Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Men explain. And I
Speaker 1: promise you this time around, he has nothing much to
Speaker 1: explain because he looks clueless like the moment he walked in.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing men explaining. Haven't exactly gotten a very
Speaker 2: good reputation in the last five years
Speaker 1: to make it better,
Speaker 2: make it better. I'm not here to explain. Not mansplaining. Yes,
Speaker 1: exactly. That's the reason. That's the reason you're here. Please
Speaker 1: welcome
Speaker 2: Hey, what's good? What's good? What's good?
Speaker 1: Okay. I don't know what's been going on. But recently,
Speaker 1: all the shows that I've been hosting and you've been
Speaker 1: the guest on related to health related problems.
Speaker 2: It's like you guys want to tell me I'm old.
Speaker 2: But like you guys wanna hinted to me, you know,
Speaker 2: it goes like what if your eyesight gets bad after
Speaker 2: you pass 35? I'm like,
Speaker 2: does
Speaker 1: that sound like that? No, no, no.
Speaker 2: You don't
Speaker 1: usually
Speaker 2: passed 36. Your iris starts to lose power. What? And
Speaker 2: then this
Speaker 1: is on another show. Let's talk about health by the way.
Speaker 1: Catch it still on me watch. Yeah. Past
Speaker 2: The 15 adds that. You have to go through.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. But here's the thing. Here's the thing today
Speaker 1: we're talking about something very
Speaker 1: very, very difficult to talk about amongst men. It's about
Speaker 1: male menopause have
Speaker 2: What's okay? I am not very familiar
Speaker 2: with male menopause.
Speaker 1: What do you think of the bets? What do you think?
Speaker 1: Male menopause is.
Speaker 2: Listen sonia, I am obligated
Speaker 1: by
Speaker 2: the mail, by the contractual mail. By the by the
Speaker 2: male union. All
Speaker 1: right to
Speaker 2: tell you that. Men don't suffer from any health issues
Speaker 2: when it comes to
Speaker 2: anything below the waist? We're all good. We're fine. We
Speaker 2: can talk about it. It's very
Speaker 1: sensitive. This is why we need to talk about
Speaker 2: this. Is this is why. And now you're prying in
Speaker 2: like the secrets right? Of of what we go through.
Speaker 2: I am not aware that men go through menopause. I
Speaker 2: didn't think so. I always thought it was a problem
Speaker 2: that didn't affect men. You know, we never used it,
Speaker 2: you know, to our advantage when we lose our temper.
Speaker 1: Excuse you
Speaker 2: see that? You see that first of all?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, so are you saying that you've experienced this before?
Speaker 1: Like with a partner or with you know family members?
Speaker 1: I would I would like to think that
Speaker 2: I'm very far from the age that would experience this.
Speaker 2: But the only thing I can do is just guess. Right?
Speaker 2: So what I'm guessing you say is that when um
Speaker 2: when when a man experiences something at the point of
Speaker 2: his life where he is no longer um fertile.
Speaker 1: Right? I
Speaker 2: think menopause is when women are not fertile anymore. Right?
Speaker 2: That's just that's what that's what happens, right?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not a biology.
Speaker 2: Biology just stopped bleeding away.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. Okay.
Speaker 2: What happens to men when men stop. Just don't bust
Speaker 2: nuts anymore.
Speaker 1: No. Okay. So that's the thing based on this? Based
Speaker 1: on the little knowledge because we also did an episode
Speaker 1: on another, wow, can we zoom in on that one
Speaker 1: more time? This
Speaker 2: comes
Speaker 1: just nothing. No, but that's the thing, right? Because when
Speaker 1: it comes to testosterone levels,
Speaker 1: it is a very real problem with some men and
Speaker 1: we know that things like testosterone deficiency syndrome, I'm talking
Speaker 1: like an expert, but it's all the stuff that I
Speaker 1: learned from the health show.
Speaker 2: Exactly,
Speaker 1: and a lot of guys may not even notice that
Speaker 1: they're going through menopause, that they're even experiencing symptoms of
Speaker 1: male menopause.
Speaker 2: It's very difficult to talk about is keeping a straight face.
Speaker 2: So difficult,
Speaker 1: but you see the fact that so difficult, you're like
Speaker 1: masking it with laughter.
Speaker 2: Yes, wow, okay,
Speaker 1: so
Speaker 2: here's, OK, so here's the thing,
Speaker 2: I don't know at what point of a man's life
Speaker 2: where they would normally be dealing with this experience, but
Speaker 2: I would assume that is generally when you pass a
Speaker 2: certain age that I'm guessing maybe in the late thirties,
Speaker 2: there have been people who I can only speak for
Speaker 2: the community that I'm in, you know, um in the
Speaker 2: community that I'm in, which is the which is the
Speaker 2: fight community, right? People who usually are some
Speaker 2: some of them experienced low testosterone, you
Speaker 1: know?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm not sure why, I'm not sure why,
Speaker 2: I guess everybody's everybody varies when it comes to the health, respectively. Right?
Speaker 2: But the conversation of going to get your blood tested
Speaker 2: to test your test levels and to see if you
Speaker 2: can go for testosterone, like boost or replacement therapy is
Speaker 2: not an uncommon conversation amongst the people in the community really.
Speaker 2: Okay,
Speaker 1: so, so tell me more about these gym locker conversations.
