WEBVTT - The final climate conversation with host, Jaime Ho | EP 68 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.550 the following is a CNN a podcast. 0:00:03.940 --> 0:00:08.550 This is the climate conversations. I'm Jamie ho. This episode 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.850 is a special one. It's episode number 68 the last 0:00:11.850 --> 0:00:14.380 that I will host so far change, we brought in 0:00:14.380 --> 0:00:16.440 one of our past guests to ask the questions this 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.420 time to me. I remember speaking to in in september 0:00:20.420 --> 0:00:23.680 2021 she's a young activist eager to spread the message 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.560 on climate action in her own way on social media, 0:00:26.739 --> 0:00:30.360 serious messages spread in the uniquely visual way on instagram. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:33.060 So we've turned the tables and she spoke to me 0:00:33.060 --> 0:00:36.479 about my journey having these climate conversations and this was 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:37.660 our conversation. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:40.130 Hi 0:00:40.130 --> 0:00:45.390 Jamie, Welcome to the 68th episode of your own podcast 0:00:45.390 --> 0:00:47.740 and I'm very happy to be here today with you. 0:00:47.750 --> 0:00:51.470 Hi Shane. It's kind of weird, but thanks for speaking 0:00:51.470 --> 0:00:53.610 with me and asking the questions for a change 0:00:53.620 --> 0:00:56.090 today, you just have to turn off your podcast host 0:00:56.090 --> 0:00:57.660 brain and let me 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.150 Step in for me the next like 20-30 minutes and 0:01:01.150 --> 0:01:03.930 ask you questions for a change. Since this is a 0:01:03.930 --> 0:01:07.569 wrapper podcast episode of sorts. It'll be a fun time 0:01:07.569 --> 0:01:10.690 to look back at all the episodes that you've produced 0:01:10.690 --> 0:01:13.929 and it's quite a hefty number. This is 68, so 0:01:13.930 --> 0:01:16.560 that's 67. That's already been out 0:01:16.940 --> 0:01:19.750 and let's get to the bottom of all of that. Right, 0:01:19.750 --> 0:01:22.310 So I'm going to ask you some quick fire questions. 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.160 Maybe just a few, No pressure. 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.890 And the first one would be what has been the 0:01:26.890 --> 0:01:29.860 most difficult topic to cover so far. 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.550 I don't think that they have been very many difficult topics. 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.589 The interesting thing about the climate conversations is that in 0:01:37.590 --> 0:01:41.149 theory they're all kind of difficult topics because we are 0:01:41.150 --> 0:01:45.450 facing as everyone knows an existential crisis. We are trying 0:01:45.450 --> 0:01:49.309 to ramp up action and awareness and education and things 0:01:49.310 --> 0:01:51.990 like that. They're all difficult and all of them. I 0:01:51.990 --> 0:01:55.760 try to see that there are difficult conversations to be had, 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.840 but at the same time, a running theme in almost 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.960 all the podcast is that there's always some potential for 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.300 positivity and you know, action can still be done. People say, 0:02:06.300 --> 0:02:09.140 you know, we can still do it, etcetera, etcetera. And 0:02:09.139 --> 0:02:12.190 to be honest, it came through most of my conversations 0:02:12.190 --> 0:02:14.960 with younger people like you in the past and 0:02:15.139 --> 0:02:19.250 some of your friends like, and as well, right? Where 0:02:19.250 --> 0:02:22.489 we did get into quite difficult conversations, not difficult in 0:02:22.490 --> 0:02:25.549 that they were tough, but they raised difficult issues and 0:02:25.550 --> 0:02:26.660 I quite enjoyed those. 0:02:26.669 --> 0:02:29.300 It's funny you say that because I don't see myself 0:02:29.300 --> 0:02:33.160 as particularly positive from the entire situation, 0:02:33.540 --> 0:02:35.880 but that brings me back to, you know, with this 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:37.990 being one of your closing episodes, how how are you 0:02:37.990 --> 0:02:39.450 feeling about everything? 0:02:39.460 --> 0:02:42.730 It's really weird because it's come quite a long way 0:02:42.730 --> 0:02:46.269 and on certain issues, it's kind of taken a full circle, right? 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.970 And one of the first things that we spoke about belt, 0:02:49.970 --> 0:02:52.350 for example, the carbon tax right? 