1 00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:02,410 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:04,730 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. It's November and we are on to the 3 00:00:07,409 --> 00:00:10,430 Speaker 1: last few episodes of work it for the year before 4 00:00:10,439 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: we go on a well deserved season break. Oh, absolutely, 5 00:00:13,689 --> 00:00:16,989 Speaker 1: well deserved. Hi there. Thanks for listening. I subscribe to 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,569 Speaker 1: a bunch of things and one of my favorites has 7 00:00:19,579 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: to be the Harvard Business Review. I get the newsletter 8 00:00:22,770 --> 00:00:25,819 Speaker 1: and found out that they recently launched a new podcast 9 00:00:25,829 --> 00:00:26,489 Speaker 1: called 10 00:00:27,010 --> 00:00:30,940 Speaker 1: I'm new here. It's not how young people navigate work 11 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,568 Speaker 1: and relationships in the office. Adrian, you started work quite early. Yes, 12 00:00:35,580 --> 00:00:40,430 Speaker 1: I did. Do you remember anything about being new and clueless? Oh, absolutely. 13 00:00:40,439 --> 00:00:43,259 Speaker 1: Your question just triggered my pts. You see, I started 14 00:00:43,270 --> 00:00:46,529 Speaker 1: work in call center back when phone calls were still 15 00:00:46,540 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: a thing. So my job literally were to look up 16 00:00:49,049 --> 00:00:52,990 Speaker 1: for phone numbers in actual physical yellow pages for customers 17 00:00:53,029 --> 00:00:55,229 Speaker 1: in the system. And it often does. 18 00:00:55,669 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: I know glamorous, very glamorous job and I thought I'll 19 00:00:58,729 --> 00:01:01,729 Speaker 1: be supervisor material in no time. But then the dream 20 00:01:01,740 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: got dropped faster than a heavy yellow pages because it 21 00:01:05,169 --> 00:01:07,569 Speaker 1: turned out letting your team go mi A when they're 22 00:01:07,580 --> 00:01:11,050 Speaker 1: supposed to be on duty isn't something that the management 23 00:01:11,059 --> 00:01:13,729 Speaker 1: would be happy about. But who knew? You know, I 24 00:01:13,739 --> 00:01:15,949 Speaker 1: was just too young to know about that, but, hey, 25 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,389 Speaker 1: at least I got to perfect my Yellow Pages speeds 26 00:01:18,519 --> 00:01:19,690 Speaker 1: flipping skills. 27 00:01:20,790 --> 00:01:23,339 Speaker 1: I started my career in a newsroom as you guys 28 00:01:23,349 --> 00:01:26,220 Speaker 1: would know. And until today I would say it was 29 00:01:26,230 --> 00:01:31,149 Speaker 1: both wonderful as well as quite brutal for a young person. Ok. 30 00:01:31,279 --> 00:01:34,510 Speaker 1: I didn't know a thing. So I made many mistakes. 31 00:01:34,750 --> 00:01:36,580 Speaker 1: I got scolded all the time 32 00:01:37,089 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: and I must have cried a dozen times, but that 33 00:01:40,449 --> 00:01:42,610 Speaker 1: was a very different era. You know what I mean? 34 00:01:42,620 --> 00:01:46,470 Speaker 1: Young folks these days are so savvy like they know 35 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,650 Speaker 1: what they want. They are smart and successful even before 36 00:01:49,660 --> 00:01:52,830 Speaker 1: they come into work. That's right. But no matter how 37 00:01:52,839 --> 00:01:55,949 Speaker 1: successful you are before you step into the corporate world, 38 00:01:56,449 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: you definitely have some bumps and for some people bigger 39 00:01:59,690 --> 00:02:03,089 Speaker 1: than others. So that's what our chat today is going 40 00:02:03,099 --> 00:02:06,230 Speaker 1: to be about how a new hire deals with some 41 00:02:06,239 --> 00:02:09,299 Speaker 1: of the toughest things in their relationship, in the workplace, 42 00:02:09,309 --> 00:02:12,830 Speaker 1: especially with their manager with us in the studio is 43 00:02:13,449 --> 00:02:16,949 Speaker 1: Te JIA Yee. She's 25 and she works as an 44 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,070 Speaker 1: account manager at High Spark. They work 45 00:02:20,179 --> 00:02:24,029 Speaker 1: with complex B to B brands to clarify their narratives. 46 00:02:24,038 --> 00:02:26,859 Speaker 1: Welcome to our podcast. Hey, thanks for having me. Thanks 47 00:02:26,869 --> 00:02:29,728 Speaker 1: for coming in. So to start with, could you share 48 00:02:29,750 --> 00:02:32,809 Speaker 1: with us do you have any newcomers? NAF when you 49 00:02:32,820 --> 00:02:35,508 Speaker 1: first started work? I love what you shared as well 50 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,449 Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, how you talked about how 51 00:02:37,460 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 1: younger generations are actually a lot more tech savvy. I 52 00:02:40,410 --> 00:02:43,008 Speaker 1: admit I'm a crybaby when I first started, I was very, 53 00:02:43,020 --> 00:02:43,339 Speaker 1: you know, 54 00:02:43,979 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: to my first job and I think even for me, 55 00:02:46,929 --> 00:02:49,289 Speaker 1: the biggest hurdle that I had to go through is 56 00:02:49,300 --> 00:02:52,580 Speaker 1: really more of, you know, looking at how I work 57 00:02:52,589 --> 00:02:55,009 Speaker 1: with people, right? Versus how I work with my friends 58 00:02:55,020 --> 00:02:57,380 Speaker 1: in school. I think that that contrast or that, that 59 00:02:57,389 --> 00:02:59,529 Speaker 1: shift for me was like the biggest thing. Maybe you 60 00:02:59,538 --> 00:03:02,910 Speaker 1: can go into a little bit about that first job, right? 61 00:03:02,979 --> 00:03:05,669 Speaker 1: You see, things have changed quite a bit since Adrian 62 00:03:05,679 --> 00:03:08,419 Speaker 1: and I started work, this was like, OK, as old 63 00:03:08,429 --> 00:03:10,489 Speaker 1: as you basically. So, 64 00:03:11,119 --> 00:03:14,269 Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have a string of internships for 65 00:03:14,279 --> 00:03:17,258 Speaker 1: a start. So for us it was school and then 66 00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:22,190 Speaker 1: straight away into this work environment, right? Your generation would 67 00:03:22,199 --> 00:03:25,490 Speaker 1: you say goes into work with a little bit more 68 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:26,929 Speaker 1: of a clearer idea 69 00:03:27,610 --> 00:03:30,309 Speaker 1: of what you want? Definitely, we don't have yellow pages. 