1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,310 Speaker 1: This is a C. N. A. Podcast. 2 00:00:03,740 --> 00:00:04,110 Speaker 1: Can 3 00:00:04,110 --> 00:00:07,890 Speaker 2: you give us your quick thoughts on the following credit cards? 4 00:00:07,900 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: This is not your money buy 5 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:10,900 Speaker 2: now pay later 6 00:00:10,910 --> 00:00:13,140 Speaker 1: by only you have provided for it. 7 00:00:13,150 --> 00:00:14,750 Speaker 2: YOLO spending. 8 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,020 Speaker 1: You live only once you do want to live in 9 00:00:17,020 --> 00:00:17,419 Speaker 1: debt 10 00:00:17,430 --> 00:00:19,010 Speaker 2: debt spiral. 11 00:00:19,020 --> 00:00:21,540 Speaker 1: You want to climb up. You have to make the 12 00:00:21,550 --> 00:00:22,740 Speaker 1: effort good 13 00:00:22,739 --> 00:00:24,220 Speaker 2: debt versus bad debt. 14 00:00:24,230 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: All debts, you must know that you can pay before 15 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:27,380 Speaker 1: you take on. 16 00:00:27,390 --> 00:00:28,460 Speaker 2: Thank you. 17 00:00:43,060 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on money talks. I'm Sara al Khaldi. 18 00:00:46,170 --> 00:00:49,580 Speaker 2: Have you seen something online that you simply had to 19 00:00:49,580 --> 00:00:52,260 Speaker 2: have and bought it? Even if you didn't have the 20 00:00:52,260 --> 00:00:55,370 Speaker 2: cash for it? That's where a range of credit comes 21 00:00:55,370 --> 00:00:58,780 Speaker 2: in credit cards installment payments and by now 22 00:00:58,795 --> 00:01:02,295 Speaker 2: now pay later schemes. There are so many options. If 23 00:01:02,295 --> 00:01:05,435 Speaker 2: you really want to make that purchase. What we may 24 00:01:05,435 --> 00:01:07,694 Speaker 2: not know is that it could come at a heavy 25 00:01:07,694 --> 00:01:11,115 Speaker 2: cost in the end pushing back payments can become a 26 00:01:11,115 --> 00:01:14,385 Speaker 2: pile of debt that can also get out of control. 27 00:01:14,395 --> 00:01:18,115 Speaker 2: So what do a few late credit card payments turn 28 00:01:18,125 --> 00:01:21,705 Speaker 2: into a serious problem? What can you do when you 29 00:01:21,705 --> 00:01:25,115 Speaker 2: fall behind on your bills? And it's all debt really 30 00:01:25,115 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: bad 31 00:01:26,050 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: with us to talk all about. This is Tan Women 32 00:01:28,810 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: of credit counseling Singapore. It's an independent nonprofit social service 33 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:39,700 Speaker 2: agency that provides financial counseling and debt management services. Thanks 34 00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:42,420 Speaker 2: so much Raymond for joining us today and thanks giving 35 00:01:42,420 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: us your time 36 00:01:44,750 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: now. I'm sure you've heard all kinds of stories when 37 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,270 Speaker 2: it comes to debt problems, especially with the work that 38 00:01:50,270 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: you do. What was the biggest debt issue that you've encountered, 39 00:01:56,290 --> 00:01:59,090 Speaker 1: The debt size. Right. I think it was about two 40 00:01:59,090 --> 00:02:03,500 Speaker 1: million unsecured borrowing. So it's a lot of money, mortgage 41 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:06,490 Speaker 1: and everything. It's about two million. And in fact 42 00:02:06,505 --> 00:02:10,905 Speaker 1: We have a handful of people going $12 million dollars 43 00:02:10,915 --> 00:02:13,955 Speaker 1: that we actually managed to work out repayment arrangement for them. 44 00:02:13,965 --> 00:02:16,514 Speaker 1: It's a big commitment for them to pay of course, 45 00:02:16,514 --> 00:02:19,905 Speaker 1: with the support of their families, not the families members 46 00:02:19,905 --> 00:02:22,695 Speaker 1: helping them to pay, but the family members will take 47 00:02:22,695 --> 00:02:25,544 Speaker 1: care of the household expenses so that the person can 48 00:02:25,544 --> 00:02:28,255 Speaker 1: use his own earnings to make the repayment. 49 00:02:28,490 --> 00:02:32,550 Speaker 1: Yes, they do $2 million dollars um sums related to gambling. 50 00:02:32,550 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: As you know, once you touch on gambling, it's a 51 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: lot of money and of course some of them, they 52 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,540 Speaker 1: say they lost in stock market, so they punch in 53 00:02:39,540 --> 00:02:41,859 Speaker 1: that sense. So once you touch on this type of 54 00:02:41,870 --> 00:02:46,620 Speaker 1: investment or gambling, that size is usually very huge. Generally 55 00:02:46,620 --> 00:02:49,630 Speaker 1: speaking bigger than other people who are more like spending 56 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,820 Speaker 1: or do the job or due to other reasons? 57 00:02:53,260 --> 00:02:58,930 Speaker 2: How often do you come across people with serious debt problems? 58 00:02:58,930 --> 00:03:01,209 Speaker 2: And is there a certain type of person that would 59 00:03:01,210 --> 00:03:04,770 Speaker 2: fall into this or do they come from all walks 60 00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: of life? All walks of life? Being in debt doesn't 61 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,770 Speaker 1: mean that the persons are not educated or not financially savvy. 