1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,230 Speaker 1: This is a C N A podcast. 2 00:00:04,790 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: So, hi guys. It's Steven here and welcome to another 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,530 Speaker 1: episode of Heart Of The Matter. You know, when you 4 00:00:09,530 --> 00:00:13,110 Speaker 1: live in an HDB flat, smelling your neighbor's chicken curry, 5 00:00:13,110 --> 00:00:15,980 Speaker 1: hearing the screams of a newborn baby or perhaps the 6 00:00:15,980 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: squabbles of siblings are not that uncommon. But what if 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:20,210 Speaker 1: you heard 8 00:00:20,220 --> 00:00:23,790 Speaker 1: the voices of a couple in argument? What would you do? 9 00:00:23,810 --> 00:00:26,950 Speaker 1: Would you just assume it's no big deal and none 10 00:00:26,950 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: of your business? But what if that yelling is a 11 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: sign of something more dangerous going on at home? And 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: what if by stepping in, you could have saved someone 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,129 Speaker 1: Recently, a family of three, the husband, wife and their 14 00:00:39,130 --> 00:00:42,930 Speaker 1: daughter were jailed for abusing their 27 year old domestic worker, 15 00:00:42,940 --> 00:00:45,950 Speaker 1: a neighbor heard shouting from the flat called the police 16 00:00:45,950 --> 00:00:48,909 Speaker 1: who arrived 10 minutes later now that domestic worker had 17 00:00:48,909 --> 00:00:52,059 Speaker 1: been suffering for abuse for several months. By that time 18 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: in Singapore, more cases of family violence are being reported 19 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,530 Speaker 1: but few are because bystanders called the authorities among child 20 00:00:59,530 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 1: abuse cases investigated by the Ministry of Social and Family Developments, 21 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: Child Protective Service. Only 1.5% were reported by the public. 22 00:01:08,010 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: So that's the focus of our discussion today. Why do 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,580 Speaker 1: we hesitate to intervene? And even if we think something 24 00:01:14,580 --> 00:01:17,550 Speaker 1: terrible is going on, what can we do is calling 25 00:01:17,550 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: the cops? At 999, our only option. 26 00:01:22,420 --> 00:01:24,690 Speaker 1: My guests today are on the ground dealing with some 27 00:01:24,690 --> 00:01:27,890 Speaker 1: of the toughest social problems. They are Marcus Lim, head 28 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:31,860 Speaker 1: of touch, family support. Hi, thanks for having Dr Joseph Long, 29 00:01:31,860 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 1: senior consultant psychiatrist from promises healthcare 1 to 2 to 30 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,340 Speaker 1: be here, Mohammed Farez, deputy director, family and community support 31 00:01:39,350 --> 00:01:43,139 Speaker 1: at A M K FSC community services. Thanks for having me. Okay, 32 00:01:43,140 --> 00:01:45,569 Speaker 1: welcome everyone. So here in Singapore, you know, more than 33 00:01:45,584 --> 00:01:48,175 Speaker 1: 90% of us live in high rise buildings in our 34 00:01:48,175 --> 00:01:51,695 Speaker 1: HDBS are condos, they're all apartments. So there's no way 35 00:01:51,695 --> 00:01:54,945 Speaker 1: you really can't not hear what's going on with your neighbor, right? 36 00:01:54,955 --> 00:01:57,845 Speaker 1: But yet we're still finding stories of terrible things happening 37 00:01:57,845 --> 00:02:00,125 Speaker 1: to those who live so close to us. Now, why 38 00:02:00,125 --> 00:02:02,705 Speaker 1: is that? And why are we not stepping up when 39 00:02:02,705 --> 00:02:05,995 Speaker 1: we should? Are we too afraid of being called busybodies 40 00:02:05,995 --> 00:02:08,745 Speaker 1: or that it might turn out to be a false alarm? 41 00:02:09,070 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: So Joseph, let me start with you. I think 42 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: one of the reason is very interesting. If your neighbors 43 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,870 Speaker 2: are making a lot of noise and partying throughout the night, 44 00:02:16,870 --> 00:02:19,380 Speaker 2: the music is on, what do you call the police? 45 00:02:19,389 --> 00:02:19,820 Speaker 2: If you can't 46 00:02:19,820 --> 00:02:20,889 Speaker 1: sleep? Probably 47 00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:21,490 Speaker 2: Right. 48 00:02:22,050 --> 00:02:24,710 Speaker 2: So I think why is it when somebody's crying or 49 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: shouting and you try to sleep and turn it off? 50 00:02:27,810 --> 00:02:28,010 Speaker 2: So 51 00:02:28,010 --> 00:02:31,070 Speaker 1: why is that? Is there some thinking behind the psychology? 52 00:02:31,070 --> 00:02:32,250 Speaker 1: What's going on in our heads? 53 00:02:32,980 --> 00:02:36,310 Speaker 2: Some people may, I don't want to report maybe because 54 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 2: if they're really, there was a bad incident or accident, 55 00:02:39,690 --> 00:02:42,730 Speaker 2: they may be I witness, the police may actually call 56 00:02:42,730 --> 00:02:45,650 Speaker 2: them up for further investigation and so on. So a 57 00:02:45,650 --> 00:02:51,140 Speaker 2: lot of people, okay, they don't travel for themselves. So 58 00:02:51,139 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 2: that's one possibility if somebody is screaming, shouting or crying 59 00:02:55,530 --> 00:02:58,299 Speaker 2: is something serious would happen. If I really report with 60 00:02:58,300 --> 00:02:59,310 Speaker 2: the police then 61 00:02:59,510 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: say that I my weakness and whether I need to 62 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: go to court, I think that's a myth psychiatrist where 63 00:03:05,850 --> 00:03:09,890 Speaker 2: handle cases of domestic violence or even a person's mental 64 00:03:09,889 --> 00:03:11,930 Speaker 2: health issues. When I go to court, I look at 65 00:03:11,930 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: the police weakness and they don't really call those people 66 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,700 Speaker 2: who actually report to the police. 67 00:03:16,710 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, from what we know the police will 68 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,369 Speaker 1: not call you to come out as a witness to say, hey, 69 00:03:21,540 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: you called us about your neighbor, right? And it's funny 70 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,130 Speaker 1: because I know years back, I came across this experiment 71 00:03:26,130 --> 00:03:28,609 Speaker 1: similar to what you mentioned in a small town. They 72 00:03:28,610 --> 00:03:32,269 Speaker 1: had one home play drums really loudly at night between 73 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,810 Speaker 1: eight and nine p.m. And on the alternate night they 74 00:03:34,810 --> 00:03:37,370 Speaker 1: played the sound of a couple fighting, screaming and really 75 00:03:37,370 --> 00:03:40,060 Speaker 1: loud sounds and they noticed that with the drums, everyone 76 00:03:40,060 --> 00:03:41,030 Speaker 1: called and complained 77 00:03:41,260 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: with the screaming couple. Hardly anyone said anything about it. 78 00:03:44,570 --> 00:03:46,170 Speaker 1: Like we don't want to get involved. Don't want to 79 00:03:46,170 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: be a part of this Marcus. What do you think? 