70 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,448 Speaker 1: But I think back in school, she doesn't even know 71 00:03:32,460 --> 00:03:35,619 Speaker 1: what is yellow. I'm sure it's a book of sorts, 72 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,389 Speaker 1: but I'll figure out my parents. Yeah. But I think 73 00:03:38,399 --> 00:03:40,539 Speaker 1: even for me when I first started back in school, 74 00:03:40,550 --> 00:03:42,889 Speaker 1: I think we were given a lot of opportunities. I 75 00:03:42,899 --> 00:03:45,610 Speaker 1: came from and poly, what I was quite grateful for 76 00:03:45,619 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: was beyond just internships. Right. Throughout my first year and 77 00:03:48,610 --> 00:03:52,029 Speaker 1: second year, we had 80 hours or 90 hours of work. 78 00:03:52,119 --> 00:03:55,399 Speaker 1: We had to clock in for my curriculum. So I 79 00:03:55,410 --> 00:03:58,199 Speaker 1: pursued a diploma in tourism. So there were times where 80 00:03:58,210 --> 00:04:00,169 Speaker 1: I had to clock in 90 hours of F and 81 00:04:00,179 --> 00:04:03,649 Speaker 1: B work. So that gave me hours a week, 90 82 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:08,869 Speaker 1: hours for the entire semester, semester, a week. That's where 83 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,490 Speaker 1: I first learned a little bit. Even for customer service. 84 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:14,289 Speaker 1: I was doing waitering at hotels. I think one of 85 00:04:14,300 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: the more fun jobs I had was basically that copy 86 00:04:16,488 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: uncle 87 00:04:16,829 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: that goes around at the coffee shop. So I landed 88 00:04:19,329 --> 00:04:21,350 Speaker 1: a job at one of the coffee shops to shout 89 00:04:21,359 --> 00:04:24,290 Speaker 1: out coffee orders. So those were the experiences that I 90 00:04:24,299 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 1: had before going into the workplace that really helped cushion 91 00:04:27,809 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: the kind of expectations we wanted to have when we 92 00:04:31,049 --> 00:04:32,950 Speaker 1: were going into like a full blown job. I would 93 00:04:32,988 --> 00:04:35,529 Speaker 1: say in terms of what, in terms of like how 94 00:04:35,540 --> 00:04:38,529 Speaker 1: to deal with different people. Or I think for me, 95 00:04:38,540 --> 00:04:40,730 Speaker 1: it was really more of figuring out how to deal 96 00:04:40,738 --> 00:04:41,450 Speaker 1: with conflict. 97 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,350 Speaker 1: I think one thing that I do realize is whether 98 00:04:44,359 --> 00:04:46,909 Speaker 1: or not you're in school or even at work, conflict 99 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,659 Speaker 1: tend to arise. I had trauma from was basically not 100 00:04:49,670 --> 00:04:53,130 Speaker 1: understanding that there were relationships that were built before I entered. 101 00:04:53,329 --> 00:04:55,470 Speaker 1: So if there were office politics and all that I 102 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,299 Speaker 1: wouldn't be aware of. And that's something that I learned 103 00:04:58,309 --> 00:05:01,239 Speaker 1: along the way to manage, to figure out how to 104 00:05:01,380 --> 00:05:04,928 Speaker 1: get away from those situations. Yeah. So do you have 105 00:05:04,940 --> 00:05:09,089 Speaker 1: any memorable conflict or situation that actually encountered during those 106 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:10,140 Speaker 1: 90 hours that 107 00:05:10,410 --> 00:05:13,589 Speaker 1: somehow molded the way you approach office work? I would say, 108 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: I think in my little stint in poly, all the 109 00:05:17,049 --> 00:05:20,789 Speaker 1: different workplaces, one that really stood out was previously, I 110 00:05:20,799 --> 00:05:24,380 Speaker 1: was basically selling phones at a phone shop. There was 111 00:05:24,390 --> 00:05:27,070 Speaker 1: once I got scolded really badly by this lady, she 112 00:05:27,079 --> 00:05:29,178 Speaker 1: said the phone really for lack of a better word. 113 00:05:29,238 --> 00:05:31,419 Speaker 1: It sucks. And then she was telling me all these 114 00:05:31,428 --> 00:05:33,609 Speaker 1: different features that didn't work. I was just not sure 115 00:05:33,619 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: how to deal with that. And my manager back then 116 00:05:36,010 --> 00:05:37,750 Speaker 1: was like you do with her. She's shouting at you. 117 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,260 Speaker 1: She's not shouting at me. So I dealt with that 118 00:05:40,269 --> 00:05:43,609 Speaker 1: situation and it turns out manager of the year and 119 00:05:43,619 --> 00:05:45,969 Speaker 1: then 15 minutes in, right? I realized she wasn't even 120 00:05:45,980 --> 00:05:47,979 Speaker 1: holding the brand of the phone that we were selling. 121 00:05:48,250 --> 00:05:51,489 Speaker 1: She was basically having a competitive brand. It was situations 122 00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:55,220 Speaker 1: like that. I learned a thing. This manager throwing her 123 00:05:55,230 --> 00:05:58,540 Speaker 1: under the bus is not cool, which is a good 124 00:05:58,549 --> 00:06:03,149 Speaker 1: segue to our next question on relationship specifically how you 125 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,519 Speaker 1: deal with your supervisor or manager over and above 126 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,059 Speaker 1: what you just shared. What was your experience like the 127 00:06:09,070 --> 00:06:11,859 Speaker 1: good and the bad. I mean, once you started work proper, 128 00:06:11,869 --> 00:06:14,929 Speaker 1: like an office culture, I think that's, yeah, I was 129 00:06:14,940 --> 00:06:19,100 Speaker 1: doing an internship with an events management company. That first 130 00:06:19,109 --> 00:06:21,549 Speaker 1: internship role turned out to be my first full time 131 00:06:21,559 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: role as well. So it was just an instant role 132 00:06:23,609 --> 00:06:24,820 Speaker 1: over after I graduated. 133 00:06:25,149 --> 00:06:27,659 Speaker 1: And what I was quite grateful for as well is 134 00:06:27,670 --> 00:06:30,019 Speaker 1: that the main boss of this event company was an 135 00:06:30,029 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: associate lecturer for my school. So I more or less 136 00:06:33,450 --> 00:06:36,950 Speaker 1: knew the kind of relationship we had basically established like 137 00:06:36,959 --> 00:06:39,579 Speaker 1: a student teacher kind of relationship before. So it was 138 00:06:39,589 --> 00:06:43,099 Speaker 1: easy to navigate working with her. But I think moving 139 00:06:43,109 --> 00:06:45,450 Speaker 1: on the team expanded and when I went into a 140 00:06:45,459 --> 00:06:47,750 Speaker 1: full time role, I was sent into a different department. 