62 00:03:11,780 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: We see clients from people who do not have a 63 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,139 Speaker 1: lot of education 64 00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:21,900 Speaker 1: to people who are university graduates and post grads. We 65 00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:25,380 Speaker 1: see people who are earning not a lot of money. 66 00:03:25,389 --> 00:03:28,370 Speaker 1: There were people who used to earn better income that 67 00:03:28,370 --> 00:03:31,769 Speaker 1: qualify for credit cards and subsequently, because of employment issue 68 00:03:31,770 --> 00:03:33,350 Speaker 1: and whatever other issue, 69 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: Their income drops substantially. So when they came to us 70 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,090 Speaker 1: they may be earning less than $2,000 a month, but 71 00:03:40,090 --> 00:03:42,500 Speaker 1: we also have people who earns five figures a month 72 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:44,770 Speaker 1: to come to see us. Yes, it's really all walks 73 00:03:44,770 --> 00:03:47,670 Speaker 1: of life because the thing is getting to that is 74 00:03:47,670 --> 00:03:50,370 Speaker 1: normally not due to just one reason. It's normally a 75 00:03:50,370 --> 00:03:51,490 Speaker 1: few reasons 76 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,450 Speaker 1: it could be employment related meaning Picard when times is 77 00:03:56,450 --> 00:03:59,490 Speaker 1: not good, just like covid time, people are asked to 78 00:03:59,490 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: work three days week off for this week and your 79 00:04:02,650 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: income will drop substantially, but commitments already made and it's 80 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:08,010 Speaker 1: good spending 81 00:04:08,010 --> 00:04:09,830 Speaker 2: is already high or is 82 00:04:09,830 --> 00:04:13,100 Speaker 1: already there. But it's more of the commitments spending, you 83 00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:15,650 Speaker 1: can do something about it to a certain extent, 84 00:04:15,890 --> 00:04:19,250 Speaker 1: but commitments, meaning that you already taken up a few 85 00:04:19,250 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: loans that you need to service that we will have 86 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,780 Speaker 1: to continue to pay even during covid time. So if 87 00:04:25,779 --> 00:04:29,619 Speaker 1: I have very high commitments, I will find very challenging 88 00:04:29,620 --> 00:04:32,850 Speaker 1: if I have a pay cut. But this is of 89 00:04:32,850 --> 00:04:34,100 Speaker 1: course job loss 90 00:04:34,510 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: and if I do not really have a lot of 91 00:04:37,010 --> 00:04:38,910 Speaker 1: savings that can see me through until I get my 92 00:04:38,910 --> 00:04:42,650 Speaker 1: next job, that means people will rely on credit facilities 93 00:04:42,650 --> 00:04:45,330 Speaker 1: to take care of their living expenses of course there 94 00:04:45,330 --> 00:04:50,849 Speaker 1: are other reasons like overspending basically spending without planning and 95 00:04:50,850 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: of course there are also some unfortunate reasons that could 96 00:04:53,490 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: be due to a sudden medical bill that is really 97 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,989 Speaker 1: huge and perhaps there's no sufficient insurance coverage or no 98 00:04:59,990 --> 00:05:03,130 Speaker 1: coverage at all. There are also other reasons like 99 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,729 Speaker 1: the person is really kind. So the friends of the 100 00:05:07,730 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: family members come and ask him for a loan and 101 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,220 Speaker 1: then he doesn't have savings himself but he wants to help. 102 00:05:15,230 --> 00:05:19,060 Speaker 1: So he take credit facilities to give up the loan 103 00:05:19,070 --> 00:05:23,349 Speaker 1: or agreed to be a personal guarantor. Now the friend 104 00:05:23,350 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: of the family members may not be a bad person 105 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,180 Speaker 1: who borrowed and didn't want to repay. 106 00:05:28,350 --> 00:05:31,500 Speaker 1: But the problem is the person really got no way 107 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:34,020 Speaker 1: to repay you, but you are the person who took 108 00:05:34,020 --> 00:05:37,170 Speaker 1: up the loan, You are the personal guarantor, the creditors 109 00:05:37,170 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: will come after you because you are the one who 110 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:40,110 Speaker 1: borrow it 111 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,070 Speaker 2: here in Singapore. A lot of us have that mortgage 112 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: payments for example, some have personal loans for renovations, weddings, 113 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,220 Speaker 2: credit cards are quite common. So when does that 114 00:05:53,230 --> 00:05:57,510 Speaker 1: become a problem? Pretty much everyone borrows that become an 115 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,969 Speaker 1: issue is that the outstanding amount is increasing over time. 116 00:06:01,980 --> 00:06:03,890 Speaker 1: That means I'm going more and more that is 117 00:06:03,890 --> 00:06:04,930 Speaker 2: taking up more 118 00:06:04,940 --> 00:06:07,469 Speaker 1: because I'm boring more and 119 00:06:07,700 --> 00:06:10,300 Speaker 1: it will be a serious problem when I can't even 120 00:06:10,300 --> 00:06:13,950 Speaker 1: service my debts or I'm actually borrowing to service my debts? 