Speaker 2: Okay,
Speaker 1: let
Speaker 2: me see, how do I, as I mentioned, the conversation
Speaker 2: of getting your test levels tested in the jujitsu is
Speaker 2: not something uncommon, and the reason is because I think
Speaker 2: as we reach a later stage of our physical health,
Speaker 2: we find that we, there are certain things that we
Speaker 2: do or
Speaker 2: Certain things that we want to achieve that are taking
Speaker 2: a slower time to happen as opposed to when you
Speaker 2: were younger. So when I was probably 19 or 20
Speaker 2: or maybe in my early 20s, the healing process of
Speaker 2: like a muscle sprain or a bruise even or or
Speaker 2: a pulled muscle
Speaker 1: bounce back immediately
Speaker 2: almost immediately, you know? But like I noticed that now
Speaker 2: it doesn't okay now I know which
Speaker 2: muscles I can hurt and which muscles will take a
Speaker 2: longer time to hurt. So I kind of for a
Speaker 2: very long time, I kind of understand my body really,
Speaker 2: so I understand that if, okay, so if I do
Speaker 2: this a certain workout and after like one day it's
Speaker 2: still so I know what to do to make this
Speaker 2: all go away, you know, So, but for the recovery
Speaker 2: runs and all that kind of stuff, but I wouldn't
Speaker 2: deny that the time that it takes for me to achieve,
Speaker 2: like 100% is slower than it was before? So
Speaker 2: I'm thinking actually to go get my blood tested to
Speaker 2: see
Speaker 1: my test level
Speaker 2: test levels. Yeah, I google a lot. So, and everybody,
Speaker 2: whatever
Speaker 1: your answer to everything,
Speaker 2: you know, everything you google is real. So when
Speaker 1: trustworthy.
Speaker 2: So so google tells me is one of the symptoms
Speaker 2: of low testosterone is when a man loses his sex
Speaker 2: drive
Speaker 1: and I haven't
Speaker 2: exactly been experiencing that problem.
Speaker 1: Okay,
Speaker 1: it's fine. This is an open book.
Speaker 2: Exactly. We're experiencing a problem. In fact, I've been experiencing
Speaker 2: the opposite of that problem.
Speaker 1: Okay, on that point now let's expand that point. No,
Speaker 2: but one of the, you know, okay, I hate to
Speaker 2: be talking about my hair, but one of the, one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why men lose hair is usually because
Speaker 2: they have high testosterone. This is what doctors, the doctor
Speaker 2: told me
Speaker 2: this
Speaker 1: means
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 1: shaved my choice, my choice. I never asked you. I
Speaker 1: never asked.
Speaker 2: So here we
Speaker 1: are. Again. I mean, why would I ask you that
Speaker 1: on all the interviews we've ever had. We've never brought
Speaker 1: this up.
Speaker 2: You never brought up my head
Speaker 1: actually, that was
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why I appreciated 97 because you
Speaker 2: never mentioned my,
Speaker 1: Just took five steps back,
Speaker 1: to be fair. He brought it up. He brought it
Speaker 1: out himself. I
Speaker 2: want to know one of the symptoms of having to
Speaker 2: higher testosterone is that you have hair loss? I
Speaker 1: had no clue. Did you, did you, did you hear
Speaker 1: this from a medical professionals,
Speaker 2: for doctors? So one of the things that you need
Speaker 2: to do to, to, to to regulate that is to
Speaker 2: take this pill called proficiency
Speaker 2: Propecia regulates your testosterone or maybe lowers it. But the
Speaker 2: problem is it kills your dick. So,
Speaker 1: so you
Speaker 2: want to have a full head of hair, right? And
Speaker 2: it's not
Speaker 1: working. You chose
Speaker 2: you. I chose, I chose, I chose, I chose, I
Speaker 2: chose I chose the
Speaker 1: so I
Speaker 1: so this is all going up.
Speaker 2: So, so now now that I'm here, right? I appreciate
Speaker 2: it and I've always realized that why I guess it,
Speaker 2: it answered my question as to like, okay, why when
Speaker 2: it comes to like sports, like I'm not the most athletic,
Speaker 2: but I'm also like not unathletic,
Speaker 1: you're like competitive as well and you enjoy the show.
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 2: I'm somewhere in the mid range and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: maybe this is why I'm not having problems with it
Speaker 2: because I have good test levels, right? But I'm not
Speaker 2: going to deny that as I reach an older stage
Speaker 2: of my life, I think to myself, I wonder what
Speaker 2: the test levels look like now, You
Speaker 1: know, there's a good thing that you're thinking about these
Speaker 1: things because for a lot of men, they may not
Speaker 1: even think of going to get such a test done right?
Speaker 1: You know, they may not even come to that,
Speaker 1: and also it comes in the little things to like,
Speaker 1: do you get irritated easily, you know, there's also like
Speaker 1: what is called irritable Male syndrome, as as what I
Speaker 1: heard is what I read earlier. Like you find yourself
Speaker 1: it's all news to me, Sonja, do you find yourself
Speaker 1: easily irritated, irritable, irritable? Yes, I am s
Speaker 2: there's
Speaker 1: a there is a women suffer from that, like you
Speaker 1: get irritated by men like you need it, that's not
Speaker 1: a syndrome, it's effect, it's every day you're irritated
Speaker 2: by us, like shouldn't this effect you want? Okay, so
Speaker 2: when you say male syndrome, I assume that it is
Speaker 2: something that makes the man irritated more easily.
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 1: yeah, more than usual. So frustration, anxiety, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: you're having a meltdown or something that's that's hypersensitive in
Speaker 1: that point in time,
Speaker 2: I honestly don't know if I want to relate that
Speaker 2: to the to the snowball of things that happen or
Speaker 2: to me on the everyday like in life or I
Speaker 2: want to relate that to a chemical imbalance that is
Speaker 2: happening that will relate to
Speaker 2: what you're seeing right now, which is I. M
Speaker 1: s. I.
Speaker 2: M s because if there's one thing I've learned is
Speaker 2: you can't really blame, I mean it is not wise
Speaker 2: to blame behavior on chemical imbalance, so I'll try to
Speaker 2: be like you know what, maybe some things are happening,
Speaker 2: Maybe I need to fix those things around me first before.
Speaker 2: I blame it on the medical condition.
Speaker 1: Have you ever gotten yourself in a situation where
Speaker 1: you sort of implied?
Speaker 2: Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe because you're on a,
Speaker 2: I only said it once in my life to my,
Speaker 2: to my housemate and she almost threw a rock at me.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, you're just proving my point. But
Speaker 1: yes, I know,
Speaker 2: but that was the point where actually I laughed it off,
Speaker 2: but I kind of realized that maybe I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have said that.
