1 00:00:03,369 --> 00:00:05,710 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast 2 00:00:08,430 --> 00:00:10,890 Speaker 1: working together as a couple. Did you have to set 3 00:00:10,898 --> 00:00:13,930 Speaker 1: certain ground rules whenever I make a decision? Right? I 4 00:00:13,939 --> 00:00:16,379 Speaker 1: always put it in mind to actually ask her that 5 00:00:16,389 --> 00:00:19,590 Speaker 1: is my personal protocol when you have any disputes or 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,530 Speaker 1: disagreements in the workplace and your employees are there, how 7 00:00:22,540 --> 00:00:26,628 Speaker 1: do you manage that? There are times when things get complicated, 8 00:00:26,659 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: the marriage comes above the business. So even if the 9 00:00:29,930 --> 00:00:32,290 Speaker 1: business fails, the thing that we have to hold on 10 00:00:32,299 --> 00:00:33,270 Speaker 1: to is our marriage. 11 00:00:35,098 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. I'm Tiffany and you're listening to the Work 12 00:00:38,250 --> 00:00:41,848 Speaker 1: it podcast. And I'm Gerald since we started on this podcast. 13 00:00:41,860 --> 00:00:43,439 Speaker 1: So many of you have reached out to say you 14 00:00:43,450 --> 00:00:47,020 Speaker 1: found our topics useful. This podcast community is exactly what 15 00:00:47,029 --> 00:00:49,319 Speaker 1: we want to build a place where we can help 16 00:00:49,330 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: you with your career growth. Yeah. And before we start, 17 00:00:52,090 --> 00:00:54,299 Speaker 1: I want to mention that we've been reading the comments 18 00:00:54,310 --> 00:00:57,630 Speaker 1: that you've left for us on youtube and Spotify, Lee, 19 00:00:57,639 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: you left a comment on Spotify on our A ma 20 00:01:00,049 --> 00:01:01,549 Speaker 1: out of office, but still 21 00:01:01,685 --> 00:01:04,884 Speaker 1: at work, Lee said that their boss expects them to 22 00:01:04,894 --> 00:01:09,135 Speaker 1: still be connected although they are on block leave and 23 00:01:09,144 --> 00:01:14,184 Speaker 1: this boss uses WhatsApp Gerald because it's not tracked Gerald 24 00:01:14,194 --> 00:01:17,004 Speaker 1: any quick advice for Lee. Where do I start? Right. 25 00:01:17,014 --> 00:01:19,525 Speaker 1: But offhand there currently is no national law on the 26 00:01:19,535 --> 00:01:22,775 Speaker 1: right to disconnect. So unfortunately, a lot of this is 27 00:01:22,785 --> 00:01:25,675 Speaker 1: based on your hr company policy when a lot is 28 00:01:25,684 --> 00:01:28,114 Speaker 1: based on your mutual respect and understanding, you know, 29 00:01:28,209 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: a lot of give and take within the team, I 30 00:01:30,370 --> 00:01:32,470 Speaker 1: would just say to Lee, you know, if you need to, 31 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: you can view so below, if your hr policy supports you, 32 00:01:34,970 --> 00:01:36,669 Speaker 1: you could bring this up, view it as helping your 33 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,470 Speaker 1: boss become a better manager, right? But if there isn't 34 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,620 Speaker 1: such a policy, you could really just try to give 35 00:01:41,629 --> 00:01:43,929 Speaker 1: and take maybe mute the group chat and catch up 36 00:01:43,940 --> 00:01:47,089 Speaker 1: on the messages later. Yeah, good advice. We love that 37 00:01:47,099 --> 00:01:49,459 Speaker 1: we are receiving comments like this or even questions. We 38 00:01:49,470 --> 00:01:51,540 Speaker 1: love that you're talking to us. So continue to send 39 00:01:51,550 --> 00:01:53,730 Speaker 1: them to us. And of course, we have to ask 40 00:01:53,739 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: me anything 41 00:01:54,824 --> 00:01:57,224 Speaker 1: at the end of the discussion each time. So I'll 42 00:01:57,235 --> 00:01:59,014 Speaker 1: do my best to answer them. So keep those questions 43 00:01:59,025 --> 00:02:01,665 Speaker 1: coming in. Also do subscribe to our podcast. So you 44 00:02:01,675 --> 00:02:04,665 Speaker 1: get an alert when a new episode drops. Yeah, today's 45 00:02:04,675 --> 00:02:07,574 Speaker 1: ask me anything question is I'm getting promoted ahead of 46 00:02:07,584 --> 00:02:11,475 Speaker 1: my peers. How do I manage them? So things aren't awkward. 47 00:02:11,494 --> 00:02:14,445 Speaker 1: We'll get to that soon. But first Gerald both of 48 00:02:14,455 --> 00:02:17,774 Speaker 1: us are married. Right? And for anybody who's listening in 49 00:02:17,785 --> 00:02:20,013 Speaker 1: and not sure we're not married to one another in 50 00:02:20,024 --> 00:02:21,205 Speaker 1: case you are wondering. 51 00:02:21,490 --> 00:02:24,149 Speaker 1: But at some point, both of us have actually worked 52 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,630 Speaker 1: with our spouses before. What is the best part about 53 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,279 Speaker 1: working with your wife? Great question. This is the score 54 00:02:30,288 --> 00:02:33,369 Speaker 1: points question. My wife, she really keeps me sane very 55 00:02:33,380 --> 00:02:35,899 Speaker 1: stable because when we are just starting out the business, 56 00:02:35,910 --> 00:02:38,179 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ups and downs. So she's really 57 00:02:38,190 --> 00:02:41,309 Speaker 1: that voice of reason, that voice of objectivity 58 00:02:41,589 --> 00:02:43,839 Speaker 1: a bit like my sounding board for me to just 59 00:02:43,889 --> 00:02:46,758 Speaker 1: hear myself sometimes and also to understand myself a lot 60 00:02:46,770 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: better in terms of why we are doing certain things, right? 61 00:02:48,889 --> 00:02:52,508 Speaker 1: So overall she's the one who keeps me grounded. Hm. Yeah, 62 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: I mean, for me, the best thing about working with 63 00:02:54,649 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: my husband is that he understands the heavy workload because 64 00:02:57,529 --> 00:03:00,910 Speaker 1: I think in my industry, the workload can be very heavy. 65 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,110 Speaker 1: The time we spent at work also 66 00:03:03,345 --> 00:03:06,875 Speaker 1: can be very long. Ok. But what's the worst thing 67 00:03:06,883 --> 00:03:09,585 Speaker 1: I'll start first? So, working together with my husband, I 68 00:03:09,595 --> 00:03:12,744 Speaker 1: realized that I took some of his criticisms very personally. 