WEBVTT - Where will your fish come from in a climate stressed world? | EP 8 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:02.340 This is a C. N. A podcast. 0:00:05.410 --> 0:00:05.850 All right, 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.550 welcome back to the climate conversations with me julie you 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.150 of late, we're seeing the twin terrors of supply chain 0:00:18.150 --> 0:00:22.980 disruptions and climate change, affecting something very important to human 0:00:22.980 --> 0:00:28.110 survival food. In this episode. We want to talk about seafood, 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:33.260 specifically fish. Where do our supplies of fish come from? 0:00:33.270 --> 0:00:37.239 Especially since fish prices have risen from our traditional sources 0:00:37.250 --> 0:00:39.229 in Malaysia and Indonesia. 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.890 And as waters get warmer and the weather gets more unpredictable, 0:00:43.900 --> 0:00:48.030 how can the world better protected seafood supplies? What does 0:00:48.030 --> 0:00:52.210 it mean when businesses talk about sustainable seafood and what 0:00:52.210 --> 0:00:54.890 are the biggest problems we face? And how do we 0:00:54.890 --> 0:00:55.780 do better 0:00:56.430 --> 0:00:59.990 with me to dive deeper into the issues as Chester Gun? 0:01:00.250 --> 0:01:05.830 The responsible seafood Program officer at WWF Singapore. Hi Chester 0:01:05.830 --> 0:01:08.160 welcome hi judy. Thanks for having me. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.220 So, was there a particular moment that inspired you to 0:01:12.220 --> 0:01:16.210 get involved in tackling the issue of sustainability and seafood? Yeah, 0:01:16.209 --> 0:01:18.149 that's a good question actually. I've always been interested in 0:01:18.150 --> 0:01:20.839 marine conservation has always been my main interest in terms 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.150 of my educational background. My background as a marine scientist. 0:01:24.150 --> 0:01:26.630 I was trained in environmental science, I have a Master's 0:01:26.630 --> 0:01:30.750 in oceanography, but specifically on seafood, I was taking opportunities 0:01:30.750 --> 0:01:31.560 as it came 0:01:31.810 --> 0:01:34.230 before I joined up W. F. I was doing research 0:01:34.230 --> 0:01:37.250 for Shark and Ray supply chain looking at Singapore, trying 0:01:37.250 --> 0:01:39.759 to figure out where it's coming from. But with that 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.560 particular study on shark and ray, there's actually one image 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.190 that kept sticking in mind. A huge part of that 0:01:45.190 --> 0:01:48.590 was having interviews with your web market stall owners of 0:01:48.590 --> 0:01:51.550 your fishery merchants and the first few times I went 0:01:51.550 --> 0:01:53.750 down to the porch. I remember very clearly, still in 0:01:53.750 --> 0:01:56.760 my head right now, having this conversation with an old 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.330 uncle about his stock and right next to me was 0:01:59.330 --> 0:02:00.700 a massive power of 0:02:00.710 --> 0:02:04.690 stingray carcasses up to my mid tie, maybe 203 100 portions. 0:02:04.700 --> 0:02:07.420 And only then it really struck me the enormity of 0:02:07.420 --> 0:02:10.190 what I'm working with. This is a small country we have, right, 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.450 Our consumption is about 22 kg of seafood per capita. 0:02:13.460 --> 0:02:16.550 It's not even compared to Korea like 70 plus kg 0:02:16.550 --> 0:02:17.360 per capita. 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.419 And just like on a daily basis, this amount from 0:02:20.419 --> 0:02:23.650 one store for domestic consumption. So if you just multiply, 0:02:23.650 --> 0:02:27.690 that just feels like the oceans are definitely trouble at 0:02:27.690 --> 0:02:30.010 some point here. Exactly like you said, you know that 0:02:30.010 --> 0:02:33.820 Singapore is a seafood loving nation. Yet over 90% of 0:02:33.820 --> 0:02:36.130 the seafood are actually imported from overseas. 