80 00:03:49,490 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: I think to an extent, certainly people worried naturally about 81 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: being capable or busy body. It might also be that 82 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:56,980 Speaker 1: they're not really sure what to do in the face 83 00:03:56,980 --> 00:04:00,500 Speaker 1: of family Violence is quite daunting issue, daunting subject. The 84 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:02,350 Speaker 1: main authority that comes to mind might be the police 85 00:04:02,350 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: as we've mentioned and they might be questioning whether or 86 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,290 Speaker 1: not this issue warrants police intervention, 87 00:04:08,420 --> 00:04:11,020 Speaker 1: they might be second guessing themselves and that comes from 88 00:04:11,020 --> 00:04:13,410 Speaker 1: not knowing where else they can approach for help. So 89 00:04:13,410 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: in a way, I'm like I hear it, but I'm like, 90 00:04:15,170 --> 00:04:17,270 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, are they really fighting or is this 91 00:04:17,270 --> 00:04:20,890 Speaker 1: just another argument that is no big deal at which 92 00:04:20,890 --> 00:04:24,210 Speaker 1: point do I act? So you're saying, you know, yeah, 93 00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:27,180 Speaker 1: with domestic violence, is there a time that it's such 94 00:04:27,180 --> 00:04:29,980 Speaker 1: a thing as too early to act on it first? 95 00:04:29,990 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: It's also about fear and 96 00:04:33,180 --> 00:04:36,210 Speaker 1: maybe it's not about just early or not, is whether 97 00:04:36,210 --> 00:04:41,270 Speaker 1: or not people perceive such problems as problems that are 98 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,820 Speaker 1: confined within the family or is it a societal problem? 99 00:04:45,029 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: I lived in a rental flat when I was young 100 00:04:46,890 --> 00:04:50,110 Speaker 1: and I had neighbors where there was violence happening as well. 101 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,770 Speaker 1: And in my conversations with family members and even other neighbors, 102 00:04:53,770 --> 00:04:56,349 Speaker 1: they were saying that there's violence happening, but it's their 103 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,130 Speaker 1: own problem. So I think socially, I'm not sure how 104 00:05:00,130 --> 00:05:01,630 Speaker 1: it was with me in a camping area. But when 105 00:05:01,630 --> 00:05:04,710 Speaker 1: people were staying in flats, the perception has always been 106 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: the moment your door is closed, anything personnel is confined 107 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,910 Speaker 1: within a personal space so becomes a personal problem as 108 00:05:11,910 --> 00:05:15,419 Speaker 1: opposed to a societal or political problem that it is today. 109 00:05:15,430 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: I mean, fair enough, that's why it's a term behind 110 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,020 Speaker 1: closed doors. Right. True. When you're in your home, you 111 00:05:20,020 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: expect that whatever happens in my home is my own business. 112 00:05:23,710 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: At which point does that line change? Because when it 113 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,300 Speaker 1: comes to domestic violence or abuse cases, sure it's your 114 00:05:31,310 --> 00:05:33,870 Speaker 1: own problem, so to speak. But if none of us 115 00:05:33,870 --> 00:05:36,380 Speaker 1: step up and do anything, then that's not a good thing. 116 00:05:36,390 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: A perspective shift might be helpful because when we think 117 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,390 Speaker 1: of signs of family violence in the community, I think 118 00:05:41,390 --> 00:05:43,940 Speaker 1: most we instantly think of like witnessing somebody get beaten up, 119 00:05:43,950 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, or like hearing, screaming and shouting or observing bruises. 120 00:05:47,170 --> 00:05:49,930 Speaker 1: But in my experience, that's already quite a high hanging 121 00:05:49,930 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: fruit because that tends to happen when violence is really 122 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,380 Speaker 1: at its peak. 123 00:05:53,529 --> 00:05:56,530 Speaker 1: And if we are only looking for those signs of violence, 124 00:05:56,529 --> 00:06:00,380 Speaker 1: we might miss out on earlier, signs of violence or 125 00:06:00,390 --> 00:06:03,390 Speaker 1: the opportunity to respond earlier. So you mean that's already 126 00:06:03,390 --> 00:06:06,049 Speaker 1: when violence is physically happening and we can see it 127 00:06:06,050 --> 00:06:07,750 Speaker 1: is already quite late in the game. In many of 128 00:06:07,750 --> 00:06:08,830 Speaker 1: the cases that I've had 129 00:06:09,015 --> 00:06:12,005 Speaker 1: of working together with, you know, it could be a 130 00:06:12,005 --> 00:06:14,085 Speaker 1: punch to the summer kick to the leg. Then these 131 00:06:14,085 --> 00:06:16,375 Speaker 1: are injuries that may not be obvious to the eye 132 00:06:16,385 --> 00:06:19,115 Speaker 1: can be easily covered up. Many victims also endure their 133 00:06:19,115 --> 00:06:22,105 Speaker 1: abuse quietly so it's not audible, it could be other 134 00:06:22,105 --> 00:06:25,055 Speaker 1: forms of violence like being threatened with a weapon. And 135 00:06:25,055 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: in that case, there's no physical harm, there's no physical injury, 136 00:06:28,750 --> 00:06:31,250 Speaker 1: but it's all traumatic. The long point shopping that if 137 00:06:31,250 --> 00:06:33,580 Speaker 1: we're only looking at those signs of violence already, it 138 00:06:33,580 --> 00:06:35,790 Speaker 1: could already be quite late on. But how else can 139 00:06:35,790 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: we spot the signs earlier? 140 00:06:36,810 --> 00:06:40,490 Speaker 2: I think Marcus is absolutely right. This 23 years in psychiatry, 141 00:06:40,500 --> 00:06:44,370 Speaker 2: we always talk about escalation of violence usually starts with you, 142 00:06:44,370 --> 00:06:47,969 Speaker 2: raise your voice. Were you shouting? They're screaming. There's this 143 00:06:47,970 --> 00:06:49,710 Speaker 2: agitation and irritability 144 00:06:49,990 --> 00:06:53,140 Speaker 2: then people may start to smash things and throw things 145 00:06:53,150 --> 00:06:56,740 Speaker 2: on the floor or start to throw things at people. 