1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,279 Speaker 1: This is AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:03,549 --> 00:00:06,099 Speaker 1: Hello, you're listening to CNN correspondent with me Steve Lai. 3 00:00:06,449 --> 00:00:09,359 Speaker 1: And on this episode, we're going to take you to 4 00:00:09,369 --> 00:00:13,260 Speaker 1: the forests of Taiwan. You may have heard the philosophical 5 00:00:13,270 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: thought experiment that goes if a tree falls in a 6 00:00:16,209 --> 00:00:18,790 Speaker 1: forest and no one is around to hear it. Does 7 00:00:18,799 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: it make a sound? But did you know that if 8 00:00:21,329 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: a tree falls in a forest in Taiwan and no 9 00:00:23,930 --> 00:00:26,139 Speaker 1: one is around to hear it, then there's a good 10 00:00:26,149 --> 00:00:30,940 Speaker 1: chance it's being illegally logged by what locals call mountain rats. 11 00:00:34,229 --> 00:00:37,458 Speaker 1: Mountain rats work in a group in which they delegate 12 00:00:37,470 --> 00:00:42,098 Speaker 1: the work at different layers from finding tree chopping them down, 13 00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:45,379 Speaker 1: carrying them down the mountains. And before they hand over 14 00:00:45,389 --> 00:00:48,740 Speaker 1: to the couriers and delivered to the buyers, that's the 15 00:00:48,750 --> 00:00:52,259 Speaker 1: deputy chief of the seventh Special Police Corps. We Cheng. 16 00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:55,470 Speaker 1: In the past, the police only arrested mountain rats who 17 00:00:55,479 --> 00:00:57,540 Speaker 1: were responsible for chopping down the trees. 18 00:00:57,810 --> 00:01:01,090 Speaker 1: But in 2020 that changed when the police launched a 19 00:01:01,099 --> 00:01:06,010 Speaker 1: special project, aptly named the Rat Extermination program and joining 20 00:01:06,019 --> 00:01:08,839 Speaker 1: me to tell us why this is important. How big 21 00:01:08,849 --> 00:01:11,639 Speaker 1: a problem illegal logging is and what's being done to 22 00:01:11,650 --> 00:01:15,410 Speaker 1: stop it is our Taiwan correspondent Victoria Jen Victoria, thanks 23 00:01:15,419 --> 00:01:18,610 Speaker 1: for joining me today. Now, to do this story, I 24 00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: understand you had to put your hiking 25 00:01:20,540 --> 00:01:23,370 Speaker 1: boots on and head out into the lush greenery. What 26 00:01:23,379 --> 00:01:24,550 Speaker 1: was that experience like? 27 00:01:24,739 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 2: Yes. Well, I must say it's the most difficult C 28 00:01:27,970 --> 00:01:32,349 Speaker 2: C episode that I have ever produced because hiking through 29 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,509 Speaker 2: the virgin Forest can be really challenging. 30 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,110 Speaker 2: The terrains are very rough because they are rarely traveled 31 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: by hikers. So I had quite a few falls and 32 00:01:42,690 --> 00:01:47,639 Speaker 2: cuts and bruises on my legs. Now, thanks to my rangers, 33 00:01:47,650 --> 00:01:50,569 Speaker 2: I was able to survive the journey, but I must 34 00:01:50,580 --> 00:01:53,930 Speaker 2: say it's all worth a while because um, the natural 35 00:01:53,940 --> 00:01:57,339 Speaker 2: forest was so beautiful and magnificent. I felt like I 36 00:01:57,349 --> 00:02:01,319 Speaker 2: was in paradise now and I picked the topic to 37 00:02:01,330 --> 00:02:02,750 Speaker 2: do the report is 38 00:02:02,983 --> 