69 00:03:12,895 --> 00:03:15,494 Speaker 1: So he might be giving me feedback about my work. 70 00:03:15,505 --> 00:03:17,445 Speaker 1: And I wasn't sure if he was putting on his 71 00:03:17,455 --> 00:03:20,494 Speaker 1: husband hat or his coworker hat. And I took it 72 00:03:20,505 --> 00:03:23,204 Speaker 1: very personally. It was actually the source of quite a 73 00:03:23,214 --> 00:03:24,735 Speaker 1: number of arguments 74 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:27,179 Speaker 1: for me. I think it's just if I have to 75 00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:29,779 Speaker 1: summarize it, it's just different works styles. You know, for me, 76 00:03:29,788 --> 00:03:31,529 Speaker 1: I tend to plan ahead while my wife kind of 77 00:03:31,538 --> 00:03:34,070 Speaker 1: goes with the flow quite a lot more. So you 78 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,660 Speaker 1: can already imagine the challenges, right? I don't need to elaborate. 79 00:03:36,669 --> 00:03:38,919 Speaker 1: It's not easy and we all know it. So which 80 00:03:38,929 --> 00:03:40,660 Speaker 1: is why we invited a real couple here with a 81 00:03:40,764 --> 00:03:43,014 Speaker 1: while working together to join and share with us their 82 00:03:43,024 --> 00:03:47,154 Speaker 1: own experience. So happy to introduce Crystal, Go Chief Executive 83 00:03:47,164 --> 00:03:50,384 Speaker 1: Officer at Grow Public Relations and her husband Kelvin Te 84 00:03:50,524 --> 00:03:54,824 Speaker 1: is chief operating officer at the same company. Welcome guys. Hello, 85 00:03:54,835 --> 00:03:56,225 Speaker 1: I'm happy to be here. 86 00:03:56,690 --> 00:03:58,350 Speaker 1: Thank you so much guys. I mean, you've heard of 87 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,539 Speaker 1: our experience, Crystal, I want to start with you. I'm 88 00:04:00,550 --> 00:04:02,470 Speaker 1: sure you have a good story to tell, right? So 89 00:04:02,479 --> 00:04:05,309 Speaker 1: you found out your agency a few years ago. After 90 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,179 Speaker 1: 23 years, you decided to ask Kelvin to join you 91 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:10,479 Speaker 1: to be your partner in life and also a partner 92 00:04:10,490 --> 00:04:13,419 Speaker 1: at work. What made you decide to ask Kelvin? Hey, 93 00:04:13,429 --> 00:04:16,109 Speaker 1: come join me at work? Yeah, I think at that point, 94 00:04:16,119 --> 00:04:19,630 Speaker 1: I was really managing everything from like the sales part, 95 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:20,750 Speaker 1: getting the client in to 96 00:04:20,967 --> 00:04:24,497 Speaker 1: fill a project and then to managing the team members 97 00:04:24,505 --> 00:04:27,386 Speaker 1: and then the administration part of things and all that. 98 00:04:27,397 --> 00:04:31,005 Speaker 1: So it was during a conversation with a business coach 99 00:04:31,226 --> 00:04:33,666 Speaker 1: and then he said, I think you need to get 100 00:04:33,677 --> 00:04:37,015 Speaker 1: somebody in to work alongside you to maybe be like 101 00:04:37,027 --> 00:04:39,986 Speaker 1: a co-founder of sorts to take on more of the 102 00:04:39,997 --> 00:04:43,426 Speaker 1: operational role while you focus a lot more on the 103 00:04:43,437 --> 00:04:45,147 Speaker 1: people side of things, which is like 104 00:04:45,243 --> 00:04:48,074 Speaker 1: the sales part of things, the pr work and stuff 105 00:04:48,084 --> 00:04:50,623 Speaker 1: like that. And that's when I decided to ask Kelvin, hey, 106 00:04:50,634 --> 00:04:53,093 Speaker 1: do you think you might be open to this idea? 107 00:04:53,694 --> 00:04:56,803 Speaker 1: Was it also because you recognize that there were certain 108 00:04:56,813 --> 00:04:59,144 Speaker 1: things that you were not so good at and you 109 00:04:59,153 --> 00:05:02,373 Speaker 1: needed to find somebody who was complimentary and did Kelvin 110 00:05:02,384 --> 00:05:06,063 Speaker 1: happen to have those traits? Yeah, I think definitely for me, 111 00:05:06,074 --> 00:05:09,424 Speaker 1: I'm more of a big picture person. I don't. 112 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,740 Speaker 1: So that, that's the right way to describe myself, but 113 00:05:11,751 --> 00:05:15,351 Speaker 1: I'm not really that much into the details of things, right? 114 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,401 Speaker 1: So I do things fast. I do things quick. I 115 00:05:18,411 --> 00:05:20,170 Speaker 1: can get a bit impatient. So he calls me a 116 00:05:20,180 --> 00:05:23,371 Speaker 1: bit like a road runner sometimes. Yeah, he calls me 117 00:05:23,380 --> 00:05:25,730 Speaker 1: a road runner, but he's the opposite of that. He's 118 00:05:25,740 --> 00:05:30,110 Speaker 1: very careful. He's very conscientious. He's all about the details. Hm. Yeah. 119 00:05:30,121 --> 00:05:32,501 Speaker 1: So it makes him a very good fit for the 120 00:05:32,510 --> 00:05:33,580 Speaker 1: roles that I cannot do. 121 00:05:34,269 --> 00:05:36,049 Speaker 1: And I don't want to ask Kelvin, right? When Crystal 122 00:05:36,059 --> 00:05:40,049 Speaker 1: asked you that question about joining her, what were your considerations? 123 00:05:40,059 --> 00:05:42,450 Speaker 1: Was it like? Yeah, let's do it or was it like, 124 00:05:42,459 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 1: should I do it? You know what went through your mind. 125 00:05:44,369 --> 00:05:46,250 Speaker 1: So I think at that point of time, right? What 126 00:05:46,260 --> 00:05:48,929 Speaker 1: went through my mind was whether she can cope with 127 00:05:48,940 --> 00:05:52,428 Speaker 1: the baggage that she has in her personal life, especially 128 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,019 Speaker 1: at that time when she just gave birth. Yeah. And 129 00:05:55,029 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: when I first came in, it was on a part 130 00:05:57,488 --> 00:06:00,690 Speaker 1: time position. So to answer your question, 131 00:06:00,975 --> 00:06:03,993 Speaker 1: I came in like that there wasn't much consideration she 132 00:06:04,005 --> 00:06:07,174 Speaker 1: asked me and I just said, ok, let's just do it. Yeah, 133 00:06:07,184 --> 00:06:09,643 Speaker 1: since you know, you need somebody to handle the operational 134 00:06:09,654 --> 00:06:11,855 Speaker 1: side of things, right? So you saw a need, you 135 00:06:11,863 --> 00:06:14,334 Speaker 1: saw it's helping Crystal and starting off as a part 136 00:06:14,345 --> 00:06:16,863 Speaker 1: time role just to kind of understand the business a bit. 137 00:06:16,875 --> 00:06:18,524 Speaker 1: It's a kind of a good way to ease in, right? 138 00:06:18,535 --> 00:06:20,674 Speaker 1: If you start as a part time role is less 139 00:06:20,684 --> 00:06:25,545 Speaker 1: daunting and now you guys lead such an interdependent life. 140 00:06:25,825 --> 00:06:27,165 Speaker 1: Were that ground rules or 141 00:06:27,260 --> 00:06:29,988 Speaker 1: boundaries that you guys talked about along the way? Because 142 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,589 Speaker 1: you said you just kind of fell into it. But 143 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,649 Speaker 1: did you have to set certain ground rules? Definitely such 144 00:06:34,660 --> 00:06:37,589 Speaker 1: as for example, if we were to just lay out 145 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: the roles as it is, right? She handles the sales 146 00:06:40,609 --> 00:06:44,399 Speaker 1: side of things, the pr fulfillment while I handle the 147 00:06:44,410 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: finance aspect of the business, the hr and the marketing. 