1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,250 Speaker 2: Hello, everyone. Christina here today. It's just me chatting with 3 00:00:07,260 --> 00:00:09,439 Speaker 2: a guest who is dialing in. If you hear a 4 00:00:09,449 --> 00:00:11,739 Speaker 2: lot of the ambient noise, it's because she's dialing in 5 00:00:11,750 --> 00:00:13,289 Speaker 2: for a hotel in Singapore. 6 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,899 Speaker 2: She's American but in Singapore for somewhat of a whirlwind trip. 7 00:00:17,909 --> 00:00:24,389 Speaker 2: I'm talking with Linda Rottenberg, the co-founder and CEO of Endeavor. 8 00:00:24,479 --> 00:00:28,799 Speaker 2: It's an organization that invests in fast growing businesses. I 9 00:00:28,809 --> 00:00:32,380 Speaker 2: also like the title of her book. Crazy is a compliment. 10 00:00:32,650 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 2: Linda is in town for a speaking engagement at Yale 11 00:00:35,970 --> 00:00:40,180 Speaker 2: and us as part of their presidents speaker series 12 00:00:40,525 --> 00:00:43,665 Speaker 2: come to Singapore and to work it. Linda, thanks for 13 00:00:43,674 --> 00:00:47,805 Speaker 2: taking the time despite all the technical hiccups. Yeah, apologies 14 00:00:47,814 --> 00:00:54,525 Speaker 2: for this. Yes. Hotel music company, our conversation as if 15 00:00:54,534 --> 00:00:57,865 Speaker 2: I'm having tea with you. So it will be it work. 16 00:00:58,115 --> 00:01:01,154 Speaker 2: We have to be agile here and wonderful to be 17 00:01:01,165 --> 00:01:04,595 Speaker 2: back in Singapore. I hope you don't mind me saying this. 18 00:01:04,605 --> 00:01:07,264 Speaker 2: But when I go through your resume, your work history 19 00:01:07,550 --> 00:01:10,750 Speaker 2: and my immediate reaction is that, oh my God, this 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,330 Speaker 2: is such a high bar. You know, it sounds like 21 00:01:14,339 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: you are one extremely Busy woman. So 22 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,940 Speaker 2: tell me a little bit about yourself. Well, you alluded 23 00:01:22,949 --> 00:01:26,059 Speaker 2: to my book, which is titled Crazy is a compliment. 24 00:01:26,069 --> 00:01:29,610 Speaker 2: So I guess let's start with the fact that I 25 00:01:29,620 --> 00:01:33,540 Speaker 2: co-founded Endeavor 26 years ago and we started in Latin America. 26 00:01:33,550 --> 00:01:41,059 Speaker 2: We're now in countries across Latin America, Asia, Middle East, Europe, Africa, us, Canada. 27 00:01:41,069 --> 00:01:42,019 Speaker 2: But back 28 00:01:42,125 --> 00:01:44,724 Speaker 2: when I was founding Endeavor saying that there were high 29 00:01:44,735 --> 00:01:49,754 Speaker 2: growth entrepreneurs that were worthy of investment and mentorship and 30 00:01:49,764 --> 00:01:52,974 Speaker 2: attention and networks. Everyone called me crazy. So I was 31 00:01:52,985 --> 00:01:56,464 Speaker 2: known as Chico Loka, the Crazy Girl. And now it's 32 00:01:56,474 --> 00:01:59,285 Speaker 2: pretty obvious that there are entrepreneurs around the world and 33 00:01:59,294 --> 00:02:02,544 Speaker 2: worthy of investment. Although I know we're a little bit 34 00:02:02,555 --> 00:02:05,665 Speaker 2: on pause here in the region. But nonetheless, so looking 35 00:02:05,675 --> 00:02:06,105 Speaker 2: forward 36 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,820 Speaker 2: and you mentioned Yale. Anyway, so I'm the mom of 37 00:02:08,830 --> 00:02:12,850 Speaker 2: identical twin girls who are 18. They're during their second 38 00:02:12,860 --> 00:02:17,169 Speaker 2: half of their first year at Yale University under undergrads. 39 00:02:17,389 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 2: So even though I went to Harvard undergrad, I much 40 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:21,869 Speaker 2: preferred Yale. They're, they're very happy there and happy that 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,100 Speaker 2: I'm about to speak at Yale in us later. OK, great. 42 00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:27,419 Speaker 2: So today I want to focus on something that I've 43 00:02:27,429 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 2: seen pop up in my social media feed recently. And 44 00:02:31,130 --> 00:02:33,300 Speaker 2: so I thought you're the best person to ask about it, 45 00:02:33,309 --> 00:02:35,339 Speaker 2: something called executive presence. 46 00:02:35,699 --> 00:02:41,179 Speaker 2: This author Sylvia Ann Hewlett, she's a Cambridge educated economist 47 00:02:41,369 --> 00:02:44,479 Speaker 2: who wrote a book called Executive Presence, right? 