0:02:52.740 --> 0:02:56.700 And back in well August not last year, the year 0:02:56.700 --> 0:02:59.630 before that, we were still dealing with the $5 per 0:02:59.630 --> 0:03:02.340 ton carbon tax, right? And the people that I spoke 0:03:02.340 --> 0:03:05.800 to and myself included, we're already quite disappointed that we 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.960 had landed at that figure. And various guests have 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.079 pointed to the fact that we needed to push this 0:03:11.090 --> 0:03:14.200 up quite significantly. One of them being lewis in the 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:15.250 Mp as well. 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:17.740 So we were talking about that very early on, we 0:03:17.740 --> 0:03:19.310 were talking about, yes, it needs to go up. We're 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.230 looking at international comparisons. I tried to get into a 0:03:23.230 --> 0:03:25.839 little bit over one or two episodes as to how 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.740 we ended up at $5 when the initial indication might 0:03:28.740 --> 0:03:31.550 have been, there will be 10 to $15. And this 0:03:31.550 --> 0:03:33.310 was just a year and a half ago, right? But 0:03:33.310 --> 0:03:35.950 now we see where we've landed in the last 23 0:03:35.950 --> 0:03:38.560 weeks with the budget announcement as where it could potentially 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.910 go up to buy 2030 or so, and that really 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.640 showed the narrative and the acceleration of action has really 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.920 been quite stark in the last year. And that's quite 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.640 heartening to see that coming from the government. That has been, 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.350 I would say, I suppose a little bit reactive and 0:03:55.350 --> 0:03:58.910 has listened to people like you, hopefully, like the younger 0:03:58.910 --> 0:04:01.850 climate activists, like people like Mp louis, um and that's 0:04:01.850 --> 0:04:03.850 where we are. So it's quite 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.250 heartening to see that we've come full circle on an 0:04:06.250 --> 0:04:07.160 issue like that, 0:04:07.170 --> 0:04:09.660 that took me by surprise also. And I know that 0:04:09.660 --> 0:04:13.290 you have already covered this in the climate conversations. So 0:04:13.300 --> 0:04:17.530 people who are keen observers of such issues, you see 0:04:17.529 --> 0:04:20.469 things starting to get to where you want it to 0:04:20.470 --> 0:04:23.150 be even though where you wanted to be was like, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.320 okay, maybe five years ago, it should be here already 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:25.760 la 0:04:25.940 --> 0:04:29.370 but we're here now and let's jump into a bit 0:04:29.370 --> 0:04:33.190 more of history deep dive for yourself. So I've done 0:04:33.190 --> 0:04:37.089 some stocking. I've done all my necessary stocking and you're 0:04:37.089 --> 0:04:40.170 not a stranger to climate change. In fact you've been 0:04:40.170 --> 0:04:42.370 in it for quite some time, right? Why don't you 0:04:42.370 --> 0:04:44.859 tell us a little bit more about your background? 0:04:44.940 --> 0:04:49.980 Well, thanks for stalking. Um but just just to recap, 0:04:49.980 --> 0:04:50.460 I mean 0:04:50.540 --> 0:04:53.340 Journalism for me has been something that we lived with 0:04:53.339 --> 0:04:55.580 the last 80 odd years, right? And before that I 0:04:55.580 --> 0:04:59.980 was a foreign service officer. My last assignment there was 0:04:59.980 --> 0:05:03.740 as the climate negotiator, right? So I did the whole 0:05:03.750 --> 0:05:08.280 um cop exercise and all the international travel to get 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.060 to the cop that I attended which was in Doha. 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.790 And as you know, diplomats do very regular postings and 0:05:14.790 --> 0:05:17.200 assignments and very two or three years you get something new, 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.190 which is a fun part of the job. So that 0:05:19.190 --> 0:05:21.280 was a real education for me as well. It was 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.490 intense and in those 1.5 years that I did that 0:05:24.490 --> 0:05:26.260 it's incredible how much I learned 0:05:26.339 --> 0:05:29.740 which I tried to bring to this current role in 0:05:29.740 --> 0:05:32.520 hosting this podcast and also looking after a little bit 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:38.350 of overall climate change coverage, but obviously coming from the 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.630 