1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,510 Speaker 1: This is a C. N. A. 2 00:00:01,510 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 2: Podcast. 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,790 Speaker 1: I have a confession to make this episode was really 4 00:00:16,790 --> 00:00:18,030 Speaker 1: tough to put together 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,930 Speaker 1: What you heard. There was a mother, she just lost 6 00:00:21,930 --> 00:00:25,349 Speaker 1: her child in the Thailand preschool murders and you don't 7 00:00:25,350 --> 00:00:28,100 Speaker 1: need to understand what she was saying to hear the 8 00:00:28,110 --> 00:00:33,729 Speaker 1: aching in her voice. 37 people including 22 Children were 9 00:00:33,729 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: killed during the three hour rampage. 10 00:00:36,820 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: The attacker later killed his girlfriend, her son and himself 11 00:00:42,229 --> 00:00:45,370 Speaker 1: Being a journalist for 15 years. I've learned to keep 12 00:00:45,370 --> 00:00:49,210 Speaker 1: headlines out of my heart, just report the facts. But 13 00:00:49,210 --> 00:00:50,330 Speaker 1: this one was different. 14 00:00:51,729 --> 00:00:52,659 Speaker 1: We give her the 15 00:01:09,020 --> 00:01:12,209 Speaker 1: I'm a young mother, I have a daughter the same 16 00:01:12,220 --> 00:01:15,060 Speaker 1: age as many of those who were massacred in that 17 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:16,090 Speaker 1: thai preschool. 18 00:01:17,130 --> 00:01:21,380 Speaker 1: She takes afternoon naps just like those Children who are 19 00:01:21,380 --> 00:01:24,540 Speaker 1: inside that single story pastel pink building 20 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,289 Speaker 1: that afternoon under a bright blue sky. A man armed 21 00:01:29,290 --> 00:01:32,470 Speaker 1: with a large knife and a gun entered and ended 22 00:01:32,470 --> 00:01:34,300 Speaker 1: their lives as they slept. 23 00:01:35,050 --> 00:01:38,310 Speaker 1: This one really hit me and my colleagues hard. 24 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:43,830 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to CNN correspondent. I'm your host, Teresa Tang. 25 00:01:44,060 --> 00:01:47,460 Speaker 1: This is the podcast where our network of correspondence shine 26 00:01:47,460 --> 00:01:50,190 Speaker 1: a light on stories from wherever they are in the world, 27 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,910 Speaker 1: bringing you behind and beyond the headlines. 28 00:01:54,110 --> 00:01:57,350 Speaker 1: I've only had to sit behind my computer to put 29 00:01:57,350 --> 00:02:01,300 Speaker 1: this podcast together. But are indo china correspondent May wong 30 00:02:01,310 --> 00:02:05,070 Speaker 1: her assistant and her cameraman were on the ground soon 31 00:02:05,070 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: after the story broke. 32 00:02:07,030 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: Have you ever wondered how challenging it is to cover 33 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:11,010 Speaker 1: tragedy 34 00:02:11,669 --> 00:02:12,890 Speaker 1: She's going to tell us 35 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,139 Speaker 1: may welcome and thank you so much for joining me today. 36 00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:20,230 Speaker 1: You are a seasoned journalist. 37 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:21,049 Speaker 2: But sadly 38 00:02:21,050 --> 00:02:25,989 Speaker 1: stories involving misery and misfortune are not unfamiliar. Talk me 39 00:02:25,990 --> 00:02:29,329 Speaker 1: through how this story was different. You saw the breaking 40 00:02:29,330 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: news alert, what went through your mind? 41 00:02:31,930 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 2: This story was extremely different because it involved Children. It 42 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,670 Speaker 2: involved a child care center. Obviously when it happened the 43 00:02:39,669 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: information was really slow in coming in because it happened 44 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,429 Speaker 2: in a different province. I'm based here in Bangkok. That 45 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,850 Speaker 2: incident happened in a different province about 46 00:02:48,860 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: eight hours drive by road. So think about the fact 47 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,420 Speaker 2: that it is going to be slow in terms of 48 00:02:54,419 --> 00:02:58,830 Speaker 2: getting all the details, but slowly. Surely all the information 49 00:02:58,830 --> 00:03:02,290 Speaker 2: started to trickle in and that's when the numbers, in 50 00:03:02,290 --> 00:03:05,780 Speaker 2: terms of the victims started to climb very, very quickly. 51 00:03:06,050 --> 00:03:10,020 Speaker 2: And obviously because it involved Children at such a large 52 00:03:10,020 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: number that really set the alarm bells ringing and obviously 53 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,750 Speaker 2: the journalism instinct kicked in to say, hang on a second, 54 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,610 Speaker 2: this is going to be big and I have to 55 00:03:18,610 --> 00:03:21,230 Speaker 2: be there for it. So we scramble very quickly 56 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,339 Speaker 2: to find out how to get to that site. What 57 00:03:23,340 --> 00:03:25,299 Speaker 2: was the fastest way to get there. What were the 58 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:29,210 Speaker 2: possibilities of getting there as supposed to by road? It 59 00:03:29,210 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: