Speaker 1: Hi, Tao.
Speaker 2: Hey, it's Aura and I'm Jermaine
Speaker 1: and welcome back to another episode of Gravity. Hash.
Speaker 1: Now, if you're tuning into this episode and you find
Speaker 1: that you're the type of people who always say yes,
Speaker 1: when you more rather say no, this app is for you. Ok.
Speaker 1: In today's episode, we are diving deep into the art
Speaker 1: of people pleasing and why we often get stuck in
Speaker 1: this
Speaker 1: cycle.
Speaker 2: I think it's something that afflicts a lot of us
Speaker 2: we brought on an expert today. This is a people
Speaker 2: pleaser life coach. She specializes in that, but not only that,
Speaker 2: she's also a certified sound healing practitioner. She is a
Speaker 2: relationship coach and an entrepreneur. Please welcome V
Speaker 2: thank you so much for having me here. Ok? I
Speaker 2: wouldn't call myself an expert, but yeah, I am running
Speaker 2: my own little company mainly doing sound healing and also coaching,
Speaker 2: specializing in relationships and people pleasing behavior. So this company
Speaker 2: of mine, it's called Infinity because I believe that there
Speaker 2: are infinite ways to heal. And my name starts with
Speaker 2: V Yeah, it's just like that. I love that.
Speaker 1: V for what I'm guessing, Vanessa. Yes,
Speaker 2: Vanessa. Well, I love that. And you know, I've always
Speaker 2: been very intrigued by like chakra work spiritual healing and Reiki.
Speaker 2: So very interested to pick your mind today and also
Speaker 2: on how we can heal from being a people pleaser.
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I feel like people pleasing is a trait that's
Speaker 1: very evident, especially in Asian cultures or Asian countries. I
Speaker 1: would call myself a people pleaser.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So would
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 2: right. You just want to
Speaker 2: appease someone else like and in Asian culture, you're very polite,
Speaker 2: you just go out of your way to help someone
Speaker 2: else kind of thing.
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 1: think you're taught from young to always like think about
Speaker 1: others feelings, what they may think and I think we
Speaker 1: carry that with us and it becomes these behaviors.
Speaker 2: So v what is people pleasing to you? OK. So
Speaker 2: people pleasing is a behavioral tendency whereby we tend to
Speaker 2: put the needs, wants and
Speaker 2: of others over our own at the expense of our
Speaker 2: own mental wellness and our boundaries. So this is characterized
Speaker 2: by behavior such as over apologizing, oh my God, just
Speaker 2: me saying yes, just to maintain the peace, not expressing
Speaker 2: our true thoughts and just going along with what everybody wants. Basically,
Speaker 2: you tend to don't really have a sense of self.
Speaker 2: I think that's a bit harsh to say like you
Speaker 2: don't have a sense of self. I sometimes feel like
Speaker 2: it's almost like you have a need to, you know,
Speaker 2: just want to make peace and sometimes you forget what
Speaker 2: you really want at the sake of appeasing others.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: You tend to lose the sense of self that was
Speaker 2: once there. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: There's a range
Speaker 1: to this. Right. I mean, you know, it's not one
Speaker 1: size fits
Speaker 1: all
Speaker 2: right.
Speaker 2: Not
Speaker 1: so an example this year I was going through the
Speaker 1: renovation for my place and everything and I was constantly
Speaker 1: texting my ID. I did not realize that I was
Speaker 1: over apologizing like for every text I sent him, I'll
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I'm so sorry. Can you help me
Speaker 1: with this? Oh, I'm so sorry. Can you help me
Speaker 1: with that? And two weeks he was like, yes, yes. OK. OK.
Speaker 1: I'll do this. I'll do that and last but not
Speaker 1: least stop saying sorry. So
Speaker 1: he actually he
Speaker 1: brought that up
Speaker 1: up to me and I was like, oh, I did
Speaker 1: not realize I was saying sorry, like with every text
Speaker 1: that I sent
Speaker 1: him, why do we do that?
Speaker 2: Because I find myself doing that every time I ask
Speaker 2: for a favor or even if it's not a favor, right?
Speaker 2: It's something that the other person is supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2: I feel sorry for inconveniencing them. Why is that such
Speaker 2: a common thing? It's that lack of self worth. Actually,
Speaker 2: a lot of us are stuck in this thought whereby
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm worth a lot, like
Speaker 2: maybe deep down inside to a certain extent there is
Speaker 2: a bit of insecurity and that longing for external validation
Speaker 2: is actually pretty common.
Speaker 1: Is it because we feel
Speaker 1: like we're being an
Speaker 1: inconvenience
Speaker 2: to a certain extent? But there's no hard and fast rule.