sort of background as a climate negotiator to be frank 0:05:41.630 --> 0:05:43.820 with you after I had done that and then in 0:05:43.820 --> 0:05:45.490 my process that I said, oh my God, is this 0:05:45.490 --> 0:05:49.080 what it's about? Everyone arguing about comin here and a 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.729 full stop there and this word versus that word is 0:05:51.730 --> 0:05:54.120 this really what climate action is about. And there were 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.060 times when you really felt kind of discouraged, 0:05:57.140 --> 0:06:00.039 oh, goodness gracious. We go from one year to another 0:06:00.050 --> 0:06:03.650 just working on a document and then one document and 0:06:03.650 --> 0:06:07.210 I spoke to Alex Sharma recently, he just says right, 0:06:07.220 --> 0:06:10.550 these are just collections of words until they become real action. 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.700 That's when it really starts. So even arguing about words 0:06:13.700 --> 0:06:18.810 and negotiating words on something like climate change was challenging. 0:06:18.820 --> 0:06:21.529 But you know, I suppose that's where it has to start, 0:06:21.529 --> 0:06:23.360 that there is no other alternative to it 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:28.420 in terms of coordinated international action. So, on the one hand, yes, 0:06:28.420 --> 0:06:31.530 that was my past life. But one of the more 0:06:31.540 --> 0:06:34.390 interesting things therefore, that I saw and I have been 0:06:34.390 --> 0:06:38.210 seeing more since I left, that was how that complements 0:06:38.220 --> 0:06:42.110 over all other action that countries by themselves can take 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:46.909 in concept between government, business and Ngos and activists like 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.760 young people like you guys and that is really what 0:06:50.140 --> 0:06:53.029 it's encouraging. So for me, I think again, it's been 0:06:53.029 --> 0:06:56.690 a great experience doing that in my past life, One 0:06:56.700 --> 0:06:58.820 element of it. And they're now seeing it here and 0:06:58.820 --> 0:07:00.550 then in my own little way 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.219 now being able to advocate a little bit more as well. 0:07:04.230 --> 0:07:07.080 You know, when you're a diplomat, you're usually sort of 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.930 representing a national interest and the challenging part about that 0:07:10.940 --> 0:07:13.410 is that you have to balance the national interest with 0:07:13.410 --> 0:07:13.660 what 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:18.050 internationally is expected and what internationally can be done. And 0:07:18.050 --> 0:07:19.660 the three of them don't always 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.090 match. There are always these junctions between what's realistic, what 0:07:23.090 --> 0:07:25.950 needs to be done and what nationally can be done to. Right? 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.560 So yeah, it's been a fun ride. Really enjoyed that. 0:07:29.570 --> 0:07:33.000 Being able now to have taken the last 4.5 years 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.270 to advocate again for climate action through this podcast has 0:07:36.270 --> 0:07:36.810 been great 0:07:36.820 --> 0:07:41.790 as your own perspectives on climate change change as you become, 0:07:41.790 --> 0:07:45.270 you know, chief editor at C. N. A. Digital, you know, 0:07:45.270 --> 0:07:45.660 like 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.780 has there been any big shifts in your own personalized 0:07:49.780 --> 0:07:52.380 about how you view what can be done about climate change? 0:07:52.390 --> 0:07:56.550 Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. One of the things which I could 0:07:56.550 --> 0:08:01.050 never understand about the climate negotiations first, right, was all 0:08:01.050 --> 0:08:04.770 the travel that went behind it, you know? And because unlike, 0:08:04.770 --> 0:08:06.770 let's say the U. N. Or the W. H. O. 0:08:06.770 --> 0:08:08.800 The W. T. O. There's no permanent home for the 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.110 climate negotiations. So people travel a lot. You traveled to 0:08:12.110 --> 0:08:14.230 a cop to travel to a pre cop which is 0:08:14.230 --> 0:08:16.870 the meeting before cop. You traveled to this half yearly 0:08:16.870 --> 0:08:19.690 meetings that bond and in between people travel as well. 0:08:19.690 --> 0:08:23.580 And I'm like why hasn't someone mentioned the carbon footprint before? 0:08:23.590 --> 0:08:26.440 But that got me a bit perplexed after a while. 