1 00:00:03,059 --> 00:00:05,380 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:05,570 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: Hey, everyone. Andrea Heng, here. The Money Talks team is 3 00:00:08,609 --> 00:00:11,688 Speaker 2: taking a short break well deserved if you ask me 4 00:00:11,699 --> 00:00:16,229 Speaker 2: in December, but we will be back with new episodes 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,610 Speaker 2: in January 2025. Feel 6 00:00:18,764 --> 00:00:21,154 Speaker 2: free to take a deep dive in the meantime, into 7 00:00:21,165 --> 00:00:24,274 Speaker 2: our archives. If you want to learn more about how 8 00:00:24,284 --> 00:00:27,375 Speaker 2: to save, how to invest and how to stretch your 9 00:00:27,385 --> 00:00:30,034 Speaker 2: dollar for now though, we've put together some of our 10 00:00:30,045 --> 00:00:34,375 Speaker 2: best performing episodes. Enjoy them and we'll see you next year. 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,409 Speaker 2: Hey, everyone. I'm Andrea Heng. Welcome to the Money Talks podcast. 12 00:00:42,569 --> 00:00:45,540 Speaker 2: This is the part where we talk about all things, money, 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,569 Speaker 2: what to do with it, how to save it when 14 00:00:48,580 --> 00:00:52,580 Speaker 2: and where to invest it and how to be responsible 15 00:00:52,590 --> 00:00:54,540 Speaker 2: with it. But for the next couple of 16 00:00:54,645 --> 00:00:57,674 Speaker 2: weeks, we're gonna shake things up a little bit and 17 00:00:57,685 --> 00:01:00,645 Speaker 2: do something a little bit special on the Money Talks Podcast. 18 00:01:00,834 --> 00:01:03,634 Speaker 2: And we want to do this by talking to a 19 00:01:03,645 --> 00:01:06,944 Speaker 2: few people who know a thing or two about making money. 20 00:01:07,074 --> 00:01:10,893 Speaker 2: And after they've made their money, what do they do 21 00:01:10,904 --> 00:01:13,894 Speaker 2: with it? So, this week in the hot seat. We 22 00:01:13,904 --> 00:01:15,464 Speaker 2: have Ismael Gaur. 23 00:01:15,709 --> 00:01:18,709 Speaker 2: If you've ever been in the market to buy or 24 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,910 Speaker 2: sell your home, chances are you would have come across 25 00:01:21,919 --> 00:01:26,730 Speaker 2: the name of his company Propnex. It's Singapore's largest listed 26 00:01:26,739 --> 00:01:31,729 Speaker 2: real estate agency with a sales force of over 12,000 agents. 27 00:01:31,980 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: And this doesn't include agents in the region including Malaysia, 28 00:01:36,010 --> 00:01:39,459 Speaker 2: Vietnam and Cambodia. He is a father of three and 29 00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: a self proclaimed happy person. 30 00:01:43,110 --> 00:01:45,750 Speaker 2: Welcome to Money Talks as well. Thank you so much 31 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,029 Speaker 2: for your kind words and such a long introduction. It's 32 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,730 Speaker 2: a long and necessary one to introduce the one and 33 00:01:52,739 --> 00:01:56,500 Speaker 2: only so everyone knows who you are, right? You're no 34 00:01:56,510 --> 00:01:58,610 Speaker 2: stranger to Singaporeans out there. 35 00:01:59,139 --> 00:02:03,610 Speaker 2: Tell our listeners one thing that most people may not 36 00:02:03,620 --> 00:02:08,500 Speaker 2: know about you. I think I'm an open book honestly. Andrea, 37 00:02:08,508 --> 00:02:11,580 Speaker 2: I think people know me well. Yeah, I can get 38 00:02:11,589 --> 00:02:15,008 Speaker 2: angry too. Of course. Yeah. What would make you angry? 39 00:02:15,070 --> 00:02:18,209 Speaker 2: Things that don't move the way it should. I don't 40 00:02:18,220 --> 00:02:22,940 Speaker 2: like people to delay. How often does that happen? No more? 41 00:02:22,949 --> 00:02:25,860 Speaker 2: I now so much more older, 42 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 2: a wiser, more wisdom. So I don't, that's a good approach, 43 00:02:30,750 --> 00:02:33,489 Speaker 2: knowing that's who you are and then learning how to 44 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:36,038 Speaker 2: cope with it. That's the beauty of aging. I see. 45 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,270 Speaker 2: So you have before in the past talked about the 46 00:02:40,279 --> 00:02:42,529 Speaker 2: tough childhood you had, right? You grew up in a 47 00:02:42,538 --> 00:02:46,288 Speaker 2: one room H DB flat with five siblings. You help 48 00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:50,589 Speaker 2: your dad deliver newspapers. Was there one particular incident that 49 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,110 Speaker 2: stood out to you in your childhood that shaped your 50 00:02:54,119 --> 00:02:56,460 Speaker 2: attitude towards money? 51 00:02:57,250 --> 00:03:01,288 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Andrea, did I pronounce it? Right. That's perfect. 52 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,580 Speaker 2: I really felt that my dad was working very hard 53 00:03:04,850 --> 00:03:07,739 Speaker 2: and I also felt that my mom felt that was 54 00:03:07,750 --> 00:03:11,630 Speaker 2: always never enough. Whether I won't say food on the table. 55 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,759 Speaker 2: We were quite luxurious as far as the basic necessities 56 00:03:15,770 --> 00:03:16,619 Speaker 2: were concerned. 