121 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: That is really a problem. And if my creditors start 122 00:06:17,290 --> 00:06:20,500 Speaker 1: calling me that is a serious problem, 123 00:06:20,670 --> 00:06:22,970 Speaker 1: then of course the most serious one is when my 124 00:06:22,970 --> 00:06:26,900 Speaker 1: creditors actually take legal actions against me because of me 125 00:06:26,900 --> 00:06:30,900 Speaker 1: not making payment promptly or not making any payment at all. 126 00:06:30,910 --> 00:06:34,220 Speaker 1: So there are different stages. But the red flag is 127 00:06:34,230 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: when I look at my money statements, it keeps growing 128 00:06:37,529 --> 00:06:41,530 Speaker 1: and I actually have to use credit to pay for 129 00:06:41,529 --> 00:06:45,370 Speaker 1: my living expenses before my next paycheck. But of course 130 00:06:45,370 --> 00:06:48,820 Speaker 1: I said, once the phone starts coming, that is definitely 131 00:06:48,830 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: that 132 00:06:49,550 --> 00:06:54,730 Speaker 2: you talked about the reasons why people find themselves in 133 00:06:54,740 --> 00:07:00,419 Speaker 2: debt problems. Are there similarities among the people who have 134 00:07:00,430 --> 00:07:03,510 Speaker 2: this problem? Because you mentioned they could come from all 135 00:07:03,510 --> 00:07:07,860 Speaker 2: walks of life, they can have big paychecks from your 136 00:07:07,860 --> 00:07:09,770 Speaker 2: experience or their similarity. 137 00:07:09,780 --> 00:07:12,430 Speaker 1: I can say that they really have a similarity because 138 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,210 Speaker 1: it can be arranged in terms of their earning capacity 139 00:07:15,220 --> 00:07:17,110 Speaker 1: in terms of their education level. 140 00:07:17,350 --> 00:07:20,780 Speaker 1: But I would say the majority of them, 60, of them, 141 00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:25,230 Speaker 1: there are more males than females really why the men 142 00:07:25,230 --> 00:07:30,150 Speaker 1: tends to spend on big items, like maintaining a car. Yes. 143 00:07:30,150 --> 00:07:32,980 Speaker 1: And maintaining current Singapore is really expensive 144 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:38,210 Speaker 2: increasingly now we are seeing buy now pay later schemes. 145 00:07:38,220 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: On one hand, it helps people who are trying to 146 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,230 Speaker 2: make a big purchase without really burning a hole in 147 00:07:45,230 --> 00:07:48,510 Speaker 2: their pocket. Interest free is what they 148 00:07:48,595 --> 00:07:52,055 Speaker 2: call it as well. But has it led to overspending 149 00:07:52,055 --> 00:07:55,985 Speaker 2: here in Singapore and how can we protect ourselves from 150 00:07:55,985 --> 00:07:57,615 Speaker 2: spending too much? 151 00:07:57,625 --> 00:08:00,305 Speaker 1: We don't really have data on this B. M. P. L. 152 00:08:00,315 --> 00:08:03,735 Speaker 1: And my understanding buy now pay later at this juncture. 153 00:08:03,745 --> 00:08:06,575 Speaker 1: I don't think there are many expensive items that you 154 00:08:06,575 --> 00:08:09,475 Speaker 1: can really buy now. Pay later. That said 155 00:08:09,650 --> 00:08:13,060 Speaker 1: even small amounts can become a problem. If I buy 156 00:08:13,060 --> 00:08:16,090 Speaker 1: many things under B. M. P. L. It could add 157 00:08:16,100 --> 00:08:20,540 Speaker 1: up to a substantial amount if I buy one item 158 00:08:20,550 --> 00:08:24,630 Speaker 1: $300 to repay over three months, $100 per month. I 159 00:08:24,630 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: can not a problem. Then I go and buy another 160 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,910 Speaker 1: item $600 spread over three months. So it's $200. I 161 00:08:31,910 --> 00:08:34,780 Speaker 1: think I still can manage 200 but I forgot already 162 00:08:34,780 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: committed 100 then now 200 it becomes 300. 163 00:08:38,660 --> 00:08:41,190 Speaker 1: If I'm not very clear about my cash flow position 164 00:08:41,190 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: and things like that. In reality maybe I can only 165 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,090 Speaker 1: commit up to 100, but now I got $300 to 166 00:08:48,090 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: service and I continue to spend as per normal then 167 00:08:52,290 --> 00:08:54,730 Speaker 1: I may find I may not have enough money. You 168 00:08:54,730 --> 00:08:56,700 Speaker 1: know then the thing is that if I got savings, 169 00:08:56,700 --> 00:08:58,449 Speaker 1: okay I used my savings to paper. If I don't 170 00:08:58,450 --> 00:09:01,390 Speaker 1: have savings that I may actually find money too tight 171 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:02,750 Speaker 1: or money not enough. 