Speaker 2: I'm really shocked, mortified. I am mortified. So you're saying
Speaker 2: that we over apologize because we feel like we're not
Speaker 2: enough to a certain extent deep down inside. It's something
Speaker 2: that we don't really think about
Speaker 2: subconscious. I mean, like in Singapore it's quite a fast
Speaker 2: paced lifestyle. How often do we just sit back and
Speaker 2: reflect on how it is that we are behaving? What
Speaker 2: is the, why behind why we do things, even the
Speaker 2: apologizing part. Why do you always start, do you over apologize? Yes.
Speaker 2: In the past, I did this a lot, a lot.
Speaker 2: But when I started becoming a bit more conscious of
Speaker 2: like starting my sentences with sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Then
Speaker 2: I realize why am I sorry?
Speaker 2: I don't need to be sorry. I find this a
Speaker 2: lot in Asian cultures and especially with women. Like when
Speaker 2: I went to America every time I wanted to get
Speaker 2: past in the hour I'd be like, sorry, sorry. Excuse me?
Speaker 2: They'd be like, you're fine just to apologize. I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's true. I don't have to apologize. Why am I saying? Sorry?
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to get past. Right. But it's almost
Speaker 2: like it's like a habit. It's come so naturally. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then I think
Speaker 1: we're taught here as well that it's a polite thing
Speaker 1: to say and we don't actually realize that we're apologizing,
Speaker 1: you know, that way. You
Speaker 1: not as a sorry, like an apology. Exactly. Using it
Speaker 1: because it sounds polite and sometimes it even becomes like
Speaker 1: a conversation starter. Like, even in, let's say our radio
Speaker 1: DJ S life will be like, sorry, what time are
Speaker 1: we coming back on air? Yes. Sorry. What time are
Speaker 1: you playing this song? But why do we have to
Speaker 1: say sorry, sorry, ask
Speaker 1: you,
Speaker 2: ah it's one of the ways to combat that to
Speaker 2: replace it with a different word like, excuse me or
Speaker 1: like, hey, what time are we come back?
Speaker 2: Hey, hey, hey,
Speaker 2: hey, yo, auntie, can you move out of the way
Speaker 2: that works too? Actually,
Speaker 1: that works. But do you find like this people pleasing thing?
Speaker 1: It's more common in women than in men
Speaker 2: actually to me? Yes, but it is not a gender thing.
Speaker 2: In fact, there are certain origins of people pleasing that
Speaker 2: are more catered to men. There's this thing called the
Speaker 2: f dead paradigm. So that one is more for guys
Speaker 2: having to fit in the roles of a father, the
Speaker 2: man of the house at an early stage. So that
Speaker 2: one not so much for women, but in general, in
Speaker 2: my coaching sessions, I like to talk about this thing
Speaker 2: called people pleasing styles. So there are quite a number
Speaker 2: but the one that I feel a lot of women
Speaker 2: fall under would be this dissociative people pleasing. So what
Speaker 2: happens over here is that people are controlled by this
Speaker 2: idea of what they're supposed to be, this identity, a
Speaker 2: perceived identity, which could be the good girl, the girl
Speaker 2: who always keeps her mouth shut, the girl who loves
Speaker 2: to help around the house, the one that will be
Speaker 2: a good housewife in future, you know, and we are
Speaker 2: stuck with that. And I mean, even in school, like
Speaker 2: for me, at least when I was younger, I still
Speaker 2: remember it was in kindergarten,
Speaker 2: I would see the boys are always the ones getting scolded.
Speaker 2: They're always running around, very happy making a lot of noise.
Speaker 2: And then the teachers would be like, look at the
Speaker 2: girls over there, they're so quiet.
Speaker 2: So we have been taught since young that that's the
Speaker 2: good image to reward you for that behavior. I think
Speaker 2: this is very apt you know, on what Azura said
Speaker 2: that people pleasing is a spectrum and maybe a lower
Speaker 2: end of the spectrum are things like over apologizing. But
Speaker 2: at the higher end of the spectrum, it could shape
Speaker 2: your entire life because you want to please society or
Speaker 2: you want to fit into a mold and you go
Speaker 2: into something that you don't even like just to please
Speaker 2: people please your parents please society. Yeah. So one of
Speaker 2: the origins and
Speaker 2: the origin of people pleasing is called the loading cycle.
Speaker 2: So in the loading cycle, you are lauded, you are
Speaker 2: praised for fitting into that norm that may not really
Speaker 2: be you, but you were taught since young that that's
Speaker 2: the way to be. That's how I should behave in
Speaker 2: order to get praised. I want to get praised. It's
Speaker 2: a nice feeling. Yeah. So we get stuck in that.
