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Speaker 1: this is a C. N. A podcast.

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Speaker 2: Why

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Speaker 1: is it that every time Singles Day come around, people

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Speaker 1: tend to buy record number of things.

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Speaker 2: We're expecting a new record, the single day here in Singapore.

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Speaker 2: And that's because we have much, much more buyers who

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Speaker 2: have come online and many, many more brands and retailers

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Speaker 2: who are joining the celebration as well.

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Speaker 1: Bence like Singles Day christmas Day or New Year, they

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Speaker 1: give people a reason to buy,

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Speaker 1: it gives them a justification

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Speaker 2: to buy whatever they want And

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Speaker 1: you see people purchasing in large amount

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Speaker 1: as more people turn to the comfort of online shopping

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Speaker 1: in a pandemic year. Singles Day sales top records last

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Speaker 1: year in just 35 minutes rosario 11 11 sales figures

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Speaker 1: smashed numbers that took two hours to reach. In 2019

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Speaker 1: Shopping saw 200 million items up three times from 70 million.

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Speaker 1: Now consultancy bain. In a study with Facebook forecasted that

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Speaker 1: Southeast Asia will have 310 million people shopping online by 2025.

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Speaker 1: This was just two years back.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to COVID 19. This milestone was reached at the

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Speaker 1: end of 2020

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Speaker 1: yet this massive shopping extravaganza of 11 11 this year

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Speaker 1: is coming the week of cop 26 the biggest climate

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Speaker 1: conference of global calendar. Does it all just feel a

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Speaker 1: little odd in our sink. How do such staggering online

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Speaker 1: shopping figures Square with a growing consciousness over sustainability

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Speaker 1: and rising concerns over wasteful consumption. Can we lay off

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Speaker 1: the non stop buying

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Speaker 1: and can packaging We cut when customers seem to demand

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Speaker 1: refunds with the slightest, dent, we asked our instagram followers

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Speaker 1: how many were willing to cut down on online shopping?

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned to the end of the podcast to find

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Speaker 1: out how many raised their hands.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the heart of the matter. It's monday november

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Speaker 1: eight and I'm Lynn Celine. Today we have two guests

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Speaker 1: who will discuss singles day, the growth of e commerce

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Speaker 1: and its environmental implications with us. The first is Lozada's

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Speaker 1: group chief business officer James Chang, who's managed operation on

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Speaker 1: corporate strategy for the group across Southeast Asia since 2012.

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Speaker 1: And our second guest is Sharon Professor and head of

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Speaker 1: the marketing division at NTU Nanyang Business School who wrote

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Speaker 1: a commentary published on CNN dot Asia and why we

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Speaker 1: feel such a rush from me at items to our

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Speaker 1: online shopping cut. Welcome both. Good afternoon James. My first

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Speaker 1: question is to you. E commerce has grown massively with

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Speaker 1: 2020 when people were stuck at home with covid restrictions

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Speaker 1: a bumper. You do expect online shopping to continue growing

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Speaker 1: at this breakneck pace and why

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Speaker 2: Absolutely! We've seen expediting adoption of e commerce but it

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Speaker 2: happened in kind of two fronts. One is from the

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Speaker 2: buyer side, many people have joined shopping digitally online and

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Speaker 2: we know that when first consumers start to make purchases

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Speaker 2: they tend to make a smaller basket size and as

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Speaker 2: they build up their trust as they go through different

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Speaker 2: areas of the e commerce and discovering new things, they

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Speaker 2: increased their categories that they shop online and they increase

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Speaker 2: the size of particular items. So from that perspective these

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Speaker 2: buyers that we've seen coming online are going to go

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Speaker 2: through a growth trajectory which will continue to propel the

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Speaker 2: growth of e commerce. Second most important, which is much

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Speaker 2: more lasting effect is

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Speaker 2: Many entrepreneurs. Brands retailers came online, we've seen that speed

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Speaker 2: about four times the size of 2019 and these brands

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Speaker 2: and centers are absolutely here to stay so with the

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Speaker 2: richest in the supply and then growing buyer base. We

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Speaker 2: do believe the growth will continue.