was eight hours. So we decided to look for flights 60 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,030 Speaker 2: and after that it was not as easy. It's not 61 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,860 Speaker 2: the fact that you land and then that's it, you 62 00:03:37,860 --> 00:03:40,790 Speaker 2: have to get to the airport land and then take 63 00:03:40,790 --> 00:03:43,140 Speaker 2: a two hour drive or a one hour drive to 64 00:03:43,140 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: the actual site 65 00:03:44,450 --> 00:03:48,430 Speaker 1: as more details emerged. So did more images of where 66 00:03:48,430 --> 00:03:51,010 Speaker 1: this took place. And for me when I saw the 67 00:03:51,010 --> 00:03:53,660 Speaker 1: outside of the nursery for the first time, I was 68 00:03:53,660 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: struck by the shoe rack of all things. If you 69 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,500 Speaker 1: look just outside the entrance of the preschool, there is 70 00:03:59,510 --> 00:04:02,980 Speaker 1: a cube shoe rack, rainbow colored cubbies and you can 71 00:04:02,980 --> 00:04:06,070 Speaker 1: see small pairs of shoes belonging to the Children who 72 00:04:06,070 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: were inside and they look like something that 73 00:04:08,730 --> 00:04:11,310 Speaker 1: my own daughter would wear. Which was why that image 74 00:04:11,310 --> 00:04:14,410 Speaker 1: was so poignant and has stayed with me. What image 75 00:04:14,420 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: struck you and your crew given it was the first 76 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,780 Speaker 1: time that some of them had covered such a traumatic event. 77 00:04:21,900 --> 00:04:24,690 Speaker 2: I think at that moment you don't really want to 78 00:04:24,690 --> 00:04:28,250 Speaker 2: let anything affect you professionally simply because you're there to 79 00:04:28,250 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: do a job. Yes. You have to be very sensitive 80 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: about it. But you can't think too much about it 81 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,770 Speaker 2: as well because you need to be there to gather 82 00:04:36,770 --> 00:04:39,830 Speaker 2: the facts. What are the details of the story? What happened? 83 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,610 Speaker 2: Is the gunmen still around where the parents where the 84 00:04:43,610 --> 00:04:47,250 Speaker 2: bodies of the victims. That's when you really have to 85 00:04:47,260 --> 00:04:50,390 Speaker 2: get down to the A two B's to c's to 86 00:04:50,390 --> 00:04:50,630 Speaker 2: figure 87 00:04:50,735 --> 00:04:53,815 Speaker 2: out exactly how are you going to tell the story 88 00:04:53,815 --> 00:04:57,435 Speaker 2: what is important here and not to be clouded by 89 00:04:57,435 --> 00:05:01,145 Speaker 2: your emotions to be honest with you. Obviously later on 90 00:05:01,145 --> 00:05:04,315 Speaker 2: when you have a moment to take a look around 91 00:05:04,325 --> 00:05:07,905 Speaker 2: and look at the shoe racks as you mentioned earlier 92 00:05:07,915 --> 00:05:11,055 Speaker 2: and the little shoes that were left behind because we're 93 00:05:11,055 --> 00:05:13,224 Speaker 2: not allowed to go into the child care center, it 94 00:05:13,225 --> 00:05:16,485 Speaker 2: was cordoned off but outside as well. When I arrived 95 00:05:16,485 --> 00:05:19,385 Speaker 2: there on thursday evening, on the day of the shooting, 96 00:05:19,630 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: there was a small little table with mini chairs that 97 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,410 Speaker 2: are set up outside in the courtyard. So obviously you 98 00:05:26,420 --> 00:05:28,580 Speaker 2: can just imagine that that would be a place where 99 00:05:28,580 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: the kids would go and sit down when they get 100 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,490 Speaker 2: there in the morning. Perhaps have breakfast outside as well 101 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:37,950 Speaker 2: or when they have a yard time during their playtime 102 00:05:37,950 --> 00:05:41,330 Speaker 2: to be seated outside. So these are images that are 103 00:05:41,330 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: very difficult to just cast aside. 104 00:05:43,495 --> 00:05:46,085 Speaker 2: But unfortunately as part of the job you need to 105 00:05:46,085 --> 00:05:50,065 Speaker 2: do more importantly as well, when you get to that location, 106 00:05:50,075 --> 00:05:53,635 Speaker 2: I noticed how quiet it was, how calm it was 107 00:05:53,635 --> 00:05:56,025 Speaker 2: at that moment because by the time we got there, 108 00:05:56,035 --> 00:05:58,795 Speaker 2: it was pretty late at night. The bodies had been 109 00:05:58,795 --> 00:06:02,305 Speaker 2: removed from the child care center and it was headed 110 00:06:02,315 --> 00:06:06,645 Speaker 2: to the forensics for autopsies to be done. We didn't 111 00:06:06,645 --> 00:06:07,344 Speaker 2: go there. We 112 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,429 Speaker 2: stuck at the childcare center because we figured that that 113 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,190 Speaker 2: would be the command center. And true enough, that's where 114 00:06:13,190 --> 00:06:15,779 Speaker 2: all the officials were gathered. They had set up a 115 00:06:15,790 --> 00:06:21,089 Speaker 2: command center to coordinate efforts and to coordinate information over 116 00:06:21,089 --> 00:06:22,810 Speaker 2: there as well. I got a chance to speak to 117 00:06:22,810 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: some of the officials who actually work in that municipal office. 