Speaker 2: I'm traumatized. I know it sounds like a lot of
Speaker 2: like childhood trauma that shapes us to become like that.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call people pleasing a bad thing because there's
Speaker 1: good that comes out of it
Speaker 1: right now. I feel that. Ok, so I have a colleague.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Sheen. She's the nicest being ever like
Speaker 1: in chosen. So she's always there to help every single DJ,
Speaker 1: every single colleague. I wouldn't call her a people pleaser.
Speaker 1: But I do know for a fact that it's hard
Speaker 1: for her to say no. And sometimes I empathize with that.
Speaker 1: But as a result whenever she needs help from us,
Speaker 1: as jocks, we would go all out to help her. So,
Speaker 1: you know, that's good that comes out of it. She
Speaker 1: is seen as a very nice person that we wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to hurt that all of us would want to
Speaker 1: go out of our way to help her be.
Speaker 1: So she's helped us first.
Speaker 2: I think that's really great. But it also depends on
Speaker 2: the kind of environment like it's really great that you
Speaker 2: guys are the nice kind that will reciprocate her kindness.
Speaker 2: But imagine if someone was placed in an environment where
Speaker 2: everyone's like taking advantage of you, then she wouldn't feel
Speaker 2: the same in such a state. I think I faced,
Speaker 2: I had to confront this people pleasing tendency in myself.
Speaker 2: Probably sometime last year, I reached a point of like,
Speaker 2: really bad burn out. And I realized that, you know,
Speaker 2: I was saying yes, too many things just to like
Speaker 2: almost like protect my place in the industry because everyone
Speaker 2: that invites you to something you kind of don't want
Speaker 2: to turn them down. You want to give them a
Speaker 2: bit of yourself. You want to give them a piece
Speaker 2: of your time to show them that they are important
Speaker 2: to you. And at the end of the day who suffers,
Speaker 2: it's me. I suffer. I'm miserable and that's not a
Speaker 2: way to live life.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing I realized about Jim is she will
Speaker 1: say yes to a lot of media invites. That's good.
Speaker 1: It's a win win thing because then you get to
Speaker 1: update your social media content. But at the same time
Speaker 1: as a friend, I'm concerned for you as to whether
Speaker 1: you have time for yourself to just rest, to be
Speaker 1: your loved ones
Speaker 1: or not. That's a very valid point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to reclaim some of that time for
Speaker 2: myself and just tell myself, hey, I deserve my own
Speaker 2: time too. Not just
Speaker 2: else. And what I'm left with is sitting with that
Speaker 2: guilt of not going to this or not saying yes
Speaker 2: or saying no, it's that guilt. That's like I feel bad,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: You know, I know
Speaker 1: someone who used to people please a lot. And then
Speaker 1: one day someone told her if your answer is not
Speaker 1: a fuck yes, then it's a no,
Speaker 2: but most things are not.
Speaker 1: That is so
Speaker 1: you have to be really absolute and sure. I think
Speaker 1: from then on, she sort of like stopped, you know,
Speaker 1: like spreading herself too thin and just really made sure
Speaker 1: that it was something she really wanted to do. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of us might not get to that
Speaker 1: point
Speaker 1: because to a certain extent, we still feel like we
Speaker 1: have obligations or, you know,
Speaker 1: we just work. It's
Speaker 2: for this. Yeah, I mean, v you've seen a lot
Speaker 2: of people pleasers, you're a people pleaser, life coach. What,
Speaker 2: what is like, what are some of the worst cases
Speaker 2: you've seen? How has
Speaker 2: people pleasing affected their lives? The worst ones I would
Speaker 2: say is when they have panic attacks at work, they
Speaker 2: let it be such a huge part of their life
Speaker 2: that they can't stop it at work at home everywhere.
Speaker 2: But it's especially at work when you, if you break down,
Speaker 2: you have a panic
Speaker 2: attack, you then become a bit more anxious and like,
Speaker 2: oh no, I need to fix this even more and
Speaker 2: you become even more of a people pleaser. And then
Speaker 2: because you are becoming more of a people pleaser, you
Speaker 2: end up
Speaker 1: being more
Speaker 2: anxious.
Speaker 1: And
Speaker 1: another friend in industry was just telling me about this,
Speaker 1: that she knows someone who,
Speaker 1: it's just so nervous all the time that when they're
Speaker 1: just having a normal conversation like you and I, she
Speaker 1: would visually see hives breaking out on that person's face
Speaker 1: because she got so stressed over the work issue that
Speaker 1: they're talking about. So she does not know that this
Speaker 1: person is talking to. She doesn't know how to say no,
Speaker 1: how to reject people. She takes everything in and like
Speaker 1: hives just break out on the face and that makes
Speaker 1: my friend so stressed because
Speaker 1: she said, oh, I don't know whether to continue this
Speaker 1: conversation or not or should I be working with someone else?
Speaker 1: But the person she's talking to really wants to maintain
Speaker 1: that working relationship. So all the more she will go
Speaker 1: all out to say yes.