146 00:06:56,750 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: And then of course, escalate to physical violence. If it's 147 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,219 Speaker 2: just verbal aggression 148 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,940 Speaker 2: and threats, like what Marcus brought up, you can't see 149 00:07:04,940 --> 00:07:08,620 Speaker 2: the physical science, but I think it's good to stop there. Obviously, 150 00:07:08,620 --> 00:07:12,010 Speaker 2: there's an escalation. If it's actually behind closed doors, sometimes 151 00:07:12,010 --> 00:07:15,410 Speaker 2: some people get confined, you know, they get stuck because 152 00:07:15,420 --> 00:07:17,140 Speaker 2: they were having quarrel and then somebody locked the door, 153 00:07:17,140 --> 00:07:19,610 Speaker 2: you can't go out, can't escape because there's a lot 154 00:07:19,610 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: of tension, it just 155 00:07:20,490 --> 00:07:24,150 Speaker 2: kept going up and up has really heated up and then, 156 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:25,390 Speaker 2: then becomes a physical 157 00:07:25,390 --> 00:07:29,410 Speaker 1: violence. So it only gets worse from there. But these signs, 158 00:07:29,410 --> 00:07:31,970 Speaker 1: some of these that you mentioned, how would the neighbor 159 00:07:31,970 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: know about it? It's behind closed doors. I can't see 160 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,490 Speaker 1: it only at the point where I can hear it 161 00:07:36,490 --> 00:07:38,580 Speaker 1: or perhaps see it then. Right. 162 00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: I work within the family service center setting. Actually, we 163 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,350 Speaker 1: do see a larger number of neighbors taking the stance 164 00:07:45,350 --> 00:07:49,150 Speaker 1: to start the report. I think the idea of close donors, right? 165 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about myself like when I used to stay 166 00:07:51,810 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: previously in a flat in, 167 00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:56,620 Speaker 1: I had a neighbor just staying right opposite me. But 168 00:07:56,620 --> 00:07:59,670 Speaker 1: for five whole years, I've never exchanged a single sentence 169 00:07:59,670 --> 00:08:01,590 Speaker 1: to him up to the point when I was moving 170 00:08:01,590 --> 00:08:03,450 Speaker 1: to Europe and I said it's time for me to. 171 00:08:03,460 --> 00:08:08,390 Speaker 1: So violence is not just someone just decides to be violent, 172 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,890 Speaker 1: it takes time and sometimes the relationship that people have 173 00:08:11,890 --> 00:08:13,890 Speaker 1: in the communities that we are. If I know the 174 00:08:13,890 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: person that I could start to understand that maybe you 175 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,860 Speaker 1: are being affected by something at home 176 00:08:19,060 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: and sometimes violence starts from maybe being confined at home 177 00:08:22,010 --> 00:08:26,370 Speaker 1: or verbal abuse happening, which then escalates into higher degrees 178 00:08:26,370 --> 00:08:30,500 Speaker 1: or higher levels of physical abuse of punishment. So if 179 00:08:30,500 --> 00:08:33,020 Speaker 1: we know our neighbors that we can know who are 180 00:08:33,020 --> 00:08:34,929 Speaker 1: the people in our community, I guess 181 00:08:35,179 --> 00:08:36,809 Speaker 1: the idea of how can we loosen some of these 182 00:08:36,809 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: closed doors, relationship wise so that we can also be 183 00:08:39,929 --> 00:08:42,569 Speaker 1: open to situations where people might be operating. But that's 184 00:08:42,570 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: like trying to say we want to go back to 185 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,500 Speaker 1: the kampong day. It's good and bad because everybody knew 186 00:08:46,500 --> 00:08:50,449 Speaker 1: everything about your life. Right. We don't really want that today, 187 00:08:50,450 --> 00:08:53,329 Speaker 1: but at the same time, it's true within your own neighborhood. 188 00:08:53,355 --> 00:08:55,615 Speaker 1: You wanna, you know, I recognize the uncle and auntie 189 00:08:55,615 --> 00:08:57,405 Speaker 1: that goes down the elevator. I don't see them for 190 00:08:57,405 --> 00:08:59,455 Speaker 1: a few days. I should think, maybe go knock on 191 00:08:59,455 --> 00:09:01,585 Speaker 1: their door and see what's going on. Right? And sometimes 192 00:09:01,585 --> 00:09:04,245 Speaker 1: at the practitioner level, it's not so easy to, let's 193 00:09:04,245 --> 00:09:06,324 Speaker 1: say someone might just call us and say that the 194 00:09:06,325 --> 00:09:09,395 Speaker 1: baby is crying or I hear beating. But even from 195 00:09:09,395 --> 00:09:12,675 Speaker 1: a professional position, if you just come in with no 196 00:09:12,675 --> 00:09:15,255 Speaker 1: specific handle into the family system, 197 00:09:15,490 --> 00:09:18,010 Speaker 1: it becomes conversations. Where is everything okay? And the person 198 00:09:18,010 --> 00:09:20,420 Speaker 1: might say, oh, it's okay but better to say is 199 00:09:20,420 --> 00:09:22,410 Speaker 1: everything okay than to not say anything at all, right? 200 00:09:22,410 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: Because that could be, isn't that one of the motors for, 201 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,630 Speaker 1: for sort of like suicide prevention? Just say, hey, how's 202 00:09:27,630 --> 00:09:28,630 Speaker 1: it going today? One life 203 00:09:28,630 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: lost is one too many. So I, I suppose 204 00:09:31,620 --> 00:09:33,900 Speaker 2: so if you're a neighbor and you're asking how severe 205 00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:36,090 Speaker 2: it is before I report, I think number one, you 206 00:09:36,090 --> 00:09:39,620 Speaker 2: look at the frequency, you find that this becomes from 207 00:09:39,620 --> 00:09:43,150 Speaker 2: once a month, it becomes weekly or daily. You hear 208 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,750 Speaker 2: it louder and louder and the duration becomes longer and longer. 209 00:09:47,890 --> 00:09:51,470 Speaker 2: It's very intense. Definitely is getting more severe. I mean, 210 00:09:51,470 --> 00:09:54,100 Speaker 2: it's just once off, you hear somebody scream, then it's 211 00:09:54,110 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 2: just less than one minute. Then you wonder and you'll 212 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,290 Speaker 2: be listening. Right. But you hear it, it's like 10 213 00:10:00,290 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: minutes since half an hour, isn't it time to report something? 