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Speaker 2: Karen

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Speaker 1: then we know also however, that the key reason why

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Speaker 1: growth in e commerce happen is because of flash sales

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Speaker 1: like 11, 11, 10, 10, 99 and 11 11,000 simple.

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Speaker 1: Just keep topping records every year suggesting that they seem

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Speaker 1: to be a winning strategy. Are they working according to

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Speaker 1: you and will this intense consumer interest. Peter wants bigger

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Speaker 1: groups can go out as covid restrictions live.

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Speaker 1: The sales is always the default move for Marcus under

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Speaker 1: pressure to deliver immediate revenue if you see the sales

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Speaker 1: volume keep going up. It shows that the promotions are

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Speaker 1: actually working. But over time you do see that consumers

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Speaker 1: do feel promotion fatigue and it doesn't mean doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: It just means that you need deeper promotions, You need

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Speaker 1: more compelling promotions to get consumers to continue to stay

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Speaker 1: on the platform.

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Speaker 1: But online shopping has also been caught by some as

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Speaker 1: a guilty pleasure because it's convenient. It's low cost and

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Speaker 1: brings a thrill when you score a bargain and it

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Speaker 1: reaches your home but do such indulgences coming across Sharon,

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Speaker 1: is there a price you see us paying in this search?

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Speaker 1: Online shopping definitely environmental cause of being went.

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Speaker 1: One of the biggest issue of sustainability getting the whole

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Speaker 1: society in the world to be more sustainable is to

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Speaker 1: actually reduce consumption.

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Speaker 1: But with the increasing promotions with a lot of the

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Speaker 1: deals and our hedonic consumption in general propel us to

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Speaker 1: buy things that we might not need or we might

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Speaker 1: not actually want. We just by because it's on sales

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Speaker 1: and I think as a whole, this is actually not

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Speaker 1: a very good news for us or for the world

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Speaker 1: that we live in by the same time it is

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Speaker 1: human behavior,

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Speaker 1: we buy things to make ourselves feel good.

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Speaker 1: We have been in, sustainability will come back to that.

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Speaker 1: But my other question to you James is the challenge

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Speaker 1: with online shopping. Well it's very convenient and offers so

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Speaker 1: many benefits. Sometimes it's not really so simple as a

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Speaker 1: click by live happily ever after. There's so many logistical

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Speaker 1: challenges requiring human eyes and effort when clothes don't fit

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Speaker 1: items on as they seem on the listing and people

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Speaker 1: complain about purchases, they don't arrive on time. Now these

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Speaker 1: are challenges that won't happen if these are bought directly

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Speaker 1: from a physical store. So can they be squared away

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Speaker 1: so easily without adding costs to the platform business.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. So one thing we noticed for sure is

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Speaker 2: the consumer's expectations

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Speaker 2: is continued to rise

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Speaker 2: When we started Lozada back in 2012 where E Commerce

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Speaker 2: was quite nascent. It's very different expectations than today where

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Speaker 2: you can get things even on the same day on

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Speaker 2: instant delivery.

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Speaker 2: So from a service level perspective, the quality of perspective

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Speaker 2: and also as competitions continue to evolve and continue to

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Speaker 2: upgrade the services, we do see the overall industry service

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Speaker 2: level going up. Now. One of the key thing is

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Speaker 2: we try to provide as much information as possible for us,

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Speaker 2: transparency is quite important. So for those customers who is

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Speaker 2: willing to

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Speaker 2: wait a little bit longer but be able to get

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Speaker 2: slightly more discount is able to do that. And for

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Speaker 2: those customers who wants a very fast delivery express deliveries,

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Speaker 2: one things right away or is able to offer that

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Speaker 2: as well. So having that variety of service level as

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Speaker 2: well as the transparency to the fire so that buyers

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Speaker 2: can make informed choice, we believe is the right way

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Speaker 2: to go forward.

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Speaker 1: Kind of sounds like what's happening here is that online

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Speaker 1: shopping platforms are

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Speaker 1: simply replacing big department stores like Robinson's john little and

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Speaker 1: all these other names that have shut out. So tell

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Speaker 1: me again, what special value do e commerce platforms really

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Speaker 1: offer apart from optimized site to other things from our phones.