Speaker 2: Oh
Speaker 2: my God. I can actually empathize with that because actually
Speaker 2: I was one of those people who broke up in
Speaker 2: high school. Oh my goodness, guys. I know on your face. Yes.
Speaker 2: On my face. It will be only on my face
Speaker 2: and I don't know why I did not figure that out,
Speaker 2: but I know that I will
Speaker 2: feel some heat when I'm stressed and then yeah, the
Speaker 2: hives just come. I think that's a physiological thing. It's
Speaker 2: your body trying to protect you and get rid of
Speaker 2: the toxins and the negative feelings and it just comes
Speaker 2: out as hives. But how do they take to go away?
Speaker 2: Maybe about 1 to 2 hours for me? Ok. We
Speaker 2: have some stories here actually from Reddit about people pleases
Speaker 2: and you know how they kind of like recovered from that.
Speaker 2: This one
Speaker 2: is from a user called additional guest. She says that
Speaker 2: my people pleasing tendencies made me stay too long in
Speaker 2: roles and jobs that treated me like crap because unfortunately
Speaker 2: my self worth was tied to my job. I've canceled
Speaker 2: dates with my boyfriend and my friends to work and
Speaker 2: yet when I needed my shifts covered, no one would
Speaker 2: help me. I can
Speaker 2: everyone else's burdens. But when I needed support, I was
Speaker 2: left alone and my friendships were often very one sided.
Speaker 2: When I moved just 20 minutes away from my friends.
Speaker 2: People said that I was too far, but I've traveled
Speaker 2: much longer to see my friends. It was only after
Speaker 2: moving to a new state with no one checking in.
Speaker 2: I realized that I was truly on my own.
Speaker 2: And now I've learned my worth in the workplace. I
Speaker 2: quit toxic jobs without feeling too sensitive. I set boundaries
Speaker 2: and I prioritize my health, I even set boundaries with
Speaker 2: a friend who's always in crisis mode, right? Someone who's
Speaker 2: always like I need you, I need you, I need
Speaker 2: you and sometimes, you know, you feel like you want
Speaker 2: to give everything to them. But this person has said now,
Speaker 2: I can say I don't have the bandwidth. Let's reschedule.
Speaker 2: So I fill my own cup first before helping someone else.
Speaker 2: This is like
Speaker 2: on a plane, right? When they say like emergency landing,
Speaker 2: they always tell you save
Speaker 2: your
Speaker 2: own oxygen mask before you put on, even like your
Speaker 2: child put on your own first. I think this reminds
Speaker 2: me of that. I think this is a very real
Speaker 2: journey that many of us go through. It's really great
Speaker 2: that this person has managed to come out of that
Speaker 2: state knowing that that doesn't serve you that that kind
Speaker 2: of life being treated that way. It is not ok.
Speaker 2: I
Speaker 2: I feel like we need to be familiar with our
Speaker 2: own boundaries, our own limits. Because if we've been people pleasing,
Speaker 2: we've probably been people pleasing for a really long time.
Speaker 2: It's not something that just happens overnight. So it's very
Speaker 2: easy for this to become an autopilot response. So you
Speaker 2: have to set that time aside and reflect, truly reflect
Speaker 2: on like the way that person treated me is that
Speaker 2: really ok? And I genuinely ok with that. So we
Speaker 2: need to be in touch
Speaker 2: ourselves and then make a really firm decision on whether
Speaker 2: we want to continue being that way or not.
Speaker 1: I think
Speaker 1: this reminds me of myself a little bit because I
Speaker 1: think I used to people, please a lot more than
Speaker 1: I do now. But I also am, I'm very 0
Speaker 1: to 100. So it's a flip of a switch. Right.
Speaker 1: I used to never know how to leave anything. Like
Speaker 1: I've never left a job. I don't know how to
Speaker 1: leave a relationship, but at the same time
Speaker 1: I'll stick it out. And then when I'm done you
Speaker 1: did
Speaker 2: it kind of like, it explodes in her mind. It
Speaker 2: goes boom and then she's like, yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then so sometimes it's like, I
Speaker 1: don't really find myself going out of my way to
Speaker 1: please someone, but I think it's also very 0 to 100.
Speaker 1: It's either I care or I don't. And it's like
Speaker 1: a
Speaker 2: but you're able to make that switch immediately. Not really,
Speaker 2: I really
Speaker 2: problem. I think the problem is that sometimes you, it's
Speaker 2: not that you go out with your way to please people,
Speaker 2: but you just kind of stick it through even though
Speaker 2: it causes you anguish because you don't want to inconvenience
Speaker 2: someone or you don't want to disappoint someone and that's
Speaker 2: all also part of people pleasing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like this next story here written by a guy online,
Speaker 1: he says oftentimes I end up giving up a girl.
