Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast.
Speaker 1: Tigers, such an iconic animal, powerful and elusive, they've roamed
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia for thousands of years, but they're endangered. And
Speaker 1: in the wild, chances are you'll never come close to one.
Speaker 1: Today we have the good news about tiger conservation in
Speaker 1: the region. Hello and welcome to Climate Conversations. I'm Jack Bod.
Speaker 1: Hello Lee Ling Tan, as always.
Speaker 1: Good to see you. Have you ever? No, I actually haven't.
Speaker 1: The closest I've been to seeing any kind of wild
Speaker 1: cats in the wild is at a national park in
Speaker 1: mountain lion territory. So that was a little bit scary,
Speaker 1: but I didn't see. No, no, no, I was in
Speaker 1: mountain lion territory. I was walking my little tiny miniature
Speaker 1: dog in mountain lion territory without realizing. Anyway, never seen
Speaker 1: a tiger, that's for sure, but I'm guessing you have.
Speaker 1: No, I've never, never seen a tiger in the wild. No,
Speaker 1: I think it's extremely difficult, um, and very rare for
Speaker 1: that to happen. They're, they're pretty um.
Speaker 1: They're pretty elusive. So, no, I tried to, as we'll
Speaker 1: discuss in the story coming up today, but unfortunately, no
Speaker 1: sightings for me except on the camera trap. You know,
Speaker 1: they could be looking at you without you realizing, right?
Speaker 1: They're so stealthy. Yeah. OK. Let's see how stealthy you
Speaker 1: are with this quiz. We are talking about endangered species today,
Speaker 1: tiger being one of them.
Speaker 1: I want to know how well you know some of
Speaker 1: the other animals in our part of the world, how
Speaker 1: many of them are left in the wild.
Speaker 1: Lee Ling, can you rank these animals by their estimated
Speaker 1: wild population number?
Speaker 1: So we've got the Indo-Chinese tiger. There are several types
Speaker 1: of tigers in Southeast Asia. I'm talking about the Indo-Chinese
Speaker 1: tiger that you would find in Thailand, for example. We
Speaker 1: have the Siamese crocodile.
Speaker 1: We have the Sumatran rhino.
Speaker 1: And we have the Sumatran orangutan.
Speaker 1: So inter-Chinese tigers, Siamese crocodiles, Sumatra rhino, what was it?
Speaker 1: Sumatran orangutan, um, from smallest population to largest? Or. Anyway, you,
Speaker 1: you want to do it. All right, so let's let's
Speaker 1: have a think about it so we give our listeners
Speaker 1: a chance to think about it too, and then they
Speaker 1: can write their comments and we'll see. OK. See how
Speaker 1: well you do at home, see if you can beat
Speaker 1: Li Ling on this one. Answers at the end of
Speaker 1: the podcast.
Speaker 1: Now for our main story this week. So, I'm sitting
Speaker 1: on the back of a pickup truck traversing along a
Speaker 1: dirt trail through thick and dry evergreen forest. This is
Speaker 1: the home to all sorts of animals, black bears, elephants
Speaker 1: to piers, but today the research crew and national park
Speaker 1: rangers are on a tiger hunt, one designed to save
Speaker 1: the big cats. Their traps of choice are camera traps.
Speaker 1: This is Meirong National Park, some 360 kilometers northwest of Bangkok,
Speaker 1: and it's here that tigers are making a big comeback.
Speaker 1: So wait.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you were having an Indiana Jones moment there, Jack,
Speaker 1: or perhaps, or perhaps channeling David Attenborough, you know, our
Speaker 1: story begins in the glistening jungles of Thailand's vast western
Speaker 1: forest complex, where the Indo-Chinese tiger is staging a remarkable comeback.