57 00:03:16,940 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: But if you talk about a decent roof or having 58 00:03:20,449 --> 00:03:24,470 Speaker 2: the luxuries, I think in our childhood, we have never 59 00:03:24,529 --> 00:03:31,339 Speaker 2: had a family holiday at all until 60 00:03:31,940 --> 00:03:35,630 Speaker 2: never as a family between my mom and dad. Other 61 00:03:35,639 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: than yes, visiting his hometown back to India. It is 62 00:03:39,889 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: out of more necessity that he wanted to turn back. 63 00:03:43,089 --> 00:03:45,490 Speaker 2: Look at today. All of us, even my Children are 64 00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:49,660 Speaker 2: so blessed that like holidays, not once a year, at 65 00:03:49,669 --> 00:03:52,339 Speaker 2: least twice a year. But I know that when I 66 00:03:52,350 --> 00:03:56,300 Speaker 2: was growing up, that life is tough. How did that 67 00:03:56,309 --> 00:03:57,789 Speaker 2: make you value money? 68 00:03:58,110 --> 00:04:01,050 Speaker 2: I think if I say something, people will be surprised. 69 00:04:02,009 --> 00:04:05,850 Speaker 2: It took a long time for me. Long, long time 70 00:04:06,020 --> 00:04:09,250 Speaker 2: that I have the desire to be able to spend 71 00:04:09,259 --> 00:04:12,750 Speaker 2: a bit more freely. And now I can, I can, yeah, 72 00:04:13,350 --> 00:04:14,490 Speaker 2: even less than 73 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,559 Speaker 2: 10 years ago when I was already the CEO of 74 00:04:18,570 --> 00:04:22,260 Speaker 2: Propnex and the largest real estate company really blessed with 75 00:04:22,269 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 2: a lot of things I used to go to a 76 00:04:24,369 --> 00:04:28,469 Speaker 2: mcdonald at, to Payoh and stand there thinking what to 77 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:29,070 Speaker 2: order 78 00:04:29,730 --> 00:04:34,670 Speaker 2: and evaluating my brain work in such a fast frequency, 79 00:04:35,070 --> 00:04:39,670 Speaker 2: their value meal and all other meals. By the time 80 00:04:39,678 --> 00:04:43,959 Speaker 2: I go to the counter, my heart doesn't approve of 81 00:04:43,970 --> 00:04:50,368 Speaker 2: ordering a value meal. I'll just order a $2 cheeseburger 82 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,339 Speaker 2: and I will not order the drink. Sometimes of fries, 83 00:04:55,350 --> 00:04:59,329 Speaker 2: sometimes not. I bring it up to my room and 84 00:04:59,339 --> 00:05:02,779 Speaker 2: I enjoy it. It's just that I feel that it's 85 00:05:02,790 --> 00:05:08,290 Speaker 2: not the right price. So it really is about what 86 00:05:08,299 --> 00:05:11,790 Speaker 2: value means to you at the end of the day. Yeah, 87 00:05:11,799 --> 00:05:15,869 Speaker 2: but that behavior surprisingly is only something that I want 88 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,570 Speaker 2: to treat myself. But when I want to spend on others, 89 00:05:19,940 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: I'm very happy to see the delight in the faces 90 00:05:24,010 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: of others. I used to be very generous with people 91 00:05:27,890 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 2: around me, but not myself. But that change in the 92 00:05:32,049 --> 00:05:36,100 Speaker 2: last eight years. What was that turning point that made 93 00:05:36,109 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: you change your mind? No, I went for some courses 94 00:05:39,049 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 2: and some deep reflection 95 00:05:41,450 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: I deserve. I started to love myself more. And do 96 00:05:45,488 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: you feel better about yourself and your life? And has 97 00:05:50,010 --> 00:05:53,820 Speaker 2: that changed how you handle your generosity? Especially when it 98 00:05:53,829 --> 00:05:56,670 Speaker 2: comes to money? 100%. I must say that. No, no. 99 00:05:56,678 --> 00:05:59,519 Speaker 2: Even in the past as far as handling money and 100 00:05:59,529 --> 00:06:03,130 Speaker 2: spending money, I've got, I never had an issue but 101 00:06:03,140 --> 00:06:05,868 Speaker 2: spending on myself has always been an issue. 102 00:06:06,488 --> 00:06:09,089 Speaker 2: And when I start to love myself and spend a 103 00:06:09,100 --> 00:06:12,890 Speaker 2: bit more on myself that give me the radiance and 104 00:06:12,899 --> 00:06:18,769 Speaker 2: the energy and very positive likes and comments and I 105 00:06:18,779 --> 00:06:22,989 Speaker 2: feel more loved when you feel loved, you naturally tend 106 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,339 Speaker 2: to be more generous. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think it's, 107 00:06:26,350 --> 00:06:28,750 Speaker 2: and there's no better love than the love you have 108 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,018 Speaker 2: for yourself, isn't it? Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Sometimes even though 109 00:06:32,029 --> 00:06:34,269 Speaker 2: we are talking about money, but I want to just 110 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:34,988 Speaker 2: go to something 111 00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:40,059 Speaker 2: very fundamental just about before eight years ago or so 112 00:06:40,309 --> 00:06:43,429 Speaker 2: I always say when people, I thought if I put 113 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:48,390 Speaker 2: a ranking out of three things, family, career, self, what 114 00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:51,899 Speaker 2: would you rank family career? 115 00:06:52,690 --> 00:06:55,459 Speaker 2: So that's exactly my ranking. 