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 2: shouldn't have said that because she was being very, she
Speaker 2: was very irritable, you know, and I was wondering like,
Speaker 2: hey man, these are just little things why you so
Speaker 2: irritated you, You know, and she's like, what did you say?
Speaker 1: What? We could
Speaker 2: laugh it off because we are friends. But at the
Speaker 2: same time I did go back to my room and
Speaker 1: like I said
Speaker 2: that that was probably the moment
Speaker 1: where you thought
Speaker 2: that was kind of out of pocket.
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 2: back to what you were saying
Speaker 2: when it comes to irritable male syndrome. I don't exactly,
Speaker 2: I'm not exactly aware as to what that would be.
Speaker 1: So I've got some common symptoms over here. I'm going
Speaker 1: to read them out to see if you've ever felt
Speaker 1: this way any friends.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's go.
Speaker 1: Okay. Here we go. Um, easily irritable. We've already said
Speaker 1: hot flashes. Have you ever felt like a hot flash before.
Speaker 1: No good. You're good.
Speaker 1: How about reducing flushes
Speaker 2: is like how how flushes is
Speaker 1: like I've never actually experienced that. So I don't really
Speaker 1: know what
Speaker 2: you meet someone and you
Speaker 1: feel the warmth like creeping up your neck. Is it
Speaker 1: when
Speaker 2: you're embarrassed? All right.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe out of nowhere sort of
Speaker 2: hot flashes
Speaker 1: reduced energy. Do you ever not feel energetic?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but usually when I'm bored, okay, just like this
Speaker 2: is boring and then
Speaker 1: you're like, let me just know somewhere. Okay, low sex
Speaker 1: drive already talked about that. And
Speaker 1: you said you have no, no issues,
Speaker 2: no issues
Speaker 1: like a doctor. And also I think there could be
Speaker 1: a sign of like depression or anxiety and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. That could
Speaker 1: also be a sign of some imbalance or certain things changing.
Speaker 2: Just comedian syndrome.
Speaker 1: You know, when you say that like I get worried
Speaker 1: too because you know,
Speaker 2: the job of a comedian is to over is to,
Speaker 2: is to analyze something objectively and find the
Speaker 2: ridiculousness in in the same topic or the thing that
Speaker 2: they're observing. So it's hard for us to pretend sometimes.
Speaker 2: So because of that may be, it may lead to
Speaker 2: like certain levels
Speaker 1: of depression, but
Speaker 2: it's not things that I haven't managed. Like, I mean
Speaker 2: I still go to therapy and stuff. So so you know,
Speaker 2: and and, and and and therapy really helps, right, But
Speaker 2: I've never exactly been in a point in my life
Speaker 2: where I thought to myself, I need to
Speaker 2: I need to take something because I have a chemical imbalance,
Speaker 2: you know, but but I have been considering the test
Speaker 2: test testosterone test because I realized that if you boost
Speaker 2: your test, you know, you could get some dope muscles.
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking
Speaker 2: it's on some Captain America, you know, like
Speaker 1: you're gonna lose your beard after
Speaker 2: that.
Speaker 1: No, don't quote me on
Speaker 2: that. Will I lose my beard? I got to ask
Speaker 2: the doctor,
Speaker 1: but real talk real talk. So you know, you you
Speaker 1: talk about this and we talked about depression and how
Speaker 1: it links to irritable male syndrome and all that. And
Speaker 1: I think sometimes because we see you
Speaker 1: persona, you know, you're always so happy go like you're
Speaker 1: making people laugh all the time. That must take a
Speaker 1: lot of energy out of you as well. Could it
Speaker 1: does it does it affect you in that sense? Do
Speaker 1: you think that sometimes you use it as a defense
Speaker 1: mechanism in real life? I think
Speaker 2: it's it's so like muscle memory at this point on
Speaker 2: one end,
Speaker 2: I would love for people to understand what's going on
Speaker 2: in my head. But on the other hand, I feel
Speaker 2: a certain responsibility to make sure that they are entertained
Speaker 2: while they're listening to it. I don't believe in just
Speaker 2: protecting your brain from any kind of conflict
Speaker 2: To me that is like then you are really softening
Speaker 2: your your your character, you know, because if you protect
Speaker 2: your brain for everything and any single conflict that happens
Speaker 2: to you only you crumble into this spiral, then you're
Speaker 2: not allowing your brain to build any kind of resilience
Speaker 2: which is very harmful to you in the long run.
Speaker 2: So certain things I guess when when when when I
Speaker 2: grow I try to like
Speaker 2: die, die like you know when they say it's very
Speaker 2: toxic for men to always tell other men to suck
Speaker 2: it up. But at some level we kind of have
Speaker 2: to suck it up because the reality of the world
Speaker 2: is the things cannot go if we don't suck it
Speaker 2: up to some level. You
Speaker 1: know to some
Speaker 2: level of course when it becomes harmful to us, then
Speaker 2: men should really sit down and talk about it, you
Speaker 2: know and cry in no view of other women, you
Speaker 2: know like
Speaker 1: just you know, your five closest
Speaker 2: five closest friends cry while you are the friends. You're
Speaker 2: so soft bro. It's not a very broad thing to
Speaker 2: do man, let's eat nails. That's
Speaker 1: exactly a typical conversation
Speaker 2: and watch some football Brochu. But
Speaker 2: but behind all that behind all that I I find
Speaker 2: that that I think there is a certain level of
Speaker 2: mere responsibility for us to understand our position
Speaker 2: ah and find a balance between resilience and being open
Speaker 2: with your feelings. So going back to what you're saying,
Speaker 2: which is irritable male syndrome or or things things things
Speaker 2: that have to do with, with things that have to
Speaker 2: do with, like the male health, mentally and physically. It's
Speaker 1: difficult to talk about with other guys sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yes, I do feel I sometimes will then like, we'll
Speaker 2: try and find a connection
Speaker 2: as to why let's see if I'm feeling depressed or
Speaker 2: in fact, if I'm feeling insecure about about myself, I
Speaker 2: feel like, okay, maybe I feel like I'm a little
Speaker 2: too old. I feel like I'm fat or I feel
Speaker 2: like I'm not, I don't look good and I'll be like, alright,
Speaker 2: what can I do to change these things? If I'm fat,
Speaker 2: then I think, okay, am I too fat? Right? Okay.