214 00:10:03,809 --> 00:10:06,429 Speaker 2: Then of course, if you hear repeatedly, I think it's 215 00:10:06,429 --> 00:10:07,420 Speaker 2: useful when you call the police, 216 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,150 Speaker 2: it's been happening the last few months. I've been hearing this. 217 00:10:12,150 --> 00:10:14,850 Speaker 2: It's almost every week and now it's like it's getting 218 00:10:14,850 --> 00:10:17,620 Speaker 2: more intense is really very loud. I'm very concerned. Somebody 219 00:10:17,620 --> 00:10:20,980 Speaker 2: has been hurt, somebody's life is at risk. I tell 220 00:10:20,980 --> 00:10:21,410 Speaker 2: you the police 221 00:10:21,410 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: will arrive worst case scenario, you are wrong, which is 222 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: actually a good thing. Right. Exactly. 223 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,790 Speaker 1: So, how afraid should we be of telling on our neighbors? 224 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,900 Speaker 1: I guess that's the question now because we're trying to 225 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: tell people. Are there listen signs besides what Joseph just mentioned, 226 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,420 Speaker 1: you know, a longer duration of the fights, arguments. Are 227 00:10:39,420 --> 00:10:41,219 Speaker 1: there other signs that perhaps that we can look out 228 00:10:41,220 --> 00:10:44,010 Speaker 1: for when we see our neighbors when we hear them 229 00:10:44,010 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: that might give us some indication that something is not 230 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,490 Speaker 1: going right. Talking about violence is quite daunting is quite 231 00:10:49,490 --> 00:10:49,910 Speaker 1: hard about it. 232 00:10:50,006 --> 00:10:51,746 Speaker 1: It's easier to just ask, how are you and things 233 00:10:51,746 --> 00:10:53,646 Speaker 1: like that, that that is a lot easier to do 234 00:10:53,646 --> 00:10:55,295 Speaker 1: when you know each other. So I agree with the 235 00:10:55,306 --> 00:10:57,806 Speaker 1: earlier point about knowing your neighbors better. Actually, we can 236 00:10:57,806 --> 00:11:00,626 Speaker 1: also look beyond the community of neighbors to maybe a 237 00:11:00,626 --> 00:11:05,186 Speaker 1: community of colleagues, friends, relatives. Because when you know, the 238 00:11:05,186 --> 00:11:08,486 Speaker 1: person better, you actually can observe changes in their behavior, 239 00:11:08,496 --> 00:11:12,116 Speaker 1: you know, any more withdrawn, depressed and also in their relationship, 240 00:11:12,126 --> 00:11:12,665 Speaker 1: you know, it's a 241 00:11:12,772 --> 00:11:15,391 Speaker 1: dynamic. Is it demeaning? Is there, is the power dynamic, 242 00:11:15,392 --> 00:11:18,432 Speaker 1: very imbalance is their aggression already displayed in the relationship 243 00:11:18,432 --> 00:11:21,332 Speaker 1: in front of you? And at that point, those are 244 00:11:21,332 --> 00:11:24,032 Speaker 1: the early signs actually and you can probably intervene by 245 00:11:24,032 --> 00:11:25,732 Speaker 1: just asking. Are you okay? You know, I've noticed that 246 00:11:25,732 --> 00:11:27,881 Speaker 1: things are a bit off between the two of you. 247 00:11:27,892 --> 00:11:30,171 Speaker 1: When we respond there, we were ready to do that. 248 00:11:30,172 --> 00:11:33,301 Speaker 1: It's a lot easier. Firstly, we can get more timely 249 00:11:33,302 --> 00:11:35,540 Speaker 1: response and because, you know, the person, 250 00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:38,210 Speaker 1: the person is a lot likelier to heed your advice 251 00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: or to hear you are or to share with you 252 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,460 Speaker 1: than a complete stranger, right? My guess is that the 253 00:11:42,460 --> 00:11:44,910 Speaker 1: first time you say, are you ok? Yeah. Yeah, everything's fine, 254 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,429 Speaker 1: but maybe the next day, the day after us a 255 00:11:47,429 --> 00:11:49,710 Speaker 1: bit more and at some point, they'll probably realize that 256 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,830 Speaker 1: you as my friend notices something, 257 00:11:52,210 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: the focal point being the relationship. I mean, what was 258 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,969 Speaker 1: helpful for the family that was being, experiencing abuse at 259 00:11:59,970 --> 00:12:02,750 Speaker 1: that point of time was my mom really reaching out 260 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,150 Speaker 1: and building the friendship and only then conversations about safety 261 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:07,949 Speaker 1: also happened. 262 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,660 Speaker 1: The other reality is that you don't need to be 263 00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:15,940 Speaker 1: accountable for reporting. So that means I can make a report. 264 00:12:15,950 --> 00:12:18,829 Speaker 1: And let's see if you report to a social worker, 265 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,250 Speaker 1: the person making the report can choose to remain anonymous 266 00:12:22,260 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: in a way one so called fail safe to make 267 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,100 Speaker 1: sure that our members in our community can make the report. 268 00:12:28,110 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: But I guess one of the challenges I have as 269 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:30,020 Speaker 1: a fact 270 00:12:30,245 --> 00:12:33,094 Speaker 1: is that sometimes if we come in as a stranger 271 00:12:33,095 --> 00:12:36,145 Speaker 1: coming to someone's home, I say, how are you? This person? 272 00:12:36,145 --> 00:12:38,525 Speaker 1: I said okay, then I don't have the handle, but 273 00:12:38,525 --> 00:12:42,085 Speaker 1: sometimes we probably need the community to continue monitoring. Let's 274 00:12:42,085 --> 00:12:45,055 Speaker 1: say I'm a member of the community reaching out, calling 275 00:12:45,054 --> 00:12:48,415 Speaker 1: the police are calling the social service agency that yes, 276 00:12:48,415 --> 00:12:51,935 Speaker 1: there's this family possibly being abused or possibly being harmed. 277 00:12:52,130 --> 00:12:55,590 Speaker 1: I can also be part of a monitoring system that 278 00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:58,150 Speaker 1: can probably be another step on top of the reader 279 00:12:58,150 --> 00:13:01,180 Speaker 1: relationship as well. Is this something that needs to become 280 00:13:01,179 --> 00:13:04,230 Speaker 1: more part of our D N A right now in 281 00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:06,670 Speaker 1: our community, in our neighborhood? I see you. I say hello. 