0:02:36.139 --> 0:02:39.389 Could you perhaps walk us through how fish or seafood 0:02:39.389 --> 0:02:41.660 get on their plates? Is it a lot different from 0:02:41.660 --> 0:02:45.030 other forms of food supplies, like meat or vegetable? Well, 0:02:45.030 --> 0:02:48.620 we do go through the same agrifood cultural systems. We 0:02:48.620 --> 0:02:51.690 largely import from the region. I think about good, 60% 0:02:51.690 --> 0:02:54.709 are coming from Thailand Vietnam Malaysia Indonesia. 0:02:54.889 --> 0:02:57.220 It could be either wild caught or farm Indonesia is 0:02:57.220 --> 0:03:00.109 the second largest exporter of seafood in the world. Singapore 0:03:00.110 --> 0:03:02.780 is just getting that from these areas and going through 0:03:02.780 --> 0:03:05.850 the fishery ports, going to the web markets or directly 0:03:05.850 --> 0:03:08.100 imported to your retailers and restaurants and that's how it 0:03:08.100 --> 0:03:11.210 gets to your plate. We do have a domestic sector 0:03:11.210 --> 0:03:13.670 for agriculture, we don't really have a significant one for 0:03:13.669 --> 0:03:14.650 wild caught fisheries. 0:03:14.830 --> 0:03:17.900 So most of our domestic production is from the agriculture side. 0:03:17.900 --> 0:03:20.870 About 110 c based farms adding land based farms will 0:03:20.870 --> 0:03:23.590 be 100 and 30 140. But like you said, the 0:03:23.590 --> 0:03:27.250 production volumes at this point in time are still very small. 0:03:27.260 --> 0:03:30.540 Although with the Singapore Food Agency, 30 by 30 go, 0:03:30.550 --> 0:03:33.790 there's a lot more push to expand that to three, 0:03:35.385 --> 0:03:38.955 More than five years ago. I think it's 2016 to 0:03:38.955 --> 0:03:44.445 be exact report by WWF revealed that 75% of the 0:03:44.445 --> 0:03:49.495 seafood consumed in Singapore is unsustainable and they're irresponsibly fished 0:03:49.495 --> 0:03:51.825 or farmed. Can you tell me a little bit about 0:03:51.825 --> 0:03:56.045 the difference between a sustainable farm and one that's not 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.150 okay when it comes to sustainability, there's a common misconception 0:04:00.150 --> 0:04:03.110 that we just look at species, it helps to really 0:04:03.110 --> 0:04:05.200 boil it down to species is easier as a piece 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.200 of knowledge for consumers. But unfortunate fact is that when 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.410 you're looking at city of seafood, it includes the production methods. 0:04:11.410 --> 0:04:13.369 So in terms of wild caught fisheries is how it's 0:04:13.370 --> 0:04:17.109 being caught, whether it's using devices that increases bycatch or 0:04:17.110 --> 0:04:21.500 decreases bycatch, which is catching non targeted species, which is 0:04:21.510 --> 0:04:22.500 obviously not some 0:04:22.510 --> 0:04:25.370 something that we want. The production method is important. But 0:04:25.380 --> 0:04:28.380 also the location itself because fish stocks of the same 0:04:28.380 --> 0:04:31.900 species could differ widely in the health three different areas. 0:04:31.900 --> 0:04:34.410 So when we look at systemic or seafood is a 0:04:34.410 --> 0:04:38.529 combination of these factors, how it's produced in farms, Whether 0:04:38.529 --> 0:04:41.849 you are taking into account whether you're mitigating environmental impacts, 0:04:41.850 --> 0:04:44.529 whether in mitigating social impacts and that could differ on 0:04:44.529 --> 0:04:47.060 farm to farm level. So looking at species specifically is 0:04:47.060 --> 0:04:48.370 a little bit too general. 