Speaker 1: Very good, very good accent. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Was it exciting? Did you manage to, did you manage
Speaker 1: to find tigers? You said earlier you didn't, so that's
Speaker 1: a shame. But how close were you really? And were
Speaker 1: you at any point nervous that you might be in
Speaker 1: the proximity of, you know, what, a 200 pound wild cat? No,
Speaker 1: I don't think I was nervous. I just think like the,
Speaker 1: the chances of seeing them during the day as we
Speaker 1: trundle along in a, you know, a 4 wheel drive
Speaker 1: was pretty limited.
Speaker 1: And really, we're not, we weren't really looking for the
Speaker 1: tigers themselves. Of course, they were out there roaming somewhere,
Speaker 1: but they are very hard to spot and, and generally
Speaker 1: not very keen on people. So we were headed towards
Speaker 1: a salt lick in the middle of the park. So
Speaker 1: this kind of just looks like a big mud pit.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've been on a safari before,
Speaker 1: but animals get attracted to these types of places. It's
Speaker 1: the source of a lot of important,
Speaker 1: Minerals that animals need. And this one was actually artificially
Speaker 1: created and it becomes sort of this meeting place where
Speaker 1: tigers like to wander around looking for prey, and of
Speaker 1: course where the prey tends to congregate at different times
Speaker 1: of the day. And that's what these cameras that are
Speaker 1: installed here are trying to capture, the signs of life.
Speaker 1: So we're standing there in the middle of the jungle,
Speaker 1: looking at a a laptop, scanning for this automatically detected
Speaker 1: movement of various animals.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot, including elephants who routinely like to
Speaker 1: knock over the trees that contain the cameras. When we arrived,
Speaker 1: the the camera was just kind of like,
Speaker 1: Tied with a chain to the tree, but the tree
Speaker 1: was just lying on the ground. And then, of course,
Speaker 1: as well, there were bones scattered on the ground. So
Speaker 1: that was kind of interesting to show that tigers had
Speaker 1: been around as well. What about tiger poo, like scat?
Speaker 1: Was that something you guys were looking out for one
Speaker 1: of the first things that the teams noticed that there
Speaker 1: was scat of various animals which showed that this was
Speaker 1: a busy part of of the jungle.
Speaker 1: And a paw print as well of a of a
Speaker 1: large cat. And when you say automatically detected, were these
Speaker 1: cameras that came with motion sensors and night vision and
Speaker 1: were they just installed in different parts, OK.
Speaker 1: But how many were installed, I mean, the Western Forest
Speaker 1: Complex is massive, right? It's got 11 national parks, 6
Speaker 1: wildlife sanctuaries. How do you track the tiger population in
Speaker 1: an area like that? Yeah, exactly, you're right, that this,
Speaker 1: this is an extremely large complex. It's more than 18,000
Speaker 1: square kilometers. So it basically stretches along this flank, Thailand's
Speaker 1: flank with Myanmar.
Speaker 1: Uh, it's actually the largest forest track in mainland Southeast Asia.
Speaker 1: So this is a huge area, 11 national parks, as
Speaker 1: you said, uh, camera traps in strategic places. They're obviously
Speaker 1: not putting cameras.
Speaker 1: Just everywhere because that would be a waste of resources,
Speaker 1: and of course the rangers have to every now and
Speaker 1: then go and visit these cameras to kind of understand
Speaker 1: what's been happening. So, they tend to strategically place them
Speaker 1: where they know animals like to congregate. And so by
Speaker 1: creating this salt lick.
Speaker 1: They can draw animals to that spot. So that's what
Speaker 1: they've done in this case. OK, so we know for
Speaker 1: decades that tiger numbers around the world have been dwindling,
Speaker 1: and this is due largely to hunting, poaching, habitat loss,
Speaker 1: infectious diseases as well. I think now globally we've got
Speaker 1: something like 5000 tigers in the wild, am I right?
Speaker 1: You've mentioned in your article too that numbers have been
Speaker 1: rebounding slowly but surely in countries like India and Nepal,
Speaker 1: but they have largely been declining in Southeast Asia and Thailand,
Speaker 1: you say is bucking this overall trend in the region.