Speaker 1: I had a crush on to friends who were more
Speaker 1: obsessed with them.
Speaker 1: Why? That's so sad, right? But anyway, he says this
Speaker 1: happened constantly when he was younger and he lost out
Speaker 1: on a few girls he really liked and felt a
Speaker 1: connection with. Looking back maybe it was for the best
Speaker 1: because he probably would have ruined those relationships as a
Speaker 1: people pleaser. So he realizes that right. And he says
Speaker 1: he gets his people pleasing tendencies came from his childhood
Speaker 1: trauma being bullied and he doesn't like conflicts. So he
Speaker 1: tried to keep the peace by pleasing others and guess what?
Speaker 1: He's a victim of racism. Like growing up, I think
Speaker 1: he had to face this
Speaker 1: insecurity in his heart. That's why he constantly felt like
Speaker 1: he was not good enough for the girls he felt
Speaker 1: a connection with. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So all the more you try to, you know, prove
Speaker 2: yourself right? I think it's almost like a defense mechanism
Speaker 2: at that point.
Speaker 1: So this really reminds me of wicked the movie when
Speaker 1: alphabet is really like trying to fit in. That's true. OK. Anyways,
Speaker 1: so question to v what are some of the practical
Speaker 1: ways we can disrupt the pattern of people pleasing? So
Speaker 1: here are a few examples. Tell us how you would
Speaker 1: navigate around them. OK. OK. OK.
Speaker 1: So how to say no in a non guilty way.
Speaker 1: Number one is the last minute work request. Your boss
Speaker 1: asked you to stay late to finish a project, but
Speaker 1: you've already got a personal commitment that you cannot reschedule.
Speaker 1: How do you turn out your boss while keeping it professional?
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 2: the first
Speaker 2: thing I would ask is ok. So when is this due?
Speaker 2: Is there urgent deadline tomorrow morning, tomorrow morning? Ok. I'll
Speaker 2: get it done by tomorrow morning, but I will not
Speaker 2: be able to stay tonight as I have a personal commitment.
Speaker 2: I'll make sure it's done by then. I think it depends.
Speaker 2: Like was this really? It was a last minute request
Speaker 2: then it shouldn't have been a last minute request because
Speaker 2: your life doesn't just revolve around your job. If you
Speaker 2: had given the employee ample time and the deadline is
Speaker 2: tomorrow morning and she hasn't finished it, I think your
Speaker 2: employees should be staying late because you've given them ample time.
Speaker 2: But if this is a last minute request, it's like
Speaker 2: my life revolves around your schedule. I would want to
Speaker 2: understand like, what is this project first? But once I
Speaker 2: find out about it and I have to check in
Speaker 2: my own capacity. Do I have the capacity to do that?
Speaker 2: Because for
Speaker 2: me personally, if I have a commitment, I will still
Speaker 2: want to go for my personal commitment. Just that if
Speaker 2: this is really truly important and the circumstances around it
Speaker 2: are that really, this is something that only I can
Speaker 2: do by that point of time, then I'll just find
Speaker 2: a way to get that done to the best of
Speaker 2: my ability. But then I will not forego that thing
Speaker 2: that I was supposed to attend because that's my priority. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you really be very firm and, and you know, just
Speaker 2: like this is my time,
Speaker 1: I have a question
Speaker 1: if you
Speaker 1: tend to phrase it in such a way, like, oh,
Speaker 1: how important or how urgent is it like asking the
Speaker 1: sort of questions to your boss instead of going straight
Speaker 1: to saying like, oh, I've got a commitment and I
Speaker 1: can't do it. But if you try and accommodate, does
Speaker 1: that make you
Speaker 1: a people pleaser?
Speaker 2: I think it depends how you want to look at it. Actually,
Speaker 2: for me, it's I'm finding out facts so that I
Speaker 2: know whether it makes sense or not for me to
Speaker 2: complete it by then. So if he tells me the
Speaker 2: context and I recognize that this is something. Ok, I
Speaker 2: think I can get it done. Just not now.
Speaker 2: You just have to accept that. Not now, but I
Speaker 2: do need to know the information first and if it's
Speaker 2: really something that I can't handle, then I'll be like, sorry,
Speaker 2: I don't think I can do that today. Ok. How
Speaker 2: about this one? Right. So all your friends want you
Speaker 2: to go out to a party, but you are really
Speaker 2: drained and you're really tired and you would rather stay
Speaker 2: at home. How do you kind of like decline this
Speaker 2: offer to go out without making it seem like you
Speaker 2: don't want to not be invited next time. You don't
Speaker 2: want to be like party pooper, you know, but you're
Speaker 2: just really, really tired today. So I'll just be
Speaker 2: quite straightforward with a OK, I'm gonna pass today, but
Speaker 2: please go ahead and have fun. I'll see you guys
Speaker 2: at the next party. So put it in their mind,
Speaker 2: like invite me next time, see you.