148 00:06:49,109 --> 00:06:52,630 Speaker 1: So this is broadly what we actually separate ourselves from. 149 00:06:52,730 --> 00:06:53,709 Speaker 1: So when it comes to, 150 00:06:53,755 --> 00:06:56,214 Speaker 1: to discussions, of course, I reach out to her and 151 00:06:56,225 --> 00:06:58,355 Speaker 1: she would also reach out to me for advice. But 152 00:06:58,363 --> 00:07:03,095 Speaker 1: one good thing about being so role specific is that 153 00:07:03,105 --> 00:07:06,794 Speaker 1: we do not actually cross each other's boundaries when it 154 00:07:06,803 --> 00:07:09,554 Speaker 1: comes to things that we are managing. Yeah, but then 155 00:07:09,565 --> 00:07:12,084 Speaker 1: she's still ceo though. So will she at the end 156 00:07:12,095 --> 00:07:14,515 Speaker 1: of the day still have the final word in certain 157 00:07:14,524 --> 00:07:16,644 Speaker 1: days if she really feels so strongly about it? Yeah. 158 00:07:16,654 --> 00:07:20,165 Speaker 1: So for me myself personally, whenever I make a decision, right, 159 00:07:20,250 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: please put it in mind to actually ask her before 160 00:07:22,649 --> 00:07:25,850 Speaker 1: I proceed forward. And that is my personal protocol. Yeah, 161 00:07:25,859 --> 00:07:28,929 Speaker 1: because I think it is important that she knows specific 162 00:07:28,940 --> 00:07:32,100 Speaker 1: things about a company, especially since she's the boss right 163 00:07:32,119 --> 00:07:35,790 Speaker 1: before we move forward together. So I would also consult 164 00:07:35,799 --> 00:07:38,549 Speaker 1: her on certain things where I'm not sure of. This 165 00:07:38,559 --> 00:07:40,369 Speaker 1: is how we keep ourselves both in check at the 166 00:07:40,380 --> 00:07:44,299 Speaker 1: same time, you know, work together harmoniously. Yeah. How about 167 00:07:44,309 --> 00:07:46,660 Speaker 1: for you crystal? Yeah, I think same 168 00:07:46,744 --> 00:07:49,575 Speaker 1: way as well. Like whenever there are certain things that 169 00:07:49,584 --> 00:07:52,424 Speaker 1: maybe are a bit more complicated, then I will also 170 00:07:52,434 --> 00:07:55,725 Speaker 1: seek his input because naturally I would see things from 171 00:07:55,734 --> 00:07:58,795 Speaker 1: this way, but he comes in with a different perspective 172 00:07:58,864 --> 00:08:01,595 Speaker 1: then I think that adds a lot of value. So yeah, 173 00:08:01,605 --> 00:08:04,975 Speaker 1: so that's one earlier, you were talking about ground rules, right? 174 00:08:04,984 --> 00:08:07,484 Speaker 1: I don't think we actually really sat down and said, OK, 175 00:08:07,494 --> 00:08:09,515 Speaker 1: this is how we are going to communicate with each other. 176 00:08:09,575 --> 00:08:12,204 Speaker 1: Like we're not going to fight after this timing or whatever. No. Like, 177 00:08:12,214 --> 00:08:13,165 Speaker 1: you know, I don't, 178 00:08:13,239 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: I think we have that but I remember there was 179 00:08:15,450 --> 00:08:17,309 Speaker 1: one period where, like we didn't see eye to eye 180 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,369 Speaker 1: on a lot of things. And during that period, I 181 00:08:19,380 --> 00:08:21,970 Speaker 1: remember we had this conversation where we said that the 182 00:08:21,980 --> 00:08:25,579 Speaker 1: marriage comes above the business. Yeah. So even if the 183 00:08:25,589 --> 00:08:28,019 Speaker 1: business fails, the thing that we have to hold on 184 00:08:28,029 --> 00:08:30,670 Speaker 1: to is our marriage. So I think that is what 185 00:08:30,679 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: to me is very clear. Ok, so if I were 186 00:08:33,650 --> 00:08:36,039 Speaker 1: to play devil's advocate, right? I mean, I love that 187 00:08:36,049 --> 00:08:38,069 Speaker 1: line that you said, you know, the marriage comes first 188 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,659 Speaker 1: because I do also believe that 189 00:08:39,909 --> 00:08:42,809 Speaker 1: but you have like 1314 people, you know, in your staff. 190 00:08:42,820 --> 00:08:45,710 Speaker 1: So how do you navigate sort of their livelihoods as well? 191 00:08:45,719 --> 00:08:47,770 Speaker 1: But also at the same time protecting your marriage, I 192 00:08:47,780 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: think from the start, right? We've always been very transparent 193 00:08:50,570 --> 00:08:52,710 Speaker 1: with our team members as to how we are doing 194 00:08:52,719 --> 00:08:55,380 Speaker 1: as a business, for example, a team which recently we 195 00:08:55,390 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: talked about the financial situation of things like exactly how 196 00:08:58,210 --> 00:09:00,390 Speaker 1: much revenue we are making, what are our expenses, that 197 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:00,848 Speaker 1: kind of thing, 198 00:09:01,085 --> 00:09:03,645 Speaker 1: right? So in that sense, I have never been afraid 199 00:09:03,655 --> 00:09:05,875 Speaker 1: to say this is not a good month guys and 200 00:09:05,885 --> 00:09:07,635 Speaker 1: this is what we need to buck up on, right? 201 00:09:07,645 --> 00:09:10,765 Speaker 1: So I think from the team's perspective, they know that 202 00:09:10,776 --> 00:09:14,015 Speaker 1: we are really putting in our all for certain aspects 203 00:09:14,026 --> 00:09:16,245 Speaker 1: of work. But at the same time, also to be 204 00:09:16,255 --> 00:09:19,705 Speaker 1: very cognizant of the fact that businesses fail, right? It 205 00:09:19,716 --> 00:09:21,806 Speaker 1: happens regularly. So we should 206 00:09:21,981 --> 00:09:24,540 Speaker 1: I have a backup plan regardless. So since we are 207 00:09:24,552 --> 00:09:27,910 Speaker 1: on that point, when you have any disputes or disagreements 208 00:09:27,921 --> 00:09:30,041 Speaker 1: in the workplace and your employees are there, how do 209 00:09:30,052 --> 00:09:34,122 Speaker 1: you manage that? Ok. I think that one key factor 210 00:09:34,131 --> 00:09:37,562 Speaker 1: is to have an advisor, a mentor. So for the 211 00:09:37,572 --> 00:09:41,161 Speaker 1: both of us, we work together with a few mentors 212 00:09:41,171 --> 00:09:42,910 Speaker 1: specializing in different areas. 213 00:09:43,229 --> 00:09:46,848 Speaker 1: There are times when things get complicated, you know, especially 214 00:09:46,859 --> 00:09:50,218 Speaker 1: when it comes to relationships and before we actually, you know, 215 00:09:50,229 --> 00:09:54,489 Speaker 1: go and confront or trying to solve it on our own, 216 00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:57,169 Speaker 1: Chris and I would take a step back and talk 217 00:09:57,179 --> 00:09:59,590 Speaker 1: about this problem with our mentor first and get his 218 00:09:59,599 --> 00:10:00,770 Speaker 1: advice on how to 219 00:10:00,849 --> 00:10:02,608 Speaker 1: move things forward. I think another thing that helps is 220 00:10:02,619 --> 00:10:06,549 Speaker 1: that we all work remotely, ok? But you all don't 221 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,580 Speaker 1: work remotely, right? Because you all work together, you are 222 00:10:08,590 --> 00:10:10,780 Speaker 1: in the same house. But you mean with the rest 223 00:10:10,789 --> 00:10:13,369 Speaker 1: of your colleagues. So if you have any disagreements, they 224 00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:17,179 Speaker 1: are not watching you guys having it in the office, right? 