0:08:26.450 --> 0:08:28.840 I dealt with it in my own little way. But 0:08:28.850 --> 0:08:34.060 now having come out and spoken to so many people, 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.250 one of the biggest things for me now is sort 0:08:37.250 --> 0:08:38.559 of a global level 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.490 which is related to all the travel is I think 0:08:41.500 --> 0:08:43.839 we haven't and I've come to understand this even more 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.160 and more talking to younger people, especially we haven't come 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.670 to grips with how we are consuming as human beings, 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:54.790 our overall consumption and the trend towards using the resources 0:08:54.790 --> 0:08:57.010 that we do and it's in everything that we do. 0:08:57.020 --> 0:08:59.960 And I do realize now that it is so fundamental 0:08:59.960 --> 0:09:02.810 to our existence, right. Whether it's the clothes we wear, 0:09:02.809 --> 0:09:05.349 the food, we eat, the cars we drive, the homes 0:09:05.350 --> 0:09:06.260 we build, 0:09:06.340 --> 0:09:09.940 everything is about consumption. And until we realize that if 0:09:09.940 --> 0:09:13.439 we are serious about addressing not just the issue of 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:17.080 climate change, but overall sustainability, we need to really come 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.520 to grips with. Is it always an upward trend in 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.979 terms of how much we consume as a civilization. I 0:09:22.990 --> 0:09:24.780 don't make it sound like it's bigger than it is. 0:09:24.790 --> 0:09:27.460 But I think that's the truth that always one problem 0:09:27.470 --> 0:09:29.050 can be solved just by 0:09:29.140 --> 0:09:33.060 creating something else and consuming more of something else? I 0:09:33.059 --> 0:09:35.710 wish and I hope that you know increasingly we as 0:09:35.710 --> 0:09:39.190 a people can talk about that a bit more. That's 0:09:39.190 --> 0:09:41.970 something which I would suppose being able to learn given 0:09:41.970 --> 0:09:44.240 my perch here as chief editor and also hosting this 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:45.059 podcast and 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.920 being a parent and talking to as I said, I 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.780 always say this young people like you you do realize 0:09:50.780 --> 0:09:53.670 I think we do need a reckoning of thoughts and 0:09:53.670 --> 0:09:56.380 I'm glad that I think the younger folks have been 0:09:56.380 --> 0:09:58.000 pushing that more than us. 0:09:58.010 --> 0:10:01.510 Yeah and I really like what you said about the 0:10:01.510 --> 0:10:04.060 fact that it's almost like we haven't re consult the 0:10:04.059 --> 0:10:06.459 climate crisis with our own day today 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.710 or even for us who do that day today there 0:10:08.710 --> 0:10:12.530 is a very weird cognitive dissonance that even as I 0:10:12.530 --> 0:10:15.949 reduce my plastic today, the world is still burning but 0:10:15.950 --> 0:10:18.390 at the same time you can't give that up. And 0:10:18.390 --> 0:10:21.050 then there are people flying all over the world for U. N. 0:10:21.050 --> 0:10:25.800 Conferences of climate change and there's just so many hypocrisy 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.480 is that you are also made to come to terms 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.060 with that. Speaking about conversations that you're driving, there are 0:10:32.059 --> 0:10:35.959 questions for this podcast that I have gathered from your 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:37.959 past guests from your staff 0:10:38.340 --> 0:10:41.340 and I think one that asked this is from Melissa 0:10:41.340 --> 0:10:42.359 liu who is a past 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:43.580 guest for a 0:10:43.590 --> 0:10:45.449 freak. Okay. 0:10:45.460 --> 0:10:46.240 she 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.980 asked what drives you in this world and what's the 0:10:49.980 --> 0:10:54.219 genesis of something like the climate conversations, especially what with 0:10:54.220 --> 0:10:55.280 your experience 0:10:55.290 --> 0:10:59.110 at some point, Mediacorp and Sienna decided quite rightly that 0:10:59.110 --> 0:11:00.060 they wanted to put 0:11:00.140 --> 0:11:03.309 climate change and sustainability as a real corporate as well 0:11:03.309 --> 0:11:07.260 as editorial area of focus. So we built a vertical 0:11:07.260 --> 0:11:09.760 on our website, our colleagues on the broadcast side of 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.880 the house is so devoted resources to propping their coverage 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:14.260 quite significantly. 