever since then I

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to pursue something in that field, be it

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<v Speaker 2>being a biologist and Ecologist. And frankly corporate sustainability never

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<v Speaker 2>occurred to me as a viable job opportunity until the

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<v Speaker 2>recent years. So it was until university where I took

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<v Speaker 2>up the undergraduate course of Environmental Studies at the National

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<v Speaker 2>Universe

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<v Speaker 2>City of Singapore. And I remember at that time this

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<v Speaker 2>was 2016, many people were very hesitant about doing sustainability

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<v Speaker 2>or environmentalism because they were like when you come out,

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<v Speaker 2>what what are you going to do? Are they really

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<v Speaker 2>opportunities and what is the employment rate of the course

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<v Speaker 2>like that, so it's exciting to be in this space

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<v Speaker 2>at this time.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you assure yourself while you're starting to cause

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<v Speaker 1>that

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<v Speaker 1>what you're currently learning is useful for the future, since

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<v Speaker 1>you had bills to pay parents to support and you

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<v Speaker 1>definitely want some would say luxuries in your life as well.

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<v Speaker 2>There were a lot of risks and chances that I

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<v Speaker 2>was taking, I knew that, but I felt that I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to learn something that really aligned with what I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to do growing up and it was also something

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<v Speaker 2>that I wanted to enjoy learning when I think about

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<v Speaker 2>environmental studies as a cause the very fact is it

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<v Speaker 2>is a complex, interdisciplinary. We took chemistry, we took statistics, geography, sociology,

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<v Speaker 2>political science, history,

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<v Speaker 2>the technicals really come in choosing one of these fields

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<v Speaker 2>and trying to see the environmental lens from maybe learning

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<v Speaker 2>about how the chemical compounds of certain greenhouse gasses or

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<v Speaker 2>even pollutants will affect ecosystems. Or even when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to thinking about things like environmental impact assessments,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not just the very technical ecological science that goes

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<v Speaker 2>into it, but also how do we take into account

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<v Speaker 2>the societal aspects of tearing down the forest or affecting

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<v Speaker 2>the ecosystems in a certain way,

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<v Speaker 1>linkedin has found that the fastest growing green skills are

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<v Speaker 1>used in jobs that aren't traditionally thought as green, such

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<v Speaker 1>as fleet managers and even data scientists with this. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you think that our definition of green jobs is too

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<v Speaker 1>narrow and it's so what is a green job to you?

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<v Speaker 2>So I did some research before coming to this and

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<v Speaker 2>I saw that the International Labor Organization defines green jobs

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<v Speaker 2>as decent jobs that contribute to preserve or restore the environment.

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<v Speaker 2>It can be in traditional sectors such as manufacturing and

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<v Speaker 2>construction or in new emerging green sectors such as renewable energy,

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<v Speaker 2>energy efficiency or even things like carbon services. So for me,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like we need to define green job mainly

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<v Speaker 2>because even when I ask somebody that question, can you

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<v Speaker 2>tell me what a green job is? People struggle or

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<v Speaker 2>tell me different answers. So if you are a person

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<v Speaker 2>working on sustainable packaging, does that count as a green job?

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<v Speaker 2>Some may say yes, but if you're someone working in

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<v Speaker 2>marketing for a renewable energy company, would you consider that

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<v Speaker 2>a green job? Some others will also say yes. So

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's just so many different types and I

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<v Speaker 2>saw a linkedin study also about green skills and green

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<v Speaker 2>jobs that

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<v Speaker 2>they define different jobs as either green greening or has

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<v Speaker 2>greening potential. And that gave me a lot to think

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<v Speaker 2>about what necessarily makes a job green or should every

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<v Speaker 2>job be a green job? So we definitely suffer from

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<v Speaker 2>issues with definition, but that doesn't ignore the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>there is a demand for people with some expertise in

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<v Speaker 2>sustainability in whatever form of shape that it takes.