00:02:07,392 Speaker 2: because that illegal logging in Taiwan has been rarely reported 39 00:02:07,402 --> 00:02:10,393 Speaker 2: by foreign media. And I think it's very important to 40 00:02:10,401 --> 00:02:15,033 Speaker 2: raise public awareness and to help protect Taiwan's forestry. Yeah, 41 00:02:15,042 --> 00:02:17,483 Speaker 1: very important job. And just quickly, how long were you 42 00:02:17,492 --> 00:02:19,202 Speaker 1: out there for? Like, how much trekking did you do? 43 00:02:19,212 --> 00:02:20,843 Speaker 1: Do you know how much ground you covered? I 44 00:02:20,852 --> 00:02:25,343 Speaker 2: think I covered very limited ground because of given the 45 00:02:25,352 --> 00:02:28,733 Speaker 2: fact that, you know, I have never hiked before. So 46 00:02:28,742 --> 00:02:30,063 Speaker 2: we managed to finish 47 00:02:30,205 --> 00:02:33,996 Speaker 2: two hours of hiking and that was actually pretty much 48 00:02:34,005 --> 00:02:35,296 Speaker 2: my maximum. 49 00:02:35,425 --> 00:02:38,845 Speaker 1: We totally appreciate your efforts for getting out there, tell 50 00:02:38,856 --> 00:02:41,175 Speaker 1: us more about Taiwan's forests then and the types of 51 00:02:41,186 --> 00:02:44,516 Speaker 1: trees that these poachers or mountain rats as they called 52 00:02:44,526 --> 00:02:44,886 Speaker 1: that they're 53 00:02:44,895 --> 00:02:49,136 Speaker 2: targeting. Well, more than 60% of Taiwan's land is covered 54 00:02:49,145 --> 00:02:53,416 Speaker 2: by forest and such coverage ratio is among the top 55 00:02:53,425 --> 00:02:57,335 Speaker 2: 10 in Asia. After Japan, South Korea and Malaysia 56 00:02:57,570 --> 00:03:02,940 Speaker 2: and poachers, usually they target indigenous timber such as Cyprus 57 00:03:02,949 --> 00:03:07,019 Speaker 2: and they only grow in Japan, Taiwan and the US. 58 00:03:07,179 --> 00:03:12,020 Speaker 2: And now they only account for 4% of Taiwan's total forestry. 59 00:03:12,029 --> 00:03:14,580 Speaker 2: So each of them can you imagine can be sold 60 00:03:14,589 --> 00:03:18,690 Speaker 2: up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Wow. 61 00:03:18,699 --> 00:03:22,740 Speaker 1: So they are very precious indeed for these smugglers. And 62 00:03:22,750 --> 00:03:24,199 Speaker 1: we'll get a bit on to the demand 63 00:03:24,570 --> 00:03:26,130 Speaker 1: in just a bit. But what did you learn about 64 00:03:26,139 --> 00:03:30,089 Speaker 1: how these mountain rats operate? And how do they know 65 00:03:30,100 --> 00:03:33,610 Speaker 1: which trees are precious and where those trees are? Well, 66 00:03:33,619 --> 00:03:37,250 Speaker 2: these mountain rats they operate in groups and the group 67 00:03:37,259 --> 00:03:40,679 Speaker 2: leader would delegate works to its workers and some would 68 00:03:40,690 --> 00:03:44,199 Speaker 2: be in charge of locating the trees and some would 69 00:03:44,210 --> 00:03:47,330 Speaker 2: be in charge of cutting down the trees and others 70 00:03:47,339 --> 00:03:50,449 Speaker 2: would be responsible for transporting the trees 71 00:03:50,533 --> 00:03:55,563 Speaker 2: to the processing factories. And also the woodcraft artist, basically, 72 00:03:55,574 --> 00:03:58,673 Speaker 2: they know where those trees are, is because they are 73 00:03:58,684 --> 00:04:01,824 Speaker 2: very precious and rare and that they would get a 74 00:04:01,833 --> 00:04:06,143 Speaker 2: specific orders from buyers with pictures. They would tell them 75 00:04:06,154 --> 00:04:08,664 Speaker 2: that what type of tree that they want. And they 76 00:04:08,673 --> 00:04:10,934 Speaker 2: would pay a very high price. So they would do 77 00:04:10,944 --> 00:04:13,304 Speaker 2: whatever it takes to find those trees. 