0:04:48.740 --> 0:04:50.930 That's the lens we need to look at even as 0:04:50.930 --> 0:04:53.400 a consumer when I'm looking for stable products, I need 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.550 to consider these other factors. Okay, so has the situation 0:04:56.550 --> 0:04:59.380 improved since then? It's hard to tell. There's one huge 0:04:59.380 --> 0:05:02.549 challenge that we face in Singapore. That's data. So data 0:05:02.550 --> 0:05:05.570 transparency with one problem, we need to know this metrics, 0:05:05.570 --> 0:05:08.800 but unfortunately it is not just a Singapore based issue regionally, 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.740 there is this opacity in the data supply chain. That 0:05:11.740 --> 0:05:14.240 awareness is also missing because that data is missing. 0:05:14.540 --> 0:05:18.960 Singaporeans are born and raised in Singapore at seafood my 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.360 whole life. Unfortunately I'm one of those who wouldn't be 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:23.750 able to tell, especially if it's in a fill a 0:05:23.750 --> 0:05:26.740 form and I didn't buy it myself what species it is. 0:05:26.750 --> 0:05:29.510 So that's the same kind of problem that consumers face. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.910 You don't know what you're eating half the time. 0:05:32.070 --> 0:05:35.120 No, it's fish and then you're just eating it. Our 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.690 national food to spell curry fish head sambal stingray woven 0:05:38.690 --> 0:05:42.380 into our identity. But unfortunately on the consumers and because 0:05:42.380 --> 0:05:44.790 of the lack of data that we have awareness is 0:05:44.790 --> 0:05:46.460 just a big issue. So if I just want to 0:05:46.460 --> 0:05:48.140 know where is it from, If you look at the label, 0:05:48.150 --> 0:05:49.589 you could say product of Malaysia, 0:05:49.870 --> 0:05:52.330 but it doesn't tell you whether it's well caught or farmed. 0:05:52.339 --> 0:05:55.760 It doesn't tell you whether it's just imported from Malaysia, 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.400 but it could possibly be landed in Indonesia and then 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.839 send that. So you don't actually know the particular fish 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.240 stock it's from or the farm that it's coming from. 0:06:03.250 --> 0:06:06.790 When I was talking to wet markets, store owners was 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.610 asked them why they don't have this information, Why maybe 0:06:09.610 --> 0:06:13.350 they know the country. But even then it's a 50% chance. 0:06:13.350 --> 0:06:15.820 They say, oh, I don't know India Malaysia likely that's 0:06:15.820 --> 0:06:17.540 coming from, but they are not certain about it. There's 0:06:17.540 --> 0:06:19.779 no credentials, there is no proof behind that 0:06:19.980 --> 0:06:21.710 and ask them. Do you not ask these questions? Is 0:06:21.710 --> 0:06:24.260 this is not your concern? And for them, most common 0:06:24.260 --> 0:06:26.549 response I get, which really drove it home is that 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.430 the customers don't ask if the customers don't ask, why 0:06:30.430 --> 0:06:33.200 would I want to possibly jeopardize this business relationship, it 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.770 doesn't give me any profit margin, there's nothing gained on 0:06:35.770 --> 0:06:37.679 my part is extra. But what we 0:06:37.695 --> 0:06:40.464 see is some optimistic signs that there is a push 0:06:40.464 --> 0:06:43.414 from the business side from the consumer side in having 0:06:43.415 --> 0:06:47.775 more interest. So customers asking and collectively if we do 0:06:47.775 --> 0:06:50.025 have a consumer base that's asking these questions then it 0:06:50.025 --> 0:06:52.445 starts sending that signal up the chain so the situation 0:06:52.445 --> 0:06:55.395 will improve, interesting given Singapore 0:06:55.680 --> 0:07:00.020 is highly dependent on imports for its food requirements, but 0:07:00.020 --> 0:07:03.180 you certainly have very vulnerable to fluctuations and food supply 0:07:03.180 --> 0:07:07.580 prices and food safety. Tell us about what W W. F. S. G. 0:07:07.580 --> 0:07:10.640 Is doing to ensure sustainable supply and market demand for 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:12.000 responsible seafood. 