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Speaker 2: We must understand the e commerce problems are powered by

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Speaker 2: the department stores, the retailers, the brands and the sellers

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Speaker 2: and smes those that are part of our overall retail ecosystem.

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Speaker 2: Even Robinson's for that matter, were part of our key partners,

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Speaker 2: is very unfortunate to see them close down. We still

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Speaker 2: work with other department stores such as Metro as well

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Speaker 2: as the retailers like Watson's as well as the Marks

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Speaker 2: and Spencer as well. So they're part of the very

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Speaker 2: key ecosystem.

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Speaker 2: What online does is it just gives the consumer's convenience

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Speaker 2: to be able to browse and discover products much more

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Speaker 2: beyond that they're able to do on a physical shopping

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Speaker 2: journey at the same time, be able to quite easily

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Speaker 2: compare prices and gain more information and insight about the

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Speaker 2: products at the convenience of home. This combination gives a

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Speaker 2: lot of abilities for many brands and many other retailers

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Speaker 2: as well as the whole diversity of the supply to

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Speaker 2: be able to be showcased the right consumers in coupling

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Speaker 2: with algorithms that is able to make that matchmaking

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Speaker 1: Sharon. So in recent years, we know there's a steadily

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Speaker 1: growing awareness of sustainability and how excessive consumerism can hurt

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Speaker 1: the planet. Younger consumers specifically are more conscious and they're

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Speaker 1: asking about the green credentials, the stores that they buy.

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Speaker 1: So our question to you is how serious our young

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Speaker 1: consumers to really putting their money to buy better more

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Speaker 1: sustainably

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Speaker 1: Because many would profess to support Greta thornburg and claim

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Speaker 1: to support all these businesses that protect the environment. But

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Speaker 1: the majority will still continue to follow the likes of

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Speaker 1: kylie Jenner and go on to like the post of

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Speaker 1: a new bag and shop online.

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Speaker 1: What are you seeing here

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Speaker 1: for the young consumers? That is based on us research

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Speaker 1: and based on our studies, they do have a more

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Speaker 1: elevated awareness of the environmental problem and they are more

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Speaker 1: willing to put the money where the belief is compared

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Speaker 1: to all the consumers that said, there is still the

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Speaker 1: human aspect of it

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Speaker 1: which is that although we are willing to pay a

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Speaker 1: little bit more, at the at least the younger generations

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Speaker 1: are willing to pay a little bit more for products,

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Speaker 1: agree

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Speaker 1: Well, studies show that there's a system price point where

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Speaker 1: people would still not be willing to pay way more

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Speaker 1: basically for the green products. The price point about 10%,

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Speaker 1: is probably the highest you can go beyond that. They

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Speaker 1: would still revert back to whatever price point are more

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Speaker 1: comfortable with other products they are more comfortable with.

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Speaker 1: There is a little bit of tension

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Speaker 1: between this desire to protect the environment and my personal needs,

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Speaker 1: my financial considerations and my desire to own something to

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Speaker 1: show people that I'm cool to show people that I

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Speaker 1: am fashionable and that tension is still playing out even

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Speaker 1: for the younger consumers James are you seeing any notable

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Speaker 1: trends from Lozada's users

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Speaker 1: that suggests environmental considerations around what they buy are here

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Speaker 1: to stay. And what's your advice to retailers trying to

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Speaker 1: sell on e commerce platforms like yours?

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Speaker 2: We've seen an increase in the voice of sustainability and

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Speaker 2: environmental friendliness all through a buyer, but actually stronger voice

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Speaker 2: from the supply side from the brands, especially the global

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Speaker 2: brand side

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Speaker 2: from a buyer's perspective, one of the key things that

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Speaker 2: we hear our concerns and amount of plastic that's being

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Speaker 2: used in packaging.

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Speaker 2: So for the business that we have, for example, in Singapore,

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Speaker 2: we also operate Red Mark as part of our business

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Speaker 2: and in Denmark we are aiming to reduce and also

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Speaker 2: to some point eliminate and use a single use plastics.