48 00:02:44,788 --> 00:02:47,929 Speaker 2: So it's basically if I could just summarize it something 49 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:50,970 Speaker 2: like a magic source of a strong leader. It used 50 00:02:50,979 --> 00:02:56,490 Speaker 2: to be confidence, pedigree, charisma. She tries to distill what 51 00:02:56,500 --> 00:03:00,728 Speaker 2: executive presence is and what's needed for a new leader. Now, 52 00:03:00,940 --> 00:03:04,509 Speaker 2: the original one in my mind is like, yeah, your 53 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,309 Speaker 2: bank ceo, right? A white guy in a nice suit. 54 00:03:08,979 --> 00:03:13,198 Speaker 2: But things have changed, right? Things have changed like with 55 00:03:13,210 --> 00:03:17,059 Speaker 2: hybrid and Gen Z people expect new things out of 56 00:03:17,070 --> 00:03:21,198 Speaker 2: their leaders. She says people who can read the room 57 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:25,850 Speaker 2: who are inclusive, who listen to learn something authentic. I 58 00:03:25,860 --> 00:03:28,410 Speaker 2: don't know which is why you probably see CEO S 59 00:03:28,419 --> 00:03:31,929 Speaker 2: in sweatshirts. What do you think? It's hard to disagree 60 00:03:31,940 --> 00:03:34,660 Speaker 2: with the fact that there's a welcome 61 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: change in that rather than just being the authoritarian leader 62 00:03:39,449 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: that's just strong by showing no emotion and Kpis and 63 00:03:44,169 --> 00:03:46,789 Speaker 2: then firing people well, that there is this sense of 64 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,710 Speaker 2: listening and empathy and there's a lot more attention across 65 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,949 Speaker 2: the board on mental health. I think of employ poison 66 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,380 Speaker 2: within this. And I think Gen Z is looking for 67 00:03:55,389 --> 00:03:59,550 Speaker 2: purpose and looking for mission and looking for inspiration, leaders. 68 00:03:59,559 --> 00:04:00,330 Speaker 2: I think that's 69 00:04:00,899 --> 00:04:04,259 Speaker 2: perfect and I welcome that change from what you were 70 00:04:04,270 --> 00:04:07,639 Speaker 2: saying of the stern white guy in the suit. But 71 00:04:07,649 --> 00:04:12,559 Speaker 2: I guess I recoil a little bit when I hear 72 00:04:12,570 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: what executive presence should be and that there's one type 73 00:04:16,170 --> 00:04:18,820 Speaker 2: I think that's the trap we fall into and I 74 00:04:18,829 --> 00:04:23,019 Speaker 2: think of Elizabeth Holmes, the now disgraced founder of a 75 00:04:23,029 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: bad company who tried to wear Steve jobs like black 76 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,380 Speaker 2: T shirt and make her voice lower because that's what 77 00:04:30,390 --> 00:04:34,260 Speaker 2: an entrepreneur looks like. Or everyone who the hooded sweatshirt 78 00:04:34,269 --> 00:04:37,510 Speaker 2: of Mark Zuckerberg, I think that we need different role 79 00:04:37,519 --> 00:04:39,980 Speaker 2: models who don't try to all sort of fit into 80 00:04:39,988 --> 00:04:44,058 Speaker 2: one mold. And, and I guess for my own life experience, 81 00:04:44,070 --> 00:04:47,589 Speaker 2: I've been an executive now a founder entrepreneur, but also 82 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 2: ceo we have 600 full time employees and 2500 entrepreneurs 83 00:04:52,170 --> 00:04:52,820 Speaker 2: that I work with. 84 00:04:53,250 --> 00:04:56,768 Speaker 2: And I guess I had this misconception that I had 85 00:04:56,779 --> 00:05:00,709 Speaker 2: to be kind of tough and show no vulnerability and 86 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,970 Speaker 2: to be respected. And then what happened was I'm not 87 00:05:03,980 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 2: only the mom of these identical twins, but when they 88 00:05:06,730 --> 00:05:11,058 Speaker 2: were three, so 15 years ago, my husband got a 89 00:05:11,070 --> 00:05:15,678 Speaker 2: very serious cancer diagnosis. Only 100 people in the world 90 00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: had had this form of bone cancer. And 91 00:05:19,269 --> 00:05:23,540 Speaker 2: I basically took the year to make sure I still worked. 