118 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,410 Speaker 2: I spoke to some of them and obviously it was 119 00:06:29,410 --> 00:06:31,210 Speaker 2: tough to even approach them 120 00:06:31,225 --> 00:06:33,675 Speaker 2: simply because a lot of them were in a daze. 121 00:06:33,675 --> 00:06:37,695 Speaker 2: They were just sitting there trying to, I guess, compose themselves. 122 00:06:37,695 --> 00:06:40,415 Speaker 2: And also you can tell that they've been crying for 123 00:06:40,425 --> 00:06:44,354 Speaker 2: hours because their eyes were all red. They look exhausted 124 00:06:44,365 --> 00:06:48,555 Speaker 2: and I didn't want to go ahead and trigger another 125 00:06:48,555 --> 00:06:51,985 Speaker 2: round of emotions for them. But again, I had to 126 00:06:51,985 --> 00:06:55,075 Speaker 2: do my job. I had to ask the difficult questions. 127 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,300 Speaker 1: One skill that you have honed throughout your career is 128 00:07:00,310 --> 00:07:03,740 Speaker 1: fact gathering. But a story like this really requires you 129 00:07:03,740 --> 00:07:06,340 Speaker 1: to go beyond that. As you say, you had to 130 00:07:06,339 --> 00:07:10,429 Speaker 1: approach officials, you had to approach grieving family members who 131 00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:14,980 Speaker 1: arguably just experienced the worst day of their lives. How 132 00:07:14,980 --> 00:07:18,110 Speaker 1: do you go about approaching these families? 133 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,030 Speaker 2: It's never an easy task. And I've done a lot 134 00:07:22,030 --> 00:07:26,470 Speaker 2: of horrific stories. I've covered plane crashes. I've seen dead bodies, 135 00:07:26,470 --> 00:07:30,070 Speaker 2: dismembered bodies, rotting corpses. I've seen all of that, but 136 00:07:30,070 --> 00:07:33,910 Speaker 2: this one really, really strikes a chord simply because it 137 00:07:33,910 --> 00:07:37,450 Speaker 2: involves Children and not just one or two, but we're 138 00:07:37,450 --> 00:07:41,430 Speaker 2: talking about more than 20 young ones between the ages 139 00:07:41,430 --> 00:07:45,230 Speaker 2: of two and five. So it tugs at your heartstrings 140 00:07:45,230 --> 00:07:48,110 Speaker 2: for the fact that all these Children think about what 141 00:07:48,110 --> 00:07:49,060 Speaker 2: they were going through, 142 00:07:49,082 --> 00:07:52,422 Speaker 2: think about how scared they could possibly have been. And 143 00:07:52,422 --> 00:07:57,452 Speaker 2: obviously approaching parents, grandparents, uncles, aunties was a very, very 144 00:07:57,452 --> 00:08:00,792 Speaker 2: difficult job because a lot of them by the next 145 00:08:00,792 --> 00:08:04,322 Speaker 2: morning they had gathered back at the command center after 146 00:08:04,322 --> 00:08:06,852 Speaker 2: they had left the hospital because they could no longer 147 00:08:06,852 --> 00:08:10,012 Speaker 2: see the bodies. They had to go through autopsies. And 148 00:08:10,012 --> 00:08:12,682 Speaker 2: so when the parents were gathered at the command center, 149 00:08:12,682 --> 00:08:16,312 Speaker 2: just in front of the child care center, it was 150 00:08:16,312 --> 00:08:18,902 Speaker 2: just a whole of weeping song. 151 00:08:18,924 --> 00:08:23,184 Speaker 2: You could hear it echo throughout this entire open air hall. 152 00:08:23,194 --> 00:08:26,994 Speaker 2: And how do you even think about approaching anyone? So 153 00:08:26,994 --> 00:08:30,434 Speaker 2: obviously you had to compose yourself, stand to the sidelines 154 00:08:30,434 --> 00:08:33,253 Speaker 2: and watch and see when might be a good time 155 00:08:33,264 --> 00:08:35,804 Speaker 2: to just slowly move forward. When might be a good 156 00:08:35,804 --> 00:08:39,954 Speaker 2: time to perhaps ask this person not. How do you feel? 157 00:08:39,953 --> 00:08:43,934 Speaker 2: Because that's an absolute no no question by a journalist 158 00:08:43,934 --> 00:08:47,054 Speaker 2: to a person who has suffered such a loss. But 159 00:08:47,054 --> 00:08:48,744 Speaker 2: more of tell me how 160 00:08:48,766 --> 00:08:51,936 Speaker 2: how special this child was. When was the last time 161 00:08:51,946 --> 00:08:56,006 Speaker 2: you actually spoke to this child? And what was he 162 00:08:56,016 --> 00:08:59,366 Speaker 2: or she saying to you? These are very sensitive questions. 163 00:08:59,366 --> 00:09:02,956 Speaker 2: And obviously I don't mean to probe. I know that 164 00:09:02,966 --> 00:09:05,436 Speaker 2: if you had lost someone, the last thing you want 165 00:09:05,436 --> 00:09:09,155 Speaker 2: to have its prying eyes of the media or shoving 166 00:09:09,155 --> 00:09:11,996 Speaker 2: the camera up into your face. So I made sure 167 00:09:11,996 --> 00:09:15,736 Speaker 2: that for one I kept a very good distance from them. 168 00:09:15,746 --> 00:09:18,610 Speaker 2: I only approached them and I felt it was 169 00:09:18,809 --> 00:09:22,220 Speaker 2: a good time and all this would be based on instinct. 170 00:09:22,230 --> 00:09:26,270 Speaker 2: And finally, I also felt that if they didn't want 171 00:09:26,270 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 2: to talk to me I would just walk away. I 172 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,420 Speaker 2: would never press on or asked them repeatedly. I only 173 00:09:32,420 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: spoke to the ones who wanted to speak to me 174 00:09:35,010 --> 00:09:37,329 Speaker 2: and many times, to be honest with you, they want 175 00:09:37,330 --> 00:09:40,309 Speaker 2: to talk. A lot of them actually poured their hearts 176 00:09:40,309 --> 00:09:42,809 Speaker 2: out and one grandma even showed me his 177 00:09:42,820 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 2: favorite toys. She brought a little musical keyboard. So all 178 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,550 Speaker 2: these are very poignant moments. It's so difficult to kind 179 00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:53,579 Speaker 2: of hold