172 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,590 Speaker 1: So making too many commitments at one shot during a 173 00:09:06,590 --> 00:09:10,050 Speaker 1: short period of time it can become a problem. So 174 00:09:10,050 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: it's not that you can't buy things. It's just that 175 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,010 Speaker 1: when you buy you need to know do you have 176 00:09:14,020 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: the money to service it? If you buy it on 177 00:09:16,370 --> 00:09:17,870 Speaker 1: installment payment? You 178 00:09:17,870 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 2: talked about when debt is a problem? And the red 179 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,510 Speaker 2: flags that we have to watch out for? What point 180 00:09:25,510 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: does it become out of control that you really need 181 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,300 Speaker 2: to go seek help 182 00:09:29,540 --> 00:09:33,490 Speaker 1: if I really notice my outstanding keep going up and 183 00:09:33,490 --> 00:09:37,420 Speaker 1: not down. I should be sitting down to take stock 184 00:09:37,429 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: and see whether I need to stick up or not. 185 00:09:39,290 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: If I receive a phone call from my creditors definitely 186 00:09:43,490 --> 00:09:46,179 Speaker 1: value and do something about it or the fact that 187 00:09:46,190 --> 00:09:49,790 Speaker 1: I need to apply for new credit facilities in order 188 00:09:49,790 --> 00:09:51,620 Speaker 1: to take care of my expenses 189 00:09:51,635 --> 00:09:54,795 Speaker 1: to make payment to my assisting credit facilities. That is 190 00:09:54,795 --> 00:09:57,825 Speaker 1: definitely time to do something about it. 191 00:09:57,835 --> 00:09:59,145 Speaker 2: What can they do? 192 00:09:59,155 --> 00:10:01,685 Speaker 1: Of course they can come forward to credit counseling. Singapore 193 00:10:01,695 --> 00:10:05,345 Speaker 1: for assistance. We hold a weekly talk on how to 194 00:10:05,345 --> 00:10:08,035 Speaker 1: manage a debt problem. Every week we have an english 195 00:10:08,035 --> 00:10:08,610 Speaker 1: version 196 00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: either once to twice a month. We have a chinese 197 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,100 Speaker 1: version is free of charge. Go to our website www 198 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:18,739 Speaker 1: dot c C S dot org dot S G. We 199 00:10:18,740 --> 00:10:21,890 Speaker 1: will talk about the dues and the don's. We'll talk 200 00:10:21,890 --> 00:10:24,689 Speaker 1: about what are the options available to address the debt 201 00:10:24,715 --> 00:10:29,495 Speaker 1: problem. We also talk about if I can't service my debts. 202 00:10:29,505 --> 00:10:34,065 Speaker 1: What possible collection actions I may face. But assuming after 203 00:10:34,075 --> 00:10:36,554 Speaker 1: attended to talk, you are still confused or you would 204 00:10:36,554 --> 00:10:39,135 Speaker 1: like to speak to someone just to get a new 205 00:10:39,135 --> 00:10:42,895 Speaker 1: treated party opinion. You are most welcome to fill up 206 00:10:42,905 --> 00:10:46,425 Speaker 1: the counseling request package so you can have a private 207 00:10:46,425 --> 00:10:48,595 Speaker 1: session with our credit counselor. 208 00:10:48,900 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: And the credit counselor will help you to stop take 209 00:10:51,809 --> 00:10:55,350 Speaker 1: and work with the borrower to draw up a monthly 210 00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: living expense budget and help them to work out a 211 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: repayment arrangement to their creditors. We will then drop a 212 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: proposal to submit to his creditors on his behalf 213 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,710 Speaker 1: and then the creditors will then decide whether they are 214 00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:13,460 Speaker 1: prepared to accept what he proposed if the creditors except 215 00:11:13,460 --> 00:11:16,580 Speaker 1: what he proposed then now the ball is in his court. 216 00:11:16,590 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: He just need to make payment according to what he 217 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,580 Speaker 1: has proposed and as long as you make the payment 218 00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:25,020 Speaker 1: in full on time every month, 219 00:11:25,230 --> 00:11:27,530 Speaker 1: he can see himself become debt free a few years 220 00:11:27,530 --> 00:11:28,900 Speaker 1: down the road. But at the 221 00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:29,939 Speaker 2: end of it, you still 222 00:11:29,940 --> 00:11:32,380 Speaker 1: need to pay the debt. Of course people who chose 223 00:11:32,380 --> 00:11:34,349 Speaker 1: not to pay their debts. They will have to face 224 00:11:34,350 --> 00:11:39,060 Speaker 1: consequences meaning facing legal actions that includes being made a bankrupt. 225 00:11:43,490 --> 00:11:46,550 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Adrian Tan and I'm Christina robert. We are 226 00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:48,390 Speaker 1: the host of a new podcast called 227 00:11:48,390 --> 00:11:50,540 Speaker 2: working. we're here to get into the essential 228 00:11:50,540 --> 00:11:52,260 Speaker 1: things that no one tells you about 229 00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:53,220 Speaker 2: working in company 230 00:11:53,220 --> 00:11:54,980 Speaker 1: culture. From office politics to 231 00:11:54,980 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: dealing with burnout. 