141 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,099 Speaker 1: So a different team and I think that was where 142 00:06:50,511 --> 00:06:53,372 Speaker 1: I did understand that dynamics were different. The reason why 143 00:06:53,380 --> 00:06:55,492 Speaker 1: I think I stayed on for very long was because 144 00:06:55,502 --> 00:06:57,721 Speaker 1: the way she manages the events and then she works 145 00:06:57,731 --> 00:07:00,390 Speaker 1: when I wasn't able to work with her fully. That 146 00:07:00,402 --> 00:07:02,481 Speaker 1: was where I started figuring out like, oh, I got 147 00:07:02,492 --> 00:07:05,462 Speaker 1: to make this new relationships with my managers myself. I 148 00:07:05,471 --> 00:07:08,092 Speaker 1: need to really figure out what I stood for at 149 00:07:08,101 --> 00:07:10,812 Speaker 1: work as well. Yeah. But did you get along with 150 00:07:10,821 --> 00:07:13,802 Speaker 1: the other managers or you found it a bit hard? 151 00:07:13,812 --> 00:07:15,191 Speaker 1: I an empath. So 152 00:07:15,283 --> 00:07:17,384 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say anyone it is hard to work with. 153 00:07:17,394 --> 00:07:20,243 Speaker 1: I think it's more. We're all in our different stages 154 00:07:20,253 --> 00:07:23,223 Speaker 1: of growth as well. So for me, I think when 155 00:07:23,234 --> 00:07:25,783 Speaker 1: I was working with this new manager, he was a guy, 156 00:07:25,794 --> 00:07:27,884 Speaker 1: I think he was really new to his role as well. 157 00:07:27,944 --> 00:07:30,794 Speaker 1: But he was also figuring out how he should manage 158 00:07:30,803 --> 00:07:33,653 Speaker 1: all of us, correct. So there were instances where I 159 00:07:33,664 --> 00:07:36,614 Speaker 1: felt like I wasn't too sure about what's happening or 160 00:07:36,623 --> 00:07:40,303 Speaker 1: the past conflicts that happened with certain departments. Then for 161 00:07:40,385 --> 00:07:42,235 Speaker 1: me, it was a bit hard to navigate why he 162 00:07:42,246 --> 00:07:45,605 Speaker 1: was reacting this way to someone. What someone else is saying, 163 00:07:45,626 --> 00:07:49,085 Speaker 1: why is he gossiping behind somebody's back? So I think 164 00:07:49,096 --> 00:07:51,946 Speaker 1: those were a little bit confusing for me to grasp 165 00:07:51,955 --> 00:07:54,605 Speaker 1: with what I tried to figure out was also that 166 00:07:54,615 --> 00:07:58,006 Speaker 1: he's probably having figuring out his own way of managing, right? 167 00:07:58,055 --> 00:08:02,726 Speaker 1: That's a very empathetic way of looking at things anyone 168 00:08:02,735 --> 00:08:04,036 Speaker 1: else would have complained. 169 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: And I think there is something that the school doesn't 170 00:08:07,609 --> 00:08:11,109 Speaker 1: really teach you, right? Because especially when you're parachuted into 171 00:08:11,119 --> 00:08:15,700 Speaker 1: a job, you have no understanding of the historical conflict 172 00:08:15,709 --> 00:08:19,859 Speaker 1: relationship across everyone. You just come in and with the 173 00:08:19,869 --> 00:08:22,459 Speaker 1: best optimism, try to fulfill your work, try to do 174 00:08:22,470 --> 00:08:24,429 Speaker 1: the best job, try to get promoted, climb the career 175 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:24,869 Speaker 1: ladder 176 00:08:25,140 --> 00:08:27,829 Speaker 1: and then you realize everything just keep crumbling down because 177 00:08:27,839 --> 00:08:29,609 Speaker 1: no one told you that it's not in the handbook 178 00:08:29,619 --> 00:08:35,390 Speaker 1: about all this. So the Harvard Business Review defines managing up. 179 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,340 Speaker 1: I know some people hate this term managing up because 180 00:08:38,349 --> 00:08:42,190 Speaker 1: it's as if it's my job to manage you when 181 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,140 Speaker 1: actually you are the manager, right? Isn't it your job 182 00:08:45,150 --> 00:08:49,340 Speaker 1: to manage me? But anyway, they say that it's an 183 00:08:49,349 --> 00:08:52,599 Speaker 1: important skill for young people or for anybody. Actually, not 184 00:08:52,609 --> 00:08:53,479 Speaker 1: just young people. 185 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:57,739 Speaker 1: Basically, what it means is you end up being the 186 00:08:57,750 --> 00:09:02,650 Speaker 1: most effective employee. You can you create the best value 187 00:09:02,659 --> 00:09:05,309 Speaker 1: for your boss or your company. These are the two 188 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,140 Speaker 1: things that is defined by what is managing up. I 189 00:09:09,150 --> 00:09:12,510 Speaker 1: would add kind of my old school way that managing 190 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:17,229 Speaker 1: your boss basically means not to give your boss problems 191 00:09:17,239 --> 00:09:18,109 Speaker 1: to solve. 192 00:09:18,419 --> 00:09:21,030 Speaker 1: I think that's it. I think, I think your explanation 193 00:09:21,039 --> 00:09:25,069 Speaker 1: is just don't give your boss problem because as a boss, 194 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,449 Speaker 1: I already have quite a few problems that I have 195 00:09:27,460 --> 00:09:30,069 Speaker 1: to do. I have to manage up plus up. So 196 00:09:30,169 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: then you throw in a newbie into it and you're like, 197 00:09:33,289 --> 00:09:35,929 Speaker 1: but tell me, do you see it that way? I 198 00:09:35,940 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: think to some extent it's true. I think my point 199 00:09:38,450 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: of view it's managing up is more of managing the 200 00:09:41,409 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: expectations that 201 00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:46,659 Speaker 1: this person should have on me, right? Ok. So say 202 00:09:46,669 --> 00:09:49,289 Speaker 1: if a manager, if I bring back that whole scenario 203 00:09:49,299 --> 00:09:52,020 Speaker 1: of the previous manager with me right now, I think 204 00:09:52,030 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: it's more of me setting the expectation of, ok, this 205 00:09:54,289 --> 00:09:56,909 Speaker 1: is what you can get out of me. Anything beyond that. 206 00:09:56,919 --> 00:09:59,190 Speaker 1: I think it's something I'm willing to try. But you 207 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,159 Speaker 1: have to be prepared that I may not be like 208 00:10:01,169 --> 00:10:05,309 Speaker 1: at 100% delivering certain things. OK. So to some extent, 209 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:06,630 Speaker 1: I think managing up, 210 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,510 Speaker 1: it's a good thing. It sets that expectation, it sets 211 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,919 Speaker 1: the tone. So, but whose job is it to sit 212 00:10:11,929 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: down and talk about this, Adrian, would you go to 213 00:10:14,570 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: your manager and say, OK, you know what this is 214 00:10:16,530 --> 00:10:20,130 Speaker 1: who I am? These are my triggers. I think your 215 00:10:20,140 --> 00:10:22,140 Speaker 1: manager would think you're trying to be a prima Donna. 