225 00:10:17,190 --> 00:10:19,750 Speaker 1: You can just turn to him and like go come 226 00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:23,049 Speaker 1: here or you can say, hey, I disagree with me 227 00:10:24,780 --> 00:10:25,989 Speaker 1: in the child's ro room. 228 00:10:27,049 --> 00:10:30,130 Speaker 1: OK. So what are some upsides? You know, being able 229 00:10:30,140 --> 00:10:31,988 Speaker 1: to work with one another. I think one of the 230 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,590 Speaker 1: biggest upsides is that your spouse knows exactly what you 231 00:10:35,599 --> 00:10:38,130 Speaker 1: are busy with and why you have to be busy 232 00:10:38,140 --> 00:10:40,510 Speaker 1: with these things. So it's not like I'm running a 233 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: business and he's not. And then he's thinking, why am 234 00:10:42,770 --> 00:10:44,210 Speaker 1: I spending so much time on this? 235 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,099 Speaker 1: And then he has to step in sometimes when it 236 00:10:46,109 --> 00:10:48,949 Speaker 1: comes to childcare, the fact that we are both running 237 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,090 Speaker 1: a business together and also running a home together, then 238 00:10:52,099 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: we know what areas who needs to support you. But 239 00:10:55,090 --> 00:10:57,348 Speaker 1: so I think there's a bit more alignment in that sense. 240 00:10:57,359 --> 00:11:01,250 Speaker 1: I think we do have certain physical boundaries in place 241 00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:03,849 Speaker 1: such that like whenever we wake up in the morning, 242 00:11:03,859 --> 00:11:06,770 Speaker 1: I would actually detach myself from the house because I 243 00:11:06,780 --> 00:11:09,590 Speaker 1: find that I work better at another location. 244 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:12,789 Speaker 1: Yeah. Occasionally, of course, we work together in the house, 245 00:11:12,799 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: you know, and discuss things. But most of the time 246 00:11:14,969 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: I would be working at maybe my gym area. Ok. 247 00:11:18,690 --> 00:11:20,659 Speaker 1: So I find that because we are together and at 248 00:11:20,669 --> 00:11:23,690 Speaker 1: the same time at different places, it's like your brain 249 00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: computes that there is some sort of a physical difference, right? 250 00:11:27,650 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: So 251 00:11:28,239 --> 00:11:31,140 Speaker 1: your back like how a normal person would go to work. 252 00:11:31,510 --> 00:11:34,039 Speaker 1: And for you, it's like, ok, being in a separate 253 00:11:34,049 --> 00:11:37,020 Speaker 1: place away from her help your brain to mentally adjust 254 00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: to the fact that ok, now you are going to 255 00:11:38,570 --> 00:11:41,739 Speaker 1: play the role of a co-founder rather than it's a 256 00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:45,780 Speaker 1: husband talking to a wife. You capture that perfectly 257 00:11:46,380 --> 00:11:50,228 Speaker 1: because I was also in a similar situation. Same, same, same. Yeah. Yeah. 258 00:11:50,530 --> 00:11:53,219 Speaker 1: What about you, Gerald? Do you have like certain things 259 00:11:53,229 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: that you would set with your wife? Yeah. So like 260 00:11:56,090 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 1: the room that I work off, that's like the office. 261 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:01,039 Speaker 1: So when I go into that room, I'm on like 262 00:12:01,099 --> 00:12:03,530 Speaker 1: office mode. So your wife also knows he's stepping into 263 00:12:03,539 --> 00:12:05,729 Speaker 1: that zone. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that zone where I 264 00:12:05,739 --> 00:12:06,358 Speaker 1: can be 265 00:12:06,466 --> 00:12:09,476 Speaker 1: a bit grumpy, a bit moody and just bashing at 266 00:12:09,486 --> 00:12:12,184 Speaker 1: my keyboards. But outside the room, I think I have 267 00:12:12,195 --> 00:12:15,405 Speaker 1: to manage myself and kind of like switch back to 268 00:12:15,416 --> 00:12:17,684 Speaker 1: the role of a husband. Hopefully I can do that 269 00:12:17,695 --> 00:12:20,814 Speaker 1: well enough. Sometimes the adjustment, you know, just the door. Right. 270 00:12:20,825 --> 00:12:23,026 Speaker 1: Not very far. LA maybe I should learn from Kelvin. 271 00:12:23,035 --> 00:12:26,356 Speaker 1: Go further away and come back and different person, 272 00:12:27,231 --> 00:12:30,660 Speaker 1: you come back, refresh, honey, I'm home. Yeah. What about 273 00:12:30,671 --> 00:12:33,831 Speaker 1: some downsides of working together as a couple? I think 274 00:12:33,841 --> 00:12:36,051 Speaker 1: one of the downsides is that we kind of don't 275 00:12:36,062 --> 00:12:39,511 Speaker 1: really stop talking about work. We don't have that after 276 00:12:39,521 --> 00:12:41,331 Speaker 1: this timing, we're not going to talk about work anymore. 277 00:12:41,341 --> 00:12:43,641 Speaker 1: We don't have that and it's just something that kind 278 00:12:43,651 --> 00:12:45,631 Speaker 1: of pops up into our minds and then we have 279 00:12:45,642 --> 00:12:46,530 Speaker 1: that conversation 280 00:12:46,780 --> 00:12:48,929 Speaker 1: and then maybe it's not so good when our daughter 281 00:12:48,940 --> 00:12:52,218 Speaker 1: is around and then she will just keep screaming for attention. Yeah. 282 00:12:52,229 --> 00:12:55,229 Speaker 1: So that's maybe one of the downsides. Same, same as 283 00:12:55,239 --> 00:12:58,799 Speaker 1: what crystal is thinking occasionally. Our identities are so rooted 284 00:12:58,809 --> 00:13:01,250 Speaker 1: in our work, right? That all we can talk about 285 00:13:01,260 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: is just grow public relations stuff, 286 00:13:03,809 --> 00:13:06,630 Speaker 1: you know. And so, I mean, we make the effort 287 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,369 Speaker 1: to actually remind each other to talk about other things 288 00:13:09,380 --> 00:13:11,478 Speaker 1: for me. I think the downside was that we will 289 00:13:11,489 --> 00:13:13,809 Speaker 1: go back home and I cannot stop talking about my 290 00:13:13,820 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: day because I feel that he understands, right? So I 291 00:13:16,890 --> 00:13:19,130 Speaker 1: would just keep talking and talking and talking and then 292 00:13:19,140 --> 00:13:20,710 Speaker 1: we'll be in bed, we'll still be talking. 