back your emotions as well because it's not 180 00:09:53,580 --> 00:09:56,890 Speaker 2: about you losing someone is them losing someone. But to 181 00:09:56,890 --> 00:09:59,390 Speaker 2: be honest with you it felt like I had lost 182 00:09:59,390 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 2: someone as well. 183 00:10:00,570 --> 00:10:03,339 Speaker 1: Oh may I'm struggling here. That's um 184 00:10:04,330 --> 00:10:07,059 Speaker 1: that's a really tough situation to be in. And I 185 00:10:07,059 --> 00:10:09,710 Speaker 1: know as a journalist to when I was asked to 186 00:10:09,710 --> 00:10:11,979 Speaker 1: knock on the doors of families who have lost people, 187 00:10:11,980 --> 00:10:14,060 Speaker 1: I asked my editors why do we have to do this? 188 00:10:14,059 --> 00:10:17,530 Speaker 1: This seems so cruel. And they told me this is 189 00:10:17,530 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: giving a grieving family a platform to speak. And as 190 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,890 Speaker 1: you say, remember the person they've lost. And even though 191 00:10:23,890 --> 00:10:26,900 Speaker 1: it's difficult, it's a very important part of our job. 192 00:10:26,910 --> 00:10:30,540 Speaker 1: International media. They thronged the Child Care Center to get 193 00:10:30,540 --> 00:10:31,510 Speaker 1: this story, but 194 00:10:31,670 --> 00:10:34,970 Speaker 1: in journalism, there are unspoken rules right? There are certain 195 00:10:34,970 --> 00:10:38,670 Speaker 1: lines that you do not cross the CNN team. They 196 00:10:38,670 --> 00:10:41,770 Speaker 1: were on the receiving end of vitriol for going into 197 00:10:41,770 --> 00:10:44,140 Speaker 1: that building which you had said it was cordoned off. 198 00:10:44,140 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: It's an active crime scene. They went in, they filmed 199 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,510 Speaker 1: their report. Were there questions about ethics and what is 200 00:10:50,510 --> 00:10:52,510 Speaker 1: appropriate when covering this story? 201 00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 2: Obviously, the question of ethics always comes to mind. I 202 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,270 Speaker 2: think it's very unfortunate 203 00:10:58,420 --> 00:11:02,300 Speaker 2: that that story seemed to have overshadowed the real story 204 00:11:02,309 --> 00:11:08,359 Speaker 2: of the victims who were gunned down mercilessly by the shooter. 205 00:11:08,370 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: So this story of the CNN team going into the 206 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,670 Speaker 2: child care center should not even have been a headline 207 00:11:14,940 --> 00:11:17,930 Speaker 2: simply because the focus should have always been on the 208 00:11:17,929 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 2: victims and also to remember the victims who are the 209 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:26,090 Speaker 2: real story here in this case. When you talk about ethics, 210 00:11:26,090 --> 00:11:32,309 Speaker 2: journalists will always struggle to define what journalism ethics is, 211 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,710 Speaker 2: what integrity is and how far do you want to 212 00:11:35,710 --> 00:11:37,670 Speaker 2: go with it? For me personally, 213 00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:42,660 Speaker 2: I will maintain a certain distance. I will not push 214 00:11:42,690 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 2: a person if that person waved me away and doesn't 215 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: want to talk to me. And obviously there were moments 216 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:49,150 Speaker 2: that 217 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,410 Speaker 2: you felt as though, are you asking too much should 218 00:11:52,410 --> 00:11:54,890 Speaker 2: you go on or should you cut short the interview? 219 00:11:54,900 --> 00:11:57,820 Speaker 2: Because you've already gathered what you need. So there are 220 00:11:57,820 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: certain lines that you don't cross here and obviously getting 221 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 2: into the child care center was never a question. It's 222 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,860 Speaker 2: not about exclusivity or it's not about getting special access 223 00:12:08,860 --> 00:12:11,750 Speaker 2: into the area whether or not there was a cordon 224 00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:13,890 Speaker 2: or whether or not there was no cordon, there's no 225 00:12:13,890 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: business of a journalist to go inside because it was 226 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,550 Speaker 2: an active crime scene. 227 00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:22,220 Speaker 2: And obviously as you saw as well in that CNN 228 00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 2: report blood was still on the floor. I mean parents 229 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,700 Speaker 2: couldn't even go inside the childcare center, much less a journalist. 230 00:12:29,710 --> 00:12:33,570 Speaker 2: Now a lot of these images as well that I 231 00:12:33,570 --> 00:12:37,580 Speaker 2: have put out on social media on television, some people 232 00:12:37,580 --> 00:12:41,820 Speaker 2: have criticized to say why are you showing the parents faces? 