232 00:11:56,370 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: If you've ever wanted to eavesdrop on an interesting conversation 233 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,780 Speaker 1: by the water cooler. This podcast 234 00:12:01,780 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 2: is for you look 235 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,689 Speaker 1: out for our episodes wherever you get your podcast, 236 00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:12,620 Speaker 2: some people might think, oh I have a debt problem, 237 00:12:12,620 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: let me just file for bankruptcy. What are the implications? 238 00:12:15,730 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: Okay, I think bankruptcy should be seen as the last 239 00:12:18,809 --> 00:12:21,690 Speaker 1: resort to manage the debt problem. If a person have 240 00:12:21,690 --> 00:12:24,210 Speaker 1: a debt problem, I would strongly suggest that the person 241 00:12:24,210 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: find alternative solutions If all solutions has been explored and 242 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:33,010 Speaker 1: didn't work, of course the person may want to consider bankruptcy. 243 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,459 Speaker 1: Other solutions include talking to your creditors directly. Some creditors 244 00:12:38,460 --> 00:12:41,980 Speaker 1: may offer you their own in house debt relief plan. 245 00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:44,750 Speaker 1: If that helps, then there's no need to go for bankruptcy. 246 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,829 Speaker 1: But assuming you can't work things out with all your 247 00:12:47,830 --> 00:12:50,390 Speaker 1: creditors and you have nothing that you can sell to 248 00:12:50,390 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: raise funds. Of course you can come forward to credit 249 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: counseling Singapore if you are suitable and you want it, 250 00:12:56,250 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: we can put up a debt management program. But assuming 251 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,710 Speaker 1: the person can't even worked out a debt management program 252 00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:06,610 Speaker 1: to us and no other ways then of course bankruptcy 253 00:13:06,620 --> 00:13:10,550 Speaker 1: is a solution, bankruptcy record is publicly searchable. So if 254 00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: you do not want to have record, do not take 255 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:12,939 Speaker 1: it lightly. 256 00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:15,100 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that I don't have to pay my debts, 257 00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: I still have to pay. It's just that because I'm 258 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,740 Speaker 1: not able to pay under the standard terms and conditions, 259 00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:23,610 Speaker 1: I will be probably asked to pay a fraction of 260 00:13:23,610 --> 00:13:26,390 Speaker 1: it as a bankrupt. I do have to be mindful. 261 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,900 Speaker 1: For example, I can't travel without first getting permission and 262 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:34,380 Speaker 1: for some people depending on their professions, it could become 263 00:13:34,390 --> 00:13:35,670 Speaker 1: a hindrance ba 264 00:13:35,684 --> 00:13:38,054 Speaker 1: because I may not get my license renewed if I 265 00:13:38,054 --> 00:13:41,865 Speaker 1: am a bankrupt. So they're our responsibility expected of a 266 00:13:41,865 --> 00:13:47,145 Speaker 1: bankrupt on top of making the money contribution and target contribution. 267 00:13:47,155 --> 00:13:50,705 Speaker 1: In order for me to get this charge with record removed. 268 00:13:50,715 --> 00:13:53,434 Speaker 2: What's the worst that can happen if you try to 269 00:13:53,434 --> 00:13:57,635 Speaker 2: just escape your debt or not handle it as you 270 00:13:57,635 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: should. Of course you're dead size will get bigger 271 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: to the extent that the creditors probably will also take 272 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,490 Speaker 1: legal action against the person which could be rich or 273 00:14:09,490 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: seizure and sale someone will go to the house of 274 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:19,229 Speaker 1: the borrower place. Tickles on the items that have been seized. 