282 00:13:06,670 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: But actually I know nothing about Joseph, even though it's 283 00:13:09,340 --> 00:13:12,350 Speaker 1: in the elevator every day. You know what I mean? Actually, 284 00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: I'm not interested in really getting to know, just ask 285 00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:18,980 Speaker 2: normal questions. So I think ideally is a community of care. 286 00:13:18,990 --> 00:13:21,189 Speaker 2: But I think the second level is how 287 00:13:21,205 --> 00:13:26,385 Speaker 2: we actually prevent, for example, childhood abuse, spousal abuse or 288 00:13:26,385 --> 00:13:28,775 Speaker 2: in this case, it was actually made abuse. Singapore has 289 00:13:28,775 --> 00:13:31,185 Speaker 2: actually made a lot of progress from those times, has 290 00:13:31,184 --> 00:13:34,105 Speaker 2: just kampong or rental flats. I think we also have 291 00:13:34,105 --> 00:13:38,065 Speaker 2: a whole network of social workers and community partners other 292 00:13:38,065 --> 00:13:38,809 Speaker 2: than the police 293 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,940 Speaker 2: and police, when they investigate, the approach is not punitive 294 00:13:41,950 --> 00:13:45,660 Speaker 2: but rather is like the friendly neighborhood policeman, right? Okay. 295 00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:48,380 Speaker 2: They'll pop by say hi and I think sometimes when 296 00:13:48,380 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: they popped by it does de escalate the situation presents itself. 297 00:13:54,010 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 2: And then the thing then is that the fam 298 00:13:56,260 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: members be really wanting the help because there is a 299 00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:02,730 Speaker 2: police presence. The main thing then is that all this 300 00:14:02,730 --> 00:14:05,140 Speaker 2: made abuse and all this stuff is actually coming up 301 00:14:05,140 --> 00:14:07,910 Speaker 2: to the surface. What can we do about it? I 302 00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:11,599 Speaker 2: think early reporting is an ominous, don't 303 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: be afraid, don't be afraid to report. 304 00:14:18,620 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: Are you looking for ways to make your money work 305 00:14:21,290 --> 00:14:25,300 Speaker 1: harder for you or need tips on saving investing and 306 00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:29,460 Speaker 1: making financial decisions? Join me, Andrea, hang on money talks. 307 00:14:29,470 --> 00:14:32,540 Speaker 1: Ciena's top personal finance podcast 308 00:14:32,670 --> 00:14:36,690 Speaker 1: from Investment Basics to the fire movement and legacy planning. 309 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,450 Speaker 1: Money talks looks at financial trends and stories that matter 310 00:14:40,460 --> 00:14:44,390 Speaker 1: to you. Check out our complete playlist on the CNN app, 311 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:49,300 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, follow 312 00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:52,580 Speaker 1: us or subscribe for new episodes every Tuesday. 313 00:14:58,430 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: Is it possible as far as you're saying, you, you 314 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: grew up in a neighborhood with rental flat that when 315 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: you live in an area where perhaps social problems are 316 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,150 Speaker 1: more common where this kind of violence is seen as 317 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: more normal. After a while, you become a bit desensitized 318 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,230 Speaker 1: to it and you think, oh, well, it's just another 319 00:15:13,230 --> 00:15:15,270 Speaker 1: day here. You might tend to hear shouting and you 320 00:15:15,270 --> 00:15:18,940 Speaker 1: might just dismiss it as a family issue. I'm also wondering, 321 00:15:18,953 --> 00:15:22,013 Speaker 1: is it helpful to take a deviant standpoint? Right. Do 322 00:15:22,013 --> 00:15:24,333 Speaker 1: we reach out to communities and say, how do we 323 00:15:24,333 --> 00:15:27,863 Speaker 1: stop violence or could we take a more asset based approach? 324 00:15:27,863 --> 00:15:31,313 Speaker 1: That means how do we build relationships in communities by 325 00:15:31,313 --> 00:15:35,013 Speaker 1: the same time, identify who might be people who can 326 00:15:35,013 --> 00:15:38,433 Speaker 1: be connected in the community, who can identify whether issues 327 00:15:38,433 --> 00:15:39,460 Speaker 1: are happening and 328 00:15:39,476 --> 00:15:41,186 Speaker 1: There might be a better person to reach out because 329 00:15:41,196 --> 00:15:44,026 Speaker 1: I've worked with families where I've been engaging them for 330 00:15:44,026 --> 00:15:47,736 Speaker 1: 10-15 sessions, but they might not be wanting to share 331 00:15:47,736 --> 00:15:51,726 Speaker 1: any struggles. But the moment we found someone in the community, 332 00:15:51,726 --> 00:15:55,056 Speaker 1: maybe a resident RC chairperson or someone living in the 333 00:15:55,056 --> 00:15:58,606 Speaker 1: community itself reaching out was much easier because this person 334 00:15:58,606 --> 00:15:59,996 Speaker 1: would start to say 335 00:16:00,190 --> 00:16:03,010 Speaker 1: this person coming in is not coming in to remove 336 00:16:03,010 --> 00:16:06,490 Speaker 1: you from your home. It was a friendly face that 337 00:16:06,490 --> 00:16:09,070 Speaker 1: they knew it's a friendly face to make the connection. 338 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,420 Speaker 1: But in order to do that, there probably needs to 339 00:16:10,420 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: be that community building and how we can be scaffold. 340 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,270 Speaker 1: Those preventive measures will be nice if we all knew it, 341 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,710 Speaker 1: Our neighbors better and we kind of keep an eye 342 00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:20,810 Speaker 1: on them. But in this day and age, I don't 343 00:16:20,810 --> 00:16:23,580 Speaker 1: think that's realistic and I don't think we can expect that. 344 00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:25,530 Speaker 1: I don't think that's ever going to happen. There will 345 00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:27,690 Speaker 1: always be at least 20, of your neighbors that you 346 00:16:27,690 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: do not know, even if you're a very good neighbor 347 00:16:29,810 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: because they don't want to know you. Then how 348 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,550 Speaker 2: I think I was young also. I mean, there were 349 00:16:35,550 --> 00:16:38,390 Speaker 2: block parties so the MP will come and then we 350 00:16:38,390 --> 00:16:41,890 Speaker 2: have block parties, the resident committee, the chair and all that. 351 00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:43,940 Speaker 2: But also, I mean, if you look at the rental flats, 352 00:16:43,940 --> 00:16:45,950 Speaker 2: like you mentioned, I thought there was a very good 353 00:16:45,950 --> 00:16:46,790 Speaker 2: model in 354 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,970 Speaker 2: and basically they have the family service center, they have 355 00:16:50,980 --> 00:16:53,930 Speaker 2: the daycare center downstairs. When I went to visit, I 356 00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:57,190 