92 00:05:23,549 --> 00:05:27,980 Speaker 2: But I went to every hospital appointment, every chemotherapy treatment 93 00:05:28,510 --> 00:05:30,260 Speaker 2: was there for my girls. And when I, I came 94 00:05:30,269 --> 00:05:31,980 Speaker 2: back to the office, this was I was working from 95 00:05:31,988 --> 00:05:38,140 Speaker 2: home before obviously zoom. And when I came back, I thought, OK, 96 00:05:38,149 --> 00:05:41,058 Speaker 2: I need to show I'm strong. So the team feels 97 00:05:41,070 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 2: confident that they can follow me. And instead, iii I 98 00:05:44,290 --> 00:05:47,178 Speaker 2: broke down, I just, I, I couldn't help it. Someone 99 00:05:47,190 --> 00:05:49,019 Speaker 2: asked me a question. And 100 00:05:49,488 --> 00:05:51,420 Speaker 2: several people on my team looked at me and said, 101 00:05:51,428 --> 00:05:54,309 Speaker 2: you know what, Linda, we always thought you were super human, 102 00:05:54,660 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 2: but now that we see you as a real person, 103 00:05:57,290 --> 00:05:59,609 Speaker 2: we'll follow you anywhere. And so what I learned from 104 00:05:59,619 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: that is we all have to be a little less 105 00:06:01,928 --> 00:06:05,940 Speaker 2: super and a little more human. That's my personal leadership lesson. 106 00:06:06,019 --> 00:06:09,609 Speaker 2: I love that story. It sounds really dramatic, Linda for 107 00:06:09,619 --> 00:06:15,070 Speaker 2: you to know who you really are because something terrible 108 00:06:15,079 --> 00:06:16,660 Speaker 2: happened to you. 109 00:06:17,428 --> 00:06:20,220 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, yes, I think everyone needs to take things 110 00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:24,178 Speaker 2: to the extreme. But I think it was a lesson of, hey, 111 00:06:24,190 --> 00:06:28,690 Speaker 2: I can be myself and I am a passionate person 112 00:06:28,700 --> 00:06:30,529 Speaker 2: and I am someone who's not going to be all 113 00:06:30,540 --> 00:06:33,390 Speaker 2: buttoned up in the people. That was what they wanted 114 00:06:33,399 --> 00:06:35,290 Speaker 2: to see from me. They want to see other things 115 00:06:35,299 --> 00:06:37,779 Speaker 2: from other people who have different styles. I think that 116 00:06:37,970 --> 00:06:38,690 Speaker 2: to me that's 117 00:06:38,799 --> 00:06:40,899 Speaker 2: one of the reasons why endeavor focuses on the what 118 00:06:40,910 --> 00:06:43,229 Speaker 2: we call the role model effect. And I think that 119 00:06:43,238 --> 00:06:46,678 Speaker 2: there is no one right entrepreneur or there is no 120 00:06:46,690 --> 00:06:50,119 Speaker 2: one right leader. And I think that when we showcase 121 00:06:50,130 --> 00:06:54,859 Speaker 2: people not only have different backgrounds but different leadership styles, 122 00:06:54,869 --> 00:06:57,619 Speaker 2: I think that's really important because I think that the 123 00:06:57,630 --> 00:07:00,170 Speaker 2: fallacy is that we all have to fit into 124 00:07:01,070 --> 00:07:05,459 Speaker 2: whatever the flavor is, whether it was the stern kind 125 00:07:05,470 --> 00:07:10,019 Speaker 2: of army sergeant. And now it's the empathic cuddly person. 126 00:07:10,029 --> 00:07:13,750 Speaker 2: I don't think either of those extremes are one size 127 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,049 Speaker 2: fits all. Oh, I totally agree. Ok, you must sit 128 00:07:17,059 --> 00:07:20,119 Speaker 2: in many top level presentations, right when you're looking for 129 00:07:20,130 --> 00:07:23,059 Speaker 2: businesses to invest in. So you must see a lot 130 00:07:23,070 --> 00:07:27,500 Speaker 2: of ceo s founders, young old women, men, et cetera. 131 00:07:27,829 --> 00:07:30,950 Speaker 2: What is your litmus test when you see someone? And 132 00:07:30,959 --> 00:07:35,130 Speaker 2: you say, ok, this guy I'm gonna invest in, 133 00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:39,458 Speaker 2: people have to be able to tell stories. I think 134 00:07:39,470 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: that when we're looking for entrepreneurs, we're looking for people 135 00:07:43,890 --> 00:07:47,750 Speaker 2: who have seen pain points and problems and they're trying 136 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,809 Speaker 2: to solve those problems at scale. And even if you 137 00:07:50,820 --> 00:07:54,630 Speaker 2: have a tech company that you think is complicated, your 138 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: job is to make it simple 139 00:07:56,279 --> 00:07:59,820 Speaker 2: and your job is to simply explain what is the 140 00:07:59,829 --> 00:08:02,339 Speaker 2: problem you're trying to solve what is the need you're 141 00:08:02,350 --> 00:08:05,820 Speaker 2: trying to fill better than anyone else. And why should people, 142 00:08:05,829 --> 00:08:09,190 Speaker 2: whether they're employees or investors or customers come along with 143 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,429 Speaker 2: you on the journey. That's it the simpler, the better. 