216 00:10:22,270 --> 00:10:25,179 Speaker 1: If you go with that approach, these are things that 217 00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:28,689 Speaker 1: actually has a material impact on how one operate at 218 00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:33,020 Speaker 1: a workplace, but it can be nowhere found in from 219 00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: your hr department in your employee handbook. No one talks 220 00:10:36,010 --> 00:10:39,130 Speaker 1: about it. It's just naturally assumed that everyone should know 221 00:10:39,140 --> 00:10:42,968 Speaker 1: how to operate regardless of the, I really don't think 222 00:10:43,330 --> 00:10:46,260 Speaker 1: a young person just starting out would know how to 223 00:10:46,270 --> 00:10:49,909 Speaker 1: manage his boss. Don't you think so? J sounds hard, right. 224 00:10:49,919 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: It is quite interesting because I feel like we have 225 00:10:52,570 --> 00:10:55,750 Speaker 1: to some extent done bits and pieces of managing up 226 00:10:55,929 --> 00:10:58,189 Speaker 1: just that we never had a term to call it. 227 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. You know what I mean? Or an honest conversation 228 00:11:00,969 --> 00:11:04,039 Speaker 1: about what that means. I think it's all about trying 229 00:11:04,049 --> 00:11:07,929 Speaker 1: to understand the style of each other. Remember that a 230 00:11:07,940 --> 00:11:10,729 Speaker 1: guest from linkedin had mentioned, have a user guide of 231 00:11:10,739 --> 00:11:14,130 Speaker 1: myself in order to present to your peers and colleague 232 00:11:14,140 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: and that will help each other understand what's a trigger, 233 00:11:17,219 --> 00:11:19,169 Speaker 1: what you like, what you don't like. What's your pet peeve? 234 00:11:19,409 --> 00:11:21,419 Speaker 1: And hopefully that will help each other to function much 235 00:11:21,429 --> 00:11:24,190 Speaker 1: better at the end of the day. It's like all relationships. Right. 236 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,260 Speaker 1: Some are a little bit tricky because you're quite different. 237 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,940 Speaker 1: Like your manager might be very fussy about certain things. 238 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,429 Speaker 1: You might be a chill bill. So, 239 00:11:36,270 --> 00:11:39,010 Speaker 1: and your manager will see differently why there's no sense 240 00:11:39,179 --> 00:11:43,848 Speaker 1: of exactly. But it could be a nature conflict kind 241 00:11:43,859 --> 00:11:46,049 Speaker 1: of thing. But you need to work together. Right. Yeah, 242 00:11:46,349 --> 00:11:50,030 Speaker 1: it's like people playing that broken telephone game, right? You know, 243 00:11:50,039 --> 00:11:52,510 Speaker 1: you have that perception of something and then just morphs 244 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,130 Speaker 1: into something else. Yeah. But at the same time, I 245 00:11:55,140 --> 00:11:58,380 Speaker 1: think even from my perspective, it just felt like things 246 00:11:58,390 --> 00:11:59,099 Speaker 1: that I needed 247 00:11:59,179 --> 00:12:01,489 Speaker 1: to do. But maybe back then when I started out, 248 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:04,718 Speaker 1: I was like only 19, starting out working all full time. 249 00:12:04,729 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, it wasn't something that I could verbalize at 250 00:12:07,530 --> 00:12:09,950 Speaker 1: that moment. But going into my new job, that was 251 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,069 Speaker 1: something I actually was able to do with my current 252 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,179 Speaker 1: bosses actually. So, what did you do differently? I think 253 00:12:16,190 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: one thing that I did realize is after that first job, 254 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,039 Speaker 1: there were a couple of things that I really valued 255 00:12:21,049 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: in a job. But 256 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,130 Speaker 1: I think it, like what you mentioned, it's a two 257 00:12:24,140 --> 00:12:27,500 Speaker 1: way process, like my previous boss or my previous manager, 258 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: they were very busy with their day to the point 259 00:12:30,090 --> 00:12:33,250 Speaker 1: where for me not screwing up, it's already a good thing. Right. 260 00:12:33,260 --> 00:12:36,119 Speaker 1: So I'm just there like, trying to, the best day 261 00:12:36,130 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: of my life at work, trying not to screw up, 262 00:12:38,330 --> 00:12:41,130 Speaker 1: making sure that everything goes well. So, like having those 263 00:12:41,140 --> 00:12:43,900 Speaker 1: conversations were a little bit tougher, I would say with 264 00:12:43,909 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: the previous manager then moving into this new job, I 265 00:12:46,969 --> 00:12:49,119 Speaker 1: think what I was quite grateful for my bosses is 266 00:12:49,130 --> 00:12:49,380 Speaker 1: that 267 00:12:49,630 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: they are quite young and cool and energetic as well. 268 00:12:52,409 --> 00:12:55,849 Speaker 1: And I think they really value the idea of reflecting. 269 00:12:56,030 --> 00:12:59,380 Speaker 1: So reflecting on our work and every quarter, so every 270 00:12:59,390 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 1: three months, we basically have this quarterly review, right? Sit 271 00:13:02,090 --> 00:13:05,359 Speaker 1: down with them, talk about our goals, our challenges. And 272 00:13:05,369 --> 00:13:07,770 Speaker 1: I think having that space, that safe space 273 00:13:07,989 --> 00:13:10,669 Speaker 1: help me also figure out and verbalize what are some 274 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: things that I cared about. Yeah, so obviously, no two 275 00:13:14,010 --> 00:13:16,979 Speaker 1: bosses are the same. And what the key thing that 276 00:13:16,989 --> 00:13:19,710 Speaker 1: we can bring up over this conversation is you need 277 00:13:19,719 --> 00:13:23,539 Speaker 1: to understand, adapt to your manager style, drawing from your experience. 