275 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,970 Speaker 1: Of course you cannot remove those items because it's been 276 00:14:21,970 --> 00:14:26,650 Speaker 1: seized right. If no payment arrangement is being made monday, 277 00:14:26,650 --> 00:14:30,180 Speaker 1: the Ganga ni men secondhand goods buyers will go to 278 00:14:30,180 --> 00:14:33,780 Speaker 1: the house together with the Bay leaf the auction to 279 00:14:33,780 --> 00:14:36,950 Speaker 1: sell away the items. Yeah, they have the right to 280 00:14:36,950 --> 00:14:40,510 Speaker 1: sell away. It could be very traumatizing because this is 281 00:14:40,510 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: done at the home. Yeah. If you've got neighbors, it's 282 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,330 Speaker 1: possible that your neighbors be seed. If you do not 283 00:14:46,330 --> 00:14:47,970 Speaker 1: want to face that type of situation 284 00:14:48,170 --> 00:14:51,020 Speaker 1: then I think the person should try to make arrangements 285 00:14:51,020 --> 00:14:53,450 Speaker 1: to repay the creditors so that the credits will take 286 00:14:53,460 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: this action. The other possible action is to sue the 287 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: person bankrupt for people who are bankrupted. We have launched 288 00:15:01,610 --> 00:15:05,620 Speaker 1: a new service, a support programs for the bankrupt and 289 00:15:05,620 --> 00:15:09,910 Speaker 1: their families. It is what we call the bankruptcy rehabilitation program. 290 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,140 Speaker 1: We will help them to draw up a money budget 291 00:15:13,150 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: that helped them to meet their money contribution and target 292 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:17,090 Speaker 1: contribution 293 00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:20,370 Speaker 1: so that if they meet their M. C. T. C. 294 00:15:20,380 --> 00:15:24,060 Speaker 1: They can see themselves getting discharged and having their record 295 00:15:24,060 --> 00:15:28,170 Speaker 1: removed from publicly searchable records. People with a money issue 296 00:15:28,180 --> 00:15:30,330 Speaker 1: whether bankrupt or not. They have a lot of stress 297 00:15:30,340 --> 00:15:34,650 Speaker 1: especially the bankrupt newly bankrupted individuals. There's probably a lot 298 00:15:34,650 --> 00:15:37,990 Speaker 1: of emotional turmoil and relationship issues. So we have talks 299 00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:41,330 Speaker 1: that teach people how to better manage their relationship problem, 300 00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:44,820 Speaker 1: their mental stress and psychological stress. And we have a 301 00:15:44,820 --> 00:15:45,340 Speaker 1: unit 302 00:15:45,550 --> 00:15:48,470 Speaker 1: they can talk to the bankrupts and the backups family 303 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,230 Speaker 1: to ascertain what are their other needs so that we 304 00:15:51,230 --> 00:15:54,110 Speaker 1: can do referral for them to seek help from other 305 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: agencies and 306 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,470 Speaker 2: then they can get out of it too. That's the 307 00:15:57,470 --> 00:16:01,630 Speaker 1: hope and get out of it and get the bankruptcy 308 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,790 Speaker 1: record remove from publicly searchable records. 309 00:16:07,170 --> 00:16:12,790 Speaker 2: What if it's your friend or your family member that's 310 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,890 Speaker 2: in a debt problem, maybe not you, but what can 311 00:16:15,890 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: you do to help other people? Sometimes they realize the situation. 312 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:22,290 Speaker 2: Sometimes they don't. 313 00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:24,850 Speaker 1: If you know of a friend who actually in debt 314 00:16:24,860 --> 00:16:29,300 Speaker 1: but he is in denial, which often times that's what happened. 315 00:16:29,310 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: I have family members calling us. Can you please help 316 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:33,770 Speaker 1: my so and so 317 00:16:34,070 --> 00:16:36,060 Speaker 1: we say that we can't help him unless you want 318 00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:39,460 Speaker 1: to be helped you because the debt is under his name. 319 00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:42,260 Speaker 1: No one can do anything. Of course you can help 320 00:16:42,260 --> 00:16:44,700 Speaker 1: him to pay. But we all know it's not helping 321 00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:47,610 Speaker 1: because once you help him to pay, chances are again, 322 00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:50,050 Speaker 1: based on our experience is that people who get into 323 00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:53,550 Speaker 1: debt again because their families help them to pay. Right. 324 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: And sometimes the family members is actually in no financial 325 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: position to help. So the family members go and borrow 326 00:16:59,770 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: that is even worse. So now there's not just one 327 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: person in that, but 328 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,790 Speaker 1: two persons are in debt. Even if the family members 329 00:17:07,790 --> 00:17:12,149 Speaker 1: has got financial capacity to help during speaking the person 330 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,189 Speaker 1: in that many times, they don't learn from this experience. 