Speaker 2: was sending food and rations and all that. It's like kampong, 357 00:16:57,190 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 2: you know, so they have all those so called village 358 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,190 Speaker 2: those more active when they go and say who haven't 359 00:17:02,190 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 2: come down to collect the food, they go and knock 360 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,980 Speaker 2: on doors and I agree with you. I mean, there 361 00:17:06,980 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 2: is drug problem, there is also alcohol problems and because 362 00:17:11,890 --> 00:17:13,970 Speaker 2: people are in rental flats, but I think we 363 00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:17,129 Speaker 2: and you have a community that's connected and you can 364 00:17:17,130 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 2: actually get early help, right? So it's not good for 365 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,850 Speaker 2: somebody to keep drinking, right? Or to keep on using 366 00:17:23,850 --> 00:17:26,610 Speaker 2: drugs and leave needles on the ground or in the news. 367 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,530 Speaker 2: So I think it's good to have early intervention. And 368 00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:30,090 Speaker 2: it's interesting 369 00:17:30,180 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: because to give hope to Singapore and Singaporeans, I think 370 00:17:34,410 --> 00:17:36,820 Speaker 1: when we did outreach to some of the blocks that 371 00:17:36,820 --> 00:17:39,580 Speaker 1: we were serving the residents that did say and state 372 00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:40,050 Speaker 1: that 373 00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:42,510 Speaker 1: I would be willing to be someone to help. If 374 00:17:42,510 --> 00:17:44,869 Speaker 1: let's say you call on me to help members of 375 00:17:44,869 --> 00:17:47,770 Speaker 1: my community just that they might not know what to do. 376 00:17:47,780 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: I guess maybe a certain activities or that we can 377 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,750 Speaker 1: look at is maybe how people can, first of all, 378 00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:56,900 Speaker 1: like identify that violence is happening, maybe let's move to that. So, 379 00:17:56,900 --> 00:17:59,510 Speaker 1: so we've talked a bit about the situations, but now 380 00:17:59,510 --> 00:18:02,010 Speaker 1: we're hearing that we're saying that people are generally willing 381 00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:04,970 Speaker 1: to help if called upon. So we're all inherently good 382 00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: people by nature, right? 383 00:18:06,170 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: We don't mean to be bad people. So if you 384 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,750 Speaker 1: ask me for help, I generally will help you. So 385 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,580 Speaker 1: what do we tell these people? And then, I mean, 386 00:18:12,580 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: how can they step up to help? What should they do? 387 00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:20,030 Speaker 1: Who can they call perhaps? How can they be that 388 00:18:20,030 --> 00:18:23,670 Speaker 1: helpful person? Even if nobody calls on them, you know, 389 00:18:23,670 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: where would we start with this? What do you think Marcus, 390 00:18:26,050 --> 00:18:28,550 Speaker 1: beyond just the police authorities, you know, there's also the 391 00:18:28,550 --> 00:18:32,270 Speaker 1: National Anti Violence Helpline could be another avenue 392 00:18:32,450 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: they could call and share some information, information like like 393 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,929 Speaker 1: frequency you brought up earlier, maybe provide other information as well. 394 00:18:37,930 --> 00:18:40,250 Speaker 1: Like what I've observed, you know, of any physical injuries 395 00:18:40,260 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: was a violence, verbal, what any weapons used. This will 396 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: help inform the authorities and the response is required identifiable 397 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,210 Speaker 1: information helped as well. Like block number, unit number, the 398 00:18:51,210 --> 00:18:53,770 Speaker 1: correct the sort of person, these things will help shape 399 00:18:53,770 --> 00:18:55,670 Speaker 1: the response to this family in need. 400 00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:58,030 Speaker 1: Beyond that, I think we're talking about just being a 401 00:18:58,030 --> 00:19:00,150 Speaker 1: more caring society. And I think that actually really speaks 402 00:19:00,150 --> 00:19:01,780 Speaker 1: to the heart of the matter. Like if we were 403 00:19:01,780 --> 00:19:05,030 Speaker 1: all just approaching this, not so much from stopping the violence, 404 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,010 Speaker 1: you know, but really just looking out for each other, 405 00:19:07,020 --> 00:19:10,230 Speaker 1: making sure that nobody is feeling unsafe in their homes. 406 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,210 Speaker 1: That might be a good start. And even if they 407 00:19:12,210 --> 00:19:15,340 Speaker 1: don't feel ready to call somebody they could as mentioned earlier, 408 00:19:15,340 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: reach out, reach out, 409 00:19:16,170 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: hey, how are you? You know, and it starts there 410 00:19:18,250 --> 00:19:21,010 Speaker 1: because that starts a relationship where you could eventually show 411 00:19:21,010 --> 00:19:22,959 Speaker 1: care for the person. And so the perspective shift here 412 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: is really not so much on the violence itself, but 413 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,619 Speaker 1: really can we support people who might be in need. 414 00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:30,530 Speaker 1: And like you said, if it's not a problem, then 415 00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong, there's nothing happening. So you're really saying 416 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,510 Speaker 1: prevention is better than cure, right? You know, 417 00:19:36,770 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: and these are some steps that we can, if we 418 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,330 Speaker 1: reach out to our neighbors and perhaps get to know 419 00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:43,209 Speaker 1: them a bit better, we will have a better sense 420 00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:46,330 Speaker 1: whether they are need or not. So that's the ideal state. 