278 00:13:23,549 --> 00:13:27,859 Speaker 1: How would you advise a 19 year old on trying 279 00:13:27,869 --> 00:13:31,228 Speaker 1: to understand and adapting to the managers to your new 280 00:13:31,239 --> 00:13:34,210 Speaker 1: manager style of working, how to even identify to begin with? 281 00:13:34,530 --> 00:13:36,450 Speaker 1: I think one big thing that I would say is 282 00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:39,130 Speaker 1: to know what you want in a job. I think 283 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,218 Speaker 1: not saying that the 25 year old is no longer aspirational. 284 00:13:43,229 --> 00:13:46,709 Speaker 1: But I think if I'm considered aspirational right now, the 285 00:13:46,719 --> 00:13:50,710 Speaker 1: 19 year old is probably, like, dreamy, aspirational. So she 286 00:13:50,719 --> 00:13:53,858 Speaker 1: wanted the perfect job. She wanted everything to go. Well, 287 00:13:53,869 --> 00:13:53,989 Speaker 1: and 288 00:13:54,070 --> 00:13:56,809 Speaker 1: every day is just a smooth sailing. Everyone loves her. 289 00:13:56,820 --> 00:13:59,750 Speaker 1: The manager loves her, the bosses, love her, the client, like, 290 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,630 Speaker 1: adores her every day. Yeah. Exactly. So, this sounds like 291 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,669 Speaker 1: it's in a TV program. Exactly. So I would get 292 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,539 Speaker 1: her back on the ground. Tell her, like, realistically it's 293 00:14:11,549 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 1: a reality, right? You can't have everything and at the 294 00:14:14,330 --> 00:14:16,969 Speaker 1: same time, if you want everything and you don't say it, 295 00:14:16,989 --> 00:14:19,969 Speaker 1: then you can for anybody about it as well. 296 00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:27,010 Speaker 2: Hello, everyone. My name is Steven Chia and I'm host 297 00:14:27,020 --> 00:14:30,929 Speaker 2: of CNAs Weekly news podcast. Heart of The Matter each week. 298 00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:33,890 Speaker 2: My job is to ask the questions you have, like, 299 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:37,679 Speaker 2: why is the coe so high? Why aren't singles dating 300 00:14:37,869 --> 00:14:39,929 Speaker 2: or what's going on with the red 301 00:14:40,049 --> 00:14:43,030 Speaker 2: hot property market in Singapore? If you want the views 302 00:14:43,039 --> 00:14:45,919 Speaker 2: behind the news, then tune in each week as we 303 00:14:45,929 --> 00:14:48,190 Speaker 2: get to the heart of the matter, we are on 304 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,789 Speaker 2: the CN A and me listen apps and wherever you 305 00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: get your podcasts hit, follow or subscribe. So you don't 306 00:14:54,210 --> 00:14:56,030 Speaker 2: miss an episode when it drops. 307 00:15:00,570 --> 00:15:03,630 Speaker 1: I really want to pick up a point about saying things. 308 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes the challenge is articulating how you really feel. I 309 00:15:08,450 --> 00:15:11,450 Speaker 1: need your take on this maybe with your friends or 310 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,010 Speaker 1: with colleagues who are about the same age. Do they 311 00:15:14,020 --> 00:15:17,710 Speaker 1: find it like if they say, hey, I'm struggling, 312 00:15:18,010 --> 00:15:20,450 Speaker 1: do they think that the boss might think that they 313 00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:24,580 Speaker 1: were not meeting expectations and they would somehow think poorly 314 00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:27,739 Speaker 1: of them? Maybe it's a more traditional, this kind of mindset. 315 00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:30,140 Speaker 1: When I look at my boss, there is still that level, 316 00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:33,619 Speaker 1: the invisible level of hierarchy that I do see as well. 317 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:36,309 Speaker 1: So there are things that I would be more inclined 318 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,049 Speaker 1: to share with my boss. But if there are things 319 00:15:38,059 --> 00:15:38,679 Speaker 1: that I'm 320 00:15:38,830 --> 00:15:40,559 Speaker 1: working on myself or I feel that it's going to 321 00:15:40,570 --> 00:15:43,250 Speaker 1: affect my work, sometimes there is still that fear of 322 00:15:43,260 --> 00:15:46,659 Speaker 1: sharing everything with your boss. Yeah. So maybe that's also 323 00:15:46,669 --> 00:15:50,690 Speaker 1: a concern. I was reading this book recently called Crucial Conversations. 324 00:15:50,729 --> 00:15:53,270 Speaker 1: The book was basically sharing this insight that I've been 325 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: trying to apply quite a bit, which is if you 326 00:15:55,450 --> 00:15:57,479 Speaker 1: want to have a crucial conversation, whether or not it's 327 00:15:57,489 --> 00:15:59,570 Speaker 1: with your friends in your relationship or 328 00:15:59,650 --> 00:16:02,830 Speaker 1: with your boss, it's important to be able to remove 329 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,260 Speaker 1: this idea of defense like being defensive versus trying to 330 00:16:06,270 --> 00:16:09,500 Speaker 1: attack someone. So creating the safe space to look at 331 00:16:09,510 --> 00:16:13,630 Speaker 1: a situation. Yeah. So I think having those skill sets, 332 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: I don't think those were things that we studied in 333 00:16:15,530 --> 00:16:17,979 Speaker 1: school as well as things we tried to. No, but 334 00:16:17,989 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: also even adults cannot do that. Come on. How many 335 00:16:22,530 --> 00:16:25,070 Speaker 1: years have we been married, right? Can you really 336 00:16:25,849 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: not be defensive and look at the situation? It sounds 337 00:16:29,890 --> 00:16:34,799 Speaker 1: great on paper, but in reality, it's clouded by judgment, right? 