Speaker 2: I'm not too fat. I still can do it. So
Speaker 2: maybe I'll try and incorporate an active lifestyle. Okay, let
Speaker 2: me
Speaker 2: maybe we'll just not eat like a bastard. You know,
Speaker 2: maybe
Speaker 1: we'll
Speaker 2: just eat like a regular person
Speaker 1: for
Speaker 2: a change and not take spoon scoops of nutella and
Speaker 2: jam it in our throats. Like
Speaker 1: this is a personal story. I feel this is from
Speaker 1: some personal experience. Look at
Speaker 2: myself, jerry, spoon scoops of nutella in my face sometimes
Speaker 1: and
Speaker 2: I just feel shame in my heart, that nutella in
Speaker 2: my hand.
Speaker 2: You
Speaker 1: see you see many chocolate many women are similar than
Speaker 1: in many ways. You know, we always talk about this
Speaker 1: entire show, right? We talked about how many women can
Speaker 1: be so different, but here's where we have officially bridged
Speaker 1: the gap. Like you have just on behalf of your
Speaker 1: bros that you admitted to us that they were not
Speaker 1: that much different after all because for us girls were
Speaker 1: very open about these things. Like you know,
Speaker 1: if I'm, if I'm upset or I feel depressed or
Speaker 1: if I'm feeling down about it or I feel I
Speaker 1: feel fat or I feel ugly whatever. We voice it
Speaker 1: out super easily to our girlfriends and we can sit
Speaker 1: down and talk about it all day and we'll sit
Speaker 1: there and reassure you how beautiful you are all day.
Speaker 1: Do you guys do that for each other?
Speaker 2: My surrounding takes the opposite approach. So I am the man,
Speaker 2: they're gonna so love this when you watch this. I
Speaker 2: am the,
Speaker 1: you be the
Speaker 2: heaviest of the group, right? And they want to say
Speaker 2: fat shape. They do, they fat shame but they fat
Speaker 2: shame with love. It's not fat shame that will leave
Speaker 2: me walking out of there feeling like ship, especially in
Speaker 2: that will leave me like, oh man, these guys are
Speaker 2: you know, they're, they're my friends, they're my real friends
Speaker 2: are such, there's such bastards. That's what they report me
Speaker 2: all the time. So and the thing is because it's
Speaker 2: always done with you
Speaker 2: Yeah, that it makes me aware of the situation, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm getting a little heavy. I can, I can sense that,
Speaker 2: you know, like for example, like if you're doing it doesn't,
Speaker 2: it has a lot of body pressure involved and then
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm like, oh man, I could really feel the
Speaker 2: pressure man, like stuff like that, you know, it's better
Speaker 2: or do you just get bigger? You know, that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff, you know? Yeah, and and and it's but
Speaker 2: it's things that
Speaker 2: I guess in a way we keep each other in check.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't really call it shaming, even though we do
Speaker 2: call it shaming among ourselves. But it's something that we
Speaker 2: we understand, I guess to a point where like we
Speaker 2: don't want to allow our friends to like cross that
Speaker 2: line where it's like there's no turning back, you know,
Speaker 2: because it takes a lot of effort to get to
Speaker 2: a point where you can turn back. So we're kind
Speaker 2: of like looking out for a friend, like you know,
Speaker 2: Like if you still want to do this spot is
Speaker 2: gonna like, you know, if you want to fight at
Speaker 2: 76 and 85, it's gonna be very hard for you
Speaker 2: to cut back to 76. So maybe just stay within
Speaker 2: the 78 range. You know that stuff
Speaker 1: like that? That conversation
Speaker 2: conversation maybe just stay within the 78 80 range so
Speaker 2: that if you cut you only have to cut five kg,
Speaker 2: some stuff like that. So
Speaker 2: I started telling myself that, okay, you know what you
Speaker 2: live an active lifestyle, you know, you you do jujitsu
Speaker 2: and then, you know, I do stand up, you know,
Speaker 2: and a lot of the times that I have quite
Speaker 2: a healthy social life. So most of the time I
Speaker 2: don't think that if I'm doing all these things right
Speaker 2: then I shouldn't really be insecure about the outcome that
Speaker 2: it provides because
Speaker 2: you know, for you to achieve like the six pack
Speaker 2: washboard at body. Listen, it's too
Speaker 1: much,
Speaker 2: it's listen, like I wanted to but to maintain that
Speaker 2: is so
Speaker 1: kind of
Speaker 2: life that you have to live to maintain that it's
Speaker 2: just not aligned with what keeps me happy.
Speaker 1: This is the thing about men, right? Like a lot
Speaker 1: of the time an image or a wall is put
Speaker 1: up
Speaker 1: for a lot of people and I'm not saying all
Speaker 1: because I know of some like very you know, men
Speaker 1: who are very in touch with their feelings, so don't
Speaker 1: mind sharing, who don't mind admitting like oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: did this or spiraled or like that, or I feel fat,
Speaker 1: you know that kind of very open conversations but amongst
Speaker 1: men sometimes it's tough to talk about these things. Do
Speaker 1: you think it's embarrassing if you and your guy friends
Speaker 1: ever raised the topic of like how your testosterone levels?