421 00:19:46,340 --> 00:19:49,070 Speaker 1: Is there the Plan B because we know not everyone's 422 00:19:49,070 --> 00:19:50,859 Speaker 1: going to be like that, I guess Plan B is 423 00:19:50,859 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: embedded with what Marcus is saying. The first step is 424 00:19:53,890 --> 00:19:57,070 Speaker 1: whenever you're concerned that violence might be happening and you're 425 00:19:57,070 --> 00:19:59,830 Speaker 1: not sure whether to call the suggestion. Always give is 426 00:19:59,830 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: always to err on the side of caution, 427 00:20:02,220 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: the N E V A hotline, you can choose to 428 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: remain anonymous, you can share your thoughts and concerns and 429 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: they can also make the decision and assessment about what 430 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,660 Speaker 1: further steps we need to be taken. Okay. So this 431 00:20:14,660 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: national Violence hotline, you're saying if I'm unsure whether my 432 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: neighbor is having some trouble, I call them, 433 00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:22,110 Speaker 1: they'll say, oh, can you describe the situation and then 434 00:20:22,109 --> 00:20:24,610 Speaker 1: they will guide me and help, I guess, figure out 435 00:20:24,609 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: whether it's something that needs to be addressed. They would 436 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,470 Speaker 1: also do the initial triad as well. So let's say 437 00:20:29,470 --> 00:20:32,770 Speaker 1: the information is sufficient or enough to tell us that 438 00:20:32,770 --> 00:20:35,580 Speaker 1: it is a concern that is happening in the community. 439 00:20:35,790 --> 00:20:38,090 Speaker 1: Then that's where they might work with the family service 440 00:20:38,090 --> 00:20:41,020 Speaker 1: centers or other partners in the community to be able 441 00:20:41,020 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: to reach out and do an outreach to the family 442 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: living in the flat. So that would trigger some support 443 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,959 Speaker 1: coming from the community. Somebody will go knock on the 444 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,220 Speaker 1: door and say so. But you can also choose, 445 00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:54,620 Speaker 1: let's say you make the report and you say that okay. 446 00:20:54,619 --> 00:20:57,590 Speaker 1: I want to still be supportive. You can also choose 447 00:20:57,590 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: to say that okay. If let's say there's any way 448 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,460 Speaker 1: I can continue to monitor and all that, maybe I 449 00:21:02,460 --> 00:21:05,580 Speaker 1: can give my contact to the social service agency or 450 00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:08,820 Speaker 1: the social worker who is out reaching to the family. 451 00:21:08,830 --> 00:21:10,970 Speaker 1: The FSS are not just the only touch point, there's 452 00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:13,490 Speaker 1: many different touch points as well. So they might be 453 00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:17,310 Speaker 1: grassroot leaders who might be mobilized as well. Touch points 454 00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: within the school systems so and so forth. Yeah. 455 00:21:20,290 --> 00:21:22,619 Speaker 1: So to a certain extent almost sounds like you can 456 00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:25,020 Speaker 1: cry out for help to anyone. The whole point is 457 00:21:25,020 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: as long as someone is alerted to it and then 458 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,670 Speaker 1: they can help get you the support you need, then 459 00:21:30,670 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: that will make a big difference. 460 00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:34,030 Speaker 1: Would it be fair to say that? I mean, so 461 00:21:34,030 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: in a way it could be the school. If the 462 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,669 Speaker 1: teacher notices something with the child, it could be a 463 00:21:38,670 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: fellow domestic worker who notices that when she's at the market, 464 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: she looks a bit downtrodden. So it could be basically 465 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,450 Speaker 1: anyone who interacts with each of us, 466 00:21:46,450 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 2: right. Yeah. And I think in Singapore for back to 467 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: the domestic Culpepper. I think the registration is that the 468 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,950 Speaker 2: helpers given one day off. I think that's very important. 469 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,850 Speaker 2: And then of course they have their passport and I 470 00:21:59,850 --> 00:22:01,630 Speaker 2: think they can actually contact somebody. 471 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,780 Speaker 2: It's good that there is actually registration laws actually in 472 00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 2: place because there's a lot of power difference, you know, 473 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,530 Speaker 2: somebody come from foreign land and passports taken away from them, 474 00:22:11,530 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 2: they have no contact with anyone else. 475 00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 2: There's also a movement towards screening and the agents being 476 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,020 Speaker 2: more involved than just place. But also to follow up. 477 00:22:20,020 --> 00:22:22,830 Speaker 2: The helpers also will need to see doctors for their 478 00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:25,770 Speaker 2: regular checkups and all that. There are few cases, the 479 00:22:25,780 --> 00:22:28,419 Speaker 2: family doctor was the one who called because they found something. 480 00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: So I think that's important. So we have a whole 481 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 2: network of support and also in the way surveillance and 482 00:22:33,890 --> 00:22:35,790 Speaker 2: okay support. 483 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,990 Speaker 1: But is that enough because as you mentioned, you know, 484 00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:40,290 Speaker 1: one case is still one case, too many, right? These 485 00:22:40,290 --> 00:22:41,659 Speaker 1: are lives that are lost and 486 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: lives that have been damaged for the long term. This 487 00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:46,230 Speaker 1: speaks to my earlier point about looking at community beyond 488 00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:51,050 Speaker 1: just the neighborhood, really a community of teachers, you know, classmates, colleagues, relatives, friends. 