78 00:04:13,313 --> 00:04:15,533 Speaker 1: Wow. And why are they so precious though? What makes 79 00:04:15,544 --> 00:04:16,523 Speaker 1: them so valuable? 80 00:04:16,837 --> 00:04:20,997 Speaker 2: It's not only because these trees take hundreds and thousands 81 00:04:21,005 --> 00:04:24,897 Speaker 2: of years to grow, but also because the quality of 82 00:04:24,907 --> 00:04:28,266 Speaker 2: the woods is just top tier compared to most of 83 00:04:28,277 --> 00:04:32,116 Speaker 2: the other tree types in the world. And also it's 84 00:04:32,127 --> 00:04:36,527 Speaker 2: very rare. It only grew in Taiwan and Japan and 85 00:04:36,717 --> 00:04:41,106 Speaker 2: also the US, it's not very accessible by consumers and 86 00:04:41,117 --> 00:04:42,596 Speaker 2: only a few places in the 87 00:04:42,682 --> 00:04:46,661 Speaker 2: world that grows Cyprus. And then according to Taiwan's authority, 88 00:04:46,671 --> 00:04:51,141 Speaker 2: Taiwan has actually the best quality of Cyprus. And that's 89 00:04:51,152 --> 00:04:54,522 Speaker 2: why you see in a lot of the Japanese ri 90 00:04:54,532 --> 00:04:58,332 Speaker 2: during the colonial period, they use a lot of those 91 00:04:58,342 --> 00:05:02,951 Speaker 2: Cyprus trees for their thrid. That is also why it's 92 00:05:02,962 --> 00:05:06,272 Speaker 2: a very rare timber and it takes such a long 93 00:05:06,282 --> 00:05:08,671 Speaker 2: time to grow. So even though they are growing, 94 00:05:08,755 --> 00:05:10,885 Speaker 2: doing it now, I mean, by the time that they're 95 00:05:10,895 --> 00:05:14,405 Speaker 2: fully mature, we will all be dead by then, you know. 96 00:05:14,735 --> 00:05:18,115 Speaker 1: Wow. And where is this demand coming from? It must 97 00:05:18,126 --> 00:05:20,805 Speaker 1: be incredibly rich people that want the sort of the 98 00:05:20,815 --> 00:05:24,945 Speaker 1: prestigious or what they perceive as being something to brag about. 99 00:05:24,955 --> 00:05:27,565 Speaker 1: Like I've got this tree, it's so many years old. It's, 100 00:05:27,575 --> 00:05:30,615 Speaker 1: it's such a in such a hard thing to get 101 00:05:30,626 --> 00:05:30,635 Speaker 1: a 102 00:05:30,645 --> 00:05:34,485 Speaker 2: hold of. That's right. The demand mainly came from 103 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 2: and tourists, especially Chinese tourists. Now police said that there 104 00:05:39,769 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 2: has been a spike in demand during 2011 and 2015 105 00:05:44,690 --> 00:05:48,399 Speaker 2: when there is a huge influx of Chinese tourists because 106 00:05:48,410 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: many would buy them as souvenirs to bring back home 107 00:05:51,928 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 2: because they don't have Cyprus in China. So also Cyprus 108 00:05:56,170 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: is very rare and it smells really good. So they 109 00:05:59,928 --> 00:06:00,820 Speaker 2: are very popular 110 00:06:00,903 --> 00:06:02,573 Speaker 2: among art collectors and 111 00:06:02,584 --> 00:06:06,044 Speaker 1: tourists. They're not necessarily smuggled out of Taiwan directly. Then 112 00:06:06,053 --> 00:06:08,743 Speaker 1: they're able to be bought within Taiwan and then people 113 00:06:08,753 --> 00:06:10,194 Speaker 1: just take them home as souvenirs. 114 00:06:10,204 --> 00:06:15,563 Speaker 2: No, actually they are being processed by processing factories and 115 00:06:15,574 --> 00:06:19,363 Speaker 2: then they would go to woodcraft artist and then they 116 00:06:19,373 --> 00:06:23,093 Speaker 2: would sculpture these pieces of wood and then into art 117 00:06:23,104 --> 00:06:25,743 Speaker 2: pieces and then they would sell it there. 