Speaker 1: OK? This next one, I think this is very sensitive,
Speaker 1: a friend who has a history of not paying back,
Speaker 1: asked to borrow a significant amount of money. You're uncomfortable
Speaker 1: lending it to him, but you don't want to hurt
Speaker 1: the friendship. What do you say
Speaker 2: this
Speaker 1: actually
Speaker 2: happened to me before? Yeah. So what I told it
Speaker 2: was a girl, I told her that I'm actually not
Speaker 2: very comfort
Speaker 2: with lending out big sums of money. It's not against
Speaker 2: you personally. I'm just personally not very comfortable. But please
Speaker 2: let me know if there's any other thing that I
Speaker 2: can do to help and I'll see if I can
Speaker 2: help there.
Speaker 1: Are you still?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh,
Speaker 1: I love that. I had a conversation with a couple
Speaker 1: of friends about this and one of my friends said,
Speaker 1: like when people ask to borrow money, he would just
Speaker 1: straight up say I don't like getting money involved in friendship.
Speaker 1: So I will not do it. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: but I think it also depends how big the sum is. Like,
Speaker 1: how
Speaker 1: was the sum that
Speaker 2: 20
Speaker 1: 20
Speaker 2: 2020
Speaker 1: 20
Speaker 1: 20 is a big sum? Did she have a legit reason? Like,
Speaker 1: did she tell you
Speaker 2: she did, I asked about it and then she did
Speaker 2: say like some family stuff. How close of a friend?
Speaker 2: Is she your best friend? No, not a best friend,
Speaker 2: but just a friend. But even if it was your
Speaker 2: best friend, I don't think I would because I'm not
Speaker 2: comfortable and I mean, we are close enough so we
Speaker 2: should be able to be honest and candid about what
Speaker 2: we really feel. Well, here's the thing, right. It's
Speaker 2: very hard for me to say no. Like for example,
Speaker 2: it can be anything, it can be a family gathering,
Speaker 2: it can be a work event, it can be a
Speaker 2: social event, right? And I don't want to go. Not
Speaker 2: because I have something else to do but just because
Speaker 2: I want that time to myself, I don't have anything
Speaker 2: else to do. And that's the part that really gets
Speaker 2: me because in my calendar it's empty. I could fill
Speaker 2: it up but it, the way you need to. But
Speaker 2: how do I turn it down without saying like I
Speaker 2: just want to be by myself like I don't want
Speaker 2: to
Speaker 1: but you say you have other work commitments just lie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do that all the time. Sorry.
Speaker 1: V
Speaker 2: what do you think? OK, I think it's actually really
Speaker 2: common this approach honestly to just lie. OK? Say you're
Speaker 2: busy with something else but it's not exactly a lie.
Speaker 2: You are busy with something else which is yourself yourself.
Speaker 2: It's OK. It is something else. It's not nothing. Doing
Speaker 2: nothing is something, you know,
Speaker 1: I agree. And I think sleeping and resting well is
Speaker 1: also part of our profession. I have to put this
Speaker 1: out there
Speaker 1: to all the people who are like, working overtime. I
Speaker 1: know I'm a workaholic myself, but 6 to 8 hours
Speaker 1: of sleep minimally every day. I think it's the impresses me. Honestly.
Speaker 1: I don't know how she gets the amount of sleep in.
Speaker 2: That's true with the amount of things that she, she
Speaker 2: seems to be doing.
Speaker 1: Like I didn't until two am she post and she's
Speaker 1: like happy because I got eight hours of sleep. I like,
Speaker 1: yeah, I was like, how well I had to cancel
Speaker 1: my gym appointment this morning. Never happened in the past
Speaker 1: two years because I was drinking till too late last
Speaker 1: night and I just didn't think I would show up
Speaker 1: for the podcast in a good state if I had
Speaker 1: gone for the gym appointment. So I put it off
Speaker 1: till next week and I decided to sleep in got
Speaker 1: seven hours of rest and here I am all energized.
Speaker 2: I love that some. You lose some. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess
Speaker 2: so when you see your patients, do you call them patients,
Speaker 2: clients
Speaker 2: when you see your clients? Right? What would the remedy
Speaker 2: be like? What kind of action plan would you put
Speaker 2: them on to kind of like heal from being a
Speaker 2: people pleaser. Usually it's like I would encourage journaling. I
Speaker 2: typically leave an assignment at the end which involves reflection,
Speaker 2: diving deep to understand yourself. I would also recommend things
Speaker 2: like meditation even though it may not be a habit
Speaker 2: for many people. But there's a lot of benefits that
Speaker 2: can come from meditation and like just go take a walk.