233 00:12:41,830 --> 00:12:43,010 Speaker 2: Why are you 234 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,910 Speaker 2: showing their emotions? But I think it is necessary to 235 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:52,460 Speaker 2: show their emotions. It's necessary to tell that story because 236 00:12:52,460 --> 00:12:56,429 Speaker 2: it also gives them an outlet, a coping mechanism as 237 00:12:56,429 --> 00:12:59,420 Speaker 2: well to deal with the grief that they're going through 238 00:12:59,429 --> 00:13:03,930 Speaker 2: because they want to tell people how special that child was. 239 00:13:03,929 --> 00:13:07,460 Speaker 2: They want to tell people how they are missing that 240 00:13:07,460 --> 00:13:08,540 Speaker 2: particular child. 241 00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: Obviously a lot of the grandparents, they were taking care 242 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,370 Speaker 2: of the kids because their Children were working in a 243 00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:19,700 Speaker 2: different province. I just want to point out, there was 244 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:24,420 Speaker 2: one moment that when they open up the front gate 245 00:13:24,429 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: of the childcare center to allow the parents to go 246 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,980 Speaker 2: as close as the front door of the childcare center, 247 00:13:30,980 --> 00:13:32,250 Speaker 2: but not to go inside, 248 00:13:32,429 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 2: but at the front door they allowed the parents to 249 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,970 Speaker 2: lay down white roses and I saw all the parents, 250 00:13:39,980 --> 00:13:44,490 Speaker 2: their uncles and aunties and their grandparents in particular falling 251 00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:48,900 Speaker 2: to their knees crying, weeping uncontrollably. 252 00:13:49,530 --> 00:13:53,900 Speaker 2: And one moment that really, really struck me was when 253 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:56,750 Speaker 2: they actually laid down the flour and I heard one 254 00:13:56,750 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 2: parent cry out loudly, that means come home my child 255 00:14:03,570 --> 00:14:09,260 Speaker 2: come home. And that was extremely, extremely poignant because 256 00:14:09,860 --> 00:14:14,380 Speaker 2: I think what they want is for the child's soul 257 00:14:14,390 --> 00:14:17,060 Speaker 2: to come back. They don't want a child's soul to 258 00:14:17,059 --> 00:14:20,300 Speaker 2: be wandering outside and hence they're calling out to the 259 00:14:20,300 --> 00:14:24,109 Speaker 2: child to say come home now my child come home. 260 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,090 Speaker 2: So that was a very, very special moment. And obviously 261 00:14:27,090 --> 00:14:30,430 Speaker 2: it was very difficult to control the emotions and that 262 00:14:30,430 --> 00:14:32,710 Speaker 2: was just before I had to do a live report 263 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: with you I remember 264 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: and it was hard, It was hard. I mean, I 265 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,810 Speaker 2: felt the lump in my throat and you know, it 266 00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:42,650 Speaker 2: was very, very difficult to try and 267 00:14:43,180 --> 00:14:45,910 Speaker 2: kind of put up a face go in front of 268 00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:50,380 Speaker 2: the camera and then tell the story without letting my 269 00:14:50,380 --> 00:14:54,780 Speaker 2: emotions get the better of me. And yet another mother 270 00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:58,670 Speaker 2: was clutching onto a blanket and a milk bottle that 271 00:14:58,670 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 2: was half drunk and so you can just tell that 272 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,270 Speaker 2: number one that blanket was probably one that the child 273 00:15:05,270 --> 00:15:08,790 Speaker 2: had been using that the child 274 00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:12,700 Speaker 2: had held onto when he or she was sleeping at 275 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:15,500 Speaker 2: night and that milk bottle as well was the one 276 00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:18,700 Speaker 2: that he or she was using all the time. She 277 00:15:18,700 --> 00:15:23,070 Speaker 2: just stood there weeping uncontrollably. I couldn't even bear to 278 00:15:23,070 --> 00:15:25,460 Speaker 2: approach her because I felt that that was a private 279 00:15:25,460 --> 00:15:28,860 Speaker 2: moment and I didn't I let her be because I 280 00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:31,740 Speaker 2: think she needed the time to heal 281 00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:34,989 Speaker 1: in journalism. You always strive to cover the story and 282 00:15:34,990 --> 00:15:36,570 Speaker 1: not be the story. 283 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: Stay with us up next on CNN correspondent more with 284 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: May Wong. The aftermath of the tragedy has already seen 285 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,660 Speaker 1: the government take action but will it help? We'll be 286 00:15:46,660 --> 00:15:47,380 Speaker 1: right back. 287 00:15:51,970 --> 00:15:52,450 Speaker 1: Mhm 288 00:15:55,290 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm steven and I host the new season of 289 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,730 Speaker 1: our podcast heart of the matter, join me in getting 290 00:16:01,730 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: right to the heart of the headlines as we speak 291 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,430 Speaker 1: with experts and newsmakers to delve deep into the most 292 00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:11,330 Speaker 1: talked about news developments. Look out for our episodes wherever 293 00:16:11,340 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: you get your podcast 294 00:16:20,820 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: for more on this, let's bring in May wong. She's 295 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: standing by live in non shampoo in Thailand, May you 296 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,740 Speaker 1: are standing at the scene of the attack where these 297 00:16:30,740 --> 00:16:33,900 Speaker 1: families of the victims are gathering at the moment. Tell 298 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:36,250 Speaker 1: us what is it like? What is the atmosphere there 299 00:16:36,250 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: like 300 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:45,410 Speaker 2: profound sadness and grief cannot even begin to describe the 301 00:16:45,410 --> 00:16:49,310 Speaker 2: scene over here. This particular hall here as you see, 302 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,290 Speaker 2: is where all the families of the victims. 303 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: Welcome back to CNN correspondent what you just heard there 304 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: was a snippet of the live cross, I did with 305 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,850 Speaker 1: you may during a news bulletin the day after the 306 00:17:02,850 --> 00:17:05,590 Speaker 1: killings and I remember you saying that there was not 307 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,270 Speaker 1: a dry eye around when you spoke to people about 308 00:17:08,270 --> 00:17:12,250 Speaker 1: these Children, many of whom were actually being raised by grandparents. 309 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,570 Speaker 2: Indeed, many of them were raised by their grandparents. In 310 00:17:16,570 --> 00:17:21,060 Speaker 2: fact when they were at the command center, a lot 311 00:17:21,060 --> 00:17:24,340 Speaker 2: of them were just filled with elderly people and obviously 312 00:17:24,340 --> 00:17:28,330 Speaker 2: that's very telling because these were grandparents that raised this 313 00:17:28,330 --> 00:17:29,590 Speaker 2: child from birth 314 00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:34,020 Speaker 2: and the grandmothers, the grandfathers were very, very close to 315 00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:36,940 Speaker 2: the Children and obviously a lot of the grandparents as 316 00:17:36,940 --> 00:17:40,580 Speaker 2: well when they finally managed to see the bodies when 317 00:17:40,580 --> 00:17:44,180 Speaker 2: the bodies were moved from the hospital to a temple, 318 00:17:44,190 --> 00:17:46,540 Speaker 2: a lot of them broke down. A lot of them 319 00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:49,510 Speaker 2: had to be helped out of the temple and also 320 00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:50,930 Speaker 2: many of them fainted. 321 00:17:51,170 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 2: So you just imagine the kind of sorrow that they 322 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,139 Speaker 2: have to cope with because this little baby that they 323 00:17:59,140 --> 00:18:03,390 Speaker 2: helped to raise with their two hands and now gone in, 324 00:18:03,390 --> 00:18:06,690 Speaker 2: just one fell swoop. And that's the reason why when 325 00:18:06,690 --> 00:18:09,710 Speaker 2: you talk about the grandparents is just a very, very 326 00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:13,570 Speaker 2: special moment and there's one that I spoke to where 327 00:18:13,570 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 2: you will now take a listen to. 328 00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:20,980 Speaker 2: I took care of him since he was so young, 329 00:18:20,990 --> 00:18:26,139 Speaker 2: I raised him with my own hands, he was close 330 00:18:26,140 --> 00:18:29,570 Speaker 2: to the family, A very nice boy who has a 331 00:18:29,570 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: beautiful smile, whoever saw him always loved him, 332 00:18:36,910 --> 00:18:40,859 Speaker 1: The attacker was a 34 year old former police sergeant. 333 00:18:40,869 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: There was a divorce, financial pressures and an unhappy relationship, 334 00:18:45,530 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: a recipe for mental distress and authorities initially blamed drugs, 335 00:18:50,190 --> 00:18:53,179 Speaker 1: but an autopsy later found no trace of drugs in 336 00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:56,460 Speaker 1: his system. So that makes people zero in on this 337 00:18:56,460 --> 00:18:57,870 Speaker 1: man's mental health may 338 00:18:58,380 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 2: absolutely. It's not just about the mental health per se 339 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,130 Speaker 2: of such personnel, but it's also the entire structure in 340 00:19:06,130 --> 00:19:09,020 Speaker 2: terms of the military. In terms of the law enforcement, 341 00:19:09,030 --> 00:19:14,020 Speaker 2: we've seen stories before of hazings being done inside police 342 00:19:14,020 --> 00:19:17,830 Speaker 2: force and also within the military. And there have been 343 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:23,740 Speaker 2: reports as well of abuses from superiors within the entire system. 