118 00:06:26,014 --> 00:06:26,873 Speaker 1: Oh, ok. 119 00:06:27,170 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: Did you have anything else to add on where this 120 00:06:29,769 --> 00:06:30,849 Speaker 1: sort of where they end up? 121 00:06:30,859 --> 00:06:35,570 Speaker 2: Basically, media reports said that township in Mli County is 122 00:06:35,579 --> 00:06:39,350 Speaker 2: where most poach wood used to turn up. It's Taiwan's 123 00:06:39,359 --> 00:06:44,220 Speaker 2: wood carving capital with more than 300 shops. And Taiwanese 124 00:06:44,230 --> 00:06:48,299 Speaker 2: and Chinese tourists flock to this town for its artwork. 125 00:06:48,428 --> 00:06:51,368 Speaker 2: But shop owners there, I spoke to, they tell me 126 00:06:51,380 --> 00:06:54,619 Speaker 2: that it's no longer the case because the penalty now 127 00:06:54,630 --> 00:06:58,238 Speaker 2: is too high for them to do so. Illegal loggers 128 00:06:58,250 --> 00:07:02,500 Speaker 2: and buyers could face up to 10.5 years in prison 129 00:07:02,619 --> 00:07:09,428 Speaker 2: and up to $650,000 in fines. So the harsh penalties 130 00:07:09,790 --> 00:07:13,690 Speaker 2: serve as an effective deterrence for illegal logging. It's 131 00:07:13,700 --> 00:07:15,809 Speaker 1: great to see that authorities are sort of taking steps 132 00:07:15,820 --> 00:07:18,519 Speaker 1: to make sure it doesn't happen. And next on CNN correspondent, 133 00:07:18,529 --> 00:07:21,230 Speaker 1: we'll hear more from Victoria about what else authorities are 134 00:07:21,239 --> 00:07:23,619 Speaker 1: doing to put a stop to these mountain rats and 135 00:07:23,630 --> 00:07:28,239 Speaker 1: the challenges the 1000 forest rangers face when guarding 1.62 136 00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: million hectares of forests across the island. 137 00:07:37,559 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: Are you looking for ways to make your money work harder, 138 00:07:40,779 --> 00:07:46,010 Speaker 1: tips on saving investing or retiring early perhaps or advice 139 00:07:46,019 --> 00:07:49,529 Speaker 1: on big ticket decisions like buying a house or owning 140 00:07:49,540 --> 00:07:52,869 Speaker 1: a car. I'm Andrea. He host of C N A 141 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,179 Speaker 1: S top personal finance podcast, money talks. And these are 142 00:07:57,190 --> 00:07:59,649 Speaker 1: some of the things we find out for you. 143 00:08:00,010 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: Each week I get a guest to share personal stories 144 00:08:03,329 --> 00:08:06,609 Speaker 1: and answer burning questions that help you make sense of 145 00:08:06,619 --> 00:08:10,519 Speaker 1: the latest financial trends. Go check out the complete money 146 00:08:10,529 --> 00:08:14,380 Speaker 1: talks playlist on the C N A app, Spotify, Google 147 00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: or Apple podcasts. 148 00:08:23,940 --> 00:08:26,279 Speaker 1: You're back with me Steve Lai and our Taiwan correspondent 149 00:08:26,290 --> 00:08:28,750 Speaker 1: Victoria Jen. And before the break I told you that 150 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: there were 1000 forest rangers guarding 1.62 million hectares of 151 00:08:32,969 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: forest across Taiwan that breaks down to one forest ranger 152 00:08:36,690 --> 00:08:42,010 Speaker 1: responsible for an area roughly the size of 1500 football fields, 153 00:08:42,429 --> 00:08:45,049 Speaker 1: but it's not just the sheer land size is the problem. 