331 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,950 Speaker 1: Very likely they will get into trouble again. So there's 332 00:17:18,950 --> 00:17:21,510 Speaker 1: no end to it. Of course you can talk to 333 00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: the person make some agreements. It's not going to be easy. 334 00:17:24,609 --> 00:17:26,980 Speaker 1: I can imagine it must be really tough because first 335 00:17:26,980 --> 00:17:27,530 Speaker 1: of all, 336 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,450 Speaker 1: the doctor is in denial. The person can get angry 337 00:17:31,460 --> 00:17:35,090 Speaker 1: and not cooperative. So being a friend of being a 338 00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:37,830 Speaker 1: family member really have to be very patient 339 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:43,350 Speaker 2: if you're someone who's vulnerable or easily tempted to borrow 340 00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:45,930 Speaker 2: or use credit cards and take up loans. Is the 341 00:17:45,930 --> 00:17:49,650 Speaker 2: solution just using cash and not taking up 342 00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:52,010 Speaker 2: any that as much as possible? 343 00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:54,740 Speaker 1: Yes, I would say so. If the person is really 344 00:17:54,740 --> 00:18:00,420 Speaker 1: very what they call impulsive, compulsive to make purchases frankly speaking, 345 00:18:00,430 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: I don't have any credit cards because if you don't 346 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,890 Speaker 1: have the cuts with you, you can buy things that 347 00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: you don't have cash to purchase. And the worst scenario 348 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,590 Speaker 1: is that you use up your savings because you still 349 00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:14,940 Speaker 1: have your debit card, right? 350 00:18:15,150 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: But at least you don't have a credit issue. Of course, 351 00:18:18,690 --> 00:18:20,550 Speaker 1: you still have to find a way to see how 352 00:18:20,550 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: to leave the balance day until you get your next paycheck. 353 00:18:23,650 --> 00:18:26,500 Speaker 1: But I think that is still in a way smaller 354 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:31,389 Speaker 1: problem to address then having $10,000 credit card bill outstanding 355 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:32,270 Speaker 1: to address. 356 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,210 Speaker 2: Some say that not all that is bad, that there's 357 00:18:35,210 --> 00:18:38,219 Speaker 2: good debt and bad debt. How do you know the 358 00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: difference 359 00:18:39,090 --> 00:18:41,070 Speaker 1: something is that that's 360 00:18:41,380 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 1: that you take on can help generate income or build 361 00:18:45,730 --> 00:18:48,950 Speaker 1: human capital. I take a loan when I graduate. I 362 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,250 Speaker 1: more or I take a loan, invest in a property 363 00:18:53,250 --> 00:18:55,930 Speaker 1: that can generate rental income. We still have to be 364 00:18:55,930 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: careful mindful about how much that to take. No doubt 365 00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: there is potential but I still have to think of 366 00:19:02,930 --> 00:19:05,210 Speaker 1: am I able to service? I think that is still 367 00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:08,129 Speaker 1: a very important question to answer. Before we apply for 368 00:19:08,140 --> 00:19:09,130 Speaker 1: a loan. 369 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: There are things to consider to make it simple. We 370 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: call it P A. O. P. Stand for purpose. So 371 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,340 Speaker 1: what is the purpose of taking on this loan? Do 372 00:19:17,340 --> 00:19:19,750 Speaker 1: I really need to buy that? And must I really 373 00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:23,060 Speaker 1: by now assuming it is a mass for example I 374 00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:26,540 Speaker 1: am a freelancer and my work requires me to have 375 00:19:26,540 --> 00:19:30,270 Speaker 1: a computer and my computer broke down. Of course computer 376 00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:32,469 Speaker 1: is my tool of trade so I need to buy 377 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: at least I know why I'm taking on installment to 378 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:36,790 Speaker 1: purchase the computer 379 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: Then the second question. Power right. A is affordability. So 380 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: the question is how much can I afford to service 381 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,270 Speaker 1: the money installment for this computer? So I need to 382 00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:49,130 Speaker 1: stop take what is by cash flow, what is by 383 00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:54,030 Speaker 1: earning assuming my capacity to service the installment payment is 384 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,139 Speaker 1: maybe $150 per month. 