0:07:12.140 --> 0:07:14.350 Yeah, that's a great question. What we're trying to do 0:07:14.350 --> 0:07:17.180 to forge a more responsible seafood future for Singapore, we'll 0:07:17.180 --> 0:07:20.180 tackle in the supply side, Seafood work is complex. You 0:07:20.180 --> 0:07:22.560 need to look at different details. There's so many species, 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.660 there's so many products processing involved. Supply chains are very 0:07:25.660 --> 0:07:28.910 fragmented and very different. As I mentioned, these sf. A 0:07:28.910 --> 0:07:32.280 30 by 30 goal includes a huge planned expansion of 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.020 the local agriculture sector so that we can get a 30% 0:07:35.020 --> 0:07:38.050 of Singapore's nutritional needs on that front. We try to 0:07:38.050 --> 0:07:38.270 work 0:07:38.290 --> 0:07:41.510 with the local farms in order to expand their capacity 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.890 and ensure that while they're expanding this sector is done 0:07:43.890 --> 0:07:47.320 with sustainability principles in mind. So this could be, for example, 0:07:47.330 --> 0:07:50.590 we facilitate that move through what we call agricultural improvement 0:07:50.590 --> 0:07:53.820 projects or A I. P. S. For short A. I. P. S. 0:07:53.830 --> 0:07:58.940 Not a new initiative network. Marine conservation organizations across the 0:07:58.940 --> 0:08:01.170 world are working on A. I. P. S. Because they're 0:08:01.170 --> 0:08:03.880 very general catchall phrase that look at how to improve 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:04.440 the farm 0:08:04.650 --> 0:08:07.690 and for WWF we use this project to work closely 0:08:07.690 --> 0:08:10.880 with them to look at various aspects like fish feed, 0:08:10.890 --> 0:08:13.880 fish health, energy use on the farm, what the impact 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.760 is on surrounding ecosystems and to help them become more 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.340 environmentally and socially responsible. And with the benchmark it uses 0:08:20.340 --> 0:08:23.260 the aquaculture stewardship council standard which is the S. C. 0:08:23.260 --> 0:08:26.680 Certification itself. So we try to prepare them because this 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:30.030 is a rigorous, globally recognized standard. It has very strong 0:08:30.284 --> 0:08:33.504 and very detailed metrics on how to move towards responsibility 0:08:33.504 --> 0:08:36.664 really producing. So we use that certification as a benchmark. 0:08:36.674 --> 0:08:39.604 We develop a gap on where their current practices are 0:08:39.604 --> 0:08:42.534 to those standards. We help them develop an improvement plan 0:08:42.534 --> 0:08:45.124 that is specific to the farm itself. To bridge that gap. 0:08:45.134 --> 0:08:47.713 And throughout this whole process is very collaborative effort, A 0:08:47.714 --> 0:08:51.714 very close partnership where we provide expertise, we provide assistance, 0:08:51.724 --> 0:08:53.934 we do progress monitoring so that we are sure as 0:08:53.934 --> 0:08:55.434 well because we are an NGO when we 0:08:55.458 --> 0:08:57.658 looking at conservation we are sure that the farm is 0:08:57.658 --> 0:09:00.198 moving to a sustainability for those of us who are 0:09:00.198 --> 0:09:04.588 not so familiar with aqua farming in Singapore perhaps. Can 0:09:04.588 --> 0:09:06.928 you tell us how many are out there what kinds 0:09:06.928 --> 0:09:11.688 of species are grown domestically and blood volumes. Yes, we 0:09:11.688 --> 0:09:14.338 actually just completed a study. I will need to look 0:09:14.338 --> 0:09:17.788 at it again, fully familiarized myself with the actual volumes 0:09:17.798 --> 0:09:20.838 but we have around 100 and 10 C based farms. 