154 00:08:45,059 --> 00:08:50,028 Speaker 1: Here is forest ranger Lai Bou one time we ran 155 00:08:50,039 --> 00:08:53,299 Speaker 1: into a mountain rat immediately, he put down the stolen 156 00:08:53,309 --> 00:08:56,939 Speaker 1: timber and started running. Of course, we chased after him, 157 00:08:56,948 --> 00:09:00,609 Speaker 1: but later we heard a gunshot. So apparently they were 158 00:09:00,619 --> 00:09:03,277 Speaker 1: not alone. They worked as a group. So we had 159 00:09:03,289 --> 00:09:06,318 Speaker 1: to stop and go back to ask for police assistance. 160 00:09:07,150 --> 00:09:08,659 Speaker 1: Victoria tell us more. 161 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,978 Speaker 2: Yes, the job is more dangerous than we had imagined 162 00:09:12,989 --> 00:09:16,409 Speaker 2: because they not only have to travel through dangerous terrains 163 00:09:16,419 --> 00:09:20,118 Speaker 2: every day, they also have to track down the mountain rats. 164 00:09:20,130 --> 00:09:23,919 Speaker 2: And many of these mountain rats are armed with weapons. 165 00:09:23,940 --> 00:09:28,479 Speaker 2: But because the rangers are, they are not law enforcement officers, 166 00:09:28,489 --> 00:09:31,950 Speaker 2: so they don't have the authority to arrest the mountain rats, 167 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,479 Speaker 2: nor do they have the authority to carry weapons. So 168 00:09:35,489 --> 00:09:36,858 Speaker 2: our ranger told us 169 00:09:36,955 --> 00:09:40,325 Speaker 2: one of his colleagues was actually shot in the arm 170 00:09:40,375 --> 00:09:43,664 Speaker 2: by one of the mountain rats when he spotted him. 171 00:09:43,825 --> 00:09:47,364 Speaker 2: And so that was how dangerous their job is. They 172 00:09:47,375 --> 00:09:50,875 Speaker 2: don't really have much of a protection. So that's why 173 00:09:50,885 --> 00:09:54,284 Speaker 2: they avoid trying to have face to face encounters with 174 00:09:54,294 --> 00:09:57,645 Speaker 2: these mountain rats. And instead they would just, if they 175 00:09:57,655 --> 00:09:59,674 Speaker 2: spot them, they would just report to the 176 00:09:59,684 --> 00:10:04,125 Speaker 1: police. So these mountain rats, these poachers are very well resourced. 177 00:10:04,135 --> 00:10:04,625 Speaker 1: It would seem, 178 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 2: yes, they are, a lot of them belong to gangs 179 00:10:07,969 --> 00:10:11,450 Speaker 2: and some are belong to drug cartels and so that 180 00:10:11,460 --> 00:10:15,890 Speaker 2: they know exactly where to look for, possibly the, uh 181 00:10:15,900 --> 00:10:18,849 Speaker 2: where the police are looking and they know all the 182 00:10:18,859 --> 00:10:22,669 Speaker 2: locations of the surveillance cameras and so that they would 183 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 2: try to avoid all these places and also they would 184 00:10:26,729 --> 00:10:28,109 Speaker 2: place whistle blowers 185 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,229 Speaker 2: at every intersection of the roads so that if they 186 00:10:32,239 --> 00:10:36,479 Speaker 2: spot a police officer or they spot like a ranger 187 00:10:36,489 --> 00:10:40,909 Speaker 2: and they will immediately alert their partners. So they are 188 00:10:40,919 --> 00:10:43,030 Speaker 2: very resourceful in that sense. 189 00:10:43,450 --> 00:10:45,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, Victoria, you mentioned that one of the forest rangers 190 00:10:45,489 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: you spoke to was shot in the arm. Did they 191 00:10:47,409 --> 00:10:51,429 Speaker 1: share any other experiences that they had in encountering these poaches? 