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Speaker 2: We already switch a lot of the paper bags inside

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Speaker 2: the performance center alone, We don't use a disposable plastic

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Speaker 2: bags

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Speaker 2: and also even the boxes that we use, we have

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Speaker 2: a S A. P

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Speaker 2: to use up to three times we collect the boxes

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Speaker 2: back as we deliver the park, so that's all the

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Speaker 2: efforts that we're doing. But on the supply side we've

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Speaker 2: seen many global brands, you know, we partner with Gloria

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Speaker 2: for example, we partner with your number to kind of

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Speaker 2: push forward in terms of both awareness as well as

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Speaker 2: the sustainable agenda to the consumers from both

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Speaker 2: sustainably sourced products, sustainably packaged products as well as you

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Speaker 2: know how to have a circular economy. So, these efforts

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Speaker 2: are ongoing. I do believe that there's more to be

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Speaker 2: done from both buyers, platforms such as ourselves as well

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Speaker 2: as the brands to be able to contribute more to it.

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Speaker 2: It is an ongoing effort and it's been increasing efforts

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Speaker 2: as

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Speaker 1: well. We know that people complain about plastic and packaging,

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Speaker 1: but

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Speaker 1: are you seeing any trend to say that they would

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Speaker 1: not make a purchase because of plastic packaging? Are you

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Speaker 1: seeing any trends that tell you this is actually a

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Speaker 1: key decision consideration? Or is that something that consumers simply

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Speaker 1: complain about?

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Speaker 2: It's hard for us to see from the data that

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Speaker 2: we have in terms of the feedback that we're seeing

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Speaker 2: from the consumers of seeing that kind of a trend

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Speaker 2: and what's the value of that.

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Speaker 2: But one thing for sure, we do know that if

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Speaker 2: we can provide more awareness,

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Speaker 2: we can provide more differentiation and give more choices to

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Speaker 2: the consumers. There will be consumers will be making that

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Speaker 2: conscious choice and that amount of consumers who making that

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Speaker 2: consciousness will only increase. What we are doing is to

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Speaker 2: provide that effort to create the awareness and give that

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Speaker 2: information to the consumer.

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Speaker 1: How are you giving them choice? So it's not like

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Speaker 1: the packaging amount is indicated when you buy an item, right?

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Speaker 2: For example, we do promote together with the brands on

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Speaker 2: sustainable packaging products. We do have equal friendly campaigns that

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Speaker 2: are predicted towards products that are more sustainable in nature.

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Speaker 2: Not only that we give special vouchers and incentive for

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Speaker 2: the customers to try out new products, especially also, for example,

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Speaker 2: locally produced goods, locally produced vegetables as well. That does help.

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Speaker 2: And also it is at a higher standard in many ways,

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Speaker 2: providing that kind of excitement of the campaign as well

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Speaker 2: as that opportunity to make that choice and also enticing

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Speaker 2: them that this is not only a great deal, but

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Speaker 2: also is a great product for the environment. These are

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Speaker 2: some of the things that we're working on to be

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Speaker 2: able to make that awareness

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Speaker 1: clara fosse bias. Also part of this packaging problem, because

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Speaker 1: there are people who want to cut down on bubble

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Speaker 1: wrap and layers of plastic. But then there are people

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Speaker 1: who also complain anyone. There are items in pristine conditions

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Speaker 1: and they dispute over the goods and when we funds

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Speaker 1: were not

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Speaker 1: they live on the exact date or there's a little

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Speaker 1: nick in the box. So help us understand to what

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Speaker 1: extent consumer expectations he to cutting down packaging consumers want

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Speaker 1: whatever product that you get to be in the perfect condition.

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Speaker 1: The salad. They also try to package it nicely so

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Speaker 1: that it appears in the well

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Speaker 1: package good condition to the consumers.

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Speaker 1: The consumers feel that they're getting their money's worth to

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Speaker 1: be able to cut. That doubt is actually quite difficult

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Speaker 1: because your products may get damaged if it doesn't look

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Speaker 1: well packaged, but consumers may not feel that they're getting

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Speaker 1: a good deal. People consume my experience, right? Exactly. So

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Speaker 1: educating consumers about the importance

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Speaker 1: of maybe looking beyond

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Speaker 1: the packaging is actually important. You think about in the

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Speaker 1: offline world when you go to a luxury brand you

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Speaker 1: by holding the plastic, the paperback is also a sign

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Speaker 1: of status and people actually take great pride in that, right.