0:09:20.862 --> 0:09:23.952 We have also up and coming farms on land. They're 0:09:23.952 --> 0:09:27.031 using RS systems recently spoke to a farm that is 0:09:27.032 --> 0:09:29.722 trying to farm salmon cohort of species in the tropical 0:09:29.722 --> 0:09:32.142 climate like Singapore and that's possible because of these closed 0:09:32.142 --> 0:09:36.342 containment systems, it's actively growing is a very fluctuating ecosystem. So, 0:09:36.342 --> 0:09:40.382 but we have largely in Singapore produced barramundi so that 0:09:40.381 --> 0:09:43.732 your agency best we produce coral trout. We have shrimp 0:09:43.732 --> 0:09:46.242 farms in Singapore, there are quite a few different species, 0:09:46.266 --> 0:09:49.335 But they're mostly locally consumed. So part of our study 0:09:49.336 --> 0:09:51.516 that we did recently was to look at how they 0:09:51.516 --> 0:09:55.036 were selling their products and which sectors about 3%. We're 0:09:55.035 --> 0:09:58.066 going to exports and a lot we're going to your retailers, 0:09:58.066 --> 0:10:00.926 your restaurants, so that's the current state of fun. But 0:10:00.926 --> 0:10:04.195 it's going to change drastically in the next 10 years 0:10:04.196 --> 0:10:06.546 with the plans that the Singapore government has in the 0:10:06.546 --> 0:10:09.636 way it's being restructured agriculture sector. So what I'm saying 0:10:09.636 --> 0:10:11.670 might be completely obsolete in a couple of years. 0:10:11.970 --> 0:10:15.819 Yeah, but if we look at right now, rising inflation 0:10:15.820 --> 0:10:19.860 from feed to fuel, is that having any impact on 0:10:19.860 --> 0:10:23.540 local fish farms? Yes, definitely. The fish farms need input, right? 0:10:23.540 --> 0:10:26.240 They need farm, they need seed stock to grow out 0:10:26.250 --> 0:10:29.870 and be able to sell it as well. So rising inflation, 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.819 all cost considerations for them, which is why to help 0:10:33.820 --> 0:10:37.410 them move to sustainability, especially for smaller farms, they need 0:10:37.410 --> 0:10:40.190 that support either from industry or from government to try 0:10:40.190 --> 0:10:41.929 and transition to practices 0:10:41.945 --> 0:10:45.005 more sustainable, but for them causes a huge factor. They 0:10:45.005 --> 0:10:48.694 are competing not just locally, highly competitive market, competing with 0:10:48.695 --> 0:10:53.005 agriculture farms that are obviously with cheaper inputs from Malaysia 0:10:53.005 --> 0:10:56.885 from Indonesia. So it's a highly competitive environment because they 0:10:56.895 --> 0:10:59.305 recognize the need for it. And recently we had a 0:10:59.304 --> 0:11:02.845 workshop with agriculture farmers in Singapore. They talk about water quality, 0:11:02.855 --> 0:11:05.985 how it's affecting you. They know environmentally they need to 0:11:05.985 --> 0:11:09.075 consider these things. It's just that cost considerations is still 0:11:09.075 --> 0:11:11.015 a key factor for them. Survival is still a key 0:11:11.015 --> 0:11:11.915 factor for them. 0:11:19.220 --> 0:11:21.610 Hi, my name is Sarah Khaldi and I'm the host 0:11:21.610 --> 0:11:24.709 of a new podcast called Money talks. Yes, we will 0:11:24.710 --> 0:11:27.360 be talking about money, but more than that, we'll also 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:31.480 be talking about life, personal choices, lucky breaks, and how 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.650 money is the thread running through it all. So look 0:11:34.650 --> 0:11:37.370 out for our episodes wherever you get your podcasts. 