WEBVTT - Your last goodbye, the eco-friendly way 0:00:00.100 --> 0:00:02.450 This is AC N A podcast. 0:00:05.940 --> 0:00:09.689 Welcome to the Climate Conversations. I'm your host, Julie Yu. 0:00:10.140 --> 0:00:12.649 But today we are taking on a topic that might 0:00:12.659 --> 0:00:16.059 make some of you a little uncomfortable death, 0:00:16.819 --> 0:00:19.270 but do stick with me here because we are going 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.509 to explore how we can make our final footprint on 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.340 the planet a little greener when my time comes, I 0:00:26.350 --> 0:00:29.610 want my funeral to be a celebration of my life 0:00:29.620 --> 0:00:32.939 but also a way to minimize my impact on the environment. 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.389 Are you curious about how you can do the same? Well, 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.199 I have the right person joining me today who knows 0:00:39.209 --> 0:00:42.630 a thing or two about death care practices and sustainability. 0:00:42.909 --> 0:00:44.159 His name is an, 0:00:45.076 --> 0:00:49.015 the managing director of Ang Mo funeral directors, one of 0:00:49.026 --> 0:00:53.945 the oldest and largest funeral companies in Singapore, Duan. Thank 0:00:53.956 --> 0:00:56.346 you for joining me on the Climate conversations. Thank you 0:00:56.355 --> 0:00:58.756 for having me here. I understand that this is a 0:00:58.765 --> 0:01:02.346 family business with a long history that was started by 0:01:02.355 --> 0:01:06.776 your great grandfather and you officially started as director almost 0:01:06.786 --> 0:01:10.816 20 years ago. You must have witnessed or received different 0:01:10.825 --> 0:01:12.875 kinds of the special request 0:01:12.952 --> 0:01:16.512 from families. Were there any particular end of life ceremonies 0:01:16.522 --> 0:01:20.491 that you found just powerfully poignant or memorable one way 0:01:20.501 --> 0:01:23.280 or the other. There are many in my 1st 10 years. 0:01:23.291 --> 0:01:26.491 I actually served more than 3000 families. So, you know, families, 0:01:26.501 --> 0:01:29.192 they come from all walks of life. I have served 0:01:29.202 --> 0:01:33.872 family who has multiple spouses serve families who have quarl 0:01:33.882 --> 0:01:37.640 over religion, which is very common, especially in Singapore. We 0:01:37.652 --> 0:01:40.941 also have served with no families who want for green 0:01:41.017 --> 0:01:44.068 conservation efforts as well. We have done funerals, for example, 0:01:44.078 --> 0:01:46.337 when a person likes golf so much, then we decorate 0:01:46.347 --> 0:01:48.968 the entire place just like a country club. So this 0:01:48.977 --> 0:01:51.508 S S C C table, that's a Sentosa table. That's 0:01:51.517 --> 0:01:54.477 another country club table. So that's interesting and this is 0:01:54.487 --> 0:01:57.788 how he wants his loved ones, his golf k to 0:01:57.797 --> 0:02:00.938 remember him. So we try to fulfill all wishes as 0:02:00.947 --> 0:02:04.038 much as we can within the legal boundaries. Yeah, every 0:02:04.047 --> 0:02:08.427 funeral is unique and special in its own way. Trend wise, 0:02:08.438 --> 0:02:09.007 have much 0:02:09.083 --> 0:02:11.964 changed or evolved in how funerals are carried out in 0:02:11.973 --> 0:02:14.744 Singapore over the years. I think trends wise. It has 0:02:14.752 --> 0:02:17.813 changed a lot. I entered in the profession in 1995. 0:02:17.824 --> 0:02:20.952 It was very traditional. You have more burials today. You 0:02:20.964 --> 0:02:24.502 have about 82% cremation back then in the 19 eighties 0:02:24.514 --> 0:02:27.994 and nineties, the numbers for cremation is very low. Singaporeans 0:02:28.002 --> 0:02:31.393 do their funeral predominantly based on two factors. One is 0:02:31.404 --> 0:02:35.964 how the regulations shapes behavior and second is acceptance by 0:02:35.973 --> 0:02:36.994 people as well. 0:02:37.149 --> 0:02:40.490 So for instance, burials used to be on perpetual freehold land. 0:02:40.589 --> 0:02:44.419 And in the year 1998 the government agencies changed the 0:02:44.429 --> 0:02:48.440 