116 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,739 Speaker 2: I put my family first and then my career and 117 00:06:58,750 --> 00:07:03,390 Speaker 2: then myself, that's what I ranked. And that's what I 118 00:07:03,399 --> 00:07:08,470 Speaker 2: outwardly says. But then I realized after going through some 119 00:07:08,850 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: enlightenment through courses that I attended maybe even though I 120 00:07:12,209 --> 00:07:17,519 Speaker 2: said family. But my focus, my energy was actually my business, 121 00:07:17,529 --> 00:07:20,269 Speaker 2: my career because I was too passionate about it. 122 00:07:20,850 --> 00:07:24,239 Speaker 2: And because the truth is while I'm at work, I 123 00:07:24,250 --> 00:07:29,500 Speaker 2: get greater validation boss. You are good. Yeah, we all 124 00:07:29,510 --> 00:07:32,910 Speaker 2: of us want to feel left. So somehow doesn't mean 125 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: I didn't get or receive the left from home, but 126 00:07:36,649 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: I was very much focused at work. But I took 127 00:07:40,329 --> 00:07:45,070 Speaker 2: a switch, my paradigm shifted 128 00:07:45,829 --> 00:07:51,290 Speaker 2: when I put self first, family, second career, third. And 129 00:07:51,299 --> 00:07:57,820 Speaker 2: when I said, self, not the selfish self of me, 130 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:02,750 Speaker 2: but the well being of me, the happiness of me, 131 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 2: the goodness of me. And when I do that, I 132 00:08:06,130 --> 00:08:08,910 Speaker 2: get more energy and I feel loved. 133 00:08:09,549 --> 00:08:13,089 Speaker 2: And when I feel myself loved and with the right energy, 134 00:08:13,179 --> 00:08:15,649 Speaker 2: when I go back home, I spread the love to 135 00:08:15,660 --> 00:08:19,190 Speaker 2: my family. It's radiating and they are happy to see me. 136 00:08:19,410 --> 00:08:23,500 Speaker 2: And because of that, they support me and that gives 137 00:08:23,510 --> 00:08:25,940 Speaker 2: me all the energy I require 138 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: back at work. So it's cyclical. It's a nice little 139 00:08:29,890 --> 00:08:32,909 Speaker 2: ecosystem there. So when I put self lasts, what happened, 140 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 2: I was much heavier in terms of weight because I 141 00:08:35,450 --> 00:08:39,590 Speaker 2: was slogging, clocking hours in the office because I'm so 142 00:08:39,599 --> 00:08:42,909 Speaker 2: focused with office. And because of that, I get tired, 143 00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:45,739 Speaker 2: even when I go back home, you get a bit 144 00:08:45,750 --> 00:08:49,650 Speaker 2: highly strong. Yeah, you get agitated and so on. And 145 00:08:49,659 --> 00:08:50,858 Speaker 2: what happened to the family, 146 00:08:51,210 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: the Children try to avoid you because I think daddy 147 00:08:53,770 --> 00:08:56,108 Speaker 2: is not in the right mood. They have to predict 148 00:08:56,119 --> 00:09:00,390 Speaker 2: the mood. But then I realized I was not doing 149 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,468 Speaker 2: it right. So when I change these things fall in 150 00:09:03,479 --> 00:09:07,510 Speaker 2: place and the most interesting thing here is the money 151 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:08,829 Speaker 2: keeps flowing into you. 152 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: So the money didn't change. In fact, it double because 153 00:09:12,090 --> 00:09:14,409 Speaker 2: you are a happy person. And when you move around, 154 00:09:14,419 --> 00:09:17,659 Speaker 2: people are happy to be with you. Not only family, 155 00:09:17,669 --> 00:09:22,989 Speaker 2: your business associates, your partner's relationship with anyone because you 156 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,510 Speaker 2: are doing the right thing and you are coming in 157 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 2: from your heart and because of such an ease, everybody 158 00:09:29,330 --> 00:09:33,260 Speaker 2: work more effectively and money grew. 159 00:09:33,969 --> 00:09:38,229 Speaker 2: That's fantastic. Although I have to ask Ismael, that's not 160 00:09:38,239 --> 00:09:40,940 Speaker 2: to discount the hard work that you did put in 161 00:09:40,950 --> 00:09:43,369 Speaker 2: the earlier years of building your business. Right? I think 162 00:09:43,380 --> 00:09:48,150 Speaker 2: beyond doubt. I suppose everyone works hard that's given. Yeah, 163 00:09:48,159 --> 00:09:53,989 Speaker 2: I think if you ask me some definite ingredient for success, 164 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,030 Speaker 2: I would say 165 00:09:55,520 --> 00:10:00,900 Speaker 2: is discipline and the right values obviously because I don't 166 00:10:00,909 --> 00:10:04,979 Speaker 2: think there's a shortcut. Anyone who is disciplined and work 167 00:10:04,989 --> 00:10:08,549 Speaker 2: on it and it's just a matter of time. Yeah. Ok. 168 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,700 Speaker 2: So I want to take you back to the time 169 00:10:10,710 --> 00:10:11,900 Speaker 2: when you 170 00:10:12,044 --> 00:10:18,224 Speaker 2: received your first ever check. Can you recall how much 171 00:10:18,234 --> 00:10:22,275 Speaker 2: was that check was, what was going through your mind 172 00:10:22,315 --> 00:10:25,724 Speaker 2: when you were holding that check in your hand? That 173 00:10:25,734 --> 00:10:28,454 Speaker 2: was when I sold my property 174 00:10:28,869 --> 00:10:32,599 Speaker 2: and when the law firm called me on the completion 175 00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:35,219 Speaker 2: and handed over the check under the name of my 176 00:10:35,229 --> 00:10:39,770 Speaker 2: wife and myself. And for sure, even on those days, 177 00:10:39,780 --> 00:10:44,599 Speaker 2: I'm talking about in the early 19 nineties, more than 178 00:10:44,609 --> 00:10:51,010 Speaker 2: 30 years ago, it was more than $100,000 and holding 179 00:10:51,020 --> 00:10:52,219 Speaker 2: on to the check is 180 00:10:52,335 --> 00:10:56,364 Speaker 2: even when you're walking out from the lawyer's office to 181 00:10:56,375 --> 00:10:59,515 Speaker 2: the car park, you feel you are surrounded by Kenny 182 00:10:59,565 --> 00:11:02,534 Speaker 2: G music and on. It's not that the feeling of 183 00:11:02,544 --> 00:11:06,635 Speaker 2: being rich that you feel like you have in abundance, 184 00:11:06,715 --> 00:11:08,674 Speaker 2: but you don't have a chance to feel that they 185 00:11:08,684 --> 00:11:11,775 Speaker 2: are real. That kind of a feeling. It's surreal. Right? 