385 00:19:56,810 --> 00:20:00,290 Speaker 1: That is my capacity to service then if my computer 386 00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:03,660 Speaker 1: is going to cost $150 money installment to pay over 387 00:20:03,660 --> 00:20:06,420 Speaker 1: the next 12 months then. Okay, not too bad. So 388 00:20:06,420 --> 00:20:10,060 Speaker 1: don't go and buy a $4,000 computer right, because that 389 00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: will be beyond my servicing capacity already unless I can 390 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:14,419 Speaker 1: find a way 391 00:20:14,770 --> 00:20:19,540 Speaker 1: to reduce my other expenses then all is option. Now 392 00:20:19,540 --> 00:20:22,740 Speaker 1: the question is, are there other options to taking up 393 00:20:22,750 --> 00:20:26,490 Speaker 1: a new loan? For example, let's say a father promised 394 00:20:26,490 --> 00:20:28,580 Speaker 1: the sun if you do well in the exams, I'm 395 00:20:28,580 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 1: going to let you have a dog. 396 00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:34,340 Speaker 1: The father also promised the mother the wife we go holiday, 397 00:20:34,350 --> 00:20:38,010 Speaker 1: you know because now I can travel but the amount 398 00:20:38,010 --> 00:20:40,170 Speaker 1: he has may not be able to go for holiday 399 00:20:40,170 --> 00:20:41,750 Speaker 1: and still buy a dog. As you know. Nowadays, the 400 00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:46,150 Speaker 1: dog easily cost 8000 to $10,000 easily. And the holiday 401 00:20:46,150 --> 00:20:49,780 Speaker 1: for a family of three will easily cost another few thousands. 402 00:20:49,790 --> 00:20:51,890 Speaker 1: So he does have some savings but he can 403 00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:55,310 Speaker 1: accommodate both. So what are the options here? Do not 404 00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:57,790 Speaker 1: break his promise? The sun really has got good results. 405 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: So instead of going by a puppy perhaps go to S. P. C. A. 406 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,909 Speaker 1: To adopt a dog. Right. I mean these are options. 407 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,110 Speaker 1: The sun still get a dog. Father kept his promise 408 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,419 Speaker 1: and still can bring the family for a trip. Ask 409 00:21:11,420 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: yourself what is your power? 410 00:21:13,450 --> 00:21:16,740 Speaker 2: I'm just curious. You work with people with debt problems 411 00:21:16,740 --> 00:21:17,530 Speaker 2: all the time. 412 00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:22,380 Speaker 2: How do you handle your debt to use credit cards? Okay. 413 00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:25,410 Speaker 1: I do use credit cards nowadays quite a bit because 414 00:21:25,420 --> 00:21:28,810 Speaker 1: nowadays a lot of things is tapped to pay and go. 415 00:21:28,810 --> 00:21:31,170 Speaker 1: And the good thing is that there is a record 416 00:21:31,180 --> 00:21:33,730 Speaker 1: on what I spent on. Right. But I make it 417 00:21:33,730 --> 00:21:35,369 Speaker 1: a point to pay off at the end of the 418 00:21:35,369 --> 00:21:38,070 Speaker 1: month let's say pay off. I mean the total outstanding, 419 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: not what the statement asked me to pay minimum payment. 420 00:21:41,810 --> 00:21:42,970 Speaker 1: So I get 421 00:21:42,990 --> 00:21:46,340 Speaker 1: to have the convenience of using the card to make 422 00:21:46,340 --> 00:21:49,900 Speaker 1: purchases and some cuts of course allow me to earn 423 00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:52,340 Speaker 1: some cash back and things like that. But I don't 424 00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:56,189 Speaker 1: have to worry about talking up. That's because I paid off. Yes, 425 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,340 Speaker 2: thank you so much for sharing your insights wavin. I 426 00:21:59,340 --> 00:22:01,770 Speaker 2: mean it's a lot to think about and you make 427 00:22:01,770 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 2: great points about 428 00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 2: how people with debt problems can come from all walks 429 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 2: of life. And debt becomes an issue when you're borrowing 430 00:22:11,890 --> 00:22:15,670 Speaker 2: more and more and you have to borrow to pay 431 00:22:15,670 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 2: debt and to pay for your living expenses. And we 432 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 2: have to remember not to make too many commitments at once. 433 00:22:22,410 --> 00:22:23,290 Speaker 2: Thank you. 434 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,869 Speaker 2: Thanks to my guest Tan wei min. If you enjoyed 435 00:22:29,869 --> 00:22:33,270 Speaker 2: our podcast give us a five star rating and review. 436 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,419 Speaker 2: You can also email us at C. N. A. Podcasts 437 00:22:36,420 --> 00:22:40,310 Speaker 2: at Mediacorp dot com dot S. G. The team behind 438 00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:44,620 Speaker 2: this episode is Jacqueline, chan, Joanne, chan daniel lee and 439 00:22:44,619 --> 00:22:47,970 Speaker 2: Christina robert. Until next time. This is Sarah coffee