Speaker 1: You
Speaker 2: see the
Speaker 2: the issue here is I want to call it issue
Speaker 2: but the predicament here is that we're always were seen
Speaker 2: as we are only seen as the strongest and we
Speaker 2: are only seen as the most
Speaker 2: men when we are able to displace strength and we
Speaker 2: are able to provide. So any kind of weakness, whether
Speaker 2: it be emotional or physical will then indicate that there
Speaker 2: could be a possibility where we could not provide as
Speaker 2: much as we could before. Or we will become less
Speaker 2: of a provider and the lesser and lesser A man
Speaker 2: is able to provide the less leverage he has on
Speaker 2: the people around him. You know, like sad truth, la
Speaker 2: like if
Speaker 2: if a grandfather is poor and his old, most of
Speaker 2: the time he is ignored, you know, he's not taken
Speaker 2: care of, but if it's a rich grandfather that has inheritance,
Speaker 2: everybody wants everybody suddenly care, want to take care of him, right?
Speaker 2: If he had not built that for himself to have
Speaker 2: leverage over his kids and his grandkids, would they have
Speaker 2: shown him the same amount of love that if he
Speaker 2: was a poor grandfather,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a that's a big question. I think
Speaker 1: there are two ways of seeing it.
Speaker 1: I mean, that I don't disagree with you. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have also seen and witnessed such situations, such family
Speaker 1: situation before. But also I like to believe there's a
Speaker 1: portion of people out there with a good head on
Speaker 1: their shoulders and that's
Speaker 2: always that's always what we prefer to understand that I
Speaker 2: would like to
Speaker 1: know that there are people out there, I
Speaker 2: think maybe because you were related to the things that
Speaker 2: you see around you and the people you see around
Speaker 2: you and what I personally have observed is that okay
Speaker 2: once a man is unable to provide
Speaker 2: ah he slowly but surely loses his position among the
Speaker 2: people around him.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you mentioned that like on that note
Speaker 1: because my friends and I were having this chat as
Speaker 1: well because you know our families, our moms or dads,
Speaker 1: our grandparents, you know, most of our grandparents may not
Speaker 1: even be around anymore, but our direct parents for example
Speaker 1: and aunts, uncles, they're getting older to a point where
Speaker 1: maybe retired already, they're not working anymore.
Speaker 1: And one common factor that I found amongst my friends
Speaker 1: and I will be saying that our dads right? Some
Speaker 1: of their debts to are experiencing anxiety and depression because
Speaker 1: they feel like useless, you know what I mean? Which
Speaker 1: also relates to this because I feel like it isn't
Speaker 1: just about the age, it's also about feeling irrelevant or
Speaker 1: feeling I cannot provide for my family
Speaker 2: anymore. That
Speaker 1: causes
Speaker 1: them to spiral into depressive feelings and could also lead
Speaker 1: to a lot of problems
Speaker 2: For 20 plus years. You were the man of the house,
Speaker 2: you were the source of income. You are the source
Speaker 2: of strength and you you are the protector, you know
Speaker 2: of this establishment that is called a family and then
Speaker 2: your kids grow up and then now they can do
Speaker 2: it for themselves and then then but then you don't
Speaker 2: have any upper hand because you've raised them to be
Speaker 2: better than you. So once they have become better than you,
Speaker 2: you don't feel like you are of any use anymore.
Speaker 2: And that is very common experience among older men and
Speaker 2: that will contribute to I guess the menopause or depression
Speaker 2: or the low testosterone and that will contribute to that.
Speaker 1: And the thing is, you know, based on some research,
Speaker 1: it is not as uncommon
Speaker 1: you think, and a lot of people go untreated because
Speaker 1: they don't even realize that this is connected could be
Speaker 1: connected to male menopause as we call it actually called. Andropause,
Speaker 1: but they may not even realize that right, which really
Speaker 1: gets me feeling quite emotional sometimes because I look at
Speaker 1: my own, you know,
Speaker 2: family members, my
Speaker 1: own uncles and it's like,
Speaker 1: well it's a very real thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's something that that that men experience that
Speaker 2: meant that the experience which is honestly, I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's in in in an asian and environment that
Speaker 2: you don't really talk about your feelings that much. You know,
Speaker 2: it's very difficult and so complex, you know, for for
Speaker 2: somebody to even begin to tell you why they are
Speaker 2: feeling that
Speaker 2: away at that point of their life. And it's very
Speaker 2: embarrassing also for for a man because like for us
Speaker 2: to be men, we have to be strong, we have
Speaker 2: to be, you know, we have to be complete, you know,
Speaker 2: and that indicates that we are less than complete and
Speaker 2: but how much lesser by a lot actually. And it's
Speaker 2: very embarrassing for us to expose that also, sometimes
Speaker 1: I know right? Like you mentioned that you go to
Speaker 1: a therapist. So a lot of men
Speaker 1: and and you know, even my own girlfriends and their
Speaker 1: their their partners, you know, sometimes they're resistant to the
Speaker 1: idea of going for therapy. I know it's still something
Speaker 1: that is slowly normalizing, opening up more people are going
Speaker 1: what pushed you to go for your first therapy session?
Speaker 2: I think I'm just trying to be responsible to the
Speaker 2: people around me. You know, like if I am feeling
Speaker 2: a certain way and if I am exhibiting certain kinds
Speaker 2: of behavior, I feel like
Speaker 2: ah of course I will understand that none of you
Speaker 2: would be equipped to handle it because you you can't,
Speaker 2: I can't expect you to sit down and pride through
Speaker 2: from start to finish what's going on, right? Um, fortunately
Speaker 2: for me, I I have the means, you know, and
Speaker 2: therapy is very expensive in Singapore for you to get
Speaker 2: a good therapist is very expensive. But I have,
Speaker 2: I have the means that I have the friend who
Speaker 2: opened up a company and he said, oh we're making
Speaker 2: it a little bit more affordable for people, right? And
Speaker 2: so when I went, not today, I've been to therapy before,
Speaker 2: but fortunately for me as a comedian, we are able
Speaker 2: to take things and dissect things objectively, right? So I
Speaker 2: was like I'm going to get my hours with, I'm
Speaker 2: going to do the dissecting by myself,
Speaker 2: really figure out the source and just come to you
Speaker 2: like this is the problem,
Speaker 1: how to fix their response. What was that?