land policy of 15 years to optimize land policy. And 0:02:48.449 --> 0:02:52.299 that shapes the behavior between burial versus cremation. Ok. So 0:02:52.309 --> 0:02:55.759 please walk us through the process from when you received 0:02:55.770 --> 0:02:59.000 the body from the family to the actual funeral or 0:02:59.008 --> 0:03:02.038 the ceremony when we receive the first call. And through 0:03:02.050 --> 0:03:04.619 the first call, we will get some basic information when 0:03:04.630 --> 0:03:05.139 the disease is 0:03:05.216 --> 0:03:08.406 pass on, what's the primary cause of death? And we 0:03:08.416 --> 0:03:10.845 will go over to the place of death to transport 0:03:10.856 --> 0:03:13.334 the beloved to our care center. And this is where 0:03:13.345 --> 0:03:16.484 the family will have funeral arrangements together with us. And 0:03:16.496 --> 0:03:20.204 from there, we will understand the preferences of the families. 0:03:20.216 --> 0:03:22.615 What are the last wishes of the deceased person which 0:03:22.626 --> 0:03:25.615 we call beloved. One can choose to have embalming and 0:03:25.626 --> 0:03:28.984 one can choose not to have embalming. Once embalming is performed, 0:03:28.996 --> 0:03:31.406 it allows the family to view from the first day 0:03:31.416 --> 0:03:33.166 to the last day, which typically in singing 0:03:33.281 --> 0:03:36.462 funs are conducted on average of five days. Is it 0:03:36.472 --> 0:03:39.341 an intricate process to embalm? It is definitely an intricate 0:03:39.352 --> 0:03:43.832 process because embalming is art and science. So it requires 0:03:43.841 --> 0:03:48.421 qualified embalmers, good quality embalming chemicals and also dependent on 0:03:48.432 --> 0:03:50.412 the cause of death. And we will just make sure 0:03:50.421 --> 0:03:53.731 that the disease appear good in the next few days 0:03:53.742 --> 0:03:57.212 to allow the family members to grieve. So there are 0:03:57.222 --> 0:04:01.001 multiple ways to return to the earth. But just how 0:04:01.011 --> 0:04:01.251 much 0:04:01.348 --> 0:04:04.167 impact they have on the environment is the question here. 0:04:04.177 --> 0:04:06.307 So let's go through some of the methods. Maybe you 0:04:06.317 --> 0:04:09.638 can walk us through, maybe the benefits, the drawbacks. What 0:04:09.647 --> 0:04:13.367 goes into the process? Let's start with the cremation. You 0:04:13.378 --> 0:04:16.837 did mention it's the most common method in Singapore. Surely 0:04:16.847 --> 0:04:19.888 it takes up a little space. But the environmental impact 0:04:19.907 --> 0:04:23.727 in Singapore, we have a very interesting situation. As compared 0:04:23.738 --> 0:04:27.687 to other countries. We are relatively small in size. Cremation 0:04:27.697 --> 0:04:29.337 does emits a lot 0:04:29.414 --> 0:04:32.394 of carbon emissions. But it is also the same for 0:04:32.403 --> 0:04:36.053 other forms. It's just whether is it directly or indirectly, 0:04:36.384 --> 0:04:38.664 it there are many different methods but of course, the 0:04:38.674 --> 0:04:41.383 most natural way is to do burial. But burrow in 0:04:41.394 --> 0:04:44.484 what forms burial in the way that Singapore de takes 0:04:44.493 --> 0:04:46.963 or burial in the most natural form as in, you know, 0:04:46.973 --> 0:04:50.342 going into the forest, just bury it just wearing biodegradable 0:04:50.354 --> 0:04:54.384 clothings and without any graveyards. So for instance, there is 0:04:54.394 --> 0:04:56.873 a lot of bars over this green world called aqua. 0:04:57.738 --> 0:05:01.570 Then process also has the use of energy as well. 0:05:01.660 --> 0:05:05.779 What goes into that process? A is actually alkaline hydrolysis. 