186 00:11:11,784 --> 00:11:15,314 Speaker 2: It's just, oh, is this really happening to me? That's 187 00:11:15,325 --> 00:11:15,715 Speaker 2: the feeling, 188 00:11:15,909 --> 00:11:18,109 Speaker 2: right. I'm glad you brought up your wife because I 189 00:11:18,119 --> 00:11:24,140 Speaker 2: remember back in 1996 you opened up Norris consultants with 190 00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:29,020 Speaker 2: your wife and obviously that eventually became propnex as a couple. 191 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:34,579 Speaker 2: What was your philosophy together when it came to money, 192 00:11:34,590 --> 00:11:38,699 Speaker 2: both personally and professionally? Because it's one thing to manage 193 00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:39,210 Speaker 2: your individual 194 00:11:39,494 --> 00:11:42,794 Speaker 2: finances. But then you also are a working couple, you 195 00:11:42,804 --> 00:11:45,934 Speaker 2: work together. So there's the professional finances to think about 196 00:11:45,945 --> 00:11:49,414 Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, I think honestly, I'm truly blessed, I 197 00:11:49,424 --> 00:11:52,885 Speaker 2: must say truly. And I also believe anyone to be successful, 198 00:11:52,895 --> 00:11:56,164 Speaker 2: you need both the partner to be aligned in terms 199 00:11:56,174 --> 00:12:00,645 Speaker 2: of money sense and values as well. So when you 200 00:12:00,655 --> 00:12:02,604 Speaker 2: were running the consultancy together, 201 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,119 Speaker 2: did you run into financial conflicts with one another? Disagree 202 00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:10,539 Speaker 2: on certain ways to run the business and how to 203 00:12:10,549 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: manage the finances of that business? We never had an 204 00:12:13,770 --> 00:12:18,780 Speaker 2: issue about managing the business finances, but obviously, we 205 00:12:18,890 --> 00:12:22,830 Speaker 2: do have, I won't say issues, agreement and disagreement the 206 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 2: way the company need to be run. That's perfectly ok 207 00:12:26,210 --> 00:12:29,859 Speaker 2: because my wife was also an army officer. But the 208 00:12:29,869 --> 00:12:32,330 Speaker 2: mere fact that I got attracted to her was because 209 00:12:32,340 --> 00:12:34,590 Speaker 2: she was intellectual enough to challenge me 210 00:12:35,020 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 2: and then when we started the business, I can't say 211 00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:39,789 Speaker 2: it is my way. So we definitely had a lot 212 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:42,890 Speaker 2: of discussions and so on. But we have our strength. 213 00:12:43,010 --> 00:12:46,270 Speaker 2: I'm a very numbered person. In fact, when I look 214 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: at numbers, it floats and tell me stories. When I 215 00:12:50,010 --> 00:12:54,010 Speaker 2: open a financial statement, I know the health of it 216 00:12:54,020 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 2: good or are we in trouble? Her strength is in 217 00:12:58,450 --> 00:13:03,830 Speaker 2: terms of curriculum development. She has got masters in training development. 218 00:13:04,159 --> 00:13:08,130 Speaker 2: So that's her strength. So we blend both our strength 219 00:13:08,140 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 2: when we started the company Norris consultants and named it 220 00:13:11,289 --> 00:13:14,689 Speaker 2: as Norris because we coined after both our name, my 221 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:17,940 Speaker 2: wife's name is Nora. So the first four letters is 222 00:13:17,989 --> 00:13:19,369 Speaker 2: Noor 223 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,450 Speaker 2: and my name is Ma I, so that's how we 224 00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: started our real estate company. Ok. Now, I want to 225 00:13:25,090 --> 00:13:27,950 Speaker 2: know it's important for any couple to be on the 226 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,589 Speaker 2: same page to make sure that finances are on track. 227 00:13:31,599 --> 00:13:33,429 Speaker 2: So what's the one thing that you and your wife 228 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,510 Speaker 2: have in common when it comes to a financial habit, 229 00:13:37,809 --> 00:13:40,390 Speaker 2: we have come to an agreement. We will 230 00:13:40,890 --> 00:13:45,228 Speaker 2: not lend money to anyone. I'm not taking this opportunity 231 00:13:45,239 --> 00:13:47,570 Speaker 2: because I'm talking about money. No, no, no, no, no, 232 00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:51,260 Speaker 2: because that is in the source of friendship and relationship 233 00:13:51,270 --> 00:13:54,669 Speaker 2: being broken. But we say that we can give money 234 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,059 Speaker 2: to people who are 235 00:13:57,195 --> 00:14:00,554 Speaker 2: and we just bless them with the expectation, not receiving 236 00:14:00,565 --> 00:14:03,864 Speaker 2: it back. But if we receive it back. We take 237 00:14:03,875 --> 00:14:07,114 Speaker 2: it as a blessing because the main reason here, this 238 00:14:07,125 --> 00:14:11,494 Speaker 2: was our earlier days, even before we became an entrepreneur, ok? 239 00:14:11,729 --> 00:14:14,228 Speaker 2: Because I think money can be the root of the problem. 