Speaker 2: Like they
Speaker 1: cool story, but let me do it from not really,
Speaker 2: they were actually quite impressed that that I take away some,
Speaker 2: it's one thing, but also the ego that's evolved in
Speaker 2: you not wanting to see the real problem, you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes you there's that self denial in you that doesn't
Speaker 1: know is that,
Speaker 2: but you don't really want to see it. So so okay,
Speaker 2: so the reason why I went is because I wanted
Speaker 2: to be responsible to the people around me, I'm like
Speaker 2: I know the kind of why I'm bringing you know,
Speaker 2: and I know the kind of priorities that I'm putting
Speaker 2: and I am aware of how I'm making your feel,
Speaker 2: so I don't know how to fix it, I don't
Speaker 2: know why it's like that, but let me go and
Speaker 2: find out and I'll come back to you, so that's
Speaker 2: just me being responsible and me to be honest, low
Speaker 2: key expecting that from people who are like that around me,
Speaker 2: So if you're like that and I can't fix you
Speaker 2: and I expect you to like, okay, find that help
Speaker 2: for yourself so that we can we can be together
Speaker 2: again and communicate again, you know,
Speaker 1: not everyone is at that level of understanding though, I
Speaker 1: feel
Speaker 2: yeah, for a lot of
Speaker 2: it starts off with one thing the approval of the
Speaker 2: people around you, wanting the approval of like the audience,
Speaker 2: I wanted people to like you, so I think it
Speaker 2: started from, oh man, if I want people to keep
Speaker 2: liking me, I gotta find out what's wrong with myself,
Speaker 2: but then I soon realized that that's not a good
Speaker 2: motivation because you can't really control whether people like it
Speaker 2: or not, you kind of have to control whether you
Speaker 2: like yourself or not. So I started working on that instead.
Speaker 1: That's great advice coming from you because I've always thought
Speaker 1: about this, like,
Speaker 1: you know, we go to your shows and any sort
Speaker 1: of entertainment to unwind, to relax, to laugh, but who
Speaker 1: do you turn to,
Speaker 2: basically, I think for me, I'm a person that enjoys
Speaker 2: a social setting, I enjoy socializing, I enjoy laughing with friends,
Speaker 2: you know, and
Speaker 1: you turn to them in times of
Speaker 1: you're close to a lot of comedians out there as well,
Speaker 1: but do you guys talk about this kind of personal stuff,
Speaker 1: like if you're not, you know, you're curious about like,
Speaker 1: oh I'm not feeling too good bro, like
Speaker 2: we do, we do, we do, I think when when,
Speaker 2: when I was, when I experienced a lot of losing
Speaker 2: my life, a lot of comedians will come through and
Speaker 2: and they will, they will see and they will listen
Speaker 2: um a lot of times we, we give each other space,
Speaker 2: you know, to express ourselves, some of them are still
Speaker 2: not comfortable doing it I guess, but everybody varies that personally.
Speaker 2: I don't find any weakness anymore at this point I
Speaker 2: don't find any weakness in exposing your vulnerable side
Speaker 2: because to me is if I expose my vulnerable side
Speaker 2: to you, then there is no way that you can
Speaker 2: hurt me already because I have then used it as
Speaker 2: my strength, you know, I have used what I am
Speaker 2: insecure about or what I am worried that you will
Speaker 2: find out about and I've used it to my strength,
Speaker 2: I have shown you what could hurt me and if
Speaker 2: you still hurt me,
Speaker 2: it's fine because I've already said it already said it,
Speaker 2: so that's what a lot of the culture that we
Speaker 2: try and build, like, you know, if we could make
Speaker 2: fun of the things that hurt us, then at least
Speaker 2: it's within a safe space where we know we won't
Speaker 2: hurt each other too bad. So when we go
Speaker 2: go out and people ask, you know, we're ready and
Speaker 2: equipped for that, that is some kind of mental resilience building,
Speaker 2: but it's it's natural, it doesn't happen like because we
Speaker 2: want to be strong, it just happens because it just happens,
Speaker 2: but
Speaker 1: it's nice to know that you guys have the support
Speaker 1: system and you do it because I think from the
Speaker 1: outside looking in people are always wondering,
Speaker 1: wow, like you know, in the entertainment industry or like
Speaker 1: even comedians specifically, you guys never have a bad day,
Speaker 1: you know, people always think always of course,
Speaker 2: but that's
Speaker 1: the thing that people don't see about the entertainment industry,
Speaker 1: not even about you know, stand up, even in my
Speaker 1: line of work as well, I mean the amount of
Speaker 1: times joking and I have come into the studio and
Speaker 1: we had like the shittiest day ever or like you
Speaker 1: know either one of us got relationship problems just broke up,
Speaker 1: somebody did something, you know
Speaker 2: like you got to put on a
Speaker 2: you still have, you still have to
Speaker 1: go, you
Speaker 2: still have to play Miley Cyrus, you still have to
Speaker 1: Exactly,
Speaker 2: Black Eyed Peas is the one, I don't
Speaker 1: know what, so that's that's the thing, right? People just
Speaker 1: have this impression.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's important for for for for us
Speaker 2: to even and this is one thing that I've realized
Speaker 2: that it's also very important if you want to maintain
Speaker 2: an environment
Speaker 2: that is healthy and that is that is healthy for
Speaker 2: you and it's interesting for you, if nobody is texting you,
Speaker 2: if nobody is showing you love then maybe it's your
Speaker 2: turn to show them, you know, maybe it's because receiving
Speaker 2: a message for someone just saying hi, how are you?
Speaker 2: What's up? Want to go out, it feels nice, right?
Speaker 2: If nothing is coming this way, then maybe you need
Speaker 2: to put the energy out, put the energy out because
Speaker 2: the outcome of it is something that you want. If
Speaker 2: you ask somebody out, somebody didn't ask you out. But
Speaker 2: because of ego, you don't want to ask the person out.