293 00:13:21,020 --> 00:13:22,820 Speaker 1: It came to a point where my husband was saying 294 00:13:22,830 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: you need to relax, you need to just stop talking 295 00:13:25,770 --> 00:13:27,780 Speaker 1: about work. And in my head, I didn't see it 296 00:13:27,789 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: as work. I felt that it was just me unloading 297 00:13:30,450 --> 00:13:33,099 Speaker 1: my day. So he had to set a rule for me. 298 00:13:33,109 --> 00:13:35,159 Speaker 1: He said, OK, can we stop talking about work after 299 00:13:35,169 --> 00:13:38,478 Speaker 1: 10 p.m. Because otherwise your brain cannot stop, your brain 300 00:13:38,489 --> 00:13:40,218 Speaker 1: cannot calm down. You keep racing 301 00:13:40,590 --> 00:13:43,119 Speaker 1: and I don't want to keep talking about work as 302 00:13:43,130 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: well to him. It was work. So it took me 303 00:13:45,010 --> 00:13:47,489 Speaker 1: a while to understand that the other thing also, I 304 00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:50,869 Speaker 1: guess we don't always resolve our conflicts, right? Even in 305 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,609 Speaker 1: a work situation or even in the home situation, not 306 00:13:53,619 --> 00:13:56,609 Speaker 1: all conflicts can be resolved immediately say at work. 307 00:13:56,804 --> 00:13:59,304 Speaker 1: I disagree with something that my boss did, but I 308 00:13:59,315 --> 00:14:01,145 Speaker 1: don't have to go home to my boss, but now 309 00:14:01,155 --> 00:14:03,174 Speaker 1: you're going to go home to one another. How do 310 00:14:03,184 --> 00:14:06,114 Speaker 1: you resolve it? Ok. There's something that I think we 311 00:14:06,125 --> 00:14:08,315 Speaker 1: can be quite proud of and is, you know, over 312 00:14:08,325 --> 00:14:11,155 Speaker 1: the years of working together. Right. We have never had 313 00:14:11,385 --> 00:14:12,684 Speaker 1: one big quarrel. 314 00:14:13,330 --> 00:14:15,929 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, yeah, I'm proud to say that because I 315 00:14:15,940 --> 00:14:19,809 Speaker 1: think we are very clear on what we want. And 316 00:14:19,820 --> 00:14:24,150 Speaker 1: also whenever we feel that the discussion is heating up, right? 317 00:14:24,159 --> 00:14:26,630 Speaker 1: For me, myself, I personally take a step back and 318 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,119 Speaker 1: maybe even stop talking about this subject until both of 319 00:14:30,130 --> 00:14:34,219 Speaker 1: us are come down. Yeah, before we approach it again 320 00:14:34,229 --> 00:14:36,729 Speaker 1: in a more clear headed way and I think this 321 00:14:36,739 --> 00:14:37,460 Speaker 1: technique works, 322 00:14:37,676 --> 00:14:40,786 Speaker 1: I noticed something in recent times when we speak, right? 323 00:14:40,796 --> 00:14:43,166 Speaker 1: And then when the conversation gets a bit like intense 324 00:14:43,315 --> 00:14:46,216 Speaker 1: and then each of us will be saying, listen, listen 325 00:14:46,226 --> 00:14:48,825 Speaker 1: to the other person. So that to you is really 326 00:14:48,835 --> 00:14:53,116 Speaker 1: the key. It's like, ok, shut up. It's gonna get 327 00:14:53,125 --> 00:14:55,466 Speaker 1: worse from here. I really need to listen and stop 328 00:14:55,476 --> 00:14:57,656 Speaker 1: talking for a while. So I realized that that is 329 00:14:57,666 --> 00:15:00,645 Speaker 1: what has been happening recently. And also I think we 330 00:15:00,656 --> 00:15:01,895 Speaker 1: are not exactly 331 00:15:02,021 --> 00:15:07,072 Speaker 1: afraid of confrontation. Yeah, we are quite open to taking 332 00:15:07,081 --> 00:15:10,231 Speaker 1: something out and then discussing it versus sweeping it under 333 00:15:10,242 --> 00:15:12,861 Speaker 1: the carpet. So I think that has always been from 334 00:15:12,872 --> 00:15:15,361 Speaker 1: day one. That's why we don't really, like, have things 335 00:15:15,372 --> 00:15:17,711 Speaker 1: bottled up and then kind of explode. Hm. Yeah, I 336 00:15:17,721 --> 00:15:20,711 Speaker 1: think that communication between the both of you is very 337 00:15:20,721 --> 00:15:23,562 Speaker 1: important and I'm hearing like, how you feel comfortable enough 338 00:15:23,572 --> 00:15:25,682 Speaker 1: to be talking about these things, not leaving things under 339 00:15:25,692 --> 00:15:26,281 Speaker 1: the carpet, 340 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,380 Speaker 1: which will blow up later. I think that's a really 341 00:15:28,390 --> 00:15:31,369 Speaker 1: good point, you know, for many husbands wife, because if 342 00:15:31,380 --> 00:15:33,580 Speaker 1: they are working together, I think really talking about the 343 00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:36,690 Speaker 1: difficult things, it allows them to go a lot longer 344 00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:38,330 Speaker 1: in the business. It allows the business to be more 345 00:15:38,340 --> 00:15:41,020 Speaker 1: functional as well. The relationship there. How do you actually 346 00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:43,500 Speaker 1: even carve out time to? Ok, let's sit down and 347 00:15:43,510 --> 00:15:45,690 Speaker 1: talk about it. You know, I am also not afraid 348 00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:48,619 Speaker 1: of confrontation. I just don't have the time to confront. 349 00:15:49,890 --> 00:15:51,969 Speaker 1: It always happens that it's quite on the spot. Like 350 00:15:51,979 --> 00:15:53,989 Speaker 1: whenever there's an issue, then we will just talk about 351 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,380 Speaker 1: it then and there. But you will have to be quick, right? 352 00:15:56,390 --> 00:15:59,530 Speaker 1: It has to go into some philosophical thing. Yeah. So 353 00:15:59,539 --> 00:16:01,260 Speaker 1: you have to be quick and then like, that's where 354 00:16:01,270 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: the communication styles kind of differ. I do go a 355 00:16:04,010 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: bit philosophical and then she'll tell me to shut up, 356 00:16:07,505 --> 00:16:09,405 Speaker 1: can go on and go on. He goes in like 357 00:16:09,414 --> 00:16:11,244 Speaker 1: circles and circles. I was like, ok, what is the 358 00:16:11,255 --> 00:16:13,645 Speaker 1: point here? Yeah. So when she says that doesn't it 359 00:16:13,655 --> 00:16:15,525 Speaker 1: make you even more angry because my husband doesn't get 360 00:16:15,534 --> 00:16:17,804 Speaker 1: to the point. And I'm like, this is the point 361 00:16:18,174 --> 00:16:20,465 Speaker 1: many times when she said that I do reflect. Yeah. 362 00:16:20,474 --> 00:16:22,515 Speaker 1: You know, there are times where I go round and 363 00:16:22,525 --> 00:16:24,395 Speaker 1: round and round, you know, I go off tangent and 364 00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:28,580 Speaker 1: it's important to actually calibrate ourselves and just say things 365 00:16:28,590 --> 00:16:31,159 Speaker 1: straight to the point. Right. So, I agree with her internally. 