192 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,849 Speaker 2: Well, basically they said that when they do their jobs, 193 00:10:55,859 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 2: they would try to make sure that they keep all 194 00:10:58,570 --> 00:11:02,650 Speaker 2: their senses open. And for instance, they keep their eyes 195 00:11:02,659 --> 00:11:05,159 Speaker 2: open all the time to see if there is any 196 00:11:05,169 --> 00:11:09,109 Speaker 2: changes in the forest. And also they keep their ears 197 00:11:09,119 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: open to make sure that they don't hear any unusual noises. 198 00:11:13,530 --> 00:11:17,130 Speaker 2: And finally, they also keep their nose open to smell 199 00:11:17,140 --> 00:11:18,010 Speaker 2: any aroma 200 00:11:18,086 --> 00:11:21,596 Speaker 2: from freshly cut trees. So it's very important for them 201 00:11:21,606 --> 00:11:24,676 Speaker 2: to stay on high alert at all time while making 202 00:11:24,687 --> 00:11:26,216 Speaker 2: their daily rounds. 203 00:11:26,386 --> 00:11:28,956 Speaker 1: And you mentioned the cypress trees have a unique smell, 204 00:11:28,966 --> 00:11:31,507 Speaker 1: I suppose that's a giveaway that they're looking for that. 205 00:11:31,517 --> 00:11:33,006 Speaker 1: Like a tree has been freshly cut 206 00:11:33,017 --> 00:11:37,476 Speaker 2: down. That's right. I personally smell the cypress tree and 207 00:11:37,546 --> 00:11:41,406 Speaker 2: it smells so good. It has one aroma and with 208 00:11:41,416 --> 00:11:44,356 Speaker 2: a touch of lemon sense and so 209 00:11:44,434 --> 00:11:48,424 Speaker 2: it smells very relaxing and it's very soothing and 210 00:11:48,434 --> 00:11:51,544 Speaker 1: hence the demand, I suppose, tell us more about this 211 00:11:51,554 --> 00:11:54,934 Speaker 1: special project called the rat extermination program that the police 212 00:11:54,943 --> 00:11:58,314 Speaker 1: launched back in 2020. Has that improved things? Yes, 213 00:11:58,323 --> 00:12:02,083 Speaker 2: it has. The program is actually designed to track down 214 00:12:02,093 --> 00:12:05,763 Speaker 2: not just the mountain rats but also the buyers as well. 215 00:12:05,773 --> 00:12:09,164 Speaker 2: Now in the past, they only arrested the mountain rats 216 00:12:09,174 --> 00:12:10,703 Speaker 2: which had failed to affect, 217 00:12:10,780 --> 00:12:14,991 Speaker 2: effectively stop the illegal logging. But by arresting those who 218 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,370 Speaker 2: buy the illegally log woods has also reduced the number 219 00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:25,070 Speaker 2: of illegal logging cases. So once the buying decreases, illegal 220 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,950 Speaker 2: logging decreases as well, 221 00:12:27,231 --> 00:12:29,421 Speaker 1: I understand as well that authorities are going high tech 222 00:12:29,431 --> 00:12:32,949 Speaker 1: using QR codes and Blockchain technology in law enforcement to 223 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,770 Speaker 1: protect the trees. I've not heard that before. Can you 224 00:12:35,780 --> 00:12:37,051 Speaker 1: explain how that works? 225 00:12:37,599 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 2: Yes, sure. Taiwan Forestry Bureau claims that Taiwan is the 226 00:12:41,450 --> 00:12:46,228 Speaker 2: first in the world using QR code and Blockchain technology 227 00:12:46,239 --> 00:12:47,848 Speaker 2: for forestry protection. 228 00:12:48,190 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: They would upload every piece of timber to the system 229 00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:56,020 Speaker 2: to obtain a QR code. And this can allow consumers 230 00:12:56,030 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: to identify whether the product is using legitimate timber. So 231 00:13:00,849 --> 00:13:03,510 Speaker 2: next time, Steve, if you come to Taiwan and you 232 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: want to buy precious wood products, make sure that you 233 00:13:06,770 --> 00:13:09,409 Speaker 2: look for the QR code and scan it with your 234 00:13:09,419 --> 00:13:12,940 Speaker 2: phone and find out if it's made from legit timber. 