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<v Speaker 1>So will you say that your current job as a

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<v Speaker 1>sustainability consultant is more of a case, like you're a

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<v Speaker 1>doctor where you diagnose what kind of environmental issues that

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<v Speaker 1>will occur? Do you think that is usually what you

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<v Speaker 1>do as a sustainability consultant? Or do you think it's

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<v Speaker 1>more multidisciplinary as you described?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it really depends. And this goes back to

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<v Speaker 2>your initial question on what is a green job, Right.

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<v Speaker 2>When you think about sustainability consultant, I've had friends who

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<v Speaker 2>asked me what does that mean? You know, because sustainable

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<v Speaker 2>finance is such a big thing over the news now,

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<v Speaker 2>They asked me, do you do investment analysis or are

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<v Speaker 2>you on the ground at a construction site testing water

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<v Speaker 2>And it gave me the idea that there's not a

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<v Speaker 2>very in depth understanding of why

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<v Speaker 2>sustainability consultant or someone that was a sustainability consultant do

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<v Speaker 2>so for me at least I work very closely with

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<v Speaker 2>clients to think about sustainability and decarbonization. So Unravel Carbon

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<v Speaker 2>is an enterprise software for companies to track and reduce

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<v Speaker 2>their carbon emissions and we specialize in ASIA's businesses and

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<v Speaker 2>supply chains. So we help companies measure track and reduce

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<v Speaker 2>their emissions in ASia pacific.

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<v Speaker 2>So for me as a sustainability consultant it's working very

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<v Speaker 2>closely with clients to understand what does the carbon profile

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<v Speaker 2>look like for this company in this sector and looking

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<v Speaker 2>to measure their emissions accurately and then using those insights

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<v Speaker 2>and helping them make business decisions in the past. In N. G. O. S.

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<v Speaker 2>I've worked on things like social media campaigns to educate

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<v Speaker 2>people about human wildlife conflict. I've

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<v Speaker 2>also analyze banks and their environmental impact and also worked

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<v Speaker 2>on all sorts of energy related work. So it's a

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<v Speaker 2>whole range of things and it requires so many disciplines

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<v Speaker 2>and you learning on the job also because sustainability those

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<v Speaker 2>issues are not static things change. So it's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of continuous learning because this industry or this movement of

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<v Speaker 2>this topic is going to grow in the years to

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<v Speaker 2>come

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<v Speaker 1>considering that you have recently joined Unravel Carbon. I believe

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<v Speaker 1>that you have currently had in mind some specializations or

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<v Speaker 1>some areas in which you are more passionate about. If

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<v Speaker 1>you have any. Do you mind sharing these specializations and

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<v Speaker 1>how you're going to work towards them?

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, I knew that I've always wanted to work in

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<v Speaker 2>the environmental space, whatever that looks like

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<v Speaker 2>while that being said, I am constantly on the lookout

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<v Speaker 2>for activities that align with my worldview of wanting to

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<v Speaker 2>do no harm or make an impact on the planet,

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<v Speaker 2>but choosing a career is not as easy as finding

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<v Speaker 2>something that aligns with your values. You need to think

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<v Speaker 2>about what you get to do at this job. Do

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<v Speaker 2>you get to learn what you want to learn? And

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<v Speaker 2>is it paying the bills? Are there other priorities in

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<v Speaker 2>your life that you have to consider and trying to

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<v Speaker 2>think of specialization to

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<v Speaker 2>23 years in the industry? It's a bit hard for

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<v Speaker 2>me to figure that out because the industry is also evolving.