0:11:45.950 --> 0:11:50.160 I remember there was a controversial netflix documentary. See Spirit 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.920 C which had a single call to action for its viewers, 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.940 which was stop eating fish. So where do you stand 0:11:55.940 --> 0:11:58.410 on that for me? It's a personal opinion. I think 0:11:58.410 --> 0:12:01.160 that call for stop eating fish was a little misguided. 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.949 There are huge portions of the global population that depend 0:12:04.950 --> 0:12:08.450 on fish as the active protein, that most essential protein 0:12:08.460 --> 0:12:11.530 in Indonesia. It doesn't account for some underground realities and 0:12:11.530 --> 0:12:12.900 we live in a region where a lot of those 0:12:12.900 --> 0:12:14.229 communities are like that. 0:12:14.390 --> 0:12:17.240 So just saying stop eating fish and what's the alternative? 0:12:17.250 --> 0:12:20.780 That's difficult to answer amongst most of the mainstream meat products, 0:12:20.780 --> 0:12:23.440 fish in general, it is actually more resource efficient. 0:12:23.690 --> 0:12:26.250 The feed conversion ratio and this term is used to 0:12:26.250 --> 0:12:28.290 see like how much feed you have to put in 0:12:28.290 --> 0:12:31.140 to gain like one kg of animal weight. Feed conversion 0:12:31.140 --> 0:12:34.930 ratio is the lowest. So on some level actually, fish 0:12:34.929 --> 0:12:38.030 is a better protein, but it needs to be consuming moderation. 0:12:38.030 --> 0:12:40.250 It needs to have these considerations or whether it's impacting 0:12:40.250 --> 0:12:43.540 the ocean health, whether it's impacting social communities need to 0:12:43.540 --> 0:12:46.000 know the local context of where you are consuming 0:12:46.590 --> 0:12:48.699 in Singapore. We do have a little bit more choice. 0:12:48.700 --> 0:12:51.340 So we do look at moderation in diet, we also 0:12:51.340 --> 0:12:55.730 look at plant based diets is something that pushes Yeah, moderation. 0:12:55.730 --> 0:12:58.000 That's hard to define. Right? Is there a limit to 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.700 the amount of fish we should eat per week? Keep 0:13:00.700 --> 0:13:03.300 the oceans replenished maybe once a week. 0:13:03.325 --> 0:13:05.045 Does that sound about right? Yeah, It's hard to put 0:13:05.045 --> 0:13:06.855 a number like you say, what I was looking at 0:13:06.855 --> 0:13:11.195 is more less excessively eating, for example, your seafood buffets 0:13:11.205 --> 0:13:13.885 or one of those where you're just basically getting more 0:13:13.885 --> 0:13:16.015 and more lobster just for the sake of it and spending. 0:13:16.015 --> 0:13:17.645 So that's what I was looking at. So not so 0:13:17.645 --> 0:13:20.059 much quantity of how much you eat a week, 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.020 but just knowing that are you consuming just for the 0:13:23.020 --> 0:13:24.939 sake of consuming at some point. So that's what I 0:13:24.940 --> 0:13:29.689 mean by moderation. Okay, so if we are to consume seafood, 0:13:29.700 --> 0:13:32.680 are there some other species that are at risk of 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.679 becoming unsustainable? That we should think twice about before eating? 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.260 What are the preferred sort of eating choice would you say? 0:13:39.510 --> 0:13:42.480 Yeah, that's why I said we focus on certified products 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.300 because looking at species level is kind of problematic. I 0:13:45.300 --> 0:13:47.630 could be telling you, yes, you can eat this particular muscle, 0:13:47.630 --> 0:13:50.740 but perhaps if it's sourced from this different area, it 0:13:50.740 --> 0:13:53.500 actually causes a lot more problems than some other areas. 