489 00:22:51,050 --> 00:22:52,910 Speaker 1: And and that means that we're probably picking up these 490 00:22:52,910 --> 00:22:54,490 Speaker 1: signs a lot, a lot earlier. 491 00:22:54,670 --> 00:22:56,810 Speaker 1: And in fact, it goes beyond just family violence, it 492 00:22:56,810 --> 00:22:59,010 Speaker 1: could be mental health support because they're checking how are 493 00:22:59,010 --> 00:23:01,270 Speaker 1: they doing? It could be social support because they actually 494 00:23:01,270 --> 00:23:03,740 Speaker 1: require some caseworker to work them through their financial issues, 495 00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: things like that. And these can all be picked up 496 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,010 Speaker 1: a lot earlier. If generally, we're all looking out for 497 00:23:08,010 --> 00:23:11,710 Speaker 1: each other in society, maybe just to address the idea 498 00:23:11,710 --> 00:23:14,370 Speaker 1: of fear may be members of the public might be 499 00:23:14,369 --> 00:23:18,060 Speaker 1: fearful if I make a report. Am I destroying the family? 500 00:23:18,330 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: But that's not the case as practitioners on the ground. 501 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,420 Speaker 1: What we do is we take a very child centric approach, 502 00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:27,940 Speaker 1: we look at how to get the family together as 503 00:23:27,940 --> 00:23:30,690 Speaker 1: much as possible. So through our assessments, only when we 504 00:23:30,690 --> 00:23:33,630 Speaker 1: know that we have clear information that a young person 505 00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:36,389 Speaker 1: or vulnerable person might be in danger, that's where we 506 00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:39,570 Speaker 1: might bring in resources. Removal is always the last resort, 507 00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:43,500 Speaker 1: but it's always working with the family, with the vulnerable 508 00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: persons in the family system 509 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: to see how we can continue supporting people in the community. 510 00:23:49,490 --> 00:23:52,930 Speaker 2: There's actually progress also in the court level, there's this 511 00:23:52,930 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: movement called therapeutic justice basis actually led by the judge 512 00:23:57,330 --> 00:24:01,050 Speaker 2: because exactly we wanted to protect the family. The Charles centric, 513 00:24:01,060 --> 00:24:03,109 Speaker 2: you know, provide the best environment for the child to 514 00:24:03,109 --> 00:24:05,659 Speaker 2: actually grow up this this movement that's actually coming is 515 00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:06,930 Speaker 2: very new. It's just six months. 516 00:24:06,940 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: Okay. And you're saying this therapeutic justices sort of approaches 517 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: from the point of therapy, is there some treatment is 518 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 2: actually needed, 519 00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:17,110 Speaker 2: especially when I was brought up with some mental health 520 00:24:17,109 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 2: issues was that alcohol was drugs involved and so on. 521 00:24:21,930 --> 00:24:25,990 Speaker 2: I think it's important to help the new generation, younger 522 00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:29,310 Speaker 2: generation to actually strive also. I think that's a wonderful 523 00:24:29,310 --> 00:24:33,170 Speaker 2: thing that even at the court level, the system is 524 00:24:33,170 --> 00:24:34,030 Speaker 2: actually changing as a. 525 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,469 Speaker 1: So this is a good reflection of, I guess the 526 00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: way we are evolving as a society while technology keeps 527 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,300 Speaker 1: us more connected, but yet at the same time, more disconnected, 528 00:24:43,310 --> 00:24:44,889 Speaker 1: you know, we need to find ways to watch out 529 00:24:44,890 --> 00:24:46,580 Speaker 1: for each other. So, so thank you so much for 530 00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:48,940 Speaker 1: coming in. Sharing your thoughts with us. There's no quick 531 00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:50,970 Speaker 1: solution to this. You know, when it comes to reporting 532 00:24:50,970 --> 00:24:53,050 Speaker 1: on family violence as a bystander, I think 533 00:24:53,530 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: it's good to hear that you've reassured us that we 534 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,270 Speaker 1: should act first air on the side of caution. Don't 535 00:24:58,270 --> 00:25:01,310 Speaker 1: be afraid to ask for help because it's better to 536 00:25:01,310 --> 00:25:04,170 Speaker 1: find out that we are wrong. Otherwise we did play 537 00:25:04,170 --> 00:25:06,220 Speaker 1: a big part in helping save somebody's life. So I 538 00:25:06,220 --> 00:25:06,570 Speaker 1: think 539 00:25:06,780 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: that is significant and of course, the tip that you're 540 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,699 Speaker 1: mentioned is get to know your neighbors. That sounds easy. 541 00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:13,770 Speaker 1: But I think if we just take a bit of 542 00:25:13,770 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: time each day to just get to know our neighbors 543 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,530 Speaker 1: a bit better than when something goes wrong. Not only 544 00:25:18,530 --> 00:25:20,710 Speaker 1: are we looking out for them, they will be looking 545 00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:23,619 Speaker 1: out for us too. So thank you all gentlemen for coming, 546 00:25:23,619 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: sharing your thoughts and to all of you who are 547 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,940 Speaker 1: listening in, we hope we've been able to better equip 548 00:25:27,940 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: you with some tools to help out, you know, all 549 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: those who are in our community, those who live so 550 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:33,810 Speaker 1: near to us, 551 00:25:34,250 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: if we ever need to step in on that note. 552 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to heart of the matter. Please do 553 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,170 Speaker 1: give us a review on Spotify and Apple. We'd love 554 00:25:41,170 --> 00:25:44,350 Speaker 1: to hear from you. The team behind this episode is 555 00:25:44,350 --> 00:25:48,700 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Chan, Chan Chan Tiffany and, and Christina Robert and 556 00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:50,410 Speaker 1: I'm Steven signing off.