366 00:16:31,169 --> 00:16:34,070 Speaker 1: So I don't really get even more angry. I'm reminded 367 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: of what you mentioned earlier just now about the decisions 368 00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:39,979 Speaker 1: that you defer back to crystal, right? So I think 369 00:16:39,989 --> 00:16:41,659 Speaker 1: it's not just I'm not sure whether it is it 370 00:16:41,669 --> 00:16:43,299 Speaker 1: fair for me to say this, but it sounds like 371 00:16:43,309 --> 00:16:45,049 Speaker 1: it's more than just a decision. It's like even 372 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,119 Speaker 1: the way you handle the communication, the content of your discussions, right? 373 00:16:49,130 --> 00:16:52,619 Speaker 1: I mean, you are really allowing one decision maker, you know, 374 00:16:52,630 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: to go along with how things should be 375 00:16:55,130 --> 00:16:57,679 Speaker 1: and then you are really trusting in the relationship, trusting 376 00:16:57,690 --> 00:17:00,390 Speaker 1: in her leadership as well so that things could, you know, 377 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,419 Speaker 1: move on because I've seen how couples they really bicker 378 00:17:03,429 --> 00:17:05,930 Speaker 1: because there's a lack of trust between them. They don't 379 00:17:05,939 --> 00:17:08,489 Speaker 1: see how the other person can make a better decision 380 00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:10,729 Speaker 1: than them. So then it gets to a point where 381 00:17:10,739 --> 00:17:12,579 Speaker 1: the discussion becomes heated and then after a while it 382 00:17:12,589 --> 00:17:15,750 Speaker 1: becomes no point to discuss. Yeah. And then that will 383 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,630 Speaker 1: be like maybe that point where they say, maybe we 384 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,150 Speaker 1: don't want to work together. Yeah. Right. 385 00:17:19,234 --> 00:17:21,454 Speaker 1: So, what do you guys think will be that point 386 00:17:21,464 --> 00:17:24,645 Speaker 1: where you go? Ok, we can't work together anymore because 387 00:17:24,655 --> 00:17:27,254 Speaker 1: it's important to save the marriage. Maybe if it gets 388 00:17:27,265 --> 00:17:29,785 Speaker 1: to a point where we are fighting a lot, maybe 389 00:17:29,795 --> 00:17:32,534 Speaker 1: it's not a result of the business, but maybe it's 390 00:17:32,545 --> 00:17:35,885 Speaker 1: a result of a relationship problem. That kind of, you 391 00:17:35,895 --> 00:17:39,155 Speaker 1: see the results of it in arguments whether it's at 392 00:17:39,165 --> 00:17:41,554 Speaker 1: work or at home. So maybe it's not really the business, 393 00:17:41,564 --> 00:17:44,185 Speaker 1: but maybe it's the marriage itself that you need to 394 00:17:44,194 --> 00:17:47,214 Speaker 1: take a look at. Yeah. Possibly because maybe the 395 00:17:47,479 --> 00:17:51,079 Speaker 1: business itself is just the situation that amplifies what the 396 00:17:51,089 --> 00:17:53,959 Speaker 1: cracks are already there. Yeah. It's like maybe a pressure cooker, right? 397 00:17:54,189 --> 00:17:56,390 Speaker 1: That causes your problems to go up to the surface 398 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:57,698 Speaker 1: and then if you don't resolve them. 399 00:17:58,969 --> 00:18:01,229 Speaker 1: Ok. Yeah. So for me, I also think that pride 400 00:18:01,239 --> 00:18:05,030 Speaker 1: is the underlying issue here. So whenever we reach a 401 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,380 Speaker 1: point where we feel that one party has to make 402 00:18:07,390 --> 00:18:10,229 Speaker 1: a decision, for me, I feel that my pride is 403 00:18:10,239 --> 00:18:13,300 Speaker 1: less important than the business moving forward. So when it 404 00:18:13,310 --> 00:18:16,010 Speaker 1: comes to decision making, it's easier for me to just 405 00:18:16,020 --> 00:18:19,069 Speaker 1: let her make the decision so that we can all 406 00:18:19,079 --> 00:18:21,469 Speaker 1: move all together. Yeah. Well, I love what you said 407 00:18:21,479 --> 00:18:21,790 Speaker 1: about that 408 00:18:21,885 --> 00:18:24,905 Speaker 1: pride part, right? Because it's like driving a car, you know, 409 00:18:24,915 --> 00:18:26,974 Speaker 1: you can only have one driver, you can't have the 410 00:18:26,984 --> 00:18:28,854 Speaker 1: passenger telling you you're driving all wrong. You are a 411 00:18:28,864 --> 00:18:31,254 Speaker 1: poor driver. I think it really doesn't do the marriage 412 00:18:31,265 --> 00:18:33,525 Speaker 1: or even the business doesn't do it well. And you 413 00:18:33,535 --> 00:18:35,814 Speaker 1: may even get into an accident. Right. Exactly. You guys 414 00:18:35,824 --> 00:18:38,484 Speaker 1: sound like you have the dream partnership here. I think so. Yeah, 415 00:18:38,494 --> 00:18:41,354 Speaker 1: because Kelvin definitely right from the beginning, the word that 416 00:18:41,364 --> 00:18:42,864 Speaker 1: came to my mind when he was sharing is that 417 00:18:42,875 --> 00:18:44,944 Speaker 1: he has a lot of respect for Crystal 418 00:18:45,219 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: and Crystal also has a lot of respect for what 419 00:18:47,209 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: he does as well. And Crystal is also very self-aware 420 00:18:50,050 --> 00:18:52,380 Speaker 1: of what she's good at and what she's not good at, 421 00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:56,099 Speaker 1: which is why she doesn't overstep that boundary. Not every 422 00:18:56,109 --> 00:18:58,448 Speaker 1: couple can work together. And I think you guys have 423 00:18:58,459 --> 00:19:02,500 Speaker 1: definitely found what works for you, but not every couple can. 424 00:19:02,650 --> 00:19:05,170 Speaker 1: You know, I think there's sometimes there's merit in separate 425 00:19:05,265 --> 00:19:07,625 Speaker 1: your work and your personal life like and even for 426 00:19:07,635 --> 00:19:10,454 Speaker 1: Kelvin as well. You know, you packing your bag and 427 00:19:10,464 --> 00:19:12,295 Speaker 1: leaving the house in the morning is kind of a 428 00:19:12,305 --> 00:19:14,594 Speaker 1: bit of a separation for you too so that you 429 00:19:14,604 --> 00:19:16,864 Speaker 1: can come home fully as a dad. So thank you 430 00:19:16,875 --> 00:19:19,604 Speaker 1: Crystal and Kelvin for sharing the realities of what is 431 00:19:19,614 --> 00:19:22,405 Speaker 1: it like to both be a partner at life and 432 00:19:22,415 --> 00:19:25,125 Speaker 1: also at work. Thank you. Thank you for having us. 433 00:19:29,380 --> 00:19:33,219 Speaker 1: We are back. It's our ask me anything segment where 434 00:19:33,229 --> 00:19:37,609 Speaker 1: Gerald answers a work related question you have. Imagine you're 435 00:19:37,619 --> 00:19:42,250 Speaker 1: in a career counseling room, get comfy and listen on Gerald. 