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<v Speaker 2>So for me at this point, where can I learn

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<v Speaker 2>and where can I really be involved in work that

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<v Speaker 2>allows me to feel a pulse of what companies are

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<v Speaker 2>really thinking about sustainability and trying to build my skills

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<v Speaker 2>from friends from people from my family, they always give

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<v Speaker 2>me the advice that your interest and priorities may change

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<v Speaker 2>over time. So at this point, what do you feel

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<v Speaker 2>like doing

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<v Speaker 2>and why not go and give it a try

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Adrian Tan and I'm Christina robert. We are

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<v Speaker 1>the host of a new podcast called working, we're here

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<v Speaker 1>to get into the essential things that no one tells

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<v Speaker 1>you about working in company culture, from office politics to

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with burnout. If you've ever wanted to eavesdrop on

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<v Speaker 1>an interesting conversation by the water cooler. This podcast is

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<v Speaker 1>for you look out for our episodes wherever you get

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<v Speaker 1>your podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>given the overlaps between your work and environmental activism on

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<v Speaker 1>the world and well, I do have a particular career

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<v Speaker 1>goal or will career goal be more defined by the

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<v Speaker 1>impact you admit in his sustainability space?

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<v Speaker 2>I look at goals beyond my career and these are

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<v Speaker 2>life goals or values that I want to live my

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<v Speaker 2>life by thinking about sustainability of course is a principle

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<v Speaker 2>and underneath that their values like, you know, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to minimize my impact, but at the same time contribute

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<v Speaker 2>to something

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<v Speaker 2>that is building towards, I guess a better world, climate wise,

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<v Speaker 2>so doing the weird and while where on one hand

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about climate science and making them accessible to people.

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<v Speaker 2>And at the same time joining a team like Unravel

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<v Speaker 2>Carbon where they're developing technology to help companies d carbon eyes,

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<v Speaker 2>those are two activities that contribute to this goal of mine.

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<v Speaker 2>And

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<v Speaker 2>it just so happens that working as a sustainability consultant

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<v Speaker 2>has become my career. So I would like to think

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<v Speaker 2>that the impact that I make in all the different

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<v Speaker 2>aspects of my life, including my career would contribute to

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<v Speaker 2>the bigger picture of me caring for the planet in

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<v Speaker 2>my own ways. Because as an individual, I'm also not

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<v Speaker 2>just my job, I am a friend, I'm an

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<v Speaker 2>environmentalist, I'm an artist, I'm so many things, but I

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<v Speaker 2>want all those pieces of the puzzle to fit within

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<v Speaker 2>certain values, such that I know every time that I

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<v Speaker 2>spend working at this job or outside, I'm able to

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<v Speaker 2>live a life that I'm happy with and that I

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<v Speaker 2>can be very proud of

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<v Speaker 1>if you have one thing to share about yourself that

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<v Speaker 1>is outside of the work you do, perhaps your hobbies

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<v Speaker 1>or interests, what we like your listeners to know.

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<v Speaker 2>Um I would love my listeners to know that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>also a very creative person, not just because of the

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<v Speaker 2>work that I do, but I love experimenting with craft

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<v Speaker 2>with music. I remember during the pandemic, I even tried

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<v Speaker 2>to learn how to DJ, because it was something I've

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<v Speaker 2>always wanted to learn and that reignited the whole creative

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<v Speaker 2>part of me that I feel like I've never had

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<v Speaker 2>enough time to properly delve into. What

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<v Speaker 1>do you think a meaningful green job looks like?

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<v Speaker 2>Just because you are in a green job doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 2>that it will automatically take all your checkboxes when you're

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<v Speaker 2>looking for a job. There's just so many considerations for me,

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<v Speaker 2>it so happens that climate impact is one of those

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<v Speaker 2>tick boxes

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<v Speaker 2>that I want to check off is this place gonna

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<v Speaker 2>not just allow me to use my skills, but also

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<v Speaker 2>develop some skills that I think could be meaningful in

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<v Speaker 2>trying to contribute to, I guess a positive impact on

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<v Speaker 2>the planet. So this could be things like

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<v Speaker 2>opportunities to understand international negotiations, opportunities to see the inner

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<v Speaker 2>workings of a sustainability unit of a company, or even

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<v Speaker 2>things like opportunities to be doing field work. Those definitions

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<v Speaker 2>at least are just some things that I feel I've considered,

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<v Speaker 2>but also I keep every door open in it, if

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<v Speaker 2>I find that this work more or less align

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<v Speaker 2>everything I want out of a job that's meaningful and

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<v Speaker 2>it's such a subjective thing,

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<v Speaker 1>I think you've made a very good point about creating

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<v Speaker 1>meaningful green jobs because there is quite an unfortunate stereotype

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<v Speaker 1>that green jobs only exist to boost the reputation of

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<v Speaker 1>the company. How will you respond to such a suspicion?