0:05:05.790 --> 0:05:10.969 It uses water and strong chemicals. Example, sodium hydroxide, potassium 0:05:10.980 --> 0:05:14.010 hydroxide with a mix of them. How toxic is that? 0:05:14.019 --> 0:05:17.238 There aren't many studies to say how toxic it is 0:05:17.250 --> 0:05:20.109 because the adoption rate is not very high. But what 0:05:20.119 --> 0:05:23.019 we must also remember here is actually a measurement, some 0:05:23.029 --> 0:05:24.738 of them might say it is very green. You are 0:05:24.750 --> 0:05:25.469 not using, 0:05:25.700 --> 0:05:29.640 burning more fuel for the cremation, but you are also 0:05:29.649 --> 0:05:33.078 actually using energy for this process as well. Next will 0:05:33.089 --> 0:05:36.440 be after this is being done, there are also waste 0:05:36.450 --> 0:05:39.868 water and how is this waste water being discharged into 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.420 our public sewage system which eventually leads to our new 0:05:43.428 --> 0:05:47.320 water that we consume. How about human composting? Not many 0:05:47.329 --> 0:05:50.790 countries have legalized it yet, human composting is not available 0:05:50.799 --> 0:05:52.369 in Singapore. I wouldn't know 0:05:52.466 --> 0:05:54.805 if it will be available soon or will there be 0:05:54.815 --> 0:05:58.506 a demand? Human composting is actually the acceleration for the 0:05:58.515 --> 0:06:02.115 human to decompose. So if one is being buried in 0:06:02.126 --> 0:06:06.075 the ground, it will actually decompose over a number of years. 0:06:06.085 --> 0:06:09.776 Human composting is one way that you introduce ingredients and 0:06:09.786 --> 0:06:13.255 materials to actually accelerate the entire process and this process 0:06:13.265 --> 0:06:16.695 requires energy as well, but it shortens the entire period 0:06:16.705 --> 0:06:19.135 to just a few months. So I see that human 0:06:19.231 --> 0:06:22.630 composting is no different of a natural barrier except the 0:06:22.641 --> 0:06:27.022 introduction of some form of industrialization to accelerate the entire process. 0:06:27.032 --> 0:06:30.022 So I feel that if this is something that the 0:06:30.032 --> 0:06:33.141 people want, there must be more studies into this and 0:06:33.152 --> 0:06:36.201 to see how it can be implemented. But of course, 0:06:36.212 --> 0:06:39.851 in all decisions where there's a barrier, there's a cremation, 0:06:39.861 --> 0:06:43.361 a cremation and many different things. There are many benefits 0:06:43.372 --> 0:06:45.940 and there are also a lot of tradeoffs. 0:06:53.899 --> 0:06:57.029 Are you looking for ways to make your money work harder, 0:06:57.070 --> 0:07:02.289 tips on saving investing or retiring early perhaps, or advice 0:07:02.299 --> 0:07:05.790 on big ticket decisions like buying a house or owning 0:07:05.799 --> 0:07:09.179 a car. I'm Andrea Heng, host of C N A 0:07:09.190 --> 0:07:13.440 S top personal finance podcast, money talks. And these are 0:07:13.450 --> 0:07:15.910 some of the things we find out for you. 0:07:16.529 --> 0:07:19.600 Each week I get a guest to share personal stories 0:07:19.609 --> 0:07:22.890 and answer burning questions that help you make sense of 0:07:22.899 --> 0:07:26.799 the latest financial trends. Go check out the complete money 0:07:26.809 --> 0:07:30.660 talks playlist on the C N A app, Spotify, Google 0:07:30.670 --> 0:07:32.000 or Apple podcast. 0:07:40.220 --> 0:07:44.299 So we just touched on a new spin on resting 0:07:44.309 --> 0:07:48.549 in peace, but there really is no standard industry definition 0:07:48.559 --> 0:07:52.100 of green or eco funeral, right? What are some of 0:07:52.109 --> 0:07:56.440 the practices that you think that we could change or implement? So, 0:07:56.450 --> 0:07:59.260 for instance, slightly more than 10 years ago, we actually 0:07:59.269 --> 0:08:02.750 brought in what we call the biodegradable sea short. And 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.809 this sea shell urns allow the family members to place 0:08:05.820 --> 0:08:07.369 the cremated remains into 0:08:07.445 --> 0:08:10.325 by sea shorten. Lower down to the sea surface, it 0:08:10.334 --> 0:08:14.204 floats about 20 to 45 minutes before it sinks down 0:08:14.214 --> 0:08:15.924 to the bottom of the sea bed and you will 0:08:15.934 --> 0:08:19.494 slowly disintegrate. So that's a very beautiful way. And the 0:08:19.505 --> 0:08:22.084 reason I brought this in more than 10 years ago 0:08:22.095 --> 0:08:24.924 was because of two reasons one is that I really 0:08:24.934 --> 0:08:29.195 dislike the idea of sinking porcelain urns, marble urns, granite 0:08:29.204 --> 0:08:31.644 urns into the sea. And I felt that it actually 0:08:31.654 --> 0:08:34.594 affects the marine biodiversity and 0:08:34.669 --> 0:08:36.999 environment as well. So that's a no, no to me. 0:08:37.008 --> 0:08:39.718 So I went high and low search for the solutions. 