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Speaker 1: The packaging itself means actually a lot to consumers. So

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Speaker 1: I think they'll be able to educate the consumers will

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Speaker 1: be a step one that maybe we don't need to

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Speaker 1: put so many things inside to protect as long as

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Speaker 1: the product goes to in good condition, it's good enough.

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Speaker 1: But what about the supply side? You talked about how

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Speaker 1: you're working with various companies. Loreal, Unilever, to minimize packaging,

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Speaker 1: can there be limits on packaging lay down with sellers

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Speaker 1: and even delivery care standards established with delivery from. So

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Speaker 1: you don't need these

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Speaker 1: huge amounts of packaging

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Speaker 2: going back to read mark because red mark is a

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Speaker 2: consolidated packages delivered in a reasonable plastic tote were able

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Speaker 2: to minimize a lot of the packaging that goes through.

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Speaker 2: Imagine all your groceries and coming in different pieces now

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Speaker 2: have been tremendously bad for the environment. Also very cumbersome

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Speaker 2: for the consumers as well. So some of the ways

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Speaker 2: that we do is to provide, where we can

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Speaker 2: inject ourselves into the supply chain

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Speaker 2: that we can provide that value at

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? They're injecting yourself into the supply chain.

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Speaker 2: For example, across Southeast Asia, about 80% of the parcel

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Speaker 2: is touched by our team that is delivered to the

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Speaker 2: consumers will be our fulfillment centers consultation centers and were

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Speaker 2: able to do co packing co deliveries to minimize carbon

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Speaker 2: front as well as some of the packaging race as well.

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Speaker 2: So these are kind of us injecting ourselves into the

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Speaker 2: supply chain, but more importantly, creating that awareness and showcasing

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Speaker 2: that to the consumers on making that right choice that

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Speaker 2: fits their personal desires as well as their personal interests.

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Speaker 2: I find it very important because when you talk about sustainability,

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Speaker 2: packaging or excessively sourced goods are very portion of it,

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Speaker 2: they're very diverse, different interests

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Speaker 2: by the consumers

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Speaker 2: on multiple layers. It's not just those two points, right?

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Speaker 2: So being able to provide the information and create awareness,

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Speaker 2: I find something that e commerce platforms should do and

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Speaker 2: it's good value for the both consumers as well as

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Speaker 2: the suppliers, although it's not that easy though, for example,

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Speaker 2: a member on red mark, we try to do healthy

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Speaker 2: food campaign

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Speaker 2: and the definition of what is healthy

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Speaker 2: and what is not healthy given so many different certifications

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Speaker 2: out there are so many different supplies and and supply

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Speaker 2: chain that are intermingled to be able to as a

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Speaker 2: platform to fully governed. That was very, very difficult exercise,

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Speaker 2: having more knowledge and transparency in the supply chain as

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Speaker 2: technology developed. Working also together with the regulators in terms

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Speaker 2: of making that support with more confidence

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Speaker 2: and then playing our role, which is communication outreach. We

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Speaker 2: believe it's something that will continue to push our gas

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Speaker 2: pedals on

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Speaker 1: apart from the packaging. One big source of carbon emissions

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Speaker 1: would be last mile delivery when many trucks or vans

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Speaker 1: even run on diesel. So can online platforms. When you

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Speaker 1: look at the total supply chain, realistically implement more sustainable

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Speaker 1: logistics

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Speaker 1: and what should that look like in a couple of years.

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Speaker 2: One thing for sure, Even in Lazada, across south Asia,

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Speaker 2: we're switching more and more ice vehicles into electric vehicles,

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Speaker 2: electric strikes as well. The other thing that we're doing

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Speaker 2: is here in Singapore's example, when consumers choose a time

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Speaker 2: slot for their delivery, we put green flag means there

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Speaker 2: is a

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Speaker 2: package

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Speaker 2: where there is a delivery in your convoy, in your

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Speaker 2: area already. So if you choose that, it minimizes us

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Speaker 2: to be able to go to the places multiple times

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Speaker 2: and it helps to minimize the carbon emission as well.