436 00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:45,709 Speaker 1: Today's question is I'm getting promoted ahead of my peers. 437 00:19:45,790 --> 00:19:49,599 Speaker 1: How do I manage them? So, things aren't awkward or difficult. 438 00:19:49,819 --> 00:19:52,329 Speaker 1: First things first, I want to know. Right. What are 439 00:19:52,339 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: some potential problems that may happen when dynamics change? Ah, 440 00:19:57,125 --> 00:19:59,344 Speaker 1: ok. When you have just been promoted, your team will 441 00:19:59,354 --> 00:20:01,343 Speaker 1: look differently at you because they know that you have 442 00:20:01,354 --> 00:20:04,785 Speaker 1: new shoes to fill. Ok, you have new responsibilities to fulfill. 443 00:20:04,915 --> 00:20:07,295 Speaker 1: So I guess they are expecting more out of you, 444 00:20:07,354 --> 00:20:09,464 Speaker 1: even if you will be expecting more of yourself as well, 445 00:20:09,474 --> 00:20:11,435 Speaker 1: because you feel like you need to do a good 446 00:20:11,444 --> 00:20:12,504 Speaker 1: job right? From day one. 447 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,449 Speaker 1: So I think those expectations hit you right away. I 448 00:20:15,459 --> 00:20:18,060 Speaker 1: guess one of the things that people will probably consider 449 00:20:18,069 --> 00:20:20,979 Speaker 1: is there may be some jealousy also among your team 450 00:20:20,989 --> 00:20:23,050 Speaker 1: as well. People might accuse you of, I don't know, 451 00:20:23,060 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: pulling rank with certain decisions that you choose to make. 452 00:20:27,410 --> 00:20:29,849 Speaker 1: I mean, these are like once upon a time your peers, right? 453 00:20:29,859 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 1: So you expect them to kind of know you a 454 00:20:31,729 --> 00:20:32,500 Speaker 1: bit better, but 455 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,209 Speaker 1: you know, some of these dynamics do change and evolve 456 00:20:35,219 --> 00:20:36,910 Speaker 1: a little bit whether you like it or not. Yeah, 457 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,530 Speaker 1: I do see that happening in many, many workplaces. So 458 00:20:39,540 --> 00:20:42,020 Speaker 1: I think it's very natural for people to feel like 459 00:20:42,030 --> 00:20:45,379 Speaker 1: they lost out in the promotion, maybe not openly go 460 00:20:45,390 --> 00:20:48,739 Speaker 1: against you. But I think definitely behind the scenes Right. 461 00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:51,409 Speaker 1: There's a lot of maybe politics going on. They are 462 00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:53,989 Speaker 1: also assessing you almost every single day. Right. And possibly, 463 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,060 Speaker 1: maybe they might hold you up to those expectations. You know, 464 00:20:57,290 --> 00:21:00,010 Speaker 1: I've ever seen before. Someone who used to be peers 465 00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: just because one of them got promoted, then the dynamics 466 00:21:03,810 --> 00:21:06,209 Speaker 1: between them changed quite a fair bit because the one 467 00:21:06,219 --> 00:21:08,589 Speaker 1: that didn't get promoted started to say things like, oh, 468 00:21:08,599 --> 00:21:10,948 Speaker 1: you should know at your pay grade. If today we 469 00:21:10,959 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: can get past those feelings. I think we can maybe 470 00:21:14,050 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: look to the next promotion cycle. Ok? And maybe then 471 00:21:16,369 --> 00:21:18,089 Speaker 1: it will be our turn. So how do you manage 472 00:21:18,099 --> 00:21:19,619 Speaker 1: these people? You still have to get to the next 473 00:21:19,630 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: promotion cycle. So how do you manage your team if 474 00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:25,859 Speaker 1: you are already getting promoted ahead of them? I think 475 00:21:25,869 --> 00:21:27,349 Speaker 1: the first advice I would give is 476 00:21:27,469 --> 00:21:29,910 Speaker 1: normal. The world doesn't change just because you've been promoted. 477 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,550 Speaker 1: So be normal. Go about your normal work the way 478 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,569 Speaker 1: you've been working. It's what got you there in the 479 00:21:34,579 --> 00:21:37,579 Speaker 1: first place. So just be secure, just work as normally 480 00:21:37,589 --> 00:21:41,089 Speaker 1: as possible. I think also start to maybe reassure the 481 00:21:41,099 --> 00:21:43,540 Speaker 1: team that you are working closely with that. You are 482 00:21:43,550 --> 00:21:47,030 Speaker 1: still the same person. You could maybe show gratitude towards 483 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,260 Speaker 1: their support for you and how they have helped you 484 00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:51,050 Speaker 1: to rise and get a promotion 485 00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:54,188 Speaker 1: and how you are there to also service and support them, right? 486 00:21:54,199 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: So availing yourself as a leader, as a manager to 487 00:21:57,170 --> 00:21:59,179 Speaker 1: pave the way for them and allowing them to have 488 00:21:59,189 --> 00:22:01,810 Speaker 1: the open door access to you whenever they have problems. 489 00:22:01,819 --> 00:22:04,369 Speaker 1: I think it really shows them and reassures them that 490 00:22:04,540 --> 00:22:06,489 Speaker 1: you're not there to lord over them, but you are 491 00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:08,569 Speaker 1: there to really support them and help them as well. 492 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,260 Speaker 1: Of course, the practical stuff, right. With the promotion blan them, 493 00:22:12,270 --> 00:22:14,419 Speaker 1: you know, treat them for a meal, bring them out. 494 00:22:14,430 --> 00:22:16,579 Speaker 1: I remembered in the past we always look forward to 495 00:22:16,589 --> 00:22:20,389 Speaker 1: that department lunch that is sponsored by all the promotes, right? 496 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,739 Speaker 1: And then because we know the more promote they are 497 00:22:22,819 --> 00:22:25,589 Speaker 1: the more expensive, the lunch. Yeah, the more expensive the lunch. 498 00:22:25,819 --> 00:22:28,329 Speaker 1: Because if it's one person promoted, right, then the poor 499 00:22:28,339 --> 00:22:30,349 Speaker 1: person had to pay for the whole department. But if 500 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:30,948 Speaker 1: it's like five 501 00:22:31,319 --> 00:22:34,050 Speaker 1: promoted, let's go for Korean barbecue. Let's go, let's go 502 00:22:34,060 --> 00:22:36,770 Speaker 1: for a buffet, you know, at a hotel, right. So, yeah, 503 00:22:36,780 --> 00:22:39,389 Speaker 1: I mean, doing things like that to just celebrate together. 