0:08:39.729 --> 0:08:42.408 The second is actually how beautiful it is for the 0:08:42.419 --> 0:08:45.539 family members to, you know, hold their hands together, bid farewell. 0:08:45.549 --> 0:08:48.809 It helps the grieving journey of the families. And that's 0:08:48.818 --> 0:08:51.018 the last moment I remember as opposed to, you know, 0:08:51.049 --> 0:08:56.158 you think that and that's it. So today, this is 0:08:56.169 --> 0:08:59.068 a common site for families to choose sea barrier. Oh, wow, 0:08:59.078 --> 0:09:01.799 that's very beautiful. Any other ideas or 0:09:01.895 --> 0:09:06.025 options out there that you think is eco-friendly? Many years ago, 0:09:06.034 --> 0:09:08.765 we also brought in what we call the willow cascades, 0:09:08.864 --> 0:09:12.244 willow cascades are natural materials and which we actually we 0:09:12.265 --> 0:09:14.385 it because it's flexible, it is able to weave it 0:09:14.395 --> 0:09:17.684 into a shape of cascades. Today, there are more people 0:09:17.695 --> 0:09:20.934 asking for this option. Of course, not as many as 0:09:20.945 --> 0:09:23.705 the traditional options, but there are more family members who 0:09:23.715 --> 0:09:26.934 choose this option. I noticed that in the us that 0:09:26.945 --> 0:09:29.044 the green trend seems to be picking up, especially 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.909 among young, you know, the the youth. But would you 0:09:31.919 --> 0:09:34.400 say you see much of that here in Asia? Actually, 0:09:34.409 --> 0:09:38.450 the green adoption by people here are not necessarily the young, 0:09:38.460 --> 0:09:41.590 it really depends on the person. So we do have 0:09:41.599 --> 0:09:44.459 people who are senior in age and they opt for that, 0:09:44.469 --> 0:09:48.070 not because of the green movement just because he enjoy 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.609 going to forest hiking and he just want to do 0:09:51.619 --> 0:09:53.739 it that way. So sometimes it's not so much of 0:09:53.750 --> 0:09:55.929 the green, but because of their preferences, 0:09:56.565 --> 0:10:01.674 costs are greener funerals more expensive than traditional ones. The 0:10:01.684 --> 0:10:05.395 green options in today's terms is more expensive than the 0:10:05.405 --> 0:10:08.424 usual ones. That's because the demand is not as high. 0:10:08.434 --> 0:10:10.794 And that's why all of these products has to be 0:10:10.804 --> 0:10:14.265 brought in from overseas. And sometimes if you look just 0:10:14.275 --> 0:10:17.015 at the product itself, it is 100% green because of 0:10:17.025 --> 0:10:20.395 the material, the processor is green. But is it truly 0:10:20.405 --> 0:10:23.414 green green? I would say that no, it is depends 0:10:23.424 --> 0:10:23.494 on 0:10:23.570 --> 0:10:26.270 how you define it. Because for this product to be 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.960 able to be sold in Singapore, you need to fly 0:10:28.969 --> 0:10:31.460 caskets in willow caskets, you need to fly in this 0:10:31.469 --> 0:10:35.089 by the sea and also contribute indirectly in the entire 0:10:35.099 --> 0:10:38.799 supply chain for coming emissions. But it's good to have 0:10:38.809 --> 0:10:42.109 this product because it actually brings out the green consciousness 0:10:42.119 --> 0:10:45.859 of people. So I would always say that the end matters, 0:10:45.869 --> 0:10:48.900 but the journey to the end matters equally as well. 0:10:48.909 --> 0:10:50.419 That's a very good point. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:52.729 And in the future, do you think we would see 0:10:52.739 --> 0:10:56.809 more of these eco alternatives becoming more popular or commonplace? 0:10:56.820 --> 0:10:59.549 I think it goes back to demand and supply. Funeral 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.460 directors generally provides what the family wants. When there is 0:11:03.469 --> 0:11:08.130 higher demand, naturally, there will also be more products available 0:11:08.140 --> 0:11:11.159 at the same time. And green products have to evolve. 