Speaker 1: That's right. So right now in Mei Wong alone, there
Speaker 1: are 9 tigers that are believed to be living in
Speaker 1: just this national park.
Speaker 1: So that doesn't really sound like many, right? But there
Speaker 1: were probably none going back just a few years. And
Speaker 1: this wasn't even protected land until 1987. So Thailand is
Speaker 1: doing something differently. It is bucking the trend as you,
Speaker 1: as you say.
Speaker 1: Now across Thailand, there's estimated to be between 179 and
Speaker 1: 223 adult tigers in the wild, and the numbers are growing.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of potential for these protected landscapes
Speaker 1: where they are starting to flourish, to carry many more tigers.
Speaker 1: The WeFCO, which is the Western Forest complex, could potentially
Speaker 1: support up to 2000 tigers, given the right protections, according
Speaker 1: to some experts.
Speaker 1: And I interviewed Alex McWilliam, who is the regional coordinator
Speaker 1: for species and habitats at the International Union for Conservation
Speaker 1: of Nature.
Speaker 1: He explains the global situation that's going on with tigers,
Speaker 1: some of these numbers, and also why tigers are important
Speaker 1: for an ecosystem. Tigers
Speaker 2: are endangered, unfortunately, and I think we need to remember
Speaker 2: that just over 100 years ago there were more than
Speaker 2: 100,000 tigers that occurred on our planet, and that means
Speaker 2: that there's been an almost 95% reduction in the number
Speaker 2: of tigers in just the last 100 years.
Speaker 2: Um, and now tigers only occur in 10 countries across Asia, and, uh,
Speaker 2: they only inhabit around 7% of the land area that
Speaker 2: they once lived in, uh, over time. Tigers are an
Speaker 2: important part of an ecosystem. They are a top tier
Speaker 2: predator in those ecosystems, and.
Speaker 2: If we have healthy tiger populations, that means that we
Speaker 2: also have healthy populations of other species. We have uh
Speaker 2: good uh biodiversity in those areas, and that means that, uh, overall,
Speaker 2: the system, uh of forest, the forest is a complete
Speaker 2: and working well.
Speaker 1: He also told me about the benefits to humans that
Speaker 1: are pretty clear as well from having tiger populations that
Speaker 1: are healthy.
Speaker 1: And tiger conservation efforts do more than just protect tigers,
Speaker 1: they can improve things like economic security for local population,
Speaker 1: they can strengthen food and water systems and also empower
Speaker 1: communities in the land that they inhabit. So how do
Speaker 1: healthy tiger population
Speaker 1: actually lead to healthy populations of other species like, you know,
Speaker 1: prey species. I mean more tigers mean they need more prey, right?
Speaker 1: Wouldn't the prey population deplete? So you're right, they're not
Speaker 1: just focusing on the tigers because it's the prey that
Speaker 1: that matters.
Speaker 1: Yes, the tigers are hungry, they're gonna eat, they're gonna
Speaker 1: eat the prey. And that's why we're calling them, that's
Speaker 1: why we're calling them the prey. Right, yes. If they
Speaker 1: have these food sources, they can expand their territories. They
Speaker 1: can grow in population. And in Maerong, actually what they're
Speaker 1: doing is focusing on increasing the number of deer, for example,
Speaker 1: and Bang, and they've already begun work on these dedicated
Speaker 1: off-site breeding centers of those particular species.
Speaker 1: Which when they're ready, they're gonna release into the wild.
Speaker 1: Oh wow. So I think that's kind of interesting like
Speaker 1: you're just rearing these deers and then you're like, OK,
Speaker 1: good luck out into the tiger habitat. That's interesting. So
Speaker 1: they're kind of plumping up the prey population to sustain.
Speaker 1: The increasing tiger population, that makes sense. Now, the other
Speaker 1: thing is, we know, Jack, that conservation generally is really
Speaker 1: slow and also very tough to execute effectively. How did
Speaker 1: Thailand manage to do what so many others couldn't? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a key point that experts I spoke to have made,
Speaker 1: that this is such a difficult thing to do. Like
Speaker 1: saving a species involves so many moving pieces.