504 00:22:39,739 --> 00:22:41,489 Speaker 1: I think that will be some of the advice that 505 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:43,589 Speaker 1: I will give. I think one of the things that 506 00:22:43,599 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people would do maybe, I mean, just casually, right? 507 00:22:46,810 --> 00:22:49,150 Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes we say talk bad about our bosses 508 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: or certain decisions that our bosses made we don't like 509 00:22:51,530 --> 00:22:53,188 Speaker 1: and then we talk behind their backs 510 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,839 Speaker 1: now that obviously I'm the boss. I mean, surely there 511 00:22:56,849 --> 00:22:58,969 Speaker 1: is a chance that I could be part of that 512 00:22:58,979 --> 00:23:01,218 Speaker 1: whole gossip. I mean, how do I deal with that? 513 00:23:01,229 --> 00:23:04,890 Speaker 1: And am I overthinking things? Hm. Ok. It's bound to happen. 514 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:06,979 Speaker 1: I guess the rest of the team would be more 515 00:23:06,989 --> 00:23:10,979 Speaker 1: comfortable to have their own conversations about your decisions. Maybe 516 00:23:10,989 --> 00:23:14,060 Speaker 1: not so much about you. Not every conversation is about 517 00:23:14,069 --> 00:23:14,619 Speaker 1: your own 518 00:23:14,782 --> 00:23:17,412 Speaker 1: personal attributes or the way you manage things, but maybe 519 00:23:17,422 --> 00:23:19,363 Speaker 1: it's about the work and we all know this, right? 520 00:23:19,373 --> 00:23:21,402 Speaker 1: Like the whatsapp group that's created that doesn't have the 521 00:23:21,412 --> 00:23:23,703 Speaker 1: boss inside. Yeah, there definitely be a new whatsapp group 522 00:23:23,713 --> 00:23:26,182 Speaker 1: without you. Yes. So I think as bosses, if you 523 00:23:26,192 --> 00:23:28,142 Speaker 1: are promoted to lead a team in that way, you 524 00:23:28,152 --> 00:23:29,723 Speaker 1: have to be comfortable with that, you have to be 525 00:23:29,733 --> 00:23:32,652 Speaker 1: secure in yourself, that the team needs to do what 526 00:23:32,662 --> 00:23:35,092 Speaker 1: they need to do and maybe they do need to 527 00:23:35,103 --> 00:23:35,672 Speaker 1: have the time to 528 00:23:36,276 --> 00:23:38,705 Speaker 1: and work out some of the kings and the knots 529 00:23:38,715 --> 00:23:40,546 Speaker 1: in the work challenge that you have given to them 530 00:23:40,556 --> 00:23:43,026 Speaker 1: to do. Maybe they don't want you to see those things, right? 531 00:23:43,166 --> 00:23:45,594 Speaker 1: So don't think about it as that they are talking 532 00:23:45,605 --> 00:23:47,754 Speaker 1: bad about you that makes you come across as an 533 00:23:47,765 --> 00:23:50,984 Speaker 1: insecure person. And I think it's a downward spiral from 534 00:23:50,994 --> 00:23:53,436 Speaker 1: there on. Then you become the insecure leader, then you 535 00:23:53,446 --> 00:23:56,326 Speaker 1: become a micro manager, then you become the super sensitive 536 00:23:56,336 --> 00:23:59,666 Speaker 1: person and it's really very hard to recover from that. 537 00:23:59,910 --> 00:24:03,968 Speaker 1: This affects the reputation and also the credibility maybe of 538 00:24:03,979 --> 00:24:06,609 Speaker 1: this leader. Yeah. So if you are in that situation, 539 00:24:06,619 --> 00:24:10,379 Speaker 1: find new friends for lunch, go find other bosses and 540 00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:13,290 Speaker 1: maybe that's a good thing because you're expected to do that. Right. 541 00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:16,609 Speaker 1: If today I see my boss just eating lunch alone 542 00:24:16,619 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: in the office, I'll be worried. That's true because they 543 00:24:19,209 --> 00:24:21,650 Speaker 1: have no peer friends. Yeah. And as a leader of 544 00:24:21,660 --> 00:24:25,890 Speaker 1: the department of the team, you are expected to broker, negotiate, 545 00:24:25,900 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: work across departments. So if today as a boss, if 546 00:24:28,530 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: you are outgoing, 547 00:24:29,373 --> 00:24:33,522 Speaker 1: you are meeting other departments to bridge alliances, uh to 548 00:24:33,532 --> 00:24:35,883 Speaker 1: sort our workplace relationships, I think that's great. You know, 549 00:24:35,892 --> 00:24:37,811 Speaker 1: that really helps everybody get their work done in a 550 00:24:37,821 --> 00:24:40,592 Speaker 1: more efficient way. That's a very good perspective to have. 551 00:24:40,603 --> 00:24:44,012 Speaker 1: If your peer, your batch mate is promoted, I think, 552 00:24:44,022 --> 00:24:45,883 Speaker 1: be happy for them. You know, they are also using 553 00:24:45,892 --> 00:24:48,353 Speaker 1: the opportunity where they have the extra title to go 554 00:24:48,363 --> 00:24:50,652 Speaker 1: and make friends, make other alliances that may actually make 555 00:24:50,662 --> 00:24:53,333 Speaker 1: your life better. Yeah, that's right. So your title doesn't 556 00:24:53,343 --> 00:24:56,032 Speaker 1: just come with expectations. It comes with a lot more 557 00:24:56,042 --> 00:24:58,753 Speaker 1: responsibilities and you have to exercise those. Well, 558 00:24:58,836 --> 00:25:00,725 Speaker 1: you know, there are things that you can do as 559 00:25:00,734 --> 00:25:04,754 Speaker 1: a promote as a leader that your team members can't do. Right. 560 00:25:04,765 --> 00:25:07,046 Speaker 1: So we have to recognize what are some of these 561 00:25:07,086 --> 00:25:09,875 Speaker 1: responsibilities we have because there are other people in the 562 00:25:09,885 --> 00:25:13,005 Speaker 1: team that's waiting for us to facilitate their work. Well, 563 00:25:13,015 --> 00:25:15,336 Speaker 1: thank you. So much. We hope you found this helpful 564 00:25:15,345 --> 00:25:17,885 Speaker 1: to you. Especially to you, our listener who wrote in 565 00:25:17,895 --> 00:25:20,775 Speaker 1: to us again, we are on our usual CN a 566 00:25:20,786 --> 00:25:24,494 Speaker 1: social channels. Leave us a comment on Spotify, write to us. 567 00:25:24,505 --> 00:25:27,066 Speaker 1: Remember to send us your burning questions for Gerald and 568 00:25:27,076 --> 00:25:28,176 Speaker 1: I'll help you ask them 569 00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:31,810 Speaker 1: the team behind the work it podcast is Christina Robert, 570 00:25:31,829 --> 00:25:36,270 Speaker 1: Joan Chan, Jaini, Johari, Sa Wind and Ross Le Put 571 00:25:36,579 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 1: C mixing is by Kerri Lim. This is Tiffany and 572 00:25:39,969 --> 00:25:42,489 Speaker 1: I'm Gerald. So sending you lots of love for the 573 00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:43,829 Speaker 1: upcoming workweek. Thank you.