144 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:14,869 Speaker 2: I mean, Disney's mission 145 00:08:15,149 --> 00:08:17,279 Speaker 2: is to make people happy. And I think people who 146 00:08:17,290 --> 00:08:20,268 Speaker 2: cannot break their story down and try to think that 147 00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:24,029 Speaker 2: the more complicated it is, the more they sound really impressive. 148 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,250 Speaker 2: I think they make a mistake. That's the number one 149 00:08:26,260 --> 00:08:29,209 Speaker 2: thing I look for is can someone tell me a 150 00:08:29,220 --> 00:08:31,690 Speaker 2: story that somewhat compelling that I want to follow? The? 151 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:34,250 Speaker 2: Why is this leader solving this 152 00:08:34,354 --> 00:08:39,233 Speaker 2: problem? What Drew you make the connection personal and I 153 00:08:39,244 --> 00:08:43,064 Speaker 2: think that everyone wants to follow you back to the human. 154 00:08:43,343 --> 00:08:47,174 Speaker 2: I want to know what drew you to solving this. Yeah, 155 00:08:47,184 --> 00:08:50,443 Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up because public speaking is 156 00:08:50,453 --> 00:08:53,494 Speaker 2: a really big factor for presence in a leader. 157 00:08:53,690 --> 00:08:56,218 Speaker 2: I think we can't run away from it. I would 158 00:08:56,229 --> 00:09:00,469 Speaker 2: say that some people have that in Spades. OK. Steve Jobs, 159 00:09:00,479 --> 00:09:04,710 Speaker 2: for example, I mean, that guy didn't need a teleprompter 160 00:09:04,719 --> 00:09:09,380 Speaker 2: or a powerpoint slide. He didn't even need notes. Come on. 161 00:09:09,390 --> 00:09:12,950 Speaker 2: How many people can do that way, right? You're right. 162 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,069 Speaker 2: Somebody who can connect with me, just talk to me 163 00:09:17,460 --> 00:09:18,549 Speaker 2: simply 164 00:09:18,849 --> 00:09:21,109 Speaker 2: and try to tell me what is it that you 165 00:09:21,119 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: want me to know? Wins half the battle. Right? Exactly. 166 00:09:24,770 --> 00:09:28,140 Speaker 2: And I think that having worked around the world, what 167 00:09:28,150 --> 00:09:31,260 Speaker 2: I would say about this region in particular in Southeast 168 00:09:31,270 --> 00:09:36,270 Speaker 2: Asia is sometimes there is a prize on being humble 169 00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:38,669 Speaker 2: and respectful and not 170 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,799 Speaker 2: tooting one's own horn. And I think that there is 171 00:09:42,809 --> 00:09:48,710 Speaker 2: a way without being ego driven to show people why 172 00:09:48,719 --> 00:09:53,819 Speaker 2: you're so passionate about this idea about your company, about 173 00:09:53,830 --> 00:09:58,819 Speaker 2: your people. Find something even if it's not self aggrandized 174 00:09:59,729 --> 00:10:02,830 Speaker 2: that you can draw people to. Because I think that 175 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,250 Speaker 2: sometimes when we look at founders from Southeast Asia versus 176 00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:09,159 Speaker 2: us from Latin America or Europe, the others are coming 177 00:10:09,169 --> 00:10:13,130 Speaker 2: in almost overly marketing, right? They have the opposite problem. 178 00:10:13,140 --> 00:10:16,250 Speaker 2: I always tell the Argentines. OK. A little is good, 179 00:10:16,299 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 2: but here a little more is OK. 180 00:10:19,070 --> 00:10:20,809 Speaker 2: And I think that's what I would say to people. 