Speaker 1: So let me unpack a little why Thailand has succeeded
Speaker 1: in this case, or is succeeding. Of course, it's not
Speaker 1: the end of the story. It's not to say the
Speaker 1: situation is perfect and that there aren't many other issues with,
Speaker 1: with landscapes, with protected areas, with communities, other species. But
Speaker 1: in this western forest complex, I think what has been
Speaker 1: important is this holistic and long-term approach to environmental management
Speaker 1: with a goal in mind, which is to allow tigers to,
Speaker 1: Expand and to survive. Firstly, I think Thailand has prioritized
Speaker 1: gazetting large areas of land for protection, and then you
Speaker 1: add the other ingredients. In this case, it's scientific research.
Speaker 1: It's the species monitoring, actually knowing what animals and how
Speaker 1: many of them are out there, and that's the camera traps.
Speaker 1: Then the smart patrols, like the one I went on,
Speaker 1: and the local information campaigns.
Speaker 1: To involve local communities. So the answer I think is
Speaker 1: to have data to understand the situation. This data, if
Speaker 1: you look back even 15 years ago, it's very vague.
Speaker 1: We have rough ideas of how many tigers are out there.
Speaker 1: And then you have the, the buy-in from various groups.
Speaker 1: And I think overall, this situation is helped by the
Speaker 1: iconic nature of the tiger itself. And another expert told me, quote,
Speaker 1: There's very few iconic species or issues quite as compelling
Speaker 1: as tiger conservation.
Speaker 1: And that's very powerful and has largely been capitalized on
Speaker 1: in Thailand. These are dangerous creatures and they don't like
Speaker 1: to live with or near people generally. What considerations are
Speaker 1: there about the human-wildlife conflict? You quoted Mick William in
Speaker 1: your article saying that overall tigers coming closer into contact
Speaker 1: with humans can be very negative and we're talking about
Speaker 1: damage to property, but also loss of life, right?
Speaker 1: What protections are there then for both man and beast
Speaker 1: when tiger populations increase and they venture into where people live,
Speaker 1: because that would kind of be scary. There's definitely a,
Speaker 1: a balancing act between population numbers and where these tigers
Speaker 1: will choose to roam, because,
Speaker 1: As someone told me, the tigers don't have passports. They
Speaker 1: don't have a sense of this is the end of
Speaker 1: their boundaries. They will go where there is food, and
Speaker 1: tigers are wide roaming animals, and they will come into
Speaker 1: contact with people, and they will kill livestock. They could
Speaker 1: kill people. And we've seen some of these issues actually
Speaker 1: occurring in India and Nepal where very successful conservation has
Speaker 1: led to more human wildlife contact.
Speaker 1: That's right. So a lot of this is around the
Speaker 1: fragmentation of our natural landscapes. Are we creating corridors for
Speaker 1: wildlife to move safely and be away from humans, or
Speaker 1: are we breaking down the connectivity between forests, for example,
Speaker 1: are we building new roads? Are we building new agricultural
Speaker 1: lands that would cause tigers to come into contact with people? So.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of considerations about land management, how
Speaker 1: we gazette land in certain ways. Community forests play a
Speaker 1: big role in this, that's, they're the buffer zones between
Speaker 1: animals and people. Both are benefiting from that shared space, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of strategies and a lot of thought
Speaker 1: going into this, but you're right, it will be a
Speaker 1: consideration if these conservation programs continue to work well.
Speaker 1: If you want to read more and see some of
Speaker 1: the images of the tigers captured on camera traps throughout
Speaker 1: Mei Wong, go and check out Jack Bor's story on CNA.Asia. Ah,
Speaker 1: very kind of you. Yes, you're welcome. The videos on
Speaker 1: YouTube as well. You can check it out.
Speaker 1: OK, now it's weather time update, it's still cool in Thailand.