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<v Speaker 2>Greenwashing is definitely something that people are worried about and

0:13:37.010 --> 0:13:39.780
<v Speaker 2>it's a kind of risk that of course companies are

0:13:39.780 --> 0:13:43.220
<v Speaker 2>thinking about in the news, you see so many instances

0:13:43.230 --> 0:13:46.250
<v Speaker 2>of company a doing something and then get called out

0:13:46.250 --> 0:13:51.890
<v Speaker 2>for greenwashing and oftentimes greenwashing is about sustainability claims. So

0:13:51.890 --> 0:13:54.940
<v Speaker 2>some might feel like perhaps when you're working on

0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:59.580
<v Speaker 2>sustainability, companies want to look green but might not be

0:13:59.580 --> 0:14:03.070
<v Speaker 2>actually doing the work of being green, which results in

0:14:03.070 --> 0:14:07.580
<v Speaker 2>some perception of what working in sustainability looks like. So

0:14:07.590 --> 0:14:10.320
<v Speaker 2>I would say that of course with that kind of

0:14:10.330 --> 0:14:14.530
<v Speaker 2>mainstream awareness that take, it's not surprising to me because

0:14:14.530 --> 0:14:16.300
<v Speaker 2>I do hear that when people ask me what do

0:14:16.300 --> 0:14:17.359
<v Speaker 2>you do for a living,

0:14:17.620 --> 0:14:19.520
<v Speaker 2>and that brings me back to my point that I

0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.050
<v Speaker 2>hope that there's a greater awareness of the different kinds

0:14:22.050 --> 0:14:25.770
<v Speaker 2>of sustainability related jobs out there, because there really is

0:14:25.770 --> 0:14:29.490
<v Speaker 2>a plethora of so many different opportunities that contribute to

0:14:29.490 --> 0:14:31.840
<v Speaker 2>sustainability in different ways if

0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm interested to join a sustainability related role, but I'm

0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:38.560
<v Speaker 1>worried that

0:14:38.950 --> 0:14:42.800
<v Speaker 1>the company is just using me to green wash its operations.

0:14:42.810 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 1>What advice would you give me to, sort of check

0:14:45.970 --> 0:14:51.030
<v Speaker 1>whether the company is using my skills in a meaningful manner?

0:14:51.470 --> 0:14:54.260
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a very big question and I think it's

0:14:54.260 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 2>a very valid thing to ask because even when I'm

0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.560
<v Speaker 2>looking out for jobs, there is a small part of

0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.330
<v Speaker 2>my brain that goes, is this a meaningful role. Is

0:15:03.330 --> 0:15:06.340
<v Speaker 2>this a role where I can take action as someone

0:15:06.340 --> 0:15:09.860
<v Speaker 2>just looking out for job opportunities? I would say that

0:15:09.870 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 2>definitely with any job application, even if it's in sustainability

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.540
<v Speaker 2>or in something else, I always do my

0:15:16.550 --> 0:15:20.080
<v Speaker 2>due diligence. So I research, I read about the company's

0:15:20.090 --> 0:15:25.040
<v Speaker 2>activities in sustainability and sometimes I even actively go and

0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.050
<v Speaker 2>look for, were there any controversy is, and how did

0:15:28.050 --> 0:15:32.270
<v Speaker 2>they resolve that? Because sustainability is not easy for any

0:15:32.270 --> 0:15:35.360
<v Speaker 2>company and they're bound to be mistakes, but more importantly

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.210
<v Speaker 2>for me when evaluating that is So how did they

0:15:38.210 --> 0:15:40.590
<v Speaker 2>go about doing that? How are they resolving it? I've

0:15:40.590 --> 0:15:41.630
<v Speaker 2>spoken to

0:15:41.810 --> 0:15:45.260
<v Speaker 2>so many people working in sustainability before I decided on

0:15:45.260 --> 0:15:47.430
<v Speaker 2>any job that I would take or ask them, What

0:15:47.430 --> 0:15:49.300
<v Speaker 2>do you think about this, What have you heard about

0:15:49.300 --> 0:15:52.040
<v Speaker 2>this role? This is my impression of this role. Do

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.600
<v Speaker 2>you have a better understanding of what that looks like?