181 00:10:20,820 --> 00:10:25,010 Speaker 2: If you're worried about seeming egotistical, then find a different 182 00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:28,689 Speaker 2: way to shift the focus to your customers or to 183 00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:32,690 Speaker 2: your employees or to your shareholders. But get people excited 184 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:35,630 Speaker 2: about what you're doing. And even if you're an introvert, 185 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,848 Speaker 2: which is totally fine. I've seen wonderful founders and leaders 186 00:10:38,859 --> 00:10:42,049 Speaker 2: who are more introverted. But I think that again 187 00:10:42,140 --> 00:10:44,609 Speaker 2: and finding a way to make that connection then and 188 00:10:44,849 --> 00:10:48,989 Speaker 2: draw people in quiet people can lead, but they have 189 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,659 Speaker 2: to find a way to then draw people in that 190 00:10:50,669 --> 00:10:53,450 Speaker 2: works for them. But I'm just wondering in this part 191 00:10:53,460 --> 00:10:57,309 Speaker 2: of the world English is not really like a first language. 192 00:10:57,450 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 2: So maybe being articulate is quite a challenge for some people. 193 00:11:02,289 --> 00:11:05,799 Speaker 2: Do you think that this can be learned to be 194 00:11:05,809 --> 00:11:07,159 Speaker 2: able to communicate 195 00:11:07,739 --> 00:11:11,179 Speaker 2: honestly authentically? Can it be learned? I think people get 196 00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:15,119 Speaker 2: better at it. Yes. My husband who is a writer 197 00:11:15,330 --> 00:11:19,098 Speaker 2: written seven New York Times bestseller books. He's still alive, 198 00:11:19,109 --> 00:11:22,659 Speaker 2: I should say 15 years cancer free. And he is 199 00:11:22,669 --> 00:11:25,569 Speaker 2: a wonderful public speaker. And his three TED talks have 200 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:29,739 Speaker 2: reached several million views and he's been on television a lot, 201 00:11:29,789 --> 00:11:33,409 Speaker 2: but he actually went and got lessons from an actor 202 00:11:33,715 --> 00:11:37,853 Speaker 2: coach and to learn how to be a better speaker 203 00:11:37,864 --> 00:11:42,755 Speaker 2: and learn that sometimes going quiet, actually pausing and shifting 204 00:11:42,765 --> 00:11:46,103 Speaker 2: and not being all one note is actually even more helpful. 205 00:11:46,114 --> 00:11:48,304 Speaker 2: So I do think it's learned, but back to the 206 00:11:48,315 --> 00:11:51,155 Speaker 2: English speaking, it's funny because we have one, a gaming 207 00:11:51,164 --> 00:11:54,575 Speaker 2: company founder in Vietnam was very nervous because he was 208 00:11:54,585 --> 00:11:56,565 Speaker 2: going through an Endeavor selection panel where he was going 209 00:11:56,575 --> 00:11:59,265 Speaker 2: to have to pitch on Zoom to six 210 00:11:59,349 --> 00:12:02,169 Speaker 2: feces and entrepreneurs and people who are going to judge 211 00:12:02,179 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 2: whether he would join Endeavor. And he said to me, 212 00:12:04,650 --> 00:12:08,409 Speaker 2: I'm very nervous. I don't speak English that well. But 213 00:12:08,419 --> 00:12:12,979 Speaker 2: his passion for this gaming and music company combined and 214 00:12:12,989 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 2: you saw the guitars in the background and it flew 215 00:12:16,690 --> 00:12:19,228 Speaker 2: off the table, everyone loved him. And it did not 216 00:12:19,239 --> 00:12:25,130 Speaker 2: matter that the words were not always perfectly phrased. You 217 00:12:25,215 --> 00:12:29,525 Speaker 2: could feel his belief in energy and the numbers hold 218 00:12:29,534 --> 00:12:32,135 Speaker 2: a good story and he was the favorite person on 219 00:12:32,145 --> 00:12:35,635 Speaker 2: the panel. Wow, I'm just going to wrap up maybe 220 00:12:35,645 --> 00:12:41,364 Speaker 2: one last question, Linda. OK. 10 years ago, authenticity wasn't 221 00:12:41,375 --> 00:12:45,625 Speaker 2: on anybody's list. But now it is apparently this new 222 00:12:45,635 --> 00:12:49,164 Speaker 2: generation of people, they don't want some brushed up models 223 00:12:49,174 --> 00:12:52,034 Speaker 2: saying the right things, et cetera. But 224 00:12:52,580 --> 00:12:56,150 Speaker 2: I think there is a conundrum here because most people 225 00:12:56,159 --> 00:13:00,289 Speaker 2: have a carefully crafted presence, especially online, right? You can't 226 00:13:00,299 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 2: just shoot your mouth off. I mean, these things have 227 00:13:03,450 --> 00:13:06,090 Speaker 2: a way to come back to you. So what do 228 00:13:06,099 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: you think is the most difficult thing about crafting a presence? 