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Speaker 2: So those are small things that we do try to

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Speaker 2: make that improvements.

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Speaker 2: But I'm sure as the technology continues devolves, there'll be

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Speaker 2: more and more innovations that's going to dramatically impact and

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Speaker 2: improve

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Speaker 1: prepare and it sounds like there's a lot done already

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Speaker 1: on platforms and logistics should personal restrain from mindless consumerism

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Speaker 1: be the key in reining in excessive buying. You think

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Speaker 1: listening to all this, people should know that they buy

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Speaker 1: less junk and maybe quit buying 1/5 pair of socks

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Speaker 1: because of a sale. Is that the key,

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Speaker 1: that would be the ideal state. There's something research has

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Speaker 1: shown that for example, we cut down on the stroll

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Speaker 1: because we're using plastic like the environmental impact is actually

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Speaker 1: very minimal. The bigger picture is to actually reduce consumerism.

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Speaker 1: So if we can convince ourselves that we shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: defined by the materials we own and only buy what

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Speaker 1: we need. I think the impact will be much, much greater.

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Speaker 1: The path forward in general in getting the world to

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Speaker 1: be more sustainable is to reduce consumerism. But as I said,

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Speaker 1: we are human. And in our previous article, I also

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Speaker 1: said that the way the world is structured, the way

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Speaker 1: businesses and governments and economies are structured such that reducing

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Speaker 1: consumerism are not necessarily be good for the world economy

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Speaker 1: are necessarily good for companies. So this is again another

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Speaker 1: tension in a society that we have to manage and

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Speaker 1: I don't think the world has found a good way

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Speaker 1: to manage that yet, both your especially studying regimes, how

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Speaker 1: important our signature sales like 11 11 2 Lozada and

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Speaker 1: will that change in the years to come?

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Speaker 2: The total retail here in Singapore has not grown. We've

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Speaker 2: seen a pre stagnant while the online portion, overall retail

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Speaker 2: has grown quite tremendously from last year, july was only

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Speaker 2: $260 million. Usd this region was more than 360 million

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Speaker 2: years already. But the overall share of the pie still

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Speaker 2: make relatively stable. But what these events do is these

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Speaker 2: events create that excitement. These events also create that reason

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Speaker 2: for the consumers too

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Speaker 2: have their desires, things that they want to really think

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Speaker 2: about it. Be able to collect into the cars, get

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Speaker 2: the vouchers and make that decisions where they'll get the

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Speaker 2: best deal at the same time for many of the

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Speaker 2: sellers and the brands to reach those consumers that are

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Speaker 2: quite difficult to reach as well. What we try to

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Speaker 2: do is we try to keep it as fresh as

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Speaker 2: possible and as exciting as possible.

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Speaker 1: How do you know that people are buying what they need?

404
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Speaker 1: Because then a lot of the items that are on

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Speaker 1: promotion might not be what they really need. And looking

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Speaker 1: also at some of the items more sort violence data

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Speaker 1: across Southeast Asia in recent years include shore smartphones and bags.

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Speaker 1: What does a more sustainable singles day look like? If

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Speaker 1: not lower sales or fewer ads to tell people what's

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Speaker 1: on offer.

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Speaker 2: So we measure a couple of things. One that we

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Speaker 2: find it quite exciting is that for the last number

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Speaker 2: of years we've seen the return rate come down dramatically.

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Speaker 2: So that's the customers finding something that they are not

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Speaker 2: satisfied or it's not something that they wanted, but for

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Speaker 2: some reason didn't meet the standards in return that which

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Speaker 2: is very bad for both businesses, sellers brands as well

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Speaker 2: as for the environment as well. And now it's very

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Speaker 2: very low single digits. So that reduction means that we've

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Speaker 2: done a great job to provide that information that do

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Speaker 2: a good job of matchmaking,

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Speaker 2: getting the right customers to the right products.