0:11:11.169 --> 0:11:13.369 If it has to have a greater adoption, it has 0:11:13.380 --> 0:11:16.450 to evolve in terms of its technology and also how 0:11:16.460 --> 0:11:18.270 it's being done. So I'm sure 0:11:18.335 --> 0:11:22.084 a lot of people are wondering, religious or non religious, 0:11:22.096 --> 0:11:25.944 plain or fancy. How can we pick what's right for us? 0:11:26.106 --> 0:11:29.606 I would say that pick something that represents your life. 0:11:29.616 --> 0:11:32.726 I think that's important and how you want to be remembered. 0:11:32.736 --> 0:11:35.106 There's no right and wrong when it comes to funerals. 0:11:35.116 --> 0:11:37.505 No two funeral is the same. No two Christian funeral 0:11:37.515 --> 0:11:40.276 is the same because we all have different personalities and 0:11:40.285 --> 0:11:42.455 how we want to be remembered. I think it's important 0:11:42.466 --> 0:11:45.346 to convey this wishes to the people that you love 0:11:45.356 --> 0:11:45.606 and not 0:11:45.671 --> 0:11:47.932 just keep it to yourself because you need someone to 0:11:47.942 --> 0:11:50.681 execute on your behalf. Because when you leave this world, 0:11:50.692 --> 0:11:53.802 I'm sure that everyone wants their loved ones to have 0:11:53.812 --> 0:11:56.910 a meaningful life after our departure. What would you say 0:11:56.921 --> 0:11:59.702 is the biggest misconception that people have about, you know, 0:11:59.711 --> 0:12:02.521 funeral industry and what's the one thing that you would 0:12:02.530 --> 0:12:04.762 like to change? There are many things that I want 0:12:04.771 --> 0:12:08.312 to change. I would like to change how our cemeteries 0:12:08.322 --> 0:12:12.242 are today in Singapore because to me, these are not cemeteries, 0:12:12.252 --> 0:12:12.831 these are Gravier. 0:12:13.006 --> 0:12:16.176 I've been to more than 20 countries to visit all 0:12:16.187 --> 0:12:18.927 different cemeteries and we can have something like a memorial 0:12:18.937 --> 0:12:22.807 park as opposed to a cemetery, a cemetery, a Columbarium 0:12:22.817 --> 0:12:27.268 actually is a physical location that brings families together. There 0:12:27.278 --> 0:12:30.478 is a physical end to a body, but it's definitely 0:12:30.487 --> 0:12:33.838 not an end to our relationships. I think having a 0:12:33.848 --> 0:12:38.588 dignified place for people to come, helps to bind society together. 0:12:38.598 --> 0:12:40.278 Next thing if I can change is 0:12:40.343 --> 0:12:42.883 that I hope that funeral parlors can be part of 0:12:42.893 --> 0:12:46.243 a community and not be located in industrial parks. They 0:12:46.254 --> 0:12:48.833 have a lot of noise, they have a lot of dust. 0:12:48.934 --> 0:12:52.863 It's not very dignified to have a funeral to be conducted. 0:12:52.874 --> 0:12:56.143 And unfortunately, that's the reality in Singapore. But I have 0:12:56.153 --> 0:13:00.674 confidence that policymakers will have wisdom to go into that direction. 0:13:00.684 --> 0:13:03.453 I look forward to that soon. I hope before I die. 0:13:03.544 --> 0:13:07.614 Thank you so much for your insights and your candid answers. 0:13:08.659 --> 0:13:12.429 Now, remember choosing a green funeral is a personal choice 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.709 that aligns with your values and beliefs. While it may 0:13:15.719 --> 0:13:19.270 not have a significant impact on climate change, it's still 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.380 a step towards sustainability, especially if more of us are 0:13:23.390 --> 0:13:27.409 conscious of the options available. We hope you enjoyed this episode. 0:13:27.950 --> 0:13:31.299 Remember to subscribe and like this podcast. So, you know, 0:13:31.309 --> 0:13:34.219 when a new episode drops, you can find C N 0:13:34.229 --> 0:13:37.400 A S climate and sustainability coverage online at C N 0:13:37.409 --> 0:13:41.478 A dot Asia. The team behind this podcast is Joan Chen, 0:13:42.909 --> 0:13:47.119 Jacqueline Chan and Christina Robert and I'm Julie Yu signing off.