229 00:13:10,979 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 2: Well, I think you just put it perfectly that that's 230 00:13:13,729 --> 00:13:16,859 Speaker 2: a dichotomy or a menm, as you said, that on 231 00:13:16,869 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 2: the one hand, crafting a presence is what we're expected 232 00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:23,530 Speaker 2: to do online and quote. And then we're told at 233 00:13:23,539 --> 00:13:26,809 Speaker 2: the same time to be authentic and authentic in crafting 234 00:13:26,820 --> 00:13:29,539 Speaker 2: seem to be antithetical. First of all, I think, as 235 00:13:29,549 --> 00:13:31,710 Speaker 2: I said, we need more role models and different types 236 00:13:31,719 --> 00:13:34,488 Speaker 2: of role models and it's not just their background, it's 237 00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:36,039 Speaker 2: not just the gender diversity 238 00:13:36,297 --> 00:13:39,256 Speaker 2: or the ethnic diversity or geographic diversity. I think we 239 00:13:39,268 --> 00:13:43,177 Speaker 2: need diversity of all types, including temperament and style so 240 00:13:43,187 --> 00:13:46,947 Speaker 2: that people will understand that there is no right way. 241 00:13:47,158 --> 00:13:50,947 Speaker 2: So I think the way people craft their profiles is 242 00:13:50,958 --> 00:13:54,127 Speaker 2: just basically looking at what got the most views by 243 00:13:54,138 --> 00:13:57,047 Speaker 2: someone else. And so by definition, everything feels like a 244 00:13:57,057 --> 00:14:01,177 Speaker 2: replica of a cut and paste version of what 245 00:14:01,296 --> 00:14:04,835 Speaker 2: on trend at the moment. Look, I think the work 246 00:14:04,846 --> 00:14:07,645 Speaker 2: people need to do and I think getting to know 247 00:14:07,716 --> 00:14:11,515 Speaker 2: oneself takes a lifetime. So I think that's hard and 248 00:14:11,526 --> 00:14:14,005 Speaker 2: that's scary for people. And I think especially as a 249 00:14:14,015 --> 00:14:16,366 Speaker 2: mom of young girls, I see them struggling with what 250 00:14:16,375 --> 00:14:19,116 Speaker 2: people like the real me. You know, if I'm authentic 251 00:14:19,226 --> 00:14:22,856 Speaker 2: and they reject me, then they're rejecting me. Whereas if 252 00:14:22,866 --> 00:14:25,875 Speaker 2: it's a persona, they're not rejecting me, they're rejecting my persona. 253 00:14:25,885 --> 00:14:26,346 Speaker 2: I can deal. 254 00:14:26,624 --> 00:14:30,133 Speaker 2: So I think often times people put on that persona, 255 00:14:30,143 --> 00:14:33,434 Speaker 2: people craft that image so that they won't have to 256 00:14:33,443 --> 00:14:37,554 Speaker 2: feel the personal rejection. And so what I would say 257 00:14:37,564 --> 00:14:44,994 Speaker 2: is that entrepreneurship, leadership, friendship, dating, anything you were going 258 00:14:45,004 --> 00:14:47,713 Speaker 2: to get door slammed in your face, you are going 259 00:14:47,723 --> 00:14:51,234 Speaker 2: to face rejection, you were going to make mistakes. You 260 00:14:51,244 --> 00:14:51,434 Speaker 2: were 261 00:14:51,611 --> 00:14:54,802 Speaker 2: going to hit bumpy times. What is this period? But 262 00:14:54,812 --> 00:14:56,872 Speaker 2: bumpy times, I'm here in Southeast Asia. No one can 263 00:14:56,882 --> 00:15:00,492 Speaker 2: get funding anymore. People who are top of their game 264 00:15:00,502 --> 00:15:03,122 Speaker 2: are now told, sorry, you can't grow anymore. You have 265 00:15:03,132 --> 00:15:06,262 Speaker 2: to be profitable. So I think that what people have 266 00:15:06,271 --> 00:15:09,651 Speaker 2: to realize is that is the norm. They're doing nothing wrong. 267 00:15:09,981 --> 00:15:15,921 Speaker 2: The volatility, the occasional rejection, the occasional missteps is part 268 00:15:15,932 --> 00:15:16,591 Speaker 2: of the journey. 269 00:15:16,909 --> 00:15:21,119 Speaker 2: And I think if people realize that then maybe one 270 00:15:21,130 --> 00:15:25,210 Speaker 2: false move or one rejection won't sting quite as hard. 271 00:15:25,219 --> 00:15:27,369 Speaker 2: That's where hopefully we need to get to. What do 272 00:15:27,380 --> 00:15:29,330 Speaker 2: you think? Because I think people are afraid of being 273 00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:32,270 Speaker 2: canceled or they're afraid of being rejected. And that's why 274 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,650 Speaker 2: they put on these kind of personas that are, that 275 00:15:35,659 --> 00:15:37,570 Speaker 2: seem to be all the same. Do I think that 276 00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:41,119 Speaker 2: people are worried about being canceled? Oh my God. Absolutely. 