Speaker 2: But
Speaker 2: you think to yourself like, you know what, like I
Speaker 2: want to go out, you know, I wanted. So then
Speaker 2: you send out messages
Speaker 1: energy that you want to receive
Speaker 2: Eventually the five friends that you message or the 10
Speaker 2: friends
Speaker 1: that I mean, you know, this
Speaker 2: one will come through, right? Like this guy, but
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, this
Speaker 2: guy, this
Speaker 1: guy was hoping this will
Speaker 2: be the last choice, but
Speaker 1: then
Speaker 2: eventually you will have something to do. So I always
Speaker 2: believe that last time I used to wear
Speaker 2: and at the end of the day I'll be like,
Speaker 2: nobody's calling me, but then again, I'm not calling anybody.
Speaker 2: So how am I different from them? You know,
Speaker 1: Honestly, this is, this blows my mind because I've never
Speaker 1: actually sat down with you for a conversation like this before.
Speaker 1: I never knew this side of you and I don't
Speaker 1: want to of course attributed to, I mean where your
Speaker 1: millennial were both in the millennial stage, right? I feel
Speaker 1: like for millennials and gen z, they might be a
Speaker 1: little bit more open to talking about feelings and stuff.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a generational problem
Speaker 1: and we're trying to slowly break away from that? Is
Speaker 1: that where you feel that
Speaker 2: way? You know, my dad doesn't necessarily talk about his
Speaker 2: feelings that much. I don't think he was raised in
Speaker 2: that environment.
Speaker 1: Exactly right.
Speaker 2: However, my mom has always promoted that among us, although
Speaker 2: she may not necessarily understand the complexities that that, that
Speaker 2: she's hearing because
Speaker 2: all her kids are in show biz so she doesn't necessarily,
Speaker 2: she tries to understand but I don't think she can
Speaker 2: fully grasp what's going on. Um as far as generation
Speaker 2: gap is concerned, like
Speaker 2: among some friends, I do see that that okay, it's
Speaker 2: hard for you to talk to your friends about feelings
Speaker 2: and stuff. But
Speaker 1: I am very, very
Speaker 2: pleasantly surprised by the number of people, especially in places
Speaker 2: that I wouldn't think exist. You know, like the fight
Speaker 2: world and they're very open with how things how things
Speaker 2: make them feel. But they always discuss it objectively. Not
Speaker 2: in a way like, like to me
Speaker 2: it's like you can talk about your feelings but I
Speaker 2: will never burden you with the what do I do?
Speaker 2: I always tell you like, okay, I am looking for
Speaker 2: a solution. You know, if I don't have a solution
Speaker 2: then I would ask if you could suggest anything, it
Speaker 2: will never be a dead end at the end of
Speaker 2: that conversation. That's what I'm saying and that's where I
Speaker 2: feel the burden comes? You know when somebody throws you
Speaker 2: like look at me and my problems and what do
Speaker 2: you want me to
Speaker 2: whatever you said all this to me when your life
Speaker 2: is sad and then the next day your life is
Speaker 2: sad again then the day after. And then slowly if
Speaker 2: you hear this person
Speaker 1: complaining and
Speaker 2: complaining and complaining, you will slowly distance yourself away from
Speaker 2: that and people will start distancing themselves because he's not here,
Speaker 2: she's not looking for a solution
Speaker 1: and they end up alone. And then when they end
Speaker 1: up
Speaker 2: alone, they spiral and they wonder like, oh I guess
Speaker 2: my life is sad. But the one thing that they
Speaker 2: fail to see is that
Speaker 2: people just need to see that you're trying to get
Speaker 2: yourself out and you have to verbalize that so that
Speaker 2: people know and being capable of verbalizing your feelings is
Speaker 2: one of the things that I think everybody should learn.
Speaker 2: You you don't have to use big words. You know,
Speaker 2: you can you can use the language that you understand,
Speaker 2: but it's always very important to sit with yourself and
Speaker 2: if you're not feeling good,
Speaker 2: you're saying like why what is it? And then and
Speaker 2: and be honest with the person that you think would
Speaker 2: not and that you know will not judge you based
Speaker 2: on how you feel right
Speaker 1: Now. I agree with you and I'm glad to hear
Speaker 1: that you know, in your various friend groups including the
Speaker 1: fight world, they are so open to chatting about these
Speaker 1: things because according to some interesting numbers that
Speaker 2: survey survey
Speaker 1: survey,
Speaker 1: 60% of men only see a professional when symptoms become unbearable.
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 1: until oh, I really can't deal with it
Speaker 2: anymore. Are we still talking about menopause?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be anything. Honestly. It could be anything. 20%
Speaker 1: of men confessed that they only see a professional after
Speaker 1: their partners nag at
Speaker 2: them. That severe.
Speaker 1: Okay. Most men think or maybe this isn't my business.
Speaker 1: So I really don't have anything I want to say.
Speaker 1: But results differ from different generations. So the boomers prefer
Speaker 1: not to talk about health issues
Speaker 2: because they're going to die, but
Speaker 1: joe. But the gen X and millennials say that they
Speaker 1: have at least one friend that they can speak with
Speaker 1: regarding intimate health related issues, which is what you brought up.
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of experts and doctors out there,
Speaker 1: even though this is not primarily a health show,
Speaker 1: clearly we're just as clueless as the other. But a
Speaker 1: lot of professionals out there trying to educate men about
Speaker 1: taking care of their health better, especially their intimate life.
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to talk about sometimes.
Speaker 2: I think about like the like boomers right? Like parents
Speaker 2: sometimes I think about like think about them and when
Speaker 2: it comes to them and feelings they have spent so
Speaker 2: long of their lives getting through life without having to
Speaker 2: address their feelings Therefore,
Speaker 2: for them to do that at this point of their lives.