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Speaker 2: So more as we improve our technology, that algorithm and

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Speaker 2: using the big data, the best we can do is

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Speaker 2: to provide the transparency and do the best job of

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00:20:22,420 --> 00:20:26,369
Speaker 2: matchmaking and creating that excitement where consumers able to find

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00:20:26,369 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 2: something that they desire at the affordable price and the

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Speaker 2: one that they are very happy with after their purchase

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Speaker 2: are made.

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Speaker 1: So Sharon

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Speaker 1: of course consumers try to be good and buy goods

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Speaker 1: meat from say recyclable material in

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Speaker 1: bid to become more eco friendly. Do you think some

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Speaker 1: sort of a carbon labeling could promote sustainable consumption and

435
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Speaker 1: some have suggested that we can still purchase the things

436
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Speaker 1: we're going without killing the earth. Do you think that

437
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Speaker 1: such efforts would only subtract the guilt trip and serve

438
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Speaker 1: to fuel more being

439
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Speaker 1: if you have trouble labeling people would definitely be more

440
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Speaker 1: conscious of the impact

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Speaker 1: of their purchase on the environment. So yes, you're going

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Speaker 1: to steal the behavior a little bit more towards buying

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Speaker 1: green products at least green products. So that piece I

444
00:21:08,150 --> 00:21:10,510
Speaker 1: have no doubt that we work. But as a whole,

445
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Speaker 1: you're still buying dog, right? You're still buying products now,

446
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Speaker 1: whether it's a need or is that a one is

447
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Speaker 1: very hard for us to tell.

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Speaker 1: But if you're have a common label, you feel that

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Speaker 1: you're doing

450
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Speaker 1: good for the environment because you're buying a green product

451
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Speaker 1: and therefore actually is a justifiable projects, it may actually

452
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Speaker 1: on the flip side is a greater consumption. So whether

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Speaker 1: that net off, I'm not sure, because that requires quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of scientific test to see how much carbon

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Speaker 1: footprint is going to be on each side.

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Speaker 1: My sense is probably going to actually lead to greater consumption,

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Speaker 1: which is in general,

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Speaker 1: not good for the environment, but the fact that if

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Speaker 1: you really need to buy it is better to buy

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Speaker 1: something green and buy something not green.

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Speaker 1: What's your take on what a more sustainable Singles Day

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Speaker 1: looks like? Frankly, I don't really have a very good

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Speaker 1: idea on that either because this whole idea of promotion

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Speaker 1: used to encourage people to buy at least like jane

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Speaker 1: said earlier, in terms of at least have a better

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Speaker 1: match between what the consumer wants and what the platform

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Speaker 1: is selling, hopefully reduce a little bit more of the return.

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Speaker 1: So at least you have less of the returned couple footprint,

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Speaker 1: but that said, if you have a better match, we

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Speaker 1: are more likely to buy more, I'm not sure there

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Speaker 1: is necessarily a good sustainable way forward if we really

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Speaker 1: want to encourage consumption through deals. So can online shopping

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Speaker 1: or green money depend on consumers?

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Speaker 1: Our Instagram followers think it does with 53% saying they

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Speaker 1: have plans to cut down online shopping this year and

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Speaker 1: urge others to buy only what they need

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Speaker 1: quite a few, also one businesses and producers to take

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Speaker 1: responsibility to cut down ways

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Speaker 2: to

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Speaker 1: This was part of the matter that was James, chang

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Speaker 1: Lozada's chief business officer and sharing a professor and head

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Speaker 1: of the marketing division at NTU Nanyang Business School.

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Speaker 1: Now, if you like this episode, I want to hear

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Speaker 1: others follow us on your favorite podcast

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Speaker 2: app,

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Speaker 1: you'll be able to catch up on episodes like our

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Speaker 1: one on one interview with grab Cinnabon managing director Yoo

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Speaker 1: ji tae, we put in the hot seat on giving

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Speaker 1: food delivers full time jobs and our conversation with HR

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Speaker 1: experts on why workers seem to be languishing amid a

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Speaker 1: great resignation brief until next week. I'm going to link

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Speaker 1: with

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Speaker 1: Christina robert, our podcast editor and every low our research

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Speaker 1: writer signing off