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.939 It is one of those weird coincidences in life that 0:11:16.940 --> 0:11:19.360 they had me staying sitting around and they say, hey 0:11:19.370 --> 0:11:21.660 this is right up your alley, why didn't you do this? 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.479 So what drives me is the fact that it's a 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.830 different kind of perch right? When you were sitting as 0:11:26.830 --> 0:11:30.160 a climate negotiator, you had a little perch, not the 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.739 most influential so to speak, in that yeah, you you 0:11:33.740 --> 0:11:36.620 are there, you have a job to do. Sometimes it 0:11:36.620 --> 0:11:39.590 doesn't sit well with you as a person, sometimes it does, 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:40.350 but it is 0:11:40.540 --> 0:11:43.750 that is a smaller universe. And now where I am, 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:45.880 I do feel that I am fortunate to have had 0:11:45.890 --> 0:11:48.740 that bigger purge. So what drives me is really to 0:11:48.740 --> 0:11:51.479 be able to at least help work with my guests to, 0:11:51.490 --> 0:11:54.309 if they can't answer at least let's ask the questions together, 0:11:54.309 --> 0:11:56.410 the harder questions about the things that we need to 0:11:56.410 --> 0:12:00.190 do from the big actions to the smaller ones. And 0:12:00.190 --> 0:12:03.110 one of the things that drives me really is the 0:12:03.110 --> 0:12:05.990 need for us to really always focus on the big 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:06.460 picture 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.000 at the level of government, at the level of the 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.850 big Corporates. And let's not get too distracted by the 0:12:13.850 --> 0:12:18.429 micro actions. I think the micro actions are needed amongst individuals, 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:22.660 but sometimes they can be a substitute for real action. Yes, 0:12:22.660 --> 0:12:25.450 plastic bag bans are good. Using a fewer, plastic bags 0:12:25.460 --> 0:12:26.060 are good 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:30.400 using two less straws a day is good. But those, 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.850 I characterize them as micro actions, which pushed the extreme 0:12:33.850 --> 0:12:38.980 sometimes distract and delay real action. So that has been 0:12:38.980 --> 0:12:41.000 a running theme for me that drives me too. I'm 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.179 a firm believer in big problems, need big actions and 0:12:45.179 --> 0:12:45.349 the 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.480 biggest people who need to and can act our governments 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.410 and big corporations. So that is what's driven me and 0:12:51.410 --> 0:12:53.610 maybe that will drive me more in the coming years 0:12:53.610 --> 0:12:54.070 to 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:55.820 there. That makes a lot of sense. And I think 0:12:55.820 --> 0:12:58.090 that's a perennial theme. There are a lot of activists 0:12:58.090 --> 0:13:01.050 also talked about right, like stop distracting us with all these, 0:13:01.059 --> 0:13:03.880 every individual can take action of course you can. But 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.490 some individuals are more powerful than others. For example, when 0:13:07.490 --> 0:13:10.590 the same node, right has the podcast achieved what you 0:13:10.590 --> 0:13:11.560 set out to do? 0:13:11.940 --> 0:13:15.950 I'll be realistic, obviously can't do very much at the 0:13:15.950 --> 0:13:18.589 very least I would have hoped that it has become 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.390 one source for people in Singapore to go to, to 0:13:22.390 --> 0:13:24.710 listen to things and to learn a little bit more 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.260 about the issues that matter to them if they're interested 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.580 in the areas of climate change and sustainability, there's always 0:13:30.580 --> 0:13:32.360 a danger of preaching to the converted, 0:13:32.540 --> 0:13:35.069 the people who already listen, the people who are already 0:13:35.070 --> 0:13:38.850 interested are interested and are taking action. So, the challenge 0:13:38.850 --> 0:13:40.959 for me has always been whether or not we can 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:45.160 grow this beyond just the interested people like me and you, 0:13:45.170 --> 0:13:49.660 to the students, to other general listeners who can suddenly 0:13:49.660 --> 