0:15:54.610 --> 0:15:57.350
<v Speaker 2>And also confirming that even with your interviewers, you can

0:15:57.350 --> 0:16:01.410
<v Speaker 2>ask questions, you can ask them about their sustainability efforts

0:16:01.410 --> 0:16:04.070
<v Speaker 2>and what you get involved in and I think over

0:16:04.070 --> 0:16:05.320
<v Speaker 2>time with practice,

0:16:05.330 --> 0:16:08.180
<v Speaker 2>you are better able to see is this role really

0:16:08.180 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 2>for me is what they're telling me to do really

0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.300
<v Speaker 2>for me. And is that something that I find meaningful?

0:16:13.310 --> 0:16:17.440
<v Speaker 2>Because what's meaningful is very different from everybody

0:16:17.450 --> 0:16:21.150
<v Speaker 1>throughout this whole podcast, you gave some good advice on

0:16:21.150 --> 0:16:24.900
<v Speaker 1>the mindsets. Once you have, when venturing into green jobs,

0:16:24.910 --> 0:16:28.850
<v Speaker 1>perhaps you can share more concrete career advice,

0:16:29.210 --> 0:16:32.570
<v Speaker 1>such as what majors or what causes one should take

0:16:32.580 --> 0:16:36.410
<v Speaker 1>if he or she is interested in venturing into green jobs,

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.930
<v Speaker 2>I can tell people or at least share about how

0:16:39.930 --> 0:16:41.790
<v Speaker 2>I got to where I am today or what did

0:16:41.790 --> 0:16:45.480
<v Speaker 2>I do to get here? I chose Environmental Studies as

0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.830
<v Speaker 2>a major because I felt that that route will give

0:16:48.830 --> 0:16:54.160
<v Speaker 2>me a foundation of understanding sustainability from a science point

0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.900
<v Speaker 2>of view from there. I took up a lot of

0:16:56.910 --> 0:17:03.420
<v Speaker 2>internship experiences which continuously hones my skills and my understanding

0:17:03.420 --> 0:17:04.810
<v Speaker 2>of what does

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.530
<v Speaker 2>a career or what does a job really look for

0:17:08.540 --> 0:17:10.850
<v Speaker 2>in a fresh grad like me,

0:17:11.410 --> 0:17:15.820
<v Speaker 2>I guess stress test your hypothesis on what a green

0:17:15.820 --> 0:17:19.500
<v Speaker 2>job is looking out for by really trying all kinds

0:17:19.500 --> 0:17:23.340
<v Speaker 2>of internships and opportunities that you can, because that will

0:17:23.340 --> 0:17:26.060
<v Speaker 2>give you a better understanding of what you're looking for

0:17:26.060 --> 0:17:27.369
<v Speaker 2>once you graduate,

0:17:30.060 --> 0:17:33.400
<v Speaker 1>a big thank you to my guest and thanks to

0:17:33.410 --> 0:17:36.220
<v Speaker 1>all of you for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed

0:17:36.230 --> 0:17:40.530
<v Speaker 1>this episode. Do remember to subscribe and like this podcast. So,

0:17:40.530 --> 0:17:43.850
<v Speaker 1>you know, when a new episode drops, you can find

0:17:43.850 --> 0:17:49.070
<v Speaker 1>CNN's climate and sustainability coverage online at CNN dot asia.

0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.970
<v Speaker 1>The team behind this podcast is Jacqueline, chan, Joanne, chan

0:17:52.980 --> 0:17:57.060
<v Speaker 1>daniel lee and Christina robert signing off.