344 00:19:23,740 --> 00:19:26,609 Speaker 2: So you've got a system that is not 345 00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:31,709 Speaker 2: exactly transparent. You've got a whole structure that is hierarchical 346 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,650 Speaker 2: and then you've got this mental aspect of it which 347 00:19:34,650 --> 00:19:37,890 Speaker 2: is never really looked into for Southeast Asia as well 348 00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 2: as for Thailand mental health assessment is still a rather 349 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: taboo subject. So within for example, the law enforcement within 350 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,350 Speaker 2: the military is not a systematic assessment that's being done 351 00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:54,010 Speaker 2: on a regular basis. And also gun access by all 352 00:19:54,010 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 2: these 353 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,220 Speaker 2: ex military personnel or ex police officers and current law 354 00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 2: enforcement officers that is very much in question because they 355 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,300 Speaker 2: are available very easily. So all these uniformed personnel. So 356 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:11,890 Speaker 2: obviously there are issues to be dealt with here, particularly 357 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 2: in terms of having easy access to firearms. Also mental 358 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,350 Speaker 2: health assessment, in addition to that, remember here in 2020 359 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,110 Speaker 2: in karate, there was also a 360 00:20:23,130 --> 00:20:27,219 Speaker 2: Another mass shooting that went on that involved a military 361 00:20:27,230 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 2: soldier who had access to weapons and he went on 362 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,780 Speaker 2: a shooting spree as well at that time, the Thai 363 00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: government also said and promised that such an incident should 364 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: never happen again and they will look into it. But 365 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,500 Speaker 2: obviously now 2022, you've got two years, three years later, 366 00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:47,900 Speaker 2: nothing has changed. And once again the government has come 367 00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:50,369 Speaker 2: out to say yes we are going to step up 368 00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 2: and what the government is 369 00:20:51,380 --> 00:20:54,740 Speaker 2: saying right now is they will include mental health assessments 370 00:20:54,750 --> 00:20:58,929 Speaker 2: into people who are trying to get license for guns 371 00:20:58,940 --> 00:21:02,300 Speaker 2: and also they are going to look more thoroughly into 372 00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:05,700 Speaker 2: whether or not the uniform personnel needs to go through 373 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:10,010 Speaker 2: mental health checkups on a regular basis and finally also 374 00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:14,619 Speaker 2: more restrictions that will be introduced in order to curb 375 00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:17,980 Speaker 2: the free and easy access to weapons in this country. 376 00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:19,610 Speaker 2: All of these have to be looked at 377 00:21:19,630 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 2: in totality and unfortunately this issue is just so massive 378 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,189 Speaker 2: that it will take a long time to overcome and 379 00:21:28,190 --> 00:21:31,930 Speaker 2: obviously it will take a lot of gumption and political 380 00:21:31,930 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 2: will to actually execute and bring about real actionable changes 381 00:21:37,450 --> 00:21:41,940 Speaker 1: made from the victim's perspective what sort of counseling is 382 00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:44,469 Speaker 1: available there for families who are going to be living 383 00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: with this guilt and this grief for the rest of 384 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: their lives. 385 00:21:48,350 --> 00:21:52,890 Speaker 2: Well, immediately at the shooting site, they had set up 386 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:57,650 Speaker 2: centers where they had volunteer nurses for example, and also 387 00:21:57,650 --> 00:22:01,620 Speaker 2: health care professionals that were deployed even from Bangkok to 388 00:22:01,619 --> 00:22:05,690 Speaker 2: go over to the shooting site to offer counseling services 389 00:22:05,710 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 2: and also just to offer a listening ear for any 390 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,580 Speaker 2: of the parents as well as family members who just 391 00:22:12,580 --> 00:22:16,540 Speaker 2: want to talk to a medical professional. And also a 392 00:22:16,540 --> 00:22:20,310 Speaker 2: lot of the grandparents are feeling so guilt ridden that 393 00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:23,070 Speaker 2: some of them have actually talked about committing suicide. 394 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,690 Speaker 2: So this is very, very serious case. And from what 395 00:22:25,690 --> 00:22:29,610 Speaker 2: I understand as well, reports have shown that about 20% 396 00:22:29,619 --> 00:22:33,270 Speaker 2: of the family members are suffering from severe cases of 397 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:38,190 Speaker 2: mental health conditions simply because they are really struggling to 398 00:22:38,190 --> 00:22:41,450 Speaker 2: cope with this sudden grief that they've been put through. 