0:13:50.860 find that, yes, you know, 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.630 we're talking about climate change in the general enough manner, 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.309 but also specific enough that they learn a little bit 0:13:56.309 --> 0:13:59.330 more about that as to whether we've achieved that. I 0:13:59.330 --> 0:14:03.040 think so, we aren't so influential. Climate change is one 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.490 of those weird issues where people, I'm talking about the 0:14:05.490 --> 0:14:08.000 general public like to say that they're interested like to 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.330 say that they would like to learn more. But I 0:14:10.330 --> 0:14:11.760 think that the truth is that 0:14:11.940 --> 0:14:13.980 there's so much news out there on a day to 0:14:13.980 --> 0:14:17.250 day basis, So much news and infotainment 0:14:17.540 --> 0:14:20.770 and other distractions that I wouldn't be surprised if sometimes 0:14:20.770 --> 0:14:24.800 climate change news falls away down the list of priorities 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.370 on what they read and watch and listen to, but 0:14:27.380 --> 0:14:30.450 every little step helps. And I think we've done a 0:14:30.450 --> 0:14:32.170 little bit in the right direction. 0:14:32.180 --> 0:14:36.760 These episodes have far ranging reach, especially as students 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.020 or use who are starting out in this space and 0:14:40.020 --> 0:14:42.430 really don't know what to read and where to begin, right? 0:14:42.430 --> 0:14:44.150 Like you really don't find a lot of 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:49.090 Singapore specific or regional specific content out there. And I 0:14:49.090 --> 0:14:51.930 would say that podcast like TCC does a very good 0:14:51.930 --> 0:14:54.440 job at bringing the right people to the table and 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.710 here is 20 minutes of your time taking on your 0:14:57.710 --> 0:15:00.500 commute to school and get up to date. So I 0:15:00.500 --> 0:15:03.260 would say, yeah, that has been fantastic 0:15:03.340 --> 0:15:06.230 and it's something that I would recommend to peers or 0:15:06.230 --> 0:15:08.540 two juniors who are just starting out. 0:15:08.550 --> 0:15:14.350 We'll be right back after a quick break. Climate conversations 0:15:14.350 --> 0:15:20.280 has been supported by Sabina Jurong Building cities, shaping lives. Now, 0:15:20.290 --> 0:15:21.460 back to our conversation, 0:15:21.940 --> 0:15:24.470 I'm just curious, has there been an episode that you 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.880 kept on the back burner for a very long time 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:28.150 that you wish you produced 0:15:28.540 --> 0:15:33.320 well to my producers who helped me put this podcast together, 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.300 Crispino and Aaron and for this scrolling, I would really 0:15:37.300 --> 0:15:42.280 have liked to have spoken to al gore, but you know, 0:15:42.290 --> 0:15:45.980 things happen and we never really got down to al gore, 0:15:45.990 --> 0:15:48.060 but it would have been great to talk to him. 0:15:48.140 --> 0:15:50.360 He's one of those characters who, 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.530 it's not beyond the realms of possibility, but still very, 0:15:53.530 --> 0:15:57.170 very difficult. He obviously has a gazillion other things to do, 0:15:57.180 --> 0:16:00.960 but he is like the original voice, so to speak, 0:16:00.970 --> 0:16:04.170 who exploded climate change into the public perception right? So 0:16:04.170 --> 0:16:07.070 many years ago, it would be great to get him 0:16:07.070 --> 0:16:09.250 to talk about his own journey 0:16:09.340 --> 0:16:13.150 from those first few presentations which became a movie which 0:16:13.150 --> 0:16:14.650 became a movement, right? 0:16:14.740 --> 0:16:16.660 So I would have loved to have spoken to him 0:16:16.670 --> 0:16:19.060 and I joke with some of my younger colleagues as 0:16:19.060 --> 0:16:21.160 well that you know, why didn't they get me leo 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.870 Dicaprio as well? I would have loved to have spoken 0:16:23.870 --> 0:16:26.940 with him. So yeah, those two probably would have, the 0:16:26.940 --> 0:16:28.060 top of my list 0:16:28.070 --> 0:16:30.740 will be a Moonshot guests for TCC 0:16:30.750 --> 0:16:34.660 Yeah, but you know, we are realistic singaporeans. 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.860 But what is your favorite episode so far then, 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.400 funnily enough to comments ago that you made made me remember. 