240 00:14:14,239 --> 00:14:16,929 Speaker 2: And because of money and you feel so attached to 241 00:14:16,940 --> 00:14:21,330 Speaker 2: money and then your emotions go all over friendships can 242 00:14:21,340 --> 00:14:23,809 Speaker 2: be ruined. So this is one agreement that we had, 243 00:14:23,989 --> 00:14:26,770 Speaker 2: whether it is from my friends, my side or her 244 00:14:26,780 --> 00:14:27,340 Speaker 2: friends or her. 245 00:14:27,924 --> 00:14:30,804 Speaker 2: But if you ever decide to give, we don't need 246 00:14:30,815 --> 00:14:33,635 Speaker 2: to consult each other. If it is within our range 247 00:14:33,645 --> 00:14:36,395 Speaker 2: of pocket money for them to help themselves and the 248 00:14:36,405 --> 00:14:39,195 Speaker 2: family for a week's meal or what, no problem. If 249 00:14:39,205 --> 00:14:42,924 Speaker 2: somebody wants to ask X amount of $1000 250 00:14:43,239 --> 00:14:45,729 Speaker 2: we don't have the right to give unless we both 251 00:14:45,739 --> 00:14:49,539 Speaker 2: of us discuss and then we think it's ok, then 252 00:14:49,549 --> 00:14:52,469 Speaker 2: we can. So that's one part of it. The next 253 00:14:52,479 --> 00:14:59,260 Speaker 2: part here is we never overstretch ourselves beyond our means. 254 00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:03,369 Speaker 2: I always felt in order to create wealth, it is 255 00:15:03,380 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: at least through my experience, it's very difficult to save money. 256 00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:12,239 Speaker 2: But if you commit into a right asset class, while 257 00:15:12,250 --> 00:15:18,469 Speaker 2: we are working harder, the property to keep appreciating with inflation. 258 00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:21,140 Speaker 2: So every time when we sell, we unlock, remember I 259 00:15:21,150 --> 00:15:24,479 Speaker 2: said good couple of 100,000, but we never took the 260 00:15:24,489 --> 00:15:25,919 Speaker 2: 100/1000 261 00:15:26,469 --> 00:15:29,969 Speaker 2: to win on a Frenzy Holiday Award. The bulk of it, 262 00:15:29,979 --> 00:15:36,059 Speaker 2: we reinvested into a higher value property, obviously, we spent some, 263 00:15:36,289 --> 00:15:39,289 Speaker 2: but the bulk of it and we built the wealth 264 00:15:39,299 --> 00:15:40,650 Speaker 2: until a time 265 00:15:41,150 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: that we were able to sell multiple properties. Or now 266 00:15:44,849 --> 00:15:47,830 Speaker 2: we are in a position to decide how we want 267 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,809 Speaker 2: to manage our life. I think that's an incredible story 268 00:15:50,820 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 2: and some of that advice I wish I had when 269 00:15:53,770 --> 00:15:55,609 Speaker 2: I was in my younger years. I just want to 270 00:15:55,619 --> 00:15:56,979 Speaker 2: say it's never too late. Trust me. 271 00:15:57,025 --> 00:16:00,775 Speaker 2: it is never I agree because honestly, because a lot 272 00:16:00,784 --> 00:16:04,325 Speaker 2: of people disqualify themselves that maybe I should have done 273 00:16:04,335 --> 00:16:05,984 Speaker 2: in the past and now it's not the right time. 274 00:16:06,585 --> 00:16:11,325 Speaker 2: I would strongly suggest to anyone. It really doesn't matter 275 00:16:11,335 --> 00:16:14,645 Speaker 2: where you are right now. But pause moment 276 00:16:15,229 --> 00:16:20,650 Speaker 2: and to reorganize as far as financial first start with 277 00:16:20,659 --> 00:16:22,900 Speaker 2: the health check and what is the next step you 278 00:16:22,909 --> 00:16:25,309 Speaker 2: want to take? And you would be able to save 279 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,549 Speaker 2: fair amount of money. But if you only know where 280 00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:30,590 Speaker 2: to cut what to cut. For example, some of us 281 00:16:30,599 --> 00:16:34,549 Speaker 2: may be paying a monthly mortgage on our property that 282 00:16:34,559 --> 00:16:38,799 Speaker 2: could be on a higher interest level. And by just 283 00:16:38,809 --> 00:16:42,169 Speaker 2: taking a proactive approach to understand and speaking to few 284 00:16:42,179 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: other mortgage lenders, 285 00:16:44,409 --> 00:16:47,150 Speaker 2: either your own bank to say that, hey, I've been 286 00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:51,090 Speaker 2: your loyal supporter over the last five years and I'm 287 00:16:51,099 --> 00:16:54,179 Speaker 2: paying a much higher interest rates than the new people 288 00:16:54,190 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: that you are trying to bring them on board. Can 289 00:16:57,090 --> 00:17:00,349 Speaker 2: I have that similar treatment, the bank will give it 290 00:17:00,359 --> 00:17:02,809 Speaker 2: to you. Everything can be negotiated and if the bank 291 00:17:02,820 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: don't want to give it to you and there's no 292 00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:06,030 Speaker 2: reason why the bank won't 293 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 2: you shift to another bank? Then you become their new darling. 294 00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:12,938 Speaker 2: But you saved money. Yes. Yeah. And it can go 295 00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:14,709 Speaker 2: to a couple of hundreds of thousands depending on the 296 00:17:14,719 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: amount of the loan. This is only one aspect, right? 