0:13:53.500 --> 0:13:55.370 So you need to know the other metrics before you 0:13:55.370 --> 0:13:58.420 can make decisions based on what you can consume. But 0:13:58.420 --> 0:13:59.790 there are a couple more broad 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.370 based ones that are just threatened worldwide and obviously should 0:14:02.370 --> 0:14:05.970 avoid one example being your shark and ray species. Ru 0:14:05.970 --> 0:14:09.260 CN just last year released a huge reassessment of their 0:14:09.270 --> 0:14:12.520 red list where they're looking at the assessment of the 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.929 species at the global level how threatened it is basically. 0:14:14.929 --> 0:14:17.890 So there are different categories to that being no concern 0:14:17.890 --> 0:14:20.080 to critically endangered or even extinct 0:14:20.090 --> 0:14:22.500 and what they found was for sharks and rays, we 0:14:22.500 --> 0:14:25.010 had roughly one third of the species of sharks and 0:14:25.010 --> 0:14:28.460 rays currently in danger of extinction. And that's the second 0:14:28.460 --> 0:14:32.000 highest animal group behind amphibians. And then the second thing 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.840 is in the critically endangered portion. We had a tripling 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:36.640 of the number of species and a lot of that 0:14:36.650 --> 0:14:40.370 in race species. So shocked, scared a lot of attention generally. 0:14:40.790 --> 0:14:42.650 And that's a good thing in some way, even though 0:14:42.650 --> 0:14:46.130 we still see a decline but raised, especially in Singapore 0:14:46.130 --> 0:14:48.040 we do consume, but a bit of race, they get 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.830 a lot less attention. They're not commonly consumed in other countries. 0:14:50.830 --> 0:14:53.930 They also something that we don't know as much information about. 0:14:53.940 --> 0:14:56.590 So these are species you should just avoid at all 0:14:56.590 --> 0:14:59.020 costs at this point in time. So there are certain 0:14:59.020 --> 0:15:02.650 things that you can avoid completely, but just looking at 0:15:02.650 --> 0:15:05.390 species itself is not sufficient. You need to know how 0:15:05.390 --> 0:15:08.479 it's called, how it's farmed. Okay Chester. So before I 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.250 let you go, what do you think 0:15:10.390 --> 0:15:13.700 the next 10 to 20 years of aquaculture production might 0:15:13.700 --> 0:15:17.260 look like? Well the composition farmed species, do you think 0:15:17.260 --> 0:15:21.530 it'll shift globally within the next two years it's going 0:15:21.530 --> 0:15:24.830 to be aquaculture and the expansion because of fish stocks 0:15:24.830 --> 0:15:26.660 that we have and how we're already almost at the 0:15:26.660 --> 0:15:29.250 maximum limit of fishing that it's going to be aquaculture 0:15:29.250 --> 0:15:32.330 producing at the global level in Singapore, it's still a 0:15:32.330 --> 0:15:34.520 little bit fluid. I can't really say for sure the 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.680 next 20 years it has a lot of focus on 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:37.660 high tech farming 0:15:37.810 --> 0:15:42.180 and also obviously on more profitable products for your luxury items. 0:15:42.190 --> 0:15:44.239 But there are farms that I've spoken to. They want 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.160 to cater to the local market as well. So your 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.880 wet markets, they want to funnel to the basic consumer 0:15:48.890 --> 0:15:52.400 rather than your hotels and restaurants. Your bigger markets, it 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.440 could change quite a bit, there could be more fish 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.000 that you see that you're buying for the wet markets 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.470 for the farms in Singapore, but it really depends at 0:15:59.470 --> 0:16:00.570 this point in time. I know the 0:16:00.583 --> 0:16:02.753 the government also wants to push for domestic consumption, right? 