0:16:42.410 --> 0:16:45.190 And really the favorite episode was when I spoke to 0:16:45.190 --> 0:16:48.860 to secondary school students and their teacher. And it was 0:16:48.860 --> 0:16:52.990 quite amazing because on the one hand we speak about 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:57.070 micro actions, but at the same time the micro actions 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:57.560 of 0:16:57.740 --> 0:17:01.290 the younger generation like them, 15, 16 year olds and 0:17:01.290 --> 0:17:04.240 you can see that they really know quite a lot, 0:17:04.250 --> 0:17:06.770 you really know that being teenagers, the actions that they 0:17:06.770 --> 0:17:10.850 take will probably be small, but they form the basis that, 0:17:10.850 --> 0:17:13.790 you know that these people when they become older and 0:17:13.790 --> 0:17:17.410 they become university students, but they become young adults, you 0:17:17.410 --> 0:17:19.820 know that they will carry on and these micro actions 0:17:19.820 --> 0:17:22.460 will become bigger and you can sense that 0:17:22.740 --> 0:17:25.469 even if they won't become activists with the capital a 0:17:25.470 --> 0:17:28.590 they will become activists with a small a and push. Right? 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.639 So I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed listening to 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.270 the teacher who was explaining how she imbued them with 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.530 sustainability the actions they can take as a school, making 0:17:39.530 --> 0:17:43.389 sure that these trends and issues transcended specific subjects. I 0:17:43.390 --> 0:17:45.800 mean it's not geography is not signed specifically and she 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.020 was explaining that, yeah, they try and spread it out 0:17:48.020 --> 0:17:51.369 through as many formal subjects as possible. So that was really, 0:17:51.369 --> 0:17:54.850 really fun speaking to the two Syrians and there was 0:17:54.859 --> 0:17:57.709 quite a change from all the serious other podcasts that 0:17:57.710 --> 0:17:58.460 we've done. 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:00.920 I enjoyed that really a lot. I don't know. I 0:18:00.930 --> 0:18:03.990 would have hoped that they would have told their valuable students. Hey, 0:18:03.990 --> 0:18:05.709 I was on a podcast. Go listen to me. But 0:18:05.710 --> 0:18:07.320 I don't know if that happened because, you know, I'm 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.460 not sure how many 14 and 15 year olds listen 0:18:09.460 --> 0:18:12.649 to podcasts these days, but at the very least adults 0:18:12.650 --> 0:18:15.250 who listen to them should have come away with a 0:18:15.250 --> 0:18:16.850 different message as well. That hey, 0:18:16.940 --> 0:18:19.970 There are 1415 year olds out there who are interested 0:18:19.980 --> 0:18:22.350 and will be pushing all of us adults to do 0:18:22.350 --> 0:18:24.080 more and more down the line. Right. 0:18:24.090 --> 0:18:26.930 That's true. I really like that you said that because 0:18:26.940 --> 0:18:30.100 I wouldn't be surprised if they're listening to your podcast. 0:18:30.109 --> 0:18:32.800 Maybe if you guys are on Tiktok more then, you know, 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.320 they will, they will learn it from. 0:18:34.330 --> 0:18:38.060 Yeah, well, that's another conversation. 0:18:38.140 --> 0:18:40.920 Let's see when they become 20 year olds and can 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.659 take action whether or not and how they do it 0:18:43.660 --> 0:18:45.290 and where they get their information from. 0:18:45.300 --> 0:18:49.919 So speaking about young people, right as a young person myself, 0:18:49.930 --> 0:18:50.770 I 0:18:51.140 --> 0:18:53.880 have a long way to go on this planet and 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.270 there is still a long time for me to live. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.550 And this question is actually from one of your previous guests, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:05.010 dr Winston chao and also Christina, if I'm not wrong. 0:19:05.020 --> 0:19:09.030 So the question goes, so Jamie, do you really think 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:09.859 we are screwed? 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.520 And how much do you really have? 0:19:12.530 --> 0:19:15.710 I'm not surprised that this question came from wisdom and Christina. 0:19:15.710 --> 0:19:18.969 I mean as we sit behind our screens and as 0:19:18.970 --> 0:19:22.300 we chat, they know me and they know my view 0:19:22.300 --> 0:19:24.790 and how I've said University of Commerce, we're screwed on 0:19:24.790 --> 0:19:27.760 several occasions. Yes and no, okay. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.199