297 00:17:17,420 --> 00:17:19,349 Speaker 2: But when we just pause a moment and look at 298 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:24,229 Speaker 2: all our finances, be it a mobile plan? Maybe we 299 00:17:24,260 --> 00:17:26,250 Speaker 2: see what data are we using and what we are 300 00:17:26,260 --> 00:17:27,140 Speaker 2: not using 301 00:17:27,530 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 2: and some habits or whether it is it out dining 302 00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:33,910 Speaker 2: and what if you just reorganize a bit, we can 303 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:39,430 Speaker 2: have some savings. So you have three Children and they 304 00:17:39,439 --> 00:17:43,739 Speaker 2: have grown up in a very different financial environment than 305 00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:47,109 Speaker 2: you did in your childhood. So, how did you teach 306 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:48,430 Speaker 2: them about money 307 00:17:49,050 --> 00:17:52,770 Speaker 2: first and foremost? I don't spoil them. What do you 308 00:17:52,780 --> 00:17:57,469 Speaker 2: think is fair? Someone who's 19 and going on 20 309 00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:02,369 Speaker 2: my younger daughter, she was schooling at Tanglin Trust and 310 00:18:02,380 --> 00:18:05,790 Speaker 2: she had finished her school in two weeks time. She's 311 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:11,109 Speaker 2: going to go to London for her, continuing her university studies. 312 00:18:11,619 --> 00:18:15,709 Speaker 2: What is a fair amount of a monthly allowance? Oh, 313 00:18:15,719 --> 00:18:20,869 Speaker 2: in London here? Oh, here. Wow. One month. Wow. I 314 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: don't know what kids spend on these days. They are 315 00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 2: very different from what I spent on when I was 316 00:18:25,180 --> 00:18:29,459 Speaker 2: a 19 year old, I'm gonna go say 1000 put 317 00:18:29,469 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 2: my status and their expectations and so on. 318 00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:35,489 Speaker 2: I'm going to say more than 1000 how much 319 00:18:36,540 --> 00:18:41,909 Speaker 2: I think they're gonna ask you for $3000. I give 320 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,930 Speaker 2: them monthly $450. Wow, that's what I got when I 321 00:18:46,939 --> 00:18:50,129 Speaker 2: was a teenager. Wow. So that's the same amount because 322 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:52,698 Speaker 2: the family have everything. I mean, everything the food is 323 00:18:52,709 --> 00:18:53,579 Speaker 2: there on the table, 324 00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:57,770 Speaker 2: your $450 is just to spend on what you need. 325 00:18:57,780 --> 00:19:01,290 Speaker 2: And unless of course you need to purchase something of 326 00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:04,619 Speaker 2: a necessity. I can give you for that amount. But 327 00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 2: you have to just tell me daddy, I need this. 328 00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:09,930 Speaker 2: I need an ipad because it is broken or I 329 00:19:09,939 --> 00:19:12,750 Speaker 2: need to buy something because I'm going to go for 330 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 2: a certain event. I need this blazer on a neat basis. 331 00:19:16,930 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: I'm prepared to spend. Ok. But as a pure cash 332 00:19:20,010 --> 00:19:22,448 Speaker 2: in your hand, how you want to spend, 333 00:19:23,109 --> 00:19:27,139 Speaker 2: I think you don't only give them basically I want 334 00:19:27,150 --> 00:19:31,270 Speaker 2: the Children to know that money need to be valued 335 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,939 Speaker 2: and you should spend your budget within your means. And 336 00:19:35,949 --> 00:19:38,310 Speaker 2: I'm happy in this amount of money that I give. 337 00:19:38,319 --> 00:19:40,229 Speaker 2: They still have a savings. Do you let them go 338 00:19:40,239 --> 00:19:43,810 Speaker 2: to work part time to earn? My elder girl? In fact, 339 00:19:43,819 --> 00:19:46,170 Speaker 2: both my girls went for all my Children, 340 00:19:46,459 --> 00:19:49,459 Speaker 2: my elder girl earlier part of the year Risha might 341 00:19:49,469 --> 00:19:51,959 Speaker 2: be right now, she's working for me for the last 342 00:19:51,969 --> 00:19:55,530 Speaker 2: three years. She also graduated from UK. So when she 343 00:19:55,540 --> 00:19:59,579 Speaker 2: came back, I put her through customer service operation for 344 00:19:59,839 --> 00:20:03,709 Speaker 2: one year. Then she came back home sometime in tears. 345 00:20:03,810 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: Why work is so difficult daddy? I said, yes, darling. 346 00:20:08,689 --> 00:20:13,239 Speaker 2: It's like that. Then she moved on to hr department 347 00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 2: right now. I just want her to know 348 00:20:16,109 --> 00:20:19,859 Speaker 2: that it is not an entitlement just because your daddy 349 00:20:19,869 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 2: is a CEO or we have more financial comfort. No. 350 00:20:23,859 --> 00:20:26,180 Speaker 2: So that's why I felt that the value of money 351 00:20:26,189 --> 00:20:29,369 Speaker 2: is important from young. Actually, I can choose to give 352 00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:33,069 Speaker 2: all the money, but that's not the right values being 353 00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:35,939 Speaker 2: taught to them. That money is for free. So you've 354 00:20:35,949 --> 00:20:39,209 Speaker 2: been in real estate for over 30 years, Ismael, what 355 00:20:39,219 --> 00:20:43,030 Speaker 2: are some of the common financial mistakes you've seen Singaporeans 356 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,469 Speaker 2: make when buying a home? I can understand because any 357 00:20:46,479 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: purchase comes with emotion. 