277 00:15:41,130 --> 00:15:42,679 Speaker 2: In Singapore especially 278 00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:45,909 Speaker 2: it's so small, right? So when something goes viral really 279 00:15:45,919 --> 00:15:48,690 Speaker 2: goes viral, like everybody knows about this. 280 00:15:49,109 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 2: So people become really, really careful about what they say. Yeah, 281 00:15:54,739 --> 00:15:56,969 Speaker 2: I think we've become so risk averse. We have to 282 00:15:56,979 --> 00:16:01,729 Speaker 2: figure out how not to be just blind and hurtful, 283 00:16:01,739 --> 00:16:05,020 Speaker 2: but I think without being so cautious that no one's 284 00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:07,919 Speaker 2: really speaking what's on their minds. Yeah. But I also 285 00:16:07,929 --> 00:16:10,570 Speaker 2: think it's because of the response we're getting. Right. Sometimes 286 00:16:10,580 --> 00:16:14,330 Speaker 2: you say something, which on paper sounds perfectly ok to 287 00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:16,289 Speaker 2: reasonable people. It sounds ok. But then 288 00:16:16,539 --> 00:16:19,900 Speaker 2: it's taken to mean something completely different. I don't know. 289 00:16:19,909 --> 00:16:21,559 Speaker 2: It's so polarizing. 290 00:16:22,309 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, my hope is with Gen Z who came 291 00:16:26,650 --> 00:16:30,130 Speaker 2: up on whatsapp, who came up digital first that they 292 00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:34,039 Speaker 2: help all the rest of us learn new norms. The 293 00:16:34,049 --> 00:16:36,849 Speaker 2: problem is the old norms don't really work in this 294 00:16:36,859 --> 00:16:37,690 Speaker 2: every 295 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,299 Speaker 2: minute on world and yet we have not figured out 296 00:16:41,309 --> 00:16:44,510 Speaker 2: new norms. So my hope is that this is this uncomfortable, 297 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:49,179 Speaker 2: awkward period before kind of the next generation figures it out. 298 00:16:49,270 --> 00:16:51,059 Speaker 2: I always have these conversations with my girls are like, 299 00:16:51,070 --> 00:16:53,500 Speaker 2: it's not that difficult mom. Yeah. 300 00:16:54,260 --> 00:16:56,849 Speaker 2: What are you talking about? It's not that difficult to 301 00:16:56,859 --> 00:16:59,679 Speaker 2: not say anything that's gonna get you canceled. Please give 302 00:16:59,690 --> 00:17:03,580 Speaker 2: me a break. Wow. Easy for 18 year olds to 303 00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:06,949 Speaker 2: say what I say. One last thing. The one thing 304 00:17:06,959 --> 00:17:09,239 Speaker 2: I would say, you know, I'm about to go speak to, 305 00:17:09,329 --> 00:17:11,260 Speaker 2: speaking of 18 year olds, I'm about to go speak 306 00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:14,849 Speaker 2: to college students, right at N US. And I just 307 00:17:14,859 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 2: had the pleasure of meeting with 308 00:17:16,025 --> 00:17:21,145 Speaker 2: 30 recent grads, many of whom were starting entrepreneurial careers 309 00:17:21,155 --> 00:17:25,665 Speaker 2: in venture capital, careers in creative fields. And I think 310 00:17:25,675 --> 00:17:31,125 Speaker 2: that what is hopeful about this difficult period. Right. Is that, 311 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,099 Speaker 2: I think when everything is up into the right and 312 00:17:36,109 --> 00:17:39,229 Speaker 2: everyone is building and everyone seems to be getting money. 313 00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:41,188 Speaker 2: People are saying, wait a minute, what's wrong with me? 314 00:17:41,199 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 2: If I'm not one of these rock star people who 315 00:17:44,369 --> 00:17:47,419 Speaker 2: are just getting everything and getting all the venture capital 316 00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:49,899 Speaker 2: or starting a business. What's wrong with me? Right. 317 00:17:50,439 --> 00:17:52,310 Speaker 2: And I think right now where it's kind of the 318 00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:55,069 Speaker 2: opposite and the pendulum swung too far and I think 319 00:17:55,079 --> 00:17:58,319 Speaker 2: everyone now feels very negative about what's going on. I 320 00:17:58,329 --> 00:18:01,060 Speaker 2: think I've been the most positive person here in Singapore 321 00:18:01,079 --> 00:18:04,069 Speaker 2: the last week. But people are saying, ok, wait a minute. 