399 00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:44,090 Speaker 2: And so it's not an easy task and obviously the 400 00:22:44,090 --> 00:22:46,820 Speaker 2: government has said it is a priority. So they have 401 00:22:46,830 --> 00:22:49,689 Speaker 2: encouraged any of the family members or 402 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:52,910 Speaker 2: many of the public who feel as though they want 403 00:22:52,910 --> 00:22:54,940 Speaker 2: to talk to somebody who feel as though they've been 404 00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:58,340 Speaker 2: affected by this to call up hotlines as well. So 405 00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 2: there are hotlines that are available, there are health care 406 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,580 Speaker 2: professionals who are available in person or if they want 407 00:23:04,580 --> 00:23:08,169 Speaker 2: to talk about a video conferencing, the mental health department 408 00:23:08,180 --> 00:23:10,229 Speaker 2: and the government has said that they will continue to 409 00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 2: do this as long as it's necessary, 410 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,389 Speaker 2: that 411 00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: was thai Prime Minister, Prayuth chan Ocha, he was walking 412 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,950 Speaker 1: amongst a throng of family members at the site, patting 413 00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: some on the shoulder, embracing their necks, telling them how 414 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,700 Speaker 1: deeply sorry he is. 415 00:23:31,130 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: The morning after this happened, I was in a cab 416 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,620 Speaker 1: coming to work and the driver brought up this story 417 00:23:36,619 --> 00:23:39,020 Speaker 1: and he said, I saw the headline, I saw that 418 00:23:39,020 --> 00:23:42,020 Speaker 1: it involved a mass killing with Children and I thought 419 00:23:42,030 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: it must be the United States and he was shocked 420 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,700 Speaker 1: to learn that it was in Thailand. How rare is 421 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: something like this? 422 00:23:49,869 --> 00:23:54,899 Speaker 2: It's rare because this involved such a large number of Children. 423 00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 2: It's rare because you're talking about Children as well on 424 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,330 Speaker 2: an occasional basis. You hear a lot of guns being 425 00:24:03,330 --> 00:24:06,690 Speaker 2: used in terms of one on one personal disputes in 426 00:24:06,690 --> 00:24:10,460 Speaker 2: different provinces all across Thailand. So it's not an unusual 427 00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:12,369 Speaker 2: scene but it's never on 428 00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:16,430 Speaker 2: Such a mass scale that this really took the whole 429 00:24:16,430 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: country's attention and also the global attention because for one, 430 00:24:20,730 --> 00:24:25,620 Speaker 2: it involved more than 20 young very young Children. So 431 00:24:25,619 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: obviously having gun access, gun control policies are necessary, Thailand 432 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,899 Speaker 2: has had a gun control policy since 1947. 433 00:24:35,030 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 2: And obviously over the years they have tried to curb 434 00:24:38,970 --> 00:24:42,630 Speaker 2: all the gun access and obviously they have also tried 435 00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:47,460 Speaker 2: to tell people that this shouldn't be the choice of 436 00:24:47,460 --> 00:24:51,940 Speaker 2: weapon in terms of making use of guns to settle disputes, 437 00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 2: but also remember here that it's not just the 438 00:24:54,450 --> 00:24:59,190 Speaker 2: about settling one on one disputes between unhappy buyers and 439 00:24:59,190 --> 00:25:03,270 Speaker 2: sellers for example. But it's also about this willingness to 440 00:25:03,270 --> 00:25:06,469 Speaker 2: use guns as a source of power to show the 441 00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:09,950 Speaker 2: fact that I am mightier than others and I can 442 00:25:09,950 --> 00:25:12,179 Speaker 2: actually do a lot of harm if I have a 443 00:25:12,180 --> 00:25:14,570 Speaker 2: weapon in hand. May 444 00:25:14,570 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today and thank 445 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,510 Speaker 1: you to you and your crew for covering this story 446 00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:21,390 Speaker 1: with such compassion. Thanks 447 00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:23,630 Speaker 2: Teresa. It was hard to talk about it, but thank 448 00:25:23,630 --> 00:25:24,379 Speaker 2: you for having me. 449 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: The tv version of Sienna correspondent airs on Sienna every 450 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. You can also catch up with 451 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,010 Speaker 1: them whenever you like on C N A dot Asia. 452 00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: Follow this podcast version that takes you behind the scenes 453 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,730 Speaker 1: with our correspondence so you'll know when a new episode 454 00:25:43,730 --> 00:25:47,209 Speaker 1: is out. Our podcast team is made up of Daniel Lee, 455 00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: Christina robert, Clara Yong and me your host, Teresa Tang, 456 00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:52,690 Speaker 1: thank you very much for listening.