Speaker 2: It's too it's too late. It's too it's too much
Speaker 2: muscle memory and it's too much carelessness that has formed
Speaker 2: for them to even try and break the habit.
Speaker 1: So that's the thing. So when it comes to the
Speaker 1: older generation, it isn't even about men or women, whatever
Speaker 1: could be either I've got some relatives who, you know,
Speaker 1: they like chronic pain everywhere. It could be like that
Speaker 1: pain like this pain my feet, they cannot walk properly.
Speaker 1: Like climb stairs anymore.
Speaker 1: They will also have you gone for a checkup? No need,
Speaker 2: no.
Speaker 1: They're like, no, I want to find out. It's okay.
Speaker 1: So it's the mentality like maybe they're already pushing 70
Speaker 1: or 70 plus. They're like, you know what? Forget it.
Speaker 1: I just want to know anymore. I'm just gonna live
Speaker 1: the rest of my life in pain because
Speaker 2: once you find out
Speaker 2: and then your brain starts to think, you
Speaker 1: deteriorate. So that could be the reason why they don't
Speaker 1: want to share too
Speaker 2: much. You
Speaker 1: know, it's not just a pride thing, right? You know,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that we saw this different side of
Speaker 1: you here today fuzz, it's been great. It's been great
Speaker 1: and
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know what to expect coming into
Speaker 1: this podcast, we've done a good amount of stuff together.
Speaker 1: I've interviewed you many times, always about different things. You know,
Speaker 2: you're very hype. You know, usually in a setting like
Speaker 1: this is just got a new show, Tell us about
Speaker 1: yourself first internet, you know with a fake plant behind
Speaker 1: the rug. My shelf behind here. That's very intellectual. So
Speaker 1: what some what are some tips you want to share
Speaker 1: with your bros out there? You see,
Speaker 1: you seem to have grasped the concept pretty well of
Speaker 1: you know, not just understanding yourself, but also the dynamic
Speaker 1: amongst your your other guy friends as well. Anything you
Speaker 1: want to share with with our dudes out there,
Speaker 2: I think what's most important for a lot of men
Speaker 2: to understand is that we have to see what is
Speaker 2: the main objective whenever we're feeling uneasy or we're feeling
Speaker 2: disturbed by something negative. So for example, if you are
Speaker 2: feeling
Speaker 2: jealous, it's because let's say if you're feeling jealous when
Speaker 2: your when your partner is talking to someone else, um
Speaker 2: the jealousy doesn't just stem from her talking to someone else.
Speaker 2: It also stems from the insecurity that you are feeling
Speaker 2: towards yourself and you are, it stems from the fear
Speaker 2: of you losing her to someone better than you because
Speaker 2: you don't feel like you're good enough. It stems from
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 2: fearing that everything that you've built with this partner, it
Speaker 2: will be ruined based. You know, just just this is
Speaker 2: just one example, right? Because of a temptation. So when
Speaker 2: you create that narrative in your head, it brings you
Speaker 2: to a worse place than if you actually went up
Speaker 2: to her and was honest with your feelings and it's
Speaker 2: very important that you communicate and tell them that this
Speaker 2: is not an attack when you do this, this is
Speaker 2: how I feel,
Speaker 2: you know, and I guess it's still a two way
Speaker 2: thing where where they will be like, would you like
Speaker 2: me to reassure you that this wouldn't happen and and
Speaker 2: then that you opened up the possibility for her to
Speaker 2: do that, you know, just by speaking to her or
Speaker 2: just by addressing your feelings and take that concept
Speaker 2: and apply it to the many things that you could
Speaker 2: do in your life. That's just one concert which is
Speaker 2: relationships when you were talking about work, you know, you
Speaker 2: can always be honest with the people at work, even
Speaker 2: if the honesty means that it makes you look like
Speaker 2: you are you it makes you look vulnerable sometimes. That
Speaker 2: is that sometimes that move can can propel you forward
Speaker 2: because now you are in a more comfortable space to
Speaker 2: move If you if I'm making sense.
Speaker 1: Talking about relationship issues or emotional related stuff, it's for
Speaker 1: men also like when it comes to the health issues
Speaker 1: and the mental health issues as well, you know, most
Speaker 1: physical and mental, it can be very challenging to bring
Speaker 1: up and I think you brought up some very good
Speaker 1: points as well being open and honest, it never hurts,
Speaker 1: it never
Speaker 2: hurts. In fact, I mean the cliches will set you free.
Speaker 2: You know, it really does a lot of times because
Speaker 2: at the end of the day we,
Speaker 2: the the ego doesn't really pay, it doesn't, you know,
Speaker 2: the returns you get from keeping your ego is, it's
Speaker 2: not really worth it. It's not really worth anything.
Speaker 1: And these health issues, you know, both mental and physical
Speaker 1: could happen to anyone at any age, You know, and we,
Speaker 1: I personally know a guy that's even younger than me
Speaker 1: who's have, who's suffering from certain issues
Speaker 1: and he did not want to open up about it
Speaker 1: for three years, three years he suffered and did not
Speaker 1: speak to anyone until he found a trusted friend to
Speaker 1: talk to. So you're absolutely
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. Physical. Like I started bawling at 25 and
Speaker 2: 40 year old. How old are you again? Yeah
Speaker 1: just like I did this by
Speaker 2: choice. But then when I found out the reason I'm like, man, listen,
Speaker 1: that's my
Speaker 2: reason. I tell you what, I'm losing this hand.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you what, I'm
Speaker 1: happy to tell you
Speaker 2: first.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us here today. And
Speaker 1: if you're tuning in right now, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of men explain. If you
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, please hit the follow button were available on
Speaker 1: Spotify and Apple podcasts.
Speaker 2: Yes. And I forget to follow its clarity dot co
Speaker 2: on instagram and Tiktok where we show you all these Tiktok.
Speaker 2: We don't follow us anyway. Who knows? Could be your
Speaker 2: lucky day.
Speaker 1: See you next episode. Bye!