322 00:18:04,079 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 2: Maybe it's not so scary to start. Maybe I need 323 00:18:06,130 --> 00:18:08,270 Speaker 2: to start out being profitable. I don't need to get money. 324 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,550 Speaker 2: Maybe this crazy idea I had, I can, I can 325 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,649 Speaker 2: try and I think that this weird 326 00:18:16,056 --> 00:18:18,605 Speaker 2: of people coming down to earth and valuations coming down 327 00:18:18,615 --> 00:18:22,296 Speaker 2: to earth. It seems scary in the moment and, and 328 00:18:22,306 --> 00:18:25,865 Speaker 2: yet it actually gives that next generation coming up. I 329 00:18:25,875 --> 00:18:28,446 Speaker 2: think more confidence that they're not doing something wrong. It's 330 00:18:28,455 --> 00:18:30,416 Speaker 2: going to be hard. So they have a little bit 331 00:18:30,426 --> 00:18:34,255 Speaker 2: more realism because it was always hard. Right. I'm very 332 00:18:34,265 --> 00:18:38,666 Speaker 2: hopeful that we're really going to see people trying things 333 00:18:38,676 --> 00:18:41,264 Speaker 2: out and taking some risks 334 00:18:42,071 --> 00:18:45,291 Speaker 2: and worrying a little bit less about the repercussions because 335 00:18:45,302 --> 00:18:48,621 Speaker 2: they've seen other people fail or, you know, raise down 336 00:18:48,631 --> 00:18:51,781 Speaker 2: rounds or, or, or whatever it is and sort of say, ok, 337 00:18:51,791 --> 00:18:54,631 Speaker 2: and they, they're still standing, they're still surviving. I think 338 00:18:54,641 --> 00:18:57,052 Speaker 2: we need more of that. I think people who come 339 00:18:57,061 --> 00:19:01,462 Speaker 2: up in downturns actually end up doing much better over 340 00:19:01,472 --> 00:19:03,921 Speaker 2: the course of their career. So that's what I would 341 00:19:03,932 --> 00:19:06,031 Speaker 2: say to the young people listening. This is actually the 342 00:19:06,041 --> 00:19:06,781 Speaker 2: best time 343 00:19:07,277 --> 00:19:09,567 Speaker 2: to be starting something new. It's the best time to 344 00:19:09,578 --> 00:19:11,137 Speaker 2: be heading out in the workforce. I know it seems 345 00:19:11,147 --> 00:19:15,027 Speaker 2: probably scary and probably people aren't hiring or aren't hiring 346 00:19:15,037 --> 00:19:18,177 Speaker 2: at the crazy sums of money that they were a 347 00:19:18,186 --> 00:19:21,647 Speaker 2: couple of years ago. But just know that everything happens 348 00:19:21,657 --> 00:19:25,008 Speaker 2: in cycles and right and so be there for the 349 00:19:25,017 --> 00:19:28,128 Speaker 2: long term. So that's my little pitch to those graduating 350 00:19:28,277 --> 00:19:32,297 Speaker 2: yay for the positivity. I also feel it's cost correcting. 351 00:19:32,394 --> 00:19:34,703 Speaker 2: I was looking at some of the insane amounts of 352 00:19:34,713 --> 00:19:37,484 Speaker 2: easy money that was raised and salaries that were paid. 353 00:19:37,494 --> 00:19:40,313 Speaker 2: I think in a way the system is cost correcting, 354 00:19:40,404 --> 00:19:43,093 Speaker 2: which is not a bad thing. So, well, let's see 355 00:19:43,104 --> 00:19:46,614 Speaker 2: how it goes. Thank you so much, Linda for coming on. 356 00:19:46,624 --> 00:19:49,783 Speaker 2: It's quite an impossible feat for one person to tick 357 00:19:49,792 --> 00:19:53,633 Speaker 2: all the boxes as Linda. So rightly says, if it 358 00:19:53,644 --> 00:19:56,894 Speaker 2: were up to me, I'd pick somebody who would I 359 00:19:56,904 --> 00:19:57,713 Speaker 2: follow 360 00:19:57,910 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 2: somebody with character. Does he do the right thing? Somebody 361 00:20:01,010 --> 00:20:04,170 Speaker 2: who can communicate? Does he speak simply as Linda says? 362 00:20:04,270 --> 00:20:07,149 Speaker 2: And charisma, come on. If you're going to be right 363 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 2: at the top. You've got to have a little bit 364 00:20:09,369 --> 00:20:12,310 Speaker 2: of the X factor. Right? Thanks to my guests and 365 00:20:12,319 --> 00:20:15,109 Speaker 2: to you for listening to work it. I appreciate all 366 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,310 Speaker 2: your notes and comments and messages and of course, the 367 00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:21,819 Speaker 2: CN A podcast team till we meet next week, have 368 00:20:21,829 --> 00:20:23,290 Speaker 2: a good work week, everyone.