235 00:13:13,349 --> 00:13:14,900 Speaker 1: Well, it's really good to know and a really good 236 00:13:14,909 --> 00:13:17,030 Speaker 1: way of doing it and I understand it's not just 237 00:13:17,039 --> 00:13:20,229 Speaker 1: technology that they're using. They're also reaching out and getting 238 00:13:20,239 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: the community involved in helping to keep Taiwan's trees safe. 239 00:13:23,330 --> 00:13:27,150 Speaker 2: That's right. They are getting a lot of the community 240 00:13:27,159 --> 00:13:31,510 Speaker 2: people to volunteer to help because hiking has become very 241 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,659 Speaker 2: popular now in Taiwan. And so that a lot of hikers, 242 00:13:35,669 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: they are willing to volunteer to, 243 00:13:38,270 --> 00:13:42,309 Speaker 2: if they see any suspicious people or vehicles that are 244 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,390 Speaker 2: traveling around the areas and they would just immediately report 245 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 2: to the police. And also they have recruited some college students. 246 00:13:50,809 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: And also they are planning to increase the number of 247 00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:58,239 Speaker 2: rangers in order to better protect Taiwan's forest. And 248 00:13:58,250 --> 00:13:59,750 Speaker 1: have they got you on board as well? Are you 249 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,700 Speaker 1: going to join the hiking brigade now that you got 250 00:14:01,710 --> 00:14:02,340 Speaker 1: a taste for it? 251 00:14:04,869 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: Well, I will give it a thought. 252 00:14:08,770 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: Ok, I, I won't push you on that one. But 253 00:14:11,010 --> 00:14:13,700 Speaker 1: this podcast version that we're doing is a companion piece 254 00:14:13,710 --> 00:14:15,989 Speaker 1: in effect to the story that you've put together for 255 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,169 Speaker 1: C N A correspondent for the TV version. As you 256 00:14:19,179 --> 00:14:21,940 Speaker 1: put the story together. Tell us a bit about your thoughts, 257 00:14:21,950 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: the things you've learned. And if there are any anecdotes 258 00:14:24,770 --> 00:14:26,380 Speaker 1: or stories that didn't make it to the TV 259 00:14:26,445 --> 00:14:28,494 Speaker 1: version that you could share with us. Yeah. 260 00:14:28,505 --> 00:14:31,484 Speaker 2: Well, I really want to say is that um this 261 00:14:31,494 --> 00:14:36,505 Speaker 2: assignment has given me the experience of many first time 262 00:14:36,544 --> 00:14:39,684 Speaker 2: experience on a lot of things. I mean, it's the 263 00:14:39,695 --> 00:14:43,734 Speaker 2: first time that I hike through virgin forest. And also 264 00:14:43,744 --> 00:14:46,455 Speaker 2: I got a chance to fly the surveillance plane for 265 00:14:46,465 --> 00:14:47,955 Speaker 2: the first time as well. 266 00:14:48,169 --> 00:14:52,479 Speaker 2: And it's used to take high resolution photos to detect 267 00:14:52,489 --> 00:14:57,270 Speaker 2: any deforestation. But there is this one little issue is 268 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,580 Speaker 2: that there is no bathroom for the lady on the plane. 