358 00:20:49,229 --> 00:20:52,719 Speaker 2: So I would suggest that anybody, especially if you want 359 00:20:52,729 --> 00:20:55,890 Speaker 2: to buy any big ticket item home is definitely a 360 00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:58,228 Speaker 2: big ticket item and it could be some others, it 361 00:20:58,239 --> 00:21:01,939 Speaker 2: could be a car and whatever it is let not 362 00:21:01,949 --> 00:21:05,979 Speaker 2: jump into it just looking at it in the first instance. 363 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,979 Speaker 2: And that will become too much of an emotional involvement. 364 00:21:10,930 --> 00:21:13,630 Speaker 2: But on the other hand, we cannot detach emotions from 365 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,149 Speaker 2: any purchase because you must have a liking to be 366 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,750 Speaker 2: able to invest in that particular property. Always be prudent 367 00:21:21,890 --> 00:21:25,750 Speaker 2: to buy within your means and always have a reserve 368 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,260 Speaker 2: for minimum six months. Ideal is one year in the 369 00:21:30,270 --> 00:21:33,670 Speaker 2: event you choose to leave your current job and restart 370 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: something and you are not so stressed. So I think 371 00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:40,469 Speaker 2: the financial planning is definitely important. 372 00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:43,900 Speaker 2: The other aspect that maybe it is not directly pertaining 373 00:21:43,910 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 2: to the question, Andre that you asked, I believe in 374 00:21:46,410 --> 00:21:50,319 Speaker 2: something and a term that I use quite frequently is 375 00:21:50,329 --> 00:21:56,310 Speaker 2: known as delayed gratification. Yes. Yeah, a lot of people 376 00:21:56,390 --> 00:22:00,810 Speaker 2: and I think especially some of the younger generations, but 377 00:22:00,819 --> 00:22:03,979 Speaker 2: I won't say now even in the past. So I 378 00:22:03,989 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 2: cannot label it now. It's not true. I think this 379 00:22:07,890 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 2: is a weakness of people. 380 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: Some of them tend to spend more than what they 381 00:22:15,369 --> 00:22:19,750 Speaker 2: are capable or earn just to put a show to 382 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:25,060 Speaker 2: the world that they are so called good enough or 383 00:22:25,180 --> 00:22:31,140 Speaker 2: I have arrived buying branded goods, buying things that they 384 00:22:31,150 --> 00:22:36,060 Speaker 2: have to pay on installment basis, choking up their credit cards. 385 00:22:36,069 --> 00:22:40,099 Speaker 2: These are the things that truly actually bleed 386 00:22:40,410 --> 00:22:45,459 Speaker 2: your financial health over time. It may be easy because 387 00:22:45,469 --> 00:22:50,698 Speaker 2: today there are so many lenders, either professional from the 388 00:22:50,709 --> 00:22:52,660 Speaker 2: bank institution you go and they are prepared to give 389 00:22:52,670 --> 00:22:55,949 Speaker 2: you as many credit lines or you will, I'm quite 390 00:22:55,959 --> 00:22:58,290 Speaker 2: sure many of them will receive in the phone call 391 00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:02,750 Speaker 2: friendly providers who will always want to say ready to 392 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 2: give you ready cash. But all these things comes with 393 00:23:06,050 --> 00:23:06,790 Speaker 2: a cash 394 00:23:07,390 --> 00:23:11,859 Speaker 2: and when you don't manage it, the interest will kill 395 00:23:11,869 --> 00:23:15,189 Speaker 2: a person and you lose your peace. And that's where 396 00:23:15,199 --> 00:23:18,699 Speaker 2: family breakups also can take place. And as you said, 397 00:23:18,709 --> 00:23:21,849 Speaker 2: you can't go to sleep at night having that burden 398 00:23:21,859 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 2: in your mind. Right? I think that's absolutely true. And 399 00:23:24,130 --> 00:23:26,010 Speaker 2: I had to learn that the hard way myself, by 400 00:23:26,020 --> 00:23:30,938 Speaker 2: the way. So, Ismael, you always hear rich and successful 401 00:23:30,949 --> 00:23:34,290 Speaker 2: people saying that oh no, no money isn't everything. But 402 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:36,959 Speaker 2: those who are less well off 403 00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:43,089 Speaker 2: may perhaps say, well, that's because you already have that money. 404 00:23:43,140 --> 00:23:47,409 Speaker 2: What do you say to that? No, I won't say easily. 405 00:23:47,420 --> 00:23:52,510 Speaker 2: Money is not everything. Money is something but money cannot 406 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 2: be everything. Ok, Steve Jobs had all the money but 407 00:23:57,569 --> 00:23:58,530 Speaker 2: it couldn't help him. 408 00:23:58,790 --> 00:24:05,130 Speaker 2: Money cannot give us health. Money cannot absolutely give us joy. 409 00:24:05,140 --> 00:24:09,020 Speaker 2: But money is important. It is a source of blood. 410 00:24:09,140 --> 00:24:11,290 Speaker 2: But if you say blood group is m like not 411 00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:14,239 Speaker 2: A or B like it's money. But I think what 412 00:24:14,250 --> 00:24:20,170 Speaker 2: is more important here is the contentment and non attachment 413 00:24:20,180 --> 00:24:24,589 Speaker 2: to money is important because I've seen families earning less 414 00:24:24,599 --> 00:24:27,569 Speaker 2: than $5000 and they are happy. 415 00:24:28,349 --> 00:24:35,589 Speaker 2: But I've seen families earning $50,000 combined and not happy. 416 00:24:35,939 --> 00:24:38,699 Speaker 2: So where do we stop then? Yeah. Correct. But money 417 00:24:38,709 --> 00:24:41,319 Speaker 2: is important. If you say you don't even have money 418 00:24:41,329 --> 00:24:45,140 Speaker 2: for the basic necessities, that's tough. And therefore I will 419 00:24:45,150 --> 00:24:48,239 Speaker 2: say the only way to get out of it. Work harder. 