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. I told you it's gonna be cool for
Speaker 1: a while. Not much has changed since the last we
Speaker 1: talked about the weather in Bangkok, and you can continue
Speaker 1: to expect that. So first, let's start with Singapore, and
Speaker 1: this is based on a collection of various weather sources,
Speaker 1: including my cell phone. So in Singapore, expect rain.
Speaker 1: What, not scientific enough for you. So in Singapore.
Speaker 1: In Singapore, expect rainy days with a possible break in
Speaker 1: the clouds this Saturday. Mild temperatures won't get hotter than
Speaker 1: 32 °C. In Kuala Lumpur, you'll see a mixed bag
Speaker 1: of rain and sun as well, with similar conditions in Bangkok,
Speaker 1: where Jackboard is sunny all day, every day for the
Speaker 1: next few days, with highs of 34 °C. But yes,
Speaker 1: you know, you still get that coolish climate for now.
Speaker 1: In Hanoi, mild conditions with some cloud cover and cool breezes. Jakarta, Nusantara,
Speaker 1: very high chance of rain, rain, and more rain for
Speaker 1: the next few days. Back to you, Jack.
Speaker 1: OK, back to our quiz question. To repeat it for you,
Speaker 1: can you rank these endangered species by their estimated wild
Speaker 1: population number? The animals again, the Indo-Chinese tiger, the Siamese crocodile.
Speaker 1: The Sumatran rhino and the Sumatran orangutan.
Speaker 1: OK, so I'm going to start with the smallest population
Speaker 1: and I'm going to go with the Sumatran rhino, because
Speaker 1: you know, rhino horn poaching and all that. And then
Speaker 1: I'm going to go with the, I'm going to go
Speaker 1: with the Sumatran orangutan and then Indo-Chinese tiger, and then
Speaker 1: Siamese crocodile. OK, so.
Speaker 1: You, that's 11 is correct. 1 is correct. But you
Speaker 1: just have one out of place, which is ruining everything
Speaker 1: for you. Um, you're correct that the Sumatran rhino is
Speaker 1: the most endangered. Less than 50 now in the wild.
Speaker 1: So a precarious situation for them. The second most endangered
Speaker 1: is the Indo-Chinese tiger, that we've been talking about throughout
Speaker 1: throughout this episode. Uh.
Speaker 1: About 300. Of course all of these numbers are just
Speaker 1: rough estimates, and they change with time and with conservation,
Speaker 1: but about 300 of those.
Speaker 1: The Siamese crocodile is 3rd, only about 500 in the wild,
Speaker 1: which is,
Speaker 1: Pretty surprising given that we have just.
Speaker 1: Thousands and thousands and thousands of them in crocodile farms,
Speaker 1: but in the wild. But not in the wild. Oh
Speaker 1: my goodness, OK. Yeah. Yeah, and most of those are
Speaker 1: are in Cambodia who's been enjoying some, some conservation success
Speaker 1: with those crocodiles. And the least endangered, but still endangered
Speaker 1: is the orangutan, there's about 14,000 of those particular friendly critters. Hay, orange.
Speaker 1: Friendly critters, are there numbers going up or down, do
Speaker 1: you know?
Speaker 1: Because there was so much attention on them. There are
Speaker 1: different types of orangutans as well, like there are with rhinos, crocodiles, etc.
Speaker 1: So um don't, don't press me too too hard.
Speaker 1: OK, I won't. All right. OK. That's it for this
Speaker 1: episode of Climate Conversations. Thanks for joining us. Please give
Speaker 1: us some feedback or come and connect with us on
Speaker 1: LinkedIn if you like. We're there. We're sharing stuff all
Speaker 1: the time. And thank you for joining us. This is
Speaker 1: Lee Ling Tan. I hope you did better than I
Speaker 1: did in today's quiz. Until next week. Bye-bye. I'm Jack Board.
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to the team that put together this podcast, Ajambala,
Speaker 1: Sai Ye Win, Tiffany Ung, Janai Jahari, and Christina Roberts.