0:16:02.753 --> 0:16:05.433 So there is a factor that they also want more 0:16:05.433 --> 0:16:08.863 species that are consumed locally right now that is the case, 0:16:08.863 --> 0:16:11.163 but it's also more for the higher end markets. So 0:16:11.163 --> 0:16:13.783 there could be a shift for consumers. One of the 0:16:13.783 --> 0:16:16.013 key things we really can do is start to create 0:16:16.013 --> 0:16:19.443 the bus collectively we have purchasing power, we vote with 0:16:19.443 --> 0:16:23.340 our wallets, so not just supporting companies that are investing 0:16:23.356 --> 0:16:28.446 sustainability, have robust activity policies, but also certified products, right? 0:16:28.446 --> 0:16:30.916 Certified products, They have gone through the whole process, they 0:16:30.916 --> 0:16:33.896 are being ordered that the certification scheme does everything for you. 0:16:33.896 --> 0:16:35.746 It looks at the metrics, you don't even have to 0:16:35.746 --> 0:16:37.676 bother about that if you need to know and they 0:16:37.686 --> 0:16:40.359 ensure that the products with that label actually came from 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:45.370 the fishery or the farm itself. So certified products. So M. S. C. S. C. Products, 0:16:45.370 --> 0:16:46.130 you look at them 0:16:46.290 --> 0:16:48.710 and you use that if you can afford it of 0:16:48.710 --> 0:16:51.980 course support because there's sometimes there's a gap because the 0:16:51.980 --> 0:16:54.140 lack of supply in the local sphere, so that's why 0:16:54.140 --> 0:16:57.320 WWF wants to create more certified farms in our local 0:16:57.330 --> 0:16:59.850 culture sector, because with the logistics change, it might also 0:16:59.850 --> 0:17:02.980 be comparable in price and easier for them for consumers 0:17:02.980 --> 0:17:05.290 to take it up by using our wallet to buy 0:17:05.290 --> 0:17:08.659 like certified products in supporting that. But also asking questions, 0:17:08.670 --> 0:17:12.200 sustain the information is key to us making smart purchasing 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:13.590 decisions that we want to know that 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:15.470 And why I say that as well as we did 0:17:15.470 --> 0:17:18.780 a study in Singapore and essential last year, looking at 0:17:18.780 --> 0:17:22.820 the consumer base in Singapore, looking at how they view sustainability. 0:17:22.830 --> 0:17:25.570 It was not just on seafood is generally on sustainability 0:17:25.570 --> 0:17:28.310 across a wide various sectors, but what we found was 0:17:28.310 --> 0:17:32.210 that not only 41% of them identified themselves as devoted 0:17:32.210 --> 0:17:36.020 to the environment and that's pretty strong term, but 75% 0:17:36.020 --> 0:17:36.400 said 0:17:36.780 --> 0:17:39.510 they want to behave more sustainably, they just like the 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.689 avenues and options. So there is this gap between current 0:17:43.690 --> 0:17:47.490 behavior and where they seem to the attitudes to sustainability 0:17:47.500 --> 0:17:50.250 and so bridging that gap could really help to build 0:17:50.250 --> 0:17:54.330 momentum to transforming the whole seafood industry. Alright Chester, thank 0:17:54.330 --> 0:17:56.410 you very much for your time. It's been so insightful. 0:17:56.420 --> 0:17:58.510 Thanks so much julie as well. That's great chatting with 0:17:58.510 --> 0:17:59.060 you 0:18:01.490 --> 0:18:03.949 special. Thanks to my guest and thanks to all of 0:18:03.950 --> 0:18:07.460 you for tuning in, we hope you enjoyed this episode. 0:18:07.470 --> 0:18:11.080 Do remember to subscribe and like this podcast so, you know, 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.350 when a new episode drops, you can find CNN's climate 0:18:14.350 --> 0:18:18.220 and sustainability coverage online at CNN dot asia. The team 0:18:18.220 --> 0:18:22.830 behind this podcast is Audrey one Jacqueline chan Danieli and 0:18:22.830 --> 0:18:25.880 Christina robert, and I'm julie you signing off.