338 00:16:34,809 --> 00:16:36,989 Speaker 1: And a lot of times ego may be at play, 339 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,380 Speaker 1: there's a lot of human emotions. You also would not 340 00:16:39,390 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: know what the counterpart has gone through that day or 341 00:16:41,849 --> 00:16:44,330 Speaker 1: the week before. So, even though you may be saying 342 00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:46,159 Speaker 1: the most pragmatic thing, but for him or her, it 343 00:16:46,169 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: is like, ah I'm still dealing with that conversation with 344 00:16:48,530 --> 00:16:50,780 Speaker 1: my wife. I still have a process that this was 345 00:16:50,789 --> 00:16:54,039 Speaker 1: an interesting data which Adrian was sharing with me. 346 00:16:54,340 --> 00:16:58,450 Speaker 1: The top three challenges cited by fresh graduates in Singapore 347 00:16:58,460 --> 00:17:04,689 Speaker 1: coming into the workplace, 63% felt that adapting to workplace 348 00:17:04,699 --> 00:17:08,599 Speaker 1: culture was the hardest thing. Oh, wow, that's big. I'm 349 00:17:08,609 --> 00:17:10,910 Speaker 1: not sure if you think that there is a clash 350 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: of culture between what young people want and maybe they 351 00:17:15,369 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: are Gen Z millennial bosses like us, right? Do you 352 00:17:18,489 --> 00:17:20,959 Speaker 1: feel that workplace culture is important? First of all, 353 00:17:21,989 --> 00:17:24,479 Speaker 1: I think it's really important. I did a ranking for 354 00:17:24,489 --> 00:17:28,379 Speaker 1: myself before with another mentor, but workplace culture came in. 355 00:17:28,388 --> 00:17:30,999 Speaker 1: I think one of the highest, the top three on 356 00:17:31,009 --> 00:17:34,537 Speaker 1: my list. And I think even for workplace culture, we 357 00:17:34,548 --> 00:17:37,078 Speaker 1: were thinking and having a discussion about with my friends, right? 358 00:17:37,229 --> 00:17:40,838 Speaker 1: Was to what extent do Gen Z's or young people 359 00:17:40,848 --> 00:17:43,519 Speaker 1: today need to emulate the cultures of the company 360 00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:47,290 Speaker 1: are elements where we can look at the culture that 361 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:48,780 Speaker 1: we are trying to set here and see whether or 362 00:17:48,790 --> 00:17:50,890 Speaker 1: not there are ways we can compromise, right? Because a 363 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:53,329 Speaker 1: lot of times I feel corporate culture comes from a 364 00:17:53,420 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: long standing of tradition or habits and characteristics, correct. But 365 00:17:58,229 --> 00:18:01,599 Speaker 1: sometimes we do update policies as well, but we don't 366 00:18:01,609 --> 00:18:05,319 Speaker 1: usually update corporate culture. Yeah, so it's to move with 367 00:18:05,329 --> 00:18:08,780 Speaker 1: the times a company with culture that is most suited 368 00:18:08,790 --> 00:18:10,569 Speaker 1: to your personal culture, right? 369 00:18:11,109 --> 00:18:13,079 Speaker 1: I remember when I was still working and we work, 370 00:18:13,089 --> 00:18:16,219 Speaker 1: there was a group of secondary school students just coming in, 371 00:18:16,229 --> 00:18:17,819 Speaker 1: I was having a chat with the teacher. So where 372 00:18:17,829 --> 00:18:19,938 Speaker 1: are they going next? Oh, we're going to Netflix office 373 00:18:19,949 --> 00:18:22,619 Speaker 1: after that Google office. And my mind like it's not 374 00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: painting a complete picture of how the entire world landscape 375 00:18:25,930 --> 00:18:28,410 Speaker 1: is because you're not bringing them to the JTC, you 376 00:18:28,489 --> 00:18:30,839 Speaker 1: not bring them to the low young industrial park that 377 00:18:30,849 --> 00:18:34,790 Speaker 1: might also somewhat present a very one sided picture to 378 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: the younger people that all officers look like we were 379 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,020 Speaker 1: all officers will have a beer tap, which isn't true. 380 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,170 Speaker 1: I wanted to share with you an anecdote. A friend 381 00:18:43,180 --> 00:18:47,219 Speaker 1: of mine shared about a young person who was working 382 00:18:47,229 --> 00:18:50,670 Speaker 1: with her friend and this young person was given a 383 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:51,930 Speaker 1: task to do. 384 00:18:52,469 --> 00:18:56,459 Speaker 1: So she said, you know what? I don't see the 385 00:18:56,469 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: learning objective of this task, right? I don't know how 386 00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:02,910 Speaker 1: it's going to add value in this person's mind. Fair 387 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,300 Speaker 1: enough that the job scope that she signed up for 388 00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:10,219 Speaker 1: was this right? Maybe it was a very menial task. 389 00:19:10,229 --> 00:19:12,579 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Maybe it was outside of work hours. 390 00:19:12,589 --> 00:19:14,739 Speaker 1: I don't know, but the bottom line is, he was 391 00:19:14,750 --> 00:19:18,739 Speaker 1: quite stumped as a manager. He was like, how do 392 00:19:18,750 --> 00:19:20,979 Speaker 1: I deal with this? So, 393 00:19:21,550 --> 00:19:24,650 Speaker 1: what do you think? Do you hear that? Would you 394 00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:27,140 Speaker 1: tell your boss that I'm so glad you brought this 395 00:19:27,150 --> 00:19:30,989 Speaker 1: up honestly, because that's basically why I departed from my 396 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,540 Speaker 1: first company. Spill the tea as you guys would say. 397 00:19:34,550 --> 00:19:35,770 Speaker 1: All right, let me spill it. 398 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,729 Speaker 1: Yeah. But I think for me, even when I was 399 00:19:38,739 --> 00:19:41,579 Speaker 1: going through the first experience, it was a great experience. 400 00:19:41,589 --> 00:19:44,939 Speaker 1: I had exposure, got to go for different events. Everything 401 00:19:44,949 --> 00:19:47,819 Speaker 1: was perfect. But I think what happened was when I 402 00:19:47,829 --> 00:19:50,889 Speaker 1: was shifted into this new department. I think that perhaps 403 00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:52,650 Speaker 1: right now looking back, I think it was just a 404 00:19:52,660 --> 00:19:55,579 Speaker 1: mismatch in dynamics, right? Maybe the expectations were not shared 405 00:19:55,589 --> 00:19:56,050 Speaker 1: by me, 406 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,659 Speaker 1: maybe the expectations were also not shared by my manager. 