420 00:24:48,349 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 2: Never give up. Always believe that I am good enough. 421 00:24:52,689 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 2: Kind of mental state. Go out there and get that 422 00:24:56,050 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: money for your basic necessities. 423 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,938 Speaker 2: But you want to go beyond that. 424 00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:02,619 Speaker 2: Then one day you can say money is not everything. 425 00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:05,989 Speaker 2: Like most people say that's ok. That's your call. When 426 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,300 Speaker 2: they reach that stage, maybe I'll go and find out 427 00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:12,369 Speaker 2: what their secret is. Ismael has been such a fun conversation. 428 00:25:12,380 --> 00:25:15,189 Speaker 2: I'm so glad that we were able to get you 429 00:25:15,199 --> 00:25:17,510 Speaker 2: to sit in this seat and talk to us and 430 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,699 Speaker 2: share your life's experience with us on money talk. So, 431 00:25:20,709 --> 00:25:23,099 Speaker 2: thank you very much. Truly, my pleasure. 432 00:25:27,890 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 2: All right. So we've come to the fun part of 433 00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:34,099 Speaker 2: the Money Talks podcast. It's called Questions from a hat 434 00:25:34,109 --> 00:25:36,260 Speaker 2: and you see my hat here, I'm going to reach 435 00:25:36,270 --> 00:25:40,189 Speaker 2: out for it right now. Really going on. So this 436 00:25:40,199 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: is the fun part. There are five random questions in here. 437 00:25:44,089 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 2: I'm gonna toss them up and we do this with 438 00:25:46,489 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 2: every one of our guests you get to pick, but 439 00:25:49,489 --> 00:25:51,630 Speaker 2: you have to hand it to me and I'll read 440 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,969 Speaker 2: it out for you. OK. All right. Here you go. 441 00:25:54,750 --> 00:25:58,270 Speaker 2: And right. Your question from the hat is, 442 00:26:00,010 --> 00:26:03,790 Speaker 2: oh, this is a good one. Especially after the conversation 443 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:09,229 Speaker 2: we just had is mild. What is pricey but always 444 00:26:09,239 --> 00:26:09,910 Speaker 2: worth it? 445 00:26:10,839 --> 00:26:12,609 Speaker 2: Wow, that's too deep. 446 00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:19,469 Speaker 2: What is pricey and always worth it? From a real 447 00:26:19,479 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 2: estate perspective. As far as Singapore's is concerned, I will 448 00:26:24,209 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: say real estate is always pricey. Yes, that's right. But 449 00:26:29,810 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 2: why do I say it's always worth it? If you 450 00:26:33,810 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 2: want to have a good retirement, 451 00:26:37,069 --> 00:26:41,310 Speaker 2: if you want to be financially free, your property will 452 00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:46,260 Speaker 2: continue to appreciate. Provided is the right property and you 453 00:26:46,270 --> 00:26:49,030 Speaker 2: will have all the wealth when the time is right 454 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 2: and you'll be a happy person and outside of real estate, 455 00:26:52,369 --> 00:26:56,250 Speaker 2: what would you deem as pricey but still worth it? Ok. 456 00:26:56,260 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 2: I think what is most important here is this the 457 00:26:59,170 --> 00:27:05,089 Speaker 2: time that you give and make for your loved ones 458 00:27:05,689 --> 00:27:09,859 Speaker 2: is truly pricey and you cannot put a price tag 459 00:27:09,869 --> 00:27:14,390 Speaker 2: to it. When the time passes on, you can't go 460 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,489 Speaker 2: and hug and carry your daughter because she has outgrown. 461 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,079 Speaker 2: You have a space, you have a line, you have 462 00:27:21,089 --> 00:27:25,510 Speaker 2: a respect and these are moments that you can bring 463 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,589 Speaker 2: it all the way till your grave. So to me 464 00:27:28,599 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 2: such time that you can allocate is important 465 00:27:32,829 --> 00:27:37,889 Speaker 2: values, respect. Once some broken, you can't take it back 466 00:27:38,150 --> 00:27:42,579 Speaker 2: so you can't measure it through money. Yeah, absolutely true. 467 00:27:42,599 --> 00:27:45,839 Speaker 2: Thank you so much Ismael Gaffer for sitting in the 468 00:27:45,849 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 2: hot seat on the Money Talks podcast today. Truly, my 469 00:27:48,579 --> 00:27:49,629 Speaker 2: pleasure and 470 00:27:50,469 --> 00:27:53,770 Speaker 2: thank you as well for listening to us. And if 471 00:27:53,780 --> 00:27:57,750 Speaker 2: you have any thoughts on what you've just heard, feel 472 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,089 Speaker 2: free to drop us a comment. A shout out to 473 00:28:00,099 --> 00:28:03,829 Speaker 2: the team here is Tiffany Ang Joanne Chan, Jaini Johari 474 00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:07,900 Speaker 2: and Sae Wind, our video editor Haida Amin. That's it 475 00:28:07,910 --> 00:28:10,319 Speaker 2: for now on the Money Talks Podcast. I'm Andrea Heng.