Speaker 2: Has been one of my assignments
Speaker 2: before walking in nature, just being with yourself at peace.
Speaker 2: How does that help with the people pleasing side of things?
Speaker 2: Because people pleaser tend to be quite on the anxious
Speaker 2: side because it makes them stress. I'm not able to
Speaker 2: please someone. What if I do this and then that's
Speaker 2: going to happen? What da da da da. So your
Speaker 2: mind is very hectic. It's like a highway going on.
Speaker 2: So you do need to slow down. So as a
Speaker 2: first step, I would encourage you to do things that
Speaker 2: will help your mind slow down. Sound healing honestly
Speaker 2: is one of the ways as well because you're slowing
Speaker 2: the brain waves down. There's like calmness, a sense of
Speaker 2: calm that washes over you and you can get this
Speaker 2: in nature as well, but sound does it in a
Speaker 2: bit more like a layered manner. But you can for
Speaker 2: more easily attainable things. It will be just journaling or
Speaker 2: going to a nice quiet spot hanging around in nature.
Speaker 1: What are some questions people can ask themselves to, to
Speaker 1: take a step
Speaker 1: back and reflect
Speaker 2: one of the things would be, what is my trigger?
Speaker 2: Can you have an example of that?
Speaker 2: The trigger be like for example, maybe the moment a
Speaker 2: boss says like you need to do this for me.
Speaker 2: So every time he hears, you need to do this
Speaker 2: for me, then he might get triggered and then he
Speaker 2: will be like, OK, now I need to everything and
Speaker 2: do that. So after that, it would be to ask yourself,
Speaker 2: what are you feeling? Why am I feeling that way?
Speaker 2: Is it true or is it just a belief that
Speaker 2: I have? Right. So when you question your own beliefs,
Speaker 2: it will help in that regulation and you
Speaker 2: will know or you might know next time if you
Speaker 2: wanna switch a different route, like, do you really want
Speaker 2: to continue that autopilot thing? Right. Oh Boss tells me
Speaker 2: to do this and then I will go and do
Speaker 2: it right away or do you want to be like,
Speaker 2: that's not what I'm thinking right now. I'm actually feeling
Speaker 2: this is unfair. I'm actually really tired. I think someone
Speaker 2: else can do this today and you would tell your
Speaker 2: boss that no. And then like manage it. But then
Speaker 2: of course, I mean, you might have some colleagues around
Speaker 2: you that are genuinely cool with you and then like,
Speaker 2: maybe can tell them like, ok,
Speaker 2: I'm really having a lot on my plate right now.
Speaker 2: Do you think you can help me with this? A
Speaker 2: lot of it is encouraging authenticity. But if you're honest
Speaker 2: with yourself, then you can be more honest with others
Speaker 2: as well. But what if nobody can help you? If
Speaker 2: nobody can help you, you have to talk to your boss,
Speaker 2: you have to have that talk. I know it's scary.
Speaker 2: It's intimidating. But personally, like I've had to do that
Speaker 2: as well. I used to be a police officer actually.
Speaker 2: You many things now. Yeah. So it was
Speaker 2: very necessary for me at a certain point to manage
Speaker 2: his expectations and say sir, I'm struggling. Oh my God. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you have to I know like we need to keep
Speaker 2: up this certain image and I be like we're on
Speaker 2: the ball, we have to do this, we have to
Speaker 2: do it and we do, it's really, really important work.
Speaker 2: But if you are not ok, the work is not
Speaker 2: gonna be ok either. And you need to spare a
Speaker 2: thought for yourself and the people involved. Very fair, very fair.
Speaker 2: And would you say you're a reformed people pleaser? Ok.
Speaker 2: So I want to clear
Speaker 2: by that there is actually no such thing as a
Speaker 2: reformed and ex people pleaser. You're either a recovering people
Speaker 2: pleaser or you were never a people pleaser at all
Speaker 2: because recovering because people pleasing is like an addiction. It's
Speaker 2: like you're addicted to drugs. There's no cure for that.
Speaker 2: There's only ways to manage it and you just get
Speaker 2: better at managing over time. But there's always that risk
Speaker 2: of relapse. No,
Speaker 1: I feel like I should count the number of times
Speaker 1: to say sorry every day from now on. I have
Speaker 1: a question.