407 00:19:58,839 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: So it became a case where my intention here was 408 00:20:01,530 --> 00:20:04,319 Speaker 1: to learn more about the experience, to learn from my 409 00:20:04,329 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: actual boss, right? And eventually not being able to do 410 00:20:07,569 --> 00:20:09,938 Speaker 1: that kind of stifled me in the thoughts of like, 411 00:20:09,949 --> 00:20:13,900 Speaker 1: why am I growing into and essentially whatever job or 412 00:20:13,910 --> 00:20:15,780 Speaker 1: responsibility my manager gave me, 413 00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:18,459 Speaker 1: I think it was also clouded with, but it's not 414 00:20:18,469 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: helping me with my growth. I don't see the bigger picture. 415 00:20:21,130 --> 00:20:23,020 Speaker 1: I don't see the value. This is not what I 416 00:20:23,030 --> 00:20:24,819 Speaker 1: signed up for. I don't want to do this stuff 417 00:20:24,859 --> 00:20:28,260 Speaker 1: that also trickled down into, OK, maybe it's a mismatch 418 00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:31,010 Speaker 1: in the culture. And that was also a reason why 419 00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 1: I decided to leave as well and go into something new. 420 00:20:34,739 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: I would say. Then there is certainly a divergence of 421 00:20:39,170 --> 00:20:42,079 Speaker 1: how we do things because I would tell you 100%. 422 00:20:42,339 --> 00:20:44,458 Speaker 1: I don't even need to ask Adrian, the both of 423 00:20:44,469 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: us will just suck it up and do it. Right. 424 00:20:48,140 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: That's right. See, yeah, it could be a mindset thing 425 00:20:51,369 --> 00:20:53,329 Speaker 1: because I had a conversation with my mom as well 426 00:20:53,410 --> 00:20:55,699 Speaker 1: when we were working, right? Sometimes we work ot so 427 00:20:55,709 --> 00:20:58,069 Speaker 1: over time, would you rather get pay or would you 428 00:20:58,079 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: get extra hours off to sleep off days? 429 00:21:02,239 --> 00:21:05,319 Speaker 1: Probably off days? It depends. But yeah, off days, I 430 00:21:05,329 --> 00:21:06,698 Speaker 1: would say, I think it depends on what you are 431 00:21:06,709 --> 00:21:09,188 Speaker 1: trying to optimize for. If someone is, of course, in 432 00:21:09,199 --> 00:21:12,010 Speaker 1: need of money. Obviously, you lean towards making the most 433 00:21:12,020 --> 00:21:14,819 Speaker 1: of it. Do you guys prefer money for me? I 434 00:21:14,829 --> 00:21:17,709 Speaker 1: think salary is still one of the top trees. I 435 00:21:17,719 --> 00:21:18,669 Speaker 1: feel very proud to be able 436 00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:20,739 Speaker 1: to say this now because in the past for women 437 00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:23,699 Speaker 1: or younger generation, when you say that salary is a 438 00:21:23,709 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: key consideration, people feel like there's a need to justify 439 00:21:27,329 --> 00:21:29,688 Speaker 1: why there's a need for salary to be at the time. 440 00:21:29,699 --> 00:21:31,619 Speaker 1: I think it's off days for me and Christina because 441 00:21:31,630 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 1: we are much older and we recognize that we don't 442 00:21:33,729 --> 00:21:34,979 Speaker 1: have much time left on earth. 443 00:21:35,849 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: So the more time we earn the better holidays, we 444 00:21:38,930 --> 00:21:41,780 Speaker 1: need our time to sleep right away from the Children 445 00:21:41,790 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 1: to that point. Right. My wife was also sharing with me, 446 00:21:45,489 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: the younger crowd that she deals with right now is 447 00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: very different from the older generation. The older generation when 448 00:21:50,689 --> 00:21:53,390 Speaker 1: they complain reaches her, she's in hr about a lot 449 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,099 Speaker 1: of work about ot they will still complain, they vent 450 00:21:57,109 --> 00:21:59,050 Speaker 1: it out but they will still go back and complete 451 00:21:59,060 --> 00:21:59,479 Speaker 1: a job 452 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,540 Speaker 1: for the younger generation. Oh My mental health. Not so good. 453 00:22:03,770 --> 00:22:07,770 Speaker 1: I need to go for employee assistance program and basically 454 00:22:07,780 --> 00:22:10,260 Speaker 1: just drop everything and put it on the table. Yeah. 455 00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: So it's very different kind of approach to work from 456 00:22:13,810 --> 00:22:14,979 Speaker 1: what I can see as well. 457 00:22:15,125 --> 00:22:17,805 Speaker 1: I suppose we need to adapt like she says, right? 458 00:22:17,814 --> 00:22:21,544 Speaker 1: You update your policies, you update your work practices. Why 459 00:22:21,555 --> 00:22:24,604 Speaker 1: don't you update your culture? Right? There must be some 460 00:22:24,614 --> 00:22:27,844 Speaker 1: conversation and some compromise. I mean, I would say that 461 00:22:27,854 --> 00:22:30,334 Speaker 1: it really depends, see if you're in a newsroom 462 00:22:30,579 --> 00:22:32,949 Speaker 1: and you tell me that you will not be disturbed 463 00:22:32,959 --> 00:22:35,899 Speaker 1: over the week and that's like sounds crazy to me 464 00:22:35,910 --> 00:22:39,810 Speaker 1: because somebody could die on a Saturday. So that's where 465 00:22:39,819 --> 00:22:43,410 Speaker 1: I'm coming from. But obviously, if you're working for a 466 00:22:43,489 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: company that your boss doesn't need to invoke all these 467 00:22:47,170 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: extra things or whatever, then you should make it clear. 468 00:22:51,099 --> 00:22:54,709 Speaker 1: Right. Exactly. And it also boils down, I feel to 469 00:22:54,719 --> 00:22:57,229 Speaker 1: what you want as well because I think for each 470 00:22:57,239 --> 00:23:00,829 Speaker 1: individual young working adult, it also boils down to what 471 00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:03,270 Speaker 1: they value, say. For example, for me right now in 472 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,130 Speaker 1: my phase of life, salary is pretty important to me. 473 00:23:06,140 --> 00:23:08,150 Speaker 1: But at the same time, the growth so being able 474 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,750 Speaker 1: to go to work and know that I'm growing my 475 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:11,650 Speaker 1: whether or not it's an 476 00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:14,209 Speaker 1: the personal front on a skills based front. I think 477 00:23:14,219 --> 00:23:18,188 Speaker 1: that's something I value. If culture and say for example, 478 00:23:18,199 --> 00:23:21,719 Speaker 1: the ability to work with a lot of different managers 479 00:23:21,729 --> 00:23:24,589 Speaker 1: is something that you value or even travel then yeah, 480 00:23:24,599 --> 00:23:26,218 Speaker 1: I think those are things that you need to be 481 00:23:26,229 --> 00:23:28,619 Speaker 1: mindful of. One thing that I would also say to 482 00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:31,300 Speaker 1: my younger self is to not feel like the job 483 00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:32,449 Speaker 1: needs to cover everything. 