269 00:15:00,590 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: So I actually have to put on an adult diaper 270 00:15:04,885 --> 00:15:10,315 Speaker 2: just in case. Um So that was also my first 271 00:15:10,325 --> 00:15:14,775 Speaker 2: time experience and the flight was three hours and luckily 272 00:15:14,784 --> 00:15:16,554 Speaker 2: I didn't have to go. So I was gonna 273 00:15:16,565 --> 00:15:18,775 Speaker 1: say three hours, maybe you could hold on if it 274 00:15:18,784 --> 00:15:20,854 Speaker 1: was like seven or eight, you might have a problem. 275 00:15:21,940 --> 00:15:25,289 Speaker 2: I I didn't want to take the chance though. So, 276 00:15:25,820 --> 00:15:29,510 Speaker 2: but it was an amazing experience to witness first hand 277 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,979 Speaker 2: the beauty of Taiwan's forestry. And also I'm very impressed 278 00:15:32,989 --> 00:15:37,690 Speaker 2: with how the government is taking forest protections effort up 279 00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:38,729 Speaker 2: to the sky. 280 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,750 Speaker 1: Victoria, thank you so much for speaking with me today and, 281 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,710 Speaker 1: and sharing with me what Taiwan's authorities are doing to 282 00:15:43,719 --> 00:15:47,349 Speaker 1: stop these mountain rats. We've learned so much about Taiwan 283 00:15:47,359 --> 00:15:48,650 Speaker 1: and its forests and also 284 00:15:48,849 --> 00:15:52,169 Speaker 1: about your first times for many things in this story 285 00:15:52,179 --> 00:15:54,469 Speaker 1: from hiking in the forest to adult diapers as well. 286 00:15:54,479 --> 00:15:57,299 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for speaking with me today. Thank you. 287 00:15:57,969 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed listening to Victoria's account of tree 288 00:16:00,409 --> 00:16:03,510 Speaker 1: poaching in Taiwan. I was heartened to hear how authorities 289 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,580 Speaker 1: in Taiwan have turned the tide using technology and community 290 00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:09,859 Speaker 1: engagement to protect their forests and send those mountain rats 291 00:16:09,869 --> 00:16:13,010 Speaker 1: scurrying for cover. But when it comes to poaching, whether 292 00:16:13,020 --> 00:16:16,510 Speaker 1: it's trees or exotic animals, the reality is we all 293 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:17,739 Speaker 1: have a part to play 294 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,250 Speaker 1: if we don't desire and choose these products. If we 295 00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:25,530 Speaker 1: essentially stop the demand for them, then the poaching will 296 00:16:25,539 --> 00:16:26,210 Speaker 1: stop too. 297 00:16:26,830 --> 00:16:30,049 Speaker 1: The TV version C N A correspondent airs every Wednesday 298 00:16:30,059 --> 00:16:32,419 Speaker 1: at 9 30 PM. You can also catch up with 299 00:16:32,429 --> 00:16:34,239 Speaker 1: it whenever you like on C N A dot Asia 300 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,359 Speaker 1: do like and subscribe to this podcast version that takes 301 00:16:37,369 --> 00:16:40,169 Speaker 1: you behind the scenes with our correspondents. You never know 302 00:16:40,179 --> 00:16:43,270 Speaker 1: what you might learn. Thank you for listening. Our podcast 303 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,849 Speaker 1: team is made up of Christina Robert Clara Ong and 304 00:16:46,859 --> 00:16:47,349 Speaker 1: Me Steve.