Speaker 1: A lot of people pleasing comes from trying to take
Speaker 1: care of somebody else's feelings. How do you still do
Speaker 1: that without sacrificing yourself because you don't want someone else
Speaker 1: to feel bad as well. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: But
Speaker 2: sometimes you just have to feel bad. You need to
Speaker 2: know your own boundaries and your own limits. Actually, when
Speaker 2: you're truthful with what you're really ok with and what
Speaker 2: you're not, you'll be able to find some sort of
Speaker 2: a sweet spot. But there is give and take and
Speaker 2: that's why reflection is so important and
Speaker 2: quieting your mind and really thinking like sometimes you're moving
Speaker 2: so fast throughout the day, you're just doing things without
Speaker 2: realizing you're not ok with that. I hear you. So
Speaker 2: as a recovering people, pleaser, how has setting boundaries? Like,
Speaker 2: how have you benefited from really working on that part
Speaker 2: of your life? I'm less drained actually, because I used
Speaker 2: to feel really drained at the end of the day.
Speaker 2: And sometimes I even build resentment towards the people that
Speaker 2: I've helped in
Speaker 2: certain way. Oh, my
Speaker 1: gosh, all the time. Hey, ok. So let's drain.
Speaker 2: So that's actually the key thing. Let's drain. And I
Speaker 2: think my relationships are more authentic right now, like with
Speaker 2: my friends and family and my partner. So we're just
Speaker 2: more honest with each other. When I'm more honest, they
Speaker 2: feel more comfortable being honest as well about the things
Speaker 2: that they might not actually be ok with, then everything
Speaker 2: feels more real.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a good point. One thing I realized is that when
Speaker 1: you have so much on your plate
Speaker 1: and you take something else on, even if this something
Speaker 1: else is something that you're truly passionate about, you end
Speaker 1: up hating it because you can't perform to the best
Speaker 1: of ability. You are not able to enjoy it and
Speaker 2: then you blame yourself. And then it's like,
Speaker 1: oh
Speaker 2: my
Speaker 1: God. And then the thing doesn't turn out well and
Speaker 1: everything is just a mess. I have a very good friend.
Speaker 1: She says sorry, like every single time I see her,
Speaker 1: even if it like I asked her the friend, no,
Speaker 1: she's worse than me. I'm telling you. That's bad. Ok?
Speaker 1: Every time I ask her, ok? Are you free next
Speaker 1: Wednesday for dinner? Oh, no, so sorry, I cannot make
Speaker 1: it because I have to go for this that I, oh,
Speaker 1: it's OK. How about Friday? Oh no, so sorry, I
Speaker 1: can't do this. You also say sorry, what's wrong with that?
Speaker 1: To me? I feel like you don't have to say sorry,
Speaker 1: just tell me you can't make it. And then we reschedule, right?
Speaker 1: Because I feel like saying sorry puts her in a,
Speaker 1: a more inferior position that I don't want to see
Speaker 1: her in because she's a very good friend of mine. Right.
Speaker 1: And she feels inferior. Why? Feel inferior? It's just a meeting,
Speaker 1: it's just a meet up for dinner. Right. Just reschedule.
Speaker 1: And at the same time I'm doing like this self
Speaker 1: reflection of myself. Hey, am I doing that? Actually? To
Speaker 1: a certain extent.
Speaker 2: Yes. Sometimes I reschedule so many times until I feel
Speaker 2: very bad. I've been trying to meet this friend, like
Speaker 2: since before she went on maternity leave, she just gave
Speaker 2: up
Speaker 2: today. I haven't met her and she was like, you
Speaker 2: want to come to the hospital? I was like, shit,
Speaker 2: I really cannot. And I'm like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I feel
Speaker 2: so
Speaker 1: bad. Ok? Never mind 100 days party, go to her house.
Speaker 1: Maybe
Speaker 2: I'll see her when the kid is like five years
Speaker 2: old at this point at some point though, at some point,
Speaker 2: at some point. But I, I really, really value today's conversation.
Speaker 2: It made me realize we say sorry a lot. Yes.
Speaker 2: But that's not
Speaker 2: the only thing that you know affects you when you
Speaker 2: have people pleasing tendencies. I think we're all recovering people pleases.
Speaker 1: Yeah. For sure. Any last words you want to say
Speaker 1: to our listeners and viewers out there who are
Speaker 1: people pleases?
Speaker 2: You are enough in your being, not in your doing
Speaker 2: but called human beings for a reason. You are enough
Speaker 2: just by being you.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank
Speaker 1: you. I'm gonna tell everyone that from now on every
Speaker 1: time I do want to do something,
Speaker 1: we have no problem with that out of all of us.
Speaker 1: You have no problem with saying I just want to
Speaker 1: be and
Speaker 1: well, I learned so much from this episode. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being with us today. If you enjoyed
Speaker 1: today's episode, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: its clarity.co. That's right. You can listen to us on
Speaker 1: Spotify Apple Podcast. Me. Listen, turn on your
Speaker 2: notification. Don't feel sorry if you don't watch us on youtube.
Speaker 2: It's ok. We spent a long time setting up the set.
Speaker 2: I don't want to put in a lot of effort
Speaker 2: into it, but don't we see you guys?
Speaker 2: Hi.