484 00:23:32,739 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, because at the end of the day, if you 485 00:23:34,650 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: can't find passion in certain things, you can always make 486 00:23:37,130 --> 00:23:39,819 Speaker 1: it up from other aspects of your life. Yeah. So 487 00:23:39,829 --> 00:23:43,649 Speaker 1: your job is that sounds sensible. So had some sensible 488 00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:47,589 Speaker 1: advice and something I'm aligned with as well. I think 489 00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:52,149 Speaker 1: a lot of people, it's not necessarily a younger person thing, 490 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:58,170 Speaker 1: but I notice that people want conflicting things in my 491 00:23:58,180 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: experience 492 00:23:59,459 --> 00:24:03,449 Speaker 1: they might want a job that gives them purpose, that 493 00:24:03,459 --> 00:24:06,530 Speaker 1: adds value that pays well. 494 00:24:07,449 --> 00:24:13,050 Speaker 1: But they want very strict controls over time. Real life, 495 00:24:13,109 --> 00:24:19,489 Speaker 1: especially work life is not so straightforward, kind of messy. 496 00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:22,869 Speaker 1: Kind of often have to color outside of the lines. 497 00:24:23,459 --> 00:24:25,670 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day you would have 498 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,139 Speaker 1: to figure out is this really for me, if it 499 00:24:29,150 --> 00:24:31,410 Speaker 1: makes you more unhappy, then it makes you happy. 500 00:24:31,969 --> 00:24:34,189 Speaker 1: It's time to go, Jane. What do you think? Yeah, 501 00:24:34,199 --> 00:24:38,708 Speaker 1: I think it's really best and calculated in how many 502 00:24:38,719 --> 00:24:42,239 Speaker 1: Singaporeans look at HDB flats right before they buy HDB flats, 503 00:24:42,250 --> 00:24:44,150 Speaker 1: they want it to be the cheapest after they bought 504 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,229 Speaker 1: it become owners, they want it to be the most expensive. 505 00:24:46,550 --> 00:24:49,030 Speaker 1: So there's always this hypocrisy 506 00:24:49,109 --> 00:24:51,869 Speaker 1: somewhat, but really try to be a bit more realistic. 507 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,250 Speaker 1: You cannot have the perfect situation, everything, the perfect office, 508 00:24:55,260 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: the perfect boss, perfect colleagues, the brand new Macbook, the 509 00:25:00,689 --> 00:25:04,969 Speaker 1: beer tap, five different flavors. It just doesn't all come together. 510 00:25:04,979 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: But if you 511 00:25:06,670 --> 00:25:10,229 Speaker 1: are growing within the workspace, if you have, of course, 512 00:25:10,239 --> 00:25:13,739 Speaker 1: a great boss and you have great opportunities to work 513 00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:16,839 Speaker 1: at that might be the best benchmark that you should 514 00:25:16,849 --> 00:25:20,890 Speaker 1: look at anything above that might just be frills. Everyone 515 00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:24,689 Speaker 1: should recognize that managing up is really a never ending thing. 516 00:25:24,699 --> 00:25:27,219 Speaker 1: That's a really good article by an entrepreneur called West C. 517 00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:29,169 Speaker 1: She recently wrote an article called 15 518 00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 1: Principles to Managing Up and she ended the piece with 519 00:25:32,209 --> 00:25:35,129 Speaker 1: managing up is a never ending thing. And when I 520 00:25:35,140 --> 00:25:37,689 Speaker 1: read that I was reminded of a social post written 521 00:25:37,699 --> 00:25:40,030 Speaker 1: by Mr Brown. Mr Brown was in a grab car 522 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,739 Speaker 1: and the driver was complaining about last time in corporate job, 523 00:25:42,750 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: I have to manage my boss. And then now I 524 00:25:44,650 --> 00:25:46,829 Speaker 1: don't have to listen to anyone. Mr Brown said, then 525 00:25:46,839 --> 00:25:49,959 Speaker 1: he just lean forward and say, turn left. So ultimately, 526 00:25:49,969 --> 00:25:51,750 Speaker 1: everyone has to listen to someone 527 00:25:51,969 --> 00:25:55,170 Speaker 1: and it begins by really acknowledging that every one of 528 00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:57,379 Speaker 1: us just have to manage up whether we want it 529 00:25:57,390 --> 00:26:01,899 Speaker 1: or not. I don't think you have an ideal boss, right? 530 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,030 Speaker 1: We are not perfect. So everyone has good stuff and 531 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,069 Speaker 1: bad stuff. You just have to know what's your threshold, 532 00:26:10,609 --> 00:26:13,489 Speaker 1: what you need to accept and what you can't. I'm 533 00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:15,260 Speaker 1: saying this as a boss as well. 534 00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:19,729 Speaker 1: Ok. If you have suggestions and topics you want us 535 00:26:19,739 --> 00:26:22,180 Speaker 1: to cover or even someone you think would make a 536 00:26:22,189 --> 00:26:24,619 Speaker 1: great guest for the show, please reach out to us, 537 00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:27,489 Speaker 1: Adrian and I are both on linkedin. It's pretty easy 538 00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: to find us, easier to find Adrian than to find 539 00:26:30,410 --> 00:26:33,569 Speaker 1: me and share this episode with someone you think could 540 00:26:33,579 --> 00:26:36,810 Speaker 1: benefit from it. Thanks for listening to this podcast and 541 00:26:36,819 --> 00:26:39,939 Speaker 1: thanks to the CN podcast team. Till next week, have 542 00:26:39,949 --> 00:26:40,968 Speaker 1: a great work week.